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Pass the popcorn

So, can we call the current kerfuffle in the Palestinian Territories a "civil war" yet?

Let's see... we have two political parties that don't like each other. Both parties are outgrowths of terrorist groups who have tried to hide behind the polite fiction that they can have "political" and "militant" wings. And they have decided to settle their differences the old-fashioned way -- killing each other (and anyone else who gets in the way).

Fatah has pretty much been driven from the Gaza Strip, leaving it firmly in the hands of Hamas. Hamas, you might recall, is on the official list of terrorist organizations. Their rather impressive resume includes numerous suicide bombings, rocket attacks, kidnappings, shootings, and recently they've expanded their repertoire to include dropping people off high rooftops.

They are also Islamic fundamentalists. Their plan is for the destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamist Palestinian state in its place, with Shariah law supreme.

But that doesn't matter, you see. After all, they won an election, certified as fair by no less an eminence than Jimmy Carter.

My initial response to the carnage in Gaza, with Hamas and Fatah killing each other (and any civilians that were in awkward places, my first reaction was a shrug. For once, the vast majority of the body count was terrorists -- and this was pretty much the inevitable consequence of the Palestinian elections. The Palestinian people chose the Islamist terrorists versus the corrupt secular terrorists, and the idea that the two groups would find some way of sitting down and settling their differences amicably was far beyond delusional.

So now we have the makings of what some are cynically calling a "true two-state solution" to the Palestinian crisis: an Islamist tumor in the Gaza Strip run by Hamas, and a kleptocracy in the West Bank under the thumb of Fatah. And both sides are vigorously exterminating the remnants of the other in their own territories.

So many solutions spring to mind. The first would be for Israel to simply seal off their border with the Gaza Strip and place the border regions under intense surveillance. At the first sign that Hamas has grown bored with slaughtering their fellow Palestinians and is considering resuming their preferred vocation of killing Jews, then Israel should just obliterate the staging areas. After all, Hamas has repeatedly affirmed that they consider themselves at war with Israel, so why not simply take them at their word?

And to those who say that that would be punishing the innocents of Gaza, I say this: Hamas won power in an internationally-certified election, and before that it was flagrantly clear that this was an eminently predictable consequence of that election -- in fact, I would even say it was inevitable.

Of course, that leaves the question of what to do about the West Bank. Some say that we should support Fatah there, encourage them to consolidate their power as a hedge against Hamas. Some say that we should act to freeze out Fatah, as they are acting against the duly-elected government of the Palestinian Authority, which is dominated by Hamas after those infamous elections.

Me, I say "what's the rush?" Killing people seems to be the Palestinian national sport (presuming, of course, that one considers the Palestinians a nationality -- which I do not). For too long, they've focused on killing Israelis and anyone else they consider the least bit sympathetic or supportive of Israel. Now they're currently killing each other, and any police officer can tell you the ugliest situation to get in the middle of is a domestic violence case.

And that's pretty much what is going on in the Palestinian territories right now, a domestic disturbance writ large.

I don't see any compelling interest or reason for anyone to intervene while terrorists kill terrorists, while people who invested all their hopes and dreams and aspirations in terrorists and gave them power and legitimacy get precisely what everyone else said would be the consequences.

More importantly, neither terrorist group -- Fatah or Hamas -- is asking for any international intervention in the fighting at this point. This means that for any outsiders to intervene would most likely end up getting shot at by both sides. And while some would welcome that -- giving the terrorists a reminder that they both are happier when they're killing others instead of their own -- I, personally, feel no great compunction to stop them.

So I say what's the rush? Let's just sit back and see how things develop for a bit. Let's give the terrorists plenty of time to grow bored with killing each other. Just isolate them and let them duke it out until they either grow tired of it or one side decisively wins.

Or -- and this is purest fantasy -- they wipe each other out.

In the meantime, could someone get me some chips?


