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The Cult Of Victimhood

One particular political tactic I have been growing more and more sick of is the use of victims to push political agendas. While it is certainly true that some people can certainly better attest to certain facts than others, it's growing more and more common for those victims to become conflated with their causes, to the point where disagreeing with their agenda is seen as "attacking the victims."

The discussion of young Mr. Frost and his pushing for the expansion of the SCHIP program is but the latest example. How does one explain to a 12-year-old such notions as the rightful role of the federal government in providing welfare, economic cutoffs, age limitations, tradeoffs, and fiscal responsibility? What he knows is he was hurt badly, and Mom and Dad say that this government program helped him get better. So it would be good if more people could be helped by it.

But Mr. Frost is hardly the first person to be used as cover for a political agenda. This is by no means a comprehensive list, but merely the ones that spring to mind;

Jim Brady, Ronald Reagan's press secretary, for gun control.

Cindy Sheehan, mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, she of "absolute moral authority" fame, against the war in Iraq.

Representative Carolyn McCarthy, widow of one of Colin Ferguson's victims, crusader for gun control.

Michael J. Fox, Parkinson's Disease sufferer, for stem cell research.


The strategy seems to be this: identify a person with the cause. Then, it's just a simple progression: disagreeing with the cause becomes disagreeing with the person. Then it's just a short hop to make that "attacking" the person, and attacking a victim is a heinous deed indeed.

It seems that the best way to win the support from certain factions is to be a victim. Note the anti-war crowd seems to think that the best way to "support the troops" is to portray them as victims: they are poor, disadvantaged young men and women who joined the military out of economic necessity, who saw service as their only way to get ahead in the world, who were lied to and deceived by recruiters, who need to be protected from harm by bringing them back home.

I have issues. I have problems. In a lot of ways, I could probably make a good case that I, too, am a "victim" and try to seize some kind of moral high ground.

But I won't.

It's odd where you learn ideas and concepts, and where they end up applying. One of the most profound lessons I ever learned was in a creative writing class. The professor had a technique that shaped a great deal of my thinking. Each student would distribute copies of their work, read it to the class, and then sit there and shut up while the rest of the class critiqued it. They were not allowed to say a single word defending or explaining their piece.

The idea was simple: the work had to stand -- or fail -- on its own. The author could not go around and discuss just what he intended with every single reader, so this was a way of teaching the author to make the piece as strong as possible before "releasing" it.

From that, I learned the idea that my ideas have to stand or fail on their own. I go out of my way to avoiding claiming any particular expertise, any level of authority, any Sledge Hammer-style "trust me, I know what I'm doing." I don't want to see my arguments and positions discredited because of any of my failings; they're more important than I am.

A lot of prominent people (including Harry Reid's staff, who apparently brought a 12-year-old boy into DC at 6 a.m. to read a script they prepared for him to rebut Bush's veto of the SCHIP bill) could stand to spend a bit of time in my old professor's class.


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Comments (64)

Now why didn't <a href="htt... (Below threshold)
Veeshir:

Now why didn't I think of that?

Nice list of liberal causes... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Nice list of liberal causes Jay. I guess you forgot about Freedom Watch"?
Why don't you check-out a couple of their ads:

The Wroblewski family lost their son 2nd Lt. John Wroblewski when he died of injuries received from hostile fire in Anbar province, Iraq on April 7th 2004. Listen to why his family believes Victory is America's only choice.

Iraq war veteran John Kriesel lost both legs in a blast near Fallujah on December 2nd, 2006. It was near the end of his second tour. Listen to why John believes Victory is America's only choice.

http://www.freedomswatch.org/tabid/73/default.aspx

If your idea were followed,... (Below threshold)
Rance:

If your idea were followed, it would be the end of "Face the Nation", Meet the Press", et al.

Both sides use these shows to promote their programs to the public, rather than letting them stand or fail on their own merits.

