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Osama bin Laden Wants His Own Diary at Kos

The new OBL tape is out... He's feeling kinda down spending all his time in a cave talking to himself so he decided to use his tape to audition for Daily Kos...

He's got potential... he hits all the nutroots talking points.

New OBL Tape: Iraq, Democratic Control

September 07, 2007 2:15 PM

ABC News' Jonathan Karl Reports: ABC News has obtained a transcript of the latest taped message from Osama bin Laden. ...

According to the transcript, ...

He says to the American people, "you made one of your greatest mistakes, in that you neither brought to account nor punished those who waged this war, not even the most violent of its murderers, [former Defense Secretary Donald] Rumsfeld..."

"You permitted Bush to complete his first term, and stranger still, chose him for a second term, which gave him a clear mandate from you -- with your full knowledge and consent -- to continue to murder our people in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then you claim to be innocent! The innocence of yours is like my innocence of the blood of your sons on the 11th -- were I to claim such a thing."

Bin Laden says President Bush's words echo "neoconservatives like Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Richard Perle."

"People of America: the world is following your news in regards to your invasion of Iraq, for people have recently come to know that, after several years of tragedies of this war, the vast majority of you want it stopped. Thus, you elected the Democratic Party for this purpose, but the Democrats haven't made a move worth mentioning. On the contrary, they continue to agree to the spending of tens of billions to continue the killing and war there."

And for those of you on the left who bristle when we say many of you all are doing Osama's bidding... I have some bad news...

The transcript indicates that bin Laden refers to statements from U.S. soldiers in Iraq, from an interview taped by a British journalist. Portions of the interview aired in a July report on ABC News.

"It would benefit you to listen to the poignant messages of your soldiers in Iraq, who are paying -- with their blood, nerves and scattered limbs -- the price for these sorts of irresponsible statements," the transcript says.

"Among them is the eloquent message of Joshua which he sent by way of the media, in which he wipes the tears from his eyes and describes American politicians in harsh terms and invites them to join him there for a few days," the statement continues.

But he does get one thing almost right...

According to the transcript, bin Laden says there are two ways to end the war:

"The first is from our side, and it is to continue to escalate the killing and fighting against you."

The second is to do away with the American democratic system of government. "It has now become clear to you and the entire world the impotence of the democratic system and how it plays with the interests of the peoples and their blood by sacrificing soldiers and populations to achieve the interests of the major corporations."

That's a reality the Dems want to ignore... but the third option is that we kill them. All of them.

And OBL even gives a shout out to Noam and Al Gore... lol

He goes on to call Noam Chomsky "among one of the most capable of those from your own side," and mentions global warming and "the Kyoto accord."

I'm telling you he could start writing at Kos tomorrow and his diary would be highly recommended. That says volumes huh?

update, the video is back


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Comments (129)

Wow, the left is this count... (Below threshold)

Wow, the left is this country is not just agreeing with the other side . . .

They are the other side.

They need to come out of th... (Below threshold)
BrandonInBatonRouge:

They need to come out of the closet with their dhimmiture...

At least it would mean Boxer and Pelosi each under a hijab.

That should be *dhimmitude*... (Below threshold)
BrandonInBatonRouge:

That should be *dhimmitude*, not *dhimmiture*.

Can't wait to hear the comm... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Can't wait to hear the comments from the resident trolls...

Do you mean that Osama's li... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Do you mean that Osama's little speech wasn't written by KOS and the DNC? He got in all of their talking points.

>Can't wait to hear the com... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>Can't wait to hear the comments from the resident trolls...

They're busy writing a post on Blue using this as proof Bush has failed at "International Relations."

>Do you mean that Osama's l... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>Do you mean that Osama's little speech wasn't written by KOS and the DNC? He got in all of their talking points.

heh- It could be a Democrat stump speech. OBL could run for the Senate as a democrat in Vermont and win.

Babble2000, you're not the ... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Babble2000, you're not the least bit troubled that Osama could replace you in the comments section here and none of us would notice... That doesn't bother you?

If only we didn't have to b... (Below threshold)
Master Shake:

If only we didn't have to be reminded every day that BarneyG2000 was alive and deranged....

Howard Dean, Dick Durbin, T... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

Howard Dean, Dick Durbin, Tim Robbins, alGore, and Nancy Pelosi (just to name few) could EASILY have given that speech...EASILY!!

Also from the tape:<p... (Below threshold)
marc:

Also from the tape:

"the greatest mistake one can make in this world and one which is uncorrectable is to die while not surrendering to Allah".

Wonder how Edwards would fit that on a bumper sticker?

OBL also recommends people read books by Noam Chomsky and Michael Scheuer.

The Chomsky ref is obvious but not many would realize why Scheuer is ref'd, after all he's the former CIA agent all the networks,including Fox, have fallen in love with as "an expert" on OBL and terrorism in general.

Well, as "Anonymous" he wrote the book Imperial Hubris. He and OBL have one of those distant love affairs so many have.

Scheuer is THE master at the moral equivalence type of argument and makes many refs that terrorists are just "freedom fighters," whose needs must be understood.

For example:

"The strength of his personality and message is likely to lead to an enduring legacy that will long survice his own departure from the scene (xvii)."

[B]in Laden's philosophy and action have embodied many of the same sentiments that permeate the underpinnings of concepts on which the United States itself is established.

Osama bin Laden appears to be a geniunely pious Muslim; a devoted family man; a talented, focused, and patient insurgent commander; a frank and eloquent speaker; a successful businessman; and an individual of conviction, intellectual honestly, compassion, humility, and physical bravery (3).

[B]in Laden's character, religious certainty, moral absolutism, military ferocity, integrity, and all-or-nothing goals are not much different from those of individuals whom we in the United States have long identified and honored as religious, political, or military heroes, men such as John Brown, John Bunyan, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, and Thomas Paine (5).

Any questions why Scheuer is one of OBL's "favorite authors" now?


The entire OBL transcript is available here in PDF form.

nothing he said proves that... (Below threshold)
thecomputerguy:

nothing he said proves that the tape is any newer than 2004, is it?

Isn't this all about proving that he's winning by "still being alive" - why would he not mention something that happened recently, and remove all doubt...

Good thing Bush doesn't ... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Good thing Bush doesn't think much about Osama anymore -Barney

Given how much he sounds like you and your ilk, is this surprising. Lord knows I don't think much of you anymore.

As for the 9/11 families, I am sure they don't feel nearly as annoyed as they do with the "little eichman" crowd counted among your fellow travellers.

6 years after 9/11 ...why ... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

6 years after 9/11 ...why are we even discussing this person?
almost six years after terrorists attacked us with
hijacked planes and anthrax...
We can invade 2 countries...
We can have...in Iraq alone 3740 troops dead there...over 30,000 sustaining wounds way too many serious and returning to a still dysfunctional V.A.
...and we cannot arrest or kill either...
The failure of the Bush administration to accomplish either...is not the fault of the Dems and for sure not the fault of Kos.....

so you all keep up with pointing the finger at everyone other then the person responsible for the two greatest failures of this new century..

of course..maybe we are just too feeble to accomplish either one of these tasks...
perhaps this feebleness can be blamed on the liberals and Kos...

