Still three hundred million opinions about immigration. Still not demagogued. Give it time.
================================

There are a lot of people who hate this bill and everyone associated with it.

Others, like me, respect some of the people involved, like Dubya and Senator Kyl, but wonder how they could get sold on this thing.

I have found a few folks willing to try this bill and see if it works, but no one - anywhere - in the real world who is love with this thing,

You don't s'pose someone spiked the D.C. water again, do ya?

And linking to Malkin on this Rabies-inducing issue is, well, just a bit disingenuous.

Spiked it AGAIN? I think it's been spiked off and on since the mid-70s.

C'mon Nancy, kiss it. I won't tell Hil.

I'm sure the Democrats are rubbing their hands in glee letting Bush lead us down this path of utter ridiculous. He should have stuck to the war, and stayed out of the Amnesty (and yes, put as much lipstick on that swine as you like, it's still porcine) debacle.

Bush--doing the job the Democrats won't do.

This shamnesty fiasco will be Bush's Monica.

Disagreement - rabies-like or sweet-faced - is still disagreement. Being nice about it doesn't change the facts. DJ, you've criticized it as much as anyone. Sure, spittle has flown and words were said, but passing a bill wracked with flaws and riddled with potholes is not better than nothing.

If they wanted to "tighten the borders", they would be doing it. Not this namby pamby "We're hiring 5,000 new border agents!" only to find that a year later, they've hired 50. "We're passing a bill to put up a fence!" and a year later they're still arguing about who's going to build it, who's going to pay for it and what it will be made of and finally come to the conclusion they can't afford it. If they wanted to "prevent employers from hiring undocumented workers", they'd be doing it. "We're gonna get tough on these guys!" Sure you will, you'll raid some tiny hotel outside Barstow and tell you what a great job they're doing.

We have laws for all that stuff already. Show us you're willing to enforce them first.

And do something about Sanctuary Cities. They won't cooperate? Cut off their funds.

All they're doing is passing some gigantic monstrosity of a bill few understand and even less will be willing to enforce because it's too convoluted.

Here's something few people have even thought about. What about all the illegals who don't apply? They amnesty bill in '86 was quite lenient and less than half applied. And even then the government was overwhelmed with a mere fraction of what it will be this time if half apply. They're far too eager to "legalize" these people. They say they can't conceivably deport millions yet somehow they think they're going to process them in a manner that will keep us safe from the ones who intend to do harm?

And if you think I'm not being "nice" about it, you haven't seen me yet.

DJ Drummond:

Sorry, man, but it's because both Bush and Kyl think business is more important than liberty.

Personally, I'd rather pay more for my car and know the guy's in detroit aren't getting hammered by lousy trade deals.

And I LOVE markets.

That's what this is about. Artificial advantages for big business.

This shamnesty fiasco will be Bush's Monica.

No, because even then the Democrats/Liberals were blindfully loyal. Not the case here.

So, DJ, how long till you start calling everyone who was opposed to the bill bigots who don't want what's right for America? So Michelle isn't afraid to call a POS a POS. Does that mean you need to try to turn Wizbang into the sort of happy, loving place Polipundit used to be? Do you have any other words of wisdom to hand down from the throne?

Personally, I'd rather pay more for my car and know the guy's in detroit aren't getting hammered by lousy trade deals.

You better get ready for more taxes. Many of these suddenly "legalized" illegals will, because they are working low-income wages, be eligible for Earned Income Tax Credits, in addition to not paying much in the way of taxes because they are below the low-income cutoff line. In addition, many of these immigrants, even if they are now on the tax payrolls will have started paying taxes while they are fairly well into their adult lives, unless the rest of us who started paying taxes with our first burger-flipping job at 16, meaning that when it comes to getting SS at 65, they will be receiving far more than they put into the system.

And our system is currently at about a 2-1 ratio now: It takes two workers to pay for the SS of one person. Now, look ahead 20 years when SS becomes insolvent (potentially) with all the boomers retiring AND the older middle aged immigrants following right behind. I hope y'all have some IRAs and CDs tucked away.

And where shall the money come to fund this huge outlay when the incoming payroll taxes won't cover it? Two choices: large deficits from borrowing, or a nice hike in taxes.

Looks like those 80s tax shelters might become popular again...

any bill that would not codify into law that criminal aliens and terrorists could not become legal is worth than no bill at all.. this bill sucks and everyone but Bush, his cheerleaders and his allies in the Democrat leadership realize that.

James,

'zactly.

This will be a temporary fix on Social Security so they can ignore it again for a while. And like the illegal immigration situation was left to grow into an unmanageable problem, which has all of us in an uproar, so too will social security grow into a problem that can't be "fixed" anymore.

James,

we can always just grant amnesty to the 40-60 million illegals that will have snuck past the 20 or so miles of fence that Bush will have built by that time.

Its a teenage trick... like you call your dad and say, I have some very bad news..... No I'm not pregnant but I wrecked the car......

