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Raid on al Qaeda Safe House leads to discovery of Torture Manual

The US military raided an al Qaeda safe house in Iraq and found a very disturbing torture manual. The Smoking Gun got its hands on the manual and published it along with photos of real kidnap victims who were victims of this torture:

MAY 24--In a recent raid on an al-Qaeda safe house in Iraq, U.S. military officials recovered an assortment of crude drawings depicting torture methods like "blowtorch to the skin" and "eye removal." Along with the images, which you'll find on the following pages, soldiers seized various torture implements, like meat cleavers, whips, and wire cutters. Photos of those items can be seen here. The images, which were just declassified by the Department of Defense, also include a picture of a ramshackle Baghdad safe house described as an "al-Qaeda torture chamber." It was there, during an April 24 raid, that soldiers found a man suspended from the ceiling by a chain. According to the military, he had been abducted from his job and was being beaten daily by his captors. In a raid earlier this week, Coalition Forces freed five Iraqis who were found in a padlocked room in Karmah. The group, which included a boy, were reportedly beaten with chains, cables, and hoses.

So what does real torture look like? Don't continue if you have a weak stomach:

eyeremoval1.jpg


headvice1.jpg


ironskin1.jpg

Little Green Footballs links to a Newsbusters post that notes that only Fox News reported on the story. The rest of the MSM just couldn't find a few minutes in their news reports to let the American people know how al Qaeda members treat their detainees. Interesting, the media couldn't muster a little outrage about al Qaeda using full blown medieval torture, but they get their collective panties in a bunch about Abu Ghraib photos and water boarding. Unbelievable.

Don Surber writes: "And yet such false stories as the "flushed Koran" got widespread play in the newspapers and on television."

Michelle Malkin links to a report that says that Pfc Joseph Anzack, Jr., one of the three soldiers abducted by al Qaeda and who was recovered from the Euphrates river a few days ago, showed signs of possible torture.

The media, however, don't seem to care.

Update: Gina Cobb is also commenting:

For Congressional Democrats, it's all one big yawner. Their goal is to flee Iraq so that they can claim "victory" and win the next election before their bad choices come back to haunt us all.

Update II: Newsbusters updated its to say that CNN reported on the manual on Wednesday.

Update III: Lee Ward is so desperate to convince Americans that there is no terrorist threat that he's busy in the comments section of this post trying to convince Wizbang readers that I am the terrorist. Not al Qaeda who tortures innocent people and wreaks violence and chaos everywhere it can, but me because I dared to show the drawings from the manual. This is what Lee wrote in one of his comments:

ter·ror·ism (tr-rzm) NOUN:

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Kim's motivation is "ideological and political", and her intent is to coerce frightened people into supporting specific political ideologies and parties.

...but you don't have to allow yourself to be victimized by the Kim Priestaps and Fox News channels of the right wing -- you really don't.

Defeating "terrorism" starts by not allowing you yourself to be victimized by terrorists. You can start right here, and right now.

It really is that simple - but be forewarned, your government wants you to be terrified and afraid, so you'll have to be strong -- no crybabies allowed.


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Comments (82)

And where was the media cov... (Below threshold)

And where was the media coverage? Nowheres...not an article to be found.

They'd much rather focus on our terrible treatements in Abu Grahib, right? :P

Only Fox News is interested... (Below threshold)

Only Fox News is interested in doing our enemy's bidding and terrorizing Americans for them?

Gee, I'm surprised.

I guess, Lee, that means wh... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

I guess, Lee, that means when the media reports US and Civilians deaths daily if now hourly but hardly ever Insurgent deaths, they are doing the terrorists bidding?

I'm waiting for the condemn... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

I'm waiting for the condemnation from all those MSM media outlets that went 24/7 about Abu Gahrib and Gitmo 'tourtures' which in comparison appear to be humanitarian guestures... but I ain't holding my breath.

Lee, you're so vapid its painful to watch you post. Would you care trying to point out how pointing out the tourture methods AQ uses supports them?

Go ahead, we're all waiting.

Do you know the difference ... (Below threshold)

Do you know the difference between terror and violence, GMAC?

Sticking a knife in someone's eye is a violent act.

Sticking a crude drawing of a violent act in front of Americans to frighten them is a terrorist act.

If you don't understand what motivated Kim to post these graphic images, it's too late. You're a victim.

"I guess, Lee, that mean... (Below threshold)

"I guess, Lee, that means when the media reports US and Civilians deaths daily if now hourly but hardly ever Insurgent deaths, they are doing the terrorists bidding?"

No, but showing graphic illustrations of the deaths, as you remind them that that this will happen to their sons and daughters if they don't vote Republican, is doing the terrorists bidding.

This administration figured out a long time ago that they can stay in power by adopting terorism as a tool for their own use, a nd scaring the crap out of American voters and making them believe that if we don't do what Bush and Cheney have in mind - unspeakable acts of terrorist violence will be unleashed upon he streets of America.

I'm not saying Republicans want to stick a knife in your eye.

I'm saying Republicans want you to believe that terrorists will stick a knife in your eye if you don't re-elect Republicans to office.

The fact that the Republicans are doing the terrorists bidding and terrorizing Americans in secondary to the Republican drive to stay in power.

Kim is just doing her part to further cement that image in your minds. You really haven't figured out her game yet?

