Sadly, few today are willing to learn from History.

They'd rather live with Hillary.

Lincoln was hated even after he was killed. Reagan was despised by many until he was dead. People can't stand others who are productive and succeed, especially the weak and ignorant ones. They prefer to whine and complain instead.

Bush has squandered his political capital with his actions on dealing with the massive invasion of illegal immigrants. His desire to import Mexico's illiterate and poor, thus making the welfare roles explode while at the same time killing Social Security. They want bodies to help pay into it, but they are importing bodies that will do nothing but run it faster into bankruptcy.

Meanwhile Bush lets border patrol agents rot in prison on trumped up charges while illegal alien drug dealers get green cards.

Bush has lost all credibility with me and many others on his lack of securing the borders and selective enforcement of our laws.

Not one name is cited to the disparaging remarks hurled at Bush- Lazy? Incompetent? Both? Maybe one the Examiner editors was on a smoke break.

Likening Bush to Lincoln is like likening a slug to Albert Einstein.

Lorie: Why is it that, with so many conservative writers, pundits, etc., if one are really pissed off with President Bush inre the Immigration issue, one is "attacking" him??? This notion is patently absurd.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say the President has lost "all credibility" with me, I have to agree somewhat with what BillyBob is saying. My break with the President is on Immigration. Period. I still support him as my President, and I believe in the fight against Islamist terrorism is paramount. That hasn't changed.

I must also say to Roy that I think comparing Bush to Lincoln is inappropriate. Bush is, in part, siding with those who support the current immigration protocols because it provides a steady stream of "affordable" labor. It's my opinion that supporting Latino-centric immigration for this purpose quite frankly reeks of a "wink-wink/nudge-nudge" acceptance of Slavery. Whether you're running a chicken processing plant, reaping a harvest, or simply looking for help managing that McMansion that is far too big for you to manage on your own, wanting the cheap labor status quo to continue is to advocate for Slavery.

Forgetting all the good done, and what it cost Dubya, just because he wssn't everything you wanted on an issue where he stayed true to what he always said, and which was never a problem before?

Well, that's just low and classless, langtry. It just reminds me of why so many great people refuse to run for office. People like you will desert them in a heartbeat, even if they give you almost everything you want.

IMIO, Bush is greater than Lincoln. And I am not the only one who thinks so with reason.

A different take: Bush is slowly succumbing to pussification on immigration to purposefully give the GOP Congressional folks an easy way to break from him during the 08 campaigns.

If they were smart, the GOP'ers would be all over the media bitching about Bush on immigration and fighting amnesty (as the base wants them to do).

Bush (either willingly or not, honestly) is handing them a gift.

They should take it. The fact that they haven't only points to how out of touch they are.

Either way: vote Fred!

I like Fred, Yo, but what are his stated positions on the issues?

I have not seen them yet, and just maybe we should see where he actually stands, before giving Fred the vote.

I'm not fully aware of all of Fred!s views, either.

I know that when he was in charge of air traffic control at Dulles, he was a stubborn hard ass, but came around eventually.

He was thoughtful and intelligent while he was a naval commander.

And, his work as a DA in New York was superb.

Granted, all of those are rather imaginary roles, but they aren't any less real than what Obama or Edwards are pushing.

Forgetting all the good done, and what it cost Dubya, just because he wssn't everything you wanted on an issue where he stayed true to what he always said, and which was never a problem before?

DJ: Did you read my post??? I wrote the following in it ...

My break with the President is on Immigration. Period. I still support him as my President, and I believe in the fight against Islamist terrorism is paramount. That hasn't changed.

"IMIO, Bush is greater than Lincoln. And I am not the only one who thinks so with reason."
DJ Drummond

OMG, it's time to get the men in white coats.

George Packer, in a New Yorker article comments on what a great week, I think the 330th of his Presidency, that Bush had, but that it and all of the good things Bush has done and that a messy Middleast will be Bush's legacy. I have an alternative proposition and that is that the Middle East has always been a mess, and that the only way it will become not a mess, and that is inevitable eventually, is through the sort of process of empowering the people through democratization as Bush has envisioned. So, eventually, the verdict of history will be favorable to Bush.

Domestically we never had it so good. Internationally, except for the heartbreaking sacrifices of a few volunteers, we're doing well, and the adults worldwide recognize that and envy it.

Bush is CEO of the world and adding stakeholder value daily, even for the sullen. Cheney is his COO. Unless the board of directors finds adequate replacement, sell.
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Langtry, are you familiar with this quote by Lincoln?

"If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."

From a letter to Horace Greeley, 1862

Lincoln hated Slavery, without a doubt. Yet his actions were indisputably based in the real world, and in Politics.

DJ:

Lincoln hated Slavery, without a doubt. Yet his actions were indisputably based in the real world, and in Politics.

I am aware of that distinction in Lincoln's stand on slavery. I am aware he wasn't pure in his intent to end slavery. I wish I could say we have come further than advocating a kind of slavery for purely political reasons in this, the 21st Century.

Lorie,

I visited the Lincoln Presidential Museum this April in Springfield, Illinois. There was an exhibit called the "hall of whispers" with all the quotes from the pundits of the day and I was positively astonished when reading it. You could lift those words about Lincoln, spoken by his 'haters', and they would match up almost exactly with the words spoken today by the Bush haters.

