DJ: Malkin has been a contributor to VDARE.com for YEARS. You know (no, you don't), the anti-immigration website?

There's a worldwide web out there!

Many Mexicans believe we lack the will to stand up for our country and they are right to a large degree - many Americans lack the will to enforce the law for fear of "looking mean-spirited". Mexicans think, if the gringo don't want to stand up for their country, we'll gladly take over.

Then there are the farmers who sound more and more like 19th century plantation owners from the deep south. What they want is cheap, illegal labor and they cry the "economy will suffer" if they don't get 'em - same thing the plantation owners told Abe Lincoln long ago.

And don't be fooled folks, most, repeat most illegal aliens are NOT HAVING WITHHOLDINGS FROM THEIR PAYCHECKS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE PAYCHECKS; THEY'RE PAID UNDER THE TABLE, DUH.

Only a small percentage actually pick fruit and veggies - most have flooded into other occupations, driving down wages with their fake ID's, fake or stolen social security numbers, driving without licenses, etc.

Jorge Bush, Jeb Bush, Gonzales, Martinez, Guiteriez....hmmm, do I detect a pattern here?

If President Bush and the amnesty crowd are really serious about border security, they should adopt the same mechanism that liberals used in environmenal law. They should include provisions to allow citizen lawsuits for every provision of border security and immigraiton enforcement.

If the government does not hire enough border agents, allow citizens to sue to government to force them to comply. If the government does not build a fence, allow lawsuits to force its construction. If the government waves the documentation requirements, allow citizen lawsuits for negligence of government officials.

When the government allows citizens to sue them for not doing their jobs, them we will know that they are serious. If President Bush and Senator Kennedy allow for everything to be wavied latter on or allow for some symbolic sign-off with no enforcement mechanism.

The government has lied in the past about immigration. Let the citizens to have a role in enforcement or the politicians should shut up.

Good post, DJ.

But don't be too hard on Malkin and Hewitt.

They, like other mediums (sic) have become a victim of their success. Each and every opinion expressed has an implicit, or explicit entourage which chafes at any divergence or modification. That includes all print or electronic media.

It is a snapshot of political constituencies. Aside from the economic benefits of success, there is the psychological threat of alienation as well as the fear of appearing disloyal to friends(although political hacks seem to suffer less from the latter).

But losing financial support is high up on the list of undesirables. Therefore the more successful a blogger is (ad revenue) the greater the need for justification of previous positions.

It's as old as human history itself.

VDARE.com....damn, there are some bright folks there, they make most of the webbers look like the high school kids many are.

Besides, VDARE is not anti-immigrant, they (and I am) anti-illegal immigration? Know why? I care about my country, heritage, culture, language, religion, duh, that's why.

Numbers matter kiddies, whether illegal or even legal immigration, numbers matter. For it you don't limit numbers of legal immigrants, there's no point in differentiating between legal and illegal immigration. Legal immigration with "gently coerced" assimilation is good and what it should be.
Anything else is simply inviting colonization (which is happening). ....."such hard workers, good hearted people.....", yeah sure Jorge Busheron.

How do you eat an elephant? Sure, it seems like an insurmountable task, but doing nothing isn't helping. Locking up our border agents and allowing them to be intimidated isn't helping. Inviting Mexico to defeat our border security and enforcement provisions in our own courts isn't helping. Government agencies (the INS, for instance) turning a blind eye isn't helping. You act as though we have no infrastructure in place already. It starts by resolving to do your job/duty and then doing it from the ground up. We are the most powerful nation on earth and we act as though we are just powerless to prevent incursions along our southern border. How about getting serious about it for a change?

BTW; A big Hat Tip to WIZBANG for remaining open to divergent viewpoints, I have noticed an increase of
banning at the slightest of infringements elsewhere.

Cheers

D.J.,

Michelle Malkin doesn't hate foreigners. She is anti-illegal immigration. There is a difference between the two.

What gives you the idea that Michelle hates foreigners? Is it because she insists that foreigners immigrate to the USA through legal means, like the way her parents did?

