But what now?

Easy-START ENFORCING THE LAW THAT IS ON THE BOOKS NOW.

Amnesty-labelers = bigots

Correct. Enforce existing laws. The problem with this bill was the development in secrecy and the inferred insulting of our intelligience.

Now, watch the lefties call for censorship of talk radio. They are hateful, bigots, yada, yada.
ww

Nice goal, jhow. What are your specifics for making it happen?

Nice insult-laden smear attempt, WW. Way to advance the discussion.

(rolls eyes)0

LIAR!!

By the way, what the hell is this?

Liberals felt it did not go far enough in protecting illegal immigrants..

Remind me again why its our job to protect people that come to our country illegaly? I always thought protecting people was the charge of the person's actual country of citizenship.

+Here are some thoughts from Cap. Ed

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010376.php
Now What?
They need to address border security and visa-program problems immediately. Congress has left these problems simmering for over 21 years. Their failure to address the issue over two decades has demonstrated that Washington does not consider those issues a very high priority, and the Senate's insistence on tying them to normalization underscores that. Poll after poll shows that Americans don't believe Congress when it says it will do something -- and so Congress needs to demonstrate their competence first before we take a flyer on creating another vast bureaucratic nightmare.

Secure the borders. Fix the visa program. Do those tasks by using the proper legislative processes in both chambers, allowing for real debate, honest and open amendment opportunities, and quit using clay pigeons and other parliamentary tricks to hide the bill and railroad it through Congress.

In other words, act responsibly, instead of trying to pull a fast one on the American public.

Congratulations to the right-wing blogosphere. This is a big victory for you guys and talk radio.

It'll be interesting to see what the fallout is; particularly among Hispanic voter support for Republicans. Hopefully there will be some polling data on this.

It reminds me of Prop 187 here in California. Even though a majority of Latinos voted for it, in the years following the Republicans suffered heavy losses across the board in state elections. (Schwarzenegger has somewhat reversed that; but he can't be called a traditional Republican).

"But what now?"

A greater incentive to change out the GOP's old guard in Congress and get some fresh blood in there. The south needs significant rehabilitation.

DJ-Same as they would be on the bill that just got it's ass kicked by the people of the USA. ACTION INSTEAD OF BS by Congress.

It looks like Paul was stuck between two thoughts in his initial headline. I've made it a little clearer.

A greater incentive to change out the GOP's old guard in Congress and get some fresh blood in there. The south needs significant rehabilitation.

Harry Reid was totally responsible for the failure of the bill. And Lee needs to get the training wheels off his tricycle.

Changing proceedures for providing ammendments to this legislation that isolated many senators was the root cause of the failure.

But do go on with the denial of the pathetic leadership the senate now provides.

Still no specifics, jhow.

And that, like it or not, is sotto voce amnesty.

That should make Hillary happy. Deportations are her only hope for the Presidency.

Uh Larkie where is the left-wing talk radio. Could it be that no one listens? Could it be that the left and right both are tired of all this drag on our money supporting crooks? Could that be the reason that bill didn't pass? Huuuh.
wee wee...."old guard" just kicked your ass did it not? snicker snort

It is amazing, now that the hoi poloi can efficiently make its wishes known to their elected legislators, how those "in the know" resent it when it derails their well-intentioned plans.

"where is the left-wing talk radio."

NPR has been doing latino music specials all week long.

That's where it's been.

OT: "Fairness Doctrine" is unnecessary due to NPR being the voice of modern liberalism.

Well DJ you know as well as I that it can be done very easy;
1--Double fence
2--Shoot any SOB that makes it thru both.
3--Job complete
4--Waiting to get blasted-----tick tick ti-t-----

You first DJ. Tell us what you would do. You seem to come out of left fied in this debate and always look for specifics from others, but remain vague and dismissive on your end.

What do you think we should do. Make another post about it and try not to deride everyone else who disagrees with your idea.

Forgot to add:
5--Jail anyone that hires those that are here now.

Let me know your plan,DJ-got to go mow the yard-finely got some rain.

