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Britain's New Prime Minister is in Denial

New PM Gordon Brown is in denial on the danger his country faces from Islamic extremists. Even after a former jihadi (if that really exists) wrote a piece in the Daily Mail just the other day explaining that the Islamic religion is the source for terrorism, Brown's administration still insists that Muslims and terrorists should not be linked together:

Gordon Brown doesn't do charisma. In contrast to Tony Blair, the new British leader has offered no emotive sound bites, no promises of tough new laws and no talk of a "war on terror" since the failed attacks in London and Glasgow.


The stern Scot's few public statements have been somber, measured and brief. Many Britons welcome the change, saying the lower-key approach may better reassure a rattled nation and prevent racial tensions from exploding.

[...]

Brown's message--in one brief televised statement and a longer TV interview--can be summarized as "keep calm and carry on." Speaking in the gruff Scottish brogue that is his trademark, he said the country faced a "sustained" threat and urged Britons to "stand together, united, resolute and strong."

He has largely remained behind the scenes, leaving public briefings to police and senior officials. Brown chaired a meeting of the government's emergency committee Saturday, but left later meetings to Smith--who as home secretary is equivalent to Britain's interior minister--and other officials.

The low-key Smith also stands in contrast to her pugnacious predecessor, John Reid, whose tough talk on terrorism was sometimes criticized for inflaming ethnic and religious tensions. In a speech to lawmakers Monday, Smith called terrorists "criminals whose victims come from all walks of life, communities and religious backgrounds." Brown has spoken of "al-Qaida" attackers but not of "Islamic" or "Muslim" terrorists.

Just pretend it didn't happen, folks. Move along. Nothing to see here. Just an isolated incident.

It appears the British citizens also want to stick their heads in the sand and wish it all away. They still haven't learned that appeasing terrorists will only get them more terrorism.

More information on Brown's appeasement policy here:

Gordon Brown has banned ministers from using the word "Muslim" in ­connection with the ­terrorism crisis.


The Prime Minister has also instructed his team - including new Home Secretary Jacqui Smith - that the phrase "war on ­terror" is to be dropped.

The shake-up is part of a fresh attempt to improve community relations and avoid offending Muslims, adopting a more "consensual" tone than existed under Tony Blair.

[...]

"There is clearly a need to strike a consensual tone in relation to all communities across the UK," the spokesman said. "It is important that the country remains united."

He confirmed that the phrase "war on terror" - strongly associated with Mr Blair and US President George Bush - has been dropped.

He's a man after John Edwards' heart.


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Comments (67)

Instead of actually being b... (Below threshold)
jim:

Instead of actually being brave and tough, what the British should really do is run around scared of a handful of thugs, invade a country that has nothing to do with the attacks, and spend millions protecting Wisconsin.

What's wrong with them?

What they should do is go i... (Below threshold)
mixti:

What they should do is go invade a country that had nothing to do with the attacks--like we did!

That will fuel extremist anger drive the moderates toward the extremeist camps and guarentee we destabilize the middle east and get some serious fucking war going.

Too bad this guy is almost as stupid as the french. At least the brits were smart enough to get on board with our brilliant iraq operations.

Well, when the Muslim horde... (Below threshold)
Gozorak:

Well, when the Muslim horde finally becomes the majority throughout western europe at least Ill have Busch Gardens The Old Country in Williamsburg

http://www.buschgardens.com/bgw/default.aspx

to remind me of what "old" Europe used to be like. Even if it offers nothing more than a simplistic caricature of European history its certainly lots more fun than the real thing.

Wow! The ever faithful igno... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Wow! The ever faithful ignorant lefties actually said we "destablized" the middle east. Wow! It was all marshmellows and pink skies before. What a deluded person. ww

Instead of actually bein... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:

Instead of actually being brave and tough...

Interesting that you define ignoring the problem that way.

My last post reminded me of... (Below threshold)
Gozorak:

My last post reminded me of this story which only goes to prove that Britain and Europe is doomed. Their top amusement park "Alton TOwers" had a Muslim only day in which all of the fun at the park was closed down and non muslims were not permitted attendance.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006300314,00.html

Interesting that you def... (Below threshold)
jim:

Interesting that you define ignoring the problem that way.

Interesting that you define not freaking out, as ignoring the problem.

