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Dennis Kookcinich and the Nutroots: the Impeachment Tour!

Today was Kookcinich and the Nutroots' attempt to impeach Vice President Cheney, much to Steny Hoyer's embarrassment. He's trying to table it right now.

Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich basked in the spotlight Tuesday as afternoon debate in the House was sidetracked by his resolution to bring impeachment articles against Vice President Dick Cheney.

Rep. Kucinich of Ohio made a procedural maneuver to bring up his resolution, despite opposition from Democratic leaders. But a Republican-led effort to force the vote left Democratic scrambline to redirect the resolution in a way that could stall it indefinitely.

The House voted 218-194, along party lines, to send the resolution to the House Judiciary Committee, the panel of jurisdiction for the matter.

Prospects for Kucinich's efforts initially were not bright, with top Democrats saying they didn't support their colleague.

"Impeachment is not on our agenda. We have some major priorities. We need to focus on those," House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said before Tuesday's action.

But when Hoyer tried to kill the resolution, Republicans made a last-minute maneuver to gum up Hoyer's plans, which had the backing of other top House Democrats including Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

The tally in the House initially favored Hoyer, but Republicans -- who at first also favored killing the bill -- began switching their votes to oppose killing the bill. Hoyer's motion lost on a 162-251 vote.

Immediately after that vote, Hoyer made a motion to send the resolution to committee. He eventually got his way. The House vote to send the resolution to committee could effectively bury legislation that leaders would prefer not to act upon.

Heh. It would have been great fun to watch the Democrats sweat as they were forced to vote on impeaching Cheney.

Michelle Malkin has live blogged the entire fiasco.

Brian Faughnan writing at The Weekly Standard's blog Worldwide Standard explains the effect of sending the resolution to committee:

To be precise, it is as much alive as any other bill or resolution in any other committee. The committee can hold hearings, vote on it, discuss it -- or ignore it. In this case, it won't get any more attention than Mr. Kucinich's previous resolution on impeachment. So Speaker Pelosi and the House leadership have been as good as their word -- impeachment is 'off the table.'

Update: Drudge has this comment from Alcee Hastings at the top of his page:

Alcee Hastings (D-FLA) tells FOX NEWS: 'Dennis Kucinich is on a quest of his own. He sees flying saucers and he acts like one, too'... Developing...

Ouch.


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Comments (53)

Tomorrows NYSlimes headline... (Below threshold)
scrapiron Author Profile Page:

Tomorrows NYSlimes headline: "Republicans vote to impeach Chaney". No reason why, just a headline. Headline should read, Once again the 'minority' republicans stick it to the leaderless democrats.

This was the Dhimmicrat(ic)... (Below threshold)
Kat:

This was the Dhimmicrat(ic) chance to get the ball rolling for impeachment. What happened? The nutroots should go crazy and I can only laugh at their ineptitude.
When the light shown on the Rats, they ran for cover. The Dems didn't want to have to vote or debate this.

IMPEACH!Ya know<br /... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

IMPEACH!
Ya know
http://icasualties.org/

Some of you. like me were offended by president Clinton in prime TV telling us a lie about sex in the White House. Seriously, is there anyone here who was duped about the threat to the USA (other than oil)

Who is your hero among your candidates?

I believe that RP is too strange...
but you'll pretend that RP may not exist...
(no misspelling)


Do you really want to delve... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

Do you really want to delve into how strange the top Republicans appear from a distance?
Cool...let the youtube battles begin..
How is that supporting Democracy in Pakistan going?
ya know...at some point in your life,,you may have to accept that the bad luck in your life at this time....is not becuse of lefty's...
Sometimes we just have
bad luck....
Hmmmm do you support or President our not?
If you do do support our President...
who can YOU trust?

Let me see if I've got this... (Below threshold)
Herman:

Let me see if I've got this straight. According to decrees of the U.S. House of Representatives:

Trying to cover up an extramarital affair that one's own spouse forgives one for: Impeachable.

Tricking the nation into war, shaming America by committing indecent crimes against humanity, and viciously shredding the U.S. Constitution: Unimpeachable.

That sound about right??

No Herman, it sounds just l... (Below threshold)

No Herman, it sounds just like you.

Hey, Herman, you made a cou... (Below threshold)

Hey, Herman, you made a couple of typos there. Lemme help ya:

Lying under oath in a federal proceeding to thwart a civil lawsuit that would embarrass yourself and cost you a healthy amount of money: Impeachable.

Acting on the same intelligence believed valid for several years, in accordance with a law passed in 1998, and putting teeth to years of empty threats: Unimpeachable.

Using existing and new laws to fight terrorists, their allies, and supporters, defending Americans and American interests: Unimpeachable.

Waging war against those who commit indecent crimes against humanity, including the slaughter of hostages and relentless attacks on civilians: Unimpeachable.

Glad to be of help, Herman. But do try to be more careful in the future -- I can't always be here to clean up your messes for you.

J.

Glad to be of help, Her... (Below threshold)

Glad to be of help, Herman. But do try to be more careful in the future -- I can't always be here to clean up your messes for you.

Perhaps a large supository would help with the derranged and dilerious JT. but I doubt it.

I watched KooCoosinich this afternoon while even the CSpan camera was trying to crawl under a desk. There was no one in the house that wanted to be on camera while this loony tune was playing his Area 51 reckoning.

Kucinich stood on the floor this afternoon and quoted Cheney statements that were also made by many leaders on both sides of the political spectrum including world leaders who were supplied the same intell. The state of Ohio should be ashamed of this freak of nature. Next time the 'visitors" show up, maybe they'll take him on a trip.

When is the democratic party going to get serious about national security while they play games with the Vets bill?

Herman and Nogo may be good at the rhetoric, but I'll bet both of them are scratching their heads over the nonsense of what was once a proud democratic party.

Please flush and put the seat down for the ladys......leave it up for the NOW gang and Hillary-----they're used to reaching.

Jay Tea, you often display ... (Below threshold)
cartman:

Jay Tea, you often display your woeful ignorance of the constituion in your daily writings but in this case you have made yourself a laughing stock.

As constitutional lawyer Ann Coulter (Funny when you say that isn't it?) says "The derivation of the phrase 'high crimse and misdemeanors' has nothing to do with crimes in English common law for which public servants could be impeached," but had much to do with dishonorable conduct or a breach in the public trust."

the case:

1)Going well beyond the established powers granted in the constituion to fit his batshit crazy Unitaray executive theory qualifies as grounds for impeachment.