Build the wall and round them up where they work and give them 90 days to apply for citizenship the legal way. If they fail to do so their out of the country.
All gang members and felons shipped to Cuba or Venezuala.

Hopefully there will be some polling data on this.

Trust a lefty to want to run to the polls.

Hey, Larkin... ever considered thinking for yourself instead of being a weathervane?

This was GW's "blindness" along with many others, (Kennedy, McCain, Spector, et all) who thought they could cram this bill down American's throats and call it "as good as it gets" (Lindsay Graham). If this was the best our senate can provide, it's a sad day indeed. They can go back to the drawing board, but until they listen to their electorate on this issue, it will never pass muster.

BOARDER SECURITY FIRST! GET IT?

jhow, J.R., you're the ones who are so happy.

I am just reminding you that in reality land, nothing has changed.

I will post my plan again (you may recall I actually posted a very specific plan of action some weeks back, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear, so it was ignored) after my mid-terms and term paper, but I reserve the right to call out feces-flingers just as I see fit. I certainly will be interested in seeing how long you can go before you resort again to insults and character smears.

I usually don't pick on people for spelling, but Rovin, are you saying that to deal with this issue, we must first enforce dorm curfews?

That's what you meant by "boarders", right?

(ducks and runs)

Easy-START ENFORCING THE LAW THAT IS ON THE BOOKS NOW.

If it was that easy it would have been done already. Does anyone remember the raid on a New Bedford, MA leather processing plant back in March? link That was a fiasco. Multiply that times 15,000 and that is what is what you get from enforcing the law that is on the books now. Kicking out millions of people is just not a logistical possibility. We need to find another way to fix the problem.

I read a piece today where a Florida sheriff found an innovative way of enforcing the immigration laws. Deputies just show up in force at a construction site as if they were going to raid it and then see who runs. The cops give chase and arrest them for laws they break in fleeing such as trespassing when some illegal runs across private property. The sheriff then investigates and turns in the names of suspected illegals. The technique has been so successful it has dried up the pool of illegals in the county. Here's the interesting point. Some construction company big shot claims they can't build anything without the labor of illegals, which is a stupid lie. There are lots of construction companies that don't use illegals in other parts of the nation. The same company big shot claims that the illegals are their best workers. No doubt because they work cheap and have no rights.

The problem starts and ends with employers. There are some farm related business that may not survive the absence of illegals, but I would rather pay more for oranges grown in South America than pay more taxes to care for and school illegals. As for service jobs, including construction, the idea that we need illegals is a lie. What do you think, some hotel is not going to clean their rooms if they can't get cheap labor, or some building isn't going to get built because they can't get cheap labor? Nonsense, these employers will have to pay market wages for such work. There are lots of high school dropouts that would be happy with a $12/hr. cleaning job or a $20/hr. construction job. They won't do these jobs for minimum wage like illegals do, and they shouldn't have to.

The answer is to privatize enforcement as I have laid out many times before. The plan would allow illegals to turn-in other illegals and get a reward, all paid for by the employer in the form of fines. If the law is aimed at employers there would be no need to deport illegals. When the jobs dry up they will leave on their own. With that kind of enforcement we could be magnanimous toward illegals who have been in the U.S. for a long time, or have families where the spouse or some of the kids are citizens.

If conservatives who want to control illegal immigration band together with liberals who what to show compassion on illegals we might be able to overcome the business lobby in their efforts to secure cheap labor. Also, there would be no general guest worker program and the current program would be greatly cut back.

Aww,come on, Neo - look on the bright side. We'll have jack-booted INS troops rounding up illegals and marching them off to jail -- leaving the businesses with a significant percentage of their work force missing... food rotting in the fields.... and latino families homeless and in the streets.

What better reason to get the Democratic count in the Senate up above 60!

Oh boy. Another endless loop of 'nice goals. how you gonna do it.'

This loop can be applied to literally any plan or idea put forward in a 'I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I' manner. It can even be applied to DJ's very specific plan of action.

Don't say I didn't warn y'all.