Lee, you're so vap... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Lee, you're so vapid its painful to watch you post. Would you care trying to point out how pointing out the tourture methods AQ uses supports them?

Well Gmac, don't you know that when Lee said this:

Only Fox News is interested in doing our enemy's bidding and terrorizing Americans for them?

What he is doing is following the John Edwards line where if you just pretend terrorism doesn't exist then you never have to think about it.

While Lee was enjoying his oblivious denial of the world around him someone (Fox News) flashed a reminder in front of him and it destroyed his "terrorist free happy place".

Don't worry though because men than are bigger and better than you Lee will keep you safe so your have the freedom to indulge in your liberal LA LA Land fantasies.

Do you know the difference between terror and violence

Wow, what a pussy. Drawings of torture (er...violent acts) is the REAL act of terrorism?

Next time just post....duh.....then move along. It has the same meaning as your original point.


JumpinJoe shows us that he ... (Below threshold)

JumpinJoe shows us that he doesn't know the difference between terrorism and violence.... are all conservatives that slow?

I'm saying Republi... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
I'm saying Republicans want you to believe that terrorists will stick a knife in your eye if you don't re-elect Republicans to office

and it sounds just as stupid when you try to explain yourself.

Clue Lee, those with boots on the ground found it and it's news worthy no matter how much it frightens you.

Also, seek help with your anxieties of being forced to vote Republican because of (so-called) right wing propaganda.

JumpinJoe shows us... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
JumpinJoe shows us that he doesn't know the difference between terrorism and violence.... are all conservatives that slow

Sloooooooow is thinking that printing newsworthy information is somehow related to pulling away potential Democrat voters because of a master "mind fuck" plan.

Must be that same mind game that got Democrats to vote for the war in Iraq in the first place.

Republican are soooo clever, don't you think?

Let me help out the slow jo... (Below threshold)

Let me help out the slow joes... who think "terrorism" is flying airplanes into buildings and acts of physical torture.

As a terrorism ultimately involves the use or threat of violence with the aim of creating fear not only to the victims but among a wide audience, it is fear which distinguishes terrorism from both conventional and guerrilla warfare. While both conventional military forces may engage in psychological warfare and guerrilla forces may engage in acts of terror and other forms of propaganda, they both aim at military victory. Terrorism on the other hand aims to achieve political or other goals, when direct military victory is not possible. This has resulted in some social scientists referring to guerrilla warfare as the "weapon of the weak" and terrorism as the "weapon of the weakest".

"Weapon of the Weakest" indeed,but so effective against those (like crybaby Boehnert) who are weak as well.

ter·ror·ism (tr-rzm) NOUN:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Kim's motivation is "ideological and political", and her intent is to coerce frightened people into supporting specific political ideologies and parties.

...but you don't have to allow yourself to be victimized by the Kim Priestaps and Fox News channels of the right wing -- you really don't.

Defeating "terrorism" starts by not allowing you yourself to be victimized by terrorists. You can start right here, and right now.

It really is that simple - but be forewarned, your government wants you to be terrified and afraid, so you'll have to be strong -- no crybabies allowed.

Kim, Thanks for the... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Kim,
Thanks for the detailed post about AlQ torture manual. And liberals have nothing to say about real torture by our enemies. The liberal left, as Ralph Peter pointed out today, ignore real atrocities by the terrorists, but will find any reason to criticize people who fight against the terrorists. What a corrupt movement! Lee Ward knows that he is defending a corrupt party and he is here just to distract from this despicable silence by the left.

So Pee you think making you... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

So Pee you think making yourself ignorant of enemy tactics is a smart way to conduct war? Hmmmm, you are dumber than a fence post.

This is the face of the terrorist, our enemy. This is the group that wants to bomb us in our office buildings and homes.

To blame the patriots who shared this bit of intelligence for the "terror" it may produce in people is ridiculous. We need more, not less, understanding of the enemy. That's how you beat them; that's how you win.

But we wouldn't suspect that Lee has much experience with winning.

It really is that simple - ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

It really is that simple - but be forewarned, your government wants you to be terrified and afraid, so you'll have to be strong -- no crybabies allowed.
------------------------------------------------
The liberal left wants you to be terrified of the US military so they will do anything to smear the military by equating "water boarding" to torture. At the same time, any exposure of the real torture of the terrorists is to be condemned as a scare tactics by the left. So predictable and so despicable. The liberal left is a corrupt movement and Lee Ward is another example of the liberal corruption.

Another question to ask... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Another question to ask

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_052507/content/01125118.guest.html
Did Dems Leak Intelligence to CBS?

"So Pee you think making... (Below threshold)

"So Pee you think making yourself ignorant of enemy tactics is a smart way to conduct war? "

Ignorant of enemy tactics?

You're saying readers of wizbang! weren't aware of what torture is until Kim posted these images?

Sure, Mitchell -- uh huh, whatever you say, pal.

I just love Lee's ostrich s... (Below threshold)

I just love Lee's ostrich strategy for victory.

Just stick your head in the sand, and the whole unfortunate situation just goes away!

I suppose Lee thinks that images of flames destroying the World Trade Center will 'terrorize' Americans, also.

Why yes, actually, they do.

That is why they call it 'terrorism', and if it doesn't concern you in the slightest that the avowed enemies of America want to do this to all of us, just vote for John Edwards.

The War on Terror is just a bumper sticker, after all.

