Just as more than half of all Muslims in Britain consider themselves "Muslims FIRST, and Britains SECOND", these "Doctors" obviously consider themselves "Muslims FIRST and Doctors SECOND"

In fact, to these and other morons of their ilk, they are Muslims FIRST and EVERTHING ELSE SECOND!

Islam supersedes the Hypocratic Oath.

Oops, I meant "the unnamed diverse ethnicity of some groups supersedes the Hypocratic Oath."

These people still live in the dark ages. They are less civil then animals. Most don't have the least idea what the rest of the world does around them. They only know what the socalled people in charge want them to know. The only way to deal with this type of foe is force. Time to start using a bigger stick when we "speak" to them.

Jay, you're pretty much just going to have to give up and deal with the fact that a horrific number of additional people are going to be killed before enough people get it through their heads that we have a problem.

It's easier for them to just stick their heads in the sand and blame it all on domestic political rivals, rather than think people out there want to kill them simply for being who they are.

While the Dr's oath is different than the oath our elected critters take when they assume office, seems like all kinds of people ignore their oath.

I still think Bush's second mistake was stopping in Iraq! We should have rolled through Iran and Syria, and just maybe this BS would be over with.

And a good point Jay, how will anyone know that we won? Unless we take the gloves off, and use unlimited force, we may fight this battle for many years. Since the military is having a hard time recruiting soldiers, perhaps the draft will come back.

I don't know that using "unlimited" force or compromising all our principles are necessary to win this battle. I do believe that we have to re-evaluate certain things we hold dear to varying degrees and make some compromises based on how dear we hold them - and then have the wisdom to realize when it is no longer necessary to make those compromises in order to ensure our survival. This is no mean feat.

Of course, different people have different ideas on what we should compromise. Torture is one of them we have been round and round on. But, while we are willing to define torture in more succinct terms and act to employ that which may be abhorent under normal circumstances, when applied to the very issue of the extreme tortures employed by our enemy, it pales in comparison. Lines are still drawn though and we are able retain some level of humanity and respectability.

This is not all or nothing. We need to explore gray areas. We HAVE to.

Now I'm fully expecting someone to pipe in and make my words sound more extreme than they are and try to force my hand in describing what I think is acceptable so they can later berate me for it. I won't fall into this trap. There are people much more qualified than I to make those decisions and I will defer to them and hope that I can at least be informed of their decisions, whether I agree or not.

Torture is only one contentuous issue. But as long as we are up against an enemy, to which nothing, absolutely nothing, is sacred, we are doomed to extinction if we continue to demand perfection and give no leeway to those who would have the bravery and courage to fight on our behalf against those who would force us all to their will or just as soon see us die in the most horrible way they can dream up.

Jay

The indisputable fact remains that this is the situation we find ourselves in, and we need to deal with it NOW.

Well said.

Allen

Since the military is having a hard time recruiting soldiers, perhaps the draft will come back.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9937581

Jay writes, "and if we don't pay that price now, it will only be higher in the future."

Since he uses the term "we" what is Jay doing today to "pay that price?"

Can Jay and anyone else reading Wizbang, honestly look in the mirror and say, "I did my part today, I paid the price."

Try doing it for a week, until you can no longer face yourself in the mirror.

Islam can win. Simply through demographics -- the only thing Islam can do well is breed.

Of course, such a victory would be a disaster for humanity. Islam is a parasite living off the hosts of other cultures. All the things we take for granted, science, technology, compassion for strangers, democracy, capitalism, etc, would be lost in a world ruled by Sharia.

Nice "chickenhawk" type statement there JAF. Douche.

No Friend Of Mine:

You do me a tremendous compliment, saying that what this broken-down wreck of a man does will make all the difference in the world as to the truth of what I say. But I really must decline the honor.

In addition to what Duncan said, see also "shooting the messenger." Doesn't make the message any less true, but it might make you feel a smidgen better.

Briefly.

Denial is such a wonderful thing, is it not?

J.

