For all you Alpha Males out there -- how would you advise these women to finally be able to keep a man?

For starters, they should remove the seventeen metric assload chip from their alpha shoulder.

If I were dating now and I came across one of these alpha females, I'd be very tempted to say something like "I don't know why women bother to have careers" just to see her reaction. If she ends the relationship over that, then it would save us both some time.

Disclaimer: My wife of > 10 years is very ALPHA! But she does not carry a chip on her shoulder. She will debate when challenged and stand her ground. She is a corporate executive and has worked our entire relationship.

Here's the fact of the matter: there are many men who are intimidated by women who have degrees from "better" colleges, or "better" jobs. A friend of mine - a Penn grad - had many experiences where men at clubs backed off after learning she went to school (typically revealed when they'd ask her and her girlfriend how they met). After this happened 5 - 6 times, she would change the subject if schooling came up.

But the real problem is that women typically want men who make at least as much as them, whereas those men don't care about how much their women make. Thus, the supply of "higher earners" is depleted by "lower earning" women.

The problem would vanish if professional women were interested in dating and marrying men who make less (the "Miranda arc" of Sex in the City dramatizing this decision) but generally speaking, they're not. Hence, they don't have many men to choose from. And once they hit 30, it gets much tougher.

The other issue is that there is an inverse correlation between education and the desire to have kids. Anecdotally, the higher the degree, the less desire a woman has to procreate. Most professional women I know (MDs, MBAs, lawyers, engineers in management, etc.) believe that kids would get in the way of their desired career paths, ruin their bodies, etc. That's not going to work for men who'd like to have families. And men who don't want families typically don't want to get married.

Selfishness is the way to loneliness.

"If I were dating now and I came across one of these alpha females, I'd be very tempted to say something like "I don't know why women bother to have careers" just to see her reaction. If she ends the relationship over that, then it would save us both some time."

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the very intent of the man depicted in the linked article.

I have to agree with Sheik, but I'll go a bit further.

I like strong women. I don't like bitches.

There is a difference. These women sound like bitches. Overbearing, arrogant, chip on their shoulder and a bone to pick because they want their alpha-ness acknowledged at every turn.

There's another possibility.

Suppose this fellow - obviously also a successful and intelligent person - made the remark to get a reaction. Isn't that what first dates are all about? Getting to know the other person better? He surely didn't expect a successful woman in a highly-paid and competitive field to agree with his statement.

She could have engaged him in a conversation about it, either seriously or, more in keeping with "first date protocol," by starting a friendly banter. They might have shared a laugh or two, and who knows?

Instead, "Clare" heard words which contradicted her closely-held paradigm of politically correct feminist bromides, and immediately scratched him off her list. In this scenario, it was HER closed-mindedness, not his, which ruins any chance of a relationship.

"Clare" had a mental picture of her "soul-mate," with every detail filled in before she ever met this chap. The minute he went outside her carefully-drawn outline, she discards him.

I wish her luck finding "Mr. Right," she is going to need it.

I went and read the whole article from which you took the excerpt and did not have nearly the same negative reaction.

For example, it seems that the problem was that Clare simply did not consider that man a high enough Alpha!

Look at what "she said" later:

"If I met the right man, I would give up my job and stay at home to look after our children," says Clare, who lives in a three-bed flat in Chelsea, West London.

"But the problem is finding him. The type of traditional man I like - someone equally successful or more successful than me - often has a big ego to match and sees a woman like me as too much of a challenge."

So, per the author's theme, Beta fems want a successful Alpha man to take care of them. Similarly, Clare wants "the right man" who is "equally successful [jim2 snide ed., "sure!"] or MORE successful than" her. [caps added for emphasis] So she's willing to play the Beta, but only to a strong or - more likely - stronger and more successful Alpha.

Later in the article, the author quotes "Nicola" as saying that maybe Alpha fems would be happier just marrying Beta men. That seems fair. However, note the disconnect in criticizing that Alpha guys might prefer Beta fems while saying that Alpha fems might be better with Beta guys. You think that maybe Alpha guys have learned that already?

The article concludes with the advice that Aplpha fems need to learn to compromise - not unhealthy, and not at all in conflict with what you said.

jim2 - neither Greek letter and happily married to another neither

Maybe these alpha women should just give up on finding a compatible mate.

Too bad - no one promised them a perfect life. They made their decisions, they have to live with them now.

For all you Alpha Males out there -- how would you advise these women to finally be able to keep a man?

I suggest they read The Proper Care & Feeding of a Marriage by Dr. Laura Schlessinger and follow its advice.

After a (mutually) broken engagement, I realized that in order to find the right person, I needed to be the right person. Clare doesn't seem to have done a lot of introspection in that regard, just presuming at first blush that men are intimidated by her success. Men are turned off by the wall she has buitl. Instead of looking for a man who is successful, how about looking for a man who is caring, kind, and generous?

