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Red with envy

Sheesh. I barely generate a hate letter every couple of months or so. I'm positively jealous that Wizbanger Guest Poster Emeritus Rob Port has garnered this level of attention.

Congrats, Rob. As the old saying goes, "when you start catching flak, you know you're over the target."


Comments (24)

I grew up in South Florida ... (Below threshold)

I grew up in South Florida spending a significant part of those years living one block from the demarcation line separating our neighborhood from the Seminole Indian Reservation. I went to school with and played with their kids. I went to their homes and saw the lack of pride many had in simply keeping their homes clean, however poor they may have been. We were poor too, but our house was clean and our yard was not strewn with trash. And it was not the fathers in our neighborhood who hung out behind the 7-11 swilling Thunderbird wine from a paper bag.

All in all though, I have fond memories of growing up there. I got my very first job at the reservation at 13 making beaded necklaces for their gift shops. (behind a closed curtain of course. Couldn't let the tourists see that a skinny, freckled red-headed kid made that "authentic" indian necklace :) )

The writer, Rob Port is right about the conditions in some of the reservations. But it's no different than the conditions of some neighborhoods in other areas which are comprised largely of other races or nationalities. And yes, some of them "white".

Every "group" has it's ne'er-do-wells. But using or even allowing special laws, written or unwritten, to expel others who might draw attention to it is to deny the problem. And for a government to give special considerations to one over another is not indicative of a society which boasts equality.

It is remarkable to me the ... (Below threshold)
kim:

It is remarkable to me the unconscious authoritarianism laced in much leftist speech these days. It is truly horrifying. I was reading a board about Chavez in which some Bozo defending 'rule by decree' was being posessed and annexed by a clear thinker about state rule.

Who lives by the million Kalishnikovs, dies by the million Kalishnikov's.
========================================

Given the long history of l... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Given the long history of life on the reservation I believe that in many ways it reflects the will of the people who live there. Sure, they would like more money, but not to the point of doing what it takes to earn it. Having a messy home or yard is just a different standard unless it gets to the point of being a health issue. There seems to be a lot more freedom to live and let live on reservations. I understand why they banned some nosy white guy who doesn't understand or respect people's right to live as they choose. As a conservative blogger, Rob should stop acting like a liberal.

The red man's version of th... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

The red man's version of the Fairness Doctrine.

Mac Lorry,

"Having a messy home or yard is just a different standard..."

I hope you don't mean this in the multicultural sense of "no better or worse, just different." True, it is a different standard but it is not a neutral standard. Dirty and unkempt is inferior to clean and well kept, drunk is inferior to sober, ignorance is inferior to knowledge. If the Native American wants to go back to life without the wheel, that is ok with me but don't pretend that it is a noble cultural endeavor.

Mac Lorry, imagine this. Yo... (Below threshold)
BlacquesJacquesShellacques:

Mac Lorry, imagine this. You and your family and friends, your whole community are patronized for hundreds of years. You get money for nothing. If your home is a wreck, they build you a new one.

If your home is bright and sparkling clean and painted and well tended...your occupancy right is terminated. Got to share the wealth, rotate occupancies through all the group. How odd, the chief's nephew winds up in the house you just painted.

How much ambition will you have?

The treaty/reserve system is a socialist fraud designed to keep BIA workers in good jobs, "Tribal Elders" in control and wealthy and the mass of ordinary Indians dispirited and downtrodden by those two classes of leeches.

The mess on the reserves is indeed whitey's fault, but only because we haven't had the courage to say: "It's over".

Messy ain't necessarily dir... (Below threshold)
kim:

Messy ain't necessarily dirty, and some of the finest reasoning is done at the messiest desks.
==============

I'd like to write an angry ... (Below threshold)

I'd like to write an angry hate email. BUT two things prevent me both of equal power to reatrain my animailstic impulse. 1) its not my nature to argue with idiots. They don't care and won't change their positio. 2) you're not an idiot. I haven't caught you being an idiot. I haven't been looking that hard, but do visit frequently. Mostly I continue to be amazed at the lucid energetic reporting you provide... Despie being from that Far Noath part of thr world little known for lucid rational restraint in recent times.