Comments (50)

I thought it was popcorn?</... (Below threshold)
marc:

I thought it was popcorn?

Me... I'll take one super-sized giant Captain Crunch and an unlimited supply of milk.

Or -- and this is ... (Below threshold)
Rovin:
Or -- and this is purest fantasy -- they wipe each other out.

Jay,

I can't believe that you would advocate two "societys" that are practically born with AK-47's in their arms----to wipe themselves out. How insensitive of you. /sarc off

Of course, the Al-Wapo has put all the blame of this current conflict on GW in this article

It is sad to see a society that is born and bread into a fabricated hatred for and against any other by their own self-oppression. It may take more that a generation of purging the "leadership" that continues down this path----or you may be right, and they will self-exterminate.

This power struggle among t... (Below threshold)

This power struggle among the Palestinians is yet another dangerous consequence of the grossly inept and failed Bush Mideast foreign policy. The Bush Doctrine promoted the concept of democratic elections in the Mideast when many of these people lack the social development for such freedoms without unleashing dangerous fundamentalist radicals into power.

In Iraq, instead of democracy a Shiite dominated government unable to effectively share power with the Sunni minority has resulted in a low level civil war and acted as a magnet for foreign radicals as well such as Al Qaeda.

In Lebanon, a power struggle continues between Western allies in the government and proSyrian elements as well as Hezbollah and growing Al Qaeda presense among the six main Palestinian refugee camps, some of which have existed since the 1948 war in Israel.

Kurdish radicals are now increasing a separatist conflict with Turkey in the hopes of creating a state of Kurdistan, creating problems with the important NATO role membership of Turkey.

Iran increasingly is becoming the major radical Mideast power with the destruction of Saddam Hussein's Iraq to keep this dangerous religious radical state in check. Iran also presents a huge future nuclear threat both to Israel and the U.S.

In addition, radicals in Egypt and other states continue an arms flow to regional radicals, setting the stage for more armed revolutions like the one in Gaza that brought Hamas extremists to power in their armed coup against the more moderate U.S. backed Fatah.

Syria continues to build a giant fleet of rockets and missiles and huge underground military bunkers immune to U.S. or Israeli bunker buster bombs.

The government of Pakistan is being increasingly undermined by Taliban and Al Qaeda supporters and other radicals and could even collapse sometime in the future, giving radicals control of a fleet of nuclear weapons.

This Bush Administration has simply not been up to the job at all, and the Mideast is now in the most volatile and dangerous mess it has ever been in where both radicalism and nuclear dangers are steadily growing and endangering the mainland U.S. interests and leaving Americans far less secure and safe than ever before. No administration has ever failed so badly with foreign policy so critical to the safety of Israel and the U.S. both.

No it's not a civil war. I... (Below threshold)
Puck:

No it's not a civil war. It's still the Palestinian people fighting for their homeland against America/Israel.

Hamas is a thuggist band religious zealots that would be politically marginal in Palestine if Zionist America hadn't all-but-installed Fatah as its puppet.

America can claim it wants democracy - but Israel wants instability - everywhere.

Israel wins again.

Hey Jay; you want some pork rinds with those chips?

Hoosan:The Bus... (Below threshold)
marc:

Hoosan:

The Bush Doctrine promoted the concept of democratic elections in the Mideast when many of these people lack the social development for such freedoms without unleashing dangerous fundamentalist radicals into power.

Really, how do you explain elections in Kuwait that OMG, include woman voters?

Or the UAE (you know, that place the loonbats and scardy-cats band wagoned a legit ports deal out of existence)

You really need to put down that pail, it must get tiring carrying the WaPo's water.

Puck:Yep as if on ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Puck:

Yep as if on cue the resident anti-semite shows up.

No it's not a civil war. It's still the Palestinian people fighting for their homeland against America/Israel.

Funny, every news organization, and I mean EVERY one is calling the conflict a civil war. Yet here's Puck claiming it isn't and in previous posts he calls Iraq violence a civil war.

