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Identity Politics At Its Dumbest

Over at the Huffington Post, investigative journalist Seymour Hersh (who's pretty much been resting on the laurels of My Lai for almost literally my entire life) discussed how the United States needs to elect Barack Obama as president if we wish to mend our relations with the Muslim world.

(Hat tip: my colleague Steve Crickmore at Blue. By the way, Steve, Hersh did not "break" Abu Ghraib; the US Army broke the story itself. He was just the first to actually report what they said.)

I read Steve's piece, then over to HuffPo (after having all my shots) and read the piece. In a nutshell, the fact that Obama's biological father was a Muslim (as was the man his mother married next) will somehow win over those who currently dislike and distrust us.

This is so barkingly stupid, it can only have been first published at HuffPo.

First off, the rumors of Obama's alleged Muslim upbringing have been bounced around for some time, and each time they have been greeted with howls of derision and rounds of denials. His biological father (who divorced his mother and returned to Kenya when Barack Jr. was two) is described as an athiest. His stepfather, who oversaw Barack Jr.'s upbringing up to the fifth grade, is described as a "non-practicing Muslim." And rumors that Obama attended militant Muslim schools while in Indonesia have been strenuously refuted and denied.

But let's presume that both Obama Sr. and Mr. Soetoro were both fanatical "stealth Muslims" who were both fixated on turning young Barack Jr. into some sort of "Manchurian-by-way-of-Mecca Candidate" and the above allegations are true. he got out of their influence at the age of ten, for heaven's sake.

But that's just the stupid part. Now we move to the really stupid.

Remember the "Mohammed cartoon" riots a few years ago? It turned out that the most inflammatory cartoons (the one of Mohammed being sodomized by a pig, for example) weren't even part of the original set. They were made up by some Imams to fire up the Muslim masses -- and it worked. A lot of people died from those riots. And a lot of people let themselves be intimidated into obeying the strictures of Islam -- out of fear of physical violence.

Remember the "Koran down the toilet" riots? It didn't matter that the "insult" being alleged was physically impossible. The Muslims rioted again, people died, and again a lot of people let themselves be intimidated into obeying the strictures of Islam -- out of fear of physical violence.

Now, of all the major religions in the world, Islam still maintains a death penalty for apostasy -- for leaving the faith. Renouncing one's Muslim faith is grounds for death, usually by stoning, but far more informal methods are just as acceptable.

Whether or not Obama ever was a Muslim is pretty much irrelevant -- as we see, reality and truth are no barriers to Islamic rage. All we need is for a few Imams torqued at the US (and lord knows there are no shortages of those in the world) to say that Obama had, indeed, committed a valid conversion to Islam as a youth, and now calls himself a Christian. That makes him an apostate, and from there it's a simple hop to say that it is the holy duty of every Muslim in the world to either bring him back to Allah, or send him there directly. And what would it say of a nation that it would elect as its president a man who had seen the glory and truth and greatness of Islam, but rejected it?

OK, that's the really stupid part. Now we have to move on to the mind-bogglingly stupid part, the part that so offends common sense that it could only have been published in the Huffington Post.

As I said in the title, this is about Identity Politics -- the notion that WHAT we are is more important than WHO we are, that our ancestry and genetics and affiliations matter far more than what we say and do and think for ourselves.

Senator Obama has already demonstrated his grasp of foreign relations quite thoroughly. Some time ago, within the space of a few days last August, he not only promised to not use nuclear weapons in any circumstances whatsoever, but to invade Pakistan -- a Muslim nation and a nuclear power.

As we've seen (partly thanks to Osama Bin Laden's "strong horse/weak horse" statement), Muslims tend to respect strength. Here he have a would-be president of the United States threatening a Muslim nation while simultaneously tying one arm behind the United States' back.

But under Identity Politics, that's irrelevant. That Obama is half-black and the son of a Muslim and has a Muslim name (Barack Hussein Obama Jr.) will trump everything else.

Personally, I think there's plenty of reason to reject Obama. The guy's a lightweight, an empty suit. He's a Rorschach blot of a candidate, allowing people to project whatever they want in a president on to him.