The British are very smart ... (Below threshold)
russ:

The British are very smart and terrorist savey. They lived through years of it through the IRA. As for the older generation, they lived through the horrors of the blitz. Muslims are not our enemy, terrorist are and hijackers of the religion.

ww is right. Iraq is just a... (Below threshold)
jim:

ww is right. Iraq is just awesome now, and the Middle East is better than ever.

Interesting that you def... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:

Interesting that you define not freaking out, as ignoring the problem.

Not freaking out?... No
Not doing anything?... Yes
Not identifying the problem... Yes

Smart and savey? WTF? Is ha... (Below threshold)
Gozorak:

Smart and savey? WTF? Is having allowed so many Muslims to immigrate into Britain a smart and savey thing to have done? Is Britain better off because of it? Of course not.

Jim:That will ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

That will fuel extremist anger drive the moderates toward the extremeist camps and guarentee we destabilize the middle east and get some serious fucking war going.

Lets try this again, I've never gotten a coherent answer yet:

What if, Iraq never happened? What if the U.S. only faught the war in Afghanistan where the 9/11 plot was hatched and the Talaban ruled?

How would that NOT aid recruiting of terrorists or or cause Osama to say "No Mas, my job is done."

How would that have prevented jihadi terrorists to remain in, and prosper in Thailand and Indonesia?

Not to mention the Sudan, Moraco and many other places.

Gozorak,I think th... (Below threshold)
Russ:

Gozorak,

I think the Muslim immigration came mostly from their former empire of India. If one could way the benefits of whether they are better off, one must remember, the terrorist are a small number compared to the rest. The immigrants from India are education driven and do well overall.

Clearly the little lefties ... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

Clearly the little lefties on this site haven't been to the UK of late nor educated themselves about the radical islamist teachings from their mosques and it's impact on their minions and the UK politicians . I'd say it'd wake you up but you'd just explain it away in the vain of Ken Livingstone.

After all, it's easy to make the connection that the Islamfacists bomb Bali, Glascow, or trains in Spain because of Bush. By the same logic if Bill Gates were friendlier to Penguins maybe AIDS would be whipped in Africa. Typical liberal logic. But then what do you expect from people who's world view comes from Humanities 101 profs, lololol.

Come on folks, it's just AN... (Below threshold)
TR19667:

Come on folks, it's just AN ACCIDENT. They reaaly didn't MEAN it. ppsssstt...we'll just need to sit down with them and address their grievences, then all will be well....(as spoken by the young ROTC cadet Kevin Bacon in Animal House just before the crowd tramples him.

Here's a coherent answer th... (Below threshold)
jim:

Here's a coherent answer that you hopefully will not ignore, Marc:

1) we could finish and stabilize Afhganistan
2) we could have more resources, including rare Arabic translators, to use for intelligence and ops in Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East. Including the Sudan, Morocco, and elsewhere.
3) Al Qaeda would not be able to say, "See? All the Americans really want is Oil."
4) Abu Ghraib would not have happened, which helps Al Qaeda convince Muslims that we don't care if innocents are tortured and sexually abused
5) We could have greater support for our allies, who we strained relationships with by invading Iraq.
6) we wouldn't have contributed to the deaths of at least 30,000 Iraqis, by conservative estimates - each of who now has a brother, father, child, or friend who will hate us for the rest of our lives
7) we wouldn't have caused hundreds of thousands of refugees to flee Iraq, thus further destabilizing the Middle East
8) we wouldn't have given more power to Iran

Let me know if you need some more.

Oh, and by the way - sugges... (Below threshold)
jim:

Oh, and by the way - suggesting that 'Muslim' is not used in connection with the terrorism crisis, is not appeasement.

Any more than suggesting that 'Christian' not be used in connection with Timothy McVeigh or abortion killings is appeasement.

Is having allowed so man... (Below threshold)
Actual:

Is having allowed so many Muslims to immigrate into Britain a smart and savey thing to have done? Is Britain better off because of it?

It was the Labour Party that let the immigrants enter freely because it was seen by them as certain votes for the Labour Party.

Any parallels you draw with current events are strictly your own.

Hey, ODA315 - I guess the I... (Below threshold)
jim:

Hey, ODA315 - I guess the IRA terrorists were a Catholic Christian conspiracy then? Or the Ulster Unionists were a Protestant Christian conspiracy?