BTW if the war is "against America/Israel" what's the body count of Americans and Israelis as opposed to that of Palestinians?

I'd say it's 0 to several hundred at this point which means your full of sour falafel or the Palestinians are some pretty piss poor shots.

Marc - I thought we were go... (Below threshold)
Puck:

Marc - I thought we were going to stop the name-calling. Guess not.

Well since you define anyone who critcizes Israel as an Anti-Semite - then I'm (proudly) guilty as charged.

You, on the other hand are a racist - you think that Arabs shouldn't have the same attachment to culture, history, and home that you value. Somehow you think they should just give up - and accept America/Israel demands to leave, and to raise their children as second-class citizens.


Puck:Marc - I ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Puck:

Marc - I thought we were going to stop the name-calling. Guess not.

Whose "we," got a mouse in your pocket? No promises made from me.

Well since you define anyone who critcizes Israel as an Anti-Semite - then I'm (proudly) guilty as charged.

Where's the quote that indicates that?

YOU I called an anti-semite not "anyone," YOU, got it?

You, on the other hand are a racist - you think that Arabs shouldn't have the same attachment to culture, history, and home that you value. Somehow you think they should just give up - and accept America/Israel demands to leave, and to raise their children as second-class citizens.

Again, where's the quote that indicates that?

You're good at projecting fantastical made-up BS into someone else's belief system but other than that you ain't much.

We need a three state solut... (Below threshold)
bill:

We need a three state solution.

Sometimes you just have to win militarily, before there can be peace.

Hoosan: Iran has steadily g... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Hoosan: Iran has steadily grown in power since your president Carter let Iran fall to the mullahs. To lay the mess that the middle east has grown into on the doorstep of GW is...well...stupid. I agree with many. Having terrorists killing terrorists is a very good thing.

Puck said: "Zionist America" which is code everyone who hates jews uses. So, if you are proud to say, be proud to wear it. You are an anti-semite. I never understood anyone who hates people for being what they had no choice in being. Says more about the hater. ww

With any luck the bastids w... (Below threshold)
BillyBob:

With any luck the bastids will kill each other and wipe themselves out within a generation.

Give them their own state and look what you get.

Screw the palis or whatever you want to call them. Notice how you don't see Egypt or any other arab nation coming to help their arab brothers. They could care less what the palis do.

They are a waste of bandwith & media print because they are not civilized enough, so please do us a favor and finish each other off in Bush's term. There's a legacy he could use to go with the selling out of America.

WW:Iran has st... (Below threshold)
marc:

WW:

Iran has steadily grown in power since your president Carter let Iran fall to the mullahs.

And it was the same Carter that "validated" the Palestinian elections despite evidence that Hamas left many polling places open well into the night when it appeared they would lose.

The bigger picture is after... (Below threshold)
GeminiChuck:

The bigger picture is after Hamas wins the civil war that will spill over to the West Bank, Isreal will be totally surrounded by Iranian agents. Iran will then promote and support the total annihilation of Israel. Then the anti-Semintics world wide will be ecstatic! - but will they be satisfied? I'm guessing not - afterall, there are Jews in the US. gc

It is possible that this wi... (Below threshold)
Robert the Original:

It is possible that this will clarify the situation and let some see the truth of it.

For years Europe and the US libs would pressure the US administration to elbow Israel in the ribs to agree to the latest peace plan.

There was a mist of BS that was cast over the area. There was sympathy for the poor peace-loving Palestinians. Arafat was a statesman who won a Nobel. The Arab States wanted to help; Israel was repressive and bloodthirsty, etc. Land for peace, more land for peace.

All the while, Arafat diverted billions to French banks. An expensive mist of BS.

Truth is, none of this was true. Gaza voted for Hamas fully aware of what they were doing. If Clinton had succeeded with Arafat, more dollars and land would now be lost.

It will be harder now for the UN, the Europeans and the US libs to continue to paint this picture backwards.