And to give any weight to how the fundamentally irrational Islamists might or might not feel about who we elect as president is just wrong. By that logic, we ought to not elect Hillary Clinton, because women have no place in poltics in the Islamist world.

Thanks, but I'll pass.


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Comments (77)

This is the same Seymour He... (Below threshold)

This is the same Seymour Hersch who says what he writes and what he says can be quite different. Or is it that he writes that he what writes and he says are different? Or something....

No more Clintons or Bushs i... (Below threshold)
914:

No more Clintons or Bushs in the White House! lets put someone new in there like Alfred E Newman or Tiger Woods? enough of these meccacca candidates already.

Western Culture and islam a... (Below threshold)
Bob:

Western Culture and islam are not compatible. We will never submit to the political ideology of terrorist islam, but the libs will.

Bob, they already have. How... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

Bob, they already have. How many times did the Clinton's have their favorite terrorist for sleep overs durring the 8 years they occupied the White House? How many others did they welcome as visitors?

That someone could postulate such utter tripe is astounding. Giving the reins of power to someone so utterly unfit borders on complete insanity, which is indeed where the Democrat party is today.
Doing it because it would appease the islamofacists is insane.

As I recall, Obama took his... (Below threshold)
Jerry in Detroit:

As I recall, Obama took his oath of office on a copy of the Koran that belonged to Thomas Jefferson. This is the same Koran that Thomas Jefferson read then sent the first Marines in Tripoli. In essence, Obama has openly signified his intent to attack Islam. Who's he going to attack? Riyadh?

"Who's he going to attac... (Below threshold)

"Who's he going to attack? Riyadh?"

No. Pakistan.

It wasn't Obama who was swo... (Below threshold)
Maggie:

It wasn't Obama who was sworn in with a koran,
it was Ellison who used it for oath taking.
Wonder if he was using kitman at the time.

OBAMA is the reason democra... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

OBAMA is the reason democrats shouldn't be taken seriously. He is the "image" without substance stance the demo's take so many times. Now a man like Bill Richardson would get some attention from republicans, because there is real experience there. But no, the demo's put their money and time in Obama. ww

GmacWell. that's w... (Below threshold)
JFO:

Gmac

Well. that's what happened it in 2000 and 2004 so what's your point? How do you like your choice now?

Except for immigration, I a... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Except for immigration, I am still totally supportive of GW. We republicans are more loyal to this country and our presidents then JFO and his ilk even come close to understanding. ww

Your "ilk" is a very small ... (Below threshold)
JFO:

Your "ilk" is a very small "ilk (as is your mind) and growing smaller and smaller by the day.

JFO - You seriously think K... (Below threshold)

JFO - You seriously think Kerry or Gore would have been a better choice. And you think I'm insane...

Can anyone offer an example... (Below threshold)
epador:

Can anyone offer an example of when appeasement has worked, much less worked with a Muslim nation?

Your momma would have been ... (Below threshold)
JFO:

Your momma would have been a better choice than the dope in the WH.
depp=true

Stunning reparte', JFO.... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Stunning reparte', JFO.

I'm sure your entire 7th grade gym class is impressed ...

Identity Politics, Multicul... (Below threshold)

Identity Politics, Multiculturalism and Political Correctness, are cancers of each and every society.

Proponents of such atrocious and repugnant ideals are the over-emotional weaklings akin to family members of an alcoholic and need Alanon to help them thru the process of another disease called co-dependency and the aftermath of being People Pleasers.

When one spends their energies on pleasing every single pocket of whiners, one loses sight of the bigger picture.

Obama is one of these.

epador writes:C... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

epador writes:

Can anyone offer an example of when appeasement has worked, much less worked with a Muslim nation?

Seriously. If Hersh doesn't get dunce of the year award, they must have discontinued the award.

ww is spot on right. The li... (Below threshold)

ww is spot on right. The libs have completely misread the results of the 2006 election, they vastly underestimate the willingness and capability of Republicans to rally to the defense of our country and they truly do not understand the national security concern that motivates the Republican base.

epador

Can anyone offer an example of when appeasement has worked, much less worked with a Muslim nation?

