I question the timing.

First La Shawn Barber (I sure I spelled that correctly...maybe I better go check...yes I did) complains about spam, and now minutes later you do.

Some of us have been fighting spam since before it had a name.

Those of you that have the ears and the eyes of the legislators and judges, how about some help here?

Dear Mr Jay Tea,
With reference to your problem with PBS (Public Bull Shit) I do request that you forgive me for useing cuss words.
About a month ago, out of the blue, I starting receiving e-mails from that SOB, Sen. Kerry. I reported this as spam. That appears to have resloved the problem.

Excellent post Jay and I couldn't agree with you more.

Using taxpayer (our) money to fund this anti-American propaganda (PBS, & NPR) is outrageous and must end!

The NEA is a waste of my money too.

The tire slashing incident was in Wisconsin. link

I have to defend PBS on the voter suppression story. All three of the incidents you listed were isolated ones. NOW's story, other the hand , reported on systematic voter suppression by a national party and they interview a former US attorney about it. I don't see what is so unfair about that. If you've got some dope on the Dems systematically suppressing the vote then please write a story about it.

Also, I can't find any media reports about the Philadelphia incident. A lot of Righty blogs reported the problem but no news outlets seem to have written about it.

.... exactly the reason I laugh my ass off whenever I hear, or see, pledge drives.

Especially since, in one of the radio spots here in Chicago, one of the "esteemed" radio talents started a bit of a chant:

"When I say radio, you say: NPR!

When I say Gaza, you say: Strip!"

I shit you not.

Nope. No bias here, folks, and I wouldn't cross the street to piss on the folk of NEA, NPR, PBS, et al, if they were on fire.

Blue, google's a friend, really:

http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=434

And, from the Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/01/politics/campaign/01voting.html?ex=1256965200&en=cf3106063411702b&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

"Michael Whouley, the get-out-the-vote expert at the Democratic National Committee, held a teleconference with reporters last week to insist that the reports of challenges and confusion at polling places (in Philly - yo] were greatly exaggerated. "American democracy is working," he said."

Said that they were exaggerated; but not incorrect. Crafty bastard, he.

Shit happens on both sides of the fence, man. The real question is, did NOW delve into the charges of Dem voter fraud, or did they simply focus on the GOP?

I dunno, honestly, I can't stomach watching shows that try to tell me what to think.

oh, and I think it painfully obvious to anyone who pays attention, that the DNC either farms out their dirty work to the grassroot zombies, and/or denies connection to said zombies but won't condemn, correct, or chastise these zombies for being naughty.

Happens on both sides, of course; don't get me wrong - it's just that the GOP doesn't have a publicly financed mouthpiece like PBS to help 'em out.

Also, I can't find any media reports about the Philadelphia incident. A lot of Righty blogs reported the problem but no news outlets seem to have written about it.

Bwhahahahaha....I'm sure the irony of this post is lost on the moron who wrote it.

You can't make this stuff up.

Blue, google's a friend, really:

Thanks for the snark. Where are the new reports? The Political Gateway story is an opinion piece from a Conservative and the NYT story is dated November 1, 2004, the day before the election. The quote you cited is from the week before the election.

Shit happens on both sides of the fence, man.

There doesn't seem to be much evidence that the Dems are systematically trying to suppress voters. The PBS program that Jay mentions has provides quite a bit of evidence suggesting that the Repubs are trying to suppress voters.

"There doesn't seem to be much evidence that the Dems are systematically trying to suppress voters."

And there doesn't seem to be much evidence that they don't, either.

The absence of proof does mean there is none. And that's the point of Jay's post.

Did NOW not find proof, or did they not look? Or, did they find some proof and decide not to include it in their report.

There is no way that you can respond to that other than to say that you don't know.

Which, to be all circular, is the point.

Unless, of course, you can find me some proof that the Dems are completely innocent of any voter fraud/suppression/intimidation.

You find me that proof, and I'll paint your house.

