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Mindsnap

The terrorist attacks on 9/11/01 astonished the world. Rather than admit that the plot was well-designed and executed, many people fell back on acceptable assumptions and conceits. I call this behavior "mindsnap". Another example of this may be found in the way so many analysts address the JFK assassination in 1963. There are, to be plain, a lot of questions which should be considered about that assassination, yet many who believe the government's original case that Oswald acted alone (1964) refuse to consider evidence which contradicts the claim. On the other hand, many who believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, as Congress also concluded in 1978, also refuse to consider evidence which did not fit their own assumptions. The trauma of having to deal with a horrific event causes people to lock out difficult concepts and questions which cannot easily be answered. It is my belief that only be acknowledging the existence of such a behavior, can one begin to correct that bias and approach difficult questions with a fair hope for resolution.

Recognizing this syndrome is helpful in comprehending the behavior of certain groups. Mindsnap is why people afraid of Islamofascism can ignore that the horror or Terrorism is carried out by less than one-tenth of one percent of Muslims. It's why millions of American Muslims can demand that they be respected without publicly denouncing the murder of innocents in the name of their religion. It's why people will angrily denounce cartoons rather than stand up for helpless victims of repression, come to that. It's why people who are determined to believe a conspiracy theory for major events will ignore all the evidence that they embrace an absurd fantasy. It's why folks can support a leader at one point, then later pretend he is a fraud for maintaining the same position he always did. It's why so many people feel obliged to refer to an unpopular leader as the "worst in history". It's why masses of people can blame the federal government for state and local government blunders, or for acts of Nature. It's why people can still presume that folks will act a certain way, according to their appearance and genetic background. It's why people can demand they and their community be respected , even as they show no such respect to anyone not aligned with their political and cultural opinion. It's why various hatemongers can be not only excused for their venom, but lionized as some kind of hero for even the most vicious lies. It's why some can claim they "support the troops", when they do absolutely nothing to back them up in their mission or needs, or to care for their families. It's why the MSM tosses off a few selected sound bytes which match their perspective and call it "news". And it's why rational attempts to discuss issues and reach a consensus are all but doomed before they begin.

So what does the mature mind do when faced with such a massive syndrome affecting the sanity and reason of the species? Well, that's where you and I come in. The only cure is to sit people down, one by one, show them their false assumptions, challenge them to look at the broader perspective, and hope for a few grey cells to kick in and move the brain to cogency. The bad news is, this is a huge problem and it's growing fast. The good news is, we've seen this before. Those who know History will remember the arrogant assumptions of the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Romans, and all the various monarchies throughout Time. Every time, someone took up the challenge and forced a look at the facts. It's just that time again.


Comments (41)

I think some of that is tru... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

I think some of that is true.

But I think there is something much more simple at work. We have a sitting non-Democratic President who publicly cannot defend himself well. Maligning him and everything connected to him gives advantage to Democrats in elections.

So what does the mature ... (Below threshold)
Strick:

So what does the mature mind do when faced with such a massive syndrome affecting the sanity and reason of the species? Well, that's where you and I come in. The only cure is to sit people down, one by one, show them their false assumptions, challenge them to look at the broader perspective, and hope for a few grey cells to kick in and move the brain to cogency.

It's been tried and it doesn't work. Even when you force someone to look at the evidence, they find ways to rationalize it into their beliefs. Too bad, though, it would be worth the trouble if it would work.

The only thing that will break a mindsnap is a sharp, unexpected shock. You know, like what all those anti-war isolationists faced when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, or all those liberal admirers of the USSR and Stalin faced when even the Kremlin admitted the atrocities of the 30's and on.

And there is that one other little problem. Like the proverbial board in your eye, just because you see the symptoms in someone else doesn't mean that you can tell when you suffer from it. Any of us.

I'm just saying...

This reminds me of the stor... (Below threshold)
iceman:

This reminds me of the story of a frustrated psychiatrist who after many months of treating a schizophrenic who thought he was dead (a not uncommon delusion) used his medical training to what he thought was good use. He drew a vial of blood from the patient and said, "Well, dead men don't bleed do they? What do you think of this?" as he held up the vial of blood.

The patient thought for a moment and said, "I guess dead men do bleed".

Maybe I'm seeing a nail in ... (Below threshold)

Maybe I'm seeing a nail in everything his mature mind writes, but for all of the words about JFK, Egyptians, Muslims and the like, what I see is DJ still thrashing about looking for a way to convince people that George Bush is really a great President.

