Jay, why wont Bush inforce the laws already on the books? Please change "politicians" to Bush "administration".

For once, I agree with you, Barney. Bush needs to instruct his subordinates to aggressively pursue those that employ illegal aliens and the aliens themselves.

Don't let the rest of the politicians off the hook so easily. If the Congress had the xxxxs to push this, Bush would have no choice.

A day after the immigration shamnesty bill went down we already had Mel (Bushite) Martinez here in Florida telling us it was now up to US to fix the problem. These folks need a lesson in why and how they got to Washington. Go Google our Florida attempt to oust Martinez.......

Duke

"The terrorists might have legitimate grievances..." Okay, but do grievances legitimize the act of terrorism regardless of priorities? I'm sure that's not what you meant. The semantics can be confusing because I have yet to see a terrorist act as rational behavior in expressing a grievance.

I think "Politicians" is correct. This has been going on since 1986. Almost one third of the Senate has been in office that long and we have had 4 different Presidents who have completely ignored this problem. Shame on them all!

I am happy to agree with Barney to a point. I also think a Democratic president would in this political climate be equally derelict in his/her enthusiasm to enforce these laws. I believe the President showed his hand very early on in this debate. Folks who like him and dislike him both point to his trait of tending to be quite unyielding/uncompromising on issues he feels strongly about - and this is certainly one of them. Because he has been historically less than willing to enforce the current laws designed to STOP the flow of illegals across the border I do not believe he will feel obligated to do so with a package of new laws wrapped in a bill along with other the points he actually favors.

DaveD, that's precisely why so many of us were very skeptical about the claims of strong enforcement if the travesty... er... bill passed.

The solution to illegal immigration is simple, cheap, humane, and keeps enforcement going regardless of who the President is. No wonder it's being ignored. Politicians want the issue rather than the solution.

I like this... a leak on a submarine.

I just wrote about this yesterday, I have always felt that the illegals are like an invasion, no longer trying to just come over for jobs, better life but actually trying to impose their failing system on us...

The fork in the road is now, and in reflecting our choices historians will use how we handled this invasion, as how we turn out in the future.

The President is the chief law enforcement officer in the nation. He chooses, or deciders, which laws to enforce and which to ignore regardless of what laws the congress passes or how much they complain (see signing statements or Gonzolas/puppet).

Very true, Barney.

By the way, how many illegal alien arrests were there during Clinton's eight years? How many got deported?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Jay?

Can you please give me one terrorist "legitimate grievance". Truly, I haven't seen a one. All the "grievances" I've seen expressed by them center on their own ideology that Islam is destined to become a worldwide political reality and anything the kaffir does to interfer with that "reality" "offends" them and justifies every manner of violence they engage in.

It's kinda like saying a man who beats the crap out of his wife has a "legitimate grievance" that must be addressed after he stops beating her ... and all his "grievances" center on how she isn't subservient enough ("if only she didn't talk back" "if only she hadn't over cooked my dinner" "she has to stop questioning me and my decisions")

Can you imagine the outrage on the left if Bush chose to 'inforce' our laws and bring William Jefferson, Hildebeast, DiFi, etc before a grand jury.

Inforce? rofl further proof that 3rd graders post here.

Barney - I think it is pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that conservatives are not happy with the failures of President Bush on this issue. Now I would like to know just which of the democrat presidential contenders you think would enforce the current laws and actually secure the borders?

Spill a jar of honey on your patio table and you're going to experience an invasion of flies. You can sit their all day swatting flies and never reduce their numbers. The way to get rid of the flies is to clean up the honey.

Illegal immigrants are not stupid they're just poor. In their desire to get into the honey pot of jobs they think of innovative ways to get into the U.S. and to supply employers with whatever documentation they say they need. Many employers are all too willing to turn a blind eye as long as the counterfeit documents are good enough to cover their ass if the law comes calling.

Many Americans are sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants for humanitarian reasons and many feign sympathy to gain cheap labors with no legal rights.

To solve the problem of illegal immigration requires cleaning up the honey pot of jobs. The solution requires holding employer's responsible for hiring illegals if they don't follow a prescribed process. The solution requires the creation of enmity between illegals and the people who would hire them. The solution must embrace the genuine sympathy many Americans have for illegal immigrants and their families. The solution cannot rely on Federal law enforcement that waxes and wanes with the will of the President. The solution must be inexpensive for taxpayers if it's to survive in the long run. The solution must be effective.

Politicians are never going to come up with such a solution on their own. The party that turns a blind eye to voting by illegals is the party that's going to be winning most of the elections in the future. Soon illegals will be able to vote in fact, if not in law. Once that tipping point is reached the U.S. is doomed to being taken over politically by Mexico and likely within the lifetimes of many people reading this comment. At that point it's too late to recover short of another civil war.

