And nothing says "taking care of the troops" like calling them cold-blooded murderers, does it, al-Murtha?

Keep talking Murtha, whatever you do, don't stop talking! 'Cause every time you call this a "Republican War" you get people off the fence and over to our side.

Worthless, pork-gobbling jackass.

Pelosi has already called this DOA. Murtha is posturing for a cabinet-level position in the new Democratic administration.

One thing I don't understand here is how fighting in Iraq somehow prevents the United States from undergoing the same sort of religious demographic transformation that is taking place in parts of Europe.

Phony patriot Murtha stepped in it now. Just when things are looking up in Iraq, the board is all green, progress being made across the board -- it's time to surrender.

Ask yourself why would Democrats want to surrender now? Why stomp all over the sacrifices made by our soldiers and their families.

Raise taxes, fund socialism and gun control. Democrats are easy to understand once you realize what the formula is.

Spending money to fend off your country's enemies instead of wasting billions funding socialism must really pain the Democrats.

Mr. Murtha angrily denied that their approach would imperil soldiers already on the battlefield, saying Congress could provide enough funds for basic needs through the annual defense appropriations bill currently under consideration.

I wonder if the "basic" needs includes money for enough ammunition to fight their way out of Iraq when retreat is sounded by a democrat administration? I wonder if "basic" needs includes the sealift to pull them off the beaches of Iraq?

The chairman also said he will soon introduce legislation for a war tax surcharge for all Americans -- except members of the military and their families -- to cover the conflict's huge costs. The tax, he said, could add as much as 15 percent to the federal income tax bills of the wealthiest Americans, while low- and middle-income Americans would pay about 2 percent.

Has Mr. Obey forgotten that a huge amount of democrat supporters/donators are in that wealthiest tax bracket? Maybe Murtha and Obey need to pull together the democrat party that controls the congress and get legislation passed to stop the war.

I wonder if "basic" needs includes the sealift to pull them off the beaches of Iraq?

Yeah, look at all those beaches.

Someone call Miss South Carolina, it looks like we have a victim of the map shortage here!

Can the republicans withold funds for the DEMOCRATS (neverending) War on Poverty?
Talk about a quagmire.

Mantis -

Sealift IS the primary means to transport the heavy stuff, and Iraq does have some pretty good ports. So does Kuwait. Iraq isn't landlocked like Afghanistan, but it's certainly not as beachy as Qatar.

He didn't happen to mention an apology to the Marines did he? Naw, didn't think so.

I see billtb is following Rush's lead and calling veterans that oppose the war "Phony".

Classy way to support the troops.

I'm pretty sure we would sealift out of Kuwait, if we were leaving, which we won't be.

Mantis, you're being petty. Is there a purpose for that? Have you accomplished something?

This tax - do they realize that it would affect all their wealthiest anti-war donors? Yep, that's the way to get their votes!

""We're going to take care of the troops. Period," he said."

How, Mr. Murtha? Can you clarify that?

Again and again it is proven by the left that they care NOT for the military. In this case, they are just a means to an end. ww

Barney:

I did not realize that Jessie McBeth qualifies as a veteran. I thought you had to finish basic before you could be called a veteran.

Or did you plug your ears and go "la la la la la" for the next three minutes after Rush said he did not like "phony soldiers."

Oyster, is it so hard for you to believe that there are rich people who don't mind paying high taxes? Limousine liberals, as they are so derided, are at least selfless enough to put their money where their mouths are.

If you think Iraq doesn't have beaches, you haven't been there. They are not great beaches, kind of dirty etc, but there are some. They also have some pretty good port facilities since they import and export huge amounts of materials by sea.

The White House doesn't care about the military:
"Operationally, British forces have performed poorly in Basra," said the official. "Maybe it's best that they leave. Now we will have a clear field in southern Iraq."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/03/nbrown603.xml

Way to slander your closest ally in the war. I guess Britain is no longer Bush's BFF.

Murtha "Congress could provide enough funds for basic needs through the annual defense appropriations bill currently under consideration."

Quick... someone tell me what are basic needs in a war?
Bullets? - Yes
Food? - Only MRE's (Meal Ready to Eat)
Boots? - Yes
Socks? - Yes
Toilet paper - No, take off your sock, use it to wipe your butt, wash it, rinse it, hang it off your helmet to let it air dry, reinstall on your foot.