JAF,

Do I get credit for 20 years service? Or is the fact that I hit the retirment mandate and retired 2 years ago take that away?

President GWB is our "aggressor" towards Islam?......We better find more competent leadership than this.

Jay, I think you should feel proud that the voting spammers seem to have chosen you over even Lorie to attack.

I think all the "doctors" involved in the UK attacks were young ones with little real life experience. Sadly, the ones with many years experience in UK and US from "Asian" backgrounds will suffer the backlash, perhaps an intended result of this plot.

Not a Proud American:

You have obviously done nothing worthwhile to earn the freedom of speech we enjoy in this great Nation of ours. You only abuse it and choose to forget that you are speaking to real people, human beings, on this blog. Spouting thoughtlessness and arrogance will never make a powerful statement toward the peace that we all want.

Some of us would have been willing to pay that "ultimate" price but were unable to because of limitations. This is a day of celebration of the freedoms we do experience and take for granted every day. So, in spite of your dour "high note" in the midst of what should be a day of joy and commemoration, I am going to celebrate with another "popper". "Shake it up and slam it!"

Happy Independence Day, Jay! Nice post!

"Nice "chickenhawk" type statement there JAF. Douche."

I have to say whomever developed the "yell chickenhawk" defense came up with a rebuttal that sure makes people feel good. Whenever you feel that intrusion into your zone of safety you yell out chickenhawk.
__

"Do I get credit for 20 years service? Or is the fact that I hit the retirment mandate and retired 2 years ago take that away?"

You get "credit" for yesterday but not "today" and certainly not next week. Did Islamic Facism stop when you retired? "Retirment mandate," that is a new term. US Code allows enlisted soldiers to serve until age 60 and officers until 28/32 years of commissioned service. Have you heard about retiree voluntary mobilizations? I am sure that you are a highly talented individual with 20 years of service. Why not put that service back to good use for the cause and put the uniform back on? Or is up to someone else? Or is Islamic Facism not such a threat?

--

"saying that what this broken-down wreck of a man"

You are doing yourself a disservice. In 20 years when your children or grandchildren ask you what you did to defeat Isamic Facism do you want to tell them you were a blogger?

Have you actually taken the effort to see what you can do to help the war effort. Have you gone through a MEPS physical? Have you contacted US Civilian Agencies to get a civilian job and go over? Have you put in an application with a contractor firm?

I do not think you as broken down as you think you are. Set the example for your peers, you will then be able to look in that mirror everyday.

"Some of us would have been willing to pay that "ultimate" price but were unable to because of limitations."

No one is asking anyone to "pay the ultimate price."

The military, civilian agencies and contractors are looking for a few good cooks, drivers, programmers, mechanics and this that next thing. Those are important jobs that need to be filled in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Limitations" is a feel good cop out excuse worthy of a liberal. You will know that you tried after you have talked to a recruiter, talked to a recruiter at a civilian agency and talked to a contractor recruiter.

If I have children in 20 years, it'll be a medical miracle, No Friend. I made sure of that already.

But I see you are still obsessed with ME. It's so much easier to attack me than refute my arguments, isn't it? Just for the sake of argument, No Friend, let's say that I'm a veteran with 2 Medals of Honor and a triple amputee from service. Or that I'm 19 and currently on leave from my third tour in Iraq. or I'm 24 with no job and a serious drug dependency.

How does any bit of that affect whether or not what I say is true?

The answer is, it doesn't. But since you are intellectually incapable of actually refuting my arguments, you find it much easier to make ad hominem attacks against me and those who agree with me. If you challenge us enough, maybe we'll shut up and you won't have to deal with the reality of what we're saying. That's a great strategy there.

Call me chickenhawk? Fine. Better than being a chickenshit like you.

J.

Jay, do your readers a great service. Go down to a recruiting station and ask them about the options that are open to you, then write about it. Take the testing, then write about it. Take the physical then write about it. Then, if you decide not to swear in, write about it.
If age is an issue, ask them about the Guard. "Trust me," recruiters do not bite.