As for immigration, it turn... (Below threshold)
jim:

As for immigration, it turns out that Britain and Ireland are thriving, as compared with the rest of the EU. Ireland's growth in particular is something of a miracle. And both of these countries also have the freest immigration policies.

You know, that whole concept of being a place that is open and accepting, and then benefiting from those who come. Sound familiar?

Interesting that y... (Below threshold)
Interesting that you define not freaking out, as ignoring the problem.

Interesting that you define the identification of terrorists according to their ideology as "freaking out."

Just kidding, it's not really that interesting.

Interesting that you def... (Below threshold)
jim:

Interesting that you define the identification of terrorists according to their ideology as "freaking out."

Interesting that you define terrorism as being Muslim.

Is the IRA typical of Catholic thinking?

How about Timothy McVeigh, is he typical of Midwestern US Christian thinking?

Well then.

Nice try at the "all Muslims are terrorists because they're Muslim" thing.

I guess.

"being brave and tough"<br ... (Below threshold)
RScott:

"being brave and tough"
It would be an odd way to describe cattle resolutely passing through the chute, almost accurate, but odd nonetheless.

Interesting that y... (Below threshold)
Interesting that you define terrorism as being Muslim.

Less interesting that you can't tell the difference between "all terrorists are Muslims" and "THESE guys say they want to kill people because Islam tells them to." Your sidestep needs some work.

Timothy McVeigh said he killed all those people as revenge for what he thought the U.S. government did in Waco and Ruby Ridge. I don't remember him bringing God into it, but if you think that's why he did it, feel free to drag him into it as much as you want.

jim: "Oh, and by the way... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

jim: "Oh, and by the way - suggesting that 'Muslim' is not used in connection with the terrorism crisis, is not appeasement."

It's not? If it were ANYBODY but you, jim, I might think they WERE joking. But YOU are hopelessly ignorant.

These Jihadis were acting IN THE NAME OF ALLAH (or is it ALLEN?). This is ALL about Islam. 100%

The fact that not all Muslims are terrorists does NOT mean we cannot point out that 100% of those who ARE terrorists ARE Muslim. 100%

Get it?

There may have been a stray Nazi in WWII that was NOT German. But damn near 100% WERE German. So we beat the SHIT out of GERMANY!!

Get it...yet?


Are we better off having al... (Below threshold)
Russ:

Are we better off having allowed Irish, who were once vilified, to come to America, hell yea. Are we better off letting those "swarthy" east europeans come, the Italians, the germans? Yes

We have 5 million hard working , law abiding, muslims here, and 4000 in our armed services. The fanatics hijacked their religion.

Well, tell you what Jim Tre... (Below threshold)
jim:

Well, tell you what Jim Treacher - how about Rev. Jim Jones, committed Christian?

Or all those hard-core Christainservative (tm) abortionist assassins and clinic bombers? They're doing it for God, in their own words.

Now, we would say that they took Christianity off a cliff in their own, weird direction.

But apparently you're saying Muslim extremists are doing it because they're Muslim, not because they're crazy extremists.

Maybe you should rethink that.

Let me know if you... (Below threshold)
Let me know if you need some more.

Posted by: jim at July 3, 2007 08:09 PM

But just imagine, the best "wouldn't have..." of all is we wouldn't have given deranged lefties spurious talking points. All the jims of the world would still be sucking their thumbs.

But apparently you... (Below threshold)
But apparently you're saying Muslim extremists are doing it because they're Muslim, not because they're crazy extremists.

I'm not saying that. They're saying that. They're saying it quite a lot.

I don't remember ever defending the actions of Jim Jones or any of the other nuts you mention, but now that you bring them up, I agree that they're bad guys. If your point is that people do awful things in the name of religion, I couldn't agree more. I just don't see why we should avoid talking about their motives just because it might make somebody uncomfortable.

The fact that not all Mu... (Below threshold)
jim:

The fact that not all Muslims are terrorists does NOT mean we cannot point out that 100% of those who ARE terrorists ARE Muslim. 100%

You can point out whatever you want. But the PM of England is being smart enough to not freak out, and to actually be effective instead.

You don't decrease destructive hate by increasing hate in response, you see. You go after those who are being destructive, and you manage yourself so you aren't lashing out at moderates who can help you.

You know, a sane and productive response. How about that?

jim...you should truly seek... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

jim...you should truly seek medical attention.