I didn't know supporting the troops also had it's economical benefits

Well, I'm familiar with the ports at Basra and Umm Qasr, and I'm familiar enough with the logistics in Iraq and the reality of the situation there to know that if we did bug out (which, again, won't happen), it would be through Kuwait.

Mantis this is what you said...

Yeah, look at all those beaches.

Someone call Miss South Carolina, it looks like we have a victim of the map shortage here! implying that there were NO beaches from which to sealift from. I think you owe someone an apology...not holding my breath.

Dang, blockquote got messed up.
Mantis...

Yeah, look at all those beaches.

Someone call Miss South Carolina, it looks like we have a victim of the map shortage here!

implying that there were NO beaches from which to sealift from. I think you owe someone an apology...not holding my breath.

Well it looked right in the preview.

I didn't imply that there were no beaches, I implied that we would not be leaving through the small coastline that Iraq does have (you know, the one right on the map I linked to; it's next to Kuwait).

Mantis your comment at no. 7 implies that no. 6 needed a map for, I'm assuming what you implied as lack of geographic knowledge. You didn't bring Kuwait into the mix until comment no. 12. Yeah didn't think there'd be any honesty from you on this.

I'm assuming what you implied as lack of geographic knowledge.

His lack of knowledge extends beyond geography, but you'll notice that Kuwait is on the map, so if he had one he surely would have noticed it there. It's also, you know, the route we brought most of the equipment in through, but that would take a bit of knowledge of recent history, something he apparently lacks.

Yeah didn't think there'd be any honesty from you on this.

Well, judging from your comments, I think we can all expect continued stupidity from you.

hyperbolist, is that most of the wealthy have small armies of lawyers and accountants to keep their tax bill down?

Like Theresa Heinz - "embarrassed" to get tax breaks. Please. She took the cuts, didn't she? Kennedy could pay at the higher rate in Mass. He doesn't. If they want to give more, don't itemize. It's that simple.

I've no doubt there are some who don't mind. But they're a tiny minority in reality. Most talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

I'm not criticizing the wealthy because they have money. Many give considerably to charitable organizations. It's a noble thing to do. At least they get to pick who gets the money and how much. What I do criticize is the fact that even in some states where they can opt to pay at a higher rate, they don't, but harp about "tax cuts for the rich".

Don't get me wrong. I don't begrudge them any breaks on their tax bill. They work hard for their money, just like me. But they should spare me the rhetoric. It's a lot easier for a wealthy person to give even another third of their earnings (or to say they would) to the government than it is for others. They'd still live better than most of us. It's an exponential thing.

I notice you're addressing me directly suddenly. You like me, don't you?

That first sentence should read - is that *why* the wealthy...

I edited it and screwed it up.

Mantis said "I implied that we would not be leaving through the small coastline that Iraq does have."

Then you are implying we would leave all our heavy equipment behind, Mantis. How do you think it got there? Through Iraqi or Kuwaiti ports. It did not fly in. It did not go overland through Jordan (which also has a minuscule coastline), Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Iran. It came by sea.

Geeze. Every liberal seems to think you move armies using pixie dust or something.

I see Barney is lying again.

Why can't Murtha just ask his masters at PMA for the money?

Mark L,

Your ability to write is apparent, yet oddly your ability to read is not.

Poor old Craig. The country is being destroyed from within by the democrats in their childesh drive to regain power. More Americans have been killed in Iraq by the democrats support for the terrorist than anything else. Probably over 90% of the deaths put blood on all democrat politicians or voters hands. The blood 3 to 5 million in Southeast Asia wasn't enough for the democrats, they want more. Mental health professionals are going to be one busy group in coming years. I look at Murtha as a second coming of KKK Byrd who no competent mental health professional could rule anything other than so senile he's a danger to himself and everyone around him. Great leadership the democrats for the 11% + -5% (I'll bet on the -5%) that approve of them. No way over 5-6% of Americans are crazy enough to support the democrat led congress, hey that includes Murtha. I count three on here that are in the crazy 5%.

Murtha wants more of his own pork in the bill, then he'll pass it.

"Your ability to write is apparent, yet oddly your ability to read is not."

Thank-you mantis.

Let me say the same about your ability to read. I wish I could say the same about your ability to write.

But I cannot.

Murtha is a traitorous fuck.

Murtha is a seditious asshole.

Murtha is a corrupt piece of shit.

