« Extreme Opinions, Extreme Ignorance | Main | If you aren't already reading... »

A New View On Iraq

If you have not yet read the recent opinion piece from Representative Brian Baird, then read the whole thing. He was against the war from the beginning, yet now sees enough progress being made in the region to justify giving our military additional time to complete the mission.

The invasion of Iraq may be one of the worst foreign-policy mistakes in the history of our nation. As tragic and costly as that mistake has been, a precipitous or premature withdrawal of our forces now has the potential to turn the initial errors into an even greater problem just as success looks possible.

As a Democrat who voted against the war from the outset and who has been frankly critical of the administration and the post-invasion strategy, I am convinced by the evidence that the situation has at long last begun to change substantially for the better. I believe Iraq could have a positive future. Our diplomatic and military leaders in Iraq, their current strategy, and most importantly, our troops and the Iraqi people themselves, deserve our continued support and more time to succeed.

...how can someone who opposed the war now call for continuing the new directions that have been taken in Iraq? The answer is that the people, strategies and facts on the ground have changed for the better and those changes justify changing our position on what should be done.

Update: GayPatriot has a great post on how the MSM favor congressmen whose views on Iraq fit their preferred narrative.


TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/23626.

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference A New View On Iraq:

» The Mighty Righty linked with A Democrat changes his tune

Comments (106)

Watch Richardson change Tig... (Below threshold)
kim:

Watch Richardson change Tigresses in mid-Euphrates; his previous mount will have been spooked by a Baird.
===================

"The invasion of Iraq may b... (Below threshold)
RobLACal.:

"The invasion of Iraq may be one of the worst foreign-policy mistakes in the history of our nation."

"MAY BE"

"As a Democrat who voted against the war from the outset and who has been frankly critical of the administration"

"HAS BEEN"

Thanks to stupid democrats and their failure to resemble anything remotely American in their actions or disgusting speak , I "WILL NOT BE" voting democratic now , in the near future if ever at all.

Watch Baird be Lieberman-ed... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Watch Baird be Lieberman-ed.

C-C-G said:<blockquo... (Below threshold)
Lledowynn:

C-C-G said:

Watch Baird be Lieberman-ed.

I cannot fathom how the moonbat left would be stupid enough to do that to Baird. If they do manage to do that, I think it would be a tactical error in their part, in that the mainstream American people would see just how insane the Democratic Party has become. I mean what's next -- purges?

Then again, the moonbat left has not been known for intelligent decision making.

Speaking of the war, I was ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Speaking of the war, I was reading over at newsbusters.org how on his show the other night Bill Maher was interviewing a war journalist over in Iraq and asking him all sorts of leading questions, giving this reporter a chance to bash the war, etc. and it was obvious what Bill wanted the answers to be. Unfortunately for him, the reporter was not telling him what he and other lying libs want to hear. He said morale was high and other positive things. I haven't seen the tape yet, but apparently Bill Maher didn't look too happy.

Bwahahahahahah......LOVE IT!!!!

Indeed, read the Baird edit... (Below threshold)

Indeed, read the Baird editorial and pay close attention to his concern and the concerns of other nations in the region if the US were to withdraw now.

Then read this:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/contentions/index.php/wehner/827

There is a theory, Hugh, th... (Below threshold)
kim:

There is a theory, Hugh, that Bush waited until just the right moment to confront his adversaries with the contradiction in their belief that Iraq is a quagmire like Vietnam. They had counted on us not remembering the aftermath, which we had suppressed.

I'll tell you right now, guilt over the Cambodians fuels a lot of my rage against these cockroaches.
=======================================================

Says RobLACal:Than... (Below threshold)
MichaelC:

Says RobLACal:

Thanks to stupid democrats and their failure to resemble anything remotely American in their actions or disgusting speak (sic), I "WILL NOT BE" voting democratic now , in the near future if ever at all.


My my, I learn something about someone every day. Is this something new for you, Rob?

Compared to every other war... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Compared to every other war the United States has been involved in, Iraq is and will continue to be the greatest success off all time. Around 3800 casualities in 5 years compared to 50,000 + in other wars and with the Islamic nuts trying to kill every person that doesn't bow and kiss their a** we have had '0' attacks on the homeland, embassies or ships. Keeping them hiding under a rock has worked well. Now we have a slew of democrats wanting to put us back to being the whipping boy for every terrorists in the world. I can't figure out if the democrats are all cowards or if they simply place their personal power above life and death for they're families? Either way they are a bunch of sick puppies.

I cannot fathom ho... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:
I cannot fathom how the moonbat left would be stupid enough to do that to Baird. If they do manage to do that, I think it would be a tactical error in their part, in that the mainstream American people would see just how insane the Democratic Party has become. I mean what's next -- purges?

Lledowynn, they were stupid enough to do it to Lieberman. In fact, that is, if memory serves, Kos' only electoral victory, despite all the grandiose claims coming from the Kossacks. Changing Joe Lieberman from a D to an I. Lieberman is still just as liberal as Hillary on domestic issues, yet because of his apostasy on that one topic, the party drove him out.

I firmly predict that they will at least attempt to do it to Baird. It's possible they will even succeed. Somehow they are under the delusion that doing so would be a step on the path to victory.

Lledowynn:I ca... (Below threshold)
marc:

Lledowynn:

I cannot fathom how the moonbat left would be stupid enough to do that to Baird. If they do manage to do that, I think it would be a tactical error in their part, in that the mainstream American people would see just how insane the Democratic Party has become. I mean what's next -- purges?