I also have never (yes, never) met a single man who wanted a girlfriend or wife who would just smile and nod and do whatever he wanted.

I had a relationship once with a woman who was willing to do whatever she had to to make me happy. Ultimately, the relationship imploded. It became incredibly boring always getting my way. I started picking fights just to stir things up. Needless to say, that doomed it.

For All Your Relationship Problems, this will help nearly any relationship


I am only putting this here because it has saved my marriage.

There are two main books to read.

"His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage" by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman.

I know that the love languages book has a few references to god and religion, but I'm not Christian and it still help.

If you are having problems already then you might want to get serious and get some other books from the same authors.

By Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.:
"Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love"
"Fall in Love, Stay in Love"
"5 Steps to Romantic Love"
And if you already need it: "Surviving an Affair"
This one is the one that help us to be able to survive and fix our broken marriage.

By Gary Chapman
"The Five Languages of Apology"
"The Five Languages of Children"
"The Five Languages of Teens"
"The Five Languages for Singles"
"Five Signs of a Loving Family"
"The Marriage You've Always Wanted"
"The Other Side of Love"

By Janis Abrahms Spring, PhD.
"After the Affair"
If you have already gotten to the point of needing this one. then it will help you both understand what those feelings you are having are, and why you are feeling them. This one can be used to supplement "Surviving an Affair".

If you feel that you need more help with your relationship. Then I suggest go to the website: /http://www.marriagebuilders.com/index.html you can learn more or get professional help no matter where you are. Or you can browse the forums to find some of the help you might need.

My wife and I are finally happy in our marriage. After the honeymoon period of our marriage, when things started to cool down, we didn't think we would ever be this happy, ever again. Our happiness has carried over to our family. And we can see the effect it's having on our children, all 5 of them. We are a better family and we are better people for this.

I hope you learn to be as happy as we finally are. Good luck to you all.

She's no alpha female, she cut and ran as
soon as he opened his mouth versing something
domestic. No strategy to get what she wanted.
I'd say she's a beta female alpha wannabe.

Love is something you do, not something you feel. If you are looking for love (and there are other reasons to be married) in a partner, you have to be willing to do just as much (or more, in my case) work as you are expecting your partner to do in order to maintain the relationship. This does not mean giving in every time there is a disagreement, but putting your partner's needs above your own. If both people do this, the relationship thrives. If not, it eventually ends. As someone said above, selfishness is the way to loneliness, and that goes in both directions.

One of my favorite sayings is that everything I needed to know about handling women I learned from the movie "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers".

The wife just rolls her eyes.

Just for kicks, let's see if you can really tell if the following sentiments are most commonly felt in the hearts of men OR women:

Why do I want a (husband/wife)? Why shouldn't I be perfectly happy to live by entire existence by myself?

Because it's cold out there! Really, really cold. The world isn't anywhere near as loving, comfortable, assured or fair as I thought when I was a little (boy/girl). I encounter nasty, lying, duplicitous, self-serving backstabbers every day on the bus, at work, in the supermarket...hell, everywhere. Yes, I have friends and family, but what about that wonderful and passionate intimacy you only get with ("the one"/Her), that sweet, terrific (man/woman) on whom I can DEPEND WITHOUT EXPLANATION OR APOLOGY? Someone who is always in my corner, someone who is my refuge, my salve, my caressor and my counsel. That (guy/gal) who knows that in my deepest unacknowledged sometimes terrified heart, I need them to remove the horror and fright and indifference and disdain that this world gives to everyone, including me.

If I could determine the one characteristic that my life's One True Love would possess and share with me, that one aspect of their identity that would not fade with age or deplete with use, it would be that they are totally and utterly devoted to my always knowing that the valves of their heart are connected to mine, and in no way would they ever abondon my need for their love, because they know I would die without it.

1. Are these the throughts of a man or a woman?

2. WRONG! Now stop pretending you know everything about human beings.

3. Cassy Fiano has more sense than any ten women (or men) that I know. You rule, girl!

Two fundamentals:

(1) In a free society, one must have enough humility and practicality to adapt to the marketplace. Many "powerful" women never learned how to do this, or were never interested in learning how.

(2) Never try to change your partner or prospective partner. It can't be done.

Doesn't "Alpha female" translate to (Lonely cat lady)?--or maybe the proud owner of a gigolo if she's lucky.

Sorry that male/female roles and traditions cause such horrific problems. LMAO.........

Thank you Cassy! you were the voice for the masses! ;)
Mitch

Hmmm. I never stopped to think about whether or not I was an Alpha female, and I also never have had trouble with men accepting that I have an advanced degree, a demanding job, and a good salary. I'm thinking this is not a coincidence. A woman who sits around constantly thinking about how wonderful she is and how threatening she must be to men is going to be a crushing bore as company, not to mention a completely humorless date. Too bad no one ever educated these women enough to realize that very smart and talented people do well to learn humility and tact.