Thanks for the little grey cells fodder.

kim,You should see... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

kim,

You should see my desk. lol. It is an embarrassment. I should be organizing instead of typing. While it is true that my desk does not inhibit reasoning, it sure makes it hard to find what I'm looking for. I function in spite of it, not because of it and I always feel better after I break down and clean it. Even I concede that organized is better than messy. I usually chalk it up to priorities. It seems that I always have something more important to do...

Their action are enough to ... (Below threshold)

Their action are enough to warm the heart of any dictator...

The reservations are Americ... (Below threshold)
Paul Hamilton:

The reservations are America's own apartheid. The native people certainly didn't want to be exiled there so it's not exactly surprising that they had little respect for the place. And the reservation system is responsible for the generational poverty which is so common there as the result of bad education and just about no job opportunities.

All of that said, there's no excuse to ban someone just because you don't like what they said, but complaining alone isn't the solution.

Jerff,Dir... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Jerff,

Dirty and unkempt is inferior to clean and well kept, drunk is inferior to sober, ignorance is inferior to knowledge.

First lets dispose of the straw men of drunk vs. sober, and ignorance vs. knowledge. You can be sober and knowledgeable and messy at the same time. While knowledge is different than intelligence they are often linked and some of the most intelligent people are the messiest, well at least they would be if not for a spouse or maid to clean up after them.

I hope you don't mean this in the multicultural sense of "no better or worse, just different."

But of course I'm not talking about rotting organic matter unless it's a compost pile, and I'm not talking about sewage unless it's a manure pile. Both of those are needed to grow all that organic food so many are willing to pay extra for, but they are not beautiful to look at.

Some people find nature beautiful and nature is messy. If you have ever been in the back country you know what I mean. Nature just lets animals dump and die wherever they like and doesn't mow the grass, rake the leaves or even dispose of deadfalls other than to let them rot away. Grass and brush grow up around and through all this trash and somehow create a healthy environment.

Yes many city folks find fresh mowed grass beautiful especially if it's only grass, but make no mistake, such a lawn is little different ecologically than a paved lot. At least a paved lot is not adding fertilizer and pesticides into the ground water.

People who live most their lives in artificial environments (towns and cities) find beauty in artificial things and artificially maintained plants. People who live closer to nature find beauty in the verity of nature and try to live with nature rather then maintain nature. So someone on the reservation has their grandfather's car in their front lawn with grass and brush growing up around and through it. You may think pesticide soaked 2 inch grass is intrinsically superior, but being a farm boy, I disagree.

Being a conservative I feel people have the right to fail to whatever degree they are willing to live with the consequences. Yes liberals steal from me to limit the consequences such people pay, but I blame the liberals for that. When self-identified conservatives start acting like liberals than I'm going to call them on it.

Jerff,Dir... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Jerff,

Dirty and unkempt is inferior to clean and well kept, drunk is inferior to sober, ignorance is inferior to knowledge.

First lets dispose of the straw men of drunk vs. sober, and ignorance vs. knowledge. You can be sober and knowledgeable and messy at the same time. While knowledge is different than intelligence they are often linked and some of the most intelligent people are the messiest, well at least they would be if not for a spouse or maid to clean up after them.

I hope you don't mean this in the multicultural sense of "no better or worse, just different."

But of course I'm not talking about rotting organic matter unless it's a compost pile, and I'm not talking about sewage unless it's a manure pile. Both of those are needed to grow all that organic food so many are willing to pay extra for, but they are not beautiful to look at.

Some people find nature beautiful and nature is messy. If you have ever been in the back country you know what I mean. Nature just lets animals dump and die wherever they like and doesn't mow the grass, rake the leaves or even dispose of deadfalls other than to let them rot away. Grass and brush grow up around and through all this trash and somehow create a healthy environment.

Yes many city folks find fresh mowed grass beautiful especially if it's only grass, but make no mistake, such a lawn is little different ecologically than a paved lot. At least a paved lot is not adding fertilizer and pesticides into the ground water.