2) Selecting evidence to build a case for war while ignoring evidence to the contrary. Grounds for impeachment.

see the following:
a) using the yellocake bullshit that was discredited in the build up to war when they knew it was discredited... grounds for impeachment.

b) ignoring a top source in the Iraqi govt. who said no WMD. letting the american people think the debate was over, when it was so not over. grounds for impeachment.

c) using curveball as a definite source when everyone doubted him. (to again convince everyone the war was the smart thing to do) Grounds for getting kicked out of office.

d) lying about the link between Al quaeda and Iraq. GFI


e) The downing street memo which shows we were going to war before Iraq had chance tocomply with resolutions. GFI

f) Several CIA sources saying the petangon wanted evidence "That painted IRAQ Bad" many expressing the view the VP was ignoring evidence to the contrary. GFI

All of this qualifies a breach of public trust (AND THEM SOME) Much more than lying under oath about a blowjob. not to mention Waterboarding, lying about it, Spying without warrents, and so on and so on and so on.


I'm sure you will delete this and ban me. that is what right wing pussies like you do. to scared to stand up and get your asses kicked in honest debate like men.

Oh I didn't bother spell checking or looking for typos so, I'm sure some of the moron crowd will flame for that. Mind you none of them will take on the arguments too stupid for that. just divert and cry and run the republican way.

cartmanConservatives... (Below threshold)

cartman
Conservatives can hope your brief will find its way to the floor of Congress.
Conservatives today actually voted in favor for debate on many of your points....the Dems betrayed you.

Cartman, if I was the sort ... (Below threshold)

Cartman, if I was the sort that did what you accuse me of, I wouldn't have left Herman's post untouched. Instead, I posted it as a separate comment.

Likewise, I'm leaving your comment alone.

Yes, practically speaking, an "impeachable offense" is whatever a majority of the House and 2/3 of the Senate say it is. But every single one of your talking points has been at least credibly challenged -- if not discredited. For example, the Downing Street Memo's credibility revolves around the use of the word "fixed." The use of "fixed" meaning "illicitly arranged" is an Americanism; a more British version would be "arranged around or attached to," like a fixed mounting for a gun on a warship. And in the full context of the Memo, it is fairly clear that that is the meaning of the term.

The "yellowcake" was not conclusively proven, one way or another. Joseph Wilson's report (NOT the op-ed he gave to the New York Times) was cited by experts as SUPPORTING the possibility that Saddam was seeking yellowcake

I don't have the time to deal with the rest of them, but AGAIN you miss the point of the Clinton impeachment. The man LIED UNDER OATH IN A FEDERAL PROCEEDING to deny an American citizen (Paula Jones) a fair trial. For all your blathering and hysteria, you can't point to a single case of Bush denying an American citizen justice anywhere near as actively as Bill Clinton sought to deprive Paula Jones of her rights -- and for as purely selfish reasons.

And for the rest of the audience: no, I am not banning Cartman (who, I note, is using an anonymizing service to conceal his IP). Nor did I edit or alter his comment in any way. If he doesn't respond, it's because he chooses not to, not because he can not.

J.

I wish once, just once,Jay ... (Below threshold)
JFO:

I wish once, just once,Jay Tea that you would work up the balls and a modicum of honesty and just admit what you are. A card carrying member of the far right fringe.You feed us the line of bullshit about being an "independent" and a "libertarian." It's pretty pathetic when you daily repeat the right wing talking points, defend George Bush and his numerous follies, follow the tenets of the fringe right and then have the gall, when challenged, to claim to be an independent.

Either you're deluded, a liar or both. The first step to recovery is the admission. You ought to try it.

Jay tea,i did not ... (Below threshold)
cartman:

Jay tea,

i did not miss the point on Clinton, I diagreed with it.

When you take a look at your response to the downing steet memo I think we should put it in its context

reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

Now you say it hangs on the word "fixed" to me that is like saying whether or not Clinton lied, is based on the words "Sexual Relations"
It just doesn't hold water.

Secondldly, Clinton was disbarred in Arkansas for the crime and I beleive fined. His punishment was handled in a court of law, there was no need to impeach. Nothing about what he did endangered the country.


Now if you beleive "fixed" implies were going to war no matter what (and I'll assume you don't agree with that) then you you must regognize that several things in the build up to the war were lies and that DOES put the nation at risk. Putting the nation at risk is certianly grounds for impeachment.

Now, congress had the right to go after Clinton I don't deny that right. In fact I think the founders wanted the excecutive quaking in his boots at the prospect of impeachment as a means of keeping that branch in check. I question their wisdom in going after him and not going after this administration.

I mean seriously you have t... (Below threshold)
dr lava:

I mean seriously you have to be an absolute moron to be still supporting this president and this vice president.

What kind of conservative submissive pussy takes lie after lie after lie from these fools and doesn't get pissed?

Are there any real men around here or just a lot of submissive authoritarian pansies?

Yeah... I thought so. No Henry Rollins in this Wizbang crowd.
depp=true
notiz=ah....acid reflux! *burp

Kookcinich does something s... (Below threshold)
ODA315:

Kookcinich does something stupid and all the moonbats converge here to pillary Jay and Kim. Why all the undo attention?

Shouldn't you assclowns be at your keyboards screaming at Pretty Pelosi and Stimpy Hoyer?

And there certainly aren't ... (Below threshold)

And there certainly aren't any Churchill's or Reagans either, but you two would make fine lieutenants in Bin Ladin's "company".

What Bush and Cheney have accomplished so you morons can regurgitate, idiots like Nogo, dr lava, and now the man in the cart will never understand or appriciate what sacrifice or protection means to a nation.

Why don't you kids go burn a flag and kick a dog some where?

Just once I'd like to see t... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Just once I'd like to see the democrats back up they're 'he lied to the American people chants'. If you can you can prove that every democrat serving in the 90's lied to the American people, and all should be impeached. All statements about the WMD (a lot of which has been found) are based on the same intel. I guess the thousands of Iraqi's killed by Saddam simply breathed too much sand, no WMD involved. Works for me.

JFO:"I wish on... (Below threshold)
marc:

JFO:

"I wish once, just once,Jay Tea that you would work up the balls and a modicum of honesty and just admit what you are. A card carrying member of the far right fringe.

I wish once, just once, JFO that you would admit black helicopters constantly circle your abode, you have a 2 year supply of MRE's stolen from the local National Guard post to outlast ANY Rethuglian apocalypse, a four layer foil hat to ward off the Rovian mind rays and are a Gold Card carrying lunatic in the mold of Kookcinich.

Bwhahahhahahahahaha...... (Below threshold)
Jo:

Bwhahahhahahahahaha...

The moonbats crack me up.

Then why dont we include TE... (Below threshold)
Spurwing Plover:

Then why dont we include TED KENNEDY in that ame thing i mean these dityu dems will do anything
depp=true

This is great... on the sam... (Below threshold)
Brian:

This is great... on the same day that Jay writes a post about how disingenuously supporting Ron Paul is "dishonest" and causes mischief for the Republicans, we have Kim writing a post about the "great fun" of Republicans disingenuously supporting a resolution to cause mischief for the Democrats. (Although why it would be "fun" to watch a couple of hundred people vote "no" is not made clear.)