The Palestinians have prove... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

The Palestinians have proven time and time and time again that the only course is a ZERO state solution.

How many times is someone going to fail their medical exam before you put them at an operating table and hand them a scalpel anyway?

As for the usual predictable cries of "It's Bush's fault" ... stow it. Since when has Bush been able to affect change of any sort in Gaza? It should also be noted, terrorists kill people, that's what they do...there's no surprise here, no grand revelation or failed American policy; their murderers practicing their trade and frankly I'm of the same mind as Jay: I say let them kill themselves.

Which brings to mind a quot... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Which brings to mind a quote:

"Never interrupt your enemy when they're busy making a mistake" ~Napoleon"

Paul Hoosen: "This power st... (Below threshold)
Drago:

Paul Hoosen: "This power struggle among the Palestinians is yet another dangerous consequence of the grossly inept and failed Bush Mideast foreign policy. The Bush Doctrine promoted the concept of democratic elections in the Mideast when many of these people lack the social development for such freedoms without unleashing dangerous fundamentalist radicals into power."

This from the idiot Hoosen who didn't know that there were more than 3 aircraft in the Oregon Air National Guard which he then claimed had been siphoned of for duty in Iraq and, thus, leaving Oregon wide open to attack.

I could spend weeks attempting to come up with various insane rantings and none of them would come close to what Hoosen peddles everyday.

Thanks Paul!

Jay Tea:<block... (Below threshold)

Jay Tea:

I don't see any compelling interest or reason for anyone to intervene while terrorists kill terrorists, while people who invested all their hopes and dreams and aspirations in terrorists and gave them power and legitimacy get precisely what everyone else said would be the consequences.

My sentiments exactly. If only I could just enjoy the schadenfreude without worrying about how Iran will somehoe gain advantage of this. Oh well, back to just enjoying the fact that I was right all along about how this would shake out!

As long as the Hamas and Fa... (Below threshold)
Paul:

As long as the Hamas and Fatah kill each other so be it. Israel should isolate Gaza and destroy Hamas. Then do the same to Fatah.

Marc, you cannot really com... (Below threshold)

Marc, you cannot really compare the small constitutional monarchy oil rich states of Kuwait with the 3.1 million persons and a per capita income of $29,566 or of the United Arab Emirates with a population of 4.1 million persons with a per capita income to the Palestinians of which 4 million of their 9.4 million live as refugees, often in extreme poverty in the region, with only a $2,050 per capita income. Socially and econically such persons were not ready for the democratic elections that the Bush administration insisted that Fatah hold, and has created this latest power grab crisis by Hamas. Kuwait and the UAE are not completely democratic states by any means, yet Bush insisted on completely free elections among the Palestinians who weren't socially ready for it, unleashing Hamas.

Wildwillie, support for the Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, did not begin and end with the Carter Administration, but started back in 1941 and existed with every president, both Democrat and Republican from 1941-1980. This strong U.S. support for this cruel leader only because he was a strong antiCommunist only encouraged years of anger resulting in the 1979 revolution. The U.s. should have supported far better human rights in Iran instead of turning so many against the U.S.

Drago, you misquoted me about the Oregon Air National Guard. I once only referRed to the three aircraft stationed at the Portland Airbase that were to be reassigned to another airbase much farther from Portland that the Governor and both Senators opposed, including Republican Gordon Smith.

But none of you three guys has addressed just how much worse the violence and other problems have become in the Mideast since the Bush Administration engaged in it's failed "nation building" in the region. The region was far better off under every previous Democrat and Republican president than it is now.

Actually, after the rampage... (Below threshold)
Proud Kaffir:

Actually, after the rampage in Gaza, there is now a pro-Palestinian and humanitarian reason for Isreal's continued existence and military strength. Israel is the entity keeping these two combatants apart. If Israel failed to exist, these two sides would tear each other apart (Well, after they finished the quaint chore of killing off all the Jews.)

