I think the league is just worried about the possible (probable) lawsuit from Vick if he is suspended and then not convicted.

I am not in any way condoning dogfighting (and it certainly looks like Vick is guilty), but I do have a problem with someone taking a penalty for a crime before they get their day in court. After that day, if he did half of what he is accused of, I hope the only football team he ever plays for is in the federal Penal league.

I'm glad the Falcons owner has integrity. The NFL has none.

I'm with Brian The Adequate on this one. Remember Latrell Sprewell? I know it was the NBA and not the NFL, but he even admitted his guilt and he still didn't have to serve the entire one year suspension handed down by the NBA.

In addition, the uniform guidelines are spelled out in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, so there is no question those rules can be enforced in those situations. There is a provision concerning code of conduct in the CBA, but the legal process is far from over.

Brian the Adequate:

... but I do have a problem with someone taking a penalty for a crime before they get their day in court.

He has a right not to be convicted without due process, but he does not have a right to a job irrespective of his conduct on and off the field.

I should add that maybe the NFL should come out with a statement saying that if he's found guilty, he'll be suspended. Vick has no marketing value now, so the only thing the NFL can do now is avoid a potential lawsuit.

How long til the PETA moonbats start whining about the 'pigskin'?

Vick and brother should both be convicted of stupidity, but then, Im not sure if there is a jail large enough to hold all of those that are deserving.

I also think if Vick goes to jail, he'll soon understand the flexibility requirements of an NFL center.

A few things cross my mind. One, if a teacher is even alleged to have touched a student inabppropriately they are suspended pending investigation and/or given administrative duties. All of this before due process. If a female co-worker alleges sexual misconduct in the workplace, the alleged perpatrator will be suspended with pay while an investigation is condected. Again, due process by passed. Vicks is a public figure. He is indicted. He should be suspended until the investigation or trial is over. I think the sponsors will also have a say over all the Falcons games if Vicks is playing.
Personally, I am a huge, HUGE dog lover. I think anyone that would take these born gentle animals and turn them into killers for profit is on the same level with a child molester. Someone taking advantage of innocence. He.Is.Scum. ww

WildWillie:

I agree with all your statements in your comment, and I have 2 dogs myself. However, I'm wondering if teachers have a provision in their CBA that allows the suspension to take place without contest?

I think Michael Vick is a monster and I hope he never sets foot on a NFL football field again.

Peta supporter or not, anyone who can justify what Michael Vick has done to these animals is beyond comprehension.

Innocent until proven guilty? I don't need another OJ jury to tell me what to think. I have read the indictment and I am aware that the unemployed cousin that Michael Vick has blamed this dogfighting operation on was without the funds to sponsor such a costly venture. Michael Vick is guilty and I hope he rots in jail.

He will be the poster child for animal abuse for years to come.

One other thing I think is important to note. There may be more details that come out that will add to what Vick will be punished for.

For everyone talking about potential lawsuits and such, I suggest you look at the recent suspension of Pac-man Jones for the 2007 season. Jones has been charged with 2 felonies and received a year-long suspension because of his violation of the "morals" clause in the CBA.

The NFL is showing blatant hypocrisy by not doing the same with one of their marquee stars. Why the NFL wants to protect this loser Vick is beyond me, it's not like they are going to lose any money over it. It seems the opposite would be true, more people would start tuning out if they don't apply the same policy to all players, just look at the NBA.

Isn't football a continuation of dog-fighting by other means?
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And men not sporting? Hall of Rose Humbuggery.

Bah.
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If the sanctioning bodies started banning players just because they were criminals, well.. it would certainly rotate in a large number of people up from the farm leagues.

I think the NFL is waiting to see how the public reacts to determine if Vick's actions are enough of a liability to damage his 'brand'.

So, I guess mark me as disappointed but not surprised.

Here is why I see the NFL holding off from suspending Vick permanently. If he should be cleared of these charges and it is found out that the only thing that Vick was guilty of was gross stupidity in not keeping better track of what goes on there on his property, and that this was someone pointing a finger at Vick to ruin him (not totally outside the realm of possibility), Vick would own the NFL. Not just a team but the whole damn league by the time he got done suing them. At this point, there is only an indictment, and only an investigator's word that Vick is involved.

If Vick is found guilty, make him the puppy chow for those dogs.

J.R.:

That is a great point, but I'm betting the NFL would say that there were many incidents that led up to the decision to suspend him, including the current incidents. Chris Henry of the Bengals was suspended for 8 games this year also, and there were several incidents and arrests that led up to that suspension.

Isn't football a continuation of dog-fighting by other means?

Since when did they start fighting to the death in football? Now, if you want to talk about Ultimate Fighting...

Isn't football a continuation of dog-fighting by other means?

Football is undoubtedly violent, Kim, and there may be some validity in drawing a comparison between indifference to violence on the field breeding indifference to violence of the field. However, NFL players choose to be on the field, knowing full well its risk and reward. No one is indentured and forced to fight to the death. These dogs never had a "choice", and their desire to please their master has been bastardized beyond all comprehension.