Need I point out Lieberman was a purge?

As to your other point, you're just not paying much attention to the nutroots or if you have, failed to understand the extent their "nutrootiness" has led them.

One example, of many, you may have missed:

Matt Stoller has produced a "snappy" logo, "tighten the leash on Bush Dog Democrats," it intones.

Never underestimate the nuttiness of the nutroots, the fact they are about to turn on the very segment of the party (Blue Dog Dems) that put them in office shouldn't be a surprise.

Not one bit. They are a bunch of vindictive hateful lunatics conceived by a mating of Al Gore and a bunch of fellow Palm Beach nutjobs in 2000 but only named at a later date.

I mean what's next... (Below threshold)
stan25 Author Profile Page:
I mean what's next -- purges?

That is what they tried to do to Joe Lieberman, when he ran for re-election and look what it got them. Joe Lieberman is one of the first independent party people that was elected in a landslide. Both the Democrat and Republican voters saw what was going on and they gave the far-left a black eye in the state of Connecticut. Unfortunately, their black eye was not deep enough. I guess that it will take a major upheaval in this country to really open the eyes of the sheeple and throw the far-left loons out on their ears.

Ahh... and the fun begins .... (Below threshold)
yo:

Ahh... and the fun begins ...

Just gonna sit back and watch the liberals' heads pop over this one.

Things are getting better? ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Things are getting better? The daily Iraqi casualty rate for 2007 is twice that of 2006 (source AP). The daily average of US causalities for Aug is higher than all but two months in 2006 (source Iraq Casualty Org.). The Iraqi government is near collapse, and looking to Syrian and Iran as props. THe Pentagon has said that troop withdrawals have to begin starting in the spring '08, yet the NIE said it will take a year to a year and one half of surge level troops to make a difference.

Yo said:J... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Yo said:

Just gonna sit back and watch the liberals' heads pop over this one.

Have you noticed, my friend, the absolute dearth of lefty trolls in this thread? None of our usual suspects has let out so much as a peep on this one.

I can think of several reasons why that would be, and no doubt so can you.

Scrap you beat me to it.</p... (Below threshold)
Baggi:

Scrap you beat me to it.

I cannot figure out how this country was ever convinced of the negative spin of Iraq. We've never had such a successful war. We probably never will again. People will be looking back at the Bush administration for years to come of its unmitigated success in the face of huge political stumbling blocks.

It's incredible how wonderful we've done in Iraq and what we've done for the people there. Makes me proud to be an American.

May God Bless President George W. Bush.

Darn it, Barney snuck in wh... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Darn it, Barney snuck in while I was writing. I should have known he couldn't resist.

Hey, Barney, have you ever heard of the concept of things getting worse before they get better? Take surgery, for instance... you actually inflict more harm on the human body (incisions, etc) in order to set it on the path to healing.

And US casualties still aren't near what it took to take one single island in WWII. I speak, of course, of Iwo Jima. So save all your spin. You're starting to sound like Baghdad Bob.

KimLet's hope Warner... (Below threshold)

Kim
Let's hope Warner's constituents flood his office with the Baird editorial tomorrow.

And I agree, the Cambodian disaster has always been treated as "Move along, move along. Nothing to see here"

barneyGRUBBLE:... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyGRUBBLE:

Things are getting better?

Better ask that question of Representative Baird.

Or ask Baghdad Bureau Chief John F. Burns.

Or Hillary: "It's working. We're just years too late in changing our tactics," she said. "We can't ever let that happen again. We can't be fighting the last war. We have to keep preparing to fight the new war."

But you don't want to see, hear or read any of that and is the reason why you posted what you did.

Barney has been tutored on ... (Below threshold)

Barney has been tutored on this very topic numerous times here. See the thread above on TrollPsych.

Yeah but I fail to see wher... (Below threshold)
marc:

Yeah but I fail to see where the tutor used a basball bat to accomplish their ultimate goal Hugh.

Good point marc. C... (Below threshold)

Good point marc.

Continue to use that bat....just watch the pine tar: Barney is just the one to call you on it when you hit one out of the park!

Cordially
George Brett

<a href="http://www.nytimes... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

"You have your flak jacket on, and your Kevlar helmet and you're surrounded by guys with automatic weapons as you're standing there, talking to the mayor. And you realize there's a dusty old car next to you and you're saying, 'God, I hope that doesn't blow up"

I'm glad the congressmen after his heavily escorted treatment, thinks the surge is working(for him) but I'd still feel more reassured if he could walk around a lttle more freely before accepting his new views on Iraq.

CCG, happy to make you look... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

CCG, happy to make you look like an ass. As far as "military gains" as all have conceded, the gains fall into two categories.

1) Securing Baghdad, is temporary based on the NIE I referenced to above because the Iraqi security force is not capable of taking over for coalition forces and we can not extend the surge more than another six months.

2) The Sunni tribal retribution against al Qeada in Iraq is due to pulling US troops out and not surging troops into. I recommended this strategy several months ago.

As lovie (one of your one) has endorsed the solution is to pull forces out while still suppling material, training and logistical support.

It is time for new thinking on Iraq. Bush gave it his best shots (which amounted to little as apparent to his statue) and to look to partition as Biden has suggested or to installing a Sunni strong man (which we already had in place).

Take your pick.

Correction: That should ha... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Correction: That should have read "one of your own".

SteveSo what do we h... (Below threshold)

Steve
So what do we have here?

