Leave it to the GOP to politicize on the backs of poor children. Bush's threatened veto is an absolutely abomination.

It's also an absolute abomination, which is even worse!

Wait a minute, the GOP came up with SCHIP? Oh, sorry it is Hillary pushing it, yet somehow the GOP is "politicizing on the backs of poor children"!!! Talk about an abomination, why don't you go back to wizblue and delete more comments lee.

When the government can no longer tax us to pay for the drugs to treat hypertension, diabetes, obesity, and atherosclerosis, they will beseech us, nay, force us, to Work For Food.
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Heh, they'll feed you as you leave the gym which will also be the local power generator. WiFi will only work there.
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From the ABC/Kaiser poll Kim references (but doesn't link to or quote -- -odd, no?)

Which political party, Republicans or Democrats, do you trust to do a better job of handling health care?

Democrats - 48%
Republicans - 31%
Don't Know - 16%

If Bush vetoes this effort it will just provide more incentive to put a Democrat in the White House,, but Bush doesn't care about Americans, and he doens't care about the GOP anymore either -- he and KIm and only concerned here with protecting the interests of the tobacco merchants of death.

As is so often the case here- key facts are completely missing from the post. The author can't resist an opportunity to make it appear this is all Hillary's idea when in fact the renewal of the program has bipartisan support (a concept totally foreign to conservatives), including that liberal maniac Oren Hatch.. But the most glaring misstatement is the link to the cigar makers - no biased opinion there of course. The truth is that the proposed tax is .61 on cigarettes and cigars.

Do your own homework whizzers and find the truth. But all you have to do is use your goggle thingie.

So lee gives Kim shit for not linking to a poll she supposedly references, how does he deal with it? Reference the poll he wants and...DON'T link to it. Brilliant. Go back to wizblue where you can continue deleting comments and shutting down opposing thought lee.

Illinois's Governor, Rod "Blago" Blagojevich, did something very similar to what Hillary is proposing. The "All Kids" program means that if you don't want to cover your children through yopur employer's health care plan (the one that insures you and your spouse) then you can opt out of paying and enroll your kids in All Kids instead. This goes for upper middle class professionals as well as the usual working class beneficiaries.

When Blago set about publicizing the proposal, his P.R. firm put Chicago newspapers in touch with families who would directly benefit from the program. The Chicago Sun-Times did a profile, complete with a very large front page photo, of a Single Mom who couldn't afford her daughter's $200/month asthma medication cost under her employer's coverage. She claimed the medications' cost were an "extreme financial hardship" for her, and that she often had to "pick and choose" which prescriptions she would fill for her daughter, and which ones she would have to do without. Heart-rending, right?

Only, here's the rub: in the front page picture, taken of Mother and Daughter whilst they sat at the kitchen table, is a brand new, state-of-the-art camcorder. I was listening to Steve Dahl, a Chicago talk radio host (and the original "shock jock"), and he said that he recognized the camcorder as one he had just purchased for more than $1000, and that perhaps Single Mom was having trouble paying for medicine because she was choosing to spend her money on toys she couldn't afford!

Is the point of such programs to cover people who would rather spend money on consumer goods than accept responsibility for their children's health and the inherent costs therein? And is it abusing the system to cover children whose parents are financially irresponsible? I think not.

I believe the quote is "The power to tax is the power to destroy." I'm not sure about the context of the quote, but the question was brought up and settled in the late 40s to early 50s when butter producers got a punitive tax levied agains margarine. The tax was stringent enough to threaten the viability of margarine as a product. The Supreme Court struck down the tax since it's obvious result was to destroy a specific product.

.61 cents on cigarettes or cigars might not seem like that big of a deal, until you add it to the taxes already in place.

I don't think we need to expand SCHIP in any way shape or form. However, if that is going to happen I can think of a great way to finance it. Two ways actually. 1) A small tax, 1 or 2 percent on all earmarks, deducted from the earmark. That way at least the earmarks will in a small way serve everybody. 2) A small tax, again 1 or 2 percent on all electronic money transfers to outside of the U.S.