Forget about a plan to stabilize Iraq...
How about a plan to take out bin-Laden ....and find the anthrax killer?

>nothing he said proves tha... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>nothing he said proves that the tape is any newer than 2004, is it?

oh yes, I clipped that, sorry, he mentions the election in France and the anniversary of Hiroshima. It was recorded in mid Aug. if I recall, follow the link dude, it's free.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Good thing Bush doesn't think much about Osama anymore. If he did maybe we wouldn't have to be reminded every year that piece of shit is alive and well.

Good thing Bush hasn't lived up to the "unilaterist six-gun totin' cowboy" image you and your ilk wanted to portray him as. Instead he worked with the EU and NATO and together they continue to take the fight to OBL, talaban remnants and other of like minds in Afghanistan.

I'm sure the widows of 9-11 find your comments funny.

Pretty damn presumptuous of you to claim you know what 9/11 widows think isn't it?

Or do you have the powers of Kreskin, Max Maven and Chan Canasta?

Or just a blustering idiot?

hey marc, good catch<... (Below threshold)
Paul:

hey marc, good catch

============

nogo war, you're not the least bit troubled that Osama could replace you in the comments section here and none of us would notice... That doesn't bother you?

Babble, please answer my qu... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Babble, please answer my question.

Much of this could have bee... (Below threshold)

Much of this could have been avoided had Clinton taken him out in the 90s. It would have at least blunted the jihadist movement. Now we're in a very serious asymmetrical war with no evident horizon.

The real irony is that many Americans--primarily on the left, of course--either minimize or ignore the evidence, all for political purchase. Which is why they are in denial about the obvious progress being made due to the counter-insurgency initiative in Iraq.

It's despicable to see Sen. Schumer excoriate our soldiers and Marines as he did on the senate floor on Wednesday. His adroit revision of his remarks only confirms how thoroughly invested he is in defeat.

OBL will one day be taken down, but even that won't stop the radical Islamists who are now active in 70 countries--including, of course, the U.S.

Phil Mella
ClearCommentary.com

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

That was back in May and Bush still sits on his hands. Keep laughing it up.

Then perhaps you could supply specific targeting info so Bush could sit on his hands longer.

Blah blah blah...sure is a ... (Below threshold)
jim:

Blah blah blah...sure is a good thing the US invaded Iraq, rather than get this piece of crap and take out his organization when we had the chance.

jim, you're not the least b... (Below threshold)
Paul:

jim, you're not the least bit troubled that Osama could replace you in the comments section here and none of us would notice... That doesn't bother you?

I couldn't concentrate on t... (Below threshold)
Bill Clinton:

I couldn't concentrate on taking out Bin Laden. I was too busy taking something else out...in the Oval Office. *wink*

Bush has had 6 years to cap... (Below threshold)
Charles Giacometti:

Bush has had 6 years to capture this two-bit punk and he has failed to, and somehow this is bad news for the left? You people are one part mentally ill and two parts stupid.

jim, you're not the lea... (Below threshold)
marc:

jim, you're not the least bit troubled that Osama could replace you in the comments section here and none of us would notice... That doesn't bother you?

He's not bothered by the fact he and Baghdad barney can't offer a viable solution either.

A solution that doesn't lead to the fall of Pakistan's Pres that would have the potential of letting it become just as bad as Afghanistan ever was. (and a country btw that wasn't an ally of any sort under clinton).

Paul...what bothers ... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

Paul...
what bothers me...are all these videos from someone we should have killed years ago...
What bothers me is we cannot find, arrest, convict the anthrax killer...
These failures expose us to more attacks...
after all...if we cannot kill or arrest those responsible for what happened back in 2001...
where is the deterrent for those who may attack us in the future...

I am waiting for anyone here to offer a legitimate excuse why the most powerful nation in the world cannot stop the person directly responsible for 9/11 from posting videos taunting us for our FAILURE to stop him?

His posting cannot be blamed on anyone other than our commander-in-chief...and HIS failure to protect us....

Charles Giacometti:<p... (Below threshold)
marc:

Charles Giacometti:

Bush has had 6 years to capture this two-bit punk and he has failed to, and somehow this is bad news for the left? You people are one part mentally ill and two parts stupid.

How long did it take to catch Theodore Kaczynski?

Do YOU have a solution? Or just cheap partisan tripe?

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

How should we expect Bush to find Osama when he doesn't know the difference between APEC and OPEC and Austria and Australia?

And I'd bet a few bucks you hadn't clue #1 what APEC was until you read about Bush mis-speaking the acronym.

And your solution to getting OBL is what?

"What bothers me is we cann... (Below threshold)
yo:

"What bothers me is we cannot find, arrest, convict the anthrax killer.."

You must wet your bed, nightly, wondering about the Lindbergh kidnapper, too. What in the HELL does the anthrax killer have to do with anything?

"if we cannot kill or arrest those responsible for what happened back in 2001... where is the deterrent for those who may attack us in the future..."

And it took us 3 years to get Hitler, and we knew where he was. Please.

The deterrent? You don't deter fucks like these, champ. You prevent them from striking the homeland again. You might have a point here if it weren't for all of the attacks we've had on American soil since 2001 ... oh wait.

You don't have a point.

"His posting cannot be blamed on anyone other than our commander-in-chief...and HIS failure to protect us..."

C-in-C ..? You mean Clinton, who had more than one opportunity to prevent 9/11, entirely?

Or do you mean Carter, who while not starting this shit, didn't help end it, when he could have.

Or do you mean Bush who, while not capturing Bin Laden has sent a fuck-load of jihadi bastards to the pits of Hades?

I guess the Democrat turn-coat fucks aren't responsible for this at all, huh? Bending fuck over themselves backwards to chop away at Bush to secure their fat, corrupt asses in their Congressional seats by feeding bullshit to idiots like you, who buy their tripe.

Can I sell you a bridge?

Whatever, dude .. you're such a douche I'm surprised your posts aren't sponsored by Massengil.

And for the record, and aga... (Below threshold)
marc:

And for the record, and against all common and military sense, my solution is to give the Dems and OBL exactly what they/he wants.

A complete and immediate pull-out of all U.S. troops from Iraq to be redeployed to Afghanistan.

To be quickly followed by a victory dance by OBL and a restatement of his previous missive when he called the U.S. a "Paper Tiger."

Also following would be calls to "end the Afghanistan occupation" by all the usual suspects.

Oh... and one last thing to conform with OBL's wishes:

The U.S. and most if not all of the West would "surrender to Allah."

"nogo war, you're not the l... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"nogo war, you're not the least bit troubled that Osama could replace you in the comments section here and none of us would notice... That doesn't bother you?" -- Paul

So, according to simpleton conservative logic, If Osama is for it, one needs to be against it, and if Osama is against it, one needs to be for it.

Thus, reflecting their lack of education the conservatives like Paul argue:

Osama is against global warming; we need to be for global warming.

Osama claims he wants U.S. troops out of Iraq; we need to show how much we love the troops by keeping them in harm's way where they get killed and maimed,

Osama finds it strange that Americans elected Bush in 2004; we need to elect someone just as shortsighted in 2008.