Please... more comedy!

the elders of nebulon 7 hav... (Below threshold)
dennis kucinich:

the elders of nebulon 7 have just beamed me a thought ray indicating they are pleased with the progress of the cheney impeachment. phase 1 of the operation can now be considered a success, and the weak humans will dither over this while the might galactic nebulonic warriors prepare the invasion fleet!

nmmmmeps! nmmmeps! all hail the dark sith lord hillary!

liberals, The bot... (Below threshold)

liberals,

The bottom line is,this was yet another chance to carry through on your "Bush lied"propaganda that you and your liberal heroes in congress keep spewing,and your elected liberals ran from it faster than they have been running from the terrorist for the last few years.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP LIBERALS!!

The Republicans showed today that they want this to hit the floor so it can be debated in front of the
country to show how full of crap your cut and paste
history revision of the past 10 years has been.
The democrats ran from that debate today,plain and
simple.

The downing st. memo is nothing but an unsigned piece
of paper handed off to someone by a "shadow" in a restaurant.No one officially stands behind or will testify in court the authenticity of this cherry picked
document.

Joe Wilson admitted himself in his senate report that
he felt like Iraq had sent a delegate to niger to work
out a deal for yellow cake.
HE SAID IT IN HIS OWN WORDS LIBERAL.
The committee was headed by democrats and Republicans
and signed off by both.Wilson was found to not be credible.Armitage leaked his wife's name and their accusations are so weak they can't even bring a civil suit for all this made up"Treason".

Their are hundreds of quotes and video of liberal heroes like Hillary,Bill,Kerry,Reid,Gore,Durbin,Pelosi,
intelligence,pentagon,Defense Dept.,English,CIA,
French,German,Egypt,Saudi,Israeli,UN...that said Saddam was a threat,retained WMD,ties to Al-Qaeda and other
terrorist groups,nuclear program,responsible for the genocide of between 600,000 to 1.3 million of his own
people,assassination attempt of a US president,killing
thousands of people in Iraq and Iran with WMD's....
But keep on cherry picking quotes from the very few
and the people who change their positions when the going got tough in Iraq so that you can defend Saddam in your pathetic war on Bush.
Their were many people who did not think Hitler was a
threat to America before WW11 and did not think communism was and is a threat to the world.
Hitler,Stalin,and Mao are responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people.
By your logic liberal,if their is a difference of opinion,the world should have done nothing.The world
didn't in regards to Mao and Stalin,thank god we didn't
listen to idiot Chamberlain liberals in regard to Hitler.
The worlds intelligence agencies,democrats,Republicans
the Americans people,and the press overwhelmingly saw
Saddam as a threat that did not comply with UN resolutions,Sanctions were a failure(Nancy Pelosi even acknowledged this)and abide by his surrender agreement after the first Gulf War to disarm and allow this disarmament to be overseen by the UN and America UNCONDITIONALLY AND WITHOUT OBSTRUCTION.It was Saddam's responsibility to prove that he had no WMD/Nuclear program.
Kicking inspectors out,not allowing them access until
Saddam gave the ok,shooting at our planes,Oil for food,
plotting assassinations,is not compliance liberals. (Clinton felt so strongly that Saddam maintained his
WMD program that he bombed a factory,proudly telling
America how he had taken out a Chemical Weapon factory.
Got a whole lot of people to get in line for lying about Saddam right liberals).
The bottom line is,
NO BODY KNEW FOR CERTAIN WHAT WEAPONS SADDAM POSSESSED
UNTIL AMERICA HAD 130,000 SETS OF BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

Understand liberals,Republicans want you to go forward with impeachment,we want to put ALL the facts
about the lead up to War in front of the American people.
The years and years and years of Clintons,Edwards,
Reid,Gore,and the rest of the super intelligent crowd
telling us how dangerous Saddam was.
We want you democrats to explain to America if all
the evidence was so clear that Bush was lying,
WHY DID YOU DEMOCRATS VOTE FOR THE WAR!!
The 9/11 commission that you liberals abide by so
much,signed off by democrats and Republicans,plainly
stated that Bush did not lie or manipulate pre-war
intelligence.
The Washington Post reported that all the evidence
was there for everyone to see,ALL THE PRE-WAR EVIDENCE
WAS AVAILABLE FOR ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO REVIEW.
That is why we pushed for the impeachment vote today
and your liberal heroes ran.

Let me repeat that for you liberal,your elected liberal heroes in congress ran,ducked under the table,retreated when it was time to put up or shut up
with all your cut and paste propaganda and conspiracy theories.
You liberals don't care about Freedom,taking out terrorist dictators that commit genocide,rape,torture
murder by the thousands.
All you care about is pushing your political agenda
and your silly little war on Bush.
The people in this country and abroad that know who
the real enemies to freedom are(you know,the terrorist and communist dictators like your buddy Hugo and Castro) will continue to fight them and do our best to
secure a democratic and free society that represents all people of all religions and ethnicity despite you
liberals and your terrorist hugging agenda.

Here are a couple of distin... (Below threshold)

Here are a couple of distinctions you might have overlooked, Brian:

1) Paul's campaign is in the REPUBLICAN primary, while Kucinich's measure was in the US HOUSE. Purely an internal party matter vs. a matter that, in theory, transcends party affiliation.

2) The Republicans openly admitted that they did not agree with the impeachment, but wished it discussed openly and not quietly killed -- much like my posting the John Edwards ads.

3) Since WHEN is "taking someone from the opposition at their word and helping them to achieve their stated goal and doing what they wish you to do" a dirty trick? Oh, yeah, when the member of the opposition is a raving loony and an embarrassment to the rest of the opposition, who'd prefer he be locked in the basement like the crazy aunt.

J.

JT, you're wasting bandwidt... (Below threshold)

JT, you're wasting bandwidth on Brian. The distinction between party politics and official House business is too nuanced for a brain like his.

It amuses me to see nogo et als shifting into their "deflect" mode. I take it they're too uncomfortable defending their Fearless Leaders' bumbling.

Or maybe they are embarrassed to admit they support DK's candidacy.

This is truly funny. There... (Below threshold)

This is truly funny. There have been a number of liberals who have jumped in here over the last few years arguing for Bush's impeachment. There have been many who claim that Congress' low approval ratings directly reflect their inability to do so - along with their unwillingness to stop the war. Kucinich actually throws it out there in the open and the 'Rethuglicans' are the bad guys for saying, "Alright, let's have that discussion."

??

Then all we hear is "It's a dirty trick!"

Do you want him Bush/Cheney impeached or not? Here's your chance. You should be cheering Kucinich on.