Plus, when did it become the responsibility of bloggers and Media members to solve a problem that members of Congress are supposed to solve? If Michelle Malkin and Hugh Hewitt were running for Congress, then it would be fair to insist that they provide solutions to whatever national problem that they complain about.

As it turns out, Michelle Malkin has used her blog to promote solutions to the problem of illegal immigration. Perhaps you missed reading those particular posts of hers, but I didn't.

Several of us, including some people you've actually heard of, not just me, have been pushing for months for increased sanctions on employers who, knowingly or carelessly, employ illegals. Maybe superdestroyer just suggested how to make that actually work.

Hmm... let's see.

Building a fence staffed by boarder patrol agents will be pretty effective at doing point 1. The great thing is that it is easy to come up with a specific plan for this: just adapt whatever the Chinese, the Romans, the Brits, the Indians, the Moroccans, etc. have done. Their walls worked throughout all periods of history to keep people out. That does raise the issue of those who simply skip out on their visas. These you aren't really going to prevent, so you need to have a mechanism to find them when they go astray, that leads to...

For number two, I turn to how the feds got the drinking age to 21 in every state: Mandate that in order for a city or a state to receive federal funds, their law enforcement and civil service agencies must check for proof of legal residence and report violations to the INS. The INS would need to be expanded in order to cope with increasing case load, but if there's one thing Washington is good at, it's expanding bureaucracies. For those states that do not cooperate, specifically those that call themselves "Sanctuary cities.:" think of them as honey pots. Those cities go to the top of the list for federal raids. Expand ICE and unleash them on the poor misguided illegals that really believed a city council could offer them refuge.

For number three: This is actually completely unnecessary, and thus does not need a specific plan, or any plan. Provided that you deport the same number of illegals as those who enter the country illegally, the problem will vanish naturally as either illegals "self deport" due to lack of favorable conditions (see two) or die of old age.

The funny thing about the President's plan is it does nothing to solve the ostensible problem it uses to justify its existence: maintaining a supply of cheap labor. Once the illegals become legal, they stop being cheap, as you not only have to pay minimum wage, but you also have to deal with unionization of those workers, and the demands for improved working conditions, benefits, and wages that come with them. Then you are right back to square one, as your cheap labor has become normal labor.

Ten comments in, and still nothing specific. Sorry JSchuler, you called your plan specific, but it really just ducked the questions. You never actually said how you'd acocmplish part 1, you seem to think part 3 is unnecessary because those Keebler Elves I mentioned must really exist in your mind, and as for part 2 - you never addressed the real question, whcih was how to do those things you want. Expanding ICE, penalizing cities/businesses which break the law, those are goals, not how you get there, and so you get no points for trying to play a switch game.

Dodo David, I have read Malkin's stuff for a long time and in detail. It's not constructive, it's not reasonable, and it treats millions of people as nondescript parcels of matter to be disposed of, which is impractical and frankly insulting. Just because I don't want millions of illegals to come here, does not mean that they don't count as people.

The combination of RINO fatcats and leftist vermin is an alliance made in HELL, the twenty-first century's version of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact of 1939. Its goal is the same, the dismemberment and subjugation of an independent country.

In some ways the present deal with Satan is worse. It wasn't the Polish leadership itself that sold out its own country to foreign invaders, but that is what Bush and his fellow invasion instigators have done.

TREASON!!!

From Debbie Schlussel:

Aside from the basic absurdities of the Ted Kennedy-George W. Bush Illegal Alien Amnesty agreement reached today, there are these absurdities that I've learned from disgusted high-ranking Homeland Security officials in the know.

1) Temporary Worker Program (TWP) aliens will NOT be checked against the most basic databases-so we have no way of knowing who these aliens are (they can give whatever name they want to give and it must be accepted at face value) and whether they are terrorists or criminals. DHS officials at Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) say the TWP applicants will NOT be checked against the TECS (The Enforcement Communication System) or IBIS (InterAgency Border Inspection System) databases (IBIS is part of TECS). Therefore, it is a certainty that many Islamic terrorists and hardened criminals will have a golden ticket into America.
illegalaliens.jpg

2) Currently, CIS officials are "encouraging" all immigration and citizenship application adjudicators to approve 10 applicants per hour. That means no more than 6 minutes per applicant is spent checking who they are, CURRENTLY. Imagine what will happen under this new Amnesty Bill when over 100,000 people per day must be processed (and their applications are being farmed out to private companies like the one that approved the 9/11 hijackers' visas, after 9/11). Yup, CIS chief Emilio T. Gonzalez-who is too busy giving himself awards along with Michael Chertoff-is forcing employees to rubber-stamp through citizenship applications.