See, it's really our fault that we don't agree, it's our mindsnap that clouds our mind and keeps us from seeing the truth.

As much as lipstick gets put on this pig, I and millions upon millions of other Americans (including millions who, like me, voted for the guy twice) will never be convinced that George Bush has been anything but a complete and utter disaster as President... and that America will be a heck of a lot better off the sooner he can be referred to as a former President.

And why not flip that argument? Can't one just as easily claim that Bush defenders are the ones who are falling back on acceptable assumptions and conceits? Why aren't they the ones who need to be sat down, one by one, and shown their false assumptions, and challenged to look at the broader perspective, while we hope for a few grey cells to kick in and move the brain to cogency?

Steve, you seem to be proje... (Below threshold)
Mister Obvious:

Steve, you seem to be projecting here. Why are you focusing on one aspect and ignoring the rest?

And for that matter, why are you siding with the Michael Moores and the Rosie O'Donnells of the world? Shouldn't that be a warning sign that you're missing something?

Well said, DJ. :) But some... (Below threshold)

Well said, DJ. :) But somehow I don't think they'll listen. :(

I agree with Eric Forhan. <... (Below threshold)

I agree with Eric Forhan.
Too bad they won't listen, the effects are going to be longstanding.

Arguing with a 'Truther' is... (Below threshold)
Kat:

Arguing with a 'Truther' is like banging your head against a wall. There is no logic in this world that will shake a diehard nut.

Mister Obvious: the likes o... (Below threshold)

Mister Obvious: the likes of Moore and O'Donnell are but a small - a real small - part of the 70% of America who think Bush is doing a terrible job. Moore and O'Donnell are like the proverbial stoppped clock or the blind squirrel.

Kat: are the nuts the ones still supporting Bush, notwithstanding his having done a terrible job for this country, for the Republican party and for conservatism?

steve sturm, your analogy i... (Below threshold)

steve sturm, your analogy is pretty much like beating up a woman every day, then saying, "See? You're worthless!"

Moore and O'Donnell are the ideological abusers here, not just a "stopped clock".

Supporting Bush is supporti... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Supporting Bush is supporting the lesser of two evils.

If I have a choice between backing the President and backing Nancy Pelosi and her ilk, I'll put up with George.

Steve sturm- If it walks l... (Below threshold)
Kat:

Steve sturm- If it walks like a nut and talks like a nut.....
Don't overestimate opinions on that 70%, the only people that use polls, use polls.

The only cure is to sit ... (Below threshold)
Veeshir:

The only cure is to sit people down, one by one, show them their false assumptions, challenge them to look at the broader perspective, and hope for a few grey cells to kick in and move the brain to cogency.

Hmmm, interesting strategery.
It reminds me of communism. It only works when people aren't involved.

I've had the exact same conversation with many a lefty about how Bush didn't lie. At the end of it, they have either admitted that I was right (or that everybody on the planet was lying from 1997-2003 which even the ones who claim to belive that admit it's pretty far-fetched, but these are the committed lefties who refuse to believe Bush isn't the devil) or they call me names and go away.
Whichever way it went, the next day the same lefty is saying that Bush lied.
You should read the book, Code of the Lifemaker. One guy, Massey, spends the whole book trying to convince people that this "mentalist" is a fake but gets nowhere. At the end, two of the mentalist's "mentors" (suckers) are discussing how all pyramids look the same everywhere or something equally inane when Massey thinks about trying to convince them. Somebody says, "You could spend the next 3 weeks putting together a report that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they are talking about is totally wrong and it would do no good as they would just go off on another equally inane "theory". (That aspect is mostly just a side-show to the real book with is incredibly interesting and good).

People aren't logical and don't take well to facts that disprove their worldview.
Read some Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land would be a pretty good start. Heinlein didn't get advances in technology right, but he knew people and I learned a lot from that book about people.

Sturm,You're the onl... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Sturm,
You're the only one to mention Bush. That says something about you, and proves DJs point. To misquote Whittle "You ARE Oswald"

Good post, DJ."min... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Good post, DJ.

