Over at the Huffington Post, investigative journalist Seymour Hersh (who's pretty much been resting on the laurels of My Lai for almost literally my entire life) discussed how the United States needs to elect Barack Obama as president if we wish to mend our relations with the Muslim world.
(Hat tip: my colleague Steve Crickmore at Blue. By the way, Steve, Hersh did not "break" Abu Ghraib; the US Army broke the story itself. He was just the first to actually report what they said.)
I read Steve's piece, then over to HuffPo (after having all my shots) and read the piece. In a nutshell, the fact that Obama's biological father was a Muslim (as was the man his mother married next) will somehow win over those who currently dislike and distrust us.
This is so barkingly stupid, it can only have been first published at HuffPo.
First off, the rumors of Obama's alleged Muslim upbringing have been bounced around for some time, and each time they have been greeted with howls of derision and rounds of denials. His biological father (who divorced his mother and returned to Kenya when Barack Jr. was two) is described as an athiest. His stepfather, who oversaw Barack Jr.'s upbringing up to the fifth grade, is described as a "non-practicing Muslim." And rumors that Obama attended militant Muslim schools while in Indonesia have been strenuously refuted and denied.
But let's presume that both Obama Sr. and Mr. Soetoro were both fanatical "stealth Muslims" who were both fixated on turning young Barack Jr. into some sort of "Manchurian-by-way-of-Mecca Candidate" and the above allegations are true. he got out of their influence at the age of ten, for heaven's sake.
But that's just the stupid part. Now we move to the really stupid.
Remember the "Mohammed cartoon" riots a few years ago? It turned out that the most inflammatory cartoons (the one of Mohammed being sodomized by a pig, for example) weren't even part of the original set. They were made up by some Imams to fire up the Muslim masses -- and it worked. A lot of people died from those riots. And a lot of people let themselves be intimidated into obeying the strictures of Islam -- out of fear of physical violence.
Remember the "Koran down the toilet" riots? It didn't matter that the "insult" being alleged was physically impossible. The Muslims rioted again, people died, and again a lot of people let themselves be intimidated into obeying the strictures of Islam -- out of fear of physical violence.
Now, of all the major religions in the world, Islam still maintains a death penalty for apostasy -- for leaving the faith. Renouncing one's Muslim faith is grounds for death, usually by stoning, but far more informal methods are just as acceptable.
Whether or not Obama ever was a Muslim is pretty much irrelevant -- as we see, reality and truth are no barriers to Islamic rage. All we need is for a few Imams torqued at the US (and lord knows there are no shortages of those in the world) to say that Obama had, indeed, committed a valid conversion to Islam as a youth, and now calls himself a Christian. That makes him an apostate, and from there it's a simple hop to say that it is the holy duty of every Muslim in the world to either bring him back to Allah, or send him there directly. And what would it say of a nation that it would elect as its president a man who had seen the glory and truth and greatness of Islam, but rejected it?
OK, that's the really stupid part. Now we have to move on to the mind-bogglingly stupid part, the part that so offends common sense that it could only have been published in the Huffington Post.
As I said in the title, this is about Identity Politics -- the notion that WHAT we are is more important than WHO we are, that our ancestry and genetics and affiliations matter far more than what we say and do and think for ourselves.
Senator Obama has already demonstrated his grasp of foreign relations quite thoroughly. Some time ago, within the space of a few days last August, he not only promised to not use nuclear weapons in any circumstances whatsoever, but to invade Pakistan -- a Muslim nation and a nuclear power.
As we've seen (partly thanks to Osama Bin Laden's "strong horse/weak horse" statement), Muslims tend to respect strength. Here he have a would-be president of the United States threatening a Muslim nation while simultaneously tying one arm behind the United States' back.
But under Identity Politics, that's irrelevant. That Obama is half-black and the son of a Muslim and has a Muslim name (Barack Hussein Obama Jr.) will trump everything else.
Personally, I think there's plenty of reason to reject Obama. The guy's a lightweight, an empty suit. He's a Rorschach blot of a candidate, allowing people to project whatever they want in a president on to him.