.61 cents, should read 61 cents. My bad.

Oh, those poor, poor children living in households making nearly $100K. Woe is them "poor children", right Lee? Lee Ward, singlehandedly dumbing down Wizbang with his subject-change-o-matic by FactsHurtMe Corporation! Get yours today and start looking clueless, too!

btw --- Bush is in favor of expanding SCHIP, but wants to fund it with tax credits instead.

All of which makes Kim's blatant defense of the Tobacco industry all the more transparent.

...and Bush's fellow Republicans told him that his plan for tax credits just won't work.

Republican Sens. Charles E. Grassley (Iowa) and Orrin G. Hatch (Utah), who helped broker the deal in the Senate Finance Committee, issued a joint statement last week calling Bush's tax code proposals "not realistic" and urging the president not to veto the $35 billion package if it reaches his desk.

This expansion of SCHIP is a bipartisan effort - looks like KIm conveniently left that fact out of her article - what a surprise -- this is just another Clinton smear.

Why can't the right wing blogosphere tell the truth for once - this is ridiculous....

Lee Ward, are you really so ignorant of economics not to understand that a $10 premium cigar tax is not going to raise the claimed amounts because of the fact that it will reduce sales?

Of course you are. Democrats always are.

Lee of course forgets also that Hillary's original health care plan during her husband's administration was going to take the Pittman-Robertson excise taxes for funding - funding healthcare "on the backs of" wildlife programs.

lee--"Why can't the right wing blogosphere tell the truth for once - this is ridiculous...."

HAH!!! Why can't you tell the truth lee is the REAL question here, you give Kim shit for not linking to stuff then you cherry pick articles and cut and paste with no link. How about this part that you left out from your last quote lee?!

"Grassley and Hatch, who said they oppose expanding the program as much as Democrats would like, gave examples of proposals they have quashed in committee negotiations. The deal would not allow SCHIP to be expanded to cover more adults, they said, although they did not say what would happen to the more than 600,000 adults already covered by the program. It also would not allow SCHIP to cover legal immigrants, a standard provision in every SCHIP reauthorization bill Democrats have introduced (HR 1535, HR 2147, S 895, S 1224, S 1364).

"Our goal is to refocus the program on low-income children," Hatch and Grassley said. "What the administration needs to understand is that if a bipartisan plan isn't achieved, then the Democratic-controlled Congress will, at the very least, extend the current program with all the terrible policy provisions that have evolved, such as waivers for childless adults and coverage for higher-income kids."

Kims point stands, the dems are trying to use this program to push for further governmental control of health care, and the Reps are resisting that. Talk about not telling the truth lee, sheeesh. Go back to comment deleting its all you're good at.

SCHIP basically says SMFYOYO once you're 18. Meaning meaning it lures folks into expecting support for Medical as kids , then make them earn it later. Or take responsibility from parents for making sure their kids can be taken care of... ...and placing it upon those responsible enough to earn a living and pay taxes.

Hmmm...

Most smokers are poor and most poor people smoke. Good or bad it's their choice.

Leave it to the Democrats to find more ways to raise taxes on the poorest in our society. One of the first things the Democrat governor of my state did upon being elected was raise the cigarette tax $1 per pack. For a needy family with 2 smoking adults that's about an additional $700-1000 dollars per year in taxes. (10% to 25% of their annual income.) Leave it to the Democrats to take food out of the mouths of needy children and food off their backs.

Sure the Democrats claim to care and want to provide free health care, but with regard to health care all the Democrats really care about is making sure the lawyers can continue to get richer and richer by sueing all of us.

When will the poor realize that by voting for Democrats they're just screwing themselves?

Illinois' Governor 'Blowdryovich' is still pushing for his plan which is going to cost 'only' $60 billion initially...which is a low-ball figure since he plans to cover all residents, legal or illegal.

