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Morning Constitutional

There was a bit of a discussion yesterday about the public accomodations and concessions being given to Muslims around the nation, with our own Kim, Glenn of Instapundit, and Bryan of Hot Air all chiming in on this editorial.

Me? I had my say on it over a year ago.

But I would like to suggest that this beginning of a backlash is long overdue. We, as a society, need to start being a tad more heavy-handed.

The First Amendment is quite clear: the government can not and will not endorse any one religion, nor -- within reason -- interfere with any. (When there is a conflict between the actions of a religion and the law, the law prevails -- hence the bans on polygamy, restrictions on animal sacrifice, and enforcement of age of consent to marriage laws, just to name three.) The ACLU has succeeded wonderfully at laying the groundwork for the battle against these submissions to Islamist demands: we have literally volumes of precedent saying that public funds and resources shall not be used to subsidize or promulgate any single faith -- or even faith itself.

What is happening right now is a very bad thing. We are responding to threats and demands by making concessions -- and, as has been proven repeatedly throughout history, giving in to such demands never works well. "Once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane."

Factor in the Islamist tradition of "once some place or some thing is Islamic, it is Islamic forever," and you've got a recipe for disaster down the road. Look up Al-Andalus some time. Or look at Israel -- Jewish for a very long time, until the Romans kicked them out; conquered by Islam and fought over by the Muslims and Christians; finally resettled by the Jews. They are so desperate to once again repossess this island of democracy and freedom that they frantically try to re-write history to eradicate any evidence that it ever was Jewish, and proclaim Jerusalem "the third holiest site in Islam" despite its not appearing even once in the Koran.

Unless something is done, these "concessions" to Muslims on campuses and other places will eventually become permanent -- and exclusive. I kept reading the accounts of these "meditation areas" looking for some Muslim giving visitors some grief when they did not remove their shoes or sexually segregate themselves upon entering -- some young Christian couple choosing to pray together, for example. I didn't see it, but I can see it happening.

And if you're honest, so can you.

The message needs to be sent, loud and clear: America will tolerate religions, but it will not adapt to them. The faiths need to adapt to America. The Constitution is our "Holy Book", our highest law. If you want to change it, that's fine -- there's a very clear process that has been use more than two dozen times.

But you will NOT supplant it.

(Quotation marks around "Holy Book" added per Rovin's suggestion below. I'm kicking myself for not putting them there in the first place. Thanks, Rovin.)


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Comments (23)

This is what happens when y... (Below threshold)

This is what happens when you combine liberal multicultural dogma (America isn't so special, we have no right to insist that others adapt to America) and the religious right's insistence that not only it is no big deal for the state to accomodate religion, that the state has to do so.

As a result, both sides now have no standing to complain, liberals because they can't and won't come out and say that what the Muslims are demanding is wrong (because to do so is an arrow through the heart of tolerance) and the right because they can't admit that there's a limit to how much religion can be foisted on a reluctant public (because doing so would mean we'd never ever get to hear a prayer at high school graduations).

As much as I don't like the end result, it is somewhat satisfying to see the irony of both liberals and conservatives being hoisted on their own petards.....

The first commenter of the ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

The first commenter of the morning and the falsehoods fly. Religious right does not have any complicity in this. Christians and Jews do not tell people to adopt our views or die. Christians or Jews do not tell other religions they are pigs. Christians ask for prayer in school, which all religions practice. There are no atheist children. They are just blank slates so encouragement and edification would be a good thing. So, don't dare to compare what Christians ask for and what Islam dictates. ww

There are no atheist ch... (Below threshold)
marc:

There are no atheist children. They are just blank slates so encouragement and edification would be a good thing.

Yeah, and any chalk that scribbles on that "blank slate" should be at home not in a school supported by public funds.

Jay,You are correct ... (Below threshold)
Allen:

Jay,
You are correct about the ACLU laying the groundwork about praying in school. And when they were doing that, who was screaming the loudest about how liberal the ACLU was?

The ACLU has done some good, some bad, but overall they sure hit this one correct. If these Muslims don't like the way this country is run, get the hell out of here. Next thing you know the Muslims will want all female students to dress according to the Muslim way. I think that will be when the s--t hits the fan and the Muslim will learn the hard way what happens when the American people get mad.

The Constitution i... (Below threshold)
Rovin:
The Constitution is our Holy Book, our highest law.

With all due respect Jay, you may be using the word "our" a little too liberally when combining the Constitution and Holy Book in one sentence.

Perhaps if you had put Holy Book in quotes, your premise would be better understood. To many christian conservatives, the constitution is not "our" highest law. While the bible (our holy book) tell us to respect the laws of man, the scriptures also tells us (christians) that Gods laws supercede those of man when they conflict.

Those who feel threatened by christianity in the US will have to show me where the christian faith has demanded to have concessions in airports (and other public venues) when in fact over the past twenty years the secular progressives have deminished most of the christian doctrine in public venues, while concessions to other religions are given priority in the name of diversity and tolerance.