Granted, my links were weak - but just strong enough to indicate that there are shenanigans on both sides of the fence.

Remember: it's not bias if you agree with it.

"There doesn't seem to be much evidence that the Dems are systematically trying to suppress voters."
------------------------------------
Because the dems want a system to support their VOTER FRAUD. So liberal dems want to make it easier to cheat. The code word against the laws to make voter fraud more difficult is voter suppression.

Why should tax payer money be used to support an overt liberal propaganda? Yet they want to shut down talk radio in a free market. These are two examples of liberal double-speak.

Blue Neponset: To hell with news reports, here's actual VIDEO of the asshole in question:

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/11/07/election-intimidation-in-phill.php

J.

12. Posted by Jay Tea | August 24, 2007 2:08 PM

Well, there ya' go.

Here is a list of Dem voter frauds suggested to Joel for his investigation, but he doesn't seem interested. Looks like PBS is now only a liberal/dem propaganda arms.

http://opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010400

yo:

.... exactly the reason I laugh my ass off whenever I hear, or see, pledge drives.

Especially since, in one of the radio spots here in Chicago, one of the "esteemed" radio talents started a bit of a chant:

"When I say radio, you say: NPR!

When I say Gaza, you say: Strip!"

I shit you not.

And I haven't given money to WTTW in more than a decade. Every "Pledge Drive" is like an elderly shut-in festival with continual loops of Du-Wop or Andre Rieu!

Langtry,

The only redeeming value of WTTW is that they're in HD, now. Some of the nature programs are pretty good, but everything else is just slop.

91.5 ..., they can't rightly be in HD, now can they? So much for redemption - though I do listen, from time to time ... keeps the blood pressure up.

Heh ..., maybe we should talk to Jay and the gang about a Wiz-zers convention in Chi-town.

Oh, and there's NEVER any voter fraud here ... *cough*

If this is such a huge story then there should be news reports about it. I already watched the video and I am not sure a) who this guy is or b) what he did. Both the phone jamming and the tire slashing stories are easy to find. If this Philly story is as heinous as those two stories then there should be plenty of MSM press about it. Yet there isn't.

If this Philly story is as heinous as those two stories then there should be plenty of MSM press about it. Yet there isn't.
-------------------------------------
So this is another example of the bias and dishonesty of the liberal MSM. And PBS, esp NOW, is simply another bias liberal mouthpiece, funded by tax payer money. That 's even more shameful.

yo:

Heh ..., maybe we should talk to Jay and the gang about a Wiz-zers convention in Chi-town.

So this is another example of the bias and dishonesty of the liberal MSM. And PBS, esp NOW, is simply another bias liberal mouthpiece, funded by tax payer money. That 's even more shameful.

How come the tire slashing story got a lot of press? If your MSM is evil theory were correct then wouldn't that story have been suppressed too? Also, are there any non liberal MSM outlets that could have reported the Philly voter suppression story?

"Heh ..., maybe we should talk to Jay and the gang about a Wiz-zers convention in Chi-town."

I'd swing around the Lake for that.

How come the tire slashing story got a lot of press? If your MSM is evil theory were correct then wouldn't that story have been suppressed too? Also, are there any non liberal MSM outlets that could have reported the Philly voter suppression story?
-------------------------------------
It doesn't get the widespread coverage and deserve an investigation from NOW/PBS for example. That says it all. The same for Iraq reporting if we care about the truth.

WE should see more stories on voter frauds and how the liberal dems are against voter ID laws to prevent frauds. Instead we see spins like "voter suppression" to cover up voter frauds. Here you have it. If you truly care about voter fraud, you would laugh at the obvious bias/dishonesty of PBS/NOW program.

"If your MSM is evil theory were correct then wouldn't that story have been suppressed too?"

And we may have come full circle.

Langtry, we'd need to get a rubber ducky, of course. And, I'm not sure how many folks are actually in the area.

What're the odds on getting Jay here?