Jay,I think the bo... (Below threshold)

Jay,

I think the bottom line is, its whose agenda the people are pushing. Agendas being in the eye of the beholder.

Bill

I agree with you, Jay. We a... (Below threshold)
Candy:

I agree with you, Jay. We all have issues. We've all been victimized. I was molested as a kid for three years by a trusted member of the family. I was naive enough that I believed when I was told my family would be killed if I spoke up.

I could spend all kinds of time pissing and moaning about it. Honestly, it's helped out a lot of people, because I'm not afraid to speak up and tell people to warn their kids about predators - especially the ones they know and trust. I actually told my kids "NO ONE can touch you like that. Even if I were the one moltesting you, you are to TELL SOMEONE ELSE you trust so that it will STOP."

Not sure how I'd feel if one of my kids died in combat. There are not words to describe it, I'm sure. However, I would like to think I'd feel a lot better about my son or daughter dying for the cause of Freedom rather than being killed by a drunk driver.

Once again, all situations can be turned from lemons into lemonade if you have the mindset for it.

Hence the phony soldiers...... (Below threshold)

Hence the phony soldiers... a shallow attempt to assert absolute moral authority. No matter how misrepresentative the advocacy, if you dare dissent, they smear you as bigot and a hater.

"One particular political t... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"One particular political tactic I have been growing more and more sick of is the use of victims to push political agendas."

What's the matter Jay? Do you have something against the 1st Amendment?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

I guess the Republicans are not trashing the Constitution fast enough for you.

Well, this is not a big iss... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

Well, this is not a big issue with me. I figure most spokespeople for any cause have some strong interest in that cause for moral, ethical, personal, financial reasons - whatever. It would be cool however to learn how much these people are compensated for their testimonials, though. I actually understand the point Barney is trying to make here because it is a modus that is used for both liberal and conservative causes. But the kid for the SCHIP program was a real stretch in advocacy. A kid with a brain tumor asking for more money for childhood cancer research???? Makes sense to me.

Man, Barney, you just can't... (Below threshold)

Man, Barney, you just can't settle for the conventional definitions. You gotta go out and set whole new standards for dumb.

Show me ONE PLACE where I said the government ought to make ANYTHING illegal, or that the government should suppress ANYONE'S speech.

If anything, Barney, you're trying to suppress MY right to speak freely in denouncing their tactics.

Entirely typical, Barney. "You need to be shut up in the name of free speech!"

J.

You forgot one; Terri Schia... (Below threshold)
Rich:

You forgot one; Terri Schiavo. Oh wait, it was the republicants that rolled her hospital bed out in front of the cameras...

"What's the matter Jay? ... (Below threshold)

"What's the matter Jay? Do you have something against the 1st Amendment?"

Barney, when did you stop beating your wife?

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Nice list of liberal causes Jay. I guess you forgot about Freedom Watch"?
Why don't you check-out a couple of their ads:

Ignorance ignored.

What's the matter Jay? Do you have something against the 1st Amendment?

Shear stupidity ignored.

Am I the only one impressed... (Below threshold)

Am I the only one impressed that B2k's brain has enough power to keep him breathing?

You forgot one; Terri Sc... (Below threshold)
Veeshir:

You forgot one; Terri Schiavo. Oh wait, it was the republicants that rolled her hospital bed out in front of the cameras..

You know, I had a whole comment written about how it was totally different (even though I was one of the ones who thought that it was none of the Federal gov't's business and got lambasted on that by a bunch of righty bloggers and commenters), but then, I reallized my arguments were unpersuasive and that it was actually apt.

Back during that brouhaha, I would write, "Am I the only one who thinks this is none of our business?" and get some "Me too" responses and a whole lot of "Why do you want to kill her?" responses.
That looks pretty similar in spirit if not in facts to the Absolute Moral Authority Card in that both use the victim-hood status of the subject to try to shut down debate.