People who live most their lives in artificial environments (towns and cities) find beauty in artificial things and artificially maintained plants. People who live closer to nature find beauty in the verity of nature and try to live with nature rather then maintain nature. So someone on the reservation has their grandfather's car in their front lawn with grass and brush growing up around and through it. You may think pesticide soaked 2 inch grass is intrinsically superior, but being a farm boy, I disagree.

Being a conservative I feel people have the right to fail to whatever degree they are willing to live with the consequences. Yes liberals steal from me to limit the consequences such people pay, but I blame the liberals for that. When self-identified conservatives start acting like liberals than I'm going to call them on it.

Sorry about the double post... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Sorry about the double post. Apparently there's a posting delay today

Mac Lorry, imagine... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Mac Lorry, imagine this. You and your family and friends, your whole community are patronized for hundreds of years. You get money for nothing. If your home is a wreck, they build you a new one.

It seems the British royalty handles this situation quite well. You can't be talking about Native Americans because they have this idea that immigrants own them much more in exchange for the land.

If your home is bright and sparkling clean and painted and well tended...your occupancy right is terminated. Got to share the wealth, rotate occupancies through all the group. How odd, the chief's nephew winds up in the house you just painted.

If that's the way it works live with it or leave. There are no walls around the reservation and many living on reservations have relatives who have already moved on.

The treaty/reserve system is a socialist fraud designed to keep BIA workers in good jobs, "Tribal Elders" in control and wealthy and the mass of ordinary Indians dispirited and downtrodden by those two classes of leeches.

And how is this different than other parts of the government?

The mess on the reserves is indeed whitey's fault, but only because we haven't had the courage to say: "It's over".

There's a "whitey" on most reservations. They stay in power through favors, fear and intimidation. Beat them at their own game, leave, or live with it.

Mac Lorry, what you say is ... (Below threshold)
BlacquesJacquesShellacques:

Mac Lorry, what you say is the soft prejudice of low expectations.

I have driven through, or walked through, many Indian reservations and they are mostly dangerous and unhealthy shit-holes. Smashed windows, moldy drywall, rotted joists, upside down cars with broken glass and jagged metal sticking into kids' play areas. These are not the charming chaos of nature. You may see an animal corpse in nature but you do not see 50 in a half acre yard. Animal corpses break down in weeks unlike glass and metal.

Have a look at http://www.americanindianchildren.org/Indian_Life.html

-Unemployment stays around 50% on most reservations; rising as high as 90% in some areas.
-American Indians have the lowest life expectancy of any population in this hemisphere, with the exception of the Haitians.
-Suicides are 70% higher on the Reservations than the rest of the United States, accounting for 17% of all deaths.

If what the Indians themselves say is true the reservations are a very bad environment.

So who is at fault. It is NOT the Indians generally. It is their dishonest and greedy 'leaders' and our dishonest and greedy bureaucracy and our gutless leaders.

I like the apartheid comment. End it now.

Sorry about the posting del... (Below threshold)

Sorry about the posting delay. It's gone now. I was trying to troubleshoot a delay in comments posting.

The delay I was trying to f... (Below threshold)

The delay I was trying to fix still exists, so I guess it's back to square one...

BjS,<bl... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

BjS,

upside down cars with broken glass and jagged metal sticking into kids' play areas.

That sounds like my Uncle's junkyard. Lots of us kids went there to explorer, play, and wreck stuff. Nothing was so boring growing up as an empty well maintained yard. The adults would get on our case for leaving skid marks or breaking branches. Maybe the kids living on the reservation don't have the same opinion about their environment as you do.

I like the apartheid comment. End it now.

So you think the solution is to just kick everyone off the reservation. As I have stated, there are no walls keeping people on the reservation. That makes it apparent that at least the adults chosen to live in the conditions you find so abhorrent rather than face the world off the reservation. Who are you to decide what's best of other people, unless of course you're a liberal and it's really your own conscience you're trying to appease.

