Ain't truth grand? :)

The thing that's wrong with the American medical system is that it covers too many people, not too little. Yeah, I said too many. Let me repeat again. It covers too many people. Government should get out of healthcare and giving incentives to be "disabled" by giving 20 year-olds too lazy to get a job Medicare coverage.

I guess when your party flatlines, your president flatlines,your conservative movement dies and you are staring into the abyss questioning whether Ann Coulter really is a tranny, you can still pull a post like this out of your ass.

Excuse me but I have to go watch some paint dry.

Every time someone talks about universal health care/coverage we hear about the long wait times in Canada. Who said we had to have Canada's system? Are you telling me we can not do better?

Other countries do a far better job than Canada, and better than ours and for a lot less:
U.S. insurance administrative costs are more than three times the rates found in countries with the most integrated insurance systems (France, Finland, and Japan), and 20 to 30 percent higher than those in Germany and Switzerland, two countries where private insurance plays a substantial role. If U.S. administrative costs were on a par with the best countries, we would save $85 billion a year.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/site_docs/annualreports/2006/msg_pres07.htm

If you want to see how well our health system rates (not very well) you can see for yourself here:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=401577

I "like" this part:

Moore further claimed that the infamously long waiting lists in Canada are merely a reflection of the fact that Canadians have a longer life expectancy than Americans, and that the sterling system is swamped by too many Canadians who live too long.

Isn't that what EVERYONE is predicting for America's future?

That the "graying of America" will lead to a catastrophe of major proportions in Social Security and other services.

All WITHOUT the disastrous socialized medical system Moore and his ilk (hi Shillery!) are pimping.

Paul,

Judging from dr lava's post (containing only personal attacks and no rebuttal), you really hit a nerve.

Nice.

Thank god someone is here to defend the poor, poor insurance companies and their lobbyists.

Bless you, Paul.

Yeah, in liberal land, Ann Coulter has an Adam's Apple so the Canadian heath care system must be better than ours....

Spoken like someone all out of facts jp2.

jp2

Thank god someone is here to defend the poor, poor insurance companies and their lobbyists.

Can you point out where that happened here? Thanks.

"Spoken like someone all out of facts jp2."

Yes, facts Paul. You cite an op-ed piece by a conservative who runs a conservative "free-market" think tank that is sponsored by - guess who! - Phizer, Lily and PhRma!

GREAT work.

Just change the title to:
"Another Conservative Sponsored by Pharmacuteical Companies Speaks Against Health Care System, Moore."

Far more accurate.

jp2,

so you don't like info from Pfizer . . .

so you get your "facts" from M. Moore??????????

I'd guess you get fitness advice from Stabenow.

jp2, you cutting and pasting comments gain?

Why don't you speak to the substance of the post...

Oh, you'd rather not.

By the way, this is for the libs to think about. If Coulter is a tranny, as you say, why would she hide it? Declaring from the get-go would give her even more credibility and value. Like a black conservative is valuable for conservatives (i.e. Lynn Swann, JC Watts).

It's the liberal logic like saying President Bush is dumb, but then that he was the mastermind behind something like 9/11. Or that Reagan was the greatest President or . . ., never mind that -- even honest liberals don't dispute that.

You cite an op-ed piece by a conservative who runs a conservative "free-market" think tank that is sponsored by - guess who! - Phizer, Lily and PhRma!

Good one jp2. You hit 'em hard with that argumentum ad hominem. Now, throw in a straw man and a red herring or two and you'll convince me and every other American of the validity of government-run health care.

I'm still looking for the substance Paul. It's a common problem here.

If you think that someone funded by pharmaceutical companies defending pharmaceutical company profits is "substance" then I guess that's where we just disagree. Sure fits the bill here though.

Do you honestly think her opinion is at all important? She's paid to think this way. It's actually pretty creepy that she brings her dead mother into it.

"U.S. insurance administrative costs are more than three times the rates found in countries with the most integrated insurance systems"

You've got a point there! We'd be a lot better off if we just turn the administration of such things to a recognized leader in the arenas of cost control, organizational efficiency, and keeping administration costs to a minimum: The US Government. Sign me up!

>If you think that someone funded by pharmaceutical companies defending pharmaceutical company profits is "substance" then I guess that's where we just disagree. Sure fits the bill here though.

GREAT so I have you on record that all the environmental "studies" from environmental groups are worthless too. Right? Right?

>It's actually pretty creepy that she brings her dead mother into it.

But Cindy Sheehan is a paragon of virtue right?

"If you think that someone funded by pharmaceutical companies defending pharmaceutical company profits is "substance" then I guess that's where we just disagree. Sure fits the bill here though."

It's the same old whine that's used against oil companies. If Pharma companies, like Oil, would one day declare that they were now "not for profit" companies and set their pricing so profits would zero out, you'd only see a 10%-20% (even if you drop the oft maligned marketing programs) drop in the costs of their products. OK, so that drug that costs $300 a month now might then cost $255. That's not the revolutionary change most people envision when they rail against Big Pharma.

It's actually pretty creepy that she brings her dead mother into it.

I've only heard good things about the Canadian health care system from two kinds of people: healthy people and Americans.

I work with an ex-Canadian who tells me "The health care system there is great. If you have a cold all you have to do is walk in, show your card, and they treat you!" Of course, she was 25 when she left, and had never had anything more serious than the flu.

On the other side a Canadian friend blew out his knee skiing, and got put on a ten-year waiting list for reconstruction. Ten years? He had it done in buffalo in less than six weeks.

The only reason there isn't a revolt over healthcare in Canada is they can come to the US to get knee reconstructions. And MRIs, CT scans, new drugs, etc, etc. A brain tumor can go from treatable to nonoperable in less time than you wait for a specialist in Canada. This stuff matters.

