In principle labor unions are a good idea. The major problems with unions arise, I believe, with labor laws which encourage union monopolies. There are few reasons why monopolies of labor won't have the same disadvantages as do monopolies of capital. Which is indeed what we've seen. So much so that labor union membership has been dwindling in the developed world.

My father belonged to the CWA and as much as I loved him and thought he deserved the world, even at age 15 I thought it was screwed up that he could sit home on Christmas Day or Thanksgiving and just for offering to be on-call he was paid double-time-and-a-half because the union demanded it of the company he worked for. I don't remember him once actually having to be called in to work on those holidays.

Between Federal regulatory demands on the company that he and others be available in case of an emergency and the union's pay demands I wonder why we get all worked up in a lather over how much we pay for phone service. Especially when we turn around and support the same people over again, politicians and their union enablers (or is it the other way around?).

Politicians and Unions are a match made in hell.

I'm like you, Jay. I think unions do have a role in the world, but their power and influence has far exceeded their primary purpose.

never had much reason to go union,always done for myself what they offered w/o all the bs.

I rarely go ONE day w/o some proof of liberal hypocrisy.

On many occasions, I witness it before the official work day starts. Funny the libtards here seldom address the Dem double standard. Think they'll address dems crying about earmarks, yet forgive rangel for giving money to honor himself?

Ever met a union worker who was the most talented and hardest worker on the project?

Why is it unions think that those with the longest service deserve the highest pay? In that case, maybe John Unitas can come back to the NFL, and get the first 35 mil a yr contract.

JT

Interesting post until you mentioned immigration! I find it amazing that a nation which is but three hundred years old, inhabited by the descendants of Europeans, and Afro-Caribbean slaves is now so anti immigration, sorry, illegal immigration!

Tell me, how do you think the native Indians felt when they saw the whiteman come, evict them from their ancestral lands, slaughter buffalo almost to the point of extinction, then place them in so called reservations? And you begrudge some Mexicans who want to start a new life? America is a nation of immigrants and I'm sure if you were to ask a native Indian, there is a chance they might say, a nation of "Illegal Immigrants"!

Have a nice day!

Joe: Where to start? No one is against immigration. We are against illegal immigration. If you cannot understand that, all hope is lost on you. We are a nation of LEGAL immigrants, including my grandparents. They did not slink in, take what is not rightfully theirs. They waited and came over.

We are also a nation of laws, that is hard for a liberal to understand, but if the federal government makes a law, don't you think it should be enforced? How about if you and I disregard the tax laws. What the hell. We think we should not have to pay, so it must be so.

Bring in the immigrants, legally. We should know who is in this country. ww

We have a weird situation here where I live. It's a "right to work" state (Florida), but there's also a moderate union presence.

(This is for the trade show and corporate meeting market, incidentally.)

In my field, the best techs aren't union. A certain number of companies have to use union labor because of contracts they signed in their home states, but most use people like me - and they pay us higher wages, usually $5 to $10 more per hour.

The scheduling is different, too. For a big show, they usually come in a whole day earlier to get things done if it's a union crew, because they're that much slower, so they end up paying about the same amount in labor, but have a lot less expenses for room rental and for their own staff.

The really interesting thing is what happens when a company starts getting abusive with their crews - the better techs stop working for them, and go with other contracts. After a few months, shows start going bad, and the companies in question either straighten up, or they go out of business... no collective bargaining, no heavy organization, just people with common sense not working for assholes.

Wild Willie

I am not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. I find it ironic, perhaps that word is lost on you, that JT will pen some literary masterpiece entitled "Hypocrisy" or thereabouts, yet fail to see the hypocrisyof their views on immigration.

The U.S is one of the newest countries in the world, yet it has established itself as one of the most powerful and wealthy. It's founding fathers were immigrants. "Go west" has been said for years and America will remain a target for those seeking to improve their lot in life as it's founding fathers did. America is more than big enough; it has more than enough work to look after another 10, 20 30 even 100 million more people!