A Congressman writes an entire editorial in his own name; and we have the NYT cherry picking that Congressman's statements to flavor an article....a news piece ....that fits the paper's spin. Steve, this is why the NYT is walking dead in this world. They have no credibility. Who you gonna believe? The NYT or an editorial written by one of their own who has left the plantation? Who ya gonna believe? The NYT or their lying eyes?

barneyGRUBBLE:... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyGRUBBLE:

2) The Sunni tribal retribution against al Qeada in Iraq is due to pulling US troops out and not surging troops into. I recommended this strategy several months ago.

Your basic point is horse crap. What Sunni controlled area has seen a reduction of troops? (and a link to your source. It's not that I don't trust you.... Umm... well yes it is)

Secondly, link please to where you offered "this strategy."

The Sunni tribal r... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:
The Sunni tribal retribution against al Qeada in Iraq is due to pulling US troops out and not surging troops into.

Wrong wrong wrongeddy wrong!

Straight from MNF-Iraq:

SAMARRA -- Paratroopers from Company C, 2nd Battalion, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, have been patrolling and operating in Samarra for more than one year and recently supported the Iraqi security forces in a clearing operation to rid the city of the al-Qaida presence terrorizing Samarra and its citizens.

The operation was dubbed "Operation Jalil" in honor of Col. Jalil Nahi Hasoun, Samarra's former police chief, who was killed May 6, 2007, during a suicide car bomb attack.

The operation led Maj. Gen. Rashid al-Helfy, commander of Iraqi security forces in Samarra, his men, and paratroopers of Company C to the discovery of weapons caches, bomb making materials and the detainment of more than 80 suspected terrorists, including suspects responsible for the June 13, 2007, bombing of the Askirya Mosque.

Seems that the news proves you wrong. The Iraqis are fighting alongside us.. kinda hard to do if we'd been "pulling troops out" as you say.

Because you are so often and so completely wrong, in the mold of the infamous Baghdad Bob, I hereby dub thee "Baghdad Barney."

Representative Brian Baird<... (Below threshold)

Representative Brian Baird

Been in office since 1998, last election in 2006:

Brian Baird (D) (cw) 63.2%
Michael Messmore (R) (cw) 36.8%

Why would he wander off the reservation?

I ask the trolls: Is this ploitically motivated or a matter of principle? Or, as Steve and the NYT imply, did he just get the royal treatment and come away impressed....which is to subtley call him an idiot. I hear Ted Lamont music wafting in the background already. But wait...63.2% vs 36.8%...that sounds like a Leiberman composition.

From Crickmores link:... (Below threshold)
marc:

From Crickmores link:

Iraqi officials view the Congressional visits -- quick in-and-out trips -- with a blend of appreciation and scorn. Most wish the Americans would stay longer.

"They need to get out of the circle, to meet some new people, to understand, to hear some new ideas," said Shatha al-Musawi, a Shiite lawmaker who founded a well-known women's group soon after the American invasion. She said several women in Parliament asked to meet the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, during her recent visit. But the speaker did not have time.

"Funny" how that works, Saddam never had woman in "his Parliament," yet Pelosi didn't have time to meet with any of the female members that hold a seat in the current one.

Yet she had more than enough time jetting off to air-kiss the myopic optometrist in Syria.

C-C-G:Because ... (Below threshold)
marc:

C-C-G:

Because you are so often and so completely wrong, in the mold of the infamous Baghdad Bob, I hereby dub thee "Baghdad Barney."

But not nearly as funny.

HughS...I think you have to... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

HughS...I think you have to listen to everyone and make up your own minds.(there are so many factors involved). It's true that some congressman (hey they are accorded alot of attention in Iraq) and some of the American public have changed their minds. Petraeus by no means is complacent. Whether a uptick in Iraq, in the situation after all (it's very hot in August for the insurgents too), is enough?..I think everyone would agree that by keeping the presure on, whatever the decision-to continue the surge or not is good..I tend to be pessimistic as you know, but I think the surge idea based on bench marks or goal posts even if Bush moves the goal posts, was better than the blank check approach.

Baghdad Bob: United States ... (Below threshold)

Baghdad Bob: United States Army? What United States Army? Never heard of such thing.

Baghdad Barney: Victory? What victory? No such thing, never happen. Can't have that.

Baghdad Bob: I spit on United States Army.

Baghdad Barney: I spit on United States Army.

"These villains, and in... (Below threshold)
marc:

"These villains, and in particular the villain Bush, said they had struck Iraq with 40 cruise missiles to assassinate President Saddam Hussein. Not only are they disappointed, I think they are hysterical." - Baghdad Bob

"These Wizbang villains, and in particular the villain Bush, said they had struck Wizbang Blue with 40 cruise missiles to assassinate President Lee Ward Not only are they disappointed, I think they are hysterical." - Baghdad Barney

"Nobody came here. Those America losers, I think their repeated frequent lies are bringing them down very rapidly.... Baghdad is secure, is safe." - Baghdad Bob

"Nobody came here. Those Wizbang losers, I think their repeated frequent lies are bringing them down very rapidly.... Wizbang Blue secure, is safe from common sense, justice and the American way" Baghdad Barney

CCG, Samarra is the city of... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

CCG, Samarra is the city of the Golden Dome, so what we are seeing there are Shiite protecting there own as part of the surge. I was talking about Sunni killing al Qeada. If you can not keep up, please stay on the sidelines.

Baghdad Barney, where's you... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Baghdad Barney, where's your link to your alleged "evidence" for this?