I know none of that scares liberals but it should. The majority of illegals are Christians.

There is a simple solution, but it's too obscure to gain any support.

Notice how quickly Barney goes quiet. Give him the opportunity to attack Bush and he jumps to the task. Ask him about Clinton posture on the same issue and he retreats into silence. The majority of those voting for the amnesty bill had a d after their names. Since we have stifled the voting dead and incarcerated, the Democrats need a new influx of voters, preferably poor and needy so that Democrats can make them beholding to liberal policies by public dole. Insuring at least on generation of D voters. Barney, Kennedy was behind this shit in 1965, 1986 and now. We knew Bush had a immigration plan, but that is not what was in the Senate bill.

Jay, why wont Bush inforce the laws already on the books? Please change "politicians" to Bush "administration".

I am pleased to agree with Barney on this one. While Congress is complicit and should be ashamed, I hold Bush ultimately responsible. He unabashedly pursued this POS legislation and even used the word 'amnesty' himself. I have never been as disgusted with Washington politics as I was last week. Enforce the immigration laws we currently have and cut funding to 'sanctuary' cities and towns. Otherwise, STFU.

Right on, Barney.

Ask him about Clinton posture on the same issue and he retreats into silence.

Why do ya think I did it? [evil grin]

Sorry, but I was enjoying a beautiful Sunday. As far as "ask him about Clinton.." I found this:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html

The number of "unauthorized migrants" (which includes some who have temporary permission to live in the US or those whose immigration status is unresolved), also has grown since legalization programs began in the mid-1980s, Pew reported last month: About 180,000 a year in the 1980s; 400,000 per year from 1990-1994; 575,000 per year from 1995-1999; and 850,000 per year from 2000-2005.

The article says that during the Clinton years the number of illegals in the US was around 8.2-Mill. Since than the number is up to 20-Mill.

Now what do you have to say?

The funny/sad thing about this whole situation is that if George Bush had just been smart enough to do the right things in the right order at the right time he might very well have been able to have people ready to talk about some sort of normalization process by now. To do that, he would have needed to start showing some interest in border enforcement early in his first term or, barring that, shortly after 9/11. The Republican party controlled both houses of Congress right up till last winter. He could have started by showing some interest in actually implementing the border enforcement provisions that have been on the books since '86. After construction on a border fence was well under way and starting to show results the time would have been right to start introducing congressional bills (multiple bills, not one big all-or-nothing bill) to make it possible for some of the people who were already in the country illegally to stay legally. Since he wasn't smart enough to do things that way he ended up with nothing to show for his efforts except a lot of hard feelings among people whose support he'll still need in the coming months. Maybe our next President will be smarter.

In other words, Barney, Clinton did absolutely nothing about it.

Thanks for doing the research, tho.

CCG, living in the past is for cowards. You wanted to know, and I told you. The stats clearly show that Clinton kept illegal immigration at a lower rate than the current administration. If you take into account that the Clinton years saw the greatest growth in our economy and the lowest rate of employment it is amazing the immigration rate wasn't a lot higher (supply and demand and opportunity). Compared to the Bush years that were mostly mired in recession.

You can live in the past or you can do something about the present. Sadly, most righties want to blame Clinton for everything demanding accountablility on their President.

Ah, Jay, you forget. The bleeding is like the flooding of a submarine - it's hemorrhaging into a surgical field. Achieve hemostasis first.

Well, BG, you can also look at those same figures and deduct that illegal immigration increased while Clinton was President, and not while Bush has been, which wouldn't be any more true than what you said. From the shape of the rising curve it seems apparent that neither did anything about it. Surely you agree.
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"The stats clearly show". What is it about you lefty sophists. Do they not teach you to reason, or do you not see this, or do you do it anyway. Are you ignorant, stupid, or corrupt?

Why do I already know the answer? Lee, Paul, now you, and others, over and over, again.

Has money corrupted you? What else could explain it?
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This is actually a great example, bD, of the sort of mass delusion your sort of commenter operate under. You know it is a fact that illegal immigration has steadily increased, and you read an article with data that show that. Then you straightfacedly try to argue something different, to support a partisan political point. Here's the delusion: why do you persist in thinking you are persuasive, when you are in fact the opposite? Now is that ignorance, stupidity, corruption, or delusion?
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A thousand pardons, bD, surely you understand that I meant BG2 in the above comment. Now, one thousand pardons on the wall, take one down and pass it around. Why did I make that slip?
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