And to give any weight to how the fundamentally irrational Islamists might or might not feel about who we elect as president is just wrong. By that logic, we ought to not elect Hillary Clinton, because women have no place in poltics in the Islamist world.
Thanks, but I'll pass.
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Comments (77)
This is the same Seymour He... (Below threshold)1. Posted by Oyster | November 19, 2007 11:48 AM | Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
This is the same Seymour Hersch who says what he writes and what he says can be quite different. Or is it that he writes that he what writes and he says are different? Or something....
1. Posted by Oyster | November 19, 2007 11:48 AM |
Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 11:48
2. Posted by 914 | November 19, 2007 12:09 PM | Score: 4 (4 votes cast)
No more Clintons or Bushs in the White House! lets put someone new in there like Alfred E Newman or Tiger Woods? enough of these meccacca candidates already.
2. Posted by 914 | November 19, 2007 12:09 PM |
Score: 4 (4 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 12:09
3. Posted by Bob | November 19, 2007 12:41 PM | Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
Western Culture and islam are not compatible. We will never submit to the political ideology of terrorist islam, but the libs will.
3. Posted by Bob | November 19, 2007 12:41 PM |
Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 12:41
4. Posted by Gmac | November 19, 2007 1:17 PM | Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
Bob, they already have. How many times did the Clinton's have their favorite terrorist for sleep overs durring the 8 years they occupied the White House? How many others did they welcome as visitors?
That someone could postulate such utter tripe is astounding. Giving the reins of power to someone so utterly unfit borders on complete insanity, which is indeed where the Democrat party is today.
Doing it because it would appease the islamofacists is insane.
4. Posted by Gmac | November 19, 2007 1:17 PM |
Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 13:17
5. Posted by Jerry in Detroit | November 19, 2007 1:22 PM | Score: 0 (4 votes cast)
As I recall, Obama took his oath of office on a copy of the Koran that belonged to Thomas Jefferson. This is the same Koran that Thomas Jefferson read then sent the first Marines in Tripoli. In essence, Obama has openly signified his intent to attack Islam. Who's he going to attack? Riyadh?
5. Posted by Jerry in Detroit | November 19, 2007 1:22 PM |
Score: 0 (4 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 13:22
6. Posted by Oyster | November 19, 2007 1:26 PM | Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
"Who's he going to attack? Riyadh?"
No. Pakistan.
6. Posted by Oyster | November 19, 2007 1:26 PM |
Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 13:26
7. Posted by Maggie | November 19, 2007 1:32 PM | Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
It wasn't Obama who was sworn in with a koran,
it was Ellison who used it for oath taking.
Wonder if he was using kitman at the time.
7. Posted by Maggie | November 19, 2007 1:32 PM |
Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 13:32
8. Posted by WildWillie | November 19, 2007 1:48 PM | Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
OBAMA is the reason democrats shouldn't be taken seriously. He is the "image" without substance stance the demo's take so many times. Now a man like Bill Richardson would get some attention from republicans, because there is real experience there. But no, the demo's put their money and time in Obama. ww
8. Posted by WildWillie | November 19, 2007 1:48 PM |
Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 13:48
9. Posted by JFO | November 19, 2007 2:05 PM | Score: -14 (16 votes cast)
Gmac
Well. that's what happened it in 2000 and 2004 so what's your point? How do you like your choice now?
9. Posted by JFO | November 19, 2007 2:05 PM |
Score: -14 (16 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 14:05
10. Posted by WildWillie | November 19, 2007 3:10 PM | Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Except for immigration, I am still totally supportive of GW. We republicans are more loyal to this country and our presidents then JFO and his ilk even come close to understanding. ww
10. Posted by WildWillie | November 19, 2007 3:10 PM |
Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 15:10
11. Posted by JFO | November 19, 2007 3:27 PM | Score: -9 (11 votes cast)
Your "ilk" is a very small "ilk (as is your mind) and growing smaller and smaller by the day.
