Nice hypocrisy dude, and you must be having very thick skin to cry victim on this, when Israel had slaughtered 120 Palestinians over the last 2 weeks, many of them children..Where was the moral cry of many who condemned this attack? Few other than Jews are crying..May be this seminary was one of the schools which taught that Jews have the divine right to torture Palestinians and kick them out of their legitimate homeland.

Not only are the palestinians barbaric, I do not believe the have the ability to reason.

Zen, are the clouds in your world marshmellows? ww

A lie told 1000 times wont make truth. Palestinians are not barbaric - they are fighting back against the savagery of Israelis and those who support them. Firing missiles from Helicopter towards refugee camps and blocking food and medicines may be civil act for greedy Zionist thugs?

Yonadav Chaim Hirschfeld lived down the street from me. His father is a close friend of mine, a Mohel (one who does Jewish ritual circumcisions), who preformed the Brit Milah on 3 of my sons. I just returned from his funeral several minutes ago. Yonadav was a young man who was always happy, always willing to help, quiet and non-imposing. He never pushed himself forward, except when someone needed cheering up or help. He was a musician, always with his flute, writing his own songs. I would be surprised if he ever had a violent thought pass through his mind. He studied the Torah for its own sake, staying up late when everyone else in his house had gone to sleep, delving into the words of the Torah and Prophets, studying the Mishnah, hour after hour. May his memory be a blessing for us all.

And this latest horror points up the validity of negotiating how?

Just remember - NOTHING the Palestinians can do is enough to turn some people away from them! There's always useful idiots who feel sympathy for the underdog - especially when it's about as pleasant to live near as a rabid, incontinent skunk.

Zen -

If the Palestinians were to get the upper hand, the Israelies would be wiped out.

The Israelies have the upper hand - and they do their damndest to avoid targeting civilians, which is pretty hard since Hamas seems to have this little habit of setting up rocket launchers and mortars in schoolyards and markets and indiscriminately firing at Israel, not caring where things land.

Morally, the Palestinians have hit bottom and dug like badgers. They've NEVER missed an opportunity to screw themselves over. And I'm supposed to feel SORRY for the bastards? No. Hell, no.

Clearly the vile Jews brought this upon themselves by continuing to exist. Any reasonable people would have recognized that they have no right to life and committed national suicide. Their endless provocation of the sensitive, gentle and moral Palestinian people by breathing is punishable by any means possible. Only when the earth is freed from the infection that is the Jew can all people everywhere live free. Hail the Palestinian people, the sharp end of the spear in the quest to rid the world of an entire people.

Thousands of people passing sweets and celebrating the killing of children in religious schools, and there are idiots in the West still trying to excuse this behavior?

By the way, you probably won't hear the names and ages of the victims, so I'll commemorate them here:

Yes, fully half of them were children. You won't hear that mentioned, either.

We see these claims every time there's an attack in Israel, and every time they are wrong. It's hard to believe you don't notice.

I know these are all relatively unknown news outlets and no one will ever these articles, but still...

NY Times:

The dead were aged 15 and 26. At least nine others were injured, three seriously.

The families of the victims bought the eight bodies to the seminary on Friday morning before setting off, at around noon, to bury them at locations inside and outside Jerusalem.

In Gush Etzion, a settlement inside the West Bank, one of the victims of the shooting, Avraham David Moses, 16, whose parents had both moved to Israel from the United States, was buried in a quiet, restrained ceremony attended by several hundred people.

Shaded by trees, the mourners carried the small body up to the grave on a stretcher covered in a black and white prayer shawl. The victim's young siblings gathered around the grave and helped throw soil onto the body.

"He was a really good kid," said his stepmother, Leha Moses, who grew up in New Jersey and who said she had lived in Israel for 12 years. "He was just an incredible blessing," she said.

Members of the family said the boy's mother, Rivka Moriah, was originally from New England and his father, Naftali Moses, was from Long Island, and both had moved to Israel several years ago. Both had subsequently remarried.

