We will now wait for the usual liberals here as they begin to have collective apoplexy.

Limbaugh has an official "memory department", or something like that. Too bad the voters aren't equipped with such a thing, as the forthcoming hoodwinking that approacheth will no doubt be very effective. Just harken back to jack-off mythas' recent re-election, no one in the district even knew what a traitor he is, and probably still don't.

Thank goodness for hell, it does beckon so. It'd just be nice to see a little of it, if not at least justice, right here on earth, for the bastards before they go to their doom.

I would hope for an electorat smart enough to vote these phonies out of office...but since I live in California I realize such an electorat does NOT exist!

Justrand,
You poor slob. Oh wait, I live in NorCal! (if this was audio, now is when you'd hear the Sam Kinison scream) argh

If the rate of progress stays as is, come November 2008, the Dems will claim that if it wasn't for them, Saddam would still be in power and it was all the GOP's fault that the US didn't invade sooner.

hermie,
Mrs. C has already taken so many positions on the issue, that she will be able to make said claims and actually be (technically) "honest". Why doesn't old video tape work for our side, but when a republican said something iffy 27 years ago in a fishing sciff, with a belly full of beer, on his prom night, it gets broadcast 24/7 until my brain bleeds ?

I know, there's no whining in politics, but just the same...

The last time we were doing alright, they focused on an Abu Garib. They blew it out of proportion in terms of coverage and beat that horse to death, resurrected it, and beat it to death again.

I'm sure they'll make find another atrocity to focus on to detract from the success and put proponents of the war on the defensive.

I don't doubt Beauchamp was a primer for the forthcoming onslaught.

And to think, Lincoln imprisoned/deported thousands of enemies of the state and the Bush admin. caves to the "ideal" of giving mass murderers of women and children a free pass on torture, as well as give them constitutional rights. And now they want to close Gitmo too.

Well, at least poor, idealic johnny jihad didn't have to suffer the cruelties lying within that hell-hole. And now there's a big drive to have him released. An American takes up arms against his own, and he's not summarily shot !?! Yep, We're boned.

"They're not supporting the troops. They are supporting their own reelection."

A sad truth that keeps rearing its ugly head. Even as a conservative/centrist, I find it so disheartening. A part of me wants to believe there's no ulterior motive behind what should be a genuine pride in what our military is doing. But at this stage of the game, it's obvious the voter's opinion is of utmost importance.

How do you get coffee off of an LED screen? I sprewed it all over when I read the traitor Turbin Durbin's statement. Guess it's time to go on the congressional site and send him another Email to remind him that elephants never forget an enemy of the country and he is one big fat one.

Pudge,

"(if this was audio, now is when you'd hear the Sam Kinison scream)"

If this was audio, ya might hear "Ayyyy CHIHUAHUA! a helicopter maybe even a gunshot or two in the distance.

"An American takes up arms against his own, and he's not summarily shot !?! Yep, We're boned."

I don't expect the cowardly democrats to pick up arms to takeover our Country when their words are enough and are killing our soldiers. Their actions and WORDS are UNFORGIVABLE.

And in Kerry's case we know where the grain of rice is located.
======================================

Bwhahahahahahahahahah...

I love stories like this. Keep 'em coming.

:)

"If the rate of progress stays as is, come November 2008, the Dems will claim ..."

The soldiers they supported all along succeeded despite the best efforts of George Bush to get them all killed. Electing the dems to a majority in congress in '06 was what finally made it possible for our efforts in Iraq to succeed. George broke it, but it took the Dems to fix it.

The list will be as endless as it will be shameless.

Rickbert, the Democrats flee hearings when Genrals (Keane) talk about success. Sadly democrats need failure to feel good about themselves.

Exactly what role do the democrats have in the current war?

Rickbert proves -again- that many Dems are just freaking insane.

Rickbert is the result of special education from the Public Schools. The short bus, don't you know. If he thinks a democrat knows how to form a strategy and/or plan, is just nuts. ww

I don't know Rickbert, but I think you guys might have missed a pretty good example of sarcasm.

I've noticed a lot of predictions of a highly positive report from Petraeus. The MSM and Dems seem to be pushing this lately.

I guess we'll be seeing more of this leading up to September. Then, when the actual report comes out and it's only 'moderately positive' or 'not 100% positive' the MSM and Dems will say "Aha! Things are worse than we thought! It's a quagmire!"

85. Posted by Les Nessman | August 1, 2007 9:06 AM |

The best part is, I'm in Chicago - I can vote against Durbin three or four times.