11. Posted by JFO | November 19, 2007 3:27 PM |
Score: -9 (11 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 15:27
12. Posted by Clancy | November 19, 2007 3:39 PM | Score: 8 (10 votes cast)
JFO - You seriously think Kerry or Gore would have been a better choice. And you think I'm insane...
12. Posted by Clancy | November 19, 2007 3:39 PM |
Score: 8 (10 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 15:39
13. Posted by epador | November 19, 2007 3:42 PM | Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
Can anyone offer an example of when appeasement has worked, much less worked with a Muslim nation?
13. Posted by epador | November 19, 2007 3:42 PM |
Score: 5 (7 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 15:42
14. Posted by JFO | November 19, 2007 4:01 PM | Score: -9 (11 votes cast)
r mmm wld hv bn bttr chc thn th dp n th WH.
14. Posted by JFO | November 19, 2007 4:01 PM |
Score: -9 (11 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 16:01
15. Posted by DJ Drummond | November 19, 2007 4:33 PM | Score: 6 (8 votes cast)
Stunning reparte', JFO.
I'm sure your entire 7th grade gym class is impressed ...
15. Posted by DJ Drummond | November 19, 2007 4:33 PM |
Score: 6 (8 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 16:33
16. Posted by Snooper | November 19, 2007 5:50 PM | Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
Identity Politics, Multiculturalism and Political Correctness, are cancers of each and every society.
Proponents of such atrocious and repugnant ideals are the over-emotional weaklings akin to family members of an alcoholic and need Alanon to help them thru the process of another disease called co-dependency and the aftermath of being People Pleasers.
When one spends their energies on pleasing every single pocket of whiners, one loses sight of the bigger picture.
Obama is one of these.
16. Posted by Snooper | November 19, 2007 5:50 PM |
Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 17:50
17. Posted by jpm100 | November 19, 2007 5:54 PM | Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
epador writes:
Seriously. If Hersh doesn't get dunce of the year award, they must have discontinued the award.
17. Posted by jpm100 | November 19, 2007 5:54 PM |
Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 17:54
18. Posted by HughS | November 19, 2007 6:57 PM | Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
ww is spot on right. The libs have completely misread the results of the 2006 election, they vastly underestimate the willingness and capability of Republicans to rally to the defense of our country and they truly do not understand the national security concern that motivates the Republican base.
epador
Can anyone offer an example of when appeasement has worked, much less worked with a Muslim nation?
Excellent point: the modern day libs continue to believe they, and only thy, can "reason" with these murderers by virtue of their superior intellect. They believe in the myth that the glorious 1990's were the halcyon days of the liberal foreign policy. The first WTC bombing, Tanzania, the Khobar Towers, the Cole.....our utter humiliation in Somalia, real absolute cuts in defense spending...nothing to see here, keep moving on!
As Jay mentioned: Muslims tend to respect strength....they witnessed everything but that during the 1990's.
18. Posted by HughS | November 19, 2007 6:57 PM |
Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 18:57
19. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 7:28 PM | Score: -4 (6 votes cast)
Bt lt's prsm tht bth bm Sr. nd Mr. Str wr bth fntcl "stlth Mslms" wh wr bth fxtd n trnng ng Brck Jr. nt sm srt f "Mnchrn-b-w-f-Mcc Cnddt"
knw..hw strng tht wld sk nn t "prsm" wtht fcts...
knw...mst mrcns hvng t bn ld t frm Bsh/Chn bt rq nd WMD's nd Nk's
..m r m nt b swd....
r ll rll prprd fr NC flks wh rll knw Rd? r prprd fr Rpblcns wh hv prblm wth Mrmn Mtt?
r prprd fr Rn Pl?
r prprd fr th sm slz prsmptns?
Ths s nt 2004...
N dsbld vt wll frgt th prpl bnd ds.
Th pstv spct f Wzbng...mst hr, rqr lttl bt mr thn sppstn....
Dd mntn hw Dms pld fr Rd n th sm lvl ll wnt Clntn?
off-topic twaddle disemvowelled by Section Editor... who finds that it now reads a smidgen more coherently that nogo's usual subliterate drivel.
19. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 7:28 PM |
Score: -4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 19:28
20. Posted by wavemaker | November 19, 2007 7:31 PM | Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
Seven years in a state senate and one-half term in the U.S. Senate sufficient experience for President? No?
Oh but he's black and has a muslim name!!! Never mind.
20. Posted by wavemaker | November 19, 2007 7:31 PM |
Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 19:31
21. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 7:36 PM | Score: -3 (5 votes cast)
Jay, ya want to talk about sons of fathers?
Ya really want me to link to Oral Robert's son?
Ya know...what ever crap comes out about Hillery...at least she did not have sex with a minor like Oral son's wife did...
Let us go down this road...
We can cross post lefty's having sex with underage minors...and Christian preachers doing the same...
Then let us discuss...whom is the bigger threat...
Jay Tea responds: No, nogo, I thought it was clear: I wanted to talk about how incredibly stupid Hersh's piece was about Obama. If you want to discuss those matters, feel free to start your own blog. If you find you lack the time to do so, I can arrange to get you plenty of time by banning you here at Wizbang.
J.
21. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 7:36 PM |
Score: -3 (5 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 19:36
22. Posted by RScott | November 19, 2007 7:59 PM | Score: 1 (3 votes cast)
I thought the koran swearing was the Ellison guy from Minnesota.
If Obama claims to be non-Moslem and his father is/was a Moslem, wouldn't that make him apostate in their (Moslems) eyes? Wouldn't they want to cut off his head or something like that? If you got these rules you know.....
22. Posted by RScott | November 19, 2007 7:59 PM |
Score: 1 (3 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 19:59
23. Posted by marc | November 19, 2007 8:11 PM | Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
J:
" If you (nogo) find you lack the time to do so, I can arrange to get you plenty of time by banning you here at Wizbang."
J, is that a hint as to what the sane among us are getting for Christmas?
It wouldn't be the "two front teeth" that nogo no doubt believes all us rethuglian evil doers need but it would provide a thread or two without off-topic meanderings of a blithering idiot.
23. Posted by marc | November 19, 2007 8:11 PM |
Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:11
24. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 8:12 PM | Score: -5 (7 votes cast)
"As I recall, Obama took his oath of office on a copy of the Koran that belonged to Thomas Jefferson."
Ya know...this is the kind of three toe BS..that is repeated here without dissent.
Ya all cannot have it both ways, Either you repute BS like this or you embrace it.
I believe that irony is the fulcrum of our lives...
I find this fulcrum in the silence from the sources and posters here in regard to this pure BS...
How covenant it is to blame everything on "moonbats" and never challenge BS like this...
Please anyone provide links that Presidential candidate Obama did this...
To allow this to go unchallenged...only feed the lefty thought that you all are idiots.
I know this is not true.
24. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 8:12 PM |
Score: -5 (7 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:12
25. Posted by Jay Tea | November 19, 2007 8:17 PM | Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
nogo blathered:
maggie -- you might recognize her, she's the COMMENTS EDITOR around here -- corrected the "sworn in on the Koran" comment at 1:32, ten minutes after it was posted.
RScott repeated the correction at 7:59.
Good god, how the FUCK can you be so stupid and still breathe?
J.
25. Posted by Jay Tea | November 19, 2007 8:17 PM |
Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:17
26. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 8:20 PM | Score: -5 (7 votes cast)
Marc;;; with all your clout , please arrange my ban...
Jay and i may disagree on many things, but he knows me better than you will ever know.
Jay has held steadfast and been a part of Wizbang growth.
After all...my posts do provide fodder.
Marc, how far back have you posted?
Marc, c'mon..without my presence this would be more boring.
After the Republican landslide in 2008, I will still post. You will just be able to hold me in more ridicule based on the...ah...Landslide.
26. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 8:20 PM |
Score: -5 (7 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:20
27. Posted by RScott | November 19, 2007 8:22 PM | Score: 1 (3 votes cast)
Mr. Nogo:
If the Koran thing is that big of a deal why did you wait until your third post?