ABC News:

Hundreds of students, friends and families shared their grief for the eight young religious students gunned down inside the school by a resident of Arab East Jerusalem. Most of the victims were teenagers.

Associated Press:

Israeli officials said the victims were between ages 15 and 19 except one, who was 26. They identified one of the slain as 16-year-old Avraham David Moses, an American citizen whose parents moved to Israel in the 1990s. The State Department confirmed an American was killed.

BBC News (Funeral photo gallery):

Most of the victims were between 15 and 19 years old.

That was after only a couple minutes of looking on Google News. I'm sure you'll say that none of the articles names every one of the victims, but I'll note that those names weren't all released until just recently.

And just for balance, I'll remind you of the very similar, though more deadly, Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in 1994. The obvious difference, of course, is that Israel and Jews the world over condemned Goldstein's actions, while some Palestinians disgustingly celebrate this week's attacks.

Violence perpetuates violence. And no, I'm not saying Israel shouldn't defend itself, and I don't have any easy solutions, but demonizing one side, whether it be you demonizing the Palestinians or the asshole "zen" demonizing the Israelis, does nothing but contribute to the problem.

Violence perpetuates violence. And no, I'm not saying Israel shouldn't defend itself, and I don't have any easy solutions, but demonizing one side, whether it be you demonizing the Palestinians or the asshole "zen" demonizing the Israelis, does nothing but contribute to the problem.
-------------------------------------
Another cheap excuse by another liberal who cannot be honest about what he actually believes.

Israel should defend itself but it has to open its borders so that the terrorists can take advantage to kill more women/children. And Israel cannot hurt civilians that are used as human shields for Hamas. In other words, liberals will allow Israel to defend their women/children with words! Again, liberals admit that they don't have any real solutions but empty talk of moral equivalency.

Again, liberals admit that they don't have any real solutions but empty talk of moral equivalency.

Ok LAI, what's your solution?

I spent 10 seconds to check the first link, the well-known sew*ge liberal paper of record, and it doesn't disappoint. Here is the title

Gunman in Jerusalem Attack Identified

Do we need to explain further? Just read through the article and see how Jay 's point is proven again.

Mantis, your post insinuates the
so called palestinians have a slip
of justification for their continual
assaults on jewish civilians.
If Israel had not agreed to and signed
onto the Oslo Accords, none of this would
be happening. Instead they've seen violence,
ongoing hatred expand and outside bigotry
grow with the flood of barbarians into the
fold.
And if violence only begats violence, maybe
the Joooosss should disarm themselves letting
'nature' takes it's logical course , with
the Red Sea become redder with jewish blood.

Again, liberals admit that they don't have any real solutions but empty talk of moral equivalency.

Ok LAI, what's your solution?
-----------------------------------
Let Israel come in and wipe out Hamas in Gaza as long as it takes and get out. Do it as often as necessary. Can liberals openly support that?

BTW, is it too much to ask liberals to make unequivocal condemnation of Hamas for using women/children as human shields to launch terrorist attacks against Is women/children. Make this condemnationn against Hamas as widespread as possible. Don't give them propaganda cover. If it is too much for liberals, then let me know.

I unequivocally condemn Hamas' use of women and children as human shields to launch terrorist attacks against innocents. This is as inhuman and reprehensible as it gets. They are absolute scum and I make no excuses nor offer any defense of Hamas.

Mantis, your post insinuates the
so called palestinians have a slip
of justification for their continual
assaults on jewish civilians.

That's not what I meant. I meant that terrible acts have been committed on both sides, and all that does is guarantee more.

If Israel had not agreed to and signed
onto the Oslo Accords, none of this would
be happening.

Seriously? What would have happened instead?

And if violence only begats violence, maybe
the Joooosss should disarm themselves letting
'nature' takes it's logical course , with
the Red Sea become redder with jewish blood.