Or is it that you're truly embarrassed by Kucinich, and all your elected liberals who run from this like the plague? (Remember, this is the Kucinich who was sucking up to Assad while his WMD plans were being bombed - and none of you had much, if anything, to say about it.) But you won't admit that so nogo, cartman and herman deflect the conversation here to arguing the merits of Clinton's impeachment, Brian compares apples and oranges, JFO attacks Jay and dr lava gets disemvoweled.

Tragic comedy.

So we had some fun yesterda... (Below threshold)
Cousin Dave:

So we had some fun yesterday. Steny Hoyer seems to be one of the more responsible (or at least tactically smarter) people on the Left, and over the course of the year it's been interesting to watch, as it slowly dawns on him that he's been put in charge of a kindergarten class. Meanwhile, every time the going gets tough, Pelosi disappears and leaves him holding the ball.

Meanwhile, every t... (Below threshold)
Meanwhile, every time the going gets tough, Pelosi disappears and leaves him holding the ball.

That's a good point. Where was Nancy all day yesterday, anyway?

"That's a good point. W... (Below threshold)

"That's a good point. Where was Nancy all day yesterday, anyway?"

Pelosi was trying to secure another passport to Syria?

or

Pelosi was too busy chasing Code Pink ptotesters out of her rose garden with her broomstick?

or

She was hiding under Murtha's desk.

cartman"Secondl... (Below threshold)
914:

cartman

"Secondly, Clinton was disbarred in Arkansas and I think fined. His crime was handled by a court of law, nothing about what He did endangered the country."

Really? how about boinking an intern reapeatedly while He should have been payin attention to the Al Quaeda threat? y'know, the threat indicated in the documents that Sandy burglarpant's stole out of the archive's..

And if thats Your standard of fairness? where are the criminal charges against Cheney that are being handled by a court of law??

As for "Quisp" Kookcinich.. I think its time for Him? to have a close encounter of the absent minded kind!

Beam Me up Shirley!

Here are a couple of dis... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Here are a couple of distinctions you might have overlooked, Brian:

Weak, Jay. Even for you.

Purely an internal party matter vs. a matter that, in theory, transcends party affiliation.

So? It's "dishonest" to be disingenuous internally, but good to be disingenuous in national politics?

2) The Republicans openly admitted that they did not agree with the impeachment, but wished it discussed openly and not quietly killed -- much like my posting the John Edwards ads.

Oh, bull. The Democrats also openly admitted they did not agree with the impeachment. Or did you miss the "despite opposition from Democratic leaders" part of the article? Or Hoyer's quote, "Impeachment is not on our agenda"? Republicans did not "wish it discussed". Was anyone calling for a debate on the issue? It was a "a Republican-led effort to force the vote" in an attempt to embarrass Democrats, pure and simple. But it didn't work.

3) Since WHEN is "taking someone from the opposition at their word and helping them to achieve their stated goal and doing what they wish you to do" a dirty trick?

When you take a "raving loony's" resolution that has no support from either party, and would disappear without action, and delay the real business of Congress by making everyone drop what they're doing and react to it.

Or do you think that the full Congress should vote on every resolution brought by individuals of either party?

Oh, and who said "dirty trick"? Is that some new vocabulary you're trying to work into the discussion? Seems to have worked on Oyster.

"The bottom line is,this wa... (Below threshold)
cartman:

"The bottom line is,this was yet another chance to carry through on your "Bush lied"propaganda that you and your liberal heroes in congress keep spewing,and your elected liberals ran from it faster than they have been running from the terrorist for the last few years."

Well it looks like Kucinich put up. I too wish the rest had the guts to go after these traitors to America.


"PUT UP OR SHUT UP LIBERALS!!"

Anyone that throws these traitors in Jail has my vote.

"The Republicans showed today that they want this to hit the floor so it can be debated in front of the
country to show how full of crap your cut and paste"

Yeah and the Democrats caved. The are just pussies. the Republicans are traitors.

"history revision of the past 10 years has been.
The democrats ran from that debate today,plain and simple."

Making them nothing more than the lesser of two evils.


"The downing st. memo is nothing but an unsigned piece
of paper handed off to someone by a "shadow" in a restaurant.No one officially stands behind or will testify in court the authenticity of this cherry picked
document."

That's a lie. The Downing Street "Memo" is actually the transcribed minutes of a meeting, in 2002, between the prime minister and his senior advisers. Both UK and US officials have neither affirmed or denied this (which they would if it was a lie) and have validated its authenticity in response to questions (as when Tony Blair replied to a press conference question by saying "That memo was written before we went to the UN.")


"Joe Wilson admitted himself in his senate report that
he felt like Iraq had sent a delegate to niger to work"

This is just poor thinking. The may have sent a delagate but as Wilson also pointed out the CIA report was "unequivocally wrong." A bipartsian congresional panel Unamiously backed this. So stop trying to mislead.

" Hillary,Bill,Kerry,Reid,Gore,Durbin,Pelosi,
intelligence,pentagon,Defense Dept.,English,CIA,
French,German,Egypt,Saudi,Israeli,UN...that said Saddam was a threat,retained WMD,ties to Al-Qaeda..."

There is also evidence they did not have access to all of the same intelligence that this administration did. But if the did they should be impeached as well for the same reason.


"Hitler,Stalin,and Mao are responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people.
By your logic liberal,if their is a difference of opinion,the world should have done nothing.The world
didn't in regards to Mao and Stalin,thank god we didn't
listen to idiot Chamberlain liberals in regard to Hitler."


Bah, Hussein was not Hitler he was contained and powerless. And we didn't do crap with Mao so quit acting like we did. The same regimime is in power and by many estimates will surpass us as a world power in the next 30 years or so.


"The worlds intelligence agencies,"

Must be why all of our allies got on board. Oh wait they didn't.

"democrats,Repub
the Americans people,and the press overwhelmingly saw
Saddam as a threat that did not comply with UN resolutions,Sanctions were a failure(Nancy Pelosi even acknowledged this)"

Based on lies ou can get people to believe alot. THis administration falsely tried to link Iraq to 9-11.

"Understand liberals,Republicans want you to go forward with impeachment,we want to put ALL the facts
about the lead up to War in front of the American people.
The years and years and years of Clintons,Edwards,
Reid,Gore,and the rest of the super intelligent crowd
telling us how dangerous Saddam was.
We want you democrats to explain to America if all"


So do I.


"the evidence was so clear that Bush was lying,
WHY DID YOU DEMOCRATS VOTE FOR THE WAR!!
The 9/11 commission that you liberals abide by so"

Because the evidence wasn't clear then. THis is not hard.


"The Washington Post reported that all the evidence
was there for everyone to see,ALL THE PRE-WAR EVIDENCE
WAS AVAILABLE FOR ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO REVIEW."

Well since we both agree the washington post is a valid source this link demonstrates that congress did not have accerss to ALL the same intelligence as the adminstration.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501813.html

"That is why we pushed for the impeachment vote today
and your liberal heroes ran."

