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From The Mouths Of Babes...

Well, Senator Obama has announced his plan to end the war in Iraq. And it's rather... um... worthy of discussion.

Obama's plan is based on four points:


1. "Immediately begin to pull out troops engaged in combat operations at a pace of one or two brigades every month, to be completed by the end of next year."

Also known as "surrender on the installment plan." This gives the enemy a nice little calendar they can mark off. All they have to do is hang on a little longer, and they can declare victory by default.

2. "Call for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, convened with the United Nations, which would not adjourn until Iraq's leaders reach a new accord on reconciliation."

Would this be the same UN that oversaw the Oil For Food program, also known as "Saddam's license to bribe people around the world?" The same UN that mocked US offers for security in the early days of the occupation, then ran like hell when they were attacked? The same UN that has so little credibility with the general populace that, when it was reported some UN bureaucrat had a vial of poison gas in his office as a "souvenir" from Iraq, almost no one questioned the possibility it was true? (Fortunately, it turned out to be an erroneous report, but my point remains valid -- it wasn't until after the substance in question was proven safe that the nay-sayers started mocking those who had taken the initial reports seriously -- NOT when the reports first came out.)

Also, I'm not that well-versed in the current Iraqi constitution, but I feel fairly certain that it doesn't contain language granting the United States the right to demand they set it aside and write a new one from scratch.

3. "Use presidential leadership to surge our diplomacy with all of the nations of the region on behalf of a new regional security compact."

The four biggest influences right now on Iraq are immediate neighbors -- Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey. The Turks are mainly interested in keeping the Kurds (both in Turkey and in northern Iraq) from getting too uppity. The Saudis' motives are purely selfish; they want to keep a handle on their own crazies, and encouraging them to go "fight the infidels in Iraq" keeps the pressure off them. Meanwhile, Syria and Iran are just-short-of-openly challenging the US from establishing a free and democratic Muslim state in the heart of a near-absolute region of tyrannies. (In this context, Israel doesn't count.) Their interests and ours are diametrically opposed, and no amount of "surge diplomacy" (gee, I wonder where he picked up THAT term) will change that.

4. "Take immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster in Iraq, and to hold accountable any perpetrators of war crimes."

Well, part of the humanitarian disaster going on is that the bad guys there like shooting, blowing up, beheading, or otherwise killing the people who are there offering humanitarian assistance. So killing, capturing, or otherwise neutralizing them would be a good first step.

As far as the second part... that's a nice idea, but it seldom works. I hate to say it, but I think the best model to follow would be that of South Africa, with its "Truth And Reconciliation" commissions. Perpetrators of crimes and atrocities could win amnesty for their deeds under the old regime by publicly confessing them. Yes, absolute justice is denied, but in the long run it does a halfway decent job of ending the cycle of violence and retribution and revenge.

I've always thought that Obama could be a decent candidate, and perhaps even a decent president, but not just yet. He's far too "green" for the big leagues. He's spent nearly his entire career as a legislator. He could use some time in some sort of executive position, or perhaps (dare I say it) a stint in the private sector to broaden his experiences.

This just reinforces that belief.


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Comments (39)

Also, I'm not that... (Below threshold)
jpm100:
Also, I'm not that well-versed in the current Iraqi constitution, but I feel fairly certain that it doesn't contain language granting the United States the right to demand they set it aside and write a new one from scratch

This is right from the old idea that the Iraqi government is just puppet government for US/Haliburton and not intend to legitimate, now or in the future. This is the consequence of starting to believe your own talking points.

Its also a slap in the face to all those involved in the effort so far from US troops, diplomats, government officials, to Iraqis risking their lives to vote.

He'll never be anything but... (Below threshold)
kim:

He'll never be anything but a political creature, and I think he's too stupid to go far. He has an amazing capability to absorb leftist thought but none to critically analyze it. He doesn't comprehend the dissonance, so he guilessly demonstrates it.

An excellent example was wanting to have tea with the leaders of state sponsors of terrorism, but invade Nomadistan on a wild goose chase after bin Laden. As Romney pointed out, Obama went from Jane Fonda to Dr. Strangelove in a week on that one, and he was trapped by the Tora Bora meme and Pelosi's poseur diplomacy.
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"Surge diplomacy" which was... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

"Surge diplomacy" which was preceded by an extended period of "surge head in the sand" and ultimately followed by "surge genocide and slaughter".

His statesmanship and grasp of complex foreign policy issues is astounding. I'm surprised he hasn't burst on the scene sooner during these troubled times to save us. Oh yeah, he was busy formulating his strategy to invade one of our allies, Pakistan.

