Typically, this post is incorrect, misleading and doesn't make an attempt to find the facts.

1) It is not during class time.
2) The ACLU and several other interested organization are monitoring it.
3) The school is required to do this as long as it is not led nor directed by school personnel. A sub teacher claimed it was but an investigation did not confirm those allegations. If Christians, Jews or anyone of any other religion makes the same request they will be given the same opportunity.

Just a few pertinent facts Kim (typically) omits.

Of course, the real truth is is all about Muslims, isn't it? Right wing xenophobia raises its ugly head once again.

JFO:

Typically, this post is incorrect, misleading and doesn't make an attempt to find the facts

I appreciate you prefacing your remarks with the disclaimer.

JFO-

Since Kim accurately potrays the content of the editorial and there is no further link in the editorial, can you provide a link or reference to support your assertions and your slur?

JFO,

You are misinformed on your very first point:

From the San Diego Union Tribune:

"But critics continue to assail Carver for providing a 15-minute break in the classroom each afternoon to accommodate Muslim students who wish to pray. (Those who don't pray can read or write during that non-instructional time.)"

Yes the article does say the ACLU is monitoring it, but do you really believe that if the Catholic parents were demanding the school accomodate their child needs and the school actually did it, that the ACLU would only monitor it? Give me a break. It's like being a Muslim makes you immune to any sort of non-religious law anywhere.

And your third point is ludicrous. That's the school's explanation and it is total bunk. They liken it to a child having to take an insulin shot at a prescribed time. What a farce. This should be stopped and never allowed in a public school.

This has nothing to do with xenophobia and everything to do with hypocrisy (do they even teach that word in schools anymore?).

Alas Mike mine was a "comment" as opposed to a "post" But you're right I should have been more specific. Here it is: "The author of this post, Kim, is typically incorrect etc."

Now that that's out of the way any "comment" on Kim's "post?"

Brian; use the google thing and just read the news accounts rather than the xenophobe blogs from the right. Try it, you'll actually learn something. As for actively portraying it as an editorial, I'd say that's a cs approach. Also she did make her own statements.

JFO, what would you (and the ACLU) say if a Christian asked for 15 minutes during the school day to pray?

I suspect we all know the answer to that one, since the ACLU has opposed even "moments of silence" when students might, possibly, maybe pray.

The double-standard is typical of the left.

"a San Diego public school has set aside 15 minutes of classroom instruction time for Muslim students to pray,"

JFO, before embarrassing yourself like Barney does, learn ENGLISH first. How can you be so stupid? "Classroom instruction time" (taken directly from the article) means just that.

It won't last long however. As soon as the Christians start praying during this time, the ACLU WILL step in.

I wonder if JFO and Barney are twins separated at birth.

What kind of dirty double standards is this? how come muslim students can pray but christian students cant and as usial the inmaous ACLU take no stance unless it involves christians TIME TO REVOKE THE ACLUs tax exempt status

At the University of Michigan - Dearborn (close to the largest ME population in the US) administrators are spending big bucks to install footbaths for Muslim students.

And raising tuition and fees once again.

There is no position dear to the left that the UofM cannotleapfrog even further to the left.

"Our country is transforming demographically, religiously," said the spokesman for CAIR's San Diego chapter. "Our country has to now accommodate things that are not traditionally accounted for before."

Wrong! Muslims coming to America need to accommodate the laws of the land including separation of church and state. The problem is that separation of church and state run's counter to Islamic theology. Reason enough to stop all immigration from Muslim counties and regions. It's the height of stupidity to allow more Muslims to immigrate into this country, but that's exactly what I expect form liberals.

It's difficult to understand why religion is being brought into public schools in any form by request or not. There is a place for Muslim prayer, it's at home or at the Mosque; just as there is a place for Christian prayer, at home or at church.

If your religion restricts a particular type of food, then at the most, other types should be made available rather than striking the offending food from the menu. While at the least, the onus should be on the students and their parents to prepare a religiously sensitive meal to bring in to school. I would think any non-kosher foods being removed from the menu so as to not somehow offend Jews would be equally as wrong.

For those who wish to have religious schooling, there are specific institutions set aside for that without imposing it on the majority.

I wholly disgree with the practice described in the article for those reasons.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time for my 10:45 goat slaughter and follow up fortune telling in the school gymnasium.