Excellent point: the modern day libs continue to believe they, and only thy, can "reason" with these murderers by virtue of their superior intellect. They believe in the myth that the glorious 1990's were the halcyon days of the liberal foreign policy. The first WTC bombing, Tanzania, the Khobar Towers, the Cole.....our utter humiliation in Somalia, real absolute cuts in defense spending...nothing to see here, keep moving on!

As Jay mentioned: Muslims tend to respect strength....they witnessed everything but that during the 1990's.

But let's presume that both... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

But let's presume that both Obama Sr. and Mr. Soetoro were both fanatical "stealth Muslims" who were both fixated on turning young Barack Jr. into some sort of "Manchurian-by-way-of-Mecca Candidate"

Ya know..how strange that you would ask anyone to "presume" without facts...

Ya know...most Americans having to been lied to from Bush/Cheney about Iraq and WMD's and Nuk's
..may or may not be swayed....


Are you all really prepared for NYC folks who really know Rudi? Are you prepared for Republicans who have a problem with Mormon Mitt?
Are you prepared for Ron Paul?
Are you prepared for the same sleazy presumptions?

This is not 2004...
No disabled vet will forget the purple band aids.
The positive aspect of Wizbang...most here, require a little bit more than supposition....

Did I mention how Dems plead for Rudi on the same level you all want Clinton?
depp=true
notiz=off-topic twaddle disemvowelled by Section Editor... who finds that it now reads a smidgen more coherently that nogo's usual subliterate drivel.

Seven years in a state sena... (Below threshold)

Seven years in a state senate and one-half term in the U.S. Senate sufficient experience for President? No?

Oh but he's black and has a muslim name!!! Never mind.

Jay, ya want to talk about ... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

Jay, ya want to talk about sons of fathers?
Ya really want me to link to Oral Robert's son?
Ya know...what ever crap comes out about Hillery...at least she did not have sex with a minor like Oral son's wife did...
Let us go down this road...
We can cross post lefty's having sex with underage minors...and Christian preachers doing the same...
Then let us discuss...whom is the bigger threat...

Jay Tea responds: No, nogo, I thought it was clear: I wanted to talk about how incredibly stupid Hersh's piece was about Obama. If you want to discuss those matters, feel free to start your own blog. If you find you lack the time to do so, I can arrange to get you plenty of time by banning you here at Wizbang.

J.

I thought the koran swearin... (Below threshold)
RScott:

I thought the koran swearing was the Ellison guy from Minnesota.

If Obama claims to be non-Moslem and his father is/was a Moslem, wouldn't that make him apostate in their (Moslems) eyes? Wouldn't they want to cut off his head or something like that? If you got these rules you know.....

J:" If you (no... (Below threshold)
marc:

J:

" If you (nogo) find you lack the time to do so, I can arrange to get you plenty of time by banning you here at Wizbang."

J, is that a hint as to what the sane among us are getting for Christmas?

It wouldn't be the "two front teeth" that nogo no doubt believes all us rethuglian evil doers need but it would provide a thread or two without off-topic meanderings of a blithering idiot.

"As I recall, Obama took hi... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

"As I recall, Obama took his oath of office on a copy of the Koran that belonged to Thomas Jefferson."
Ya know...this is the kind of three toe BS..that is repeated here without dissent.

Ya all cannot have it both ways, Either you repute BS like this or you embrace it.

I believe that irony is the fulcrum of our lives...
I find this fulcrum in the silence from the sources and posters here in regard to this pure BS...

How covenant it is to blame everything on "moonbats" and never challenge BS like this...
Please anyone provide links that Presidential candidate Obama did this...

To allow this to go unchallenged...only feed the lefty thought that you all are idiots.
I know this is not true.

nogo blathered:<block... (Below threshold)

nogo blathered:

"As I recall, Obama took his oath of office on a copy of the Koran that belonged to Thomas Jefferson." Ya know...this is the kind of three toe BS..that is repeated here without dissent.

maggie -- you might recognize her, she's the COMMENTS EDITOR around here -- corrected the "sworn in on the Koran" comment at 1:32, ten minutes after it was posted.