I certainly hope you don't expect me to just take your word for it, because if you told me stone was hard I'd try a rock as a pillow.

As far as Baghdad Bob that ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

As far as Baghdad Bob that is very funny. I am looking for a solution. You are proposing a continuation of bleeding our army and resources dry while al Qaeda grows stronger in both Afghanistan, Iraq and other part of the world, so that must make you guys "al Qeada Gadahan".

CCG, I do not know what are... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

CCG, I do not know what are you talking about? Are you saying that Samarra is not controlled by Shiite? Are you saying that the "gains" the military is boasting about is not due to non surge Sunni tribes turning on Al Qaeda, and due to surge forces that can not continue past April of next year?

Do you really need a link to know that these are true?

Hey Barn' when did you get ... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Hey Barn' when did you get back from Iraq? How many Sunni did you talk to? Did you have your "flak" jacket on? Or I am not "keeping" up?

I am saying, show me where ... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

I am saying, show me where Sunni tribes are turning on Al Qaeda due to a pullout of troops from that area.

You cannot do that because there have been no pullouts yet.

Good God, do you not even know what you are claiming?

Go back to Kos for new talking points, Baghdad Barney, these are worn out.

barneyGRUBBLE....Y... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyGRUBBLE....

You mean like the Sunni outpost of Diala?

A place where 537 Al Qaeda have been killed or captured since June 19 by a force comprised of "Seven-thousand soldiers took part in these operations in addition to 3,821 recruits enlisted in 35 security training centers all over the province," Maj. General Abdul-Kareem al-Rubaie, the Diala chief of operations, told the independent news agency Voices of Iraq (VOI).

BTW barn... where's that link to your "prediction?"

Steve <b... (Below threshold)


Steve

even if Bush moves the goal posts, was better than the blank check approach.

I'm not sure what you mean by the blank check approach, but Bush is conducting a war. The idea that he must set certain unchangeable goals in a war is unrealistic. No President has operated under those restraints in wartime. Said another way, placing those restraints on Lincoln would have had the result of a divided union. Roosevelt moved the goal posts before the war even began for the US. See Lend Lease. See the early Pacific campaign at Guadalcanal and Palau. See PATTON!

You should read Stephen Hayes' book "Cheney" because it presents a very good and well researched presentation of Rums field. I admire Rums field, but his war strategy was not working. Hence his 2006 resignation. This is the rub between level headed conservatives and level headed liberals (no, I am not saying that is an oxymoron). A new war strategy has been implemented and appears to be working.

That is the news of the day. Now we will see who is serious about winning in Iraq and who is demagoguing the war effort.

This trend started turning several weeks ago, and as Kim noted above, it is no coincidence that the President reminded the country of the consequences of retreating from an ally that has bought into our commitment so completely.

This note from the former Prime Minister of Cambodia (see link above) is gut wrenching:

Dear Excellency and Friend:

I thank you very sincerely for your letter and for your offer to transport me towards freedom. I cannot, alas, leave in such a cowardly fashion. As for you, and in particular for your great country, I never believed for a moment that you would have this sentiment of abandoning a people which has chosen liberty. You have refused us your protection, and we can do nothing about it.

You leave, and my wish is that you and your country will find happiness under this sky. But, mark it well, that if I shall die here on the spot and in my country that I love, it is no matter, because we all are born and must die. I have only committed this mistake of believing in you [the Americans].

Please accept, Excellency and dear friend, my faithful and friendly sentiments.

S/Sirik Matak

If the surge is succeeding, then we should redouble our efforts. The blame game is a distraction the enemy places before us every day. In 1940, it was the courage of Democrats who that defeated the isolationists led by Lindbergh and Kennedy. Perhaps Baird is at the tip of that same spear today.

Here is your proof:<p... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Here is your proof:

UPI Pentagon Correspondent
Washington (UPI) Sep 15, 2006
The general in charge of U.S. military forces in Iraq defended his decision to take a battalion of soldiers out of violent Anbar province and move them into Baghdad for what will be a multi-month campaign to bring the capital city under control.

Washington (UPI... (Below threshold)
marc:

Washington (UPI) Sep 15, 2006


THAT'S your "proof?" An unlinked blurb for a FRICKIN' YEAR AGO!!!!!!

And 4-6 months BEFORE the new strategy was in place!!!!!

I didn't think it were possible.... but you've hit a new low in barneyfied asshattery.

Are you "al Qaeda Gadahn" s... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Are you "al Qaeda Gadahn" saying that Ordienor and the Joint Chiefs are wrong? The Surge wont continue past April of next year. The NIE states that the Surge must continue for 12 to 18 months to allow for any chance for stability. April is only 8-months away (not 12 or 18). Therefore the NIE is saying that the surge is a failure!

"If the surge is succeeding... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"If the surge is succeeding, then we should redouble our efforts."

Hughs, the generals and the SoD have stated that a military solution is not the answer, and the Pentagon said that the troop withdrawal will begin in April so a "redoubling" is not possible, or are you not paying attention?

Are you "al Qaeda Gadah... (Below threshold)
marc:

Are you "al Qaeda Gadahn" saying that Ordienor and the Joint Chiefs are wrong?

why the misdirection barn? Got caught, not that it was hard, posting year old trash and had to divert attention?

marc, the "multi-month camp... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

marc, the "multi-month campaign" is the surge, or was that too nuanced for you?

Hughs, the generals and... (Below threshold)
marc:

Hughs, the generals and the SoD have stated that a military solution is not the answer,

Ah...no. They have said without a military solution a political solution is problematic. At best. BOTH have to occur.