"mindsnap" is why certain people want to "forget" the FACT that Muhammed Atta went to the International Officers' School, Maxwell AFB, WHILE he (and others of his cell) were under heavy surveillance by the FBI and the Pentagon's ABLE DANGER program (for over a year).
And that the cells' sponsor was the brother of OBL (a big GOP contributor) who was escorted out of the country by our miltary after 9/11.
And that Ashcroft, Congress, Willie Brown, and others were warned in advance that the attacks would happen, and thus, those attacks were not a suprise to Condi, etc, in contradiction to their testimony.
This film addresses these and other loose ends(PNAC, Suncruz, Florida "recount", ABLE DANGER, etc) that make a compelling case for conspiracy, murder and treason from within the power centers of the US, AGAINST the people of the US (and ultimately others worldwide)
The film concludes with the unedited video of Bush sitting around at school, doing the world's worst imitation of a War President at Zero Hour.

I give this film 2 thumbs + 2 big toes WAY UP!
And for Bushbot Apologists: force yourself to watch, if only so you don't get blindsided by these points in public, and perhaps wet yourselves.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688

See what I mean, DJ?... (Below threshold)

See what I mean, DJ?

"See what I mean, DJ?" ... (Below threshold)
Wieder:

"See what I mean, DJ?" Eric Forhan in response to post above by bryanD

Forhan, this is hardly the 1st time you simply just dismiss whatever runs counter to your Pavlovian-induced thought process. Did you watch any of the film?

You are "Mindsnap" incarnate.

DJ, the flaw in your reason... (Below threshold)
Paul Hamilton:

DJ, the flaw in your reasoning is that the "Islamic terrorists" aren't doing what they do for the sake of Islam, but for the sake of power and of hatred. You can compare today's terrorists to the KKK in the period following the Civil War. The KKK had noble-sounding principles and even made sure they had Christian symbolism displayed prominently.

But when all was said and done, they were terrorists. They wanted to seize power for themselves by killing or scaring off the opposition. And they succeeded for a long time because they had the support -- at least not the active opposition -- of the people where they operated.

And the same thing is true today in places like Iraq. I'm sure that the vast majority of Iraqis didn't start out hating the Americans, but they view them in the same way that southerners perceived the Carpetbaggers in the wake of the Civil War -- outsiders who were occupying their land and imposing a system of government on them that they don't want.

So these fine, upstanding Christian men and women were willing to make a deal with the devil to preserve their society. And the good people of Iraq are being driven to the same thing by the ongoing incompetence of the American occupation and the corrupt leadership of Maliki and his ilk.

As the saying goes, I don't... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

As the saying goes, I don't have to stick my hand in a toilet to know what's in there.

The problem with Bryan's post is that he made several rather provocative claims, with no support for it whatsoever except that he saw a film he liked and wants you to watch.

Films are great for entertainment. They are not, however, the equal of substantive research. Where, for example, is there any documentation to support the claim that Administration officials knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance? I dare say that if such evidence existed, we'd have heard about it from Mr. Reid or Ms. Pelosi, but instead all we really have is allegations, on about the same intellectual level as Rosie O'Donnell's 'fire does not melt steel' rant.

I was particularly amused by Bryan's mention of 'ABLE DANGER', since the gist of that investigation was that the Clinton Administration shut down pursuing connections between certain Middle Eastern men in the United States and possible terrorist sponsors. If false, ABLE DANGER does not support the claim to prior warning, and if true, the allegation would essentially be that the Clinton Administration had warnings, but did not pass them on the Bush White House. In either condition, trying to use the ABLE DANGER claims to blame the Bush Administration demonstrates either a very poor grasp of the information which was given in testimony, the deliberate distortion of facts in order to attack the Bush Administration, or both. But I guess we are supposed to believe that Sandy Berger stole and destroyed classified documents in hopes of, what, protecting President Bush?

I could go on, but there are better works of fiction I could critique.

Wieder, in fact I've discus... (Below threshold)

Wieder, in fact I've discussed all of those issues at great length -- just not on this board.

I should probably add to th... (Below threshold)

I should probably add to that, since DJ's whole point is about what the "cure" is.

The problem is that those arguments, as expressed by bryanD, have been around for some time now. If, for example, they take great umbrage to the President staying for five minutes or so rather than running out of the classroom, how does one explain to them that doing such was the best route for the moment?

People that can keep up this part of the conversation are far-better-than-I. It's rough, and all-too-often leads to being called some nasty names (ie, opposing the immigration bill is bigotry). Kudos to those who've sustained.