Trouble is, conservatives, Osama's newest video revealed that he also favors the low tax rate of 2.5 percent found under Islamic law.

So that means that henceforth you'll be favoring high tax rates, right, conservatives?

Bush 9/14/01:"I c... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Bush 9/14/01:
"I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon," Bush answered."

I guess Bush has a different concept of time than most of us.

WTF is that supposed to mean? As if capturing/killing OBL/Zawahiri, etc. would be the end game, or that all started and ends with their death/capture.

Anybody who thinks THAT has their head firmly planted up their ass.

"I can hear you. The rest o... (Below threshold)
yo:

"I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon," Bush answered."

I guess Bush has a different concept of time than most of us."


WHAT?! You've officially gone from barking moonbat to ranting idiot. What the hell did that post mean?

Say what you will about Bush, and I know that you will, but I find it hard to believe that no one's heard us.

Douche II: Moronic Boog-a-loo

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Actually I did know, but I'm not the President of the United States! Keep defending this boob that embarrasses all of us.

And to think an obvious mis-statement by Bush is proof he didn't know what APEC is is delusional BS on your part.

But... maybe your right. Maybe all the other APEC summits he attended just didn't impress upon him the fact OPEC and APEC aren't the same thing.

You are BDS personified.

Insert Kerry's botched joke here____________ .

How long did it take to ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

How long did it take to catch Theodore Kaczynski?

Was the entire US military going after him?

Idiot.

Herman, under Shari'a law, ... (Below threshold)
yo:

Herman, under Shari'a law, the tax is more like 20% .. if you're a muslim. If you're not, that tax goes up quite a bit.

As for the differences you are obviously ignorant to:

1 - OBL wants us out of Iraq so he can further his dream of a caliphate. The Dems want us out because it's a handy tool with which to bludgeon the President. If they wanted us out so damned bad, they never should have voted to put us there.

And, sure ... Osama's against global warming - because ... hold on, let this one sink in HE'S GOADING US.

Wow, the volume of pure stupid that's infected this post has gone off the damned charts.

"Was the entire US military... (Below threshold)
yo:

"Was the entire US military going after him?"

Was he hiding in a mountainous, damn near impassable region which straddles two international borders (one of which governed by a very weak ally); sunk into a complicated cave system; hiding amongst civilians?

No? I didn't think so.

NEXT!

Brian, the entire military ... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Brian, the entire military is going after Bin Laden? The ENTIRE military? They're all in Pakistan/Afghanistan right now? Really??!!!

Looks like YOU'RE the idiot.

Bwahahahahahaha....

Ask Michael Scheuer, head o... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Ask Michael Scheuer, head of the Bin Laden unit under Clinton (and no fan of Bush) who failed to get Bin Laden when he had many chances...

BILLY BOY CLINTON.

Ouch.

No? I didn't think so.</... (Below threshold)
Brian:

No? I didn't think so.

Hey, I'm not the one who made the comparison between OBL and Kaczynski. Thank your resident genius marc for that doozy.

"Hey, I'm not the one who m... (Below threshold)
yo:

"Hey, I'm not the one who made the comparison between OBL and Kaczynski."

Noted. Regardless, anyone doing any sort of comparisons like that just need to be smacked.

Hi, Sock Puppet Jo! I'm so ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Hi, Sock Puppet Jo! I'm so glad you're talking to me again. Of course, one of your sock puppets could have been talking to me all along.

Brian, the entire military is going after Bin Laden?

I said "was", not "is". Perhaps you can train one of your sock puppets to read to you.

They're all in Pakistan/Afghanistan right now?

No they're not, they're mostly mired down in Iraq. But OBL apparently managed to settle down there just fine, making videos and toasting marshmallows. You're too stupid to realize when you're making a point for the "other side", aren't you?

The way to get UBL is to wi... (Below threshold)
bill-tb:

The way to get UBL is to wiretap Harry Ried's office, they are obviously conferring on talking points.

Brian:Was the ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Brian:

Was the entire US military going after him?
Idiot.

Never said they were. However the FBI and other agencies did have units dedicated to finding him.

As far as anyone's idiocy is concerned, your's is well documented.

So, Barney .. in your world... (Below threshold)
yo:

So, Barney .. in your world of butterscotch rainbows and candy dew-drops, would taking out Bin Laden have stopped AQ?

So, according to s... (Below threshold)
So, according to simpleton conservative logic, If Osama is for it, one needs to be against it, and if Osama is against it, one needs to be for it.

Wow, Herman, score one for the home team.

It's great to finally see a liberal grasp the truth of the most basic 'simpleton' conservative logic.

Didn't know you guys had it in you.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Peter, do you really believe that crap? I guess we should just stop arresting anyone that commits a crime because crime still exists.

"Nice" how you conflate a statement meant to imply the relative unimportance of killing OBL into someone believing we shouldn't try.

Again, where DO you get these wonderful powers you have to guess what others are thinking?

Barney, I don't think anyon... (Below threshold)
yo:

Barney, I don't think anyone needs, or wants, to defend Bush's "eloquence." And, for the most part, who gives a flying fuck? It's not like he's ever spoke good, is it?

Fine, feel free to beat up on the retarded kid ... big man.

Maybe Bush isn't Mr. Orator, but at least he's not boning ugly chicks in a state trooper's car, or giving away entire countries to "men of religion."

Now, if you could only think for yourself rather than regurgitate tired talking points, you might be on to something.

I am waiting fo... (Below threshold)
Eric:

I am waiting for anyone here to offer a legitimate excuse why the most powerful nation in the world cannot stop the person directly responsible for 9/11 from posting videos taunting us for our FAILURE to stop him?

Because the most powerful nation in the world is not the imperialist bully that everyone, including many of it's own citizens make it out to be. Basically, taking out Osama is not a simple task. For simpletons like Nogo War it is but the realities are much more nuanced.

Most intelligence services believe he is in the border region of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

1) This is very difficult terrain that is mountainous and littered with caves and no roads. Read Sun Tzu on the use of Terrain in warfare.

2) It is populated by people very friendly to Osama and not at all friendly with us. So we have little local support to work with. Also, it is a very clannish society so everybody knows everybody else. Anybody we put in there stands out like a sore thumb. Again read Sun Tzu and Moral Law.

3) The President of Pakistan is weak politically. Any large scale deployment into Pakistan by the U.S. would likely topple his government. So he has asked us not to do so. If we didn't honor that request we would be invading a sovereign nation. Isn't that supposed to be a bad thing?

4) Pakistan has nukes. If Musharraf's government falls it will probably fall into the hands of people sympathetic to Osama. Which means that if we invade Pakistan the result could be that we end up giving Osama nukes. Is the reward of capturing Osama worth the risk of giving him nukes instead?

Paul and Marc, aren't you t... (Below threshold)
jim:

Paul and Marc, aren't you the least bit bothered that the President you voted for, would rather invaded a country that's no current threat to us, rather than actually catch someone who murdered 3,000 innocent American civilians?

Doesn't it bother you in the slightest, just the tiniest little bit?

Don't you at all think that it would be good if someone caught Osama and brought him to justice?

