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No Mas

I've been a staunch opponent of illegal immigration for years. I loathe it, I loathe the mechanisms that have spawned it, I loathe those who exploit it, I loathe everything about it.

And I deeply, deeply loathe the current illegal immigration bill.

But, at heart, I am a pragmatist. I have no stomach for tilting at windmills.

I suspect the "fix" is in and the current proposal will pass, in some form or another. I am pretty much resigned to it.

I acknowledge that dealing with all the illegal aliens here now is pretty much impossible, especially given the current political climate. But can we at least do something to make sure that the hemorrhaging at our borders is checked in some small degree?

When the Immigration and Nationality Acts of 1965 were passed, we were promised that they would put an end to illegal immigration -- at that time, about 200,000 per year.

In 1986, 21 years after everything was supposed to be fixed, the illegal immigrant population was pegged at around six million. So we passed another immigration reform law that was supposed to make everything all better.

Now, another 21 years have passed since we took care of the illegal immigration problem, and we have anywhere from six to 20 million illegals. Let's split the difference and call it 13 million.

All I ask for is a few simple things from any immigration bill:

1) Some measures that at least pretend to staunch the flow of illegals across the border;

2) Some sort of promises that this might actually work, and not lead to having to deal with two to sixty times as many illegals in another 21 years.

I'm not even asking for guarantees. I know better than that, when dealing with politicians. Just give me a fig leaf, a plausible lie that I can pretend to accept.

Is that too much to ask for?


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Comments (33)

"Hemorrhaging" - good word ... (Below threshold)

"Hemorrhaging" - good word for it.

How about a sunset provision for the Z visas if the number of those illegally here ever rises above a certain level?

Solution is simple.<p... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Solution is simple.

$5k fine per month and 6 months in jail, per illegal for any employer that hires them.

If we stop the demand, the supply will ultimately be cut.

Also, why not charge illegals $10,000 for a temporary work visa, (a coyote costs what, 6k?), have them pay the max tax rate, and render then ineligible for ANY govt benefits.

It's just insane. I'm digu... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

It's just insane. I'm digusted. Thoroughly disgusted that only a handful of our "leaders" are willing to do anything meaningful from illegal immigration to Social Security.

But I wonder how effective ... (Below threshold)
Robert the Original:

But I wonder how effective it would have been anyway.

Another way to look at this is as a black market in labor, not to slight anyone.

Black markets thrive when there is a shortage and/or when there is a significant price difference. From the point of view of both the illegal and the employer there is a significant profit motive, unless one thinks that it would be cheap to get those Vermonters down to the pickin' fields.

So the market forces of profit have lined up against enforcement once again. Can anyone remember the last time enforcement won? Prohibition? War on drugs?

They will come by boat and by tunnel. Forging factories will spring up aided by their government. Valid papers will be mailed back to brothers in law. With an army, we might slow it a little.

But stop it? No way, Jose.

And we have not even talked about the million Mounties line.

Instead of talking about amnesty I think we should be talking services. Free services to illegals are things we can control (with computers), at least somewhat, and should do,

Many have screamed about drugs and we have spent billions - and clogged the jails - not yet having put so much as a dent in it. A spectacular failure.

What makes you think this would be any different?

Measures that at least pret... (Below threshold)
Jim in Cleveland:

Measures that at least pretend? That sounds like a liberal. This bill is a product of the "do something" disease." Why on earth does reform have to be "comprehensive"? The main problem with this bill (not that there is only one) is that it "pretends" to address the issue. If we are not able to locate all 12 million illegal aliens now, why will the passage of this bill changed that? Bills should not pretend to do anything.

On the good side, Jay Tea does not blame the Catholic Church on this issue. Or at least he didn't say he does.

Gianni is close - I've alwa... (Below threshold)

Gianni is close - I've always figured 10k a day for each day an illegal is employed. 10 or more charges, and 5 years in jail is also on the table.