How is he going to pay for it? Well, he came up with a nifty new 'gross receipts tax'. Yep that's right..Now it doesn't matter whether a company makes a profit or not, you pay your 'fair share'. It doesn't matter if you are a business just barely hanging on because of cheaper competition from China or even from Wisconsin...you take in money, you pay the state.

Despite massive opposition, he has decided that he wants it all and he has kept the State Legislature in 'special session' until he gets his way.

When did I say the program didn't already exist lee? Never, not once. I said, ""...the dems are trying to use this program to push for FURTHER governmental control of health care" meaning exactly what it says, they want to take an EXISTING program, and use it to FURTHER government control over healthcare. Reading comprehension FTW lee. See the part where I said, "to push for further governmental control of health care", that means that the program is in existance, and is being used to FURTHER an agenda, good God man. Apparently you didn't read the rest of the article you quote from, you know, the part that said:

"Grassley and Hatch, who said they oppose EXPANDING the program as much as Democrats would like"

Talk about a clown. I'm glad you're finally being honest about what wizblue is all about, "You're just another loud-mouthed uniformed putz, D-hoggs - which is precisely why we banned your sorry ass over at Wizbang Blue.", an echo chamber where dissenting thought is deleted.

As usual, lefties show their remarkable skill at raising taxes to pay for horribly inefficient and ineffective programs, as if continuing to throw money at the black hole will somehow plug it.

And the lefties here show their continuing and unwavering support for anything that gives the government greater control over its populace and anything that might tax anyone except themselves all the more.

You know, I am really developing the mindset that all lefties are closet sado-masochists...

Oh, and about the actual value of the tax, here is the information:

Cigarettes, which accounted for more than 95 percent of tobacco tax collections last year, are the main focus of the bill. Federal taxes on a pack would jump from 39 cents to $1.

But the legislation has dragged cigars along for the ride. The industry operates under a 4.8 cents-per-cigar tax cap.

Under the proposed bill, taxes on "large cigars," a category that includes all but the tiny cigars sold in 20 packs like cigarettes, would rise to 53 percent.

A U.S. Senate version of the bill under consideration today in the Finance Committee sets the maximum tax per cigar at $10.

So we are talking, what, an increase of over 150% for the cigarettes, and a 53% tax on cigars (which, considering some of the more expensive ones, could easily reach or attempt to breach that $10 cap).

Now, I am not a smoker, and I would absolutely love that all forms of tobacco be taxed out the wazoo - so long as the tax was used to pay for the eventual healthcare of the smokers. Seems only fair. However, as usual, the government is stealing from Paul to pay Peter, while no doubt taking a sizeable cut for itself, and any other side-program it can find on the way (anyone seeing shades of our "Social Security" program here?)... and bugger all else.

Defense of the tobacco industry has absolutely nothing to do with most people's qualms about this manner of taxation - nice attempt at a straw man, though. Instead, this is just another idiotic example of how convolutedly stupid our taxation system is. That said, taxation stymies economies - it does not encourage them. And a taxation of this scale is more than likely going to kill the cigar industry cold... and when the government realizes it is no longer making revenue off that tax (no wonder, since no one will pay it), it will just find something else to tax (while leaving the cigar tax, I feel sure).

"First, they came for..."

lee, are you seriously this dense? Did you not read:

"they oppose expanding the program as much as Democrats would like, gave examples of proposals they have quashed in committee negotiations. The deal would not allow SCHIP to be expanded to cover more adults, they said, although they did not say what would happen to the more than 600,000 adults already covered by the program. It also would not allow SCHIP to cover legal immigrants, a standard provision in every SCHIP reauthorization bill Democrats have introduced (HR 1535, HR 2147, S 895, S 1224, S 1364)."

The expansion the democrats want is not simply extending benefit for more children as you so dishonestly purport. Once again:

"SCHIP to cover legal immigrants, a standard provision in every SCHIP reauthorization bill Democrats have introduced (HR 1535, HR 2147, S 895, S 1224, S 1364)."

Why are you so intellectually dishonest? And why are you wizbluers so afraid of dissenting thought on your site?