That bothers me much more than Osama's latest videotape, where he's apparently playing your emotions like a violin.

Defend that marc?<... (Below threshold)
marc:

Defend that marc?

OK... so what! That's my "defense."

Which should be your reaction but it's beyond your mental capacity to get past the childish BS.

Show me a politician, or anyone for that matter, who doesn't mis-speak.

The fact you're so fixated on the subject says more about you than you probably suspect.

"So yo, you also believe it... (Below threshold)
yo:

"So yo, you also believe it is a waste of time to arrest or kill, during the act of arresting, persons that convict crimes because those actions will have no affect on future crimes?"

... what the fuck are you talking about?

I'd asked you if removing OBL would have stopped AQ, you come back with some moronic hypothetical?

Just answer the damned question.

Basically, taking ... (Below threshold)
jim:
Basically, taking out Osama is not a simple task.

Fact-check time, Eric: Bush **had** Osama holed up in Afghanistan caves, and Bush decided to outsource it to some locals rather than finish the job.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8853000/site/newsweek

So however difficult it is to corner him and catch him, our soldiers DID it - and Bush decided not to follow through and do it right.

Don't you think that's bad? Don't you think that was a big mistake?

Posted by jim | September 7... (Below threshold)
yo:

Posted by jim | September 7, 2007 8:01 PM

... talk about having no grasp of the situation.

Sheesh .. where do they grow you guys?

"bringing to justice the gr... (Below threshold)
yo:

"bringing to justice the greatest mass murderer in US history is a waste of time."

Lower the dose, or raise it, man. You know that's not what I said, but since you know I'm going to eat your lunch on whatever answer you give, you pull an old, worthless liberal debating trick and think that it'll stick.

You're lame, man. Very, very lame.

Interesting concept, Jo.</p... (Below threshold)
jim:

Interesting concept, Jo.

So, Clinton is to blame for not catching Bin Laden BEFORE Bin Laden 9/11...but Bush is NOT to blame for not catching Bin Laden when he was holed up in Tora Bora, AFTER 9/11.

Oh, and after we had invaded an entire country to GET Bin Laden.

How's that work?

Posted by BarneyG2000 | Sep... (Below threshold)
yo:

Posted by BarneyG2000 | September 7, 2007 8:07 PM

pssst .. no one cares about this.

Yo, I have to say that does... (Below threshold)
jim:

Yo, I have to say that doesn't exactly count as a rebuttal.

You mean my response to Bar... (Below threshold)
yo:

You mean my response to Barney's subject-shifting-non-answer? How can you rebut what's not presented?

No, I'm talking about what ... (Below threshold)
jim:

No, I'm talking about what appears to be your response to me, #63 -

Posted by jim | September 7, 2007 8:01 PM

... talk about having no grasp of the situation.

Sheesh .. where do they grow you guys?

BarneyPaul and... (Below threshold)

Barney
Paul and Marc, aren't you the least bit bothered that the President you voted for, would rather invaded a country that's no current threat to us, rather than actually catch someone who murdered 3,000 innocent American civilians?

We're not bass fishing here Barney!

Catching or killing UBL would have some value, but destroying his means of attack, both millitarily and financially, is much more important.

Jim:Fact-check... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

Fact-check time, Eric: Bush **had** Osama holed up in Afghanistan caves, and Bush decided to outsource it to some locals rather than finish the job.

Do you have a file on hand that you pull your talking points from, in this case the term "outsource."

Comeon, it's been used ad infinitum by all the anti-war, anti-bush types forever.

The reality of this "outsourcing" is Bush and his military advisers turned the job over to those who could best accomplish the job in an area that THEY knew best, in a country that has never been successfully occupied by any other military force in its history.

You know Jim, a strategy that ultimated failed, but is the opposite of a more than likely phrase contained in you Talking Point Bag-O-Tricks: "Bush is a unilateralist cowboy."

Oh:Well, there was... (Below threshold)
yo:

Oh:

Well, there wasn't much to rebut. Sure it bothers EVERYone that Bin Laden's still running amok, but you framed it so poorly - that was my point.

The president WE voted for invaded a country ...blah blah .. with the bi-partisan authorization of Congress.

You can't hang this all on one man. Try as you might.

Paul & all the other Wizsap... (Below threshold)
FreedomFries:

Paul & all the other Wizsap commenters: you & the vile stupidm Republicans & the neocons are doing Bin Laden's will. You create the fertile ground for advanced terrorist recruitment w/ yopur no-win war.

marcGood luck fact c... (Below threshold)

marc
Good luck fact checking Jim...his memory erases and reboots every thirty seconds.

FrenchFryYou're just... (Below threshold)

FrenchFry
You're just a regular Churchill. Thanks for the wisdom. We will pray about it tomorrow at the Caliphate rally.

Barney,
I don't read USNWR....but thanks for the link. Congratulations.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

So yo, you also believe it is a waste of time to arrest or kill, during the act of arresting, persons that convict crimes because those actions will have no affect on future crimes? Republican logic is mind boggling.

Somebodies logic is mind boggling, the more clear-headed among us know who it is.

However, did Yo say it was a waste of time? No I believe he was making the point it wasn't important in the overall war on terror. That his death won't stop the fanatics that have taken over a portion of an otherwise peaceful religion.

And your lack of logic s patently obvious when you try to make a comparison in citing arresting criminals.

No one advocates that, it continues, yet crimes still happen don't they?

Just as the death of OBL won't stop the jihadist-cut-throats from continuing the fight to convert "non-believers" to their warped form of Islam.

freedomFRIED:P... (Below threshold)
marc:

freedomFRIED:

Paul & all the other Wizsap commenters: you & the vile stupidm Republicans & the neocons are doing Bin Laden's will. You create the fertile ground for advanced terrorist recruitment w/ yopur no-win war.

Well then... when all us "Wizsap commenters: you & the vile stupidm Republicans & the neocons" lose the "no-win war" on Islamofacism you can operate under the tenets of OBL's vision and bow down to Allah. And circumsize any and all daughters you may have now or in the future.

It couldn't happen to a "nicer" fella.

BTW, isn't "yopur" an East Indian term?

Nor the NIE apparentl... (Below threshold)

Nor the NIE apparently....oh, the irony in that comment.

BTW, who/which agencies write the NIE? I didn't know Mort Man was in the loop...but ya never know, huh, barney?

"Way to support the troops ... (Below threshold)
yo:

"Way to support the troops marc. Tell that to the 10th Mountain DIvision."

The 10th MTN would agree with marc. And, your comment of supporting the troops is trite. What better way to support than troops than have indigenous folk go in there and catch bullets?

Your logic sucks, Barney, And, you're relatively nutless.

Bin Laden hated us and our ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Bin Laden hated us and our way of life way before GW got into office.

The democrats in office agreed with the republicans to go into Iraq.

The democrats still fund the war in Iraq.

Terrorists hate us and want to kill us all. So, now that we are in Iraq, the terrorists hate us and want to kill us all.

The main point of the post is that Bin Laden's words parrot exactly the hate America crud the left spews. Not just here, but everywhere. So, the connection that Bin Laden and the left hate America and the troops is true. ww

Jim:That bothe... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

That bothers me much more than Osama's latest videotape, where he's apparently playing your emotions like a violin.