JFO, you seem to have some serious misconceptions. For instance, you wrote;
"The school is required to do this as long as it is not led nor directed by school personnel.

This is incorrect. From the local paper:
"The federal Equal Access Act requires that extracurricular school clubs, religious and non-religious, be treated equally."
[emphasis mine]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070702/news_1n2prayer.html,

"Extracurricular" does not include class periods between 1 and 2, when these breaks take place.

Send the Somalis back to Somalia and the problem is solved.

Mac Lorry:

The problem is that separation of church and state run's counter to Islamic theology.

I hope governments are starting to recognize that a certain population of Muslims are beginning to expect the country of origin to transform to serve them rather than the other way around. Almost reminds me of the views of some illegal immigrants and their supporters.

There seems to be a general perversion of thought where any lack of accomodation is viewed as a great offense and sometimes results in violence.

It seems that mulitculturism has begun to noticibly mutate into the monster that some forsaw it to be.

Formal Islamic theology, unlike Christian theology, does not allow for the separation of state and religion: they are considered to be one and the same. -- former radical Islamist

Everyone would do well to read what this former radical islamist has to say.

Will probably be called a racist or an idiot for pointing this out....

According to Pray-In-Time, after I googled the idea of "what time do you pray in islam?". This is for San Diego...

July 10, 2007

Fajr 1:53
Sunrise 5:43
Dhuhr 12:54
Asr 16:36
Maghrib 20:05
Isha 23:34

So technically, they could do this prayer during a late lunch.

Now, while I don't object to things being taken off the menu (since Fish was the only choice for meat during lent since as far back as I can remember), I do have to wonder if this type of time would be offered to other students of differing faiths. To be honest, I think in some cases it would be. We have a "bible trailer" which comes to my kids' public school every year and teaches during these times. If the kids opt-out of the "bible trailer", they sit and essentially do nothing. Since no one sits out, I always sign the permission slip for my kids to join in.

When they get rid of the Bible Trailer, I'll jump on board for the banning of this prayer time.

Now, while I don't object to things being taken off the menu (since Fish was the only choice for meat during lent since as far back as I can remember), I do have to wonder if this type of time would be offered to other students of differing faiths.

It goes beyond even a faith issue. If a small population of students have a gluten (found in wheat) allergy, it would be unfair to then remove all breads from the school menu.

The correct way to handle this would be, if there is a large enough population of students with the gluten allergy, to add a few gluten-free dishes to the menu...or having the student's parents prepare their lunch.

This menu revising is like three kids not showing up for a test and the whole class getting a zero.

Brian Wohlgemuth,

Way too much information on your blog. The ACLU may be able to find where you live and put a stop to the "bible trailer" event.

From the ACLU's 2002 legal bulletin on the Establishment Clause and public schools:

It is one of the fundamental principles of the Supreme Court's Establishment Clause jurisprudence that the Constitution forbids not only state practices that "aid one religion . . . or prefer one religion over another," but also those practices that "aid all religions" and thus endorse or prefer religion over nonreligion.

. . .

More recently, the Supreme Court has held that a school district may not require that students observe a moment of silence at the beginning of the school day where the purpose of such a requirement is that students use that time for prayer.

The reference is to Wallace v. Jaffree, a SCOTUS ruling that struck down an Alabama law that provided for a moment of silence. The SCOTUS ruled that it failed the Lemon test (Lemon v. Kurzman): the statute was unconstitutional because it was motivated by an advancement of religion.

It appears to me that the actions of the school are clearly unconstitutional.

Brian,

My question is why there is a need for the Bible Trailer? What happened to Sunday School?

Heck, I am more worried about my neighbors (if I caused the Bible trailer to stop) than the ACLU actually stopping the Bible Trailer.

But think about your statement there Mac. If you object to this prayer time, you should also object to the Bible trailer....

The correct way to handle this would be, if there is a large enough population of students with the gluten allergy, to add a few gluten-free dishes to the menu...or having the student's parents prepare their lunch.

Agreed, maybe this is a time where Muslim parents could come in and cook Halal meals for the students which need them. The only problem would be the parents would be held to school's codes for cleanliness and preparation (not implying the parents would be unsanitary, just would need to work around those guidelines).

Shop 201: Beyond the Basics
Beheading the Infidel with a Table Saw.