The first step is to include the IRS, Social Security Administraiton, and state tax agencies in the enforcement. When a business submits tax documents is fake SSN or SSN already in use in other areas, those business get a form letter from the IRS. What they should get is an audit from the IRS, a visit from ICE, and a vist from the state tax collector to find out what else they are cheating on.

When a business nows that it is risking its future if it hires an illegal alien, the illegal immigraiton will stop.

Step 1 is to start enforcing the laws against employing illegal aliens. Step two is put more teeth in the laws against employing illegal aliens. When they get hungry enough they'll go home.

Easy-START ENFORCING THE LAW THAT IS ON THE BOOKS NOW.

If it was that easy it would have been done already.

No, it is not particularly easy to go out and actually do it. But yes, it is that simple.

Lee:

leaving the businesses with a significant percentage of their work force missing... food rotting in the fields.... and latino families homeless and in the streets.

You posted 2 minutes too late, Lee, as Mac Lorry has already addressed that just as I have on Wizbang Blue not terribly long ago.

I'll let my post there stand for itself since it was largely left unchallenged.

That should have read :

Easy-START ENFORCING THE LAW THAT IS ON THE BOOKS NOW.

If it was that easy it would have been done already.

-Blue Nep

No, it is not particularly easy to go out and actually do it. But yes, it is that simple.

DJ,

START ENFORCING THE LAW THAT IS ON THE BOOKS NOW

What part of that statement is difficult to understand?

How? Here is how.

The President needs to inform his underlings in the various branchs subordinate to him that they will enforce the law. He needs to request fro congress the funds for the border fence and spend them! He needs to make Department of Homeland Defense start doing their job and expeditiously start recruiting and feilding the required number of Border Patrol agents, and tell them to recall the ones that have been sent to other countries. In the interim, the President can deploy the National Guard to the U.S. Border to help apprehend trespassers, and smugglers. Apprehend, not just observe. If there aren't enough Nat'l Guard on hand, recall them from IRAQ. He can fire anybody, including the Attorney General that doesn't support his plans. Have the justice department vigorously pursue Sanctuary Cities. Have the Justice Department vigorously pursue employers that hire illegal immigrants. The EPA can show them how to enforce laws against major corporations. That's a start.

If the President of the United States does not want to enforce the Laws of the United States, he should resign, or be impeached.

Congress can put pressure on the President to do his Job. Voters can and will put pressure on Congress to do their job, and support U.S. Citizens.

The various states have already started by putting forward legislature that limits types of welfare that Illegal Immigrants can receive, sanctions agains employers etc.

Oh, and "homeless on the streets?" Can you really be considered homeless if you just refuse to go home?

That's what you meant by "boarders", right?

LOL! No need to duck DJ-----my bad. Of course I meant borders.

Thanks

The lefties are pointing to the GOP leadership, but they seem to forget that it was the Dems own leadership that was pushing this fiasco of a bill, and kept using procedural tactic after procedural tactic to bring it up again and again.

Harry Reid and Teddy Kennedy pretty much wrote it, and nobody on the left can sucessfully defend any portion of that bill, or the tactics that Reid used to shove it down our throats.

I am POed at GOP Senators who decided to just go along with this POS bill, and unless they redeem themselves soon, their primary opponents are going to get my support.

The Federal Government knows how to enforce laws. It enforces them against the unwilling all the time. Hundreds and thousands of laws are enforced by the Feds every single day.

It isn't a lack of ability to enforce laws that is hampering immigration enforcement, it is an executive branch and subordinate departments that have decided NOT to enforce immigration laws.

If the laws on the books aren't suitable for enforcement, better ones can be written. For success the Congress needs to stop trying comphrensive bills and take immigration reform one law at at time.

Has anyone noticed that the amnesty-supporters are claiming that we can't round up and deport 12 million illegals, but that we can run 24-hour background checks on all 12 million illegals? And the government can't even get a passport out to a born-in-the-USA citizen in less than 3 months.

The laws are already there. And Lee, it might have missed your keen lefty mind, but there's already at least a half-dozen guest worker programs, including one for agricultural workers.

By the way, Lee, did you know that illegals don't get paid the minimum wage? Why aren't you up in arms about that?