And we're supposed to take this guy seriously?

"Take immediate steps to... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"Take immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster in Iraq,"

There was an ommission in the statement. What he should have said was:

Take immediate steps to confront the humanitarian disaster that my policies, or those of any Democrat, would create in Iraq

Also:
"I've always thought that Obama could be ... perhaps even a decent president,"

Are you saying Jay, that you'd be o.k. with weakening our military, stopping the fight against Islamofascism (and most like apeasing and encouraging Islamofascism), further restricting basic human rights, and making America a lot more socialist on all levels? Or did you just add that statement to make your post seem more credible?

Well, P, Obama's wife agree... (Below threshold)
kim:

Well, P, Obama's wife agrees with Jay.
==========================

"surge our diplomacy"</i... (Below threshold)

"surge our diplomacy"

Interesting language. When can we start shouting, "The surge isn't working!"

Hey, Barney - Yawn!... (Below threshold)
SShiell:

Hey, Barney - Yawn!

Barney, the General's theat... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

Barney, the General's theater is IRAQ, not the US mainland. How would he know if "we're safer"?

BarneyG2000 said:<... (Below threshold)

BarneyG2000 said:

Well we can always stay the course. Which is what the President will announce tonight. According to his plan by the summer of '08 we will have the same number of troops in Iraq as we did in the summer of '06.

Well Barn, why don't we try another strategy.

Try this logic out for size. If, when we added 20,000 troops and the strategy of "clear and hold" accomplished stability in those regions, then another 50,000 for a six month all out "super-surge" just might do the trick. Of course, the only way to add these numbers to the theater would mean deploying troops stationed in other parts of the world that would weaken the strategic positions for a short period of time. It would be like moving all your houses and hotels onto Boardwalk and banking on your opponent to land there. Once is all it would take and blammo, game over.

But this is not a game, I know. The real game is going on in congress with the democrats attempting to find some footing as to what's the next best thing to their cut-n-run policy that has failed as miserably as the Move-ON ad in the New York Times. Questioning the integrity of a 4-Star General with impeccable credentials may not have been the most brilliant move the Soro's/Anti-war crowd has made, but it sure puts their feet (stance) firmly in the cement. We know exactly where these cowards stand. And there's a bunch of democrats standing on the edge just waiting to see how deep the hole is before they decide to step in. (Don' forget yur waders Barn)


jpm100 wrote,"This... (Below threshold)
Mike:

jpm100 wrote,

"This is right from the old idea that the Iraqi government is just [a] puppet government for US/Haliburton and not intend to [be] legitimate, now or in the future. This is the consequence of starting to believe your own talking points."

Right on.

And it also reveals an embarrassing amount of ignorance on the part of Democrats, who seem to have forgotten that writing the US Constitution took almost six years -- from October 1781, the surrender of Cornwallis at Georgetown, to September 1787, the conclusion of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. And it took another four years (1791) before we ratified the Bill of Rights.

One wonders, if Barry and his pals had been around 220 years ago, would he have been calling for a dissolution of the United States and the restoration of our status as a British colony, simply because things were taking too long?

#4: " . . . and to hold ac... (Below threshold)
GeminiChuck:

#4: " . . . and to hold accountable any perpetrators of war crimes."

and exactly how would Sen Obama do that by pulling out? Perhaps use the Murtha plan and attack the "perpetrators" from Okinawa or Guam. gc

"..and to hold accountable ... (Below threshold)
hermie:

"..and to hold accountable any perpetrators of war crimes."

Of course, Obama only means those US soldiers who are 'war criminals' and are convicted in the media ala Murtha.


When Obama talks about "war... (Below threshold)

When Obama talks about "war criminals," are you SURE he is talking about Iraqis?

After all, his colleague John Kerry had the same view of American soldiers in Vietnam, and Dick Durbin seems to think it of them now, as does John Murtha.

Given the sort of moonbat moron that would support this ignorant geek in the first place, is it safe to assume the UN 'war crimes' trials won't be of Bush, Cheney, Petraeus, and all the Americans who've served there?

I wonder if he came up this... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

I wonder if he came up this "plan" by actually talking to generals, intel, actual Iraqis, etc. Or did he just concoct the thing while sitting on the crapper because it's a load...

Alternately, Barney, he cou... (Below threshold)

Alternately, Barney, he could mean "my job is in Iraq. I will not offer an opinion on matters outside my area of expertise and responsibility."