Playing my emotions? Well maybe if you call laughing like a hyena on nitrous oxide my emotions.

Laughing because OBL hit on every anti-war, anti-bush talking point in the known universe, a parallel one, and the one the Cindy Shehag, nogo war and civil [mis]behaviour live in as well.

Laughing that finally.... FINALLY the idiotic talking point that "they want to kill us because they hate our cars, music, lifestyle" yadda.... yadda....yadda and etc will be dead once and for all. (maybe)

Laughing because OBL has stated in very PLAIN view for all to see they hate us because we are not conforming to their warped sense of Islam.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

marc, yo and peter are saying that bringing to justice the greatest mass murderer in US history is a waste of time.

Quote it asshat.

"Bin Laden says P... (Below threshold)
LAB:

"Bin Laden says President Bush's words echo "neoconservatives like Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Richard Perle."

Is this like "Simon Says"? One of many dead giveaways. This is some really funny stuff. Bin Laden (if still alive), could care less about neo-cons. He wanted all Americans annihilated.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Way to support the troops marc. Tell that to the 10th Mountain DIvision.

And of course you can cite remarks by members of the 10th Mountain DIvision that they didn't feel that was the correct course of action.

Right?

Or should I reach for my anti-cricket spray?

"He wanted all Americans an... (Below threshold)
yo:

"He wanted all Americans annihilated."

Not all of 'em. OBL wanted Barney to stick around in order to wash his balls.

Evidently the fact that Che... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Evidently the fact that Cheney and Rumsfeld are not neo-conservatives escapes both Bin Laden and Who are equally ignorant of American politics. Bin Laden's got the better excuse of course.

Jim spews this lie: "aren't you the least bit bothered that the President you voted for, would rather invaded a country that's no current threat to us, rather than actually catch someone who murdered 3,000 innocent American civilians?"

This is a lie because there is no basis for claiming that the Iraq operation was in the alternative for capturing Bin Laden. The invasion of Afghanistan had been long past and Tora Bora long over when the Iraq operation began.

You are just a bile filled person Jim.

Jim:So, Clinto... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

So, Clinton is to blame for not catching Bin Laden BEFORE Bin Laden 9/11...but Bush is NOT to blame for not catching Bin Laden when he was holed up in Tora Bora, AFTER 9/11.

Never one to pile on clinton, there's enough blame to go around, however, for you to make at an attempt to defend him because he didn't get OBL before 9/11 is absurd.

I DO BLAME clinton for not responding in the correct way to the attempted attack on the U.S.S. The Sullivans in Aden, Yeman.

Yet nine moths later this asshat sent 17 sailors to their deaths because he sent the U.S.S. Cole into the same port.

Babble200, you are hereby b... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Babble200, you are hereby banned form my posts until you answer the question.

Fact-check time, E... (Below threshold)
Eric:
Fact-check time, Eric: Bush **had** Osama holed up in Afghanistan caves, and Bush decided to outsource it to some locals rather than finish the job.

So however difficult it is to corner him and catch him, our soldiers DID it - and Bush decided not to follow through and do it right.

Don't you think that's bad? Don't you think that was a big mistake?

Yes I do think it was a mistake now. But hindsight is 20/20. During that time we had lot's of conflicting intel and limited resources on the ground covering a large country. The battle for Tora Bora was less than three months after 9/11 and about two months after we first invaded Afghanistan.

It's easy now to look back and say woulda/shoulda/coulda. At least Bush did go after Osama. What did Clinton do after the 93 WTC attack, Khobar Towers, the U.S. Embassys, and the U.S.S. Cole? Nothing.

>His posting cannot be blam... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>His posting cannot be blamed on anyone other than our commander-in-chief...and HIS failure to protect us....

Huh? How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since 2001?

Now please answer my question. It is not optional.

yo:Not all of ... (Below threshold)
marc:

yo:

Not all of 'em. OBL wanted Barney to stick around in order to wash his balls.

Shouldn't be too hard... they've been run "through the wringer" many times at Wizbang already. They may still be dirty but at least they're dry.

and BTW nogo, you at least ... (Below threshold)
Paul:

and BTW nogo, you at least addressed the question.. even though you did not answer it. That's why your post stayed and babble2000 got unpublished.

Paul:Babble200... (Below threshold)
marc:

Paul:

Babble200, you are hereby banned form my posts until you answer the question.

Only yours?

Damn the misfortune of selectivity!


DAMN YOU SELECTIVITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

Hello Jim.... oh Jim, ya st... (Below threshold)
marc:

Hello Jim.... oh Jim, ya still there?


Knock, knock, knock!

Jim, what did clinton do after the attempted attack on the U.S.S. The Sullivans in Aden, Yeman?

You know the country of Yemen that was on the State Dept's list of terror supporting nations before and after the attack?

Surely you have an answer, it's a simple question for simple people.

marcThanks for remem... (Below threshold)

marc
Thanks for remembering the Cole...and I would add the Khobar Towers ( deliberately targeted to kill US servicemen), the African Embassay bombings ( particularly Tanzier) and the first WTC attack...all the result of UBL.

Simply put, Clinton ignored these attacks. Libs will argue otherwhise, but what President did in fact respond as a result of an attack: Bush. Going to war has consequences far greater than the fool Clinton would take on.

Here's the short story about the trolls today: they are in a panic because the surge is working; they have begun to realize that the same folks who have been championing their argument that Bush/Cheney/Hitler are wrong, may in fact, be wrong.

HughS;Here's t... (Below threshold)
marc:

HughS;

Here's the short story about the trolls today: they are in a panic because the surge is working; they have begun to realize that the same folks who have been championing their argument that Bush/Cheney/Hitler are wrong, may in fact, be wrong.

And OBL speaks so well using their own phrases and talking points has their panties twisting like a frog in a blender hasn't helped their immediate mental health either.

And OBL speaks so wel... (Below threshold)

And OBL speaks so well using their own phrases and talking points

This (mis)information campaign has a history...going all the way back to Vietnam.

if today's Democrats (and o... (Below threshold)
Justrand:

if today's Democrats (and our "beloved" trolls) were alive in 1944 they would have been GLORIFYING Tokyo Rose!!

Lacking her, they have been reduced to glorying Bin Laden!

What a pathetic existance!

Finally .. a Democrat in fa... (Below threshold)
Neo:

Finally .. a Democrat in favor of tax cuts.

bin Laden issues a videotap... (Below threshold)

bin Laden issues a videotape taunting the US and Bush for not capturing him yet.

The lefties here taunt us and Bush for not capturing bin Laden yet.

By Monday they will all be sporting new, darker beards from Just For Men™.

Then they will be completely indistinguishable from their mentor.

seriously...how can anyone ... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

seriously...how can anyone here say what I think about America...let alone hate it simply because I believe Bush is the worst President ever.
Simply because I believe that a nation I fought for almost 40 years ago after I enlisted I still fight for when I attend rallies to end this debacle...
You people believe loving America is as simple as blindly following a president that make even me look literate.