The did. except for Kucinich.

"All you care about is pushing your political a
the real enemies to freedom are(you know,the terrorist and communist dictators like your buddy Hugo and Castro) will continue to fight them and do our best to
secure a democratic and free society that represents all people of all religions and ethnicity despite you
liberals and your terrorist hugging agenda."

People like you don't even know what freedom means and are willing to scarifice it anychance you get in order to keep us safe. President wants to collect your mail with a warrent "allright!" you say. Once to spy on your phone calls without a warrent "Hell YeaH!" you say. The president wants to waterboard "Go for it" You have never met a liberty you didn't want to give away.

Just so you know Untill wizbang starts deleting my posts I will not let you get away with any of your falsehoods.

cartman, get help for the ... (Below threshold)
Kat:

cartman, get help for the BDS. That is all. Thanks.

Cartman, perhaps if you did... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Cartman, perhaps if you didn't write so many falsehoods yourself, your little charge on the end would not have made me laugh so hard.

"Cartman, perhaps if you di... (Below threshold)
cartman:

"Cartman, perhaps if you didn't write so many falsehoods yourself, your little charge on the end would not have made me laugh so hard."

I notice you didn't list one falsehood. Why? Because you can't. So you make a sarcastic rejoinder and run away from the debate. This is the cowardice I was talking about. Don't engage me unless you are willing to use logic or evidence to go after my claims. You say I use falsehoods demonstrate that. Otherwise you are as effective as a fourth grader holding his breath to get his way.


"Based on lie's You can ... (Below threshold)
914:

"Based on lie's You can get people to believe a lot. this administration falsely tried to link Iraq to 911."

First of all Why?? if the administration is so powerful and all evil they needed no reason in the first place?
2nd Why did all the dem's clamor to get on board and vote for the resolution?

Because they were lied to with the same intelligence they had pre BUSH? No, they thought it would benefit their political aspiration's...

As for a link between Iraq and 911, how about all hijacker's were Arab muslim's...and Iraq has lot's of both..!

There's 1 link for starter's

Cartman, your comment was f... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Cartman, your comment was filled with lies. Here's just one:

Based on lies ou can get people to believe alot. THis administration falsely tried to link Iraq to 9-11.

The administration did not try to link Iraq to 9/11, that's a lie. In fact, the White House itself disclaimed the Czech claim that Atta had visited with an Iraqi agent in Prague.

Go back to your Conspiracy nut support group.

SPQR is there anthing that... (Below threshold)
cartman:

SPQR is there anthing that comes out of your mouth other than lies?

2002

"The regime has longstanding and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are Al Qaida terrorists inside Iraq." - George W. Bush Delivers Weekly Radio Address, White House (9/28/2002) - BushOnIraq.com

"We know that Iraq and al Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq. These include one very senior al Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks. We've learned that Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases." - President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002) - Whitehouse.gov

"(Since September 11) We learned more and more that there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the '90s, that it involved training, for example, on BW and CW, that al-Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved. The Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al-Qaeda organization." - Dick Cheney, Meet the Press, NBC (9/14/2003) - BushOnIraq.com

)f we had not paid any attention to the fact that al Qaeda was being hosted in Northeastern Iraq, part of poisons network producing ricin and cyanide that was intended to be used in attacks both in Europe, as well as in North Africa and ignored it, we would have been derelict in our duties and responsibilities." - Vice President Dick Cheney Remarks at Luncheon for Congressman Jim Gerlach, White House (10/3/2003) - BushOnIraq.com

So Now that I proven they did try to link Iraq to 9-11, it means I have not commited a falsehood you have. Got to liars anonmous meeting or something I won't let you get away with that crap.

Great post title, Kim. Kuc... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Great post title, Kim. Kucinich must know this is his only way to get that "fifteen minutes of fame."

I guess this could also be called, The Dennis Kucinich "I know I'll never get the Democratic Nomination, so here's Plan B for putting my face on the map" distraction tour. Featuring, The Nutroots. Well, someone's boat's a floatin'.

Cartman, At no po... (Below threshold)

Cartman,

At no point have you shown that Bush linked 9/11 to
Saddam.Stating pre-war intelligence collected in democratic and Republican administrations about Saddam's links to Al-Qaeda in no way proves that Bush said Saddam was responsible for 9/11.Bush has stated time and time again in the public arena that there are no ties to Saddam and 9/11.
Your evidence for linking them both is neither clear or conclusive,so this must be very HARD for you,needing facts and all.

But since you want to quote Iraq/Al-Qaeda ties,hear are some for you.

"Al-Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that Al-Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular,specifically including weapons development,Al-Qaeda would work cooperatively with the government of Iraq"
Bill Clinton Justice Dept.statement
from their indictment of Osama Bin Laden
1998

"You combine that with Sudan support for terrorism,their connections with Iraq on VX,and you combine that also with,the chemical precurser issue,and
Sudan's leadership support for Osama Bin Laden,and you
have got a pretty clear cut case."
U.N. ambassador Bill Richardson
August 29,1998 on CNN

"U.S. intelligence does not know how much of the substance was produced at al shifa or what happened to it."But he said intelligence exists linking Bin Laden to al shifa's current and past operators,the Iraqi nerve gas experts,and the national Islamic front in Sudan."Clarke said U.S. intelligence was sure Iraq was
behind the VX precursor produced at the factory."
Richard Clarke
Washington Post
Jan. 23,1999

William Cohen,Clinton's defense secretary told
the 9/11 commission on March 23,2004.Cohen told them
an executive from al Shifa had "traveled to Baghdad
to meet with the father of the VX program."

"We know for certain that Iraq and Sudan have been
cooperating with Bin Laden on CBRN(Chemical,Biological,
radiological,and other nuclear)weapons acquisition and
development.
Micheal Scheuer
ran CIA's Bin Laden unit from
1996-1999.
"Through our enemies eyes"2002.

"Iraq continues to be a safehaven,transit point,or
operational node for groups and individuals who direct
violence against the United States,Israel,and other allies.Iraq has a long history of supporting terrorism.During the last four decades,it has altered its targets to reflect changing priorities and goals.It
continues to harbor and sustain a number of smaller anti-Israel terrorist groups and to actively encourage violence against Isreal.Regarding the Iraq-Al-Qaeda relationship,reporting from sources of varying credibility points to number of contracts,incidents of training,and discussions of Iraqi safehaven for Osama
Bin Laden and his organization dating from the early
1990's.
Iraqi Support for Terrorism
CIA report published in 2003

"On Sept.12,2002,we can hardly ignore the terrorist threat and serious danger that Saddam would allow his arsenal to he used in aid of terror."
John Edwards
speech given on Sept.12,2002

Bunch of crazy,warmongering neo-cons huh cartman.