Take the total number of terrorists attack worldwide in the past 10 years. Now EXCLUDE all those that are NOT Muslim related.

You are left with 99.9999999999% (apparently there was a fistfight in Deepswamp, Brazil that was about fishing or some such)

Those of us fond of ROUNDING will find that 100% of all terrorism is MUSLIM.

That means that although not ALL Muslims are terrorists, ALL terrorists are MUSLIM.

Getting it yet? Even a tiny bit?

Jim Treacher, I have no pro... (Below threshold)
jim:

Jim Treacher, I have no problem at all talking about people's motives.

I just think it's a pointless mistake to say they're doing this ***because*** they're Muslim.

That is, I think, a reasonable interpretation of this statement of yours:

Interesting that you define the identification of terrorists according to their ideology as "freaking out."

Their ideology is not a typical interpretation of Muslim religion, any more than Jim Jones' ideology is a typical interpretation of Christian religion.

So to just identify them as Muslim, provides no useful information, and lumps them together with a bunch of other people who are **not** crazy killers out to kill us with their scary killing craziness.

And I guess we shouldn't me... (Below threshold)

And I guess we shouldn't mention that most of these latest terrorists in the UK are doctors, because then we'd be saying all doctors are terrorists. "Interesting that you define terrorism as graduating from medical school!" That makes about as much sense as what you're saying.

Justrand, see if you can se... (Below threshold)
jim:

Justrand, see if you can see what i'm saying in 9:15. That's my point to you as well.

jim: "You can point out ... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

jim: "You can point out whatever you want. But the PM of England is being smart enough to not freak out, and to actually be effective instead."

No! He is doing the Neville Chamberlain two-step.

The enemy is NOT at the gates in Britain...the enemy is already within. Brown needs to NAME that enemy. The enemy is the brand of ISLAM that is overruning his country.

OVER HALF of all Muslims in Britain consider themselves MUSLIMS FIRST...and Britains a DISTANT second!! DISTANT.

jim...I agree with the 9:15... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

jim...I agree with the 9:15 comment COMPLETELY!

p.s. 9:15 was me!!

Cheers!

I just think it's ... (Below threshold)
I just think it's a pointless mistake to say they're doing this ***because*** they're Muslim.

So they're lying when they say that's why they're doing it? If some guy says he went around killing people because his dog told him to, that doesn't mean all people with dogs are serial killers. Think, man.

Common Sense is just a bump... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

Common Sense is just a bumper sticker slogan.

I love bears. I watch the ... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

I love bears. I watch the Nature channel and say "ahhhhh" when the bears are on.

If I was out in the woods and a bear threatened me or my family I would shoot it full of as many holes as my gun could produce (aproximately 15 depending on the magazine in the gun)

I might even re-load and shoot it some more.

Re-capping...I love bears

So we need to show some Isl... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

So we need to show some Islamist Extremists more love?

Justrand,Just don'... (Below threshold)
Russ:

Justrand,

Just don't go on a crusade to kill all bears. ; )

Have a great 4th of July all! We have a great country.

Jim:Here's a c... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

Here's a coherent answer that you hopefully will not ignore, Marc:

But you make it so easy to. Anyway...

1. (on finishing the job in Afghanistan) Osama has your answer. Read his answer the the question "Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US?"

2. (more resources) And that changers how with no Iraq? De we start a draft of military and translation personnel? What we have is what we have nothing changes no matter where we take the fight.

3. (Al Qaeda would not be able to say, "See? All the Americans really want is Oil.")

Horse shit, they would just find another excuse.

4. (Abu Ghraib would not have happened, which helps Al Qaeda convince Muslims that we don't care if innocents are tortured and sexually abused)

An isolated incident, let them claim it all they want. And Again they would just shift the goal posts and find another just as invalid reason.
And BTW, the world's PRESS has used the incident as a battering ram against the U.S. more than the jihadists.

5. (We could have greater support for our allies, who we strained relationships with by invading Iraq.)

Like who? Russia, Germany and France?

That aside despite Iraq and the alleged hate from allies over it, ALL the NATO countries are involved in Afghanistan and have been from the start.

6. (each of who now has a brother, father, child, or friend who will hate us for the rest of our lives)

Hypothetical guy, you don't know that to be fact any more than I do.