If you all cared and were outraged when the President and Gonzo usurped the 4th Amendment with the same care and outrage whenever you think someone is trying to usurp the 2nd Amendment then you would be consistent.

Call me whatever name you pick up from Rush L.
I could care less...Remember it was a liberal Democratic President that led our nation to victory in World War II...and a Republican President that cut and ran in Viet Nam

nogo:Call me w... (Below threshold)
marc:

nogo:

Call me whatever name you pick up from Rush L.
I could care less...Remember it was a liberal Democratic President that led our nation to victory in World War II...and a Republican President that cut and ran in Viet Nam

OK... this isn't from Rush.... you're a lunatic moronic A-HOLE and I could care one wit what you did or didn't do 40 years ago. (save for continuing to exist)

And that repub pres did so at the behest of appeasement monkeys such as yourself forcing his hand politically AND after the DEM pres totally fucked up the job he started.

And take that condom off your head it makes it far to easy to call you a dickhead.

AND BTW when will you start a petition to convert America to Islam so it will end the Iraq war and to conform with OBL wants?

"How long did it take to... (Below threshold)

"How long did it take to catch Theodore Kaczynski? - marc

"Was the entire US military going after him?

"Idiot." - Brian

Was Kaczynski hiding in a cave in a foreign country surrounded by slavish devotees sworn to protect him?

Idiot.

Oyster - next time one of t... (Below threshold)
marc:

Oyster - next time one of these loonbats use the "we didn't get Osama DEM Laden" it will be followed by:

Jesus died and Christinanity is still alive and well. Mohammed is dead and Islam is alive and well, what makes you think a dead Osama DEM Laden will stop the jihadist-cut-throat wing of Islam die off?

Baghdad and nongoW... (Below threshold)
914:

Baghdad and nongo

What make's you believe Sin Laden is still alive?
Because He say's? You take the fabricated word's of a mass murderer at face value and run with it?
Unbelievably naive are you not..?

By the way..what happened to Obama's nose? if it's him, look's like He spend's an awful lot of time at the local tavern..

Big bad powerful sup... (Below threshold)
civil behavior:


Big bad powerful superpower. Most advanced technology in surveillance. Can pinpoint bombs so as to avoid civilian casualties. Satellites in space working round the clock. Intelligence operatives worldwide. Private mercenaries on their payroll.

I see. OBL making videsos and all of King George's haven't been able to find him?

Pathetic.

nogo... maybe you missed my... (Below threshold)
Paul:

nogo... maybe you missed my third request... so I'll give you last one.

Please answer the questions or don't bother posting on my threads.

Why mess with bin Laden whe... (Below threshold)
kim:

Why mess with bin Laden when his chief political effect these days is to demonstrate the degree to which liberals have become illiberal? He and Michael Moore ought to work together. Defending his life may soon become a plank of the Republican Party platform.
=========

Wretchard puts it so elegan... (Below threshold)
kim:

Wretchard puts it so elegantly; bin Laden comes off as the Muslim spokesman of a political party rather than the leader of a movement seeking to take over the world.
======================================

Hey, Marc, re: your post at... (Below threshold)
jim:

Hey, Marc, re: your post at 8:20, now numbered # 63 - my source is the news.

You know, that link I posted in my comment? # 54 ? (A side question - were some posts deleted? Has that changed the numbering here?)

If you disagree and think the facts are wrong, why, go and disprove it! Go find another source that shows my facts are wrong.

Otherwise, my argument stands.

SPQR claims:<blockquo... (Below threshold)
jim:

SPQR claims:

there is no basis for claiming that the Iraq operation was in the alternative for capturing Bin Laden. The invasion of Afghanistan had been long past and Tora Bora long over when the Iraq operation began.

Not quite, SPQR - they were still searching for Osama Bin Laden in those caves in January of 2002.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june02/search_1-3.html

By which time, Bush had already started planning to invade Iraq instead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17347-2004Apr16.html

Beginning in late December 2001, President Bush met repeatedly with Army Gen. Tommy R. Franks and his war cabinet to plan the U.S. attack on Iraq even as he and administration spokesmen insisted they were pursuing a diplomatic solution

But, even though this clearly shows Bush's mind was elsewhere than catching Bin Laden - let's say that he was still focused on catching him throughout the op in Tora Bora.

What, after we miss Bin Laden once, we just stop?? We just let him go? With the forces and resources we poured in to Iraq, the 100,000+ soldiers and the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars, I think it's pretty certain we could have caught Bin Laden and ended Al Qaeda forever.

And I would like to have seen that, rather than see this creeep still on video, making asses of the entire US for letting him go free.

OBL hit on every a... (Below threshold)
jim:
OBL hit on every anti-war, anti-bush talking point in the known universe, a parallel one, and the one the Cindy Shehag, nogo war and civil [mis]behaviour live in as well.

Well, there you go. That's exactly how your emotions have been manipulated.

The Iraq invasion has been *great* for Al Qaeda. Seriously! Really. Thanks directly to our getting bogged down in Iraq, their funding, recruiting and prestige has been *increased*.

And now, for every terrorist we kill in Iraq, we *create* more, for a net gain of terrorists who hate us.

And this occupation of Iraq has further stretched the US so thin, that we've been forced to give Bin Laden what he wants, and pull our troops out of Saudi Arabia as well!

That's just factual reality. I'll be happy to post stats and reports and studies for those, if any of you want them.

So Bin Laden and Al Qaeda *want* us to stay in Iraq. They *love* that the US is stuck in Iraq.

And it's not beyond Al Qaeda to tell YOU what YOU want to hear, in order to keep us in Iraq.

Marc, # 79 - read my origin... (Below threshold)
jim:

Marc, # 79 - read my original again.

My point is: let's say, for the sake of argument, that Clinton really could have caught Bin Laden, but blew it.

How does that mean that Bush is blameless, for *also* being able to catch Bin Laden, but blowing it?

In other words, how does Clinton making a mistake, mean that Bush did NOT make a mistake?

Eric, # 81 - thank you for ... (Below threshold)
jim:

Eric, # 81 - thank you for at least admitting the possibility of Bush screwing up.

But it's interesting to me, that the "hindsight is 20/20" argument applies to Bush, but NOT to Clinton.

So, by this argument, Bush is *not* to blame for failing to catch Bin Laden, because of the confusing intel and other factors...But Clinton *is* to blame for failing to catch Bin Laden, when in fact he did many things to try and catch Bin Laden, including launching cruise missiles; catching and convicting all the perps of the first WTC bombing.

And when he DID launch those cruise missiles against Bin Laden, the Republicans accused him of trying to distract from Lewinsky.

Now, those Republicans had no idea that Bin Laden would perpetrate 9/11. So, to accuse *them* of letting Bin Laden go free because they made it tough for Clinton to pursue Bin Laden, would be unfair. That would be 20/20 hindsight.

For the same reason, though, criticizing Clinton but excusing Bush for both failing to catch the same guy, is only applying 20/20 hindisight to the guy you don't like - Clinton.

"By which time, Bush had al... (Below threshold)
groucho:

"By which time, Bush had already started planning to invade Iraq instead."