So, Pee Pee, if we already ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

So, Pee Pee, if we already knew what was in the document Kim posted (your new assumption, apparently), then why criticize her for posting it.

Again, you are stupider than a concrete fence post.

Shrill shill, Lee, the Logician Magician!

"For Congressional Democrat... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"For Congressional Democrats, it's all one big yawner. Their goal is to flee Iraq so that they can claim 'victory'..." -- Gina Cobb

Nah, Gina, it's so other soldiers can avoid Pfc. Joseph Anzack's tortuous fate.

Kim's motivation i... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
Kim's motivation is "ideological and political", and her intent is to coerce frightened people into supporting specific political ideologies and parties

I actually braved reading some lefty blogs over the recent ABC News leak. The true lefties were thanking ABC for exposing the Government.

And yet here we are with actual material published by those we fight and Lee claims we have to hide it as to not sway potential Democratic Party voters in upcoming elections.

It really is just politics for you lefties. Thanks for sharing.

"why criticize her for p... (Below threshold)

"why criticize her for posting it."

Why criticize Kim for helping our enemy keep Americans terrorized? I dunno, it let's people like you and Jumpin' Joe show off your superior intelligence?

Or maybe because I'm doing my own little part to defeat our enemy; the one that wants us to live in constant fear of attack and torture.

Maybe you'd be more prone to believe me if I sobbed like a widdle baby? Would that convince you that I'm tough on terrorism?

if we already knew what was... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

if we already knew what was in the document Kim posted (your new assumption, apparently)
------------------------------------------------
If this is the case, then the liberals knew about real torture by the terrorists already and they were only interested in smearing the US military with "water boarding torture". This is worse! Liberals are actually trying to hide/ignore real torture by the terrorists and attack those who fight these terrorists.

Hmm... torturing, maiming, ... (Below threshold)

Hmm... torturing, maiming, and killing people is NOT terrorism.

Letting people see just how those tortures, maimings, and killings are carried out are terrorism.

I see a comparison. Two teenagers having sex is not a crime. Pictures of teenagers having sex is a crime.

J.

yes it is horrible...... (Below threshold)
nogo postal:

yes it is horrible...
and it is our troops over there that face the increasing potential of capture and this..
tour..after tour..after tour...
If you think returning a troop to his/her family and being spared this is lefty politics go ahead..
..oh I forgot..
we will let them torture our troops over there so we won't be tortured over here..

Or maybe because I'm doing ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Or maybe because I'm doing my own little part to defeat our enemy; the one that wants us to live in constant fear of attack and torture.
------------------------------------------------
And that 's why liberals have to constantly smear the US military with torture? Oh, liberals are actually trying to fight their enemy: George Bush and the US military.

Oops, liberals are actually anti-American!

we will let them torture ou... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

we will let them torture our troops over there so we won't be tortured over here..
-------------------------------------------------
That 's why 2000 American troops are scouting the country for the 2 American soldiers and kick the terrorists' butts in the mean time. Over here the Democrats are busy trying to cut the funding for the operations over there.

Nogo want to surrender, convert to Islam, and lives in total submission to AlQ.

Ward you are an idiot. Tho... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Ward you are an idiot. Those pictures in that training manual are violence. No, violence is what will happen when the terrorists get their hands on you, you stupid shit. If they use the vice on your head, they will find that will not work. They need a 50 ton press to compact your solid bone head. Terror is what you should feel every time the democrats try to surrender this nation to al Qaeda. You are obviously too fucking stupid to recognize danger to yourself. Under your kind of dictatorship, you should be hospitalized in a mental Ward. They could call it the Lee ward.

Interesting, the media c... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Interesting, the media couldn't muster a little outrage about al Qaeda using full blown medieval torture, but they get their collective panties in a bunch about Abu Ghraib photos and water boarding. Unbelievable.

Because we know that AQ does horrible things, and we know that they do not share our values, and however terrible it is, it is not surprising.

However, WE don't do that sort of thing. As Gen. Petraeus said, WE are supposed to take the moral high ground. And WE lose some of what America is when we attack them for not sharing our values, and then we start adopting some of theirs.

Just a few years ago, it was considered inconceivable that America would torture prisoners. Now you defend it by claiming "they do it worse". THAT is "unbelievable".

You're kidding, right? "Don... (Below threshold)
groucho:

You're kidding, right? "Don't continue if you have a weak stomach"? Do any of you really think Americans aren't aware that (insert name of bogey-man du jour here) aren't capable of some really heinous stuff? Hell, we even sold out our moral high ground to get in on the game. This, along with the earlier piece on Bawling Boehner shows how desperate the Bush apologist fanatics are getting. The drawings look like a middle schooler's fantasy doodling about what he'd like to do to his math teacher or his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend. What a joke.

"torturing, maiming, and... (Below threshold)

"torturing, maiming, and killing people is NOT terrorism."

Really? I wasn't aware of that. Interesting strawman argument Jay.

Terroring Americans with graphic images of violent, unspeakable acts of torture- yep, that's an act of terrorism. It's the use of fear - works the same way as waterboarding.

This is the reason that conservatives are so damned ineffective at fighting terrorism -- they don't understand it, and they are easily victimized by it because they don't understand it. Look at House Minority Leader Boehner -- sobbing like a baby.... VICTIM!