Wow, Lee. Besides the fact that the poll typically oversampled democrats again, look at questions 12-14. Another case, like the economy, where people think what they have is great but other people are doing horrible because the MSM said they were.

Once again lee, reading comprehension FTW!!

Kim clearly states, "According to a recent ABC/Kaiser Family Foundation/USA Today poll, the American people like the idea of universal coverage in theory." Ummm, so where's the lie? She states exactly what the poll does lee. She continues, "However, when they learn about the realities of universal health care, such as limited choice of doctors, limited access and waiting lists for many procedures, they balk at the idea very quickly just as they did in 1993. And that's no surprise, since most Americans are happy with their insurance plans. Right now, 88 percent of insured Americans are satisfied with their coverage, and 89 percent are satisfied with the quality of care they receive."

Further, correct me if I am wrong, but in a newspaper article, do authors usually "link" a story lee, or do they just reference it exactly as Kim did? "According to a recent ABC/Kaiser Family Foundation/USA Today poll"

Here in Michigan, our ultra-liberal Gov. Granholm raised the tax on smokes 400%. The cost of a carton is about $ 50.00, and about $25.00 in nearby Indiana.

The Gov sued the Post Office, UPS and US based Internet companies to get names of the retired and unemployed wbo bought smokes online - they are now getting bills for thousands.

The Gov brags about revenues up and smoking down.

This may, or may not, be the case.

What we do know is that Hezbollah has been running 18-wheelers up from the Carolinas; the profits to help kill our soldiers.

Upon entry into Indiana from Michigan whole "Smoke Barn" cities have sprung up, stacked floor to ceiling for Michigan buyers.

It would seem that the program is doing wonders for Indiana tax collection, and oh yeah, Hezbollah.

So smoking is not down as far as she thinks, and revenue is not up as much as she planned. Soon we will start jailing people without tax stamps.

good article on Mitt hushing the health care http://www.miamiherald.com/509/story/171103.html plan he signed as gov...

Just as you throw out your quotes with no links lee, riiiiiight. Go back to your comment deleting hypocrite.

Hey wee wee I see someone else (D-Hoggs) knows you also. Can't you get it thru your block head that we are trying to help make the blue tinted page look like it is alive? Just think if you had not ban D'H" you would have been up to 4 on the commenters count! Why is it that Kim kicks your sorry ass on everthing that you oppose her on? (PrepH helps to remove the foot less painful)

Will they never learn?

You put a big tax on cigars and the only one who will be happy is Castro.

jhow66, right on man! I just find it SO humorous how much integrity Wizbang has as opposed to the blue site. Kevin and Jay agonize over even deleting a comment let alone handing out a banning, even amongst the hateful garbage that lee and his ilk have been spewing here for years. And then you have lee and wizblue, deleting comments at the drop of a hat and handing out bannings at will. Truly pathetic!

as for your opinion of what Americans want
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/opinion/polls/main2528357.shtml
(oops forgot CBS/Post biased) so about this other poll of just Republicans....
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/poll-shows-many-republicans-favor-universal-healthcare-gays-in-military-2007-06-28.html

...I could go on forever as there have been a ton of polls in the past year on health care...
gotta go
Off to do my moonbat task of volunteer work at a Baptist food bank

Lee Ward, Americans do not want anything from from you or your criminal communist democrats. All democrat politicians have polls up their ass. Not just for the feel good effect but because they think it gives them permission to lie their stupid asses off. Lee-tard doesn't need an excuse , he's a natural born snake tongue liar.

Slither back to your Traitorous masters whose continued treason is killing our troops. That sound in the distance , are the gallows being built just for you and your shit for brains leaders.

Originally I had no problem with additional tax on cigarettes or cigars, even as a smoker myself. After reading Linoge's post however, I'm reconsidering my position. Hadn't really thought of it in the way he put it.

lee complaining about constant trolling, now THATS classic! Hypocrite of the first order. And a massive pussy on top of it, can't handle any dissent at all, what a little bitch.