"Of course, this is a man who doesn't put his hand over his heart when the National Anthem is played; he holds his hands over his crotch."

Are you seriously monitoring Obama's crotch? I look forward to updates.

I do not claim the Democrats are traitors.

...not ALL of them, at least.

A difinition of a patriot is one who loves their country and supports it's policies. Lefties do neither. ww

Excellent, DJ. These Dems are so busy pandering to the left that they never think twice of how stupid their statements are. It's all about votes. Obama's actions only serve to remind me that he grew up being raised as a Muslim until he "found" Christianity. Just where are his loyalties?

Nice job Drummond. Toss an inane, inaccurate, stupid comment to the wingnut loonies and watch their heads explode. You must be bored - the substance of your comment would evidence that. Now you can watch your modern day witch burners dance around the fire as they froth at the mouth and go yeah yeah yeah those dems are traitors. See the 3 idiots above and many more to follow.

A difinition of a patriot is one who loves their country and supports it's policies.

That's a new one to me. So tell us, Willie, do you support, say, our current immigration policies? If not, does that mean you aren't a patriot?

jp2:

"Are you seriously monitoring Obama's crotch? I look forward to updates."

Actually we're monitoring your crotch. And very much like Dizzy Dean's head x-rays "X-Rays of jp2s Crotch Show Nothing."

JFO:

"Nice job Drummond. Toss an inane, inaccurate, stupid comment to the wingnut loonies"

Would you care to be more specific? Which comment is "inaccurate?"

Other than the opinion that those quoted are not patriots which obviously is just that, an opinion and can't be "wrong," or "inaccurate" just different than yours.

Good food for thought DJ.

JFO answer a question or three for me. What makes YOU a Patriot? What do you love about America? What would you be willing to give to defend your freedom?

Marc:

Your opinion about anything is like hot air blowing out your ass Marc. Unfortunately instead of your ass it comes out your mouth. It's rancid and unpleasant and it is perpetual.

Your last comment was about as intelligent as the usual claptrap that comes out of Bush's mouth.

RFA

I don't wear patriotism on my sleeve and I don't engage in contests to see who is more or less patriotic than anyone else.

What I love most about America is the freedom to dissent - without being called a traitor for doing so. What would I give to defend my country? What I gave from 1970 to 1976 - service in the army.

JFO:

Your last comment was about as intelligent as the usual claptrap that comes out of Bush's mouth.

Just as I thought, no cognizant answer to a legitimate question. Very typical of you. And an attitude that sooner or later will send you packing for good.

More JFO inanities:

"What I love most about America is the freedom to dissent - without being called a traitor for doing so."

But in "your America" it's perfectly A-OK to label a ligit question aimed at clarification of your statement as "rancid and unpleasant."

Gotcha! At Least your consistent.

A consistent A-Hole of the first order.

What I love most about America is the freedom to dissent - without being called a traitor for doing so.

Without being called a traitor for doing so? No such freedom exists. Others are free to call you a traitor, or "question your patriotism" (oh no!) all they want. Freedom for everyone.

And DJ, only total morons run around declaring others to be unpatriotic. The only people dumber are those who take it seriously.

That's what I love about posting here; the libbies will prove my point for me in the comment section.

C'mon JFO, defend your side. Tell us how deriding and insulting our men at arms and their mission do anything good for America? How does broadcasting to the terrorists that 'we can't win' helps our troops in any way.

We are at war. And buddy, you're cheering for the wrong side.

Mantis

How completely naive of me!! To think that I believe in the right to dissent in America without being called a traitor. Holy cow, only right wing loons are patriotic!

JFO:

"How completely naive of me!! To think that I believe in the right to dissent in America without being called a traitor."

And your definition of dissent is....?

Naïve is not the word I would use to describe someone who thinks he has the right to speak while others don't have the right to respond. I would describe him as ttlly fckng stpd.

Well DJ, you prove my point with your stupid comment about me cheering for the wrong side. You know nothing about me. What I support or don't support. What my experience has been. What I may or may not have done to serve our country.But you feel free to toss that piece of garbage out. That, of course, is your right but it doesn't mean your garbage doesn't stink.It's like the garbage in your post.

What have you done DJ that makes you so much more patriotic than me or anyone else for that matter? It's so easy for folks like you sit at your computer and judge others. What is really patriotic is folks who defend your right to write your garbage. And though I may despise what you write and what you think, I would defend it.

Hmmm. I would describe such a person as WizbangBlue.

Yes we're at war. The wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time.Many, if not most, of the people in this country believe that.

A war that has been disgracefully mismanaged. And if you think it's unpatriotic to express that then I feel sorry for you. Wearing a flag in your lapel or putting your hand over your heart are good symbolic gestures. But that's all they are. They don't measure one's patriotism. But then that's the Bushies at their best. All symbol and little substance.

My words speak for me, JFO. Unfortunately for you, your words define your position, as well.

m-w.com

one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

And dictionary.com

1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.

2.a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

And askoxford.com

• a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it.

Far more often than not, I don't see or hear Reid, Obama, Pelosi, Durbin, Kennedy, Kucinich, McDermott, Krugman, Dowd, Moore, DailyKos, Soros, etc, etc, etc, as living up to even these most simple definitions when it comes to a difficult and protracted war in Iraq. So, yes, I DO question their patriotism when they place politics over it. I equally question the patriotism of Republicans who are just weak-willed and weak-kneed on illegal immigration as the aforementioned Dimmies are on Iraq.