Here again is a list of dem voter frauds (from John Fund) for widespread coverage and discussion if you care about voter frauds

http://opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010400

It doesn't get the widespread coverage and deserve an investigation from NOW/PBS for example. That says it all. The same for Iraq reporting if we care about the truth.

Why does it deserve an investigation from NOW/PBS? I still don't know who that guy in the video is and what he did? Those should be easy questions to answer yet no one seems to want to answer them.

"Why does it deserve an investigation from NOW/PBS??

Isn't that what journalists do?

As for the who and the what of the guy in the video is - click the link and read. It's all there.

The tire slashing story got some press, but it got less press than the myths propagated about nonexistant GOP voter suppression that never happened.

As for the who and the what of the guy in the video is - click the link and read. It's all there.

The guy's name is Carlos Mantos. What is his connection to the Democratic Party? Is he an election official? How did he prevent Republican poll watchers from accessing the polling places of Philadelphia? Kim's original link goes to a 30 second youtube video and a Redstate.com story which states:

In wards 7, 19, 51 in Philly, PA, the crowds are going wild. Inside several voting locations, individuals have poured white out onto the polling books and the poll workers are allowing voters to go into the polls and vote without first registering. Several individuals are on hand demanding that voters vote straight Democrat.

RNC lawyers have headed to the scene of the incidents, which are occurring in mostly hispanic precinct locations. The District Attorney has also been contacted.

More from the ground: Reports of voter intimidation by son-in-law of Philadelphia City Commissioner in 19th Ward. Carlos Mantos is not allowing Republican poll watchers with valid poll-watching certificates monitor polling places.

What laws did this guy break? Was he charged with any crimes like the phone jammer and the tire slashers? Did the poll watchers eventually gain access to the polling places? Were any poll-watchers injured? Have any voters claimed they were not allowed to vote as a result of Mr. Mantos' actions?

If this was such an iron clad example of voter suppression then someone should have asked and answered these questions already. Instead, all we have are accusations and little else.

Why does it deserve an investigation from NOW/PBS?
-------------------------------------
A whole set of dem voter fraud cases. I thought you care about systematic voter fraud (as well as PBS/NOW). Thanks for confirming that you really don't care about that. And in the end, we seem to come to the agreement that PBS/NOW is simply a liberal propaganda source on tax-payer money. That is a real shame. We should stop this scam of tax payer money. People like Joel can work at other liberal outlets like CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC etc...

"If this was such an iron clad example of voter suppression then someone should have asked and answered these questions already. Instead, all we have are accusations and little else."

And with the NOW story, all we have is one side of the story, too. You'd think Schwartberg would have asked, investigated and answered issues from both sides.

Instead all he gives us are incomplete and biased reports.

Oh well.

As for Mr. Mantos ..., and I'm not up on my poll laws and such, but I think standing in front of the polls passing out literature telling people to "vote straight democrat" may not be illegal, but it sure as hell is unethical.

Thanks for confirming that you really don't care about that.

No problem. Can you answer my questions about the Philly voter suppression story now?

Blue, sure, for me this is another example of the dems trying to cheat in election and voter suppression is just a spin to cover up VOTER FRAUD (I quote from your post). It is a shame that PBS used tax payer money to support such a biased propaganda.
I don't know why you ask those questions to me. Do you support those actions or you don't think it is a big deal to intimidate the poll watchers so that the dems can cheat in an election? In other words, if it is legal then it is OK? Is that why the democrats don't want voterID law so that we can cheat without breaking the law?

In wards 7, 19, 51 in Philly, PA, the crowds are going wild. Inside several voting locations, individuals have poured white out onto the polling books and the poll workers are allowing voters to go into the polls and vote without first registering. Several individuals are on hand demanding that voters vote straight Democrat.

BTW, the dem party is the one trying to suppress voter. By making it easier for voter fraud, they in effect nullify or suppress the votes of legal/honest Americans.

And with the NOW story, all we have is one side of the story, too. You'd think Schwartberg would have asked, investigated and answered issues from both sides.