Murtha should be jailed for his crimes.

If Murtha and his buddies get this war tax, will they pay their fair share? I doubt it. The very wealthy won t pay a dime to help out. This tax will be paid by the working stiff, who pays all of the rest of taxes in this country. If the rich liberals do have to pay this tax, look for it to be repealed ASAP. Just as the boat tax was repealed when it hurt them more than it hurt the average Joe back in the 1980s.

Craig, seeing as how congress approval rating is the lowest in history, looks like it took you a matter of months to blow it.

Bwhahahahahahahah....

Libs lose. It's what they do.

More evidence that the right supports the troops:
JACKSONVILLE, Florida (CNN) -- Eduardo Gonzalez, a petty officer second class with the U.S. Navy, is about to be deployed overseas for a third time. Making his deployment even tougher is the fact his wife may not be around when he comes back.

Mildred and Eduardo Gonzalez worry about what would happen to their family if she is deported.

His wife faces deportation to Guatemala -- her home country that she hasn't seen since 1989. He also doesn't know what would happen to his young son, Eduardo Jr., if that happens.

"I like being in uniform and serving my country, but if she goes back I'm going to have to give it all up and just get out and take care of my son and get a job," he said.

Maybe Tancredo can personally throw the wife and child out of the country.

Mantis,

Well, judging from your comments, I think we can all expect continued stupidity from you.

Now why did you have to go get nasty? Did I touch a nerve? I just placed into question your ability to be honest about what you implied not question your intelligence. I once respected you and your opinions because you seemed to debate with reasoned intellect, guess I was wrong about you.

Barney, your comment is just as stupid as is usual for you.

Tom Tancredo does not control the immigration laws of the country. Blaming him for the current immigration problems of one individual is as stupid as your normal moronic comment.

The administration enforces the laws passed by congress, and even you know that the President has been advocating for amnesty for many illegal aliens. Current immigration law has changed little from when Democrats last controlled Congress or the Presidency.

Since your quoted story does not explain why she is facing deportation, we of course are without any idea of the facts.

Is there anything you can competently express an opinion on?

I've never met an Oyster I didn't like. You + me + a carafe of Chablis, baby. :)

spqr, it's conservatives like Tancredo that look at the illegal immigration problem in black and white. Here is a matter that is grey. A wife of one of our heros is facing deportation because she is illegal. Maybe Rush will start a grass-roots campaign asking for clemency so her husband can fulfill his duty. I doubt it.

Stay classy republicans.

The plan is working.

Time for a crib death.

I once respected you and your opinions because you seemed to debate with reasoned intellect,

Doesn't mean I have to cotton to fools.

guess I was wrong about you.

Cryin shame. Don't dwell on it too much. We all make mistakes.

Barney, your comments just illustrate your utter ignorance. Tancredo has nothing to do with the woman's immigration problems and your attempt to hang them on him is just borne of your hatred and has no rationality to it.

Mantis

Cryin shame. Don't dwell on it too much. We all make mistakes.

Well, don't worry I won't dwell on it and believe me I won't attempt to have an honest intelligent debate with you ever again. I learn from my mistakes Mantis. Pity we couldn't behave as an adults in this discussion.

The typical trolls here know that they are defending a liberal sewage typified by the vile lying hate groups like Moveon and Media Matters. That 's why they have to do the same: intentionally distract and distort since they know what a sewage they are trying to defend. The whole dem party (42 senators and their presidential candidates) is willing to participate in an intentional lie. This incident shows how the liberal left is like. The NYT (the liberal paper of record) is simply another comrade in arms with the shameless Media Matters, a Clinton front group.

If liberals are not fools, then they must be really shameless to support such a shameless party/movement.

No wonder the liberals want America to lose. AlQ is getting killed in Iraq, so Murtha will have to drum up the surrender talk now.

http://instapundit.com/archives2/010125.php

BETTER FOUR YEARS LATE THAN NEVER: "The Associated Press today reported that the two main groups organizing the antiwar protests on Iraq, ANSWER Coalition and Troops Out Now are associated with the communist World Workers Party."

He is just asking for in isnt he i mean POW RIGHT IN THE KISSER this bloted jackass is wanting someone to beat his brains in for being so arrogant TIME FOR THIS JACKASS TO GET HIS TAIL CUT OFF

"Republican War"? OH YA cuz the attack on 911 ONLY killed Republicans.
AL qaeda, the next time you attack the USA could you only hit Democrats please. We/Republicans are so tired of fighting OUR war. Time for Murtha and the rest of the libtards to step up.