"we didn't do crap with Mao so quit acting like we did"
What part of "the world didn't in regards to Mao and
Stalin,think God we didn't listen to idiot Chamberlin liberals in regard to Hitler" do you not understand.
"We didn't in regards to Mao and Stalin" to people that can read would indicate that we DIDN'T do anything
about them.

cartman, "people ... (Below threshold)

cartman,

"people like you don't even know what freedom means"

Coming from a liberal that would rather whine and
cry about international phone calls being tapped and
terrorist who rape,cut the eyes out,limbs off,make videos
of beheading people,blow up men women and children at restaurants,shops,schools and playgrounds getting a littler bit of water poured over their faces is absolutely laughable.Could you possibly kiss Al-Qaeda's
butt any harder.
Nazis,communist,and the terrorist who actually were and are taking people's freedoms away were not defeated
by liberals like you who find any way they can to undermine our leadership and the Soldiers who fight on
the front lines.They were and are being defeated by
leadership and our Soldiers who confront our enemies,find their weakness's and bring them down.

I know cartman thinks he is sooooo important that the
government is listening to when he is meeting his buddies at the coffee shop or making more bumper stickers and all the really important things liberals do to bring freedom to the world.

But unless you are coresponding with known terrorist
groups,Bush,NSA,CIA,and anybody with an IQ above Ted
Kennedy's blood alcohol level really don't care what you are doing.
I am sure cartman has not been stopped once from attending any of his terrorist hugging activities but
these measures and the patriot act among many other things the Bush administration has enacted have stopped
a lot of terrorist from killing a lot of people.

If these measures are so bad,why do your liberal heroes in congress continue to approve them over and
over and over again.

"Bah,Saddam was not Hitler,he was contained and powerless."

"The team has found evidence of "WMD-related program activities" but no actual Chemical,biological,or nuclear weapons.In addition to details of dormant WMD
programs,the Oct.2003 report also includes discoveries
of non-WMD programs banned by the United Nations and concealed during the IAEA and UNMovic inspections that
began in 2002.The discoveries made by the ISG include
a "clandestine network of labortories.. that contained
equipment ... suitable for continuing chemical biological weapons research"and vials of "live C botulinum Okra B from which a biological agent can be
produced.
Iraq Survey Group
Duelfer Report

While little proof exists,apparently Iraq hoped to restart all banned weapons programs as soon as multilateral sanctions against it had been dropped,a prospect that the Iraqi government saw coming soon.

Smuggling was used by Iraq to rebuild as much of its WMD program as could be hidden from UN weapons inspectors. Yet,there still existed no current stockpile of weapons.

Iraq used procurement contracts allowed under the Oil
for food program to buy influence amongst UN security
Council member states including France,China,and Russia,as well as dozens of prominent journalists and anti-sanctions activists.

Retained WMD equipment and was smuggling more in.

Made millions off of Oil for food to bribe the UN
security council and buy weapons and equipment.

Only a liberal could see this as Saddam being
"contained and powerless."

cartman, "T... (Below threshold)

cartman,

"This is just poor thinking,they may have sent a delegate but as Wilson also pointed out,the CIA report is "unequivocally wrong"a bipartisan congressional panel
Unanimously backed this.So stop trying to mislead."

mislead,it's his own damn words.

"Wilson said that a former prime minister of Niger,Ibrahim Assane Mayaki,was unaware of any sales
contract with Iraq,but said that in June 1999 a businessman approached him,insisting that he meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss"expanding commercial relations"between Niger and Iraq... which Mayaki interpreted to mean they wanted to discuss yellowcake sales. A report CIA officials drafted after debriefing Wilson said that "although the meeting took place,Mayaki let the matter drop due to UN sanctions on Iraq."
These are Wilson's own words.

Considering tons of yellowcake were found in Iraq
and Saddam didn't need anymore goats,"expanding
commercial relations" likely meant what Bush said
and what British intelligence still stand by,and
thats Iraq "tried" to acquire yellowcake.

according to the former Niger mining minister,Wilson
told his CIA contacts,
"Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998."

also Wilson's own words.

Wilson was found by democrats and Republicans to be
misleading and lacking credibility by the SIC.

Wilson lied when he said his wife had nothing to do
with sending him.(check her memo cartman).

wilson was found to be misleading when referring to forged documents that the US did not even have yet.

Wilson said that Ibrahim Assane Mayaki interpreted that the Iraqis sending a delegation was about discussing yellowcake.

Iraq was found to have tons of yellowcake for their
"non-existent"nuclear ambitions.

Yea right cartman
I'm the one "trying to mislead."

"At no point have you shown... (Below threshold)
cartman:

"At no point have you shown that Bush linked 9/11 to
Saddam."

Oh I'm sorry. I figured demonstrating How Over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again, the administration oficals mentioned Al-Quaeda and iraq in the same sentence would constitute proof that they were linking the two together. You know, talking about one then casually mentioning the other, again and again and again and right after 9-11. But hey, it seems you need something more. Well here is Bush blaiming Iraq for aiding in 9-11.

The use of armed forces against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. [Bush's Letter to Congress, 3/21/03]

So you see it is was fine to invade Iraq they aided the terrorist.

Now since we have a quote that unequivically blames Iraq for aiding those responsible for 9-11 and since you have made clear thatjust mentiong the two together doesn't count as linking the democrats are innocent of that by your logic.

"We didn't in regards to Mao and Stalin" to people that can read would indicate that we DIDN'T do anything
about them."

Your right I did misread that. I din't think even a republican was that crazy. You would have rather started WWW III with the Soviets? Good thinking. I always wanted to see what the road warrior would be like in real life.


"Coming from a liberal that would rather whine and
cry about international phone calls being tapped and
terrorist who rape,cut the eyes out,limbs off,make videos
of beheading people,blow up men women and children at restaurants,shops,schools and playgrounds getting a littler bit of water poured over their faces is absolutely laughable.Could you possibly kiss Al-Qaeda's
butt any harder."

Only a republican would argue that torturing people just like Good Ole' Saddam is the way to protect the country. Could you try any harder to be more like Al Qaeda? maybe you can go to one of their camps and they can show you some new torture techniques.


"Nazis,communist,and the terrorist who actually were and are taking people's freedoms away were not defeated
by liberals like you who find any way they can to undermine our leadership and the Soldiers who fight on
the front lines."

Hate to break it to you but we didn't torture the nazi's. In fact Many of the vets of World War II who interogated the Nazi's have complained about the torture. So Sadist like you were not responsible for beating the Nazi's it was Americans who did not compromise their values.

"I know cartman thinks he is sooooo important that the
government is listening to when he is meeting his buddies at the coffee shop or making more bumper stickers and all the really important things liberals do to bring freedom to the world."

Who the hell knows who they are spying on. that is the whole point of a warrent. Why do you think those were required? So the Judges and cops could have a fun meet and greet.