Here it is again, Jay. Ask your rubber ducky to help you with the big words...

ter·ror·ism (tr-rzm) NOUN:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Kim isn't breaking any laws, but the rest of the definition fits what she's doing to a "t'. In fact, she's helping the true law breaking terrorists by spreading their terror for them.

And she's doing it for political and ideological purposes, using terrorism tactics to instill fear for the purpose of coercing voters. It's classic.

Excuse me, I have to bawl like a baby now... be right back.

I dunno, it let's ... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
I dunno, it let's people like you and Jumpin' Joe show off your superior intelligence

An "easy button" certainly wasn't required to counter your lame point, that's for sure.

Or maybe because I'm doing my own little part to defeat our enemy; the one that wants us to live in constant fear of attack and torture

Right Lee, like the lefties don't use the terrorist's violent acts to make their point that we should leave Iraq now.

But print news that makes you think it's not in your political party's favor, then its just propaganda to influence voters.

Because we know that AQ doe... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Because we know that AQ does horrible things, and we know that they do not share our values, and however terrible it is, it is not surprising.

However, WE don't do that sort of thing. As Gen. Petraeus said, WE are supposed to take the moral high ground. And WE lose some of what America is when we attack them for not sharing our values, and then we start adopting some of theirs.
-------------------------------------------------
What a typical spin to justify a despicable intentional propaganda on behalf of the terrorists. So liberals think the people in the West need to be reminded how evil the US military is since they don't know that the US military use "water boarding"?

Brian 's logic: the US military is evil but people don't really know about it, so we have to publicize it widely for people to know. In the mean time, we don't want people to be reminded of how real evil the terrorists are.

Then they can claim that they are not doing the PR bidding of the terrorists. Brian's club is in action for the enemies of America.

I guess you are all proud o... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

I guess you are all proud of al Q's superiority in the trade of torture. If bush would have paid attention to what was predicted (see today's release of the pre invasion intelligence report) none of this would be happening, so blame it on the conservatives.

Right, where are all the pe... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Right, where are all the people who by now have seen/heard/read about the torture manual who are now "terrorized" or shocked into incapacity, as Lee imagines.

There are none. Nada. Only in Lee's little mind, where he is doing his "little part" (very little, as it turns out), do people become zombies because they inform themselves.

Little minds make for little sense.

Nogo, do you honestly think... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Nogo, do you honestly think al Qaeda is going to quit attacking us if we leave Iraq? Do you think they will stop because we have? We pulled out of South Viet Nam, and the South Viet Namese were doing a good job of defending themselves, which was the Nixon plan. Democrats, seeing the sucess of said plan defunded our allies in the South, costing millions of lives. They have never stood up to the responsiblity of that act. If they do it again and there is a similar outcome, we should hang every one of the murders from the many cherry trees in Washington DC. Given the choice, would it be better for a very few soldiers who volunteered to fight, face a rare happening, or would you subject American civilians to the tender hands of the terrorists. If they do not exist, what the fuck were those 6 in New Jersey doing? Why do 30 percent of young muslims think suicide bombings are OK? Maybe you are willing to live under Shuria law, I am not.

I guess you are all proud o... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

I guess you are all proud of al Q's superiority in the trade of torture. If bush would have paid attention to what was predicted (see today's release of the pre invasion intelligence report) none of this would be happening, so blame it on the conservatives.
-------------------------------------------------And you are very proud of the terrorist-cheering liberal movement you are in. Congratulations! Liberals do not care about TORTURE at all, that 's why they totally ignore real torture by the terrorists. Liberals only use TORTURE as a propaganda tool againts the US military and to distract from the real evil of the terrorists. Liberals care as much about the poor as the communists!

Again, the liberals speak on both sides of their mouth again today.

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010069.php
So Now They Believe Saddamists And Islamists Would Work Together?

Wow, LAI. You set a new rec... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Wow, LAI. You set a new record for "response most unrelated to the post that it purports to be responding to". You really should see a doctor.

I wonder, Lee, if the reaso... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

I wonder, Lee, if the reason you spend so much of your life on this blog is because you have so little success in the real world.

Here, a loser like you can get attention he just can't get in normal life and society.

This is what I suspect most of us here believe is the case. It is too bad you are wasting your efforts here, to so little effect.

As so many comment threads ... (Below threshold)

As so many comment threads do recently at Wizbang, this one will soon degrade down to the same four people arguing the same four viewpoints over and over again.

Hopefully there's a thought or two in the comment thread above that'll give you something to think about this Memorial Day weekend.

The brave men and women of our armed services didn't die so that Americans can stand around and cry like babies just because the forces of evil want us to live in fear.

Be Brave. The War on Terror starts between your ears. Defeat terrorism there and we're half way home.

Have a great weekend everyone.

I wonder, Lee, if the reaso... (Below threshold)
get yor gun:

I wonder, Lee, if the reason you spend so much of your life on this blog is because you have so little success in the real world.

Bingo DING DING DING We have a winner!!!!!

Lee is a lonely man, you can track him on any given day. Let us pray. *wink*

Wow, LAI. You set a new rec... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Wow, LAI. You set a new record for "response most unrelated to the post that it purports to be responding to". You really should see a doctor.
-------------------------------------------------
Thank you for admitting that you don't have any more args to make.

You are a spinner for a corrupt cause.