I'm all for giving people opportunity to get out of poverty and better their lives, but that has been done already for most of the adults on reservations. The ones that made use of those opportunities have already left. We have the same problem in the dominate culture, but we call them homeless.

When it comes to indians, a... (Below threshold)
Taltos:

When it comes to indians, all I know is that the Oneidas are damned annoying.

I don't understand the thou... (Below threshold)
Jon Swales:

I don't understand the though process of people living on the reservation. Let's see, I can either get an education, find a job and make something out of my life in the land of opportunity, or I can sit here on this crappy reservation, get drunk and live in squalor amidst the weathiest nation on the planet.
Sure makes a lot of sense to me.
You know your society is broken when illegals from Mexico can assimilate and earn money faster than the people native to the land.

McSlurry :)Sorry, ... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

McSlurry :)

Sorry, but your post reads like a bunch of abstract gobbledygook. You can talk about the charming beauty of disarray all you like. I live in the South. I have lived and worked on farms, been dirt poor, swam in the creek, used outhouses, and primed wells to get water. I have seen country poverty and city poverty. It does not matter where you live, - city slums or Appalachian dump - if you leave junk cars and trash in your yard and let weeds grow up everywhere it is indicative of a lack of motivation, self-respect, and respect for your community. People should be encouraged - not forced - to do better. Pointing out that people can and should do better is hardly "acting liberal."

Jeff,if y... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Jeff,

if you leave junk cars and trash in your yard and let weeds grow up everywhere it is indicative of a lack of motivation, self-respect, and respect for your community."

And your solution is to point that out?

Pointing out that people can and should do better is hardly "acting liberal."

Only pointing out what you think are other people's shortcomings is worse than "acting liberal." At least liberals want to do something about it. It seems you want to impose your values on people who have long ago rejected those values. Conservatives talk about personal responsibility and part of that means letting go of people who don't want the kind of help conservatives offer (opportunity for education and a job). The alternative is to steal working people's money in order to give these unmotivated individuals of low self esteem a better life. Just hire a maid and a gardener for each reservation family and the problem's solved, right?

I haven't mowed the lawn in... (Below threshold)

I haven't mowed the lawn in three years.

Funny thing, before I moved here I met someone *from* here and he said how people down here don't take care of their yards all nice and pretty like everyone does where I came from.

Gee, I thought, that sounds sort of prejudiced.

Come to find out people laughingly call it "South West Natural" and the neighbors expect it. It really is different standards and expectations. What's wrong with knee high grass and wild flowers? Who decided that a front yard should look like a putting green? Why cut something that's actually *growing*?

And then there are the folks with a fence around their lot and a horse and a couple goats grazing up to the walls of the house. Nice house, too, with newer vehicles in the drive.

People living in town are a bit more conventional but this really doesn't phase the neighbors around here.

Synova,I envy the ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Synova,

I envy the freedom you have in the South West. I just mowed my lawn yesterday and I have one of those pesticide herbicide soaked lawns of nothing but grass. That's the standard where I live, but like Jeff Blogworthy I grew up on a farm, but in a backward part of the country. I shoveled cow, pig, and chicken shit, primed pumps and hauled buckets of water into the house, cut wood for both heat and cooking, used an out house on a regular basis, planted and picked acres of land by hand, and helped prepare food for canning. I could step out the front door and let loose with a shotgun, piss on the front lawn, hack down trees, build forts in the woods, and go fishing. I've swam in rivers, creeks, ponds, and cattle tanks. My brother and I would set fires, blow up stuff, have BB gun fights, and experiment with live ammo. We made Denis the Menace look like he was comatose. I look back on my youth and know that God's angels were protecting us because there's not natural explanation of how we survived childhood.

Yes, we were poor, but as a kid I didn't know that because we had it better than some of the neighbors. Now I look back and realize we had so much freedom and we were happy beyond anything money could buy. As an adult I reside in a suburb and live according to the standards of the area, my position, and the times, but I long for the days when I was truly free. That's why I get a bit testy when other's what to impose their standards on people who are not complaining about how they live or asking for more of my money. When they start doing that, then I have the right to impose my standards on their freedoms.




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