In sports, we call them fair-weather fans or bandwagoners. They're passionate when the team's going great, but when things turn sour, or a losing streak or the game is turning south, pow, they hop off that bandwagon to join the Criticism Caravan.

But a true fan, one who really loves the team, can criticize the play of the QB or call of the coach, yet still remain loyal and hopeful the team wins the game. But you will never, ever see that fan throw in the towel and call "the war lost" when there's still time on the clock and the team is behind by just 6 points.

True fans, the ones who "love", "support" and are "devoted" to it, believe in that the Jets and Bills can come back ("The Heidi Game", the 1993 AFC wild card game) that little Doug Flutie can complete a Hail Mary and knock off a #1 ("Fultie's Miracle in Miami) or The Miracle on Ice, The 2004 Red Sox, MJ at the buzzer (pick a game) and the Colorado Rockies. And, more important, they believe in and support "the surge" no matter how difficult that task may seem.

If you don't believe, if you're not a patriot for the home team, well, you deserve to be shunned, ignored and even mocked. That, and have a stale beer poured down your back from the guy sitting in the row behind you--me.

Hers' the brass tacks fer ya JFO...

Would you say Murtha's denigration of military members by declaring them guilty of killing "in cold blood" before the investigation is complete or trial is held as dissent or something else?

That's a fairly easy question I should think.

It was stupid and should be condemned.

Oops, meant to add.

Real "fans" don't boo the home team (the United States). You can groan, you can moan, but you just don't boo. Ever. You do, you're not a fan. Pretty simple.

Good on you for that much, JFO.

Bear in mind as well, please, that I respect Murtha's service. It's just that he should know better and show respect for the guys doing the fighting now.

It is reasonable to debate the validity of the war. But the way in which dissent is displayed in this war has been, to say the least, dishonorable to the troops.

DJ

Glad to see we agree on something. Would love to keep debating but I have to go. I would say that from my perspective the dissent has not been dishonorable to the troops. Especially when compared to what was done to Vietnam Vets when they returned. From my perspective the troops are used as a tool of the right to condemn those of us who disagree with the validity and conduct of the war. The mantra is if you disagree you don't support the troops. That's just a cop out.

JFO"

"From my perspective the troops are used as a tool of the right to condemn those of us who disagree with the validity and conduct of the war."

And by only noting "the right" as those that use to troops for political means suggests your partisan blinders are too dark to see reality.

Never mind the fact that Reid, Pelosi and the Lt Gov of California all have implied that the fire fighting effort there has been hampered because of the Iraq war.

I guess that doesn't count.

Sure, I honor Murtha's service, too. Does this mean I have to "honor" every dishonorable thing he has done since his honorable service, as well? From ABSCAM to padding pork for his cronies to condemning soldiers for "murder" before investigation, charges, or trial?

I also honor the service of America's greatest General in the Revolutionary War. He won more battles than all the other American commanders put together. He was twice wounded in battle - once seriously enough to leave his leg permanently disabled - but didn't relinquish command.

His name? Benedict Arnold. Don't dare question his patriotism, though.

I think Peter F. pretty much nailed it.

Being from Boston, I certainly know the meaning of avid fan. Well done.

How's that political reconciliation going DJ? You know the purpose of the surge. The thing that all the experts say must happen for peace in Iraq? Nothing?

OK, how's things going on the Turkey boarder?

Can we question the patriotism of those that are unilaterally pushing us into war with Iran?

Here are the words of a true patriot (Fred Thompson):

At a campaign stop in South Carolina Wednesday, Fred Thompson said that the Iraqi insurgency is made up of "a bunch of kids with improvised explosive devices,"

Just a bunch of kid. You know like a bunch of dead-enders. You fight with the army have and not the one you want. Bring it on.

I wonder what the marines think about those kinds of statements?

JFO

Yes we're at war. The wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time.Many, if not most, of the people in this country believe that.

If that's true, why can't/won't a Democrat contolled legislature vote to defund the war? They can stop it right now if the will of the people backs them.

JFO
"How completely naive of me!! To think that I believe in the right to dissent in America without being called a traitor."

Dissent is one thing BUT your lean towards subversion tends to scare those of us who tend to be more middle of the road types.

It would be impossible for me to list all the false allegations made by the Liberals in the past six + years. It still amazes me when an elected official can make a clearly inaccurate statement, be proven to be wrong, and not be man enough to admit the error much less apologize. Murtha is a SKUNK

Hey BarneyG,
How would you deal with Iran? Give them a bomb?

"What I gave from 1970 to 1976 - service in the army."

So you gave a little bit more than John Fraud Kerry did.

"It was stupid and should be condemned."

How about the relentless lies and smears of our Commander in Chief?

Democrats would like for us to believe that what they are doing is dissent for that is what they dictate. However in all their brilliance in their ability to deceive they fail to master the ability to control their demeanor. Their spoken words may claim dissent , while all other behaviors through which one reveals one's personality screams HATE SPEECH!

"wonder what the marines think about those kinds of statements?"

Yes I wonder, but more importantly which statements. Specifically the ones you blurt out your ass without thought.. "You know like a bunch of dead-enders".