I don't like it when lefties do it and I don't like it even more when the right does it. That deal made the religious right look like the frothingest Kwazy Kos Kid and it wasn't pretty.

When MM went after a kid in... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

When MM went after a kid in grade school...grade school.. folks...her spew even appeared on wizbang..
You all want to go after Cindy Sheehan? Fine she's is an adult. Posters here went gotcha on his private school cost before finding out all but $500.00 was scholarship.

Is this where some of you want to be? He is in grade school. Can a grade school kid be picked on?
You bet....if you are in grade school also....

Jay once wrote an e-mail to me regarding a post I made concerning hypocrites and Dick Cheney's daughter. His point was Cheney and politicians are fair game. Their sons and daughters should not be.

Jay was right. I have not made any similar posts.

If people disagree with the Schip Bill. Call your Senators and Rep. who voted for it and give them an earful.

Attacks by MM and even here on a grade school kid only make the point. Republicans don't care about kids.

Michael J. Fox, Parkinso... (Below threshold)

Michael J. Fox, Parkinson's Disease sufferer, for stem cell research.

One should add that Parkinson's researchers give Fox a lot of credit for his non-government, private efforts at furthering their intercommunication and research. He is not another Christopher Reeves; Fox's influence has definitely been constructive.

Well the right is at a disa... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Well the right is at a disadvantage. While the left can plea for sick kids, homeless Vets or grieving mothers what does the right have?

CEO's of big tobacco, insurance, energy or Haliburton loosing their bonuses? Maybe you can get Rush to cry about how much more his cigars will cost if the SCHIP tobacco tax is enacted?

Maybe they can still get some mileage out of Terry Shiavo. Didn't she pay for her own care even though she was brain dead. Maybe they can get Tony Snow to discuss how he went and got a better paying job when his $160K/year one couldn't cover his medical costs?

Both fine examples for the Frosts.

The lefties are in high dud... (Below threshold)

The lefties are in high dudgeon - which, I know is difficult to discern sometimes, since they never evince less than medium-low dudgeon - because the child was selected as the prop/TV spokesmodel for the precise reason they believed him unassailable.

Here is a question for the leftists who are so upset: IF this child's family are "working" people who are so in need of assistance, should they and others with like incomes qualify for tax cuts?

Any democrats up for a li... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

Any democrats up for a little "DIALOG" ?


"There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city
of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one
American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq



When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state
the following:



a. A democrat, FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us ; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were
lost ... an average of 112,500 per year.

c. A democrat, Truman finished that war and started one in Korea

North Korea never attacked us . From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 18,334 per year.

d A democrat, John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam
never attacked us.

e. A democrat, Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975,
58,000 lives were lost .. an average of 5,800 per year.

f. A democrat, Bill Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French
consent. Bosnia never attacked us . He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on
a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on
multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated
two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear
inspectors in Libya , Iran , and, North Korea without firing a shot, and
captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking.

But Wait

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch
Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation..



We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons

in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm
billing records.

It took less time for the 3r d Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy
the Medina Republican Guard than it took a democrat, Ted Kennedy to call the
police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to the democrats to count and
re-count the votes in Florida!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts

But Wait

There's more!

JOHN GLENN (on the Senate floor - January 26, 2004)

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do
for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard
Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu
speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and
women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served
think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn): "How can you run for Senate
when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): "I served 23 years in the United States Marine
Corps.

I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by
anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It
wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a
nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to
the bank."

"I ask you to go with me as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital
and look those men ... with their mangled bodies, in the eye, and tell THEM
they didn't hold a job!

You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the
widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you
look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery,
where I have more friends buried than I 'd like to remember, and you watch
those waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those
people didn't have a job?

What about you?"

For those who don't remember During WW II, Howard Metzenbaum, a democrat was
an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

Now he's a democratic Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English
thank a Veteran.

It might not be a bad idea to keep this circulating. I AM!!!"