Think that'll change when 30 million new applications (when all family members end up here) come into the mix? Think again.

3) All applicants to the TWP and citizenship parts of the bill have at least a 24-hour until their fingerprints and info go online all over the country. That means they have a 24-hour window to apply at multiple CIS offices to get multiple citizenship documents under various names and identities. There is no check on this.

4) Even where backgrounds are checked and/or applicants are caught with terrorist or criminal problems or inconsistencies, ICE(Immigration & Customs Enforcement)-which investigates and enforces against them-turns down 79% of the referrals it gets from CIS, and those people get to become citizens, anyway. Wonderful.

5) The increased border presence and toughness? Don't hold your breath-this quid for the quo of giving citizenship to millions who don't deserve it-is really not a quid at all. This bill doesn't guarantee that, unlike the Mainstream Media's false reports. All it guarantees is that 6 months or so from now Michael Chertoff promises to give President Bush a plan for what he'll do 18 months beyond . . . when all of them are out of office and heading for shuffleboard and the Early Bird Special in retirement in Miami or Boca or whereever. OH, and by the way, the "increased border security" in the air will be a scant two drones each for thousands of miles of unmanned territory on our northern and southern borders. What a joke.

6) Don Crocetti, Director of CIS' Fraud Detection National Security Unit, is responsible for all the national security background checks at CIS, benefit fraud analysis, etc. He was investigated and censured by congress for his role in the Citizenship USA scandal at INS. Guh-reat!

"The president is so desperate for a legacy and a domestic policy win that he is willing to sell out the American people and our national security," Tancredo said."

Tancredo just violated Reagan's eleventh commandment, "Thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican", but somehow I suspect that Reagan would approve.

"does not mean that they don't count as people."

No one has said that they don't count as people.

Some of us want VERY MUCH for them to count as people - in MEXICO!!!

Lots of noise, lots of venom ... but still no concrete alternatives.

Sadly, as I expected.

Concrete alternative?

There you go again.

You are sure trying to get a lot of mileage out of that Johny one-note retort.

It is understandable though, as defending the undefendable is very hard to do otherwise.

I am sure glad that I have not, for whatever reason, decided to take on that task.

How about ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL?

How about ENFORCING the law?

If necessary, fine the living S$$$ out of and imprison if needed every business money grubber from the agriculture plantation owners to the ma and pa stores to Wal(made in China)-Mart.

You take away the opportunity for the businesses to hire illegals, then how many will come to the United States?

And how about getting a President and a Senate that are not committing treason against the United States of America?

Read powerlineblog.com's take on the Cornyn and McCain controversy, and you get an idea of the lack of seriousness on the part of the pro-bill folks.

I'd take the Kyl-Cornyn bill--a serious approach.

This is the proverbial watching of the sausage being made . . .

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague."

Marcus Tullius Cicero

That said, I support some reform over none at all, since we have all allowed this unfettered illegal immigration, which in essence was de facto approval by us all and our government of what was going on the last 20 years.

We can't deport them, and we practically invited them in. So we do have to get real about it. Xenophobia is something we should park at the front door when we talk about this.

Stew in your own juices - I'm out a here!

DJ: This is how you begin the ebb tide back to Mexico. Arrest the CEO and COO of the biggest employers of illegals in each major metropolitan area (say 100-120 suits).
Make them poop in public for several days before releasing them to prepare for their arraignment on felony charges (tax fraud, whatever).
Then go down the list to the next largest employers. Millions of Mexicans would be gone within the year.
Remember: "poor" Mexicans each have a rent-free home or ranchero in Mexico. A little-acknowledged fact. They're mainly answering an open invitation for Big Money Opportunity.

And, without a single real contribution to answering the questions, one of our contestants snarls and stomps off stage.

