Here in Wisconsin, the donkeys are vehemently opposed to any voter ID requirements. Maybe because in every major election around here, they seem to have a penchant for trying to steal as many votes as possible. Or slashing tires of Republican get out the vote vans or having New Yorkers come here handing out cigs to the homeless in exchange for donkey votes or registering the mentally ill to go vote for democrats.

Wonder why they are opposed to the idea...

Al don't want no stinkin I.D. because it would jail thousands/millions of democrats. Plain and simple. If I don't have my voter registration card and vote in the right precinct then I'd better have a picture ID or I don't vote. Anyone doing it different in Va is a criminal themselves. Should be nationwide.

Let's say, conservatively, that about 5% of Dem votes are fraudulent, which is probably a fair estimate; the voter photo ID would then obviously negatively impact the Dems, in a very substantial way. No less then the balance of power and election results are at stake. Therefore, the Dems will NEVER permit that, never!

No ID, No Problem. Just dip your finger in the ink that lasts from the time early voting begins to 2 days after the election. That would at least put and end to Voting Early - Voting Often problem.

So you believe that the exercise of a constitutional right should require a federal -- or at least federally-approved -- ID card?

You realize that the government's idea for this card includes a magnetic strip on which they can store all sorts of information. But that's okay, you guys TRUST the government...

Sheesh...

Do I trust the gov.? Is that the question
Paul?

NO, but I trust a bio-metric ID card as proof of State AND U.S citizenship as opposed to the conniving losers from both sides of the aisle who attempt to rig elections.

BTW, your argument against is a hypothetical (OMG! the Gov is gonna have DATA!) and amounts to so much trash thrown at the curb.

NO, but I trust a bio-metric ID card as proof of State AND U.S citizenship _marcia

http://www.freedom.org/naugreen2/launch.html

Marc and Bryan:

Okay, fair enough. Now answer this -- if the government would only allow people to exercise their constitutional rights to bear arms if they carried a federally-issued photo ID with a magnetic strip, would you still be so happy about the idea?

Rights are rights. If you start chipping away at any of them, the whole consitution is weakened.

Rights are rights. If you start chipping away at any of them, the whole consitution is weakened.

The irony here being that allowing ineligible people to vote actually does weaken the constitution by diluting the vote of every citizen, whereas the states are specifically allowed to enact laws to insure the integrity of the voting process.

We require an ID to buy cigarettes and alcohol, to receive government benefits, and to drive a car. What is so different about requiring ID to vote?

The integrity of the process is at stake. It's funny that Democrats rail and invent conspiracy theories against electronic touch-screen voting - the most difficult system to defraud - and propose instead more paper ballots, the easiest method to cheat.

A cynical person might consider the above and conclude that Democrats feel they have the most to lose by keeping elections honest.

The whole "voter intimidation" angle for positive ID is baloney, anyway. I live in South Carolina, a deep South state where blacks encountered severe difficulties in exercising their franchise through the '60s, and some difficulties beyond. But that changed over time, and today blacks are well-represented in the election commissions, and well-educated as to their voting rights. SC requires either the SC voting card ID or a driver's license or other state-issued photo ID in order to vote. It doesn't "intimidate" anybody.

So how would an ID that's harder to fake "intimidate" anyone - except those attempting to vote fraudulently, of course?

So the wizzers clap and clamor for voter IDs - gee i wonder why? They cite "voter fraud" by "democrats". Where's the proof of the massive democratic voter fraud? Where are the studies (by independent organizations) of this massive democratic voter fraud? Of course there is none. And for those rabid libertarians here, what's your view of the government requiring IDs to exercise the most basic and fundamental right of a citizen. And how do these IDs deal with absentee voting? and on, and on and on .

And, as Paul posits, you wizzers would all be for federal ID cards for those carrying any firearm correct?

What is the need for ID when you vote?
Does everyone here have no problem if police ask you for ID?
...
and I agree..if folks believe all this ID stuff is necessary...In order to purchase a gun you should have a picture ID that is registered with the FBI.

After all what is the concern if you are not going to commit a crime?

NOGO, that is just plain stupid.