Listen up, anti-Semites. We must support Israel in order to save Palestinian lives. Rinse, lather, and repeat. Somewhat ironic, isn't it?

The Palestinians had a chan... (Below threshold)
hermie:

The Palestinians had a chance to build their own nation.

Instead, they destroyed whatever was given to them to build it. (Ex: The greenhouses built and left by the Israelis)

Instead, they chose Fatah and Hamas to rule over them, and continue the mindless hatred and bloodshed.

Now Hamas, greedy for more power, has decided to do a Michael Corleone and eliminate the competition.

This was the Palestinians' failure. It will continue to fail until Hamas and Fatah are both wiped out.

Paul, Is this what ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Paul,
Is this what the liberals want wrt Oslo process? Liberals have been asking for a two state solution, right? Liberals got what they want and now don't like the results?
Gaza is simply another example of liberal illusion and the bankruptcy of their policies.

"I don't see any compell... (Below threshold)
MyPetGloat:

"I don't see any compelling interest or reason for anyone to intervene while terrorists kill terrorists, while people who invested all their hopes and dreams and aspirations in terrorists and gave them power and legitimacy get precisely what everyone else said would be the consequences."

How very well spoken from the irony-impaired.

"...you think that Arabs... (Below threshold)

"...you think that Arabs shouldn't have the same attachment to culture, history, and home that you value."

Not Arabs. We're talking about the Palestinians in particular. And not when that culture is based an explicit call for the death of others who do not share that "culture".

A this: "This power struggle among the Palestinians is yet another dangerous consequence of the grossly inept and failed Bush Mideast foreign policy."

And whose fault was it before Bush? This is not new. Why isn't it THEIR fault? Why aren't you holding the Palestinians responsible for their own actions?

"...when many of these people lack the social development for such freedoms..."

I have to agree with you there on that part of your sentence. they do indeed lack the social development. So our continued intervention in the Israeli/Palestinian issue would be good ... why? What as ever been achieved thus far? It kept it down to a dull roar, so that terrorism in that tiny slice of the world is merely a "nuisance"? But basically, are you implying that they shouldn't be allowed the freedom to make choices they might be held accountable for? I'm only asking, because many say that they should have a right to that self-determination and not just the Bush Administration. The left was just as supportive of their right to free elections.

Paul Hooson:<blockquo... (Below threshold)
Heralder:

Paul Hooson:

But none of you three guys has addressed just how much worse the violence and other problems have become in the Mideast since the Bush Administration engaged in it's failed "nation building" in the region. The region was far better off under every previous Democrat and Republican president than it is now.

It's amazing how much worse cancer seems once you realize you actually have it.

I realize you're also a proponent of the "let them die quietly out of view of our journalists so we can say there is no violence" theory, which nicely ties into the "as long as people are viciously and violently oppressed it's cool because there will be less fighting" theory.

No amount of hands off-edd-ness is going to stop these animals from killing one another and dragging the bodies through the streets. The less we're involved, the less you'll hear or care about it.

I was reading a little round up over at AOS and I noticed this little gem:

(AP) - Hamas fighters overran two of the rival Fatah movement's most important security command centers in the Gaza Strip on Thursday, and witnesses said the victors dragged vanquished gunmen into the street and shot them to death execution-style.

Meanwhile, an Israeli tank shell struck a group of siblings near the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on Thursday, Hamas security officials said. Hospital workers said five children, all under 16, were killed.

Hamas security officials told you this you say? You mean the same people that are throwing men off of buildings and killing Fatah members in front of their families? Never miss a chance to blame the Jews...which is also much the same as never missing a chance to blame Bush, Paul.

Ace said it best:

This isn't a tragedy. Tragedies have heroes.

This is just a farce with a bodycount.

Now, if only President Bush hadn't voted Hamas into power none of this would have happened.