The brave men and ... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
The brave men and women of our armed services didn't die so that Americans can stand around and cry like babies just because the forces of evil want us to live in fear

I'm sure the brave men and women you seem to try and speak for didn't think, wow, this is some very significant information we found and justifies further "why we fight", but we better not tell anyone what we found as to not frighten the John Edwards voters.

Whatever.....buh-bye. Don't forget your John Edwards Memorial Day protest signs.

The brave men and women of ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

The brave men and women of our armed services didn't die so that Americans can stand around and cry like babies just because the forces of evil want us to live in fear.
-------------------------------------------------
And liberals want the people to live in fear of the US military because of their "water boarding".
Definitely, the brave men and women of our armed services didn't die so that the liberal terrorist-cheering leaders can claim that the war is lost every time the terrorists blow up more women/children.

Hey dumb as* they torture t... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Hey dumb as* they torture to intimidate and to kill, not for information. We torture for information. Don't you remember that for the last two years or more bodies have been found all over Bagdad with drill holes in the corpse's knee caps?

Those were Shia on Sunni murders. You know the guys we liberated.

PS, what was the prediction by McCain and others once the Abu-Grab-your-ankles photos were published?

Barney200, I can only concl... (Below threshold)
get your gun:

Barney200, I can only conclude that you sir are drunk. You post makes nooooooooo logical conclusions what so ever. Goodnight.*wink*

Hey dumb as* they torture t... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Hey dumb as* they torture to intimidate and to kill, not for information. We torture for information. Don't you remember that for the last two years or more bodies have been found all over Bagdad with drill holes in the corpse's knee caps?
-------------------------------------------------
Wonder why liberals keep doing the PR bidding for the terrorists?

Still the fact that liberals are so silent about real torture by the terrorists show that they don't really care about torture at all. They only use torture as a propaganda tool against the US military. Using Barney 's arg, liberals know what effect of showing those photos will have on the US military and yet they still do it. This is more despicable. Oops, liberals are ACTUALLY trying to smear and undermine the US military.
Barney, thanks for proving that point again.

Wonder why liberals keep do... (Below threshold)
get your gun:

Wonder why liberals keep doing the PR bidding for the terrorists?

No, the are satan soldiers. Anyone that has read the bible would know. Evil, you will know them by their words and deeds.*wink*

Sorry lovie I just thought ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Sorry lovie I just thought we were better than them. Now I know that I am but not you.

Sorry lovie I just thought ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Sorry lovie I just thought we were better than them. Now I know that I am but not you.
------------------------------------------------
Thank you for proving that you are here to spin for them. Yes you are better than them, the US military. And that 's why you have to ignore the real torture by the terrorist allies and harp on the evil US military. Oops, liberals DO think that they are morally superior to them, the US military. That 's why they have to expose the "water boarding" of the evil US military for all the world to see since the world doesn't know how evil the US military is.

In the mean time, what do you do? Ignore and make excuse for the terrorists. Have liberals advocate more troops to wipe out AlQ in Iraq and demand Sadr to be taken of. Barnie Lovie, your words and rhetoric show that you are doing the PR bidding for your allies in this war against them - Bush and the US military.

Sorry lovie I just thought ... (Below threshold)
get your gun:

Sorry lovie I just thought we were better than them.

Better than the terrorist? How can we tell. Your words are exactly the same.

Now I know that I am but not you.
Posted by: BarneyG2000

Snicker Snort Snort, Cuz Barney is the true patriot just ignore all the terrorist propaganda spewing from his mouth. By the way Barney2000, you know nothing about me. But you know whaqt son, I can track you words all over these internets. *wink*

"Have liberals advocate mor... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"Have liberals advocate more troops to wipe out AlQ in Iraq and demand Sadr to be taken of." lovie

Yea all the time. Just go look at all my comments today and back in Feb about Sadr. The Democrats and liberals always point out that Gen Ski said 300K soldiers would be needed. Just go read Cobra II. I can go on and on, but you wont listen.

I am just happy to prove you wrong. Again!

Yea all the time. Just go l... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Yea all the time. Just go look at all my comments today and back in Feb about Sadr. The Democrats and liberals always point out that Gen Ski said 300K soldiers would be needed. Just go read Cobra II. I can go on and on, but you wont listen.
--------------------------------------------------
Then when the liberal bloggers will wage the war against their corrupt terrorist-cheering leaders in Congress now? Barnie, you pointed out an example of a conservative blog waging war against Republican leaders.

Yup, should we withdraw our troops from the quagmire in Europe (Germany and the Balkans for example) and move them to Iraq now? Will the dems increase the funding for the IRaq war now? Looks like they are busy trying to cut funding and even force Bush to withdraw. They can pass a bill to force the withdrawal, so it wouldn't be too difficult to pass a resolution to demand Sadr to be taken care of, right?

If liberals can simply move beyond cheap talk and double talk, we would be able to see liberals waging war against the corrupt liberal leaders in Congress right now? The fact that liberals are silent on this issue as well as the real torture by the terrorists show that liberals are speaking on both sides of their mouth (as you have done in this thread several times already).