What is the other side? A partisan Democrat handing out literature in front of a polling station in Philly? Do you really think that story compares with the report that PBS did on Republican based voter suppression? Even if you don't agree with how PBS reported that story, the evidence they present is much more compelling than a Youtube video, a Redstate diary and a John Fund article.

I just don't see any evidence that the Dems are systematically trying to suppress voter turnout. If there is such evidence then I would be interested to see it. Until that time, however, the Philly incident, the tire slashing fracas, and the shenanigans of ACORN just don't compare to what PBS reports and documents.

You know, when you think about it, the very successful efforts of the MSM at making sure the voters are intellectual invalids by selectively reporting only the left side of each story could be considered to be systematic voter supresssion.

Yeah, I know they're not really suppressing voters, but they do their best to make sure that Average Joe bases his decisions on only the very small subset of all available facts that actually supports the leftist's ideology.

Blue,
The whole list of VOTER FRAUD case in John Fund 's articles there for you to see. The obvious hypocrisy or dishonesty of NOW is so apparent for all to see. The same is that they are doing it on tax payer money. They should spend their own money for their own propaganda at the very least. Or are you trying to minimize VOTER FRAUD? This is the heart of our election. Why don't the Dems want to make it harder to commit voter fraud? That 's the key question for me.

BTW, JOhn Fund has more credibility than Joel Schwartzberg and Wal Street Journal at least didn't use publick money to publish Fund 's investigative report.

The whole list of VOTER FRAUD case in John Fund's articles there for you to see.

I have seen and read the article. It lists isolated incidences of potential voter fraud and it documents ACORN's wrong doings. What that article doesn't do is provide evidence that the Democrats are systematically trying to suppress voting by their political opponents. PBS/NOW on the other hand does provide ample evidence that Republicans are systematically trying to suppress voting by their political opponents.

I linked to the evidence above.

Blue,
We have provided examples of DEM voter frauds and you come back with voter suppression. I take it to mean that by making it harder to commit voter fraud means voter suppression in your propaganda lingo. In other words, you seem to agree that the Dem party is a party of voter fraud.
Voter suppressin is just another less than honest spin to cover up dem voter fraud. Again, it is a shame that PBS/NOW is using tax payer money to cover up/perpetuate voter fraud.

"What is the other side? "

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that the job of journalist is to gather and deciminate all of the information, not just the part of the story which validates the concept with which they entered into the situation?

The other side is: how, if at all, are the Dems involved in any nefarious voter issues? If the story is pointed only at the GOP, then the other side goes unattended. As a well-thinking person, you should demand that the story be comprehensive.

You're more than willing to take some dude's word for it. Why? Cuz he's on the teevee? Because he thinks like you and/or you agree with him?

Like I said: it ain't bias if you agree with it.

Actually, you're more than willing to be hand fed information and even moreso willing to excuse or otherwise ignore the idea that there may be more to the story.

That, my friend, is step one in the construction of echo chambers.

And you insinuate that the right is closed minded.

Blue:

ow come the tire slashing story got a lot of press? If your MSM is evil theory were correct then wouldn't that story have been suppressed too?

Ah... maybe the exception to the rule is in effect.

No one claims the MSM is so lock stepping full of bias they completely ignore the "other side."

But the bias is plain to see and more than a few studies have proven it.

"Nice" scramble though after being proven incorrect.

You guys are in Chicago too? I would definitely show up if you guys were gathering here. That would be a hoot.

The other side is: how, if at all, are the Dems involved in any nefarious voter issues? If the story is pointed only at the GOP, then the other side goes unattended. As a well-thinking person, you should demand that the story be comprehensive.

Sometimes there is no other side to report on. That is the point I have been trying to make. If the best evidence you have of systematic Democratic voter fraud/voter suppression is some guy in Philly handing out pamphletes or ACORN's shenanigans then there really isn't any comparable malfeasence on the Democratic side. The simple fact is the Democrats aren't systematically trying to suppress the vote of their political opponents. The Republicans are. PBS reports on how they did it and who was affected.