Paul Hoosen: "Drago, you mi... (Below threshold)
Drago:

Paul Hoosen: "Drago, you misquoted me about the Oregon Air National Guard. I once only referRed to the three aircraft stationed at the Portland Airbase that were to be reassigned to another airbase much farther from Portland that the Governor and both Senators opposed, including Republican Gordon Smith."

This is, of course, a lie.

Paul, you carried on for quite sometime along the lines I laid out before the sheer volume of corrective information heaped upon you forced you to change your tune.

The fact that you now easily lie about it only serves to prove that your as intellectually disengenuous as you are intellectually vacuous.

Par for the course for you.

I agree with a lot of what ... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

I agree with a lot of what Jay wrote in this post, but I have to wonder about blaming the Palestinians because they "elected" a terrorist government. I mean, did they really have a choice? Was there any non-terrorists running?

It's kinda like here in the US. Sure there are a lot of political parties, but it's highly unlikely that anyone who is not a Democrat or Republican will get elected. In this country its all about money and who has the most. In the Palestinian territories it's most likely who has the most weapons and ammunition.

In most elections here in the U.S., I'd rather not vote for either candidate, but find myself pragmatically voting for the lesser of two evils rather than wasting my vote on someone who has no chance. I can't help but wonder if the same was not the case for the Palestinians. So is it really the fault of "innocents" that "Hamas won power in an internationally-certified election"?

BTW- It's best to skip over the Hoosen comments. They're like articles in the NY Times - if you read them and understand them, you stupider than you were before you read them.

(That's why I really, really wish they'd put the author's name at the top of the comment instead of the bottom. With long posts like that I have to scroll down to read who wrote it so I can decide if it's worth reading, and then if it's a sane author I have to scroll back up.)

The rise of the powerful Is... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

The rise of the powerful Islamic State came into being on Carters watch. He did nothing about Iran the four years he was in. He did everything for the Palistinians. Now Carter is showing his anti-semitic roots. Spin it anyway you can. Carter failed and we have what we have now because of it. ww

There's no escaping, regard... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

There's no escaping, regardless of the liberal spin, these folks just like killing. It's a fundamental component of their psyche, their history, their religion, and mostly hinges on their intolerance of those who don't agree. Blaming Bush is a kindergarten-level mental exercise.

*Passes Jay a bottle of Coc... (Below threshold)
Ennis:

*Passes Jay a bottle of Coca-Cola and some Queso for his chips.

WildWillie,

Have you noticed that everything St. Jimmah of Plains has blessed turns into totalitarianism, terrorism and civil warand every "elected official" he has blessed is a tyrant.

Of course one must remember that St. Jimmah was our first Communist President.

BTW Paul, here's a little "... (Below threshold)
Drago:

BTW Paul, here's a little "flashback" from Polipundit to "help you recall" your many moronic and ignorant statements:
"And a fleet of two Air National Guard jets was going to be removed by the Pentagon in some cost cutting as well. But that is all that stands between the North Korean or Chinese Navy and the Oregon coast. It is all that prevents an aircraft from being hijacked in a 9/11 attempt and used against some city as a weapon.

Comment by Paul Hooson | Homepage | 1/7/2006 - 12:21 pm | Edit This "

And there's sooooo much more where that came from.

So thanks "Nearly-a-PhD Paul", with a background in psychology and social work, your "insight" into military and geo-political analysis is certainly "appreciated".

"(That's why I really, r... (Below threshold)

"(That's why I really, really wish they'd put the author's name at the top of the comment instead of the bottom. With long posts like that I have to scroll down to read who wrote it so I can decide if it's worth reading, and then if it's a sane author I have to scroll back up.)"

P Bunyan: I'm with ya. My middle finger gets tired too. I mean the one on the mouse wheel of course :)

Conveniently forgotten is t... (Below threshold)
Lysander:

Conveniently forgotten is the dual fact that there is a "Palestinian" state - once called Transjordan, now called Jordan. And, that same state went to war against the "Palestinian" Liberation Organization in September 1970. What about some of that land for peace?