Odd. Why link to drawings w... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Odd. Why link to drawings when there are actual videos of unfortunate people having their fingers lopped off and skulls penetrated by drill bits and screwdrivers? They're still out there. The "...Defence of Democracies" neocon site can probably still lead you there. Truly nasty and (too?)sickening stuff.
Goya's etchings are more compelling than these drawings (they're not real people; makes a difference!).
I'm not questioning your intent. But if I were a pro-war die-hard, I'd link to the Real Deal. Nasty sh!t out there! REAL nasty! I'll never go back. Link to the beheading of the Korean guy.
ps: the older videos get, the more out of synch the audio is. Less immediate. Less wretchingly awful. Your psyche will be somewhat protected. I saw it fresh. Never felt more sorry for anyone in my whole life.

Oh yeah: the "back" picture... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

Oh yeah: the "back" pictures (photos).
N'ah. Too antiseptic. Dr. Goebbels would not approve.

bryanD, You should ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

bryanD,
You should get away from Ron Paul. But you do point out one truth about the adverse effect of the liberal PC policies/rhetoric on our military.

Just saw a good one here about a typical BS arg from liberals.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjI4MGY4NDM0ZWY0MDQ1MWExZmZkOTA2ODgzMzAxMDE=

Don't give us this BS that you want to redeploy to fight al Qaeda, when the truth is that you want to "redeploy" to NOT fight al Qaeda.

This manual demonstrates ju... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

This manual demonstrates just how ineffective al Qaeda's techniques are. If they really wanted to torture captives they would make them undress, pose in sexually explicit ways and then take photos of them. Apparently not even al Qaeda is prepared to go that far.

LoveAmerica Immigrant, <br ... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

LoveAmerica Immigrant,
Are those bold-faced fonts aimed at me? Anyway...

I can appreciate your elementary hawkishness. If the USSR were still extant you'd be a World Anti-communist League type. You strike me as Vietnamese, Taiwanese, or Cuban (just a guess, doesn't matter, let me know, sensor adjustment!).

I flirted with the John Birch Society, so I know the drill (still admire Welch; killer debater!)

The thing is: to buttress your position, look who you have to link to. NRO! (Is that all there is?)

Do you realize that everyone there (NR) owes their "job" to being the son of "Somebody"? (ALWAYS a bad sign!)
Lucianne>Jonah; Norman> John.
Ex: legacy "heavyweight" JPod:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1319 (legacy turds always screw things up though, luckily for freedom-loving folk! Regression to the Mean, anti-Darwinianism in action!)

OR: is a willing goyim investee in the NYC neocon network:
http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1205-editorial

Why link to a bunch of pantywaists? I could steal the lunch money from the whole office with one cold slap to one fat face. (Redneck moment! S'cuse!)

Plus: all their recent positions (for the sake of political viability) have changed. EXCEPT FOR THE WAR. (Israel/Aipac/PNAC)

NRO (since the purge of the paleocons) has been a mecca of Open-Borders, Chamber of Commerce, anything-for-Wall Street apologists.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/manion/manion23.html
Now that the War has turned south, and the Republican base has become disgusted, the lesser priorities (open borders, etc) have been relegated to the memory hole. Now, what's BAD about that is: NRO is doctrinally FOR open borders, but is now PRETENDING they are not.

The point is: they're lying skunks. (Check their archives.) The war is EVERYTHING.
Nothing wrong with Zionism, if that's what you desire. Of course, Zionism overrides Americanism.

That's a problem.

LAI:Let's get a Ro... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

LAI:

Let's get a Ron Paul wave going!

No IRS

No NEA

etc etc etc

I wonder, Lee, if the re... (Below threshold)
Brian:

I wonder, Lee, if the reason you spend so much of your life on this blog

Let's see...
LoveAmerica Immigrant: 14 posts
Lee: 9 posts

Oh, I forgot. Wizbang conservatives don't believe in statistics. Or even, apparently, counting.

Thank you for admitting ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Thank you for admitting that you don't have any more args to make.

I made my argument. You apparently lack the capacity to respond to it.

Lee: One little pr... (Below threshold)

Lee:

One little problem with your portrayal of Kim as a terrorist: she isn't threatening people, she's warning them. The difference: she is not the one who will be carrying out the violence.

This is a threat, Lee:

"I am going to drill a hole in your hand and gouge out your eye."

This is a warning, Lee:

"The people we are fighting -- and I want to continue fighting, but you want to run away from -- specifically train their people on drilling holes in your hand and gouging out your eyes. Here is the proof -- their own training materials. I prefer that our military fight them over there, rather than our civilians fight them here. Because if the latter happens, this is what you, I, and everyone else has to face."

Sheesh, even for you this is a stretch.

J.

I wish President Bush w... (Below threshold)
Rob LA Ca.:

I wish President Bush would put the criminal Rat Frauds on the axis of evil already. These traitorous lying cowards will never admit the obvious , The DictaRats want to rule this Country as if it was their birthright.

The democrat frauds are a broken record of blowhards giving each other undeserved praise for accomplishments that in fact are no where near being accomplished. Pelosi and the rest of the STOOGES looked like Used car salemen trying to brag about sales made when the dealership has yet to take in its first shipment of vehicles.

You know it's a bad day for the Rats perpetual fraud when it's leader can't find her perpetual grin. They need to have their heads put in a vise for betraying our Troops and our Country.

How sad that on Memorial Da... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter (still amused after all):

How sad that on Memorial Day weekend - of all times - that Lee Ward (and some others) would advocate FOR censorship of the media in the US.

Why fear reality so much that you would turn your back on the Bill of Rights?