"But unless you are coresponding with known terrorist"

And your proof of this? That they are limiting it to known terrorist. Again that is the point of a warrent. You see it breaks down like this the cops they can't put a bug into your house because you look like a drug dealer. They have to go show a judge that thye have some evidence you might be a drug dealer. it is very simple really. It works the same way with spying on people on the phone. Go to a judge who makes sure no abuse is happening. if you are not commiting abuse there is no reason not to go.


"I am sure cartman has not been stopped once from attending any of his terrorist hugging activities but
these measures and the patriot act among many other things the Bush administration has enacted have stopped
a lot of terrorist from killing a lot of people."

Why do you say that because we haven't been hit agian? That is some first class logic there. My uncle has started taking his prostate medication since 9-11 and we haven't been hit since then either. maybe it is the prostate medication. Correlation does not equal causation. This is simple logic.

"If these measures are so bad,why do your liberal heroes in congress continue to approve them over and
over and over again."

Cause they are weak, and let traiters have their way. Except for kucinich.

"The team has found evidence of "WMD-related program activities" but no actual Chemical,biological,or nuclear weapons.In addition to details of dormant WMD
programs,the Oct.2003 report also includes discoveries"

Tch, Tch, Tch, but no WMDs not a one. maybe there was fertilizer in Sadamm's garden, you could use that to justify this nonsesical war.


While little proof exists
You said it all there. "Well maybe you should have said no proof exists"

" Yet,there still existed no current stockpile of weapons."

Not a one.


"Iraq used procurement contracts allowed under the Oil
for food program to buy influence amongst UN security
Council member states including France,China,and Russia,as well as dozens of prominent journalists and anti-sanctions activists."

Which really built up its decimated millitary.


"Retained WMD equipment and was smuggling more in."

Not a single WMD.

"Made millions off of Oil for food to bribe the UN
security council and buy weapons and equipment."

And still was bottled in surronded by coalition forces.


Anyway that's all for the night have fun at your next clan rally. maybe you could read up on what the ancient Asyyrians did to their prisoners. it might satisy your sadisim for the night.

cartman, "thats a... (Below threshold)

cartman,

"thats a lie.The downing street memo is actually the transcribed minutes of a meeting,in 2002, between the prime minister and his senior advisors."

There is no original document,signed,that anyone in
Britain will stand behind or will stand up in a court of law.These minutes were typed up by someone(maybe Dan Rather can find them for you)and are not even "all"of the minutes of the meeting that were taken.They are selective excerpts typed up and handed to someone to
try and prove that Bush always wanted to go to war and
fixed the intelligence around his push for war.

The fact that you liberals still quote cut and paste
crap like this to push for impeachment and win your war
on Bush is exactly why we want this impeachment nonsense debated in front of the world.

There was no "fixing the intelligence around the push
for war."

The 9/11 commission said there was no manipulation or
lying about pre-war intelligence.

The Senate Intelligence Committee found in 2004
that:
"The committee concluded that intelligence analyst were not pressured to change or tailor their views to support arguments for the invasion of Iraq."

"I think it's important to know that the intelligence they gave was under their judgement-the
right perception."
John Corzine D-NJ
SIC report 20004

Cartman's Washington post link does not prove that congress was mislead,it's states that information that
was top level classified was not released to people who
continue to leak our nations secrets or cut and paste information to further their political agenda.Not one ounce of proof that congress did not get all of the conclusions by our intelligence agencies.

Your downing st memo does not prove that Bush "rushed
to war" because it states "Bush saw war as inevitable".

Bush went to the UN two more times and it was eight months before we went to war.

The prospect of taking Saddam out with force was being talked about and researched by the US and many other intelligence agencies around the world since the
end of the first Gulf war.

This cut and paste "memo" has been debunked and debunked.Our congress looked into it and found nothing
to support the conspiracy theories by liberals.
So please cartman,keep quoting it.

You can add it to your:

NSA hysteria that your liberal heroes in
congress continue to approve.

Bush did 9/11

Gitmo hysteria(not enough lemon chicken and soccer for your terrorist friends huh cartman)

Bush caused global warming.

Bush tortures terrorist.

Bush is Hitler.

Bush lied about the war.

It/s all about Haliburton(has micheal moore and Boxer
sold their stock yet).

Bush outed Plame.

Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans

and all the other super intelligent issues liberals
have brought up while us knuckle dragging idiots do
everything we can to defeat the REAL dangers that confront people who want to live in freedom.

cartman, what a j... (Below threshold)

cartman,

what a joke.

You complained that nobody could debunk the supposed
"facts"you laid out in earlier posts,tham come back and
either misrepresent what was posted or thought that name calling is somehow a substitute for showing that you know what your talking about.
Saying "how do you know what they are doing"does not
prove in any way that your allegations are true.

Continuing to say"no WMD's found "makes a whole lot
of sense considering that at no time was it stated that
WMD's were found.

Being a smart ass because you can not back up your allegation that Bush stated that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 once again only shows you to be
laughably ignorant.

It probably is a good idea for you to go for the rest of the night before your mother grounds you for staying
up past your bedtime.

I dunno why I'm bothering w... (Below threshold)

I dunno why I'm bothering with this, but:

1) Japan attacked the United States at Pearl Harbor.

2) Japan had an alliance with Nazi Germany going back years before Pearl Harbor.

3) HITLER was behind Pearl Harbor!!!!!

That's your logic, in an appropriately-named "nutshell".

Pointing out that Saddam had had dealings with Al Qaeda does NOT mean he was involved with any or all of their dealings.

If you stop shouting hysterically for a moment, try inhaling. You're hurting yourself by depriving your brain of oxygen, and it's showing.

J.

I mean seriously you have t... (Below threshold)
dr lava:

I mean seriously you have to be an absolute moron to be still supporting this president and this vice president.

What kind of conservative submissive sissy takes lie after lie after lie from these fools and doesn't get furious?
Are there any real men around here or just a lot of submissive authoritarian pansies?

Yeah... I thought so. No Henry Rollins in this Wizbang crowd.

"There is no original docum... (Below threshold)
cartman:

"There is no original document,signed,that anyone in
Britain will stand behind or will stand up in a court of law.These minutes were typed up by someone(maybe Dan Rather can find them for you)and are not even "all"of the minutes of the meeting that were taken.They are selective excerpts typed up and handed to someone to
try and prove that Bush always wanted to go to war and"

AND NO ONE DENIES IT. And when asked about it Blair said that "That memo was written before we went to the UN" How about "That memo is inaccurate" or "That memo is a load a crap" Didn't do anything of the sort and never has. What part of this are ou incapable of understanding?


"The fact that you liberals still quote cut and paste
crap like this to push for impeachment and win your war
on Bush is exactly why we want this impeachment nonsense debated in front of the world."