The one thing they do in Canada and all systems.

Shutdown the trial lawyers!

The Canadian system wouldn't have limp along like it did for as long as it did if they hadn't.

The most egregious case of malpractice I can remember had a rare award of $100,000. There may have been bigger awards but I'm having trouble remembering them.

I expect the Trial Lawyers are all frothing at the mouth thinking that they will be able to tap the pockets of the US taxpayer. Think again. Despite how much they believe they own the Democrats, national healthcare will so corrode in cost and quality so quickly lawsuit will not be tolerated.

If our healthcare system is great than why do we live shorter lives and have a higher infant morality rate than counties like France, Germany, Sweden, England, Finland......

Why do we put up with such crappy care and still pay two to three times as much.

PS, I would really like the right to lifers to address the infant mortality rate issue.

Infant mortality rate by country (source WIKI)
180 United States   6.37
181 Korea, South   6.05
182 Cuba   6.04
183 Faroe Islands   6.01
184 Isle of Man   5.72
185 Italy   5.72
186 New Zealand   5.67
187 Taiwan   5.54
188 San Marino   5.53
189 Greece   5.34
190 Monaco   5.27
191 Ireland   5.22
192 Jersey   5.08
193 United Kingdom   5.01
194 Gibraltar   4.98
195 Portugal   4.92
196 Netherlands   4.88
197 European Union   4.80
198 Luxembourg   4.68
199 Canada   4.63
200 Guernsey   4.59
201 Liechtenstein   4.58
202 Australia   4.57
203 Belgium   4.56
204 Austria   4.54
205 Denmark   4.45
206 Slovenia   4.35
207 Macau   4.33
208 Spain   4.31
209 Switzerland   4.28
210 Germany   4.08
211 Andorra   4.03
212 Czech Republic   3.86
213 Malta   3.82
214 Norway   3.64
215 Finland   3.52
216 France   3.41
217 Iceland   3.27
218 Hong Kong   2.94
219 Japan   2.80
220 Sweden   2.76
221 Singapore   2.30

Barney spews "f our healthcare system is great than why do we live shorter lives and have a higher infant morality rate than counties like France, Germany, Sweden, England, Finland......"

Life span is not solely a function of health care, Barney. Learn to understand the statistics you use, for once.

Secondly, infant mortality is higher in our country because of larger minority populations. Comparing the white caucasian infant mortality rate to the those countries would reveal we do better, not worse.

Secondly, infant mortality is higher in our country because of larger minority populations. SPQR

Are saying that if we gave equal access to healthcare to both whites and blacks that blacks would still have a higher infant mortality rate?

"There is now a "consensus" that the health care system is Canada has failed."

I didn't even read that line! Brilliant Paul. A consensus among Pharma-funded conservatives that the Canadian system has failed. Even your joke is a joke.

Are saying that if we gave equal access to healthcare to both whites and blacks that blacks would still have a higher infant mortality rate?

Are you saying a pregnant woman can't walk into any hospital in country and be unable to receive care ? Are you saying that you're so ignorant you've never heard of WIC ?

BarneyGump:
Are saying that if we gave equal access to healthcare to both whites and blacks that blacks would still have a higher infant mortality rate?

Please cite a case where someone was refused to be sold health care because of their race.

Wow! Cuba is way up there too, you know, with the US, so they have crack babies in Cuba? Didn't Mr. Moore say they had much better health care in Cuba? So it's maybe only a little better, or possibly infant mortality rates are related more closely to several other factors which means these statistics mean next to nothing as far as health care systems are concerned.

Barney a bogus claim from a wacky left wing site isn't exactly evidence.

==========

NOW JP2... Do I have you on record that all the environmental "studies" from environmental groups are worthless too?

Well? Answer the freaking question!

Maybe there should be a rule that "progressives" have to take Macroeconomics 101. If one lowers the perceived price of an item below the price as set by the market then a shortage will occur. Plan and simple, instituting universal health care without increasing the doctors per capita will cause you/me to have to wait for service. It doesn't matter if it is in Finland or Tahiti.

Paul - cite me a study.

barneyGRUBBLE:

If our healthcare system is great than why do we live shorter lives and have a higher infant morality rate than counties like France, Germany, Sweden, England, Finland......

em... er... personnel choice.

You could ask Ronald McDonald, The KFC guy, Dave Thomas (if he were alive, too many triples w/cheese I suspect) or ask anyone "running for the border" and gorging themselves on barrito supremes with sour cream.

Key point of the article:

There's a good reason why my former countrymen with the money to do so either use the services of a booming industry of illegal private clinics, or come to America to take advantage of the health care that Moore denounces.

We have the best care in the US - if you're wealthy enough to afford it. That's why the wealthy from other nations come here.

But if you're working hard in the US, making a middle class income and raising a family, you just better hope nothing serious every happens to you.

That's why nearly all other 1st world nations have an average of longer lives and lower infant mortality rates - those of in the US without exceptional incomes get the shaft. It almost certainly has something to do with things as direct as, why people in other 1st world nations appear to be growing taller than us. Better treatment for the young affects them their whole lives - it affects our nation as a whole, as well.

I think we can do better, and I personally think providing health care directly instead of through private health insurance companies would be a great start that might solve everything.

As for other nations' lifestyles, the French in particular are boozing cigarette smokers who eat a lot of raw red meat.

Also, I don't know if our ridiculously high infant mortality rates can be laid at the feet of McDonald's and KFC.

Sure, we can eat better - but it seems rather likely to me that a health care system which is leaving a large chunk of our population SOL might be playing a factor too.