If you want to argue voter caging isn't voter suppression then have at it, but please don't claim it isn't happening. I linked to the evidence PBS provided a couple of times already.

Sometimes both parties just aren't doing the same bad things. The reason Woodward and Bernstien didn't report on the Democrats breaking into the RNC headquarters before the 72 election is because it didn't happen.

Actually, you're more than willing to be hand fed information and even moreso willing to excuse or otherwise ignore the idea that there may be more to the story.

Aside from disagree with you, I don't know what I have said that makes you think I am willing to be hand fed information. I have been linking to the information I have used to help me make up my mind during this whole discussion. I have also been asking everyone here for more information and little has been given.

I don't think we will ever agree about voter fraud but if you want me to concede the point that the Dems are doing it just as much as the Repubs are then I need more than a youtube video and a John Fund article. If that is too much to ask then maybe we are both constructing an echo chamber.

mantis,

flippy cups or corn holes for ideological dominance?

Blue,

I see your point, but if you want me to believe that Dems don't engage in voter fraud and the GOP does, ... well, it ain't gonna' happen.

You're right that more data needs to be brought to the table, of course you are (I mean that), but you're showing signs of naiveté to automatically dismiss the Dem fraud.

My point is that there's more than enough circumstantial evidence to warrant a thorough investigation into Dem fraud - and NOW is simply going to ignore it. That's what PBS does.

As a liberal democrat, that sort of behavior should infuriate you, as well.

Truth is the ultimate goal of journalists. What we're seeing with Schwartzberg is anything BUT the search for truth.

Go back to the point of the thread, looks like we have an agreement that PBS/NOW is a shame in using tax-payer money for such a biased less than honest propaganda. It would take a lot more than this piece of propaganda to give to shred of credibility.

Just a few more links if Joe simply spent 15 mins to research.

http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=434
Report Documents Massive Democratic Voter Fraud

Blue, how about this:

Both sides have attempted to manipulate the vote. Republicans, at their worst, try to keep people from voting. Democrats, at their worst, attempt to get people who shouldn't be voting to cast ballots. (I. E., ACORN's heinous offenses.) The net effect is the same -- would-be legitimate votes are nullified.

Although the Democrats have done the same kind of vote suppression, too -- the tire slashing incident, the intimidating of Republicans at the Philadelphia ballots, and the wholesale disqualification of military absentee ballots in Florida in 2000.

Both are contemptible and outrageous and should be denounced and punished severely. I think the penalties imposed on the Republicans for the 2002 New Hampshire Senate phone-jamming scandal was far too lax.

Why can't you agree with that?

Why not have voter ID law to cut down voter fraud? The dem party doesn't want this law. That says it all for me.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009189
A recent Pew Research Center survey found that blacks today are almost twice as likely as they were in 2004 to say they have little or no confidence in the voting system. Such a finding would seem like a powerful argument for voter ID laws, which consistently poll well among people of all races and incomes and would increase confidence in the voting process. Of course, voter ID laws would also cut down on fraud, which, judging from the latest indictments, would put a real crimp in Acorn's style.

My point is that there's more than enough circumstantial evidence to warrant a thorough investigation into Dem fraud - and NOW is simply going to ignore it. That's what PBS does.

I am not claiming the Dems are as pure as the driven snow. All politicians are pigs at the same trough. I just think my pigs, as a group, are a bit more honest than your pigs in this particular case. As a result of that, I don't think PBS did anything wrong by focusing on Republicans.

Thanks for the dialog. Enjoy the weekend.

As a result of that, I don't think PBS did anything wrong by focusing on Republicans.
------------------------------------
Since PBS is your pig too, so you wouldn't mind. That 's fine. Why should tax payer money be used to support your pig? If your pigs are more honest, then they wouldn't use tax-payer money for this blatant scam. This is simply an example that your pig is less than honest.

LAI:

Go back to the point of the thread

Ok lets do that shall we?