Thus the funding for stem cell research passes unoticed....................

James,
'zactly.

Oh, but that's just the tip of the monetary iceberg, mes ami 'lest we've forgotten SSI, welfare benefits, housing credits, money being spent for bilingual requirements, because they've been in the country for 20 years, and yet still somehow haven't gotten around to learning english--I think the non-assimilation aspect ticks me off the most.

And if the Republicans think that this action is going to turn all these people into GOP stalwarts--pffft! Mexico is a socialist country, which party is the most socialist-like? (Though, who knows, in 20 years, at the rate the GOP is going, it's going to become like France's political parties---various shades of Left).

And, for God's sake, stop giving me this whole "jobs that Americans won't do" crap. There are going to be legions of lower-income American families who can't work because of this. You think unemployement in African-American urban areas are bad now? Wait until they get shut out of even the low-paying jobs. Poor low-income/poverty whites won't escape this either.

Hell, what about a teenager who wants to get his first job? Hope you have a trust fund, buddy...

Thus the funding for stem cell research passes unoticed....................

A drop in the bucket compared to cost of this Amnesty package. A DROP IN THE BUCKET.

DJ...the Bill was essentially saying: "We, the Government, will enforce the laws we already have IF AND ONLY IF you let us grant amnesty to 12,000,000 people!"

And ya know, we might have even gone for THAT, except that:
(a) they watered down the CURRENT laws as part of the Bill and
(b) we all KNOW they were just kidding about enforcing ANY laws!!

Mark, is someone hasn't stolen the VETO pen the stem cell sham is DOA at the white house, again.

Stem cell research that really works is ignored by those that thirst for the blood of babies. 50 million or so abortions haven't satisfied them, what will?
3-5 million slaughtered in Southeast Asia by the democrats and now millions of Iraqi's fear for their life if the democrats get their way. Thousands of American Soldiers have died at the hands of the democrat supported terrorists. Why don't the democrats just shoot them themselves and take out the middle man.
Bush isn't the best but he's the best that has been or is around that wants to take on a lousy job. May as well elect Osama as any of the current democrats in the running. Will someone walk out of the wilderness and run these traitors off and run for president?

Scrapiron - I do admire your tireless efforts.

All in all though, I would have to say I'm not disappointed with this outcome. We (Democrats) will be able to get a much better bill through in 2009 when we have both the Executive and the Legislative branches. And, it won't include any of this "border fence" crapola.

So I have to say I'm glad that you guys have successfully defeated immigration reform during a period of time when you had control of the Presidency and the Congress (2000-2004). Thanks guys, keep up the good work.

I see Larkin cares nothing about the lives of his family, unless he is one of the criminals that slipped into the country. Again, there is no such thing as an illegal alien. Setting foot in any sovern country without the proper paperwork should be like an uninvited guest in my house. I'll ask you to leave, I'll tell you to leave and then i'll watch the life saving crew remove your dead a**. Enforce the law and thousands of American citizens will live to see next year, ignore it and take the chance one of the dead will be your relative. Enforce the law and your family won't have to wait in the emergency room for hours (a lot die there) waiting for treatment for a major injury or illness. It's (the wait, no service and die) happening all over this country due to criminal aliens using the E.R. for primary care. A criminal alien gets the sniffles and it cost the American taxpayers a thousand or more dollars.

If this is a nation of laws, enforce those laws. You don't get to break into my house because you need a place to stay and work. 12 Million uninvited guests cannot and will not be tolerated. When someone says we cannot deport 12 million people. I say, yes we can. It does not have to happen in one day, but if the reasons they are here dry up, they will leave. This is an invasion from the south. The fact that they are not armed is not relevant. If you want civil war, keep it up.

The amnesty bill pushed in congress would actually have done more physical and monetary damage to this country than ten 9-11's. Members of congress are worse than little children, once they get involved in something they will not let go and will not admit they are wrong. Some of the 'fits' thrown in congress in the past week make the spoiled brat display, when the want something, in a shopping mall look like a joke.

I believe a "comprehensive" approach - dealing with the issues of border and visa security, the 12 million here illegally already, a method of legalization/normalization, a guest worker program, and revising the rules and quotas for future legal immigration - is the only way to deal with the problem in the real world.

This bill ain't it. It ain't even close.

For my money, the original Bush proposal was probably as close as we can get to a reasonable deal, if the added fence authorization were funded and implemented as needed. The McCain-Kennedy alternative last year was too wishy-washy, and the current version is even worse, although some provisions represent needed progress.

We can't treat everyone the same. Prospective immigrants from the south who seek only economic opportunity ought not face the same rules as those from nations with active jihadi networks, for example.

Nearly all the applicants from Egypt or Saudi Arabia will only seek the same thing, but they ought to have to endure further screening to qualify. Sorry, but it's the whole laying down with dogs thing.

The number of guest worker permits and H1-B visas should be commensurate with the need.