RScott repeated the correction at 7:59.

Good god, how the FUCK can you be so stupid and still breathe?

J.

Marc;;; with all your clout... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

Marc;;; with all your clout , please arrange my ban...
Jay and i may disagree on many things, but he knows me better than you will ever know.
Jay has held steadfast and been a part of Wizbang growth.
After all...my posts do provide fodder.
Marc, how far back have you posted?
Marc, c'mon..without my presence this would be more boring.
After the Republican landslide in 2008, I will still post. You will just be able to hold me in more ridicule based on the...ah...Landslide.

Mr. Nogo:If the Kora... (Below threshold)
RScott:

Mr. Nogo:
If the Koran thing is that big of a deal why did you wait until your third post?

Mu first post was somewhat of a joke, but according to some Moslem people I know (not friends since they are not supposed to be my friend, it's in the book) If one is born to a Moslem father then one is always a Moslem.

Please...anyone provide a l... (Below threshold)
nogo war:

Please...anyone provide a link where Presidential Candidate Obama took an oath on the Koran or said he would....
simple if it is true....
if it is not true...
Well...
c'mon you all can google...
Links...or
stand tall on FEEBLE

nogo, it's not about quanti... (Below threshold)

nogo, it's not about quantity, but quality.

And you put way, way too much stock in how "valued" your alleged contributions are. "Tolerated" would fit it better.

And that tolerance is far from infinite.

J.

It was Ellison who took his... (Below threshold)
Maggie:

It was Ellison who took his oath on the koran


FOXNews.com - Muslim-American Group Targets Radio Host Over Koran ...
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,234237,00.html

Minnesota Monitor:: Ellison's Oath On Koran Roils Conservatives
www.minnesotamonitor.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=857


94k - 13 sec @ 56k
First American Muslim Congressman Crashes The Thick Glass Ceiling ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1738024/posts

There were 15,200 hits over at ask.com if you'd
like more veriification.

It wasn't Obama who was ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

It wasn't Obama who was sworn in with a koran,
it was Ellison who used it for oath taking.

Except that never happened.

they have been greeted w... (Below threshold)
Brian:

they have been greeted with howls of derision and rounds of denials. ... have been strenuously refuted and denied.

What's the matter, Jay? You can't bring yourself to say "they were wrong"?

IF we want to mend relation... (Below threshold)
Tommy Montjoie:

IF we want to mend relations with the Muslim world. IF.

Brian:re·... (Below threshold)

Brian:

re·fute /rɪˈfyut/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-fyoot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation -verb (used with object), -fut·ed, -fut·ing. 1. to prove to be false or erroneous, as an opinion or charge. 2. to prove (a person) to be in error.

It's like Brian and nogo are having a contest to see who's dumber tonight. I almost find myself wishing S******* P***** would show up and raise the IQ of the threads.

J.

Brian's having a Rush Limba... (Below threshold)

Brian's having a Rush Limbaugh/Ebay moment. Nobody except him will not care about this in two weeks.

Brian:In what way di... (Below threshold)
RScott:

Brian:
In what way did your Wiki link contradict the statement about Ellison? Sure, the actual oath is a large group thing with no book used, but the ceremonial oath/photo op that almost all congressmen participate-in was done with the Koran.

Sure, the actual oath is... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Sure, the actual oath is a large group thing with no book used, but...

So you're saying, "Sure, the statement was false, but..."

Brian is absolutely fixated... (Below threshold)

Brian is absolutely fixated on the minutiae of Ellison, but can't bring himself to admit he's been handed his ass over not knowing what the word "refuted" means.

Isn't that the tactic? Never admit weakness, never admit being wrong, just keep attacking and attacking.

J.

It's like Brian and nogo... (Below threshold)
Brian:

It's like Brian and nogo are having a contest to see who's dumber tonight.