I didn't say only, and I didn't say begats (sic). I support the right of Israel to defend itself. I've said as much many times. I have friends there; I do not wish to see them dead. I have a great deal of sympathy for Israel, as it is a country whose people live constantly under siege from all sides.

I also have sympathy for the many Palestinians who through no fault of their own are forced to live a wretched existence of poverty and fear.

I know it's hard to understand that viewpoint when you are locked into a perspective that insists that one group of people is sub-human. I doubt many supporters of the Palestinians would understand it for the same reason.

I unequivocally condemn Hamas' use of women and children as human shields to launch terrorist attacks against innocents. This is as inhuman and reprehensible as it gets. They are absolute scum and I make no excuses nor offer any defense of Hamas.

Pretty words. What do you think should back them? What kind of response does Hamas deserve for its atrocities?

What kind of response does Hamas deserve for its atrocities?

What do they deserve? I think they all deserve to be buried to their heads on the beach at low tide. But what they deserve and what can realistically be done are two different things.

How do you eliminate Hamas without making things worse for everyone, likely killing many thousands of non-Hamas? If anyone has that solution I'd be glad to hear it. I'm sure Israel would too.

Really mantis. The infatadas originated
with Arafat, and they continue regularly
after his death. He is also the one who
hijacked the word palestinian for those
living generation after generation in
areas enclosed for the unwanted flotsam,
in other moslim countries who refused these
people assimulation and citizenship.
If the arab nations are ever successful in
destroying the nation of Israel via their
proxy janissarians, what do you think will
happen to the unwanted flotsam used as
cannon fodder? You think there will be peace
and accord? The pushers of the cannon fodder
will do to the tools they use as they're
attempting do to Israel. They're next in line
for destruction to keep them from turning to
bite the hand that binds and leads them.

Ok, Maggie, but none of that tells us what you think would have happened had the Oslo Accords not been signed. What would have happened? Would the flotsam have happily lived under occupation?

You presented the counterfactual, now tell us what you think the alternate outcome would have been.

Btw the first intifada started in 1987.

Mantis, Arafat started his terrorism
long before 1987. And now I'm going
to pull one of the lefts favourite tricks
google Arafat and find it backs up my
posts.
BTW you are not condemning any of
the other terror groups running rampant
through palestinian areas. Considering how
tiny Israel is, it's amazing how those
against Israel want her to defend herself with
one hand tied behind her back.
If my word carried any weight, I'd say no
bars held, total war to stop this crap once
and for all. Because if the moslims ever get
the upper hand they will show no mercy
at all.

Nothing can be done until the Palestinians themselves tire of the tactics of violence and the isolation that results.

Sorry, my head just got hit with a moving goalpost.

Let's just run it down here:

There's two sides to this conflict, you know.

That's moral equivocation! Why can't you condemn Hamas?

I do condemn Hamas, totally.

Those are just words! Words mean nothing!

Well, what sort of actions would actually improve things? I have a hard time coming up with any.

You only condemned Hamas! You must love all the other terrorists. Total war is the only way to peace!

And that about does it for me. I'll come back later for the list of people I'm required to condemn so as to not be labeled a terrorist-lover.

Mantis, the only goalpost moving
has been by you. But don't run off
mad, you'll just have to get glad in
the same set of pants.
How do you think WW2 was won? Total
war.

I unequivocally condemn Hamas' use of women and children as human shields to launch terrorist attacks against innocents. This is as inhuman and reprehensible as it gets. They are absolute scum and I make no excuses nor offer any defense of Hamas.
-------------------------------------
So you support Israel to come into Gaza and get rid of Hamas for the Israel women/children and the Palestian women/children as well. No more moral equivalency as justification. I am glad that you agree the scumbags at the liberal outlets like NYT, AP cannot do as much.

BTW, I am always amused by your spinning effort at the same time you tried your cheap distraction against Jay.

while some Palestinians disgustingly celebrate this week's attacks.