Do the same thing with a civilian agency, then do it with a contractor.

You might not take the final step, but a reader that otherwise thought they too were too old or too broken down just might do it.

""Limitations" is a feel good cop out excuse worthy of a liberal. You will know that you tried after you have talked to a recruiter,"

Your presumptuous nature is also a waste of time. You know nothing about what the people here "have tried" (or actually done)except what you think you know. Don't bore me with your arrogance and ignorance.

No Friend, this is your last chance. You can discuss the ISSUE, or you can make one last comment about me.

Your call...

J.

JAF,

You jackass. My family and I HAVE sacrificed for this country, and my assumption is that I have spent more time in the Middle East than you have as many of your kind haven't spent more than a few hours outside of their mom's basement.

I am going to my own blog and write exactly what Jay said. Then, as Jay says, has anything about what Jay wrote changed? Hmm. Could you still write the drivel about "yell chickenhawk as if it is some kind of defense" line then to me? Someone that has apparently gone over some imaginary line in your mind of having "sacrificed enough"? Like I said above... douche.

JAF-

Shut up, asshole.

"Since he uses the term "we" what is Jay doing today to "pay that price?""

The term "we" was used in the sense of us as a collective society. So the actions of a single person aren't really relevant in making Jay tea's point.

But since you asked, the answer is that every person here at Wizbang (except your fellow trolls) supports (and will continue to support) those in power that recognize the seriousness of the threat and are willing to do something about it, and not the candy asses that downplay the seriousness of the war on terror, like that dumbshit John Edwards.

"I have to say whomever developed the "yell chickenhawk" defense came up with a rebuttal that sure makes people feel good. Whenever you feel that intrusion into your zone of safety you yell out chickenhawk."

That's all well and good, but you've not said anything to suggest that your chickenhawk argument has any merit at all. As Jay Tea has said, its attacking the messenger, not the message. If you disagree that if we don't pay now we're going to pay later, please explain why.

You sound alot like the irrational retard Jim- any relation?

[continuing to NOT FEED THE TROLLS]

The "Oath" no longer is recited at most US medical schools - at least not in the unadulterated version you quote above. The anti-abortion line was one of the first to cause modern challenges in the 60's, and the anti-euthanasia, then respect-your-elders lines quickly followed as politically incorrect.

Historically there have always been physicians who have taken honorable warrior as well as despicable slime roles in violent conflict. These fellows deserve no awards, other than the Darwin Award. May they be deported and punished by Islamic Justice in their countries of origin. I'd favor disembowelment and dismemberment for their punishment, which would be relatively equivalent to the pain and suffering they were planning to inflict.

JAF
You ignore the massive private sector infrastructure that supports, builds, cretaes, discovers and delivers what the world's greatest millitary needs. And, yes, they profit from it, as they should.
Taking your witless, inane, and clearly prvocative prattling to its ultimate conclusion would have had Einstein, Oppenheimer and Teller storming the beaches at Guadalcanal. I thank God our leaders put them in the lab and industry. I'm glad Murrow was given a microphone and not a rifle. The list is endless...

Hey Jay...did you notice the posting about Gore's kid? ...I remember you rightfully telling me the children are off limits....(or is that limited to Republicans?)...anyway
Happy 4th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR_V7tR2Cww

nogo the -------------------- rhymes with.

I'm posting this again because I left out my final sentence, and it is now spell checked.

JAF
You ignore the massive private sector infrastructure that supports, builds, creates, discovers and delivers what the world's greatest military needs. And, yes, they profit from it, as they should.
Taking your witless, inane, and clearly provocative prattling to its ultimate conclusion would have had Einstein, Oppenheimer and Teller storming the beaches at Guadalcanal. I thank God our leaders put them in the lab and industry. I'm glad Murrow was given a microphone and not a rifle. The list is endless...

I'm thankful for Henry Kaiser. Look it up.

perhaps the draft will come back.

Why are so many people so enthusiastic about this?