SAY NO MORE! WE DON'T NEED DEMOCRAT PROTECTION , WE NEED PROTECTION FROM DEMOCRATS.


Holy off-topic Batman. ... (Below threshold)
Veeshir:

Holy off-topic Batman.

Gee rob if you want to hija... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Gee rob if you want to hijack the tread how about discussion:
Bush leaking sensitive intelligence that tipped off OBL
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/08/AR2007100801817.html

The top Iraqi official says reconciliation is not possible (Then why are we there).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/07/AR2007100701448.html

The Brits are pulling out, but we can't event though they are seeing greater success by withdrawing than we are seeing by surging.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec07/basra_09-03.html

The Saudis are releasing 55 terrorists recently shipped over from Gitmo for a holiday and given $2,600 to blow.
http://www.star-telegram.com/468/story/259474.html

Nogo proves this point:</... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

Nogo proves this point:

"Attacks by MM and even here on a grade school kid only make the point. Republicans don't care about kids."

If you are a democrat, you can talk out your ass, lie through your teeth and when you are caught , simply whine like a baby and we lying democrats will run to your rescue and battle the Republican FACTS and TRUTH with our patented blatant lies.

Hey nogo why don't you provide some proof or evidence for stupid shit you say. Better yet why you just STFU.

Democrats detest children so much they can't even wait till they are born to kill them. Those that do manage to the survive and evade the vacuum of death must endure years of democrat molestations as they rape their soul and infect their mind with the democrats disease.

NOGO is one of those poor souls that did not survive into adulthood. Now he is after the minds of your children , lock the doors , close the windows and disconnect your internet access, NOGO is on the prowl.

"The Cult Of Victimhood" ... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"The Cult Of Victimhood"

I post something you couldn't refute if your life depended on it and now you are crying like a baby.

"Gee rob if you want to hijack the tread"

Waaaa!

"The Cult of Victimhood"

"The Saudis are releasing 5... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"The Saudis are releasing 55 terrorists recently shipped over from Gitmo for a holiday and given $2,600 to blow."

What are you telling me for? The Saudi's are only doing what you democrat dummies were whining and crying for. What , another democrat flip flop?

I see Rob is bringin teh cr... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I see Rob is bringin teh crazy today.

democrats will run to your rescue and battle the Republican FACTS and TRUTH with our patented blatant lies.

Republican "FACTS and TRUTH" like those in the email someone forwarded to you and you pasted above? That garbage has been floating around the internet for two years now (not the John Glenn speech; that's real, and from 1974, but the rest of it is just some crap someone tacked onto his speech). Of course this is not the first time you've pasted ridiculous crap you got in your email (or from some lunatic's blog). What's next, "send this to ten friends or bad luck will befall you?"

Democrats detest children so much they can't even wait till they are born to kill them.

And Republicans believe in a right to life that begins at conception and ends at birth.

""There were 39 combat rela... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

""There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city
of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one
American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq"

Rob, were did you get your numbers from? Are trying to compare death rates of US citizens in Detroit to only US soldiers in Iraq? How about all persons killed in Iraq compared to those that were killed in Detroit?

Anyway your fact is crap. Here are the US and civilian war related deaths (does not include plan old murder like your Detroit stats) for the month of Jan (source, Iraq Casualty):

2004 US = 47, Iraqi NA
2005 US = 105, Iraqi = 109
2006 US = 62, Iraqi = 783
2007 US = 83, Iraqi = 1802

Democrats detest chil... (Below threshold)
Veeshir:

Democrats detest children so much they can't even wait till they are born to kill them.

And Republicans believe in a right to life that begins at conception and ends at birth.

I don't fully agree with either party about those two issues, but I have to admit, I'm much more comfortable with people who want to save the innocent and kill the guilty than I am hanging out with people who want to kill the innocent and let the guilty go free.