Joe, nobody here has a problem with people wanting to come over and improve their lot in life. We just object to those whose first action here is breaking the law.

Do it right, or GTFO.

So, Joe, it was a good thing we filled up America with workers. What about those 'Native Americans'? Didn't they think everyone was fully occupied?
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Joe, you are insane. ww

BChoinski

If GTFO stands for what I think it does, then you are nothing but an ignorant sod. Perhaps you should change your name to Chomp(ski)!

Kim

Your comment is too cryptic. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Perhaps you are interested in a discussion of the ideal use of land?
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So, no rational answer so all you have left is insults. Nice.

Yes, GTFO does stand for what you think, but not directed at you -- it's at those who feel that they should get whatever they want and to hell with the laws that everyone else has to abide by.

If you can't tell the difference, then as WW states, you are thinking impaired.

joe, I'm trying to get you to see the dissonance you have over land use.
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Orwell would have loved the unions' use of the term "fair."

"Fair Trade", "Fair wage", fair this, fair that.

"Fair trade" is, of course, anything but. It is code for the protectionist import duties necessary to support a union industry because it is otherwise uncompetitive.

"Fair wage" is not what the market would determine for a given job, it is the max that the Union can extort by any means.

Fairly corrupt, I would add, and fairly in bed with the Democratic Party and the mafia.

And it is a measure of this that earlier this year the Democrats tried to pass a change to union rules that would allow voting by "open" ballot (rather than secret), thus introducing another chance for the thugs to intimidate members.

And it is Orwellian too that a party with "democrat" in its name would sell its principles so cheap and pander to the money so obviously.

I have the same feeling about labor unions, a good idea that has outlived its usefulness and/or has been corrupted by human nature. Much like Communism, if you stop and think about it.

I am amused that one line of lefty thought is that WalMart is forcing Mom & Pop stores to close because they stifle competition. This is done because WalMart buys Chinese goods much more cheaply than they can American good. The reason for this...? Seems to me that if American companies only had to pay people (salary and benefits) based on the market rather than on what the unions negotiate, WalMart would be able to afford more American goods.

Oh, and Joe. Taking you argument to the nth degree would have everyone still living in Africa, because any form of migration could possibly lead to conflict with native peoples.

NFL denied one state the opportunity to host the Super Bowl (I think it was Arizona or New Mexico)

Answer: Arizona.

Yeah, all those big square states out West look alike don't they Jay? Come on, when has New Mexico ever had a pro football team? What facility in New Mexico capable of hosting a Super Bowl. East Coast bias!

Oclarki, I resent your accusations of an "East Coast bias."

I don't give a rat's ass about ANY pro sports. I barely know what states on the east coast (let alone New England) have teams.

In other words, I don't discriminate on sports based on geography. I am apathetic about all equally.

J.

Yeah, all those big square states out West look alike don't they...

Holy crap, when did we make states out west?

Jay,

I've heard there are people who don't care about sports, but we call them women where I'm from.

Heralder hadn't noticed that the world had moved on beyond the signing of the Declaration. Heralder is so old, when he went to school, they didn't have history.

:)

O snap, Oyster is startin in on me!

You'll have to forgive me, I went to college for art (98'). Isn't Rembrandt one of the fifty states?

Labor Unions are full of coruption they force members to pay dues and vote for the demacratic canadate each election and they have resorted to violence and intimadation i mean the TEAMSTERS is just one of them and the AFL/CIO is another and the NEA is even worse

Check out the Longshoreman's union. I knew somebody who worked out of one of their union halls for some odd reason, and they run it the old school way. The local union boss holds the monthly "meeting" with two big thugs behind him, directing "this fellow here has determined where our political money will go, this fellow did this, and that", "any objections?"

He was explaining that they were ready to quite literally break people's arms if they actually objected.

"Bring in the immigrants, legally. We should know who is in this country. ww"

Exactly!

And the legal immigrants couldn't agree more!