I can understand why you wouldn't think that at first. It involves intellectual honesty and integrity.

J.

Violence in Iraq is real be... (Below threshold)

Violence in Iraq is real because there is not enough security in the nation, not too much of it. Pulling out any peacekeepers would only contribute to a worsening situation such as the British pullout in Basra which has allowed rival Shiite militia groups to battle each other for control of this important Southern Iraq oil province.

The tiny Al Qaeda organization is responsible for only a small portion of the violence in Iraq. It is the continued flow of arms and support to militia groups from Iran, Saudi Arabia and other states that contributes immensely to the anarchy and sectarian violence. So far, neither the Iraqi government or the U.S. have really attempted to dismantle these militia groups. The largest militia in Iraq now comprises over 100,000 armed members.

"Would this be the same UN ... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"Would this be the same UN that oversaw the Oil For Food program, also known as "Saddam's license to bribe people around the world?"

I think it's the same program that kept Saddam from having WMDs. You know, the ones you still think we found over there.

Seriously, why should anyone listen to your opinions JT? You've been wrong about everything regarding this war, including your "insurgents won't keep this up" line from several years ago.

Barney, it's considered imp... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

Barney, it's considered improper for military officers to provide official comment on items outside of their direct knowledge or influence. Minimizes "misunderstandings" and reinforces integrity. You'll not hear "depends on what the meaning of "is" is" at the USMA.

If you feel that way, jp2, ... (Below threshold)

If you feel that way, jp2, why do YOU keep listening to my opinions? Nobody's got you shackled to the web site...

J.

This is the same UN that ha... (Below threshold)
Tim McFall:

This is the same UN that has been 'working' the two Korea's little war problem for over 50 years?

OOOkkkkay.

Hey Obama the Magic Negro, ... (Below threshold)
stan25 Author Profile Page:

Hey Obama the Magic Negro, where is the call for the redeployment of American troops that are stationed in Kosovo and other places that we have them and don't have any business of being there in the first place? Oh that is right, a Democrat placed them there so that is ok. You and your chums are all for that, because they are supporting brown people.

You want to deploy American troops to Darfur. One question: will they be there forever?

Would this be the ... (Below threshold)
marc:
Would this be the same UN that oversaw the Oil For Food program, also known as "Saddam's license to bribe people around the world?" The same UN that mocked US offers for security in the early days of the occupation, then ran like hell when they were attacked?
What yes it is!

It's also the same U.N. that has spent eight years "setting up" a government in Kosovo and STILL haven't made one iota of progress.

Why, you could almost call it a quagmire. A Clinton and Maggie quagmire.

3. "Use presidential leadership to surge our diplomacy with all of the nations of the region on behalf of a new regional security compact."
The threat of using or actually using the military is the natural extension of diplomacy.

There's a reason Libya gave up it's nucs, and diplomacy was a very small part of it. Having 150,000 U.S and Allied troops virtually sitting on their doorstep with the full knowledge they might be next after Saddam was the very large part of it.

Where the "peace-at-all-costs" nutcakes at code pink and other similar orgs (not to mention those suffering from BDS and neophyte presidential candidates) miss the logic train is a stable Iraq allied with the U.S. and with and long-time presence of U.S. troops on it's soil will serve the same purpose as they did for Libya.

It would put a serious dent in Syria's future plans as a more dominate player in the middle east, cut the land bridge between syria and its master Iran ( and the same between Iran and the Hezzies in Lebanon), and finally stand on Saudi Arabia's doorstep.

Sitting on Saudi Arabia's doorstep provides a much better platform to deal with the radicals and various and sundry lunatics within it's borders.

jp2:I think it... (Below threshold)
marc:

jp2:

I think it's the same program that kept Saddam from having WMDs. You know, the ones you still think we found over there.

The sanctions went into effect in 1991. As late as 1998 there was no full accounting of what he had or didn't have. That's 7 years of ineffectual BS.

As late as late 2002 Saddam still had missiles who ranges exceeded U.S. mandated sanctions. The same can be said for UAV's that exceeded permissible ranges.

Both the Kay and Duelfor reports state Saddam maintained the capability to restart his C&B warfare and nuc programs once the sanctions were lifted.

Iraq's WMDs may never be found, on the other hand once the deserts of southern Syria are open for inspection they may very well be.

Besides..... who gives a rats ass what Obama has to say on the matter. He's diplomatic and military chickenhawk.

Right "progressives?"