Democrats the party of c... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

Democrats the party of criminal frauds and child molesters for political gain. It is now a matter of historic fact. It's a done deal you cannot undo it. Which is why the dirty , despicable and dishonest democrats "ARE" the party of "PERPETUAL FRAUD".

It is why you are here NOGO.

It is why you are here Barney.

You criminal frauds will never go out into the "Real World" to help , assist in any way shape or form the things you cry about here. Not one finger you will lift for the "GOOD OF COMMON MAN, however you will lift all ten of your fingers in support for the worse , the most grotesquely perverted , immoral evil and maniacal shameless cowards on this planet.

Repeat after me :

WE ARE DEMOCRATS

SOCIAL SECURITY BELONGS TO US

WE MUST SAY ANYTHING

WE MUST DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES

WE MUST GET TO WHERE WE BELONG , IN POWER.

DEMOCRATS LIE BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST TOO LAZY TO TELL THE TRUTH.

This topic is about victims... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

This topic is about victims and "young Mr. Frost"

Well maybe in your neck of the woods you all address grade school kids with Mr. and use their last name...

Again...MM and all those hold her in esteem as someone who speaks to them....
Humiliating a 12 year old is not America.
Humiliating a 12 year old who still recovers from injuries severed in an auto crash...that were/are being covered by Schip is not America...

or maybe it is?
I hope you folks have a son or daughter 11 or twelve...or a neighbor that age...
or the next time you are in a store and see one that age...

MM posted a kid's address.
So yes...by appearing in a Dem radio message telling how Schip benefited him. "Young Mr. Frost is fair game?
Anyone who thinks a 12 year old kid is fair game is not unlike a pedophile.

"And Republicans believe in... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"And Republicans believe in a right to life that begins at conception and ends at birth."

Uh , could ya explain this in more detail please. I have a feeling your trying to say something , do tell.

nogo:Attacks b... (Below threshold)
marc:

nogo:

Attacks by MM and even here on a grade school kid only make the point. Republicans don't care about kids.

How was the kids "attacked?" At worst his parents were were nitwit.

Bagdad barney:

Maybe they can get Tony Snow to discuss how he went and got a better paying job when his $160K/year one couldn't cover his medical costs?

Show me a quote saying Snow couldn't pay his medical costs.

You're making shit up.

"Humiliating a 12 year old ... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"Humiliating a 12 year old is not America."

Who did this?

"by appearing in a Dem radio message telling how Schip benefited him"

What I heard was a little kid reading something a spineless democrat held out in front of him to read. The American Public are getting sick and tired of stupid gutless lying democrats attacking Our President and our Country. Those cowardly democrats know they they are making an ass of themselves yet are so full of hate for the Man whose position their "COVET" they will molest a child to do their evil bidding.

"anyone who thinks a 12 year old kid is fair game is not unlike a pedophile"

So you are correct when you say this. Democrats are pedophiles. This isn't News by the way I'm just glad to see your finally coming around and recognize what your party is willing to do for political gain.

Well Rob, I don't think I c... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Well Rob, I don't think I can put it into the email-forward full of crazy-ass "Republican FACTS and TRUTH" form that you're used to.

It's an old Barney Frank line, and it essentially means that most pro-lifers are very concerned with the well-being of a fetus, but don't care much about protecting the child after he/she is born. In this instance, of course, I'm referring to those who oppose expanding the SCHIP program to cover at least 4 million currently uninsured children. This is not all Republicans, in fact many of them support the expansion, so really my crack was unfair to them.

RobLACal go away, you're ma... (Below threshold)
marc:

RobLACal go away, you're making an even larger fool than normal.

Making 'stuff' up marc? It... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Making 'stuff' up marc? It was the rightwing bloggers (Freepers) and radio (Rush) that made 'stuff' up about the Frost's such as owning a $400K+ home and spending $40K/year on their kids' education.

mantis,In this... (Below threshold)
marc:

mantis,

In this instance, of course, I'm referring to those who oppose expanding the SCHIP program to cover at least 4 million currently uninsured children.