Les, I hope you're wrong. That the Dems would purposefully play it up only to shoot it down when September rolls around, saying it's not as good as they were led to believe. They won't put the emphasis on the fact that there were successes or that those successes were beyond anything thus far and the resulting climate could create an atmosphere for those successes to grow exponentially, but will claim they didn't meet a (not yet clearly specified by the Dems) standard. They've set goalposts for the Iraqi government to meet and measure their progress painstakingly, but they've not so clearly defined military benchmarks.

In many ways I'm glad the Dems have been critical in that it forces the military to meet or push harder for certain success. But I do think too many have gone way overboard and beyond reason in their criticisms with unbending characters like Reid, Pelosi, Kerry, Murtha, et al who simply won't accept anything less than a pullout NOW - even in light of positive results.

"but it took the Dems to fix it"

Yup,

1. By immediately passing a non-binding resolution declaring the current strategy a failure before it even started.

2. By having one of their leaders publicly declare publicly: "the war is lost".

3. By continuing to only report the terrorist's success and ignoring the US's successes on the network news and in the papers and leftist blogs.

4. By walking out of meetting because hearing about all the success of the American troops is just too hard to bear.

5. By aiding and encouraging the enemy by attaching a terrorist victory date to the military spending bills.

6 etc.

Yup, the Democrat are trying hard to fix things (so their terrorist allies can defeat the US).

What color is the sky in you world Rickbert?

"The soldiers they supported all along succeeded despite the best efforts of George Bush to get them all killed."

You know, there is some truth in this statement. George Bush was try to kill the solders the Dems supported all along (the terrorists).

The part about the terrorists succeeding is false though...

I don't know Rickbert, but I think you guys might have missed a pretty good example of sarcasm.

18. Posted by Oyster

Echo's to Oyster-----I think you may have missed the /sarc off that was missed by Rickbert. Of course this would have been the "gospel truth" if ol' Barn-barn had written this.......

I'm not familiar with Rickbert either, but if that was sarcasm he is a master of it. That post sounded exactly like typical leftist denial-spin.

We all know that crawdads have brains the size of a grain of rice and liberals and animal rights wackos have the same sized brains

Wow, you guys are so worked up you attack without pause, and end up directing your fire at those who agree with you.

Rickbert is obviously stating what he thinks "Dems will say," and his addendum to this (unrealistic) estimation is "The list will be as endless as it will be shameless." He is not endorsing the hypothetical.

No really, look at his blog. He's got videos from Mary Katherine Ham and Blackfive, and apparently he's part of the weird anti-youtube brigade of rightwingers. He's one of you. Calm yourselves.

Oh, and Paul,

Surprise, surprise, don't you know that all but one of them is up for reelection this cycle.

I don't know about the others' constituencies, but if Durbin is cheerleading the war, that doesn't actually help him in '08 (not that he needs any help; he's a shoo-in). Illinois wants out, you know.

What's also interesting here is that the Dhimmicrats are thumbing their noses at the rabid anti-war base... the ones that have been sending in the donations. (MoveOn, George Soros, Kos, etc.)

I expect that the money will start to dry up soon, and then the Dhimmicrats will start singing another tune.

The Party of the Donkey has done an absolutely masterful job of painting itself into a corner where they can't be too pro-war for fear of pissing off the money donors, but can't be too anti-war for fear of pissing off the voters--especially when things are starting to succeed, like with Petraeus' strategy (of which "the Surge" is only the first part).

It's kinda fun watching them try to please both sides.

"Illinois wants out, you know."

Again this strawman?

Pretty much everyone wants out. The question is does Illinois want the terrorists to win? If they do, Durbin is a shoe-in. If Illinois want the terrorists to be defeated, well that's another story.

Hell, even Texas wants out. But only after all the Al Qaeda, Baathists, Islamo-fascists and jihadists are goat food.

Pretty much everyone wants out.

I lot of people don't want us out of Iraq anytime soon.

The question is does Illinois want the terrorists to win?

Of course we do. We're all terrorist-lovers here.

Hell, even Texas wants out. But only after all the Al Qaeda, Baathists, Islamo-fascists and jihadists are goat food.

Translation: Never.

like with Petraeus' strategy (of which "the Surge" is only the first part).