"If, for example, they take... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"If, for example, they take great umbrage to the President staying for five minutes or so rather than running out of the classroom, how does one explain to them that doing such was the best route for the moment?_Eric Forhan"

You make my point. How did Bush know that 9/11 was a surgical strike only by air, and not a multi-force assault on him, the Leader? By insurgents in cars, say, who could read the president's PUBLIC itenerary of the day, ie: PR visit to school? And perhaps stage an assault on said school?
The secret service would automatically assume the possibility existed and would have ushered him to a SECURE area. (Remember, Harry Truman was attacked at Blair House by Puerto Rican nationalists 50 years ago,using pistols and grenades. An object lesson) That's why the tape is so telling: for what was NOT done. And how did they KNOW it didn't need to be done? The SS were not even in the room. They were with him on the trip, but not where they should have been.


DJ, As long as you think in R vs D terms, you'll always be confused. There are a million intersecting interests that both parties have in common. Too numerous to mention. Berger? Look at the Bush-Clinton association since Bill's governorship and his dealings with HW's old firm, the CIA at Mena Airport, where many drug-arms shipments were made via central America to finance the ElSavador and Nicaruaguan civil wars after the Boland amendment dried up legitimate funds allocation from Congress. Could explain why Bushco didn't press the Berger matter. Same with Marc Rich's pardon by Clinton. Daddy Bush and Bill are "old friends". CFR memberships, Yale, etc.

Anyway, that's real life. Never buy a pig in a poke. You need to open the bag. It's like the Masons: supposedly they exist to promote the secret of Human Happiness as symbolized by their Love Feast folderol. Enquire why they won't share this Knowledge with those who can benefit and to whom it supposedly addresses, and the Master draws a Blank. You're NOT SUPPOSED TO ASK.

I love asking! One's brain becomes smoothed-over if one doesn't exercise it.

Keep talking bryan, you're ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Keep talking bryan, you're doing my work for me.

You see, all the allegations in the world don't addd up to even one proven charge. For all your 'X-Files' innuendo, your plate is still empty and the adults know it.

Occam's Razor. Please pick... (Below threshold)

Occam's Razor. Please pick one of these two choices:

-Bush knew about the attacks in advance and he and all involved (dozens, if not hundreds) have been able to keep it secret for almost six years.

-Bush had to wait while Secret Service re-routed Air Force One and set up an alternate route (in case he did the predicted response) to keep the President safe.

-"Bush knew about the attac... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

-"Bush knew about the attacks in advance and he and all involved (dozens, if not hundreds) have been able to keep it secret for almost six years."

Secret? What secret? (Admission is a whole 'nother thing)


"-Bush had to wait while Secret Service re-routed Air Force One and set up an alternate route (in case he did the predicted response) to keep the President safe."

Yeah, they landed Airforce One on the playground. Only tipped over one swing set. Ooorah!


Documenting your claims is ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Documenting your claims is not big with you, is it bryanD?

And btw, even if we assume the Secret Service was not at its best on 9/11/01, if you recall they have had bad days before. Remember thy were drinking in Ft Worth on 11/21/63, and that Francisco Duran got 29 shots off at the White House on 10/29/94 before the Secret Service could get to him? Seeing conspiracy where it's just human error is, well, pretty stupid.

I disagree, DJ. Believing t... (Below threshold)
Paul Hamilton:

I disagree, DJ. Believing that 19 nutcases could get on board planes without anybody blinking an eye and then commandeer and crash those planes into iconic locations of American culture is so painful that it's perfectly natural to think that we couldn't possibly be that stupid.

While I think that not all the questions surrounding 9-11 have been satisfactorily answered, especially the part about how Bush was so emphatic about ignoring the warnings, I'm not a conspiracy nut. Our incompetence alone could account for the terrorists' success with no outside help.

"emphatic about ignoring... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

"emphatic about ignoring the warnings"

Yet another claim w/o a shred of support.


Hey, there was that Preside... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Hey, there was that Presidential Daily Brief saying that Bin Laden was contemplating hijackings - that should have been enough! Of course, there weren't any further details, no flight numbers, no dates, no names, no information that could actually lead to stopping the hijackings - and let's not forget that hijackings pre-911 weren't assumed to be automatic death sentences. Flight crews were instructed to cooperate with the hijackers.

Also if these guys HAD been stopped - say, while they were boarding, and incarcerated, the same people blaming Bush for not doing enough pre 9/11 would be ripping him a new asshole for being racist enough to dare to presume men of middle eastern descent would actually do something so radical as crash planes into skyscrapers.