Football is ritualized military combat (witness all the terms used -- long bombs, blitzes, ball in the other team's "territory").

I think we'd be better off with conflicts decided by Football than wars, but this is no perfect world. :}

I think we'd be better off with conflicts decided by Football than wars, but this is no perfect world. :}

Amen, brother.

langtrey should watch a pack of dogs fight a bear. Somewhere down South.
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The biggest baddest hongriest bear in the whole wood. The noise could wake a slumbering squirrel.
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What's up Kim? Someone take away your Talbot's credit card? ;-)

Bear Baiting is just as reprehensible, kim, but if I were down there hunting and were jumped by a bear you can damn well bet I'd be all for my dogs tearing the bear a new one.

Meow!
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I'm not talking about Bear Baiting. Don't you guys read? One starts with an 'F' and the other just died. Guess who.
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OK, the points are that dogs fighting to the death in a struggle with a bear has nothing to do with devotion to master, and that squirrels are meaner than the smartest bears.
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I think people are forgetting that the labor agreement between the NFL and the Player's Union explicitly states that the NFL can't do anything unless there is a CONVICTION. It doesn't matter what the charges are, there must be a court conviction of guilty for the NFL to enact punishment. The Player's Union worded the agreement just for a situation like this.

If the NFL fines or punishes Vick now, and he is found not guilty in court, then the NFL/Owners will get it's collective ass sued off with a liable suit from Vick.

Kinda squirrely that provision, huh, JM? Something nutty about 'innocent until proven guilty'? That one is hard to crack.
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Remember that "innocent until proven guilty" is a statement of the burden of proof at a criminal trial.

There is nothing that "requires" me or anyone else to pretend that we think he is innocent in the meantime - so long as we are not placed on the actual jury.

It has nothing to do with anything outside of the criminal proceeding. I do not know the language of the NFL contract, but if participating in the conduct alleged would be a breach of the contract, then Vick could be treated as breaching the contract before the criminal charges are resolved. If Vick sued the NFL / Falcons for breach of contract, then all the NFL / Falcons would have to show is that he breached the contract under the lower civil burden of proof - usually just a preponderance of the evidence.

"The whole presumption of innocence is fine in a court room but in the court of public opinion it does not work too well."

What's the difference between this and Murtha calling our troops murderers? Or the Duke Lacross players having their season canceled? If the last year has taught us anything it should be that we need to have a VERY healthy scepticism of sensational charges.

>I think people are forgetting that the labor agreement between the NFL and the Player's Union explicitly states that the NFL can't do anything unless there is a CONVICTION.

Can you give us a link? Because until you do, I call bull shit.

From the NFLPA Collective Bargaining Agreement:

http://www.nflpa.org/RulesAndRegs/ConductPolicy.aspx#3

Sorry, I meant to highlight this:

Any Covered Person arrested for or charged with conduct prohibited by this policy will be required to undergo an immediate, mandatory clinical evaluation and, if directed, appropriate counseling. Such evaluation and counseling must be performed under the direction and supervision of the NFL Vice President of Player and Employee Development. Failure to cooperate with evaluation and counseling (including being arrested for or charged with additional criminal activity during the evaluation and counseling period) shall itself be conduct detrimental to the National Football League and shall be punishable by fine or suspension at the discretion of the Commissioner.

Now, that's regarding to counseling after said offense; I haven't heard about Vick undergoing "counseling" of any type for animal abuse, and I'm not too sure if this section could even apply to Vick, but it certainly seems like NFL Commish Roger Goddell should be able to take SOME kind of action under the NFLPA CBA.

I'd investigate the NFL's ability to suspend Vick using the CBA, but my Day Job is beckoning. :-(

The teacher analogy is not the best one for Vick's situation, an acused teacher is suspended from the classroom with pay to ensure other kids are protected. The last thing I would want to see would be a guilty Vick drawing a paycheck for nothing. Guilty or innocent as a lamb, Vick will be safer off the field. Especially if any of his lineman are animal lovers who might "miss" a key block or two if he were on the field.

Also I have absolutely no problem with sponsers dropping him at the accusation.

The comparison to Pacman Jones on the other hand is interesting, because if my memory serves he has not been convicted of anything despite like 9 or 10 indictments.

I just don't like the rush to judgement, because I know first hand what a false accusation and it potential to wreak havoc with ones life feel like.

@ Peter F:

You're quoting from the Conduct Policy, which is not part of the CBA, available at http://www.nflpa.org/pdfs/Agents/CBA_Amended_2006.pdf.

Article VIII of the CBA limits club-imposed discipline for off-field conduct to a maximum of 4 weeks suspension without pay, which explains the news item about the Falcons planning to suspend Vick for 4 weeks before Goodell barred him from training camp.

Section 15 of the stock player contract (Appendix C to the CBA) appears to give Goodell the leeway he needs to suspend Vick, and the CBA prevents modifications to this stock contract unless approved by both the NFL Management Council and the NFL Players Association:

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.

The big question here is the use o