Taltos is 100% correct. If there is voter fraud on both sides, we all know there is, then the purity of our constitutional right to vote is corrupted. As a former election judge, I have had to challenge voters who claimed no ID at all. Their name was in the registar but I did not know if the person in front of me was that person. As the years went on, the challenges grew. Why? Logically it was intentional fraud. They knew I could not refuse them and they knew I couldn't make them prove they were who they said they were. So, if that is just one little precinct in this huge country of ours, there is a big problem. ww

Why are Democrats so down on ID cards?

Consider this pattern (which happened in Texas)

The 1994 Texas state legislature passes a law requiring election workers from both political parties to be present in all polling places. (Prior to that, in many places the poll workers belonged to just one party: Republican in Arlington, TX, Democrats throughout East Texas and South Texas. The law was passed because the Democrats cried voter fraud in Arlington, and the Republican minority used that to force the law through.)

In 1996 -- for the first time ever -- Republicans sweep the state-wide ballot positions. This is the major first election after this law is passed.

In 2000 the Texas state legislature passes a law locking ballot boxes. (Prior to that time one of the Election Judges' responsibilities was to count the voted ballots and arrange the ballots neatly.)

In 2002 Republicans take many local seats that had previously been held by Democrats since Reconstruction ended. Again, this is the first major election after this law passed.

I do not mind losing elections. The people have spoken, (the idiots) in that case. I do mind losing due to vote fraud. People have a right to be idiots. They have no right to be cheated. As a result I welcome laws that ensure the purity of the vote.

The argument that you should not have your right to vote challenged because no other rights require a display of identity is fallacious because no other right is limited -- in the Constitution -- to a class of people (in this case citizens). Non citizens have freedom of speech. They have protection against unreasonable search and seizure. The Constitution does not enumerate those rights for "citizens," it enumerates them for the people. However it specifically limits franchise to citizens. Therefore, individuals must demonstrate that they belong to the class "citizens" and not "the people" to exercise that right.

JFO, there is plenty of documentation of Democratic voter fraud in Seattle, Wisconsin and Missouri. Why do you think there is a US Attorney scandal?

Well, besides the fact that McNulty and Schumer thought they could cook up a scandal to down Gonzales and put McNulty in just in time for the DoJ to support impeachment proceedings.

You want to talk about the Constitution. Where does it say the Senate Judiciary member from the opposing party has more power than the Attorney General from the executive department elected by the will of the people.

Once the story of this Democratic opposition is known it will be looked upon as one of the most unethical, unprincipled bunch ever. Fitzgerald is a national disgrace. Read about Plame's memo.
===============================

Last time I bought a firearm I had to present ID along with various other steps before taking my pistol home. There is only one reason libs everywhere oppose ID requirements, they know it is going to cut down on voter fraud.

So the wizzers clap and clamor for voter IDs - gee i wonder why? They cite "voter fraud" by "democrats". Where's the proof of the massive democratic voter fraud? Where are the studies (by independent organizations) of this massive democratic voter fraud?

Recent Fraud

AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards.

CO 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times.

CO 2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations.

FL 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was "singled out" among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was �the common thread� in the agency�s fraud investigations.

MI 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that "overzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters." ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents.

MO 2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally.

NC 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards.

NM 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group�s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: "It's safe to say the forgery was widespread."

NM 2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was "manufacturing voters" throughout New Mexico.

OH 2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called "blatantly false" forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group.

MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed.

PA 2004 Reading's Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was "absolutely out of hand," and added: "Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations." The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice.

TX 2004 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters "The signature is not my signature. It's not even close." His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect.

VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.

In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally," they wrote, "information appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia."

WI 2004 The district attorney's office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, "an apparent
violation of state law," according to the paper.

Any guesses as to what party ACORN, pretty much EXCLUSIVELY, gets registrations for?
-=Mike

Paul:

"Rights are rights. If you start chipping away at any of them, the whole consitution is weakened."

You have a strange way of interpreting the constitution, my friend. Amendment II doesn't specify what age a person has to be in order to bear arms, but Amendment XXVI does specify the age in which you can vote. It further says that Congress has the authority to enforce that particular article by appropriate legislation. So, it sounds to me Congress could easily write legislation requiring proper ID at the voting booth, and it would be entirely within its rights to do so.