We meet our recruiting goals. If we need to grow the military and can't meet our recruiting and retention goals, the answer is to increase the pay and benefits. Not implement a draft.

How would you like it if the company you worked for needed ten new employees, and instead of recruting them, you appealed to the government to fill those needs?

So, the government goes out and grabs two or three out of college, a couple off the streets downtown, two who just started a business, one who just got out of high school and was happy loafing and doing nothing, a couple more who had been working quite happily and prosperously in a company, then sent them to you for four years.

Bet those guys would be quite happy and productive employees for your company.

Why would you want to impose that on the military, that doesn't want a draft?

JAF should and can not be answered because he is not asking a question. It is just more liberal bleating.

The real answer is private armies to defend our cities and towns... yeah, that's it, our own private armies we man and pay for ourselves...great idea...

my son is in afganastan ;~( i want to see him... screw bush!!!!! i want to see my baby.

how can you assholes sleep at nigt?

RPLY, U ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The draft isn't coming back, and no one hates the idea of the draft more than the military. We don't want a bunch of people who don't want to be there.

Few things annoy me more than, oh, hell, Charlie Rangel I think it was, repeatedly reintroducing a draft bill and then going on college speaking tours trying to scare students because "they" reintroduced a draft bill, without telling people that HE did it.

Mama, please, thank your son for his valor and service. Thank you for raising a son who felt the call of duty and service.

Few things annoy me more than, oh, hell, Charlie Rangel I think it was, repeatedly reintroducing a draft bill and then going on college speaking tours trying to scare students because "they" reintroduced a draft bill, without telling people that HE did it.

Oh gosh, yes. Just in the past couple of weeks I saw a survey where it indicated people think the Republicans will implement the draft!

That's a good bit of sleight of hand on the demos part.

Mama, have you seen this post on Wizbang: Nearly 600 U.S. Troops Reenlist in Baghdad on Independence Day

Why would they do that, even when their Mom's, wives, kids, family all want them back at home?

Doesn't that give you all the confidence in the world when you go see any Doctor from the Middle East? Not this old bird, if they can't speak english (that I can understand) I will not put my life in their hands. I also check they medical certificates to 'practice' medicine. Medical schools on an unknown island is not a great recommendation to allow them to Practice in this country. $5,000 or less will buy you a medical degree in any field. I put that in the class with the $35 license to preach. Now we'll have to investigate every death that has occured when the attending doctor was an Islamic nut. They've most likely been killing people (patients) by the thousands.

Mamma want to see her baby. A grown man with the balls to join the military. Do you have to wonder why so many Vets stick a shotgun in their mouth and blow their brains all over the ceiling. Mamma's like this would make anyone do it. Is she looking for his life insurance money?

This whole Mama thing is what has annoyed me so much with the Cindy Sheehan circus.

Her son was in the Army before 9/11, before we went to Iraq. He shipped over after we went to Iraq,knowing full good and well he would go to Iraq.

He was an ADULT. He did it of his own free will with full knowledge of what it entailed.

Yet, his Mom wanted to blame everyone but the enemy who actually killed him for his death. She never acknowledged that her son was an intelligent, capable, grownup who made a decision of his own accord. She made it as though her son was somehow conned, cheated, tricked or coerced into making his choice.

Yo Mama can't spell Afghanistan; what the hell you doin' there?
=====================================

for your god damn information i failed english class, bitch!

kim, what the hell is your problem?

my boy worked his butt of... either shut your hole, or i'll kick your ASS!

kim, damn you. REPLY...or go to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!

John, i have not seen that site...i need my rest, my eyes are sore 4 crying too hard. i miss my baby. do you know what it's like 2 have a son at war? it hurts. thx 4 your support, though.

can anyone tell me how much of a screw-ball that fucker bush is? any takers? i do!

yo, 'bigboobs' , i agree w/ you! 100%!
...and change your name to something else please?!

whats wrong with bigboobs?

So, mama, why did your boy want to go over there?
=================================

so he can let you walk on the streets free!