I can see several possible ... (Below threshold)
Matt:

I can see several possible ways to help this situation come to a succesful conclusion...

1. Since the island of Vieqas is out (I think I spelled it right), let the U.S. Navy use the Gaza Strip as there new artillery impact area.

2. Make sure HAMAS doesn't run out of ammo before they are done "consolidating" power.

3. Open a "safe passage" zone between Gaza and the West Bank so the destruction and mayhem can be properly shared between the diffent population groups of palestinians.

4. Let the various groups and governments of Palistinian supporters (U.N., EU, Arab States, etc) step up to the plate and intervene. Oh, I forgot, as long as the palestinians are killing Israelis or themselves, nobody in those august groups really cares.

Yes, the above is sarcasm. It is a horrible thing to see happen, but did anybody really expect different? If you wonder what they are fighting about, remember that the "PA" controls billions of dollars of aid money, and HAMAS might just want a chance to steal their fair share.

Watching the "war games" wi... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Watching the "war games" with glee. Wish someone would keep a body count.

Paul Hooson sounds like a w... (Below threshold)

Paul Hooson sounds like a windup doll sent by the DNC.

I guess only a lib could see Palestinians picking up AK-47s to kill other Palestinians in a power struggle, and come to the conclusion that it is all George W. Bush's fault.

Yeah, I guess Bush failed yet again to pick up his magic wand and make those pesky middle east problems just go away.

Bush failed to recognize th... (Below threshold)

Bush failed to recognize the outcome of not stepping in and dealing with the Palestinian issues, despite his stated campaign promises to do exactly that. He failed miserably, again.

Why is it that conservatives can only see clearly into the past, and dream of "what was" - instead of looking forward into the future, and helping shape what "will be"?

The term "Republican Leadership" has to be the oxymoron of the 21st century.

Another Oxymoron would be D... (Below threshold)
matt:

Another Oxymoron would be Democratic Integrity.

I seem to recal that President Bush put pressure on the Israeli government to withdraw from the Palestinian areas and provide them self rule. I think he also supported Fatah because they at least pretended to be interested in working things out with Israel, etc.

This is one of the situations that no matter what President Bush does/doesn't do, he would be wrong.

He can't militarily intervene to stop the fighting, that would be wrong. He can't not do anything, that would be wrong. He can't provide material support to one side or another, that would be wrong. He can't get Israel to intervene, that would be wrong.

What EXACTLY should President Bush do in this situation??

What EXACTLY should Preside... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

What EXACTLY should President Bush do in this situation??
-----------------------------------------------
He should continue funding Hamas and shouldn't isolate them. Also he should have forced Israel to give their southern third to Hamas to buy the peace for the next 6 months.

Oops sorry to forgot to men... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Oops sorry to forgot to mention that it would be better if Bush could force all the Israelis to relocate to Texas and give the whole Palestine to Hamas. This will ensure the peace for sure.

" Iran has steadily grow... (Below threshold)
putting food on your family:

" Iran has steadily grown in power since your president Carter let Iran fall to the mullahs" WildWillie

In spite of your CDS, Willie, you don't know shit about ME history as your remark above demonstrates. It's typically Know-Nothing Repuglicans like you who rewrite history to make their delusions and fantasies compute. Or more often, don't even know history.

THe dishonest hypocrisy of ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

THe dishonest hypocrisy of the liberal left is in full display wrt Hamas here. No wonder the liberal left is the modern home of anti-semitism.

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/2db1270c-8d6d-4072-8afa-07990b33eca6


Had Israel used even a distant cousin of Hamas' tactics, the international outcry and coverage would have been enormous and enduring. Condemnations would have rolled down on Israel like an avalanche, and would have kept rolling as they do after every clash between Israel and its enemies.