In a futile effort to catch up to you, it seems.

A person can "refute" a charge, with another not accepting the refutation. (Or do you accept all the "refuting" that Al Gore has done of the global warming naysayers?)

And you still didn't say the rumors of his Muslim upbringing were "refuted". Nor does it explain why you chose "greeted with howls of derision and rounds of denials" instead of "shown to be false".

So let's have it, Jay. Do you accept Obama's refuting, and agree that both rumors are utterly false?

How does someone that has n... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

How does someone that has never did anything for anyone other than himself think he deserves to be president. He went into the debate with one thing, 'I'm black' and came out with two things, 'I'm black and I'm stupid'. Who started the rumor about B Hussein Obama? What has kept his name in the news this week, the rumor. Only one person gained by the rumor. He or his staff started the rumor to sucker the feeble minded reporters and it worked.

Brian is absolutely fixa... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Brian is absolutely fixated on the minutiae of Ellison

Minutiae? It was the entire content of the post I was responding to. Two posts, actually.

but can't bring himself to admit he's been handed his ass over not knowing what the word "refuted" means.

Uh, that would be you.

Isn't that the tactic? Never admit weakness, never admit being wrong, just keep attacking and attacking.

You forgot "redefining words so that they mean what you want them to mean, instead of what they actually mean". Oh wait... that's your tactic.

Comment 31 Brian.</p... (Below threshold)


Comment 31 Brian.

Except that never happened.

Rebut the comment. Defend it. Refute it.


Rebut the comment. Defen... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Rebut the comment. Defend it. Refute it.

Umm, OK.

it was Ellison who used it for oath taking.

No he didn't.

There. Rebutted. Defended. Refuted.

Oh, Brian. You are so</i... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Oh, Brian. You are so dumb. Amazingly and utterly stupid. I'm actually embarrassed for you.

And the issue about the oat... (Below threshold)
JFO:

And the issue about the oath on the Koran is.....?

Ah, yes, good retort. When ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Ah, yes, good retort. When you run out of facts, jump right to insults.

It seems you care about the truth as much as I care about what you think of me. Which is to say, not at all.

Re Ellison:<a href... (Below threshold)
Maggie:

Re Ellison:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/01/03/ellisonquran/


Washington D.C. -- (AP) - Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, will use a Quran once owned by Thomas Jefferson during his ceremonial swearing-in Thursday.

Thanks for validating my po... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Thanks for validating my point, Maggie. I'm glad you can admit when you're wrong.

Brian, the whole gist of th... (Below threshold)

Brian, the whole gist of the piece was Obama, Hersh, and how barkingly stupid the thought that Obama was some sort of magic ticket to getting the Muslims to like us. Ellison and the Koran came up as part of a sidebar dispelling one commenter's confusing Ellison and Obama.

Unless your point was to show that there was actually someone dumber than Hersh by your obsessing on whether or not Ellison's hand came in to contact with Jefferson's Koran and repeatedly proving that you can't understand a dictionary definition of "refute," you haven't said a bloody thing of relevance.

But then again, maybe you're a genius and getting the discussion away from the thesis of the piece -- Hersh is a moron and Obama is an empty suit -- was your goal all along. Maybe you were a kamikaze pilot, flying the flaming wreckage of your reputation into this forum in the hopes of taking down my points with you. In that case, you very well might have succeeded.

J.

Brian,You're welco... (Below threshold)
Maggie:

Brian,

You're welcome. Although I'm not understanding
your point. I originally posted about Ellison
just to clear up some confusion about who
took their oath on a koran. Ceremonially
of course.
So, if you insist on having the last word, be
my guest.

"Maybe you were a kamika... (Below threshold)

"Maybe you were a kamikaze pilot, flying the flaming wreckage of your reputation into this forum..."

Jay, that was downright poetic.

Mind if I use it?

Only, Oyster, if you post a... (Below threshold)

Only, Oyster, if you post a review -- even a partial one -- of "Parliament Of Whores."

If you do that, then feel free to steal my turn of phrase...

J.