Hypocrisy, thy name is Lee Ward.

"I am POed at GOP Senators who decided to just go along with this POS bill, and unless they redeem themselves soon, their primary opponents are going to get my support."

And this is precisely why we have the problem with these Senators. They need to be voted out. My Senator Gregg in NH is on my target OUT list. Failing ouster in the primaries, I'll support a moonbat D for a term rather than a R who cannot be relied upon.

woo Hoo! And EXACTLY! Enforce the already existing laws.

DJ, I am on the side that something has to be done about immigration. If you recall, a number of raids are going on at work places so GW can show us ICE is doing the job. Now I suppose it will stop. I believe the senate and house should focus on securing the border. When they prove they can in fact do that, a year or two, then I am believe a very significant number of others will be willing to talk about the 12 million that are here. The bill did not need to be so comprehensive and complicated. The process was bypassed. Personally I just did not feel right about this bill. Something needs to be done and something will be done. This can't be treated like it is the only plan possible so no others will be persued.

Lee, agriculture gets as many workers as needed, as always. Like I said earlier, you are a punchline. Go away. Thanks. ww

The various states have already started by putting forward legislature that limits types of welfare that Illegal Immigrants can receive, sanctions agains employers etc.

Posted by: Matt at June 28, 2007 01:08 PM

Heard in the last day that Oklahoma is enacting some tough anti-illegal immigrant laws and it's already having an impact.

One used car dealer that usually sold 10-12 cars a week, has sold only one in the past month. Guess he was selling a lot of used cars to illegals and they aren't buying 'cuz they reckon they'll be moving along soon.

By the way, I mis-spoke earlier. Turns out there are only five guest worker programs currently in operation, one of which is specifically for "seasonal agricultural" workers.

So why do we need this bill again, Lee?

Oh, right, so the illegals can vote Democrat in 2008.

DJ, I am on the side that something has to be done about immigration. If you recall, a number of raids are going on at work places so GW can show us ICE is doing the job. Now I suppose it will stop. Posted by: WildWillie at June 28, 2007 02:05 PM

I sent an e-mail to the WH this morning. I implored the President to use the 16 months leading up to the 2008 election to prove that we can secure the border and enforce workplace employment laws. Use this time to regain the confidence of the American people that we can get this done and are serious abou it.

The next bill would do well if it didn't have Kennedy's fingerprints all over it. The Swimmer has had his paws on almost every immigration bill since he was first elected to the Senate. Fine lot of good that's done us. All he wants is to make it as easy as he can to let illegals get into the USA.

Oh, right, so the illegals can vote Democrat in 2008. Posted by: C-C-G at June 28, 2007 02:14 PM

The really cool thing about being a registered democrat voter is they don't have to be citizens. Or even alive for that matter.

Or law abiding.ww

The really cool thing about being a registered democrat voter is they don't have to be citizens. Or even alive for that matter.

And one warm body is worth two or three votes at different polling places. The Democratic Party even provides the vans!

Ok.......the defeat of THIS bill has been won.
In an earlier post, when it looked like we had flipped the needed votes, the suggestion of submitting NEW amendments right away was proposed.

I disagreed then, and I disagree now.

May I suggest, that we just played DEFENSE to a BAD bill. Lets ALL take some time this summer and come up with a good plan whether it be with existing laws or new ones, and then lets play OFFENSE with the same effort we just used.

Relax have a cold one and enjoy the summer.

"We'll have jack-booted INS troops rounding up illegals and marching them off to jail -- leaving the businesses with a significant percentage of their work force missing... food rotting in the fields.... and latino families homeless and in the streets."

What are you trying to say Lee?

Knightbrigade. One thing I did this morning was sent out a couple of emails to Senators who were stalwarts on this issue. Such as DeMint and Sessions.

Figured I had sent enough to brow beat the fence sitters, should commend the steady and firm.

What are you trying to say Lee?

He's probably trying to say we're all racists. Over on wizblues that was his theory on why this amnesty bill was going to be defeated. He promised to identify the racists two weeks ago, but he still hasn't. Shouldn't have expected honesty from a socialist.

leeward is a race card playing baiting pimp, in league with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and all the other race card playing baiting pimps.