But I don't expect you to understand that or even acknowledge the possibility

marc, the "multi-month ... (Below threshold)
marc:

marc, the "multi-month campaign" is the surge, or was that too nuanced for you?

Kerry does nuance not me. The announcement of the surge happened in Jan 2007.

But you try to pass off something from Sept '06 as if it were proof as something other than what it is garbage.

Baghdad Barney, you're prov... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Baghdad Barney, you're proving your nickname again.

Your press release is from 15 September 2006.

Both the American Enterprise Institute and the liberal website SFGate.com date the plan--note, just the plan, not the actual troops arriving in Iraq--to 5 January 2007.

Your press release is from over three months before the surge plan was unveiled. 3 months and 22 days, to be exact.

Baghdad Bob would be so proud of you. "There are no Americans in Baghdad!"

BaghdadBarney, I have only ... (Below threshold)

BaghdadBarney, I have only one question for you.

To what lengths will you go and to what depths will you stoop, in arguing for a United States defeat in Iraq?

Go ahead barn... call this ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Go ahead barn... call this Chaplin a liar, he's been there since the time of your Sept '06 "proof" and has seen things change since the surge began. And here is a later view.

But what the hell barn, what does he know, he's only a few thousand miles and few tons of MSM filters closer to the action than you are,... right?

Thanks marc, for saving me ... (Below threshold)

Thanks marc, for saving me the keystrokes.
____________________________________________

Trolls: Consider this.

Some think the military assets, personnel and infrastructure should remain in Iraq under U S control for the next fifty years, at a minimum. Why? Because that successful strategy protected our country for decades after WWII. A troop drawdown may be necessary, but hard assets, armor and weapons should remain. Force projection is what will protect the US and our allies in the region. Carrier battle groups are effective, but boots on the ground, next to amor and weapons is a proven deterrent.

Baghdad Bob would be so... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad Bob would be so proud of you. "There are no Americans in Baghdad!"

And there are no cognitive brain cells in Baghdad Barney.

John in VAI ha... (Below threshold)
marc:

John in VA

I have only one question for you.

I have one for barn as well...

How heavy is that ass that's been handed to you?

People like BaghdadBarney b... (Below threshold)

People like BaghdadBarney believe that even had we not been standing side by side with the Germans in the Fulda Gap, the USSR would still not have attacked. They think that US troops standing with the South Koreans in the DMZ have little deterrence on the will of the NoKors to attack.

The question of the doves is "fight, or not fight".

The question of the hawk is "fight now, or fight later".

But surely, we will fight eventually.

now this is interesting....... (Below threshold)
ke_future:

now this is interesting....

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2007/08/018285.php

if it works out, what will the anti-war argue next?

But, but, but...I thought t... (Below threshold)

But, but, but...I thought the Iraqi government was all vacationing on the Persian Gulf and not doin' any governin'.

You mean, they're like our Congress, even though they are "in recess", many of them are still working on things? Perish the thought.

That whole "the Iraqi Parliament is going on vacation for a whole month" thing was such a decoy. You know, sometimes you just have to take a break from thorny, contentious issues to gain some perspective and go at it again after everyone is cooler under the collar.

marc and hugh, I have shown... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

marc and hugh, I have shown you proof that at least a battalion of troops were pulled from Anbar prior to the surge. You have not shown any proof that a surge or troops were the result of Sunni tribes turning on al Qaeda.

Months ago I predicted that by removing "law" in al Qaeda controlled areas would result in the extermination of al Qaeda by Sunnis or Shiite militias.

None of you have disputed my central claim that the surge can not continue past April and the NIE states that 12 to 18 month of surge forces are needed for ANY hope of success.


You can't have both!

ke_futureI thought... (Below threshold)

ke_future

I thought they were on vacation....

"But, but, but...I thought ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"But, but, but...I thought the Iraqi government was all vacationing on the Persian Gulf and not doin' any governin'." jinca

No, some are on vacation, some are staying home and some are quitting. The end result is that the most fundamental "benchmark" by the Bush administration is shot to hell.

BAGHDAD, Aug. 24 -- Escalating a political crisis that has paralyzed the Iraqi government, three secular cabinet members will formally resign Saturday, according to a senior member of the group.

The Iraqi National List, an umbrella group of several political parties composed of secular Sunnis and Shiites, had boycotted cabinet meetings since Aug. 7 because of frustrations with what they saw as Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's divisive leadership style. The party, headed by former prime minister Ayad Allawi, will now submit the official resignations, National List member Iyad Jamal al-Deen said.

barneyGRUBBLEM... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyGRUBBLE

Months ago I predicted that by removing "law" in al Qaeda controlled areas would result in the extermination of al Qaeda by Sunnis or Shiite militias.

Again, where's the link to your prediction?

None of you have disputed my central claim that the surge can not continue past April and the NIE states that 12 to 18 month of surge forces are needed for ANY hope of success.

You haven't claimed anything but what I've read elsewhere 50 times in the last week. unless you wrote a portion of the NIE you ain't got a claim to anything.

Ahh, everything old is new ... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Ahh, everything old is new again to Baghdad Barney.

Perhaps his publik skool teecher never told him that there were threats of the resignation of several representatives to the Constitutional Convention right here in the United States of America.

Admittedly, they never resigned, but then again, they didn't have people trying to blow up their citizens with car bombs, nor a superpower's elected officials (apparently as ignorant of history as Baghdad Barney is) breathing down their necks.