The border should be secured with more patrols and fencing (and other physical and technical measures) where appropriate and cost effective. Monitoring of visas for tourists and students must be instituted. This should be at least substantially under way before any normalization of resident illegals is implemented.

We cannot give people a free "probationary" visa just because the government can't find a reason not to within 24 hours. It makes no sense at all, since the government can't even process a tax payment that quickly.

There are other problems which must be addressed, and others which ought not be created. The proposal before Congress now is a bad one and should be defeated, but that doesn't mean all of its provisions are bad. Just the stupid ones.

No, because even then the Democrats/Liberals were blindfully loyal. Not the case here.

You are assuming that the press will include them. We remember JC for long gas lines, clinton for monica and we will remember bush for this shamnesty.

I believe Reid is the leader of the senate. He takes the hit. GW is only a player if he signs it, which he said he would. Leadership is everything and Reid knows it. 12 of his own party defied the leadership to vote no.

Even if the dimmers get the executive, next election, the Senate republicans can still block any stupid bill.

I am personally really proud of the conservatives that let our party know how we felt. I do not know why the senate thought we were so stupid as to believe they would enforce the immigration laws when they did not in 64 and 86. ww

"Bush--doing the job the Democrats won't do."
Posted by: James Cloninger at June 7, 2007 10:36 PM

"This shamnesty fiasco will be Bush's Monica."
Posted by: VagaBond at June 7, 2007 10:41 PM

Wrong, both of you. The senators that sponsored this bill, Kennedy & McCain, and their supporters along with Sen. Reid D NV are responsible and all the finger pointing by halfwits will not change the facts. That the Democrats in general provided overall support for it will not be forgotten either.

The Immigration Bill was Bush's from the gitgo. When are you lying liars going to fess up and own your positions? You keep trying to rewrite history - -are you stupid, or dishonest? (or both!?!?)

Here's Bush over a year ago:

Good morning. Earlier this week, I spoke to you from the Oval Office to lay out my vision for reforming our Nation's immigration system. And on Thursday, I went to Arizona to visit with the men and women of the Border Patrol. I wanted to get an update on their efforts because a secure America depends on a secure border.

Here's Bush three weeks ago:

This week, my Administration reached an agreement with Republicans and Democrats in the Senate on immigration reform. I thank the leaders in both parties who worked hard to produce legislation that will secure the border, restore respect for the law, and meet the legitimate needs of our economy.

The initiative Bush launched in 2006 resulted in this bill, a compromise position forged by McCain and Kennedy.

"The senators that sponsored this bill, Kennedy & McCain, and their supporters along with Sen. Reid D NV are responsible and all the finger pointing by halfwits will not change the facts. That the Democrats in general provided overall support for it will not be forgotten either."

Bullshit. That's just plain Bullshit.

Bush hopes to revive immigration bill:

President Bush, trying to recover from a stinging setback on immigration, will personally try in a visit to the Capitol next week to revive the embattled plan for legalizing millions of unlawful immigrants.

Bush's scheduled lunch on Tuesday with GOP senators is part of a campaign by the White House and allies in both parties to placate or outmaneuver conservative Republicans who blocked the broad immigration measure this week. They said Friday they would try again to reach accord on the number of amendments the dissidents could offer.

Opponents of the bill promised to continue fighting all such efforts.

Democratic leaders accused Bush of being too tepid in pushing the legislation, which would tighten borders and offer employers more temporary workers from abroad in addition to providing lawful status to an estimated 12 million illegal aliens and putting many of them on a path toward citizenship

Many Republicans defended the president's role. But the bill's backers nonetheless welcomed his plan to attend the GOP senators' weekly luncheon in the Capitol for the first time in five years.

The visit was scheduled before this week's immigration votes, and Bush will discuss numerous subjects with Republican senators, said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel. "But certainly immigration is a topic" high on the list, he said.

Senate backers of the immigration bill fell 15 votes short of the 60 needed Thursday to limit debate and allow a vote on the measure itself. Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., then set the measure aside, calling it "the president's bill" and saying Bush's direct intervention was crucial to reviving it.

On Friday, some key Republicans agreed. "Whose bill is it?" Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said in a news briefing held by bill supporters. "Harry Reid says this is the Bush proposal. Harry Reid is right."

Those who don't agree are in serious denial, but America knows better.

Harry Reid was totally responsible for the failure of the bill. And Lee needs to get the training wheels off his tricycle.

Changing proceedures for providing ammendments to this legislation that isolated many senators was the root cause of the failure.

But do go on with the denial of the pathetic leadership the senate now provides.

And one thing Lee is completely correct on, is this is GW's blindness along with many others who thought they could cram this bill down American's throats and call it "as good as it gets" (Lindsay Graham). If this was the best our senate can provide, it's a sad day indeed. They can go back to the drawing board, but until they listen to their electorate on this issue, it will never pass muster.

BOARDER SUCURITY FIRST! GET IT?