7. Possible, but just eho has been "destablized" by Iraqi refugees?

8 (we wouldn't have given more power to Iran)
And what makes you think the raving lunatics that run the place wouldn't have grabbed more middle east power.

Iraq probably speeded up the process but to believe they would try NOT to gain more power or to believe they would sit there and quietly waste away as a third world economy where 40% of the population is unemployed is NUTS.

You know, a sane a... (Below threshold)
You know, a sane and productive response. How about that?

Posted by: jim at July 3, 2007 09:13 PM

You mean like all those sane and productive responses prior to 9/11 that prevented 9/11 from happening?

Well, when the savages say ... (Below threshold)
pinkbottom:

Well, when the savages say that they are motivated by Islam and when hundreds if not thousands of mainline Islamic clerics, political leaders, and cultural figures support and encourage such acts of terrorism and violence then yes it is fair to say that they are doing it because of their Muslim beliefs. Timothy McVeigh was an extremist and a mass murderer and a terrorist but once he was arrested and convicted that threat ended. No religious or political or cultural figures in this country condoned or applauded what he did. No one was dancing or celebrating in the streets because of what he did...No copy cat attacks were carried out in the name of what he did.

pinkbottom,I wish ... (Below threshold)
At Last:

pinkbottom,

I wish you could have seen CNN's special on Islam in Britain yesterday. Most mainstream Muslims abhor extremists, and the loony ones aren't even ordained.

You mean like all those ... (Below threshold)
jim:

You mean like all those sane and productive responses prior to 9/11 that prevented 9/11 from happening?

John, I presume you're talking about how President Bush demoted Richard Clarke? And how he and Cheney so ignored the threat of international terrorism that they didn't even hold one single meeting on it until after 9/11?

Or I guess you're referring to how Bush responded to the people who came to Bush during his one-month August 2001 vacation, on his magickal playtime ranch with no animals. They presented him with the briefing we all know well know, titled "Bin Laden determined to attack US". His response? "OK, you've covered your ass now."

Now, that's sane and productive effectiveness and leadership in action!

And pinkbottom, all those a... (Below threshold)
jim:

And pinkbottom, all those abortion-clinic snipers and bombers say they're motivated by Christ. And they hold big rallies and parties and dance around, and some of them treat those killers like saints and martyrs.

I suggest we treat all these terrorists like they're crazy, and not blame other people who are sane.

There's a huge difference b... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

There's a huge difference between a lone actor and an organization.

Tim McVeigh and abortion clinic bombers where one or two man shows. Not a network of tens or hundreds of thousands (and millions if you count supporters).

Secondly, guess how the rest of us Christians treated them? We tracked down and executed McVeigh and put the others in jail when we could catch them. I can't say the same for OBL who is resting comfortably thanks to friends in Pakistan.

It's not that you have extremists. Everyone does. It's how that community treats them. And I sure don't see a lot of action against them from the Islamic Community that isn't coerced by the West.

jim: "abortion-clinic sn... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

jim: "abortion-clinic snipers and bombers say they're motivated by Christ"

The last such was???????????? (and WHEN, of course)

I take it you are claiming that the actual percent of Muslim terrorists versus all terrorists in the last 10 years is NOT 99.9999999999%, but in reality 99.9999999997%.

Right?

Damn...you might be right!

Ah yes, the poor Brits w/ a... (Below threshold)
charlie:

Ah yes, the poor Brits w/ a government that won't simply trumpet fear & hate to a fascist drumbeat to whip the populace into an hysterical frenzy to trample their freedoms and hand their nation over to thug law-breaking tyrants like Bush/Cheney.

Is it just me or all of "ji... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Is it just me or all of "jim's" commemts a copy of his last one? He sounds like a broken record. But when you have no answers for anything, I guess that's par for thr course.

Charlie, that's a hilarious... (Below threshold)

Charlie, that's a hilarious comment because it illustrates just how ignorant you are. The British are already doing more wiretapping than we are domestically in the US, they are doing more confinement orders ordering people not to leave their homes w/o trial, and they've gotten Parliament to authorize detention of up to a month w/o trial or charges and Brown has announced he is going to ask for 90 days.

The British gov't already has far more draconian powers - and they are using them - than the Bush admin. But you still had to write that ignorant comment.

charlie...you and jim are a... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

charlie...you and jim are a match made in heaven...or San Franciso.

yup...the "thug law-breaking tyrants like Bush/Cheney" have certainly "trampled our freedoms".