What is your definition of "children?"

Mine, and I suspect it's pretty close to most peoples, is anyone under the age of 18.

The SCHIP program bill would extend coverage to those reaching the age of 25, it should be sh*tcanned on that basis alone, never mind all the rest of the falderal.

Baghdad barney:You... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

You avoided the question... as expected. Join RobLACal and hit the exit door and try another day.

"ridiculous crap"<p... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"ridiculous crap"

What is ridiculous?

Something you cannot even begin to disprove?

You think those stats are ridiculous?

I did not post it to try and argue its accuracy. The numbers are irrelevant. They could be 25% lower or higher in my opinion because I have been in those garages , I have seen the ak-47s with 60 round clips ducted taped together.

If you think they are ridiculous , take it up with the LA Times. Tell us some of the things democrats say that you find ridiculous when they say them. That shouldn't be terribly difficult.

What is ridiculous is you haven't a care in the world for this Country. Your attempts to dismiss facts you cannot argue that also conflict with the 24 hour doom and gloom democrats put out proves you just don't care.

"I did not post it to try a... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"I did not post it to try and argue its accuracy." by roblacal

rob that is a good summation for everything you have posted.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

rob that is a good summation for everything you have posted.

Pot say hello to the black kettle.

"I have seen the ak-47s wit... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"I have seen the ak-47s with 60 round clips ducted taped together." by rob

Really rob? Two 60-round clips taped together? Where did you see this? Or, is this another story where the accuracy is not important, or is it the number (of rounds per clip) that is irrelevant?

Still waiting for the Snow ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Still waiting for the Snow quotes stating he's leaving his 160k per year job because of medical bills Baghdad barney.

Having trouble figuring out that bookmark thingy in your browser?

If you think they are ri... (Below threshold)
mantis:

If you think they are ridiculous , take it up with the LA Times.

Man, you are dumb, aren't you? As I pointed out to you at the time, those figures were not from the LA Times. From Snopes:

The various figures quoted above were not taken from a 2002 Los Angeles Times article. They appear to have been gleaned from a variety of sources and vary in accuracy as noted below:

Your attempts to dismiss facts you cannot argue

I dismiss "facts" which you get in your inbox and dutifully paste here, regardless of where they came from or how accurate they are. You, on the other hand, believe every lunatic screed the internet has to offer.

Who is responsible for a ... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

Who is responsible for a child until the age of 18?

Where in the constitution does it state the Government is responsible for the raisng of a child?

What the fuck is your problem marc? You got a problem with me ? Spit it out. I don't talk shit to you yet you want me quiet. I thought only democrats what to stifle free speech. You are being an arrogant jerk and if you don't approve of me , tuff shit that is your problem.
I'm not going modify my behavior or speech just to please you ear. This is what you get from me in LA Cal.

RoBLACal:What ... (Below threshold)
marc:

RoBLACal:

What the fuck is your problem marc? You got a problem with me ? Spit it out.

Yeah, you're a raving lunatic who does more to harm "the right side" than you're mentally capable of giving to any argument.

And as mantis just pointed out you post the most easily debunked garbage possible.

I'm talking about the fac... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

I'm talking about the facts that extinguish or at the very least show democrats rhetoric as being emotion based as a desperate tactic to get elected.

The Waco disaster in comparison. The death toll hear in this Country as opposed to that in Iraq and how the media is one sided as if you didn't know.

"Southern California is saturated."

What the hell are ya talking about? There's no stinking problem here.

From the L.A. Times...."

You want to wastes more time on this when I was only being sarcastic to begin with?

Gee rob, first you wrote (r... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Gee rob, first you wrote (regarding factuality of your comments) that accuracy was not important, then you wrote that numbers were irrelevant and now you wrote "I was only being sarcastic"?

So, when you wrote that you saw somebody taping 60-round AK-47 clips together were you being inaccurate, irrelevant or sarcastic?