Yeah, me too. THat would the world can see what a bunch of traiters these guys are. our poor ability to reason does not change that.

"There was no "fixing the intelligence around the push
for war.""

Except that the intelligence was "fixed" around a push for war.

"The 9/11 commission said there was no manipulation or
lying about pre-war intelligence."

The 9-11 report was not intended to comment on Iraq and does so only very briefl addressing whether Iraq was involved in the attack on 9-11. Paul Wolfie argued there was Colin Powell said ther was no justification for that. I am not aware of any comment on the Intellegence regarding the Iraq war. We do know that the Republican controlled congree refused to go to phase two in their investigation of intellegence on the Iraq war (mabe scared of what would come out)


"The Senate Intelligence Committee found in 2004
that:
"The committee concluded that intelligence analyst were not pressured to change or tailor their views to support arguments for the invasion of Iraq."

Also fomr that:

"But although he approved the report, Rockefeller said it fails to explain fully the pressures on the intelligence community "when the most senior officials in the Bush administration had already forcefully and repeatedly stated their conclusions publicly."

And Many CIA officials have come forward claiming they felt tremendous pressure from this administration particalarl Chene to get evidence linking Iraq had WMDs

"Cartman's Washington post link does not prove that congress was mislead,it's states that information that
was top level classified was not released to people who
continue to leak our nations secrets or cut and paste information to further their political agenda."

It also proves that this administration keeps intweleigence from Congress some of which probably had to with Iraq. making the claim that congress had the same info at the least unprovable at the most a blatnet lie.

"Your downing st memo does not prove that Bush "rushed
to war" because it states "Bush saw war as inevitable".

and shows inteliigence was being filed around going to war.


"Bush went to the UN two more times and it was eight months before we went to war."

ANd then disregarded the UN when they wished for no invasion of Iraq? What is your point. He Saddam was complying by that. Inspectors were back in.

"The prospect of taking Saddam out with force was being talked about and researched by the US and many other intelligence agencies around the world since the
end of the first Gulf war."

Yet it was this administration that did Cowboyed into this war despite the fact there was no imminent danger illegal striking preemptivley

"This cut and paste "memo" has been debunked and debunked.Our congress looked into it and found nothing
to support the conspiracy theories by liberals.
So please cartman,keep quoting it."

I will becsauase saying it is debuked is nothing but another one of your lies.

"Bush did 9/11"

Nope just used it as a pretext for invading Iraq.


"Gitmo hysteria(not enough lemon chicken and soccer for your terrorist friends huh cartman)"

Exporting our values acting like nations we despie by not trying people when we claim we have enough evidence for a conviction.


"Bush caused global warming."

Nope just doctors reports that shows it sis true.

"Bush tortures terrorist."

Well that is true (maybe the first truth out of your mouth). Waterboarding is torture.

"Bush is Hitler."

Nope just the wors president in history who is trying to destry our ideals. he hasn't acheived Hitler status.


"Bush lied about the war."

Very True.

"It/s all about Haliburton(has micheal moore and Boxer
sold their stock yet)."
No idea, but I bet Cheney's profits are growing.

"Bush outed Plame."

That was Libby. He is a convicted Felon now.

"Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans"

Nah just took a nap when he found out they were down.

"have brought up while us knuckle dragging idiots do
everything we can to defeat the REAL dangers that confront people who want to live in freedom."

Like takig away Habeus Corpus. That really works for the cause of freedom. It's only "the great writ" One of the most important legal principlas since the Magna freaking carta.

"what a joke."If y... (Below threshold)
cartman:

"what a joke."

If you are refering to your arguments I agree.


"You complained that nobody could debunk the supposed
"facts"you laid out in earlier posts,tham come back and
either misrepresent what was posted or thought that name calling is somehow a substitute for showing that you know what your talking about.
Saying "how do you know what they are doing"

Typical Republican. Calls peoples names then cries like a baby when they get called one back. For the record I actually never called you a name, but I will say you act like a baby. I suppose the how do you know what the are doing went over your head. It's the whole reason warrents are required for anthing to prevent abuse. To go before a judge and say I have reason to beleive X is breaking the law. It is one of the corner stones of our republic which you apparently hate.


"prove in any way that your allegations are true."

It proves the are ignoring the Fisa lawa. Grounds for impeachment. He if you don't think they did I am sure you will agree iunity for any crimes for telecomm officals is not needed. No crime no reason for imunity is there?

"Continuing to say"no WMD's found "makes a whole lot
of sense considering that at no time was it stated that
WMD's were found."

No It is to get through your head that there were No WMDs menaing Iraq had almost no means of striking at us. The couldn't do it with their armed forces and they couldn't do it with WMDs saying that they might be able to do it in the futrue is silly since your point was that the threat of Iraq was NOT contained.


"Being a smart ass because you can not back up your allegation that Bush stated that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 once again only shows you to be
laughably ignorant."

Well that's true if ou disregard the whole speech were he said His right to invade Iraq comes from 9-11. I even posted it for you.


M advie to you is to breath from the diaphram. you are not getting enough air to oxegen to yoiur brain.

If our post was to me Jay T... (Below threshold)
cartman:

If our post was to me Jay Tea you completly missed what I was saing. I am not arguing that Iraq was involved with 9-11. I am arguing that this administration used 9-11 as a justification for iraq and even suggested at times that Iraq had something to do with it.

So my logic in no way flawed.

Cartman, your response to m... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Cartman, your response to me in #38 never does quote the White House as stating that Iraq was involved in 9/11, just involved with Al Queda. You've not "proven" anything. And you are misrepresenting the Downing Street Memo rather blatantly.

These are both long discredited memes that expired for the BDS nuts year. This is nutso crap that we discredited literally years ago and you are still flogging it? Jay Tea is right, your oxygen supply is the one that is compromised.

While calling the Bush administration dishonest, you remain the liar.

Sheesh, some more examples ... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Sheesh, some more examples of Cartman's incoherence.

""Bush outed Plame."

That was Libby. He is a convicted Felon now."

No, that was Richard Armitage. Libby was neither charged nor convicted of outing Plame. You obviously have no clue about the Libby case.

"Like takig away Habeus Corpus. That really works for the cause of freedom. It's only "the great writ" One of the most important legal principlas since the Magna freaking carta."

Bush has not "takig away Habeus Corpus". This is just another incoherent rant on your part. The Bush administration has been following reasonable interpretations of Supreme Court precedent that date to the Franklin Roosevelt administration on the detention of combatants. Go read Ex Parte Quirin some day and learn something.

Dennis seems to be the only... (Below threshold)
Peace for President:

Dennis seems to be the only man with real courage right now.
He is standing up to this administration,
he is standing up to the health insurance companies,

he is standing up for our constitution!

you should be thanking Kucinich right now for his bravery, somtimes i wonder if America deserves a leader this strong.




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