I often don't like what is said by some of those taking the viewpoint expressed here, but I wouldn't call for them to be silenced as they appear to be doing with Kim.

Only by protecting the speech of those with whom you disagree can you protect your own freedom to speak in my opinion.

Whizbang jumped the shark b... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

Whizbang jumped the shark by giving Lee Ward a platform to propogate his jackassery.

Please, what were you people thinking?

I am puzzled Whizbangers. ... (Below threshold)
ec1009:

I am puzzled Whizbangers. Are you for torture or against it? Were you for it before you were against it? Please explain.

Dang, I thought I'd heard i... (Below threshold)

Dang, I thought I'd heard it all..
Lee is one of those Ko's kids. He's kool-aid drinker

If you can't see the hypocrisy within the media not only are you a kool-aid drinker you're an idiot.

Yep that was an insult and it was uncalled for but hey freedom of speech....

I for one, only believe in ... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

I for one, only believe in torturing liberals. I don't have the stomach for it, but it looks like the allies of the left, al Qaeda has provided a manual on how to do it effectively. America torture somehow does not seem harsh enough, too many liberals would like to be in a naked pile of men. That would be Lee Ward on the bottom, with Brian, BryanD and Barney, with Nogo and Weider bringing up the rear. Democrats must deny danger because they have no history of dealing with it..

bD, the perfect foil for pe... (Below threshold)
kim:

bD, the perfect foil for perfect American power:

The opposing non-uniformed warrior, knowing he will be waterboarded, housed, and fed upon capture will enter conflict easily.

The American soldier, knowing he will be tortured to the ennuyance of his captors, then killed, will enter conflict most cautiously.

Thereby insuring that the overwhelming power of the American military will only be used defensively, in a civil police manner, as it should be.
============================

ec1009 asked another typica... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

ec1009 asked another typical liberal BS question.

(1) Let 's say the terrorists were about to detonate a dirty nuke to wipe out an American city. You captured one of those terrorists, would you torture him to get the information to stop the bomb or you just sit there expounding your cheap liberal talking points?

(2) If liberals are truly against torture, they would have been condemning AlQ every day now to expose what kinds of enemies we are facing (just as they did with Abu Graihb). The fact that liberals don't mean that they don't care much about torture. They only use torture as a propaganda tool. Sorry show me the comparable action on the liberals' part. Otherwise, I have to treat as more cheap and despicable propaganda on behalf of the terrorists. Using liberal logic, liberals are for torture as long as they are used by enemies of America. More torture by the terrorists, the more liberals can blame Bush for making them angry!

Kim also pointed out the fa... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Kim also pointed out the fact that liberals tried to equate "water-boarding" with torture means that they are using torture as a propaganda. This is typical dishonest and despicable liberal propaganda.

bryanD, Your post s... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

bryanD,
Your post simply resorts to ad-hominen attack on NRO. Nothing worth responding to. Ron Paul is not worth the support any more once he crossed the line in advocating defeat for America. I used to like him, but simply cannot support him anymore.

Shorter bD: Dam joos.<br /... (Below threshold)
kim:

Shorter bD: Dam joos.
==============

Yeah, it won't stop until e... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

Yeah, it won't stop until everything is radio-active.

ec1009 asked another typica... (Below threshold)
ec1009:

ec1009 asked another typical liberal BS question.

(1) Let 's say the terrorists were about to detonate a dirty nuke to wipe out an American city. You captured one of those terrorists, would you torture him to get the information to stop the bomb or you just sit there expounding your cheap liberal talking points?

(2) If liberals are truly against torture, they would have been condemning AlQ every day now to expose what kinds of enemies we are facing (just as they did with Abu Graihb). The fact that liberals don't mean that they don't care much about torture. They only use torture as a propaganda tool. Sorry show me the comparable action on the liberals' part. Otherwise, I have to treat as more cheap and despicable propaganda on behalf of the terrorists. Using liberal logic, liberals are for torture as long as they are used by enemies of America. More torture by the terrorists, the more liberals can blame Bush for making them angry!

Posted by: LoveAmerica Immigrant at May 27, 2007 12:56 AM

LoveAmerica (I presume the name is meant ironically) trots out the ol' B movie scenario. Why do you presume he would be honest under torture? I got one for you and equally stupid. What if the terrorist said he would reveal the location of THE BOMB if you would only abort your fetus or rape your child, would you do it? Would you trust him or don't you care about saving American lives? See, I can be as silly as you.

Yes I hate Al Quiada, fuck you very much for asking. In fact, my anger directed at you people is motivated in large part by the fact that you share many of the same values as the terrorists.

I noticed that no one has answered my question. Are you for torture or against it?

ec100, I don't care... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

ec100,
I don't care if he is honest or not. If he is not honest, he will suffer pain to pay for millions of deaths. If he is honest, then millions of deaths will be saved. You still don't answer my questions. I will be for torture in this case and will not be ashamed of it. You are simply bluffing and hide behind the despicable rhetoric of the terrorist-cheering liberal left. Using your stupig logic, I assume that you would rather see millions of people killed to stay true to your cheap liberal talking points. Besides, you are simply lying about caring about torture. Why? People you liberals cheapened torture by equating it with "water boarding" and by your total silence about real torture by AlQ. You liberals are despicable by comparing the Us military to Nazi and Pol Pot etc...