I will agree with the poster who said that men who don't want kids don't want marriage. I never wanted kids and I was in my 30's before I met a great catch who wanted commitment and marriage without kids. Such men are out there, but they're pretty rare.

For all you Alpha Males out there -- how would you advise these women to finally be able to keep a man?

Wear Enjoli - because bringing home the bacon, frying it up in a pan, also involves never, ever, ever letting me forget I'm an Alpha man.

.

These women start at a disadvantage by hunting a very rare beast -- a caring man whose career achievements are equal or superior to their own. They can't respect a guy who earns less and works fewer hours. So, the more success these women have, the fewer dating candidates will be out there.

These ladies complain about Alpha males being egotistical and self-centered. But those traits are what help Alpha males maintain their status. If they stopped being Alpha males, these women wouldn't respect them.

And on it goes....

Kozaburo, too many Penn grads are too cocky (unjustifiably) and give the whole university a bad reputation.

Don't blame men for running from that.

When I read the article, I wondered if those women wanted a relationship or just the appearance of a relationship. Just what is "having it all?"

My ex-wife is an alpha like me, and she would either eat dinner before she got home or just grab something quick. Then she would plop down in front of the tv to watch her favorite shows, ignored my request to talk about much of anything, and was a "quickie" kind of girl providing she was not too tired or her body not quite feeling up for it.

My new girlfriend, and soon to be alpha wife, works hard too, but also works hard at our relationship. She lets her beta out to keep everything in balance.

You go girls, but you got to learn to check your alpha at work and brink home the beta.

Kevin M.-

The answer to your first question is, "yes".

;-)

Jim2: Wiseass!

Sheik: Stop stealing my "metric assloads" line!

Secondly, I find myself a smidgen suspicious of this article. "Clare Connell" is pretty close to "Clare Kirkconnell," the actress who played the first alpha female I ever encountered, in the "Paper Chase" TV series.

Could be coincidence, could be BS...

J.

I read the previous article in question and honestly giggled about it. Reason being, I am a Alpha Female, yet I don't make nearly the amount of money these women do. Honestly money is great, but I don't ever want to have the same problems as someone who has money such as they.

I have my "issues" as EVERYONE does in ANY type of relationship, wether dating or just friends. But compromise is the only way to go and shows when you are an adult.

So with that said I totally agree with you Cassy. And with you reading this article, all I could think is what a bunch of whiny little girls. If they ever go beyond themselves they might actually be happy with themselves and then find someone to be happy with them!

Okay. I get it.

Single women over the age of 30 ooze desperation; and that is very unattractive.

Ok I'm an alpha male. Just ask any of my friends, business colleges, or customers. When I'm with a woman in whom I have a romantic interest I leave all that competitive shit at the door. Intimate relationships are not about balance sheets, business mergers or relative incomes. They are about making yourself vulnerable, honesty, and meeting each others needs.

I need the woman in my life to joyously make room in her life for me, as I will for her. Guess what if, part of the time, she needs me to put her before my job, business obligations, friends, and self thats what happens. I expect the same. Yes expect. Needs are just that. Something you need.

All this alpha beta stuff is so much BS. Lets talk about strength. I'm a strong guy I want a strong woman. One who loves me as I love her. Someone who won't take my crap when I slip after a tough day and drop it on her. And someone whose crap I'm not expected to take when she does the same. But at our base, in that personal private place where we each go alone with ourselves, we know that we're in love and that love comes before anything else. I know that I can't change her (and wouldn't if I could) and she knows the same about me, but we mesh and compliment each other and the chemistry doesn't stop.

We have raised two generations of women who are insecure, PC spouting, unhappy driven competitors who can't leave the politics out of their relationships. Unsurprisingly men have grown tired of the game.

Both sexes need to get back to the private truth. Very very few of us are happiest alone. We each need to identify our needs, then find the courage to share that with opposite sex until we find a match. Very un PC maybe - but true none the less.
-J

Kevin M -

Guilty as charged.

;-)

"For all you Alpha Males out there -- how would you advise these women to finally be able to keep a man?"

Assertive isn't pronounced "ass-hole".

Incredibly... real men can tell the difference.

"He didn't want a partner who was his equal, he wanted a Beta female - someone who would pander to his ego and look up to him."

That comment right there is what all women should find offensive. It's as if she's saying that if woman decides to be a homemaker and stay home to raise children she is somehow worth less or is somehow subjugated or submissive.

She doesn't understand what equal means. The only way she'll ever be 'equal' to a man, any man, is if she has a package in her pants.