Mu first post was somewhat of a joke, but according to some Moslem people I know (not friends since they are not supposed to be my friend, it's in the book) If one is born to a Moslem father then one is always a Moslem.
27. Posted by RScott | November 19, 2007 8:22 PM |
Score: 1 (3 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:22
28. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 8:26 PM | Score: -6 (8 votes cast)
Please...anyone provide a link where Presidential Candidate Obama took an oath on the Koran or said he would....
simple if it is true....
if it is not true...
Well...
c'mon you all can google...
Links...or
stand tall on FEEBLE
28. Posted by nogo war | November 19, 2007 8:26 PM |
Score: -6 (8 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:26
29. Posted by Jay Tea | November 19, 2007 8:29 PM | Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
nogo, it's not about quantity, but quality.
And you put way, way too much stock in how "valued" your alleged contributions are. "Tolerated" would fit it better.
And that tolerance is far from infinite.
J.
29. Posted by Jay Tea | November 19, 2007 8:29 PM |
Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:29
30. Posted by Maggie | November 19, 2007 8:40 PM | Score: 3 (3 votes cast)
It was Ellison who took his oath on the koran
FOXNews.com - Muslim-American Group Targets Radio Host Over Koran ...
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234237,00.html
Minnesota Monitor:: Ellison's Oath On Koran Roils Conservatives
94k - 13 sec @ 56k
First American Muslim Congressman Crashes The Thick Glass Ceiling ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1738024/posts
There were 15,200 hits over at ask.com if you'd
like more veriification.
30. Posted by Maggie | November 19, 2007 8:40 PM |
Score: 3 (3 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:40
31. Posted by Brian | November 19, 2007 8:42 PM | Score: -1 (5 votes cast)
It wasn't Obama who was sworn in with a koran,
it was Ellison who used it for oath taking.
Except that never happened.
31. Posted by Brian | November 19, 2007 8:42 PM |
Score: -1 (5 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:42
32. Posted by Brian | November 19, 2007 8:50 PM | Score: -4 (6 votes cast)
they have been greeted with howls of derision and rounds of denials. ... have been strenuously refuted and denied.
What's the matter, Jay? You can't bring yourself to say "they were wrong"?
32. Posted by Brian | November 19, 2007 8:50 PM |
Score: -4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:50
33. Posted by Tommy Montjoie | November 19, 2007 8:50 PM | Score: 0 (2 votes cast)
IF we want to mend relations with the Muslim world. IF.
33. Posted by Tommy Montjoie | November 19, 2007 8:50 PM |
Score: 0 (2 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:50
34. Posted by Jay Tea | November 19, 2007 8:59 PM | Score: 2 (6 votes cast)
Brian:
It's like Brian and nogo are having a contest to see who's dumber tonight. I almost find myself wishing S******* P***** would show up and raise the IQ of the threads.
J.
34. Posted by Jay Tea | November 19, 2007 8:59 PM |
Score: 2 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 20:59
35. Posted by HughS | November 19, 2007 9:18 PM | Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
Brian's having a Rush Limbaugh/Ebay moment. Nobody except him will not care about this in two weeks.
35. Posted by HughS | November 19, 2007 9:18 PM |
Score: 3 (5 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 21:18
36. Posted by RScott | November 19, 2007 9:21 PM | Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Brian:
In what way did your Wiki link contradict the statement about Ellison? Sure, the actual oath is a large group thing with no book used, but the ceremonial oath/photo op that almost all congressmen participate-in was done with the Koran.
36. Posted by RScott | November 19, 2007 9:21 PM |
Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on November 19, 2007 21:21
37. Posted by Brian | November 19, 2007 10:00 PM | Score: -4 (8 votes cast)
Sure, the actual oath is a large group thing with no book used, but...
So you're saying, "Sure, the statement was false, but..."
37. Posted by Brian | November 19, 2007 10:00 PM |
Score: -4 (8 votes cast)
Posted on