I will treat liberals as liars until I see strong condemnation of AlQ days in and out in the next several years (at least comparable to the propaganda service liberals provided for the terrorists wrt Abu Graib and Guantanamo). You guys are simply bluffing and lying to cover up your desire to see the US win even when the terrorists win.

Bin Laden acheived v... (Below threshold)
ec1009:


Bin Laden acheived victory over you.
You certainly are terrorised into being a morally bankrupt simpering fool.
Stay away from sharp objects and politics.

Bin Laden acheived victory ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Bin Laden acheived victory over you.
You certainly are terrorised into being a morally bankrupt simpering fool.
-------------------------------------------------
Liberals are doing exactly what Bin Laden expected of you. Again using your stupid logic, you would rather see miliions of death to stick to your cheap liberal talking points.

Again, you are not afraid of the terrorists, so you would be willing to ignore their true tortures? Is that your logic now? So liberals considered the US military far more dangerous than the terrorists and that 's why they had to slander the US military all these years? How can you look yourself in the mirror?

You are simply bluffing to cover up your lack of arg. You certainly are being deceived into being a morally bankrupt simpering fool.

YOU ARE A DUMB TOOL... (Below threshold)
ec1009:

YOU ARE A DUMB TOOL

YOU ARE LOUD, but you can't... (Below threshold)
kim:

YOU ARE LOUD, but you can't define torture. Just try. You're not a tool, you're a pampered pet bird in a gilded cage. Can you not think of a scenario in which you would deliberately inflict pain on someone?

The perfect foil for perfect American power:

The opposing fighter, knowing he'll be waterboarded, fed and housed if captured will enter conflict easily.

The American soldier, knowing he will be tortured to the ennuyance of his captors, then killed, will enter battle most cautiously.

Thus, American military power will only be used defensively, in a civil police manner.
========================================

I can't tell if Lee is just... (Below threshold)
Tim in PA:

I can't tell if Lee is just playing word games, or if he's just another lefty who can't seem to grasp the definition of "terrorist". It isn't simply "someone who scares people" - it's a non-state actor who attacks non-military targets for the purpose of political coercion. It isn't a value judgement, it's a tactic.

(Please excuse mis-types, E... (Below threshold)
Mao Ma4Ding:

(Please excuse mis-types, ESL causes some difficulties, and my PDA has limited resources/editing space...)

Lee, your argument has a major flaw:

From your post (note the starred section):

LEE:
"ter·ror·ism (tr-rzm) NOUN:
*The unlawful use* or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons"

Here is the difficulty:
1. All that is required is for the CIC (C*ommander-I*n-C*hief) to issue a command directive, (atleast that is the near-ist English for the equivalent in the army I was used to...), and then it is *legal*.

2. The Geneva Conv. doesnt apply, as terrorist, *by cause of their own self-definition* are not covered.

3. Regardless of the Supreme Courts rulings in the matter, SC saying so doesnt make it so. If you have confusion concerning this, read the documental commentarymof the Founding Fathers. Madison particularly. I have, (to help my English writing skills...). It amazed me, as I studied for Citizenship how ignorant US citizens are, as a group, of the Founding of their Republic, and the Governing Rules thereof.

NB: If GWB hd the balls God gave to a hen, he would:
1. protect The Presidency from encrouchment by Congress.
2. protect his powers to fullfil his obligation to "Protect and Defend the Constitution from enemies BOTH foreign and Domestic"

-Mao Ma4Ding

At times when I read blogs,... (Below threshold)
Rubicon:

At times when I read blogs, I am amazed how many can get totally off topic or try to create straw man points to deflect attention from facts.
Kim pointed out facts. The MSM failed to point out those facts. Yet when facts (disgusting as they are) show Americans in a bad light, the MSM is all too willing to show facts. Why?
In truth, if your loved ones lives were in direct danger, any and all of you would use torture or physical coersion to get info to save them. To assert otherwise is totally disingenuous, or you could care less about those supposedly close to you.
Abu Ghraib was wrong because it was done for fun. There was no immedoate danger or threat to justify tormenting the individuals involved. Otherwise there would have been no time for camera's and antic's.
However, if danger is readily apparent & lives can be saved, its tough to say "gee I wish you would cooperate and not murder my friends, family, & innocents," and just walk away because the holder of info says "no way."
The threats launched against America by those who have declared themselves our enemies, cannot be ignored. Those threats & actions against us were launched long before we were bombing Iraq or any number of other supposed provocations.
These issues are NOT Republican versus Democrat. The political atmosphere has nothing to do with defending ourselves. Making all Republicans war mongers or all Democrats terrorist sympathizers, is stupid.
Was Iraq a threat? Yes, and no! Was it wrong to go in? Yes, and no! Is it wrong to stay there? Yes, and no! Should we walk away with no stability in place? Only history will show which decision was right or wrong.
Calling President Bush a liar on all things, is just as stupid as calling John Edwards a fag.
Bush really did have reason to believe the intel was accurate & any who are honest know that.
A Senate investigation has just tagged Joe Wilson a liar, along with his wife. She told Congress she had nothing to do with his assignment, yet memo's now revealed show she made the case for his trip. The Iraqi's did try to get yellow cake, they just could not agree on price, at the time!
Its time we all looked at this entire affair with a little more objectivity and concern for this nation & its people. To do so means we will also be concerned about those caught in the crossfire!




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