Okay, first of all Knightbrigade, 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq - it was used as an excuse to go into Iraq, which you and all other uneducated Americans completely bought into.

Onto the actual article, though... Things in Iraq are NOT looking good and NOT improving. We're fighting a war to help people that don't want our help, don't like us, and want us out of their country. There is no clear distinction between friend and enemy. We're basically fighting blindly, and pissing away money that could be better spent actually helping people. It doesn't matter if we spend $600 billion more and 20 more years in Iraq, or if we pull out now - the result will be the same. Iraq will ALWAYS be a failed, chaotic state harboring and breeding terrorism and violence. The only way we could 'fix' that problem is if we were to kill everyone in the country, as harsh as that sounds. So, why not pull out now, save some time, money, and lives of our soldiers.

What it comes down to is this: We are taught history so that we don't make the same mistakes twice; so that we learn from the past. It's disconcerting how quickly many forget events from a few decades ago that nearly perfectly parallel events in our world today. Blinded by pseudo-patriotism as a result of the Bush Administration's campaign to exaggerate the threat of terrorism and amplify the fears of U.S. citizens in order to control them, most fail to realize that the war in Iraq is this decade's Vietnam. We're fighting a war that we can not win. We as a country need to deflate our ego, realize that not even we have the resources - monetary nor human - to emerge from this entirely victorious, and pull out before we lose much more.

Iraq will ALWAYS be a failed, chaotic state harboring and breeding terrorism and violence.
-------------------------------------
The same was said of Japan for example. Anyway, the dem party is now a party of intentional liars. Honest liberals would run away from the modern dem party and their lying hate groups like MoveON and Media Matters as fast as they can. Intelligent people should treat the dem political leaders as liars and shouldn't trust what they say. The liberal media (given the record of the NYT, the liberal paper of record) should be considered as liars as well. Sorry that we can believe the rhetoric from the modern left given that they are willing to engage in an intentional lie.

LAI--who ever said Japan was going to harbor and breed terrorism and violence? You're lying, which is ironic considering your barely coherent screed against the party of liars (a slur for which you provide no examples).

I once respected you and your opinions because you seemed to debate with reasoned intellect, guess I was wrong about you.

Yup, me too. I think it's because mantis looks so much more reasonable and intelligent than Barney, nogo and the rest of the moron brigades.

LAI--who ever said Japan was going to harbor and breed terrorism and violence? You're lying, which is ironic considering your barely coherent screed against the party of liars (a slur for which you provide no examples).
-------------------------------------
You never heard of Nankin 's massacre, didn't you? If you don't know that Media Matters and their democratic senators in Congress have just engaged in an intentional lie, then you really don't know what you are talking about. No wonder Hillary Clinton is the front runner in the Dem primary.

Oops, to help you out Joe: the liberals said the same thing abour imperial Japan not being able to become a functional democracy because of their culture.

The modern dem party is a party of intentional liars now. Run away from their sew*ge as fast as you can.

Like I've said many times before they are democrats not Americans and that is how they want it.

Joe,

Murtha was a man who fought for your right to smear him.

Unlike your president moron who skated on a free pass in the Guard. "childrens do learn"

Makes you feel proud doesn't it?

cb,
And that 's why you supported a known liar and draft dodger who presided over the killing of American women/children at Waco? And now you are proud to make his wife, the co-liar, the front runner of the Dem primary. You must love the Clinton culture of corruption and the vile hate from MoveON and Media Matters.

Also you supported Murtha 's slander of the US troops as "cold blooded" killers as well as other democratic liars?

What does the Rape of Nanking have to do with whether or not anybody predicted Japan to become a violent breeding ground for terrorists after WW II? LAI, you're so full of shit and vitriol that it makes me uncomfortable reading your bilious drivel. You need a new shtick, because your "crazy guy who thinks Hillary works for MediaMatters" routine is just weird.

hyperbole,
You are uncomfortable because you are supporting a corrupt party of intentional liars that have been lying for a long time. It is hard to be comfortable when you are supporting a known culture of corruption with the vile hate groups of Moveon and media matters. You make the pact with the known liars. So dethrone Hillary, then I believe you.