I KNOW it's true...but can you just, uh, remind me again which freedoms, PRECISELY, have been "trampled???

PRECISELY. Not that I think you're full of shit, or anything like that. K?

At Last:I wish... (Below threshold)
marc:

At Last:

I wish you could have seen CNN's special on Islam in Britain yesterday. Most mainstream Muslims abhor extremists, and the loony ones aren't even ordained.

Would it matter whether the show was watched or not?

The larger point is when 10's of thousands of Muslims stream thru the streets in protest to the hijacking of their religion then I might given them a pas as a whole, til then they are all on my suspect list.

Jim:

"Bin Laden determined to attack US"


I shouldn't be be, but I'm surprised you came up with that idiocy.

What precisely was the target Osama was determined to hit? Come on guy none of the investigations conducted could. What "inside baseball" info do you possess?

The only way to deal with i... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

The only way to deal with idiots like Dim jim is to not respond to their drivel. Every post of his is wrong, full of shit, and a lie. Not necessarily in that order. Someone (probably Lee Ward) lies and jim swears to it. Dim jim is part of the Lee Ward think tank. He is an anti-American traitor who blames us for everything. Unless, there is a Democrat in charge, then it is Bush's fault. Even if the incident happened before Bush was in office. Dim jim's excuse for a mind is probably drug addled. If one reviews all of jims posts here at Wizbang, one gets a first hand view of dementia. jim, if you are not a moslem extremist, you are missing a good opportunity. You appear to be on their side.

I suppose everyone noticed ... (Below threshold)
Robert the original:

I suppose everyone noticed the doctor's club thing in the latest round of bombing. One starts to think...

The first thing is that the immigration barn doors are wide open and the second thing is that you can forget about those poor, unfortunate, misunderstood Muslims as the cause, 'cause it just ain't so.

The other thing is that wonderful health care system we've all heard so much about.

When you run one of these behemoths, it always comes down to spending money, saving money or lengthening the wait times.

What better way to save money than to import a bunch of lame-ass "Asian" doctors educated in the finest schools in Pakistan and Sudan.

Probably get about ten bucks an hour.

And think about the next guy who goes in for a vasectomy and realizes that he is placing the family jewels in the hands of terrorist wannabees so incompetent they can't set fire to gas.

And then we can all raise a glass to our system, problems and all.

See, this what makes postin... (Below threshold)
jim:

See, this what makes posting here worthwhile.

I get to bring information that some here simply have not been made aware of by their typical channels.

Marc, are you actually doubting that Bush received a Presidential Daily Briefing while he was on his month-long August 2001 vacation, titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack US"?

All I know is the title. But it's not due to any insider information.

Don't take my word for it.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

Some excerpts:

"Al Qaeda members -- including some who are U.S. citizens -- have resided in or traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure that could aid attacks."

"...We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Sheikh" Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

The FBI is conducting approximately 70 full-field investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives."

Now, Bush could have held a meeting. He could have even picked up the phone and talked with Richard Clarke, who he demoted and kicked out of cabinet meetings. He could have called and asked Condi about this, or Cheney. He could have done any number of different things. And had Bush done any one of them, and 9/11 still happened, he could say he tried.

But Bush did not do one goddamn thing.

And Marc, you seem to have not heard about this at all, through your typical news channels. Who do you listen to? Is it Hannity? Is it Rush? Is it O'Reilly? Coulter?

Who is it who is clearly not giving you the full information?

Jim:Marc, are ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

Marc, are you actually doubting that Bush received a Presidential Daily Briefing while he was on his month-long August 2001 vacation, titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack US"?

No nitwit read what was written. Quote anything in the comment that you interpret as my not knowing about the PDB?

Don't strain yourself... I'd hate to see you ruin a good monitor with sprayed gray matter, such as it is.

A question from your except: What would you have Bush do ring all "federal buildings in New York" with ten deep lines of FBI agents?

That aside, the fact the FBI or CIA couldn't corroborate "reporting, such as that from a ---- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft" kinda blows your premise out of the water.

Yep... move along, no hijacked plane to see hear...according to the PBD.

But heaven forbid your own link make my point for me right?