But here as we watch the rise of an ominous terrorist enclave just as brutal as the Taliban was or al Qaeda in Iraq is, the world is largely silent, paralyzed at the prospect of condemning an enemy of Israel. "The rise of Hamas in Gaza represents the extension of Iranian influence to Israel's south," Scott Johnson notes at Powerline this morning. "The result is untenable. It constitutes one more chapter in what Churchill called 'the gathering storm.'" He's right of course, but American media seems almost wholly indifferent to this expanding crisis. Democrats can't stop demanding defeat in Iraq long enough to note the connections between the battles in Iraq and those in lebanon and Gaza.


Hoonson:Marc, ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Hoonson:

Marc, you cannot really compare the small constitutional monarchy oil rich states of Kuwait with the 3.1 million persons and a per capita income of $29,566 or of the United Arab Emirates with a population of 4.1 million persons with a per capita income to the Palestinians of which 4 million of their 9.4 million live as refugees,

I not only can, I did.

Cry me a frickin' river! The Palestinians are poor for a single reason, corrupt leaders the largest AraRat as he sent hundreds of millions (billions?) of EU and U.S. aid money "home" to France and other destinations while his people languished in squaller.

Lee:Bush faile... (Below threshold)
marc:

Lee:

Bush failed to recognize the outcome of not stepping in and dealing with the Palestinian issues,

And you failed to recognize anything that HAS been done to suit your "needs." Sh*t on any and everything with an "R" behind it.

Bushes efforts started in earnest in 2002.

I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror. I call upon them to build a practicing democracy, based on tolerance and liberty.

They failed from the get-go didn't they? EVERYONE who had the slightest chance at being elected were linked to or actively practiced terrorism.

From this point in '02 Bush had a steady stream of envys and diplomats negotiating with the Palis and you see the end result because the Palis REFUSE to accept ANY solution that doesn't include terrorism and the death of Israel.

Bush failed to recognize th... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

Bush failed to recognize the outcome of not stepping in and dealing with the Palestinian issues,
---------------------------------------------
Liberals do speak on both sides of their mouth. Bush was supposed to step in and intervene in Palestine. Yet Bush has to abandon Iraq when AlQ is there and happy to turn it into another Gaza if not far worse.

I don't see any reason why ... (Below threshold)
Eric B:

I don't see any reason why one dollar or drop of American blood should be lost in the service of Palestinians. They have noone but themselves to blame for this situation. President Bush has done what he could reasonably do.

Gaza could have, should have, become an economic dynamo when the Israelis pulled out. It was an international resort when Egypt ran the place, and could have been that again. But no, apparently murdering Israelis is more important than building infrastructure, educating your children, creating jobs, etc.

Now that the Israelis have built a fence and have made it dangerous to fire rockets into Israel the Palis are turning on each other like rabid dogs. They deserve all the misery they bring upon themselves.

What amazed me was ABC's Ch... (Below threshold)
sanssoucy:

What amazed me was ABC's Charlie Gibson grimly explaining why I needed to care about a civil war that I not only didn't care about - but was actually *delighted* about!!!

If the Hamas-Fatah war lasts 500 years and kills 500,000 lunatics who'd otherwise be chanting "Death to America," it's a tremendously happy occurance.

SS

*Puts a couple of big bags ... (Below threshold)
Knightbrigade:

*Puts a couple of big bags of LAYS chips on the table, along with a case of Coke and 12 pk of Bud.*

I'm ready to enjoy the show, except does anyone think the dirtbags will almost exterminate themselves in time for football season?

Because then I'll have to change the channel.

Someone above spoke of a th... (Below threshold)
h:

Someone above spoke of a three state solution. I agree: Israel, Jordan and Egypt. Let the Jordyptians be re-incorporated into those Arab lands, let Israel take back the Gaza (sans the paleos) and let Israel and Jordan figure out a split in the disputed territories whereby Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel.

Problem solved.

No need to thank me Pres Bush and Sec Rice, it was my pleasure.




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