Again: what specific lies are you referring to? What does MoveOn have to do with Hillary Clinton? Also, how would I dethrone her? If she wasn't the perceived front runner for the Presidency, which Democratic candidate would you not accuse of being a corrupt liar? (I'm guessing none of them...?)

You were just making shit up when you said Japan was predicted to be a breeding ground for violence and terrorists after WW II. I'm uncomfortable because you won't admit that. Furthermore, what bloody sense does it make to compare the most racially/culturally homogeneous country on Earth to Iraq?

Oh, right: "Lies blah blah, Murtha blah blah, MoveOn blah blah, ergo, all Democrats are liars." I can't argue with you, LAI, when your comments fail to even resemble arguments.

Hyperbole,
Hillary Clinton didn't dare to condemn MoveOn hate. She helped found the lying hate org Media Matters.
Why are you so hateful that you are willing to support a dem party that willingly lie alongside the vile hate groups like MoveOn/Media Matters. Hillary and Bill Clinton are known corrupt liars. They presided over the killing of women/children at Waco? Why do you have America so much that you are willing to support such known liars and hate groups?

Oh, you want to know which Dem presidential candidates I would consider reasonable: those who had the courage to condemn MoveON hate and not signed onto the MediaMatters intentional lie.

You don't know how brutal imperial Japan was, then you really don't know what you are talking about. The liberals were lying that imperial Japan would not be able to become a functional democracy just like they are lying today. You have to abandon the truth when you are willing to support a party on liars.

I can't argue with you, LAI, when your comments fail to even resemble arguments.
-------------------------------------
You can't because you don't have the courage to face the truth that the DEm party has become a party of liars now. And you don't have the courage to abandon such a sew*age, so I cannot have an argument. You should be honest enough to admit that you are willing to accept all the garbage from the Dem party as long as they agree with you ideologically.

BTW,
Iran is the source of violence and terrorism in Iraq and around the world now. Do you support the US to do to Iran what we did to Japan to make sure that Japan was no longer a source of violence and terror? Be honest now!

WHAT "LIBERALS" SAID JAPAN COULD NOT BECOME A DEMOCRACY?! I'm quite sure that I know a hell of a lot more about far Eastern history and politics than you do, having lived, studied, and worked in that part of the world. I'm unaware of anybody who expected Japan to devolve into a quagmire during its reconstruction. Cite one fucking name to the contrary or shut up about it.

Hillary didn't condemn the offensive ad? Boo hoo. Dick Cheney didn't condemn genocide in Darfur while it was going on, but what's your point?

As for your throwaway comment about Iran--are you suggesting we nuke Iran to save Iran? Because if you are, you're crazy. Period. Comparing Iran to Japan is almost as stupid as comparing Japan to Iraq. You should read more, and think harder, before voicing your opinion on anything even loosely associated with politics.

"Oh, right: "Lies blah blah, Murtha blah blah, MoveOn blah blah, ergo, all Democrats are liars." I can't argue with you"

That's right stupid , you can't. You like your master criminal democrat leaders "are" LIARS. Every other day democrats are caught lying , pretend it didn't happen and go on to the next lie in mass. You too stupid to accept the truth or are you just a democrat lemming ? or both?

Hilary is a evil maniacal socialist pig and you have no problem with that. Good for you. Cheney is the Vice President and you have a problem with that. Too damn bad.

" before voicing your opinion on anything even loosely associated with politics"

Why don't you just STFU imbecile. IT only takes an hour and a half to receive your talking points or response. You meant voicing the facts about anything loosely associated with democrat criminal frauds of coarse.

Hyperbole,
You are so dishonest that you are trying to justify your support for a known corrupt liar like Hillary and her husband Bill Clinton.
You are simply trying to bluff to cover up your ignorance of imperial Japan and Iran. YOu didn't even dare to answer the question.
You are either too stupid or too shameless to run away from the party of liars, the dem party.

Rob,
MOveon runs an add calling the general in a the battlefield a liar and Hillary running for the job of commander in chief and not defending a general? Then Hyperbole turns around and lie about Cheney and Darfur. As I said, liberals have to lie to be able to justify their support for a party of liars.

Murtha fought for a right to slander? What an odd copy of the Constitution you have, CB.

It takes a special kind of dishonesty to say that pointing out Murtha's slander of Marines is a "smear".

Its not too late to grow up, CB.