You make some good points J... (Below threshold)
Jerry G:

You make some good points JD. However mindsnap is a 2-way street. What you call people falling back on "assumptions" are very often backed up with facts that simply do not fit the opposeing party's peticular world veiw. So it is rejected out of hand, and without further examination. Then the label gets applied. Labeling is a favorite tactic to attempt to discredit those who strongly disagree. Such as the tactic of calling those with opposing views who might be looking at facts you do not wish to look at as having a "snydrome." I.e. "if you don't agree with me, then you are crazy, or have a mental illness." No, most who have opposing veiws outside the mainstream, are people who want what you want. They want justice. They want the truth. The way they differ, is that they are willing to consider all possibilities. Because if you really don't know, then anything is conceivably possible.
The history of world governments is a history of tyranny, oppression and corruption. All civilazations have their moment in the sun before succumbing to corruption and depravity. Are we so arrogant to think that we are above this? Our system is hopelessly entrenched in corruption. There is a thin veneer of goodness on top, so that those who wish not to see, {Mindsnap} don't have to. We all know something is terribly wrong with this nation. Some blame Democrats, some Republicans. But if you are blind and play along, you can only blame yourself. To think that our leaders are above treason, and our nation can never fail, and that a man is a Christian, simply because he says so, is the very worst Mindsnap of all.

WHAT IS BOHEMIAN GROVE? AND WHY DO OUR LEADERS GO THERE?

What if I were to tell you ... (Below threshold)
Jerry G:

What if I were to tell you that most of our leaders are occultists? That almost all of our presidents, dating back many decades, both Democrat and Republican, are members of the Bohemian Club. Club members meet at the Bohemian Grove in Northern California, and conduct occult rituals, complete with "mock sacrifices." Hardly a place for a Christian. George W. Bush, George HW Bush Prescott Bush, Bill Clinton, even Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon all belonged to the club.

Wild Claims? Of course. Can I show you proof? Not personally. I have certainly never been there.

But you can conduct a google search for yourself and read all about this 120 year old club. A man by the name Alex Jones, {yes, Alex Jones} infiltrated this club, The Bohemian Grove, and filmed an actual occult ritual. Something's on that film, whether you like Jones or not. No, there is no footage of any Presidents being there that one day it was filmed. But stolen membership lists, {fakes? possibly} include the global elite. Who else could get Secret Service Protection?

So you will laugh and say this is classic Mindsnap, and never bother to view the film, Dark Secrets, Inside Bohemian Grove.
Like I said, some kind of occult ritual was in fact filmed. The logical mind, the scientific mind, would come up with a hypothysis, that would explain the film, and what was taking place and add support to the opposing view. But if you don't look into it, then you are making classic assumptions, and are therefore guilty, by your own defination, of Mindsnap.

Fact: an occult ritual was filmed at a place called Bohemian Grove.

Fact: Richard Nixon made mention to Bohemian Grove on one of the Nixon Tapes. Said it was too faggy for him.

Fact: Secret Service are present.

You can choose to dismiss out of hand, and ignore the facts. Or you can look into it, and attempt to explain it.

If it were true, would this concern you?

This mindsnap thing goes in circles until you realize that you should never be so judgemental as to assume you know everything. When you grow beyond the stupid Dems vs Repubs nonsense, DJ, only then will you be able to open your eyes to all possibilities. Lack of a narrow minded carefully constructed world view, that is maintained by cherry picking facts, is not a "Syndrome." Its called being Scientific. As for me, I am still openminded to any alternatative view, that can explain what goes on at Bohemian Grove, and why our leaders go there and sit in for rituals.


Documenting your claims is not big with you, is it bryanD?
And btw, even if we assume the Secret Service was not at its best on 9/11/01, if you recall they have had bad days before. Remember thy were drinking in Ft Worth on 11/21/63, and that Francisco Duran got 29 shots off at the White House on 10/29/94 before the Secret Service could get to him? Seeing conspiracy where it's just human error is, well, pretty stupid.
Posted by: DJ Drummond at May 24, 2007 03:15 PM

<a href="http://en.wikipedi... (Below threshold)
Jerry G:
I can't say enough good thi... (Below threshold)

I can't say enough good things about Seeing the Unseen part 2:

When I finally got to the payoff [of the 'truth' behind JFK's death] a shot of electricity went through me. I realized that I was now in possession of such history-changing information that I distinctly recall getting up, opening the door and peering out into the rain to see if I was being watched. I felt, truly, for one half-hour that my life might be in danger. I wish I could say I am making this up.