Bush has a mind-boggling level of criticism to deal with daily but I think Lincoln had more because his contemporaries even went after Mrs. Lincoln in the press. Not so much at Laura.

But generally, nothing changes. Ever.

Its foolish to compare Prez Lincoln with Prez Bush, neither could assume the coats of the other except in greatness.

Also I have great admiration for Prez Bush for the media bashing that few could endure. However its time for him to go, not impeachment/conviction, just retire. The past episodes of this year are painful to conservatives and harmful to the country...

Bush greater than Lincoln? That is the absolute ultimate in delusion. Good God man, get some help!

"Domestically we never had it so good. Internationally, except for the heartbreaking sacrifices of a few volunteers, we're doing well, and the adults worldwide recognize that and envy it."kim

You are one f**king sick twit; the sacrifices of a few volunteers! That sort of minimalization is exactly what makes you a harpie bwitch.

Bushie hater, do you know how to conduct a war without losing any soldiers on your side, or any non-combatants?

"That sort of minimalization is exactly what makes you a harpie bwitch"

Is our children learning? at June 5, 2007 04:11 PM

you'd prefer the heart-wrenching murders of a few thousand involuntary folks, mr. potty mouth?

Why does it not surprise me that Drummond is first-in on this discussion with the obligatory false-choice strawman argument?

Since Drummond is so fond of quoting history (at least when it suits him), I would ask him think back to the presidency of Richard Nixon, and to consider what the effects of his decidedly anti-conservative policies, specifically the 1971 "New Economic Policy" (e.g. wage and price fixation), diplomatic recognition of the PRC, and the creation of EPA, had on his base of support, and whether that made any difference when Watergate came a-knocking.

Sure, DJ would say, Nixon won in a landslide in 1972, but that was primarily because the Donks put forth an absolutely abysmal nominee (in George McGovern), thus practically guaranteeing a second Nixon term. However, when the Watergate hounds started baying, Nixon found he had exactly ZERO support from his voting base around the nation, primarily because he had been pissing on them from on high for the last four years of his presidency.

Any of this sound familiar?

I'm not saying that 43 is going to be impeached; what I am saying is that 43 has seriously broken faith with the people that elected him on one primary reason - the security of the nation. Allowing this amnesty bill to pass is, and will continue to be in the future, a direct threat to the security of this nation. And anyone who points this fact out has been characterized by 43 and his cronies as a bigot, a racist, or as someone who doesn't have the good of the nation at heart.

But heaven forfend anyone speaking ill of 43 on any point, for the Wrath of Drummond will descend from on high with the Hillary card ready and waiting to be sprung on the unsuspecting 43-basher. After all, the 43-worshippers evidently have a Jealous God, a God who is not to be mocked in their presence without penance to be paid.

IMIO, Bush is greater than Lincoln. And I am not the only one who thinks so with reason.

Posted by: DJ Drummond at June 5, 2007 12:42 PM

Based on the above, I would suggest to Kevin and Jay Tea that DJ Drummond is utterly out of his frakkin' tree, and needs to have the keys taken away.

Considering the BS that Bush has had to endure from the first days of his Presidency. What he has accomplished during both his terms, in spite of the nay sayers who populate both houses of congress as well as most of the MSM, the continual misrepresentations to the public as to what has been accomplished and what is intended to be accomplished. Inspite of idiots like JFO (which stands for Just F-cking Odd)and the lefty posters here and elsewhere. Bush does not need defending. Actions speak louder than words. With Clinton, we go words and attack after attack. Which Bush we got action. Bin Laudin now lives in relative discomfort, knowing every day their is a price on his head and each day could be his last. Bush has done what every President swears to do, and few actually do. He has defended this country, no matter what idiots write here or elsewhere. All for less pay than Edwards spends on haircuts.

I am not "comparing" Bush to Lincoln.

I AM comparing the types of things that were said about Lincoln with the kinds of things said about Bush - and they are nearly identical.

What Sandburg's biography shows clearly is that even for a President widely considered the greatest ever since George Washington, vitriolic personal attacks are to be expected. Clearly, what passes for the conventional wisdom among politicians, pundits, the media and, in particular, political opponents, at a time of crisis is not a load star by which great leaders should be guided for it is often wrong.

The point of my piece is to remind those who supported the President's decision to invade Iraq of this historical fact and place the current definition of conventional wisdom in context. Bush was right to invade Iraq and depose Saddam; he is right to stay there and finish the job of replacing Saddam with a new Iraq along the lines he as outlined many times.

Oh, and a quick note to MyPetGloat, none of the "disparaging remarks" in my column were directed at Bush; they were all directed at Lincoln. I thought that was pretty clear in the piece but in either cases, I have provided the source for my column - Sandburg's biography of Lincoln. There is only so much you can do with a 750 word limit but if you want to attach specific names to specific "remarks" simply read through the chapters that cover the period between 1863 and the election of 1864.

Historian, and poets, will be good to Bush.
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I agree with Billy and JFO..Bush lost his credibility with most of US because of his immaturity of handling things.He failed in Immigration Bill,Iraq war and global warming..
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