Quotes Baghdad barney, quot... (Below threshold)
marc:

Quotes Baghdad barney, quotes. Where are they?

"And as mantis just pointed... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"And as mantis just pointed out you post the most easily debunked garbage possible."

Oh so my attempt and intention of sarcasm is now subject to debunking for the sole purpose of questioning my honesty.

"And as mantis just pointed... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"And as mantis just pointed out you post the most easily debunked garbage possible."

Oh so my attempt and intention of sarcasm is now subject to debunking for the sole purpose of questioning my honesty.

As if I was trying to mislead.

Oh so my attempt a... (Below threshold)
marc:
Oh so my attempt and intention of sarcasm is now subject to debunking for the sole purpose of questioning my honesty.
Um... well yes.

And there is no questioning your honesty, those that have been reading your nonsensical screeds for any length of time know it is suspect.

"Quotes Baghdad barney, quo... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"Quotes Baghdad barney, quotes. Where are they?"

marc, I wrote this: "Maybe they can get Tony Snow to discuss ..".

"They" is not "me". Tony said he had to quit for financial reasons. Tony was on the job for about 16-months. The only change during that time was his reoccurrence of cancer. The financial reasons could only be:
A) he has medical costs
B) he is dying and wants to provide for his family before he goes.

He has already stated that his cancer is in remission, so it can't be "B", but even if it was (I hope it is not) it would still be a good example for the Frost's that Tony sacrificed the job he loved that only paid $160K/year for a higher paying job to provide for his family.

Either way "they" should get Tony to state this so you can use it against all poor kids that are looking for a handout instead of a job.

Isn't that what the righwringers are complaining about? Mr. Frost should have closed his business (what happened to Bush's ownership society?) and get a higher paying job, or they should have aborted the kids they couldn't afford, or sold their home and become homeless to pay for insurance?

Gee rob if you wan... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

Gee rob if you want to hijack the tread how about discussion:
Bush leaking sensitive intelligence that tipped off OBL
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/08/AR2007100801817.html

The top Iraqi official says reconciliation is not possible (Then why are we there).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/07/AR2007100701448.html

The Brits are pulling out, but we can't event though they are seeing greater success by withdrawing than we are seeing by surging.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec07/basra_09-03.html

The Saudis are releasing 55 terrorists recently shipped over from Gitmo for a holiday and given $2,600 to blow.
http://www.star-telegram.com/468/story/259474.html

My ridiculous post certainly elicited my desired response except I though it would be from Barney not Nogo.

Oh and tell me Barney, what is 30 x 2. That's all I have to say on that subject matter.

"Oh and tell me Barney, wha... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"Oh and tell me Barney, what is 30 x 2. That's all I have to say on that subject matter." rob

So, you admit that you lied when you wrote: "I have seen the ak-47s with 60 round clips ducted taped together."


That is 60 x 2!

Off topic alert!Lo... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

Off topic alert!

Lou Dobbs just said that Bush belongs in a special place in hell!

You want to wastes more ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

You want to wastes more time on this when I was only being sarcastic to begin with?

Crazy as he is, at least Rob is good for a laugh.

Amen.... (Below threshold)
Deas:

Amen.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Tony was on the job for about 16-months. The only change during that time was his reoccurrence of cancer. The financial reasons could only be:
A) he has medical costs
B) he is dying and wants to provide for his family before he goes.

Bingo! #2 is probably the closest you've come to the truth in a dogs age.

#1 is pure unadulterated moonbattery. For anyone to think he would be an employee of the White House and not have Gov. provided health insurance is living on the edge of LaLa Land.

Isn't that what the righwringers are complaining about? Mr. Frost should have closed his business (what happened to Bush's ownership society?) and get a higher paying job, or they should have aborted the kids they couldn't afford, or sold their home and become homeless to pay for insurance?