It doesn't get better than PBS's own ombudsman smacking down Bill Moyers for being a partisan asshat beyond compare.

Blue Neponset, so your conclusion that your side is more honorable is based upon what was by your own admission biased reporting?

Not impressive. Not at all.

For trolls like Blue facts are not really the issue. This from a recent article by John Fund of the WSJ: "the most interesting news came out of Seattle, where on Thursday local prosecutors indicted seven workers for Acorn, a union-backed activist group that last year registered more than 540,000 low-income and minority voters nationwide and deployed more than 4,000 get-out-the-vote workers. The Acorn defendants stand accused of submitting phony forms in what Secretary of State Sam Reed says is the "worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history" of the state." The strategy of Democrats is not to suppress votes, it is to register fraudulent voters. Acorn, a union supported non-profit is being investigated in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Missouri, at least, for voter fraud and campaign irregularities. Why are Demos so anti-identification of voters at polling places? Because that will raise the risk that voter fraud will be detected. Maybe your buddy Schwartzberg has a report on Acorn and voter fraud in the works right now.

Jay is right. The end result is that legitimate votes are nullified. I take great pleasure in canceling out my liberal brother's vote at every opportunity with my own vote. But if his vote was canceled out by a dead person's vote or another person's second vote, I'd be furious. Blue calls this "shenanigans".

The fact is that the Dem "shenanigans" (as if it was just childish game play) was so widespread a new account of what was going on seemed to hit the papers almost every day.

This is what Joel chose to ignore over exposing the Republicans plans to suppress votes. Perhaps to him, the Dems never rose above shenanigans either.

Fraud, suppression, whatever. They're all vile acts by people to control the outcome of an election. Blue would prefer to play the word game though claiming that fraud is shenanigans and suppression is the work of the devil. And when he can't defend this, his response is, "Thanks for the dialog. Enjoy the weekend."

Old Blue. His philosophy is a republican kills 100 men but a democrat kills 99, then only the republican did anything worth reporting. And his use of the word shennanegans regarding ACORN is laughable. That is a national organizaqion with strong ties to the DNC leadership. I have read on the comment thread that both sides are guilty of the same thing. It is predictable that the liberal cannot admit this. ww

Jay,

You have been removed from the update email list going forward, per your clear request here.

NOW

Translation: You've pointed out my hackery. I will no longer make it so easy for you to do so.

Clearer translation of Joel:

* * * * *

Even though you did NOT clearly request to be taken off the list, I'm going to pretend you did. I won't bother explaining why I put you on the list without your knowledge or consent in the first place, but my bosses are tired of the shit getting stirred up every time I hit another of your hot buttons.

In the meantime, I'm going to keep sucking up your tax dollars, Jay, I just won't be sending you regular notice of the propaganda you're paying for.

* * * * *

J.

Clearer translation of Joel:

* * * * *

Even though you did NOT clearly request to be taken off the list, I'm going to pretend you did. I won't bother explaining why I put you on the list without your knowledge or consent in the first place, but my bosses are tired of the shit getting stirred up every time I hit another of your hot buttons.

In the meantime, I'm going to keep sucking up your tax dollars, Jay, I just won't be sending you regular notice of the propaganda you're paying for.

* * * * *

J.

Please note that the above translation was authored completely by Jay. I did indeed place the generic wizbang email address on the email list, with apologies. It has since been removed.

If anyone is interested in receiving updates from NOW, since you all seem to respond to it so passionately, you can easily take the liberty of signing up for our weekly newsletter here:

http://www.pbs.org/now/newsletter.html

Also feel free to respond to the "AWOL" story in particular here. Not all submissions will be posted due to resource constraints:

http://www.pbs.org/now/php/quotes.php?quote_date=2007-08-24

I'll give him this, he has the balls to show up here

"I'll give him this, he has the balls to show up here"

And to solicit more readers!

I'll give him this, he has the balls to show up here

Yes, but whose balls are they, and why are they in Joel's mouth?