Thus, the Iraqi Parliament is under far more pressure than the Constitutional Convention is, and can be expected to react slightly differently... i.e. actually resigning instead of just threatening it.

The end result is that ... (Below threshold)
marc:

The end result is that the most fundamental "benchmark" by the Bush administration is shot to hell. - Badhdad Barney


Iraq's leaders agree on key benchmarks - Sun Aug 26, 6:27 PM ET

Something got shot to hell, can you recognize what it was barn?

"But, but, but...I thought ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"But, but, but...I thought the Iraqi government was all vacationing on the Persian Gulf and not doin' any governin'." johnca

"I thought they were on vacation...."

61. Posted by HughS | August 26, 2007

God you guys are stupid! Can't you two read?

"The laws need to be passed by Iraq's fractious parliament, which has yet to receive any of the drafts."

Why? Because they are on vacation!!!!!

I'm going to lurch toward t... (Below threshold)

I'm going to lurch toward the obvious: does Barney know how to link?

Barney, if you don't there are, what, probably fifty here who will show you.

I for one have no geek fu, but I have never had a tech question unanswered on any site.

Barney, linking helps your argument.

That's the end of my public service announcement.

...publik skool te... (Below threshold)
...publik skool teecher never told him that there were threats of...

BaghdadBarney might be a public school teacher. Or is that nogo? I can't keep all the trolls straight.

Maybe BaghdadBarney is the one who will, if his home is entered by an armed intruder, take out the armed intruder in the dark with his knife. Failing that, he will either garrote or rip the heart out of the armed intruder.

Or is that nogo? Well, one of them has claimed to be a teacher, IIRC.

Which makes me very concerned about the well being of the kids who are forced into the government controlled school system.

OK Barney, mark this as the... (Below threshold)

OK Barney, mark this as the end of public service announcements.
Link your source you stupid asshole. Link ALL of them. Without a link, you are considered the prevaricating SOB you have shown yourself to be.
Dean Wormer had you figured out fast.

"The laws need to be passed... (Below threshold)

"The laws need to be passed by Iraq's fractious parliament, which has yet to receive any of the drafts."

Link that.

The daily Iraqi casu... (Below threshold)

The daily Iraqi casualty rate for 2007 is twice that of 2006 (source AP). The daily average of US causalities for Aug is higher than all but two months in 2006 (source Iraq Casualty Org.). The Iraqi government is near collapse, and looking to Syrian and Iran as props. THe Pentagon has said that troop withdrawals have to begin starting in the spring '08, yet the NIE said it will take a year to a year and one half of surge level troops to make a difference.

Link the whole farking term paper Einstein.

BaghdadBarney, Where is our... (Below threshold)

BaghdadBarney, Where is our Congress?

We still have a budget to be passed for FY2008.

Of course, if the democrat led House and Senate hadn't spent 100 days trying to legislate our defeat in Iraq, they may have been able to do that most basic of governmental functions - fund the operation of the government.

Or maybe if they hadn't renamed and named all those post offices...

My guess is if we measured our government in 18 vital areas, it would not get a satisfactory mark in 44% of them.

1) Securing Baghdad, ... (Below threshold)

1) Securing Baghdad, is temporary based on the NIE I referenced to above because the Iraqi security force is not capable of taking over for coalition forces and we can not extend the surge more than another six months.

2) The Sunni tribal retribution against al Qeada in Iraq is due to pulling US troops out and not surging troops into. I recommended this strategy several months ago.


Link?

barneyGRUBBLE"... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyGRUBBLE

"The laws need to be passed by Iraq's fractious parliament, which has yet to receive any of the drafts." Why? Because they are on vacation!!!!!

And so?!

But the picture the loonbats have been painting is the entire Iraqi gov ground to a halt. Obviously that's not so.

And BTW their "vacation" will be over shortly, end of next week I believe.

Meanwhile, the "vacationing" Iraqis are making progress:

Maliki's appearance on Iraqi television with the four other leaders at a brief news conference was a rare show of public unity.

The other officials present were President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd; Sunni Vice President Tareq al-Hashemi; Shi'ite Vice President Adel Abdul-Mahdi, and Masoud Barzani, president of the semi-autonomous Kurdistan region.

Iraqi officials said the five leaders had agreed on draft legislation that would ease curbs on former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath party joining the civil service and military.

Hmmm.... just how much progress have Pelosi & Co made since bailing out of D.C.?

For Baghdad Barney et al...... (Below threshold)
Paul:

For Baghdad Barney et al....

What are you guys going to do when we win this thing? ... From the sounds of it you'll be on suicide watch.

Such a moron: you provide a... (Below threshold)

Such a moron: you provide a source and no link. Proof positive you never wrote even so much as a high school term paper.

Here is your proof:

UPI Pentagon Correspondent
Washington (UPI) Sep 15, 2006
The general in charge of U.S. military forces in Iraq defended his decision to take a battalion of soldiers out of violent Anbar province and move them into Baghdad for what will be a multi-month campaign to bring the capital city under control.

Baghdad Barney - suffering ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad Barney - suffering the death of a thousand paper cuts.

Baghdad Barney, you're gett... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad Barney, you're getting old.... where's freedomFRIED when you need a fresh loonbat to kick around?

BTW, anyone notice freedomFRIED goes by the name "michael" over at Blue?