I'll ask again... what were the targets that could have been acted on and contained in that PDB?

marc, jim told you in his l... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

marc, jim told you in his last response EXACTLY what Bush could done to save all those lives on 9/11...EXACTLY!

"Now, Bush could have held a meeting. He could have even picked up the phone and talked with Richard Clarke,"

3,000 lives could have been saved if he had just done ONE of those things!!

Now imagine if had held a meeting AND called Richard Clarke up on the phone??? No terrorism ANYWHERE (or crime for that matter), cancer cured, no global warming, etc...

Thank you, jim, for shedding light on what COULD have been. Drat.

The Brits are at fault beca... (Below threshold)
waaaaaaah:

The Brits are at fault because a bunch of retards detonating shitty bombs doesn't make them all switch to rubber sheets! Waaaaaaah! I'm a fucking baby who reads the National Review and Weekly Standard! Waaaaaaah! I don't even realize that my batshit-crazy paranoia is exactly what the fucking terrorists want! Waaaaaaaaah! Every other country should feel exactly the same about terrorism as the twenty-eight-percenters that think Preznit Bush is not an incompetent hick retard!

Soccer hooligans are a bigger problem in the UK than terrorists. You people are stupid.

waaaaaaah: "Soccer hooli... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

waaaaaaah: "Soccer hooligans are a bigger problem in the UK than terrorists."

On Independence Day waaaaaaah has chosen to be independent of rationale thought. Actually, waaaaaaah chooses this EVERY DAY!

When are all these abortion... (Below threshold)
Dirk:

When are all these abortion clinic bombings by CRAZY CHRISTIANS taking place that Lefties hypothetically worry about? I haven't even heard of one happening since the 90's. Are Lefties still worried that Nirvana will make a comeback too?

Justrand thinks he/she gets... (Below threshold)
waaaaaaah:

Justrand thinks he/she gets a day of amnesty from being a retard because somebody signed a piece of paper on this date a few hundred years ago! Waaaaaaaaah! Justrand likes to ignore the implicit substantive point of the stupid post I made a second ago by shoving a flag up his/her own ass! Waaaaaaaaaaah!

(To reiterate: you're a coward, and the terrorists have already broken your will to psychologically resist their shabby efforts as a patriotic American ought to.)

waaaaaaah, or as your frien... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

waaaaaaah, or as your friends call you: "Dickwad", your "somebody signed a piece of paper on this date a few hundred years ago" is even more insulting than your personal attacks on me.

FOAD...soon. And painfully, if at all possible.

I'm Justrand, and I'm takin... (Below threshold)
waaaaaah:

I'm Justrand, and I'm taking my ball and going home! Waaaaaaaaah!!!! Somebody accused me of letting the terrorists win by being a big fucking coward, so I swear at him. Waaaaah!!! I got all pissy because he accused me of using faux-patriotism to deflect a substantive criticism of my raison d'etre on this shitty blog, in this childish conversation about scary brown doctors! Waaaaaaaaaah!!!

Honestly, though--"dickwad"? That's what you've got? And asking somebody you've never met to die, painfully? You sound like a jihadist. You're another casualty of 9/11, a grown adult reduced to a sniveling baby, yelping on the internet about Islamofascists instead of living your life. What good are you doing in the war against the jihadists anyway? You going to smite them with your dull wit and fast food halitosis?

Cool Marc, glad that you've... (Below threshold)
jim:

Cool Marc, glad that you've read that and are aware that it happened. some are not.

As for your question:

I'll ask again... what were the targets that could have been acted on and contained in that PDB?

I don't know. Some parts of the PDB are still classified; but it seems clear that Bush didn't know.

ALthough it isn't clear that Bush would have done anything if he did know. Because he did....nothing.

And you see, doing nothing is a hard thing to defend. You can do something and simply have done wrong, but you can still say you tried, and that shows you cared.

Bush did absolutely nothing. Which shows he didn't even try, which shows he didn't take these threats seriously - when he should have. When Richard Clarke, who'd been demoted, was trying anything he could to get a meeting with the President on this.

That's dereliction of duty, pure and simple. You know it and I know it.

No, Jim, you don't know it.... (Below threshold)

No, Jim, you don't know it. You've invented it. And to delude yourself into your fantasies you've taken the word of self-promotors like Clarke and you've puffed a bunch of hot air into an empty bag devoid of real facts. This is just more BDS not serious argument.




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