That sense of uncovering deep layers of ancient cover-ups is what drove the sales of The DaVinci Code. There, too, a web of truths, half-truths and outright fabrication spun a story that left the reader with a palpable sense of awe. It made you feel important, like you knew something absolutely essential that very few others ever were privileged to know.

Jerry, Wikipedia is not acc... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Jerry, Wikipedia is not accepted as an authentic resource for scholars. And even they, in big letters, warned that there was no documentation or reference given for any of the claims made.

In other words, you have not begun to support your case, only spouted a few more conspiracy theories. Show me something with substance, please.

"The only cure is to sit pe... (Below threshold)
KendraWilder:

"The only cure is to sit people down, one by one, show them their false assumptions, challenge them to look at the broader perspective, and hope for a few grey cells to kick in and move the brain to cogency."

While I wholeheartedly agree with this prescription, DJ, I have to object to the approach. Time and again I've talked to someone, many someones over the years, about an issue on which they were in error in their analysis or perception, only to be rebuffed forcefully when the facts were presented. (This includes as a business supervisor trying to tell a team member where they got the problem wrong, as well as friends or family members when trying to explain where they got an issue wrong.)

The thing I learned through experience was that the average person tends to deal with issues and problems in 'sound bites', especially if they're uncomfortable when dealing with an unpleasant, or just plain tedious, issue. They assess the situation/problem/issue, jump to conclusions, and respond according to those snap assumptions. Dealt with quickly to get it out of their minds and focus, and get on to more pleasant and/or easier tasks, their mind is made up, and essentially you just don't want to try confusing them with the facts, as it were.

To try to do so quickly puts them on the defensive, because, after all, they assessed the problem/issue, and to now acknowledge that they made wrong conclusions or assumptions, and by extension solved it improperly, means they were wrong. And the average human hates being wrong. For some reason, psychologically, many people personalize that to mean that they're inadequate or inferior or incapable of dealing with what should be routine tasks. I don't know why this gets translated to mean that doing something wrong equals being a bad person, but an awful lot of people are insecure enough in their own person to make that kind of quantum leap.

Then one must not only deal with trying to show how the analysis or perspective were inappropriate or just plain wrong, one must also try to get beyond the barrier the person in question has set up to protect them from the personal character assassination that they perceive is now going on.

Frustrating as all getout!

For me, over the years, I've learned a bit of 'reverse psychology'. Each incident is different depending on the circumstances and the personality involved, but I no longer use frontal approaches in trying to deal directly with correcting incorrect assumptions or perceptions of problems and issues. This is sometimes difficult for me since I, myself, am an uncomplicated person and prefer to deal with issues directly. But it can be done.

Then again, there are some people who are so dense that they're a danger even to themselves. Recognizing those types of people is a challenge all by itself.

Most often, unfortunately, the very best that I can hope for is to "plant a seed", and hope that in time it grows and blossoms. People can sometimes surprise you with their capacity to learn, or rather unlearn that which they've adopted as a 'given'. It does take patience, and sometimes repeated subtle 'tending' of the garden to foster the healthy growth of the new concept.

bryanD[elusional]:... (Below threshold)
marc:

bryanD[elusional]:

I give this film 2 thumbs + 2 big toes WAY UP!

I know it's hard to do bryanD[elusional] but somehow you have had a Ripley's Believe it or Not moment and have misquoted yourself.

That should read: "I give this film 2 thumbs + 2 big toes WAY UP my own ass looking to pick the popcorn out of my teeth!"

There, that's more realistic.

marcia, please quit visuali... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

marcia, please quit visualizing my ass.

DJ, I never said that Wikip... (Below threshold)
Jerry G:

DJ, I never said that Wikipedia was an authentic resouce for scholars. I posted the link so that anyone unfamiliar with Bohemian Grove can get an overview. I said I was open to any hypothysis that could explain why our leaders go there and why the bizzare "play" or ritual, which has been going on there for over 120 years, continues. Its that I find it bizzare that a "Play" with mock human sacrifice, and Idol Worship, would be the entertainment of choice for family values politicians, and self professed Christians. Proof? When a politician declares that he is a Christian, does he offer proof? Yet every one believes him.
DJ, you wanted proof. I said I cannot supply proof directly, but if you watch the film, Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove, you will view the skull symbols, devils, and other symbols of death that are all over the camp. Again, strange place for our world leaders to spend their spare time. Wikipedia, shows a photo with Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon, and others at the Grove. I know its the Grove, because I recognise it from the film.