I'm a little confused. You... (Below threshold)
Kapow:

I'm a little confused. You seem like a smart guy most of the time Jay Tea, so why are you incapable of understanding nuance when it comes to Obama? He didn't say he would invade Pakistan - and you know that.

Here's what he said:

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

No mention of invasion, or striking the Pakistani military or government. Instead, this is a demonstration of his will to hit terrorists - the ones that really attacked us on 9/11 - where ever they are. Bill Kristol suggested exactly the same thing and yet - shock of shocks - no outrage from the right when he suggests it (Link to Fox News Video):

"I think the president's going to have to take military action there over [Pakistan] in the next few weeks or months. ... Bush has to disrupt that sanctuary."

"I think, frankly, we won't even tell Musharraf," Kirstol continued. "We'll do what we have to do in Western Pakistan and Musharraf can say, 'Hey, they didn't tell me.'"

1) Bill Kristol is not runn... (Below threshold)

1) Bill Kristol is not running for president.

And what happened to the whole "sovereign nation" argument? Or is it okay when a Democrat disregards it?

If anyone thinks that we haven't already made forays into Pakistani territory, they're not paying attention.

Although I'm not underst... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Although I'm not understanding
your point. I originally posted about Ellison
just to clear up some confusion about who
took their oath on a koran.

And I originally posted about Ellison just to clear up some confusion that he did not take his oath on a Koran. Actually, of course.

Oh, sorry, Jay. I wasn't aw... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Oh, sorry, Jay. I wasn't aware of your new rule requiring comments to respond only to your post, and not to other comments.

As for misrepresenting the definition of words, that is squarely in your camp. You still haven't said whether you accept the refutation, nor have you admitted that the rumors of his Muslim upbringing were wrong. Parse, parse, parse, but avoid the simple answers. Your trademark.

But then again, maybe you're a genius... ah, nevermind, I can't even think of a snarky scenario where that might even be close to true.

The Thunder Run has linked ... (Below threshold)

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 11/20/2007 A short recon of what's out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...

Uh, I think the original pi... (Below threshold)
epador:

Uh, I think the original piece pretty well laid bare the upbringing myth, and as for your continued attempts to wage a war of intellectual insults, well, you poach intellectual armories to have anything to fling JT's way. I'm not sure you look carefully when you reach in there and fling, from the looks of things.

Oyster said:"If anyo... (Below threshold)
Kapow:

Oyster said:
"If anyone thinks that we haven't already made forays into Pakistani territory, they're not paying attention."

My point exactly. Obama said what he would do - something we're already doing btw - and people like JT willfully misinterpret it to fit their pre-formed hit; in this case, Obama is a foreign policy lightweight. Naturally, it doesn't matter, that it has no grounding fact.
You can debunk the "no nukes" comment in a similar way. Both cases were willful exageration or misunderstanding of what was said in order to grind a political axe.

But don't forget that Jay Tea is an independent thinker who doesn't flack for the GOP - no way, no how!

Brian,A wise person ... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Brian,
A wise person once told me that time wasted in the examination of a folly is irretrievable. However there is value in the examination of what is accomplished. So, let's examine your departure from reason and determine what you have accomplished - intentionally or otherwise. You are a seemingly intelligent person and you are well aware that you are tweezing a hair on an elephant, but you steadfastly hold onto straws whilst you drown yourself. The debate about whether the ceremonial swearing in is the act or the representation (doing it without really doing it) is really just subterfuge, isn't it? We live in the age of the filibuster (something the Democrats liked a few years back, but don't care much for now). The Democrat Congress haven't figured out why their approval ratings are so abysmal. They haven't figured out what they're about, only what they're against. And if the Republicans ever figure out how to not play that game and go back to rational debate, your party will lose every time. The Democrats have abjectly abandoned reason and merely appeal to emotion so that the asthmatic debate is completely choked with arguments of form as opposed to substance. You, as a part of the problem, have accomplished nothing save diversion. And you know it.