Thanks to the brilliant visionaries from The Project For A New American Century and Bush's willingness to install many of them in his new government, an invasion of Iraq was in the planning stages long before Bin Laden reared his ugly head on 9/11. OBL caught BushCo/PNAC looking ahead to their real target, Iraq, so they had to appear they were really concerned about him, hence the "wanted dead or alive" manifesto and the half-hearted mission in Afghanistan. Soon enough, though, the bloom was off that rose and Bush told us he didn't really think about Bin Laden much anymore: he and his team of crack foreign policy wizards were too busy manipulating the country's wave of fear into support for the invasion of Iraq.

Everyone in this country should be outraged that our leadership has failed to bring this guy to justice 6 years after 9/11. I'm sure we have the capability; shame on Bush and his circle of incompetent fools for not providing the will.

Marc, as re: "The Sullivans... (Below threshold)
jim:

Marc, as re: "The Sullivans"...what did Clinton do?

The attack failed, and Clinton continued to try to catch Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. Foiling several other of the "Millennium" bomb plots in the process.

Now, here's my question for you:

What did Bush do, to respond to the Cole bombing?

Here's the answer I found: nothing. Bush did nothing substantive, in any way, to respond to this at all, in the 8 months he was in office before 9/11.

The attack occurred right before the 200 election took place; and Clinton didn't take action in the last 3 months of his Presidency.

However, several responses were made and planned, and handed to Bush during the transition. And the Bush administration didn't act on them - AND didn't make or execute any responses of their own.

To sum up: Bush had 8 months to do something, did nothing, and spent the entire month of August 2001 on his magical playtime ranch-without-animals instead.

That's what I found. But hey, maybe I'm wrong. So Marc, what did Bush do about this, before 9/11 snapped him awake to the dangers of Al Qaeda? Can you tell me?

Jim:And this o... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

And this occupation of Iraq has further stretched the US so thin, that we've been forced to give Bin Laden what he wants, and pull our troops out of Saudi Arabia as well!

Forced? Horseshit.

At its highest the number of us troops in Saudi Arabia averaged 10,000 and that was only during the drive into baghdad.

During the remainder of the entire stay in the Kingdom the total averaged 5,000.

Think about the talking point asshat... it's consistently "the troops are stretched."

Those are "troops" IN IRAQ and are Marines, Army and Nat Guard.

99.999% of the troops that were in Saudi Arabia were AIR FORCE! Not "stretched Marines, Army and Nat Guard!"

The AIR FORCE's sole mission was to assist in the enforcement of the no-fly zones.

No Saddam, no no-fly zones. It was a very simple equation to figure out the AIR FORCE weren't needed in the Kingdom any longer.

"Forced" my ass.

As full disclousure I was part of that .001% that were not AIR FORCE as a Navy to Air Force liaison for six months.

I don't expect you to get a thank you card from him, but feel sure Osama DEM Laden appreciates you furthering his BS about how the U.S. was forced out of the Kingdom because the Marines, Army and Nat Guard are "stretched."

Jim, check the mirror, your eyes have turned a shade of brown from all the shit that has backed up.

Marc, were those troops rem... (Below threshold)
jim:

Marc, were those troops removed from Saudi Arabia?

Yes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm

Is this exactly what Bin Laden originally wanted?

Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/19/ltm.06.html

Were those troops needed in Iraq?

Well, I think another 5,000 to 10,000 soldiers are badly needed, as well as the resources and infrastructure to support them - but maybe Bush pulled them out some other reason.

Why do you think Bush made Bin Laden happy, and gave Bin Laden prestige, by doing this? I hope at least it was a good reason.

Jim, RE your comment #108.<... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim, RE your comment #108.

The attack failed, and Clinton continued to try to catch Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. Foiling several other of the "Millennium" bomb plots in the process.

If you want to say catching one guy by the shear dumb luck of one border customs agent looking into a trunk as "clinton foiling" something your delusional.

My ref to the U.S.S. Sullivans was to make a single point, Clinton has blood on his hands by knowing Yemen was on the terror list sent the ship into Aden and knew full well a plot was attempted, yet this A-Hole sent the U.S.S. Cole in the same port, that now was an even bigger and demonstrated threat, and killed 17 Cole sailors.

AND I never said anything about clinton's response to the Cole attack, "nice" try at diverting attention.

However, several responses were made and planned, and handed to Bush during the transition. And the Bush administration didn't act on them - AND didn't make or execute any responses of their own.

Plans? What plans?

Not according to the Inspector Generals report (pdf file) released last month.

# U.S. spy agencies, which were overseen by Tenet, lacked a comprehensive strategic plan to counter Osama bin Laden prior to 9/11. The inspector general concluded that Tenet "by virtue of his position, bears ultimate responsibility for the fact that no such strategic plan was ever created."
# The CIA's analysis of al-Qaida before Sept. 2001 was lacking. No comprehensive report focusing on bin Laden was written after 1993, and no comprehensive report laying out the threats of 2001 was assembled. "A number of important issues were covered insufficiently or not at all," the report found.
Guess you didn't see that. Or more likely ignored it.

Plan? what plan, Bush had to start from scratch.

Jim:Well, I th... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

Well, I think another 5,000 to 10,000 soldiers are badly needed, as well as the resources and infrastructure to support them - but maybe Bush pulled them out some other reason.

Can you not read? OR, are you calling me a liar? Where in your BBC link does it say Marines, Army or Nat Guard, you know forces that ARE IN IRAQ.

It does use the very generic term "troops" describing them and it does say this:

Technically US troops there have been part of Operation Southern Watch, which has enforced the no-fly zone over southern Iraq set up after 1991.
So smart guy, you tell me how many Marines, Army soldiers and Nat Guard members does it take to maintain U.S. Air Force F-16 fighter aircraft, KC-135 Stratotankers and Rivet Joint A/C?

Here's a clue NONE!

And BTW fuck what Osama DEM Laden wants I'm well aware of what he wrote in is fatwas of '96 and '98.


Considering you WILL NOT take the word of someone that spent 6 months there (which means you've called me liar in your obtuse way) and your obvious confusion over what "Troops" and "soldiers" are you can FOAD.

OBL is reading Kos? Waziris... (Below threshold)
Wethal:

OBL is reading Kos? Waziristan was wifi already?
Before Philadelphia? My, my.

Jim, that was an amazingly ... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Jim, that was an amazingly stupid, vapid and dishonest argument on your part.

My god, in January of 2002, the Bush administration dared to weaken the hunt for bin Laden by beginning to plan another operation. The hubris!

That's the stupidest attempt by you to defend what was a stupid whine of yours in the first place. I'm stunned you even bothered to write that.

If you want to say... (Below threshold)
jim:
If you want to say catching one guy by the shear dumb luck of one border customs agent looking into a trunk as "clinton foiling" something your delusional.

Hey, you can explain what happened any way you want. But the bottom line is - actions taken, and results achieved.

There were plenty of opportunities that the Bush administration missed, in the run-up to 9/11. But you guys want to zero in on Clinton, and give Bush nothing but excuses.

Clinton tried and failed. In the 8 months before 9/11, Bush didn't even try.