No where in this comment do I suggest that if you do not accept the teachings of Jesus Christ there will be "hell" to pay, or demands to be honored in stone, (or in the form of a law) that commands you to accept the Christian doctrine. Free "will" to choose is on the individual.

I do agree that it is a slippery slope when any religious entitity is allowed to impose their faith (and practises) in public venues or even where the public enters into private business, (prayer rugs in Starbucks for example).

While our founders where inspired by the teachings of God, they also saw the importance of keeping religion in check when forming the constitution.

Rovin,"importance ... (Below threshold)
U.P. Man:

Rovin,

"importance of keeping religion in check" I would change that to "importance of having religion separate from the government to provide the moral base for the government"

When anybody has used religion to run the government things go bad.

When anybody has used the government to run the religion things go bad.

And the absense of religion outside of the government things go bad.

"importance of kee... (Below threshold)
Rovin:
"importance of keeping religion in check" I would change that to "importance of having religion separate from the government to provide the moral base for the government"
......U.P. Man

Agreed. I was simplifying cause my coffee pot was screaming to "come and get it".

Thanks.

Let's look at how an Islami... (Below threshold)
D.Doré:

Let's look at how an Islamic country treats citizens of different faiths:

Christians have 10 Days to Convert to Islam in Pakistan
Christians in Charsadda, a town in North-West Frontier Province in Pakistan, have been warned that if they do not convert to Islam by 17 May they will face "dire consequences and bomb explosions".

Here's the story.

Discourses on Davila.... (Below threshold)
John Adams:

Discourses on Davila.
-----------------

While both Muslims and Evan... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

While both Muslims and Evangelical Christians try to convert others to their religious beliefs, the number of beheadings, bombings, tortures and various other forms of mayhem by Christians has been waaaaaaaay down for about, well, NINE HUNDRED YEARS!! [granting that a lot of excesses took place during the Cursades]

There is EXACTLY ONE "religion" on Earth right now that has a "believe or DIE" philosophy...yup, it is the moronically nicknamed: Religion of Peace (aka, Islam).

If we appease them enough, however, they may kill us LAST...and use a sharp blade so our death is quick! Compassionate, eh?

The crusades were a Europea... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

The crusades were a European response to attacks by the Islamic East. Whereas Christians are willing to coexist with Islam, Islam is not willing to coexist with any other religion. They need to be conquered and converted. To anything. Preferable Hinduism as they respect all life.

The message needs to be ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

The message needs to be sent, loud and clear: America will tolerate religions, but it will not adapt to them. The faiths need to adapt to America. The Constitution is our "Holy Book", our highest law. If you want to change it, that's fine -- there's a very clear process that has been use more than two dozen times.

Hear, hear!

The crusades were a Euro... (Below threshold)
mantis:

The crusades were a European response to attacks by the Islamic East. Whereas Christians are willing to coexist with Islam, Islam is not willing to coexist with any other religion.

I find it sadly amusing that so many Christians are willing to believe this. The Jews in Europe were the first to be slaughtered in the Crusades, and that had nothing to do with Islam. When the crusaders took Jerusalem, the Jews fought alongside the Arabs against the invaders, and when Jerusalem fell, the Jews were burned alive inside their temples.

Where do you think most Jews lived for hundreds of years after the Crusades, after being systematically expelled from European lands (or just summarily executed)? They lived in Muslim lands, because the persecution and death they received from Christians was way worse than paying a tax to Muslims. Where death and torment was their fate under the hands of Christians, Jewish culture thrived in Muslim lands.

Times change. Stupid, as Zelsdorf demonstrates, is eternal.

Actually the crusade would ... (Below threshold)
U.P. Man:

Actually the crusade would be an example of government using religion and the inquisition an example of religion using government.

Neither work.

It's so nice when we can AL... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

It's so nice when we can ALL (Mantis included) agree on ONE THING:
the brutal excesses of the Crusades were a lonnnnng f**king time ago!

The brutal excesses of Islam are, well, CURRENT EVENTS! Literally not a day, and rarely an HOUR goes by without a fresh example of Islamic brutality is reported somewhere in the world!

They are not trying to win the "hearts & minds"...just the FEAR of people everywhere.

If you slur and slander the Mormons/Catholics/Jews/Shintoists/Buddhists/Methodists/etc... they may very well get made at you.

That's it.

If you tell the TRUTH about the Islamists, they will come after you and your family...and they will torture and kill you.

Reality.

It's so nice when we can... (Below threshold)
mantis:

It's so nice when we can ALL (Mantis included) agree on ONE THING: the brutal excesses of the Crusades were a lonnnnng f**king time ago!

We can surely agree on this.

The brutal excesses of Islam are, well, CURRENT EVENTS! Literally not a day, and rarely an HOUR goes by without a fresh example of Islamic brutality is reported somewhere in the world!