This is an excellent plan t... (Below threshold)
epador:

This is an excellent plan to end the war (and initiate homicidal purging on a Reich-sized scale) in Iraq and bring the war home...

Baghdad barney:You... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Your link is garbage on a couple of counts. First it won't load. You really need to learn how to operate in the new fangled internet thingy.

And secondly, from your brief quote it appears to be and opinion piece. Does it contain data to suggest the "Shiite-led government feels little pressure?"

Or is it more tripe by the AP all dolled up to look like news?

Yeah! BG. That is what the ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Yeah! BG. That is what the REPORTER said. You are so dishonest in your opinion it is incredible. How do you live with yourself? ww

Munitions caches from the G... (Below threshold)
Mikey NTH:

Munitions caches from the Great War are still being found in northern France. If Iraq had wanted to hide WMDs, they could and they would be difficult to locate.

However, Iraq is definitely out of that business now. Which is a good thing to know.

Baghdad barney:As ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

As I suspected and as WW pointed out, the article offers nothing but the reporters opinion of the situation.

For someone who so easily uses OPINION to buttress his arguments why did you leave the opinion of Former U.S. diplomat Peter Galbraith out of your post and contained in your link.

"Iraq after an American defeat will look very much like Iraq today," he said last month -- "a land divided along ethnic lines into Arab and Kurdish states, with a civil war being fought within its Arab part."

Sorry, that was a stupid question wasn't it. It supports "stay the course."

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Marc, I think that is a great quote. If we stay or we go the situation will be the same, so why should we stay at the cost of the lives about 80 soldiers and $36-billion per month?

Then why did you leave it out?

The answer is obvious the way you spin the interpretation of it.

Of course to believe things will remain the same if the troops stay is to believe they are standing around in one big circle-jerk.

The opposite is true, while progress isn't what it should be it is indeed happening in various parts of the country. And some residents, OMG, actually want us to stay.

And yes BB they are expressing their OPINIONS, but they carry much more weight than some drive-by AP "reporter."

He forgot to list the fifth... (Below threshold)

He forgot to list the fifth point:
Clap for Tinkerbell! If you don't clap she'll die!

Badhdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Badhdad barney:

Way to spin out of your error marc.

And what "error" would that be?

JT:"If you feel that way, j... (Below threshold)
jp2:

JT:"If you feel that way, jp2, why do YOU keep listening to my opinions?"

I read everything. Right, left and center. Your history and credibility are near the bottom. (Some guys at redstate have you beat)

You still think the insurgents can't keep it up?

jp2I read ever... (Below threshold)
marc:

jp2

I read everything. Right, left and center. Your history and credibility are near the bottom. (Some guys at redstate have you beat)

Jeebus, if JT is near the bottom where does that place you?

In a sub-basement time-share along with Bagdhad barney and Jim?

Obama is such an idiot that... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Obama is such an idiot that he doesn't realize that part 4 undermines part 2? Of course that goes over the heads of the trolls too.

SPQR:Of course... (Below threshold)
marc:

SPQR:

Of course that goes over the heads of the trolls too.

Isn't that true by definition? Trolls live under bridges by and large, that means everything drives over them.

Maybe Osama Obama should he... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Maybe Osama Obama should heed the call of the police in Phillie and go patrol the streets to stop the daily murders. 294 this year in a city of 1.5 million. Compare this to the number of Americans murdered in Iraq, a country of over 25 million. Have we had 4,000 + soldiers killed this year? The democrats are spending all of their time in BDS while the democrat controlled cities are becoming 'hell', and they don't have the slightest idea what to do about it other than to scream 'gun control'. Yes there should be gun control, every honest citizen in Phillie should be issued a Glock 40 Cal and taught how to use it. The crime rate would bottom out after a thousand thugs were buried. Just what the Soldiers in Iraq are doing, kill the bad guys and the rest can live in peace.

My Plan: Give them control ... (Below threshold)
Dr. Obvious:

My Plan: Give them control of their natural resources and then get out.
That's all it takes to make the majority of the world (and Iraqis) trust the US and begin to help us with the disaster.

Of course, that'll never happen because it was always about the US controlling the oil.
Much better to "waste the troops and our treasury" so a few of their buddies at Exxon/ Mobil get their cut.

The Good Doctor

I think you misspelled your... (Below threshold)
marc:

I think you misspelled your own name - shouldn't that read Dr. Oblivious?

"Dr." how much oil do we get from Iraq?

Dr. Oblivious, you forgot "... (Below threshold)
MikeNC:

Dr. Oblivious, you forgot "no blood for oil" and Halliburton.




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