I like the first part, it's the second part I wonder about:

"[The Iraqi benchmarks are to] achieve reconciliation, to share oil revenues among all of Iraq's citizens, to put the wealth of Iraq into the rebuilding of Iraq, to allow more Iraqis to re-enter their nation's civic life, to hold local elections, and to take responsibility for security in every Iraqi province."

and also,

"confront violent radicals of any faction or political party -- and they need to follow through,"

That is what the surge is supposed to enable. Is it working? Anyone care to comment on the political situation in Iraq and their commitment to these goals (distributed oil revenue, curbing Shiite militias, eased restrictions on Baathists, Iraqi control of all 18 provinces by November)?

Ahhhhh! The genius right has done it again.

Here we have some small, temporary improvements militarily and the warmongers are declaring victory in this whole fiasco. We have exalted these kinds of victories before, ask Petraeus, only to see the bottom fall out and the situation revert to mayhem once again.

Get real guys. Let us hope the "surge" improvements have at least some lasting effect. Given the history of this fiasco the odds don't favor it. As the military enjoys what may be only temporary successes the government is disintegrating and ultimate SUCCESS depends on a functioning government.

If Las Vegas was callous enough to run book on the war, how many of you are willing to bet the farm on victory?

As to the Dems or Reps or any politician beginning to acknowledge some success; "I'm shocked that there is gambling going on in here".

"If Las Vegas was callous enough to run book on the war, how many of you are willing to bet the farm on victory?"

It depends. If a Dem (Hillary of course) takes the Whitehouse next year, then I would bet on a terrorist victory. Otherwise, I would bet on the US.

In re: Sen. Durbin. He did not, of course, compare our troops to Nazis and the Khmer Rouge. He described certain interrogation techniques used at Guantanamo and said they reminded him of techniques used by those insidious, evil regimes.

As it turns out, he was correct. Our government -- your government -- has intentionally adopted interrogation techniques used by Stalinist Russia, Nazi Germany, the Khmer Rouge, and others... including the same techniques (sleep deprivation, waterboarding) that we have called torture when used by other regimes, including the North Vietnamese, when they used them against our own troops. It is detailed here:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/08/13/070813fa_fact_mayer

I would invite you all to read that article and respond to the facts reported therein rather than simply attacking me or Senator Durbin. You may argue that our governments actions are justified, that torturing someone is different when we do it, etc. but I don't think you can argue that it hasn't happened.

Thanks.

Yagur:

Good thinking. Excellent post. I didn't address the issue in my post simply because I felt the reference was so fatuous that to respond would be akin to whistling in the wind.

mantis:

I like the first part, it's the second part I wonder about:

I have the key. What will bring it all together is marshmellows. If we can get the Iraqis 280 tons of marshmellows, everything will fall into place.

As far as Rickbert's post goes, Mantis, don't act like you're above his brand of sarcasm by simply engaging in your own. Frankly, his sarcasm in that post wasn't all that obvious. I had to read it a couple times myself and still wasn't completely sure.

Often times you make good sense and other times you're just quick to poke someone with a stick because it's apparently great fun. That's fine. We're all guilty of it, but remember that next time you complain about others lumping people together when you use comments like "he's one of yours" based on his opinion of YouTube content.

Heralder,

I know just the guy for that job.

Hey, didn't Harry Reid already tell us the war is lost? What's going on with these guys? How can a dumb sheep Democrap follow this "leadership" if it doesn't know what military victory is?

Interesting WSJ article about how the Dims in the 70's followed Soviet propoganda, including Kerry's "Jenghis Kahn" remarks.

They don't believe in American ideals or power.

mantis,

I'm afraid that he is no longer available for hire.

As far as Rickbert's post goes, Mantis, don't act like you're above his brand of sarcasm by simply engaging in your own.

Hey, I never said I was above sarcasm, and I'm not criticizing Rickbert's.

Frankly, his sarcasm in that post wasn't all that obvious. I had to read it a couple times myself and still wasn't completely sure.

Ok, YMMV, but the closing sentence clued me in on the first read. Who else could be shameless in his hypothetical other than the Democrats?

Often times you make good sense and other times you're just quick to poke someone with a stick because it's apparently great fun.

Passes the time, anyway. ;)

but remember that next time you complain about others lumping people together when you use comments like "he's one of yours" based on his opinion of YouTube content.

Maybe "one of yours" was a poorly chosen turn of phrase, but it seems that the people jumping all over him would tend to agree with him. And his writings on his own blog bear that out. And yes the "YouTube has a bias against conservative blogs" meme is contained therein, but look at the rest as well. He's obviously on the right. I'm not saying everyone else on the right would agree with him, or each other for that matter, except maybe on the perfidy of the Democrats.