Congratulations Clay, you w... (Below threshold)
JFO:

Congratulations Clay, you win the supercilious turd of the day award. I don't know which is funnier - that you actually believe what you wrote or that you're that stupid. Try taking your nose out of the stratosphere and come back down to earth and reality.

A wise person once told ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

A wise person once told me that time wasted in the examination of a folly is irretrievable.

I merely corrected an inaccurate statement. I'm not the one who extended the discussion by accusing me of being wrong (I wasn't) and challenging me to defend my statement (I did).

The Democrat Congress haven't figured out why their approval ratings are so abysmal.

Truly one of the great puzzlers of our time.

And if the Republicans ever figure out how to not play that game and go back to rational debate, your party will lose every time.

Right back atcha.

The Democrats have abjectly abandoned reason and merely appeal to emotion so that the asthmatic debate is completely choked with arguments of form as opposed to substance.

You mean like by saying "you're either with us or against us", "those who disagree with us are traitors", or "you support the terrorists"?

you win the supercilious... (Below threshold)
Clay:

you win the supercilious turd of the day award

Wow. It's a Major Award. I won it!

You mean like by saying ... (Below threshold)
Clay:

You mean like by saying "you're either with us or against us", "those who disagree with us are traitors", or "you support the terrorists"?

There you go again.

Actually it's a small award... (Below threshold)
JFO:

Actually it's a small award for a small mind. For you, it's not contest.

Actually it's a small aw... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Actually it's a small award for a small mind.

[Admiring my "major award"] It's... it's... it's indescribably beautiful! It reminds me of the Fourth of July!

For you, it's not contest.

Of course, you mean 'no contest', right? Because 'not contest' doesn't make sense here, does it? No, I don't think it does. Now, this isn't really the best you can do, is it? Try again so we can all think you're clever once more.

You can't help yourself, yo... (Below threshold)
JFO:

You can't help yourself, you're a natural . Just keep opening that empty mind and proving why you win the award. No contest! An approropriate quote from a real jackass is fitting: "And you know it."

There you go again.<... (Below threshold)
Brian:

There you go again.

Ha! Accusing me of lacking reason and appealing to emotion... by quoting Republicans!

A wise person once told ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

A wise person once told me that time wasted in the examination of a folly is irretrievable.

You mean like commenting on JFO's obvious typo?

Ha! Accusing me of lacki... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Ha! Accusing me of lacking reason and appealing to emotion... by quoting Republicans!

Oh, wow. You got me. You're good.

You mean like commenting... (Below threshold)
Clay:

You mean like commenting on JFO's obvious typo?

Exactly! Now you're catching on. You guys are trainable.

It's not like it's a challe... (Below threshold)
JFO:

It's not like it's a challenge.

Just keep opening that e... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Just keep opening that empty mind and proving why you win the award.

And...and...you'll keep answering me?

Brian, please do us all a f... (Below threshold)

Brian, please do us all a favor and just hold your breathe until you stop breathing. Thank you.

#72 in response to # 70 and... (Below threshold)
JFO:

#72 in response to # 70 and I'm done playing with this fool aka Clay.

I'm done playing with th... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I'm done playing with this fool aka Clay.

Aww. Don't go away mad. Just...well...go away.

Kapow, there is a differenc... (Below threshold)

Kapow, there is a difference that you're not taking into consideration. It's likely that Musharraf was completely aware of any forays into his country's territory ahead of time. Since we have been working closely with Pakistan, it stands to reason that he is willing to turn a blind eye to it because of that cooperation and sharing of information.

Obama, on the other hand, said if Musharraf wouldn't do anything, we would.

There's a big diffrence there in how it's presented.

Obama wants to talk tough due the implications that he's not experienced enough so he gives the impression that no such thing has been done in the recent past and he would.

Even Hillary Clinton responded to that accordingly:

But Clinton countered by saying that while U.S. forces might have to pursue action inside Pakistan "on the basis of actionable intelligence," it was "a very big mistake to telegraph that and to destabilize the Musharraf regime, which is fighting for its life against the Islamist extremists who are in bed with al Qaeda and the Taliban."

It's not something you go blabbing about.




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