A few thousands went out on the street to celebrate the massacre of children at religious schools. A few thousands means "some" in your terminology. Some Americans were killed in 9/11 attacks!

How do you eliminate Hamas without making things worse for everyone, likely killing many thousands of non-Hamas? If anyone has that solution I'd be glad to hear it. I'm sure Israel would too.
-------------------------------------
Since Hamas will use women/children as human shields while killing Israel women/children. Israel cannot come in and wipe out Hamas. In other words, they should continue to be killed. If another holocaust happens, it will help the peace process in any case. Thanks for the confirmation of the cheap liberal talking points.

BTW, "SOME" Palestinians will be harmed if Israel comes in and wipes out Hamas for the Palestian people. But obviously liberals don't want that in any case. It has to be perfect while liberals offer cheap condemnation (with SOME moral equivalency of course) when Jewish women/children are massacred and celebrated in cold blood.

mantis:

How do you eliminate Hamas without making things worse for everyone, likely killing many thousands of non-Hamas?

Ever head of this chap named "Manorial Blanch" ? His invasion resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of citizens to liberate a group of people. Clearly, fewer people would have died if he had simply chosen 'stability'. Btw, the name is an anagram. Was he in the wrong for his decision because it lead the more deaths ?

LAI: is it too much to ask liberals to make unequivocal condemnation of Hamas

Me: I unequivocally condemn Hamas

Irving: Pretty words. What do you think should back them? What kind of response does Hamas deserve for its atrocities?

Me: What do they deserve? I think they all deserve to be buried to their heads on the beach at low tide. But what they deserve and what can realistically be done are two different things.

Maggie: BTW you are not condemning any of
the other terror groups

Maggie: Mantis, the only goalpost moving
has been by you.

Yeah, ok.

zen, I think you should be banned for
the following anti-semitic post.

Nice hypocrisy dude, and you must be having very thick skin to cry victim on this, when Israel had slaughtered 120 Palestinians over the last 2 weeks, many of them children..Where was the moral cry of many who condemned this attack? Few other than Jews are crying..May be this seminary was one of the schools which taught that Jews have the divine right to torture Palestinians and kick them out of their legitimate homeland.

Mantis, thanks for agreeing. ;)

How do you eliminate Hamas without making things worse for everyone, likely killing many thousands of non-Hamas?
-------------------------------------
By openly calling for assasination of Hamas leaders from the top if attacks on Israel to occur. Or we would rather have Obama magic to turn them into peace-makers?

What do they deserve? I think they all deserve to be buried to their heads on the beach at low tide. But what they deserve and what can realistically be done are two different things.
------------------------------------
Thanks for confirming the cheap rhetoric again. They deserved to be wiped out, but Israel shouldn't do it because SOME Palestians will be used as human shields. In other words, realistically all we SHOULD do is to offer cheap condemnation (with SOME moral equivalency noise about distinguishing between Hamas and the Palestinians) whenever Jewish women/children are blown up.

Folks, this is a spiritual problem.

As long as the Palestinian people feel betrayed by the West, defiled by the Israelis, shamed in the eyes of other Arabs, and cursed in the eyes of Allah, they will not stop fighting.

As long as the Palestinians believe that killing Westerners and Israelis will alleviate their shame in the eyes of other Arabs, and will become penance in the eyes of Allah, eventually moving Him to restore honor to the Palestinian people and strike down Israel and the West, they will not stop fighting.

As long as the radical Muslim leaders in the Middle East keep feeding hatred, bigotry, and fear in the name of Allah to the Palestinian people, they will not stop fighting.

I've just explained why the Palestinians fight. Now, how do we Westerners, whom the Palestinians believe to be the agents of Satan who helped bring shame to Palestine, turn the spiritual condition of the Palestinians around? Do we do it by killing? Negotiation? How do we do it?