Indeed, a fucking disgrace. I remember getting into spirited, and sometimes nasty, discussions with a Kuwaiti coworker over such things as honor killings, subjugation of women, etc. He defended everything as "cultural," I condemned it as barbaric. This was in the mid-90s. Things have only gotten worse.

If you tell the TRUTH about the Islamists, they will come after you and your family...and they will torture and kill you.

I have no fear in telling the truth about Islamist scum. Of course, I'm fortunate enough to live here...

Oh, btw Justrand, your hist... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Oh, btw Justrand, your history is a bit inaccurate. You push it back to far, but suffice it to say that you are correct about it being a long time ago.

I find it sadly amusing ... (Below threshold)
Taltos:

I find it sadly amusing that so many Christians are willing to believe this. The Jews in Europe were the first to be slaughtered in the Crusades, and that had nothing to do with Islam. When the crusaders took Jerusalem, the Jews fought alongside the Arabs against the invaders, and when Jerusalem fell, the Jews were burned alive inside their temples.

They likely believe it because it's true. The first crusade was spawned as a response to the moorish invasions of the Iberian peninsula and Seljuk(turks) incursions into Byzantium. The wholesale slaughtering of jews in Europe didn't occur until the armies returned home and was discurouaged by much of the chruch. And it wasn't just the jews, it was everyone who was considered heretic. The jews, meaning the people as a whole, didn't fight alongside the muslims at jerusalem, the jews that lived in the city did. Most likely because the crusaders were killing everybody in sight.

Where do you think most Jews lived for hundreds of years after the Crusades, after being systematically expelled from European lands (or just summarily executed)?

Many of them still lived in Eastern Europe and Asia actually.

Sorry to keep repeating mys... (Below threshold)
RG:

Sorry to keep repeating myself folks, but take it from someone who has lived 40 years with Muslims - in Dearborn, Michigan (the "capital" of Islam USA) - there is no such thing as "Islamist". That's a weasel word made up to distinguish between "nice" and "bad" muslims. There is only one Islam and only one kind of muslim. If you are a follower of the prophet, you believe in a very rigid code of conduct, spirituality and yes, political ideology, for Islam is to a great part, political.

If Western nations continue to pander to the religious/cultural desires of muslims, they will likely lose their sovereignty before too long.

Prayer rooms, halal meals, holidays (every other week it seems), hijabs and foot washing sinks....all coming to your hometown thanks to uncontrolled immigration and a reluctance to believe in ourselves, our culture, our values, our traditions.

They likely believe it b... (Below threshold)
mantis:

They likely believe it because it's true.

So the Christians around the time of the Crusades were just dandy with other religions, whereas the Muslims wouldn't tolerate them? Get real.

The first crusade was spawned as a response to the moorish invasions of the Iberian peninsula and Seljuk(turks) incursions into Byzantium.

It's a bit more complicated than that, but I wasn't disputing the fact that the Turks were expansionist. Btw the Moors took Spain over 350 years prior to the first crusade.

As a side note, lets not forget the words of Pope Urban II in ordering the crusade: Deus vult! Sound familiar?

The wholesale slaughtering of jews in Europe didn't occur until the armies returned home and was discurouaged by much of the chruch.

You're incorrect about the slaughter beginning after the armies returned home. German Christians didn't even bother going towards Jerusalem; they marched in the opposite direction and started killing Jews. It is true that some parts of the church did not play along and even protected many Jews, but that didn't last too long. More and more churches taught that all "enemies of Christ" (Jews and Muslims) needed to be wiped out. For those Christians who wanted in on the action but couldn't make the journey to the Middle East, the Jews were the only semites available.

The jews, meaning the people as a whole, didn't fight alongside the muslims at jerusalem, the jews that lived in the city did.

I didn't mean all Jews, I meant the ones being attacked in Jerusalem. In any case, what's your point?

Many of them still lived in Eastern Europe and Asia actually.

Excuse me, they left Christian European lands. The areas in Eastern Europe and Asia they lived in were Muslim lands. The Ottomans, you may recall, rescued the Jews (and fellow Muslims) from Spain during the Inquisition. Christians, historically, have been by far the largest threat to the Jews, at least until the 20th century.

German Christians didn't... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

German Christians didn't even bother going towards Jerusalem; they marched in the opposite direction and started killing Jews.

Good Lord, what is it with the Germans and Jews anyway?

Minneapolis Community and Technical College's plan to install a washing basin where Muslim students can ritually wash their feet pre-prayer

Makes a mighty fine urinal for drunken partygoers as well...

You know, you can buy your own damn basin at Walmart for about 3 bucks. Give it a shot.

But seriously, since these ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

But seriously, since these basins are being installed, does that mean the Jews will be getting their spanking brand new mikvah shortly?

I mean, it's a ritural washing thing here too.

Well?

(crickets)


Yeah, thought so.

Christians, historically... (Below threshold)

Christians, historically, have been by far the largest threat to the Jews, at least until the 20th century.

A fact that has never made sense to me. Persecuting the Jews is not the best way to get on God's good side, so to speak. It's one of the great shames of Christian history in my book.




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