Um, no. The vast majority are complaining about the use of children in a political setting and it matters little if it is the Frosts or some of the whacko that drag their 5 year old to Code Pink rallies adorned in pink carrying the latest moonbat mantra signage, or the religious nutcakes doing the same over abortion.

The rest of your nonsensical screed is just that, nonsensical, with the exception of the Frosts selling their house.

I along with many more feel that could have very easily sold it, remember it's not worth 55k any longer, it's valued at 300k or better.

They could have taken the profits downsized their accommodations and paid the medical bills.

However they didn't and won't because they are in full support of free Gov paid health insurance for everyone and allowed themselves to become shills for Shillary and the rest that support that boondoggle.

And finally, Baghdad, the SCHIP bill as purposed allows coverage for people with ages up to 25 years of age.

When are "children" not children any longer Baghdad?

Lou Dobbs just said tha... (Below threshold)
marc:

Lou Dobbs just said that Bush belongs in a special place in hell!

It would take a future resident to know who should join him I guess.

Assuming there is such a place and Earth isn't already it.

"Um, no. The vast majority ... (Below threshold)
BarneyG2000:

"Um, no. The vast majority are complaining about the use of children in a political setting.." marc

Right marc, that is what Rush Michelle and the others are so upset about. Get real!

"And finally, Baghdad, the SCHIP bill as purposed allows coverage for people with ages up to 25 years of age.

When are "children" not children any longer Baghdad?"

SCHIP allows limited exceptions that cover some adults like pregnant women. Whey do you want to deny prenatal healthcare to poor women and their unborn babies? I guess you would prefer to have the women abort their babies like one Reihl implied ("..despite what I might assume is a liberal view on abortion, not only most likely support that free choice;..)

You are a heartless bastard.

Baghdad barney:<em... (Below threshold)
marc:

Baghdad barney:

Right marc, that is what Rush Michelle and the others are so upset about. Get real!

You're being the "unreal" one by trying to imply Rush and Malkin are a vast majority, the term I used.

Not that you really care beyond your usual demagoguery, this is what she has said:

What is verifiable: The Frosts own a home in Baltimore purchased for $55,000 16 years ago - and now worth an estimated $300,000. That's a lot of equity. In addition, the children's father, Halsey Frost, owns commercial real estate and his own small business, but chose not to buy health insurance for himself and his wife, whom he hired as an employee. She now apparently works freelance at a medical-publishing firm, which also reportedly doesn't offer insurance.

Gemma and Graeme both attend costly private schools; the Frosts have two other school-age children. Reid's staff says Gemma and Graeme get tuition breaks. But it's not clear when those scholarships were instituted and/or whether the other two receive tuition aid. Moreover, Frost's family comes from considerable means. The children's maternal grandfather was an engineering executive. Their paternal grandparents hail from affluent Bronxville, N.Y., where the grandfather is a prominent consultant.

MORE of Baghdad's nonsense:

SCHIP allows limited exceptions that cover some adults like pregnant women. Whey do you want to deny prenatal healthcare to poor women and their unborn babies? I guess you would prefer to have the women abort their babies like one Reihl implied ("..despite what I might assume is a liberal view on abortion, not only most likely support that free choice;..)
No nitwit, "poor women," you know those at or below the poverty line, are covered by medicaid.

Of course that's aside from the fact poor women should keep their damn pants on until they can afford to get pregnant.

Gotta love how this MT them... (Below threshold)
marc:

Gotta love how this MT theme butchers the blockquote tag! NOT!

It could be that Reid felt ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

It could be that Reid felt his voice was too closely associated with his defeatist chants, he employed a child to do the talking instead. Well, as a change of pace from the irritating Caulking Gun.

"So, you admit that you lie... (Below threshold)
RobLACal:

"So, you admit that you lied when you wrote: "I have seen the ak-47s with 60 round clips ducted taped together."

Huh? What? I have no idea what you are talking about. I did not have intimate knowledge of that gun, ak-47.




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