Thanks, AC, for proving my point.

Thanks Mitchell, your comment at least deals with the reality we face. Anything we do is going to be incremental, will be opposed by special interests, and will be partially successful at best. We have to do the work of course, but these spit-faced ranters are not helping find solutions.

The biggest lie about illegal immigration is the estimate of 12 million illegals in our country. What a laugh! There are probably 2 million on Long Island alone. The truth is, our government has no idea how many illegals are here. What I have witnessed first hand is: The scandalous drain on our social services by illegals in NYC. As a paramedic, I treat thousands a year and see them treated in the hospitals at a staggering cost to taxpayers. Most do not speak English, but they ALL have a Medicaid card and a DBT (food stamp) card. Even the Russian women with their full length furs (TRUE) . The system is broken and hemorrhaging money.

Why don't you lead the way with your plan, [b]DJ[/b]?

And if amnesty is given to the millions of illegals in America, who's going to do the "jobs that Americans won't do"?

Well, bryanD, how are you going to arrest those CEOs?

The laws on the books for decvades now, no one enforecs them, so what is going to change that?

I'm not saying I don't want that goal, but no one says how they can make the law suddenly become enforced. And that's what I'm talking about, the difference between what people want, and how, exactly, they figure to make it happen.

Angry insults and slogans are just going to change anything, and attacking the few people who are trying to do something just strikes me as wrong.

Sorry, angry insults and slogans are not going to change anything.

(1) Use the same plan on our southern border that is used for the border between North and South Korea; fences, machineguns, and mines, mines, mines. Blow a few thousand border-jumpers to bits with antipersonnel mines, and that problem will dry up real quick.

(2) Put a bounty on illegal aliens, claimable by any US citizen. $500 for each verified illegal alien turned in to INS.

(3) Anybody we catch gets immediately deported. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Just shove 'em right back across the border.

Kids, this isn't some sort of intractable problem. Countries have secured their borders. Countries have controlled their immigration systems. It's just a matter of doing it.

SS

OK sansoucy, thanks for the first specific plans.

How will you address the lawsuits filed by illegals' families for the deaths? You know the courts already have granted 'rights' to illegals just to be here, so killing them will cerftainly get a Liberal court's attention.

Who will enforce those bounties, and how will they be funded? Remember, Congress doesn;t want to pay for the freaking fence, so how will you get them to agree to fund bounties?

And the problem with 3, is that if we just throw them across the border Monday, they come back Tuesday. If we try to deport them by plane, the receiving country says they can't take them. How do you figure to change those behaviors, especially as they are the behaviors of foreign nations?

We've seen these kinds of suggestions before, but there's a difference between the wish-list and the reality.

I frankly do not expect either of them to respond, because neither of them seems interested in solving problems, but only in making a noise about the issue,

I can't agree with that. Hewitt, for one, has published an extensive and substantive analysis of the voluminous bill:

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/

He has criticized the bill, Hugh S, he has never proposed a solution himself.

What he has done is toss out vague proverbs that sound good but hurt the debate instead of advancing it, because he supports the shouters and the name-callers rather than the people trying to do something.

DJ
I won't link the site again because it's so easy to find. But to say "he has never proposed a solution himself." does not reflect what he has said on his blog.
For example, he is in favor of increasing the number of BP agents and expanding the size of the fence. He said that today. Those are two specific suggestions that go toward solving the problem.

1) I'm not angry
2) I'm serious about wondering who will "do the jobs Americans won't do" once the slaves...err... illegal aliens because legal.
3) Malkin has probably answered all those already. I know she's been big on enforcement of the laws. Laws which, BTW, half the American public are either actively breaking or just don't care.
4) "Hate the foreigners" seems like a cop-out on your part, DJ, and I would expect better from you. :)
5) What's the difference between Malkin and Hewlitt criticizing our government for not enforcing laws and someone criticizing their criticizing (without giving his/her own solution)?

I'm just saying that apparently now it's not enough to run a blog, go on national TV or radio and write columns about something. Apparently they actually have to be on the ground -- perhaps with gun in hand at the border.

Not that they should be above reproach -- but why must they do anything more than say for the government to actually enforce the laws already written?