The autopsy showed the Blac... (Below threshold)
kim:

The autopsy showed the Black Knight's braincase full of sawdust.
====================================

Dean Vernon Wormer: ... (Below threshold)

Dean Vernon Wormer: Mr. Kroger: two C's, two D's and an F. That's a 1.2 grade average. Congratulations, Kroger. You're at the top of the Delta pledge class. Mr. Barney?

Barney: Hello!

Dean Vernon Wormer: Zero point two... Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

It's funny; I always misrem... (Below threshold)
kim:

It's funny; I always misremember that quote as "drunk, naked, and angry".
============================================

KimMrs. Wormer would... (Below threshold)

Kim
Mrs. Wormer would not argue the distinction.

"drunk, naked, and... (Below threshold)
"drunk, naked, and angry".

If you're drunk and naked, how can you be angry?

Hugh, you want to link to s... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Hugh, you want to link to something? How about this in response to your ignorance?

"The laws need to be passed by Iraq's fractious parliament, which has yet to receive any of the drafts."
Link that.
70. Posted by HughS | August 26, 2007 10:06 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

Right here:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2007/08/018285.php

ke_future provided the link that you commented on here:

"ke_future
I thought they were on vacation..."
61. Posted by HughS | August 26, 2007 9:33 PM | Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

So, obviously you do not read what you comment on. Talk about auto-response!

Or, you are just a lying sack o' crap that just spews venom because you are always wrong!

Based on my stinging respon... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Based on my stinging response to your ignorance (hugh, link to that)), what grade should marc, hugh and kim receive?

How about 0.0!

JohnIf you're ... (Below threshold)

John
If you're drunk and naked, how can you be angry?

Not going to go there.

But I am tired of ignorant asses like Barney and Jim. A good question might be, why don't other trolls keep them from walking straight into traffic? The answer is probably in Paul's thread above.

That's one link down Barney... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

That's one link down Barney. How about the rest?

Or is that enough for you to feel like you can scamper off?

That's one link down Barney... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

That's one link down Barney. How about the rest?

Or is that enough for you to feel like you can scamper off?

87. Posted by SCSIwuzzy | August 26, 2007 11:21 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

Is this good enough?

US Death rate here:
http://icasualties.org/oif/

Death rate Iraqis here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070825/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_counting_the_dead

April deadline here:
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=4023

Troops pulled here:
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Anbar_Troops_Moved_To_Baghdad_999.html


Sunnis fighting al Qaeda here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/06/world/middleeast/06military.html?ex=1341374400&en=26aa5df222166288&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

No blow it out your arse while I go and walk the dog!

I wonder if Barney's realiz... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

I wonder if Barney's realized that he proved that he knows how to link.

Here's your grade barney...... (Below threshold)

Here's your grade barney....BTW, since you doubled down, you have to repeat the whole year. Google cache just sucks doesn't it?
______________________________________________

Got to double down on ss with the two month vacation by the Iraqi government. I hope they enjoy there holiday in Iran.
ragshaft, nice goals there but bush never stated those as his definitions for victory. Last month he said he was fine with a certain level of violence, or yesterday, the Iraqi's have to just ask us to leave.
It looks like the cowboy is looking to turn tail.
13. Posted by BarneyG2000 | May 25, 2007 9:01 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

Square that with this:


_______________________________________________

Hugh, you want to link to something? How about this in response to your ignorance?

"The laws need to be passed by Iraq's fractious parliament, which has yet to receive any of the drafts."
Link that.
70. Posted by HughS | August 26, 2007 10:06 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

Right here:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2007/08/018285.php

ke_future provided the link that you commented on here:

"ke_future
I thought they were on vacation..."
61. Posted by HughS | August 26, 2007 9:33 PM | Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

So, obviously you do not read what you comment on. Talk about auto-response!

Or, you are just a lying sack o' crap that just spews venom because you are always wrong!


84. Posted by BarneyG2000 | August 26, 2007 11:05 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

NO, I read what you comment on...and google records it. Let's make this simple: you claimed on May 25,2007 a two month vacation while the Iraqi government vacationed in Iran and then you link, only weeks later, to a Powerline blog that refutes your own May 25 statement.

Wormer was right barney2000...

C-C-G,Just not very ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

C-C-G,
Just not very well. LOL
Embedding must be in the next chapter of Blogging for Dummies.

I am more afraid that he's answered John (83).

"Daniel Simpson Day (ccg).... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"Daniel Simpson Day (ccg)... HAS no grade point average. All courses incomplete."

Baghdad Barney, that's beca... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Baghdad Barney, that's because I refuse to attend any school that would hire you as an instructor... or indeed, any faculty.

Betcha wish you'd thought of that line earlier. -LOL-

Hugh, what is your point? ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Hugh, what is your point? Are you trying to tell us your earlier comment about linking references was in response to something I wrote back in May?

Besides, my comment was in directly response to your comment regarding the powerline story posted by ke.

You challenged me and I responded with not one but may links that you disputed even existed, so now go find us some links that say we can continue the surge after April 2008? Find us some links that say the Iraqi parliament has passed any meaningful resolutions. Show me the links that state that the average US and Iraqi death rates are lower than 2006. Show me the links that say the Iraqi quality of life has improved (water, sewage, electricity).

Show me the link where they greeted us with chocolates and flowers?

Now that I have proven my point, once again as usual, I can lay my head to rest knowing that I am right and you are wrong!

"proven my point, once agai... (Below threshold)
yo:

"proven my point, once again as usual,"

I read that and giggled. And then I read:

"chocolates and flowers"

and all I can think is:

mmmmmmm ... chocolate.