A letter to Harry Reid from the WAR ZONE:

"To be brief , your words are killing us"

What was this maggots response?

Democrats "SAY ANYTHING" and "DO WHATEVER IT TAKES" policy in their disgraceful pursuit of self promotion as they feind for power. What does this translate to into for all you mindless sheep?

What gives , was I absent on brain washing day? Did they forget to give me the "red flashy light thingy"? (Men in Black). How can you think of yourselves as "TRUE AMERICANS" when your Leader Harry Reids own words you repeat with glee are KILLING OUR TROOPS?
Do explain.

Crafish may be quick to retreat like democrats are to lie their way out of a situation. I would not credit this as having something to do with inteligence it's more of a survival instinct. After all it's easy to catch a crawfish , I caught them by the dozen with a piece of baloney and a string. Democrats are also as easy to catch by the dozen all it takes is some effort and a competant and honest Media.

We all know that over 80% of the Media is nothing more than an extended wing of the democrat party who wouldn't have survived to this date without them.

Did someone on this thread just ask us to go to a link from The NEW YORKER???

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah....

You libs are hilarious.

RobLACal:

It always amazes me that you right wingers, while wearing the flag and espousing patriotism, fail to understand the greatness of this nation. As citizens it is not only our right but our duty to speak up both to defend and perhaps defile the actions taken by any segment/institution of our country. You and many others do that on these blog sites, in letters to the editor, phone calls to Rush and whatever.

We, who disagree with your viewpoints, are merely doing the same thing and this right is exactly what our troops fight to defend. Above all else, our liberty and our right to free speech are the pillars that have enabled this nation to soar.

To mute the arguments and disagreements with this or any other war does nothing to salute our troops, to the contrary it salutes them even more because it reminds them of what a great nation we are and how much all of us appreciate their dedication and sacrifice to help continue this nation as a beacon to the world.

When, we as a nation make a mistake, especially as gargantuan as Iraq or as inane as electing Dubya, it behooves all of us to raise our voices and create a debate about what we are doing, how we are doing it and how we should resolve it. For issues as serious as the war it should not be left to any one man and his minions, with silence from the masses, to be the sole decider on the future of America.

Politics ain't always pretty but it has bode us well as the ultimate purveyor of the will of the people. It has not achieved this by practicing the doctrine of the three monkeys regarding evil.

Lighten up with the invective. Think a little. You have a right to be heard but you can either pander to your fellow constituents and awe them with your mastery of emotional language or you can write insightful, intelligent and logical dailogue that may help all of us come to a reasonable soution.

Descartes once said. "I think, therefore I am". Perhaps if you don't think, then you aren't.

I don't have any doubt that 80% (or more) of the media are liberal/Dems, nor a doubt as to the cynical reasons for the change in position of many Dem Senators on the Surge.

Only a child, or an extremely naive person, would find otherwise. That's not invective, just common sense.

Art A Layman,

Let's see, you said, "we as a nation make a mistake, especially as gargantuan as Iraq or as inane as electing Dubya", and later you say, "Lighten up with the invective. Think a little. You have a right to be heard but you can either pander to your fellow constituents and awe them with your mastery of emotional language or you can write insightful, intelligent and logical dailogue that may help all of us come to a reasonable soution." Huh ?

Also, just so's ya know, the first doesn't guarantee anyones right to assist the enemy in his effort to destroy us, and in that issue there also is the fact that the commander in chief has the right to envoke executive authority. You know, like when Lincoln suspended habeus corpus, or when FDR executed the nazi spies and provided lodging for patriots of Japanese origin, or when Clinton pissed all over the rights of Aldrich Ames ?

You understand right ? You lunkheaded f*ck*ng moron! Oops, my "P-180 plutonium-invectivenator" slipped into gear again, sorry.

Have you ever had crawdad chowder i understand its realy good

You know, like when Lincoln suspended habeus corpus,

Which the Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional, correctly. Let's also not forget that when Lincoln did that the country was literally being torn apart, not that that makes it correct.

or when FDR executed the nazi spies

Not summarily; they were tried.

or when Clinton pissed all over the rights of Aldrich Ames ?

I see, when Clinton does it legally (FISA was amended later to restrict physical searches; they had FISA warrants for the other searches), it's pissing on rights, but when Bush does it illegally, it's a-ok. Gotcha.

ppo

"RobLACal:

It always amazes me that you right wingers,"

Dammit Art , first of all I don't appreciate you taking my words and implying that they are views of any group . They are mine stupid.

By the way I am registered democratic and I will inform you soon enough as to my new registered status.

"When, we as a nation make a mistake, especially as gargantuan as Iraq or as inane as electing Dubya,"

Who the hell are you to speak for a nation? What was a gargantuan mistake and failure was BJ Clinton not doing his duty as President and letting Bin Laden go free.

"For issues as serious as the war it should not be left to any one man and his minions, with silence from the masses, to be the sole decider on the future of America."

I am sick of your fricken lies and stupidity. President Bush was elected twice moron and the majority of Congress voted to go to war(that includes a great many of democrats).

"the will of the people."

Shut the hell up. You could care less obout the will of the people when it doesn't jive with your sick agenda. Democrats can not even run an honest election as they lied their way into power once again and Republicans didn't help themselves either.

Like Mitchell said:

"That's not invective, just common sense."

I don't believe a damn thing Democrats say. The party who is proud that over 85% of felons vote democrat, want to give illegals drivers licenses so they can make up for up lost voters who become self informed like myself.

"You cannot fool me , you cannot defeat me , your mind is an open book to me"

Sound familiar?

Surely you can't be suggesting that democrats might be the teeniest bit hypocritical!

Rob, I know you love to bring up your voter registration, but I wonder if you ever think about what you're implying.

By the way I am registered democratic

I don't believe a damn thing Democrats say.

Therefore, you don't believe a damn thing you say. QED

Pudge:
I know, my emotions get carried away when thinking about our fearless, mindless leader. Sorry.

Best go read the Constititution though. There is nothing in there about invoking "Executive Authority". Term doesn't exist. President's take actions they may think expedient but the courts or Congress may intervene and override. The Constitution vests limited powers in the Presidency and for that matter in the Supreme Court. The bulk of governmental power rests with the Congress.

Presidents, over the years, have attempted to acquire powers never intended by the founding fathers, sometimes they have been corralled and sometimes they have been allowed additional powers for a certain set of circumstances but seldom universally. Congress has the Constitutional power to cut off all funding for the war and for the military should they so desire and there is nothing the President or the Supreme Court can do about it. So much for the powers of the Presidency.

You will also find that just because YOU determine that something someone said is aiding and abetting the enemy, it really doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things except for perhaps some Ho Ha's from your fellow rightwingers.

Ever wonder what would happen if any of these left wingers were in military in Iraq and spewed their crap?

Best go read the Constititution though. There is nothing in there about invoking "Executive Authority". Term doesn't exist.

Nor does Abortion or gay marriage or Hillary Care, denying the president nominees an up or down vote and much more. One thing I know for sure there is a mention of the word "TREASON" that gets mostly ignored and not enforced these days unless your caught with Al Qaeda trading bullets with our Soldiers. Nevermind the democrats on the sidelines of the battlefield with pom poms a waving.

"The bulk of governmental power rests with the Congress."

So much having "THREE EQUAL BRANCHES" especially one side is more interested in doing the job they were "NOT" elected to do.

"To mute the arguments and disagreements with this or any other war"

There is that democrat lie again. Never has the lies of the democrats been muted. On the contrary the fact of the matter is that it "IS" the democrats that are trying to silence any opposition and whose partners in the Media "LIE BY OMMISION" and how about that pathetic "Fairness Doctrine"? It's a joke. Poor Liberals , nobody will let us indoctrinate them over the Radio! WA! That's right ,you already do that with your liberal Media and and molest our children with your failed public school system and your army of stinkin frauds of Ward Churchhills stupifying the rest. And Liberal Hollywood? Please, go cry somewhere else.

"We, who disagree with your viewpoints, are merely doing the same thing"

The hell you are. I believe you would like for us to believe that as well as yourselves. Not happening , you nor your leaders do not lie that well. Not even close to "the bent one" , Slick Willie , not even close.

Your not that dumb Mantis , actually your not not dumb at all. You know.

wHAT IS QED?

It's all about the "ic" as if.

Quod erat demonstrandum

>I don't know about the others' constituencies, but if Durbin is cheerleading the war, that doesn't actually help him in '08 (not that he needs any help; he's a shoo-in). Illinois wants out, you know.

Not necessarily mantis... Even the people of Illinois will draw the line at comparing U.S. soldiers to Nazis... right? right? tell me I'm right...

"Ahhhhh! The genius right has done it again."

No, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the about-face timing of this news story.

"In re: Sen. Durbin. He did not, of course, compare our troops to Nazis and the Khmer Rouge."

Well, of course he didn't. That's why he never apologized for doing exactly that:

"Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) yesterday offered a tearful apology on the Senate floor for comparing the alleged abuse of prisoners by American troops to techniques used by the Nazis, the Soviets and the Khmer Rouge, as he sought to quell a frenzy of Republican-led criticism."

Thanks for clearing that up...

Man I hate Illinois Neo Nazis

Hey, when do we get the post about the Republicans "crawfishing". They've been doing it a lot longer than the Dems.

Hey Rob:
Sorry for implying that your thoughts were from a group rather than your own. It was just that I had seen the same babbling on fifty million other blog sites. Since there was nothing original in your rantings, surely no logic or intellectual underpinnings, I was sure these were cut and pasted from somewhere else. I believe your statement was meant to read, "They are stupid and mine". I know sometimes keying is a bitch.

The democratic party has it's share of registered imbeciles.

I don't pretend to speak for the nation. Anyone who reads and listens knows what the nation thinks about Iraq and our clueless chief executive.

I do realize that Bush was elected twice. That fact often reminds me of, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Please forward that quote to Dubya he can't seem to remember it.

Believe what you wish Rob. It makes no difference to me. But please work on expressing yourself, especially before changing tour voter registration; the Reps may not want you otherwise.

If Las Vegas was callous enough to run book on the war, how many of you are willing to bet the farm on victory?

How many Democrats are doing their level best to force a loss (without worrying about invalidating the lives lost) to cover the bets they made when they put their political careers on the line?

May I remind the history-deprived lefties here that it took approximately seven years after the end of WWII to turn West Germany and Japan back into true democracies?

May I also remind the lefties that both nations had a form of democracy prior to WWII (although Japan's was relatively weak, at least they had some experience with rule by democracy).

Iraq has never seen a democratic government (Saddam's faux "elections" notwithstanding). And we've only been their four years.

I have to wonder about you lefties. If you're doing a chore, say, painting a room, do you stand back halfway through and say, "it's a lost cause, we'll never get it done, let's just quit?" We've had a little over half the time it took to restore democracies to nations that have already had it, and you want to quit now?

Bullwinkle:

It is complete folly that Democrats want to "lose" this war in Iraq. Most of them are operating under the theory that this is not a militarily winnable war. This theory is echoed by many retired (the ones still active dare not be too vocal)officers and it is highly likely that most of them are Reps.

We are a culture that abhors losing at anything. This is especially true when we have invested lives, money and tremendous emotional energy. The idea that we cannot "invalidate" the lost lives by withdrawing presents a never ending conundrum. We never like to think about lives lost in vain but we could be there for years, losing more and more lives and yet never "winning" in the way Americans define "winning". At what point do we decide that no more lives should be lost?

There are a few hardcore Dems who believe we should get out now; the vast majority believe, however, that we need to change our definition of "winning" and redeploy our troops out of harms way engaging only Al Quaeda when the opportunity arises and focusing on building a viable Iraqi armed forces.

The mayhem that exists will continue to ebb and flow until our military resources are forced to wind down due to a lack of additional availability. At that point the civil strife will, once again, crescendo and we will not have the resources to counter it and Iraq will end up where it was always going to end up anyway. The only way to offset the military resource shortfall would be to reinstitute the draft; likely a deathknell to Reps and Dems alike, to say nothing of the draftees.

We all know that politics creates inane players espousing fatuous ideas. But this is often due to the need to pander to our lame populace and to salvage reelection. This phenomonon knows no party lines.

Not necessarily mantis... Even the people of Illinois will draw the line at comparing U.S. soldiers to Nazis... right? right? tell me I'm right...

Well, I was responding to your contention that Durbin and others were acknowledging the progress the surge has achieved because they are up for re-election, but anyway. First of all, I don't need to explain to you voter affinity toward incumbents, especially those from the party supported by the majority of the constituency. Second, my guess is that most of those who heard about the comments Durbin made about detainee treatment welcome them (they don't want our country to engage in behavior similar to the Nazis or Khmer Rouge, even if only hyperbolically so), or recognize the difference between saying "these methods are barbaric" and saying "our soldiers are exactly like Nazis." I understand that's a distinction you don't recognize. Plus, I would imagine that many of my fellow Illinoisans accepted his apology.

There's also the fact that there are many of us who value ideals enshrined in our Constitution which go back, oh, 800 years. A trifle, I know, but some of us think it's important.