It was a self-centered remark. Of course she has a right to be career oriented and demand that what ever man she chooses be respectful of that, but to imply that any woman who doesn't is a "beta" is truly the epitome of self-aggrandizing clap-trap.

Conversely, would she be offended if the man she chose demanded that she hold the door for him an equal number of times or expected her to change the flat tire?

Well, the question should be: Which is more important: Mr(s.) Right? Or Mr(s.) Good Enough?

--|PW|--

Wow. That entire article (the embed, not Cassy's) reeked of pop-media-inspired relationship delusion.

Relationships are work. Hard work. It doesn't have much of a "Hearts and Flowers" sound to it, but relationships are about picking a partner that you can work with for the long haul.

I wasn't impressed that the interviewees seemed unable to comprehend that many of the same characteristics that allowed them to succeed in business (determination, expertise in negotiation, effective compromise, honesty) can be translated into equally - or more - successful personal aspects. Nobody walks away from the table because the first draft of a deal isn't perfect in every way. Nothing would ever get done.

It's the same thing in marriage. My wife and I have now been negotiating (and that can be WAY more fun than it sounds) for 24 years now. I don't get "my way". She doesn't get "her way". We figure out "our way". Time together. Time with the kids. Who supervises homework. Dinner locations. Weekend activities. House selection. Car selection. Who takes out the trash. When we'll have some "interpersonal time". Thousands of everyday details to be negotiated and settled upon by the partners in the business of marriage.

Get over yourselves! He won't be Prince Charming (with a perfect body and a monster career). She won't be the perfect Snow White (with a repressed Porn Star just waiting for your magic touch). You WILL NOT find perfect. You MAY find a great partner with whom you can merge, and together create something that is nearly perfect for you both.

My wife started out changing diapers at a daycare facility for special needs children. A college degree, a lot of hard work and couple decades later, she's the executive director of a statewide advocacy group for special needs children. She's became an alpha female the old fashioned way -- she EARNED it. I've been by her every step of the way and couldn't be any prouder.

Right on Justanoldman and Paul Hamilton!

What is it with this Alpha or Beta stuff? Hey, I'm a physician and my husband of 33 years is an airline pilot. Both of us love our jobs and after all these years we're still crazy about each other.

If these alpha femmes weren't so full of shit, they'd get a husband. I, too, have never known a man who wants a woman who just sits around and pines for him.

If you are a loser in something, sometimes it's easy to criticize everyone else except yourself.

All this alpha male and female issues that pertain only at the superficial level of one's egoes. How about addressing the issues of emotional maturity?

Men are raised and socialized to BE the breadwinner in the old days. They do not even have a choice in this matter. IF a guy were to live off the woman and be totally financially dependent on her, he will be consider a loser and cannot face his friends and family members for fear of being looked down upon. Women, on the other hand, have options. We can choose to have a career of our own, but no one would think it is weird if we choose to stay at home and live off our husband's career. Men have no choice but to compete in the world and establish themselves because they implicitly have this responsibility hanging over their heads. Therefore, many of them have not have the luxury to move beyond the "ego" aspect of their lives.

The characteristics that the alpha females acquired through their journeys cannot be disrespected either. In the same way that men have to compete and face the hardships that accompany ambition, women are faced with the same hardships. Depending on what fields they are in, it may even be harder for women as they may have to fight against sexism, sexual harrassment, and issues of the like. As the alpha females struggle and accomplish what they set out to accomplish, a lot of the "alpha traits" were acquired and learned during their journeys as well as some that are inherent. If anyone has ever worked hard and become highly successful, then you would know how much time, energy,effort, and sacrifice it takes out of you. Consequently, why would anyone, man or woman, want to come home and have a second job to take care of a needy wife or lazy husband? How can you blame the nature of being human? If one has moved on to a higher quality of life, why should any woman want to compromise and dummy herself down so she can be in a relationship with a man. After a while, she would feel frustrated by that behavior. She would realize that the frustration far outweights the benefits of being in that kind of relationship.

I think both men and women want a loving relationship with the opposite sex. ALL of us want respect and the freedom to be who we are. We ALL want a partner that is similar to where we are in life in terms of our values, goals, interests, etc..(I think it would be much easier.) We women don't want men to reverse time and suffocate us with old traditional ways of living. A lot of men do not want the financial and emotional burden of taking care of a needy wife/girlfriend. I think in a stressful and everchanging contemporary society, I think we are all looking for a little peace, love, support,security, and acceptance from our partners that we may not get from the outside world. I think men can show more of their feminine side without losing their masculinity. Most women I know like that in a man. I think the previous comments by others are correct. Leave the "alpha female" masculine traits out of the relationship. We may need some of that when it comes to our careers, but it is definitely detrimental when you bring those traits into a relationship.