Then again, I notice you didn't get all bent out of shape about whether a Marxist "Gas Allowance" idea, floated in your own post, passes constitutional muster. Why are you so selective?

From my comment above: "floated in your own post" should read "floated in your own comment section".

I don't have any problem with voter ID laws per se; they have to be structured in such a way, though, that they don't run afoul of the poll tax ban in the Constitutional. That means they have to be free to all citizens, and a reasonable time has to be afforded to procure one.

Whether or not that's good policy, it's a Constitutional requirement.

I don't understand why so many Democrat politicians contend such a requirement is discriminatory.

The people most likely to be living off the grid, if you will, are the poor. Not so complicated if you'd only think about it.

Is there a class which disenfranchises itself? And if so, does fraud enfranchise them?
=====================================

MikeSc;

I'm way underwhelmed. Keep trying.

Mike, you hit the lefties with hard core facts and now they say not enough. I say if one vote is done by fraud then all is suspect. ww

Make the ID free; no poll tax.

Given that the right to vote is given to citizens of a certain age, there is nothing unreasonable about requiring someone to prove their citizenship and age.

Seems common sense to me, but if you don't like the ID idea, let's put it to a vote in the next election. Even under today's lax voting rules, I'll bet it would pass. Anywhere.

"Mike, you hit the lefties with hard core facts and now they say not enough. I say if one vote is done by fraud then all is suspect. ww"

Mike just wrote stuff..how about some links that aren't from Red State backing them up..

If you required photo ID, then illegals, "multiple" voters, and the otherwise ineligible woulldn't be able to vote. Vote fraud in Chicago tends to take place in neighborhoods that are either predominantly Latino and/or heavilly Democrat-leaning. To preclude such activity would mean a blow to Democrat candidates, period.

It really is that simple.

"Well, besides the fact that McNulty and Schumer thought they could cook up a scandal to down Gonzales and put McNulty in just in time for the DoJ to support impeachment proceedings" kim

Proof that psych wards now offer inmates internet access.

I'm way underwhelmed. Keep trying.

Yet Bush stealing the 2000 and 2004 election is gospel to the left.

Stunning.
-=Mike

Wieder, Bush said there is an internal investigation going on at the DoJ, and that if there were wrongdoing, it will be taken care of 'like you would like', in response to a reporter's question. They're on to Schumer.
=================

nogo:

Mike just wrote stuff..how about some links that aren't from Red State backing them up..

How about this one. And note the fraud occurrs on both sides of the aisle.

Or read this book.

" Bush said there is an internal investigation going on at the DoJ, and that if there were wrongdoing, it will be taken care of 'like you would like'" inmate harpie

No surprise that your eyes are "brown."

Got another pass to the ward computer, kim?

Wieder, Goodling with immunity, testified to McNulty's perjury. You sound mad, sputtering ad hominems until they dribble down your face, but I suspect you are just enraged.
================================

Wieder, Bush said there is an internal investigation going on at the DoJ, and that if there were wrongdoing, it will be taken care of 'like you would like', in response to a reporter's question.

Sounds like they're getting that medal of freedom ready.

Interesting, isn't it, that the CIA and the DoJ apparently were two parts of the executive branch least amenable to control by this administration.

The Constitution wants it otherwise. Why do you putzes not?
==============================

And you should be eternally grateful like the rest of us.

"Any guesses as to what party ACORN, pretty much EXCLUSIVELY, gets registrations for?
-=Mike"

Great work MikeSC, funny how they all seem to get choked up and enraged when their Party of Perpetual Fraud is exposed. What is hilarious is that they call themselves "Pro-Choice". They choose to lie rather than tell the truth. They choose to support liars and frauds to run their lives and not protect them. It really makes no sense at all , are they that lazy and afraid of taking personal responsibility. Is there a dollar amount on "feeling good"?

JFP, you anti-Democrat. Constitutionally, the DoJ is supposed to be under executive control. And you want me to be eternally grateful that it hasn't been for the last six years? During which time we get Foley putting up the Star Chambrist Fitz, and McNulty stabbing Gonzales in the back, both at Schumer's direction.

You, young fool, need to look at the Constitution. The people vote every four years on the executive tasked with enforcing the laws. It was set up that way to prevent the sort of tyranny by bureaucracy that we recently saw in the CIA and the DoJ.
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