I am not here to offer proof that our leaders are into the occult. My purpose is to simply point out something that needs to have some light shed on it. Its strange, and demands explanation.
I opened my second post yesterday with "WHAT IF" My reason for doing so, was to get people thinking.
What I found disturbing on Wizbang in the past was the Witch Hunt mentality. The leader screams WITCH! and the mob yells BURN! They all pile on, with the sarcasam, never stopping to consider all possibilities. I posted these posts to demonstrate the knee jerk rejection that occurs when one hears something that fails to meet his personal world view. But it would appear that nobody is reading your opening post anymore. Conspiracy theory? Hardly. I am only pointing to Bohemian Grove and saying, "Look." . I don't know if our world leaders engage in satanic worship. That would be hard to believe. But what I saw on the film sure looks like an occult ritual, and I think our leaders need to explain themselves. Without creative thinking DJ, we would still be living in caves, no crime would ever be solved, no advancements ever made. I laugh at the sheer narrow mindedness of the average Wizbang poster. Mob Mentality. The Lemming Effect. What I find to be clear cases of what you call "Mindsnap" is any kneejerk acceptence or rejection of any topic without any clear scrutiny of the facts.

And by the way, isn't the federal government's own account of the events of 911, a conspiracy theory? That Islamic radicals under the leadership of Osama Bin Laden conspired to fly passenger planes into buildings. Isn't that a conspiracy theory? Federal authority behind this conspiracy theory does not make it necessarily true in the absence of facts. The fact that there is indeed a worldwide jehadist terror movement does not make the governments account of 911 true. What has set off 911 truthers is the omissions and distortions in the governments own report. What fuels this DJ, is not blind acceptance to wild conspiracy theory, what fuels this movement, are things such as the federal governments account of what happened, rests on reports such as the NIST report. The problem is the NIST report does not support the governments story. And the government refuses to address this. Truthers only want to know why not?
They are not crazy DJ, they are just being open minded enough to try to reason it out. And when it doesn't make any sense, they demand answers.
Thats not crazy, thats logical.

I agree DJ. The government ... (Below threshold)
Jerry G:

I agree DJ. The government should break its silence on 911 and have an open televised forum, and answer all questions raised. This forum should not bar ANY expert from attending and asking questions. Lets get the facts on the table, and get this out in the open. Lets see what the facts say. Is the Federal Government willing to do this? If not, then why not. If so, then lets get on with it.


So what does the mature mind do when faced with such a massive syndrome affecting the sanity and reason of the species? Well, that's where you and I come in. The only cure is to sit people down, one by one, show them their false assumptions, challenge them to look at the broader perspective, and hope for a few grey cells to kick in and move the brain to cogency. The bad news is, this is a huge problem and it's growing fast. The good news is, we've seen this before. Those who know History will remember the arrogant assumptions of the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Romans, and all the various monarchies throughout Time. Every time, someone took up the challenge and forced a look at the facts. It's just that time again.

Great giggity giggity.... (Below threshold)

Great giggity giggity.

Jerry G, I looked at that p... (Below threshold)
KendraWilder:

Jerry G, I looked at that photograph posted with the article about the Bohemian Grove at Wikipedia, and I sure don't see any Satanic symbols or anything even remotely suggestive of that.

Whether the movie you saw actually had footage filmed covertly at the Bohemian Grove or not is controversial.

But what I can tell you, having personally worked in the management level for a company in the TV Entertainment Industry, is that splicing, and editing, and superimposing, and other video tricks, are so common in post-production that nothing in that movie that you reference so religiously can be trusted to be "the real deal".

Movie making is the art of magically transforming the 'apparent' into the 'surreal', in such a convincing manner that a good portion of the viewing audience comes to believe that the surreal is, in fact, based on reality. Yet it's nothing more than slight-of-hand, smoke and mirrors, artistic license....

More the fool you for being sucked in, I'm afraid to say. Just one more wildly immaginative conspiracy theory that will live on long after you and I are no longer alive to trade points of view in a virtual blogosphere.




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