Relax have a cold one and enjoy the summer.

Posted by: Knightbrigade at June 28, 2007 02:39 PM

We may not have much time to rest. This fairness doctrine b.s. is gaining steam fast, especially among the democratics.

leeward is a race card playing baiting pimp, in league with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and all the other race card playing baiting pimps.

Nope, just a lefty frustrated that he can't win an argument with a conservative, so he resorts to name-calling.

Poor old wee wee wardie is so frustrated that he has to comment on his own threads to have a commentor. snicker snort

"Figured I had sent enough to brow beat the fence sitters, should commend the steady and firm."

Excellent!!!! The (GOOD) guys have to hear more than disapproval.. We need to pat them on the back and support them when they represent our views.

"We may not have much time to rest. This fairness doctrine b.s. is gaining steam fast, especially among the democratics."

Yes the ideological/cultural goes on in the trenches I agree, but everyone is out of DC for at least 10 days, so enjoy my friend. Take a well deserved break enjoy family and friends. We'll be back in the battle soon enough.

To all you guys slapping Lee Lee around like a cats toy, HAHA.. don't waste too much time on libtards.
Even though it can be fun, it also can distract you.

Hopefully there will be some polling data on this.

You want polling data? A Zogby Interactive poll of 8,300 representative adults nationwide found only 38 percent supported the bill currently being considered by the Senate, while 56 percent opposed it.

http://www.upi.com/Zogby/UPI_Polls/2007/06/21/analysis_majority_oppose_immigration_bill/2755/print_view/

But, honestly, I don't need a poll to tell me that this piece of legislation was just a piece of shit. You think it was better than nothing? I think it was worse than nothing. Far worse.

The good guys won today.

I opposed (and still oppose) this bill because it grants amnesty first and gives vague promises of enforcement later.

I don't need no stinkin' poll to tell me it's a bad bill. I can think on my own without having to follow the herd of sheeple.

Alas, lefties will still wanna follow the sheeple herd wherever they go, using the polls as their weathervane.

We may not have much time to rest. This fairness doctrine b.s. is gaining steam fast, especially among the democratics.

I agree. No time for slumber. This defeat has a host of politicians steamed. They are eager for heads in the refrigerator and the Fairness Doctrine is a handy kitchen knife.

The Fairness Doctrine, according to NRO's The Corner, went down in flames in the House 309-115.

So much for another lefty plan to take over America.

So much for another lefty plan to take over America.

C-C-G, I heard some of that debate, didn't know how the final vote turned out. Some of the debate was pretty funny on the democratics side. Obey (I think) said Hannity and Rush are no more influential than Paris Hilton. Or something like that.

However, I'm not letting my guard down just yet. Banning the FCC from implementing Fairness Doctrine 2.0 is no guarantee that the democratics won't attempt to try some other sneaky attempt to muffle conservative talk radio.

Just a bit ago on DRUDGE SanFranNan says she's solidly behind getting Fairness Doctrine back. A little amendment to a budget authorization isn't going to stop them.

Curiously, it was Her Speakership who just a few short months ago denied there was going to be any attempt to reenact a Fairness Doctrine.

Not surprising, she's talking out of both sides of her face lift.

Not surprising, she's talking out of both sides of her face lift.

Of course, she's a lefty, what do ya expect?

Hey, John in CA... drop me a line (through my blog, to keep spam down)... I got an idea ya might like.

People are aggressively ignorant about this issue. There is no citizenship for any sort of amnesty, none was ever seriously proposed. That would be insanity.

Citizenship has always been a fairly difficult process for foreigners to obtain, and probably always will be.

The issue is about immigration papers, a "green card". You sorry imbeciles, there is a huge difference between a green card and citizenship. At least know the damn difference before you climb on your rickety soapboxes.

leticia olalia morales of 15501 pasadena ave#8 tustin ca 92780 submitted fake documents and paid 5000 dollars to obtain a US tourist visa. she also used fake employment records to get a work visa. she is now applying or citizenship.