... in this class, students will be instructed as how to best lay out the neck and upper spine of a despicable kuffar, or any ol' Jew, on to the table saw for quick and only slightly gruesome decapitation.

Pre-requisits:

Videography 2
Penis

Please bring own mop. Maintenance staff not responsible for bloody spills.

Left over heads make great propaganda tools, or ashtrays.

Leather apron suggested, but not required.

!! ACLU Approved !!

Sign up, now. Seats fill quickly.

You always have to fact check IBD to see how much crap they've either invented or gotten from dubious sources. After looking at a few articles a number of things become clearer.

First, dietary accommodations:

Carver has had to adjust to accommodate the cultural, religious and linguistic needs of the charter students. The cafeteria menu, for example, was tweaked to ensure students have daily access to foods that don't contain pork or other ingredients that Muslims don't eat.

Pork has not been "banned," but rather alternatives are available. Of course, few would balk at that, so IBD had to...embellish.

Next, segregated classes.

It seems this is happening, on a voluntary basis, and guess who ushered it in? That's right, the current administration:

The Bush administration is giving public school districts broad new latitude to expand the number of single-sex classes, and even schools, in what is widely considered the most significant policy change toward coeducation since a landmark federal law barring sex discrimination in education more than 30 years ago.

Two years in the making, the rules announced yesterday by the Education Department will allow school districts to create single-sex schools and classes as long as enrollment is voluntary. School districts that go that route must also make coeducational schools and classes of "substantially equal" quality available for members of the excluded sex.

...

Geno Flores, deputy superintendent of the San Diego Unified School District, said he welcomed the new flexibility. Recently, the district created some single-sex classes at Carver Elementary School to accommodate the wishes of a group of Somali Muslim students.

Not exactly "a la the Taliban," but why let facts get in the way?

Next, Arabic instruction. So what? It's not like it's mandatory. Do people have problems with foreign languages being taught in schools?

And finally, the only issue that remains is the prayer time. I agree with Heralder; if you want your children to have a religious education, send them to religious schools. Public schools are secular.

Civics 101: Basics of the Constitution
Focus: Seperation of Church and State

CANCELED due to lack of interest.

My question is why there is a need for the Bible Trailer? What happened to Sunday School?

(preparing to duck)

We don't attend church. Have not done it for a while. Why? Because I find most churches (won't name names) are nothing more than social clubs. That's just my personal view. My kids grow up in a house that there are more paths to (heaven, paradise, the other side, etc....) than just Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.

Am I a "Christian" then? That's between me and God to figure out...

Wow! When can I enlist Yo?

Wait. Just one question: Is the table also approved for tying ACLU lawyers down?

If I had kids in this school, they'd take a ham sandwhich for lunch every day.

Along with pork rinds.

Steak ... it's funny to think that anyone can actually catch an ACLU lawyer.

Slimy bastards keep dripping themselves out of the nets.

Is it time to worry about the "products" of the failed education system that are now the administrators and teachers in our school systems? I think it's time to question the qualifications of, and the loyalty to the country of 90% of the graduates of any major (sic) college in the country. Remember now, these (administrators/teachers) are the people that couldn't possibly make it in the real world of industry/business. Fire a school administrator/teacher and the next time you see him/her will be in the serving line at McDonalds and even then they can't make change for a 10 dollar bill without a computer.

Brian,

I personally agree with you in many aspects. Different congregations will have different social dynamics that vary on sect and size...but an underlying point is a common interest which at times can make it seem like a social club.

mantis,

Thanks alot, now what the hell am I supposed to complain about?

Little Suri Cruise can look forward to 15 minutes for couch jumping and e-meter readings when she gets to elementary school.

Watching Mantis and JFO defend this is hilarious. These same asshats would be ALL OVER a christian groups intrusion in a public school. A great example of the left's ability to ignore the world around them in an effort to feel good. Naive fools.

Yo, I liked the wood shop class idea. Maybe in metal shop they could build IEDs.

"Since Kim accurately potrays the content of the editorial and there is no further link in the editorial, can you provide a link or reference to support your assertions and your slur?"

Kim makes the false claim that the ACLU is doing nothing.

The ACLU's reaction? Yawn:

Repeating a lie is still lying, and now that she knows that the claim that the ACLU isd doing nothing is false, not correcting her post is extension of the lie.