AND I never said a... (Below threshold)
jim:
AND I never said anything about clinton's response to the Cole attack,

That's right, you didn't. You asked a question, and I answered. Now I'm asking a question, for you to answer.

Well, SPQR - Bush started t... (Below threshold)
jim:

Well, SPQR - Bush started the planning to invade Iraq in December - while Bin Laden still hadn't been found, and was searched for until January.

I believe in results. Bush blew it, didn't put enough troops on it, and Bin Laden got away, and is now giving us the finger from somewhere in Pakistan. Rather than finish the job right, Bush just started planning to invade a country that *****didn't even attack us********.

So, yes, the hubris. Yes, the total lack of caring about someone who killed 3000+ of our civilians. The total lack of interest in justice.

Why doesn't that bother you?

I really don't understand this. Please explain it to me.

Why doesn't it bother you that this guy who killed 3000 of our citizens, has completely escaped our justice? And has now actually achieved every single objective he had against us?

Seriously. All argument and partisan differences aside - I really don't understand why this doesn't make you angry.

Marc, as for the Clinton pl... (Below threshold)
jim:

Marc, as for the Clinton plans for response to the Cole, here's some more of history that your news outlets apparently aren't giving you.

Here's an analysis of it:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm

Here's the actual memo, if you want to see it:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/clarke%20memo.pdf

And here's a basic rundown of this situation:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/jan-june04/hearings2_3-23.html

So, tell me again why it's Clinton's fault for trying and failing to catch Bin Laden before 9/11, but it's not Bush's fault for NOT trying to catch Bin Laden in the 8 months before 9/11 - or failing after 9/11?

BTW Jim, answer my question... (Below threshold)
Paul:

BTW Jim, answer my question or you are banned from my threads. Period. Last warning.

>So, tell me again why it's... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>So, tell me again why it's Clinton's fault for trying and failing to catch Bin Laden before 9/11,

Because Clinton turned down bin Laden when he was offered 3 times you monumental moron.

Jim:Marc, as f... (Below threshold)
marc:

Jim:

Marc, as for the Clinton plans for response to the Cole, here's some more of history that your news outlets apparently aren't giving you.

Get off the Cole you mental midget. I NEVER blamed clinton on the Cole with the exception he knew Aden was a dangerous port.
The Cole attack happened so late on his watch he couldn't have done much even if he wanted to. But that's where HE FAILED, he NEVER wanted to use the military, the man was a pussy.

I understand that's all you got left, divert to the Cole. But that has nothing to do with the IG report I cited and linked to.

You claim Bush is culpable in part because clinton handed over "plans" to deal with Osama DEM Laden. The IG report definitively disproves not only your idea but clintons, clarke and all the other lying idiots that claimed there was.

Jim, give it up, you have the debating skills of a one celled animal and the intelligence to match.

BTW, your pbs link once again proves what an idiot you are. It not only fails to mention any comprehensive "terror plan" given to Bush by clinton but includes this:

FORMER SEN. BOB KERREY: Every single time I heard the administration come up before the intelligence committee that I was on, maybe just trying to keep doing what you had done for years before, it was we're going to send the FBI to investigate this stuff. And I would say, "My God, I don't understand this." They killed airmen in Khobar Towers. They attacked our facilities in East Africa. They attacked our sailors on the Cole. I don't understand and still today don't understand why the military wasn't given a dominant role.
Yep, that sums up clintons "terror war," toss a few cruise missiles around, a few FBI agents and a bit of the justice dept and call it a day.

Enjoy your time in "banned hell," it should give you more than enough time to rejoin the moroons at DKos.

Jim, the dishonesty and rid... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Jim, the dishonesty and ridiculous excuse for logic you use in silly attacks on President Bush does make me angry. I'm furious that you and your compatriots have turned important national security debates into an exercise in Monty Python burlesque.

Paul, there's a lot of ques... (Below threshold)
jim:

Paul, there's a lot of questions flying around here. You want to specify which one?

Which I'll be glad to answer, after which I would like to ask you a question.

No, Marc - you *don't* want... (Below threshold)
jim:

No, Marc - you *don't* want to talk about the Cole. I get that.

What you either don't get, or are trying to avoid, is that *I* want to talk about the Cole.

And I answered your question. So now it's your turn to answer mine - if you can deal with it.

Clinton tried, and Clinton failed. And maybe he could have tried harder. That's a valid argument.

What I am pointing out to you is:

Before 9/11, Bush didn't even *try*.

Paul, re: #120 - you're mis... (Below threshold)
jim:

Paul, re: #120 - you're missing about half of my argument in your response.

Here's the full argument - please give the full response.

So, tell me again why it's Clinton's fault for trying and failing to catch Bin Laden before 9/11, but it's not Bush's fault for NOT trying to catch Bin Laden in the 8 months before 9/11 - or failing after 9/11?

To reiterate:

Why does Clinton failing at something, excuse Bush for failing at the same thing - and make the WHOLE THING Clinton's fault?

Please explain this to me.

Also, happy to answer whatever question you're talking about.

Jim, the dishonest... (Below threshold)
jim:
Jim, the dishonesty and ridiculous excuse for logic you use in silly attacks on President Bush does make me angry. I'm furious that you and your compatriots have turned important national security debates into an exercise in Monty Python burlesque.

Well SPQR, from my side of the fence, it seems that many on this site would rather blame Bush's actions on Clinton's administration, rather than hold Bush accountable for his own decisions.

I think Bush is a grown-up man, and should be treated like one.

Oh and Marc, re: #121 - if ... (Below threshold)
jim:

Oh and Marc, re: #121 - if you click on the first link, it takes you to the memo Clarke gave to Rice, that she promptly ignored.

And yes, there's a variety of information on that site. And there are criticisms that can be made, valid ones, about Clinton's pursuit of Bin Laden.

What I'm trying to get across to you guys, is that even if Clinton was bad at something, that doesn't mean Bush is automatically good at it.

You can see that, right?

Jim, your #126 is a complet... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Jim, your #126 is a complete non sequitur. You've made a ridiculous and nonsensical attack on Bush. It has nothing to do with holding his accountable for his actions. It has to do with your attempt to act as though events 15 months apart were simultaneous and interdependant. It has to do with the fact that your bold opinions are not based on any factual reality.

SPQR - just so I'm sure exa... (Below threshold)
jim:

SPQR - just so I'm sure exactly what you're referring to: you think that it's ridiculous for me to say that Bush made a bad choice, by invading Iraq rather than catching Bin Laden first, crushing Al Qaeda, and THEN invading Iraq?

Here's the thing: Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden were our **enemies who had already attacked us** and had killed ***3000 of us****.

I consider it smart to deal with our enemies who've attacked us and killed some of us already, first - rather than leave this undone, and instead invade someone who has not attacked us, and has nothing to do with any attacks on us.

But you think it was more important to remove Saddam Hussein, than get the man who killed our people and the organization that he built to do it?

Really? Do you really think that?

Jim, now you are creating ... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Jim, now you are creating strawmen arguments.

The invasion of Iraq did not take needed resources away from the Afghanistan operation. Yours is a false dichotomy. It always has been, despite your attempts to misrepresent the chronology.




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