Cut it off at the source. When there is no longer a demand, this will cease to be an issue.

I am disgusted with the "ma... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

I am disgusted with the "make pretend" measure the senate is working on. I have been around the block a few times and when a bill comes to the floor without a committee report, no hearings, then there is something up with it. I do not want to demean my yankee brothers and sisters but in Texas, we see the costs of this problem everyday, everywhere. Health risks and healthcare are up, crime is up. Gang activity up. Clinics overloaded. Communication cannot happen with the mexican population for the most part.

If you want to go after business, I agree but also homeowners who use the landscaping and maid service.

My government is failing me on this issue big time. ww

Six to twenty million? Si... (Below threshold)
RG:

Six to twenty million? Six????

Look folks, let's be blunt. Illegal immigration is basically about one thing - the corrupt, narco-nation of Mexico. It's about transferring American wealth to Mexico. That's what remittances are for. That's why out government allows it.

Illegal immigration is Latino-preference; that's what it's about. ICE officials have even spoken off the record saying if they get calls from local police, they ask if the name of the illegal. If it's a Latino sounding name, they don't pick 'em up. What does that tell you?

The Bush/Rove plan is a friggin joke. They don't want to enforce the law on Latinos and consequently Latinos now feel like they have carte blanche to break our laws. The jig is up on Jorge and Karl.

I agree the fix is in. The... (Below threshold)
superdestroyer:

I agree the fix is in. The only thing to plan on now is the country where your children and grandchildren can immigration after the U.S. becomes Mexico City north. If Vermont (and other New Englang States secede) the choice could be easy.

Maybe Las Vegas can establish a pool where we can bet on when kidnappings for profit start in LA, the last non-hispanic leaves Los Angeles County, or when the Republican party collapses under the coming demographic avalanche.

Who put these genuises (Sen... (Below threshold)
Mark:

Who put these genuises (Senators) in charge of something as important as immigration policy? Oops we did.......

Thankfully this is the process that will soon "FIX" the simple problem of healthcare for each and every one of "US.

Thinking on the issue, I'm ... (Below threshold)
DJ:

Thinking on the issue, I'm always reminded of this environmentalist video : immigration video

This immigration bill reminds me of our tax code. When you let a bunch of politicians decide whats "best" for you, you wind up with something like the IRS and our tax code. Immigration and INS are going to become the same lumbering bohemoth the IRS is, neither being the model of efficiency. Maybe thats their goal, complicate/obfuscate the matter so much that the average person thinks they're securing our border, when in fact, a loophole exists for nearly all circumstances.

I think Drudge reported yes... (Below threshold)
nehemiah:

I think Drudge reported yesterday that soon the most common boy's name in the UK will be "Mohammed".

In California, I believe the most common name is already "Jose".

Mark asked who put these "geniuses" in charge. Well, partly the illegals themselves, aided by a Democratic party that says any "barrier" to voting is not acceptable (even presenting an I.D). Our country is going to hell in a handbasket soon unless we force the stoppage of illegal immigration, the Democratic party, the communists (ANSWER), environmentalists, animal fanatics (PETA), ACLU. Too big of a job for one man. We need warriors.

Amazing that there is still... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:

Amazing that there is still anyone left that thinks hey are going to solve the "immigration" problem with fences and visas.

Laughable.

Given the state of affairs (include, poverty, technology, greedy politicians, mobility etc) the white man in the US of A is realizing his grip on calling himself superior is eroding. SOme may call it the fall of the American empire. Others may call it a levee in need of repair. Most won't call it what it is. Unstoppable.

A remaking of the color and makeup of this country has already passed the tipping point. What needs to be addressed now is who is going to be paying for the infrastructure to support the babies born to the illegals. Then we need to deal with how the white man will have to learn to accept the change in his status. That's the howling you are hearing now. It too shall pass.

Any new immigration law dea... (Below threshold)
GeminiChuck:

Any new immigration law dealing with illegals should never address citizenship nor greencards. Should only contain: (1) Temp guest worker with annual renewal - plus large fee if they want to have a family member with them, (2) solid (real) border shut down except at points of entry, (3) actual enforcement of existing laws. I also fully agree with the others here to a huge fine/punishment for anyone hiring an illegal - then we wont have to worry about rounding them up - they'll just go back home. gc

Congress became a den of th... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Congress became a den of thieves in the 60's and have been playing soothe my ego poker with your money since. Now they have moved up and the stake in their game is 'your' life. Think they care about anyone or anything except their vision of 'power' for themselves, you are a fool. It started with the criminal Kennedy's and they are still involved.

ha... (Below threshold)
wetbackhaitian:

ha

For those that think that i... (Below threshold)
nehemiah:

For those that think that it is somehow physically next to impossible to control the border, I point you to the southern border of Mexico with Guatemala (I've been to both countries). There are two things the Mexican government does better than the U.S. One is they stop illegal crossing of their southern border much much much better than the U.S. The second is that they speak Spanish a little better than our officials, but our officials are trying hard (will be required to get elected soon).

civil behavior's racist rem... (Below threshold)

civil behavior's racist remarks should be ignored. Get off your high horse, CB. It has nothing to do with race for anyone here but you.

Lot's of whawhaaaing going ... (Below threshold)
megan:

Lot's of whawhaaaing going on.
That fig leaf is 'pretend' too.
There is no fig leaf, the borders of this
country disappeared back in the '60s.
With the new intercontinental highway going in,
the chinese will find it easier to reach Canada
on their drive across America.
And to all those who delight in the demise of this
country, there's no where left for you to run to
either. Your date with the alligator is still on.

What I can not understand i... (Below threshold)
Wetbackhaitian:

What I can not understand is how we got into this situation in which we have a Republican President, Senate Minority Leader, the top three Republican contenders (including Romney)as well as a third to one half of Republican Senators who are all amnesty supporters.

Did they change their position while in office, or did we vote for them without investigating them on this issue. I don't recall Gov. Bush being asked any questions about the border during his first campaign.

Prayer in school, the sanctity of marriage, gun rights, and bringing back dignity to the WH were the topics of discussion then.

Had we focused on his position on illegal immgiration then as we did on his position on the above mentioned items, he would have been "found out."

Listen, we slept at the wheel and awoke in time to see the clift, but it's still too late.

All the calling won't amount to much now. Senate Republicans knew how the base felt about CIR last year and it still passed CIR with Frist at the helm.

For those who argued last year, "No bill is bgetter than a bad bill," you've gotten exactly what you wanted: No bill last year and a bad (worst) bill this year.

Bill O'Reilly: But do yo... (Below threshold)
Your TV:

Bill O'Reilly: But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you're a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have. In that regard, Pat Buchanan is right. So I say you've got to cap with a number.

Bill O'Reilly - 5/30/07

You can make your voice hea... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

You can make your voice heard by your House member and Senators.
Pick up the damn phone and use it.
Got a connection to the internet?
I know you do...

USE IT TO CONTACT YOUR REPRESANTATIVES.

Stop damn whinning and DO something.

Sometimes you people make me wretch with your pathetic "We're so helpless in the face of overwhelmong opposition" laments

Get a freaking clue and get on it NOW.
Do it at the national level now but become proactive at a local and state level about enforcement and deportation also.

If you're tired of the drain on your wallet for supporting 'free' services let the politicians know there's a price to be paid for supporting this measure.

The Dem's found out in '94 what supporting gun control could do, let them ALL know what supporting this will do in no uncertain terms.

I believe we should have s... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

I believe we should have shoot to kill orders on our southern borders.

I believe that NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT EVER should be allowed to get citizenship, since, technically, they are a felon.

I believe English should be the'national' language, and IF a company chooses to have a press 2 for Spanish, then, we shouldnt disrespect the Koreans, Chinese, Russians, Italians, germans, etc, so we have press 3 for, 4 for, 5 for, etc etc etc.

COngress is a bucnh of friggin sell outs, the (D) and (R) only give a damn about reelection and their own pockets.

WE the people need to take back control, and step 1 should be to stop all felons from illegally crossing our borders, and taking jobs Americans could do.

Gmac:Save your per... (Below threshold)
Wetbackhaitian:

Gmac:

Save your persuasions for Pelosi. She's the only person who can stop this bill now. If she meant what she said when she said the bill would not be considered without 70 Republican votes, it's DOA.

Then again, she also said President Bush would ahve to accept a timetable of withdrawal, or else and we all know how that turned out.

Civil disbehavior- I will t... (Below threshold)
Kat:

Civil disbehavior- I will take the bait. Does that mean, I, as a white man, can get affirmative action now? As in government handouts, preferential treatment in hiring or contracts, test scores into college.... hmmm? Or are you and your buddies going to ride our backs into infinity.

shoot to kill? Bull Connor,... (Below threshold)
Wetbackhaitian:

shoot to kill? Bull Connor, is that you?

How do you "deport" 12 mill... (Below threshold)
Peter:

How do you "deport" 12 million illegals?

Easy.

No more jobs. (Romney's proposal)

No more FREE STUFF - education, medical care etc.

Immediate deportation of lawbreakers who are identified as illegals - from speeding tickets and jaywalking on up.

Wet,How would an A... (Below threshold)
Gianni:

Wet,

How would an American be treated if he snuck across the border into Iran, NKorea, hell, even southern Mexico?

We have the sovereign right to defend our turf. Instead, the looney arse libs are putting water stations so the felonious illegals sneaking across our border can have a drink. Im surprised the treehuggers havent complained about all of the trash the wetbacks leave behind, or the grass, etc that gets trampled and killed as they sneak into our nation.

You can get the numbers and... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

You can get the numbers and/or email addresses of your home state senators here:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Call the Republican National Committee at (202) 863-8500 (option 1) and let them know you will not support any candidate in 2008 who votes for the amnesty bill in the Senate

Free Fax; http://www.numbersusa.com/faxcenter

Contact the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee here:

Phone (202) 224-2447
Fax (202) 969-0354

and do the same thing.

"Save your persuasions for Pelosi." ummm... in a word? NO
She neither represents me nor my state so I have made my opinion known to my House representative and both senators. Fortunatly both of my senators are in the forefront of opposition to this clusterf**k, unfortunatly my representative used to be a 'Blue Dog' but has seen fit of late to have his nose firmly buried in Nancy's posterior.

If you are having trouble g... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

If you are having trouble getting through the Capitol switchboard to express your opinion about the Amnesty bill, there's a special hotline number you might like to try.

1-800-417-7666. (English number)
1-800-882-2005. (Spanish number)

As the world changes from w... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:

As the world changes from white to brown blend, from English to multilingual, from national to global the superior race is crying foul.

How dare "those people" ask us to share in the bounty we balanced on their backs and their resources? How dare they think they can integrate themselves by working for low wages just to have a chance at a better life? How dare they presume to change the status quo because the status quo required their hard work at low wages? How dare they?

How dare some asshole like ... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

How dare some asshole like un-civil behavior be allowed to stay out of jail for being a frigging lawbreaker hiring wetbacks.

How dare those agricultural... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:

How dare those agricultural CORPORATIONS or those meat packing CORPORATIONS or those construction CORPORATIONS ot those hospitality CORPORATIONS not be allowed to hire those wetbeacks?

How dare we ask them to pay a living wage to those white boys looking for a job washing dishes or picking tomatoes or diggin ditches?

How dare we think those CORPORATIONS haven't bought their elected officials enough to continue breaking the law to bring Jhow the conveniences to which he has become so accustomed at a low price?

Dang, those wetbacks need to allow all Jhow's friends the opportunity to be exploited.

Stupid foooolish Americanos.




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