Show me the links ... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:
Show me the links that say the Iraqi quality of life has improved (water, sewage, electricity).

Certainly. Here you go, straight from one of the soldiers on the ground there.

Want more? Here you go.

An excerpt from the second:

Eric Whitaker U.S. Embassy in Iraq July 23, 2007

Of course we look at the local level and we're looking at are hospitals and schools being rebuilt? Yes. Are sewer and water systems being re-established? Yes... Are we training people? Yes. Are they increasingly taking governance and economic development into their own hands? Yes. Are they taking loans and business skills training are they reinvesting themselves into the local economy, yes.


(emphasis in original)

So go to sleep knowing you've been proven to be wrong. Again.

Oh - here's your flower, BG... (Below threshold)
yo:
barneyGRUBBLE (Buffoonery ... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyGRUBBLE (Buffoonery phd)

Troops pulled here:

Again... the link is from Sept 2006 just a different source and 4 months before the surge was even announced as a new strategy.

And the stupidity continues with the following link "Sunnis fighting al Qaeda here:"

Funny way to prove the pulling of troops in Sept has aided the Sunnis in fighting al Qaeda when the title of your link says they're still there and it has improved the situation: "G.I.'s Forge Sunni Tie in Bid to Squeeze Militants" and includes this snippet:

The April 7 meeting was the beginning of a new alliance and, American commanders hope, a portent of what is to come in the bitterly contested Diyala Province.

Using his Iraqi partners to pick out the insurgents and uncover the bombs they had seeded along the cratered roads, Captain Richards's soldiers soon apprehended more than 100 militants, including several low-level emirs. The Iraqis called themselves the Local Committee; Captain Richards dubbed them the Kit Carson scouts.I apologize barn your phd isn't in buffoonery.

You obviously hold a doctorate in cognitive dissonance.

Baghdad Barney is a shining... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

Baghdad Barney is a shining example of Reagan's wisdom:

[T]he trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.
barneyGRUBBLE:... (Below threshold)
marc:

barneyGRUBBLE:

so now go find us some links that say we can continue the surge after April 2008? Find us some links that say the Iraqi parliament has passed any meaningful resolutions.

Why no one in the thread has made anything close to those statements except you.

Show me the links that state that the average US and Iraqi death rates are lower than 2006

OK

The Iraq economy, improved over 2006. "The IMF estimated that Iraq's gross domestic product growth would reach 6.3 percent in 2007, slightly up from 6.2 percent in 2006."

Gosh! How can that be?!

As a "fish" barney how is it living in a barrel, inquiring minds what to know?

"Strange," barneyGRUBBLE wh... (Below threshold)
marc:

"Strange," barneyGRUBBLE why is it in a "war torn" security ravaged country the inflation rate has gone down as of Aug 02, 2007?

And the Iraqi dinar has increased in value?

A new generation of 14 business development trainers earned their certification during the Vision Forward Strategic Seminar for Iraqi Small Business Development Centers organized in Erbil by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID)-funded Izdihar project.

Must be all some kinda lie right barney?

Bet you thought Karl Rove REALLY was out of a job! Rovian mind rays are a bit*h, even on the Iraq economy!

I shouldn't get the same gr... (Below threshold)
kim:

I shouldn't get the same grade as marc and Hugh; I just audited.
===================

Wow, those were some pretty... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Wow, those were some pretty good comebacks. I got one soldier receiving a flower? I think about 2,000 have been greeted by IEDs. You got the view of two soldiers that say everything is going great in Iraq? We got marc trying to debunk my claim that Iraqi deaths have doubled over 2006 (daily average) by providing a line chart that ends in Jan., 2007? Marc, if the economy is doing so well (Iraq) why don't they pay for their own reconstruction and protection?

I know of another business that is doing real well in Iraq, and that is the black market sales of US supplied arms. Did you know that a 15-year old boy in Turkey brought a US supplied Glock 9-MM and used to kill a catholic priest? Maybe Petraeus would like to explain how gave away 190,000 assault rifles and hand guns without any accounting?

You seem a trifle defensive... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

You seem a trifle defensive this morning, Baghdad Barney. Perhaps because you got your a$$ handed to you for, what, the third or fourth time in this thread?

Let me give you some honest advice about discussions and debates.

Before asking a question, know the answer if you can. As an example, you easily could have found that quote from the embassy official that I used; you just didn't bother to, and that led to your embarrassment.

Never assume that what ABCCBSCNNNBCNPRPBS tells you is the whole story. Doing that leads to the issue I addressed above.

Always assume that your opponent is at least as intelligent as you, will see what you are trying to do, and will take steps to stop you. Doing that will also help keep you from digging yourself into a hole like you did here.

Finally, if and when you are proven wrong (and it happens to all of us), be a man and stand up and admit it.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Marc, if the economy is doing so well (Iraq) why don't they pay for their own reconstruction and protection?

No one claimed the Iraq economy was doing "so well."

What the links do demonstrate is in a county going thru what it is now that it's growing and in some segments growing very fast.

Don't think so... then do just a bit of research before opening your ignorant mouth.

But idotic diniers like you and others will discount any progress in any segment of their economy or social advances because it doesn't fit your agenda of "Bush Bad."

I hear crickets.Ba... (Below threshold)
C-C-G Author Profile Page:

I hear crickets.

Baghdad Barney has apparently left the thread.




Advertisements









rightads.gif

beltwaybloggers.gif

insiderslogo.jpg

mba_blue.gif

Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile

Contact

Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links

Credits

Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login



Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy