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Courting Ruin

Well, it's happened again. The Islamists are waging a fresh war in Western courts to get their way.

Actually, that's not quite true. They've managed to scare enough people that they're willing to do the Islamists' dirty work for them: some Dutch people are threatening to sue Geert Wilders if his film exposing Islam's dirty little secrets triggers a Muslim boycott of Dutch products in general.

(Hat tip: Ragnar Danneskjold)

My first reaction was like most others: I was appalled at the cowardly approach shown here. Mr. Wilders is not responsible for the unreasonable reactions of others to his film, and no one but him -- not the Dutch government or Dutch people -- should be responsible for his film.

But the more I thought about it, the more I found myself hoping they do file a suit against him. And more importantly, that they win that suit.

Yeah, it would suck for Mr. Wilders, but the consequences of such a lawsuit could be tremendous.

We would have, on the legal record in Holland, a ruling that Muslims can not be held to the same standard as normal, civilized people. That Muslims, in general, simply can not act like reasonable, mature, sensible human beings, and must be accorded special treatment and accomodations -- much like the physically and mentally handicapped -- to compensate for their shortcomings.

In this case, their inability to recognize certain inalienable human rights and control their fury and rage when provoked would accord them special protection from the sorts of things that the civilized world deals with -- and shrugs off -- on a daily basis.

And since rights and responsibilities are so thoroughly intertwined (or, at least, they ought to be), they would be enjoined from engaging in political discussions or talks about the nature of Islam in the West -- because they would be, as the Dutch court ruled -- too likely to get so inflamed that they would resort to violence.

It also ties in nicely with the move (which I normally oppose) of granting foreign court rulings any kind of legal standing here in the US. In this case, we ought to take it as a form of inspiration and warning about future cases being brought here -- and you KNOW they will be.

At least, that's how I think it ought to be. If your defense for something is "I couldn't control myself," then you have no right to bitch if the courts say "OK, but you're not allowed to let yourself get in that kind of position again" -- and makes it stick.

I am also reminded of the old legal defense if "insanity." At one point, an irresistible compulsion was the standard -- if you couldn't resist committing the act even in the presence of a police officer, you were ruled insane and couldn't be held liable for your actions. You'd still be locked up, but you'd be in a mental hospital, not a prison. Could this Dutch court ruling be extended to declare the vast majority of Muslims insane? They certainly talk like they would pass the above test.

Like I said, Mr. Wilders, sucks to be you. But at least you'll be a martyr.

That's a Western martyr, Mr. Wilders -- one who suffers or dies for his cause. Not a Muslim martyr, which means you died while slaughtering innocents in the name of Allah.

I like our martyrs better.


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Comments (26)

I think there's an importan... (Below threshold)
matthew:

I think there's an important distinction between "martyr" and "sacrificial lamb" that comes into play here, one that Mr. Wilders might find germane. Also, what do you mean by "vast majority" of Muslims? I don't know what proportion that denotes, but let's say it's 75%: were there really 750,000,000 people ready to commit murder or destroy public property (or at the very least stop buying Danish butter cookies) upon the publication of those shitty cartoons?

All that aside, it's a clever idea, Jay. The ruling, however, would not extend to "Muslims", but to "Muslims who become a violent bunch of fucking babies when somebody hurts their feelings". I know lots of Muslims, and most of them found the cartoons funny. It was a Muslim coworker, actually, who gave me the copy of Harper's with Art Spiegelman's "controversial" analysis of the cartoons and the reactions they provoked.

Yep, Europeans have no idea... (Below threshold)

Yep, Europeans have no idea what freedom of speech is or what it means, so this should come as no surprise.

I think the Muslims should ... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

I think the Muslims should boycott ALL products from the West, not just from the Netherlands alone. This would include computer technology, cell phones, weaponry, mass transit, automobiles, ..... The most radical elements have already called for the death of all infidels so I would like to see them really put some teeth into their indignation and disavow ANY Western influence - no exception.

...but America's friends in... (Below threshold)
matthew:

...but America's friends in Saudi Arabia really like high-end luxury goods, Dave, so that wouldn't happen.

(The only thing stupider than a $5,000 Louis Vuitton handbag, is when it's used to accessorize a burqha/hijab/whatever.)

Yep, Europeans have no idea... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Yep, Europeans have no idea what freedom of speech is or what it means, so this should come as no surprise.
------------------------------------
Do the Canadians still have an idea what freedom of speech means?

Do the Canadians still have... (Below threshold)
David:

Do the Canadians still have an idea what freedom of speech means?


No, just ask Mark Steyn

LoveAmerica - well, Mark St... (Below threshold)

LoveAmerica - well, Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant do... and when their cases get enough press, we'll find out how the rest feel about how far the HRC has gone.

"If your defense for som... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"If your defense for something is "I couldn't control myself," then you have no right to bitch if the courts say "OK, but you're not allowed to let yourself get in that kind of position again" -- and makes it stick."

..and makes it stick.

Ah. There's the rub.
Western courts would agree that Islamists shouldn't be blamed for anything but would not enforce that 'and make it stick' part.

So Islamists would get extra privelidges and none of the responsibilities.

Mark Steyn, the world's mos... (Below threshold)
matthew:

Mark Steyn, the world's most famous living hobbit, actually does some good in his crusade against Islam. I can't speak for my uptight nation as a whole, but I personally think it's good to let ignoramuses like him publicly air their views so that discussions about Islamophobia can focus on something lots of people read that's actually Islamophobic instead of merely critical of Islam.

Mark Steyn, the world's mos... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Mark Steyn, the world's most famous living hobbit, actually does some good in his crusade against Islam. I can't speak for my uptight nation as a whole, but I personally think it's good to let ignoramuses like him publicly air their views so that discussions about Islamophobia can focus on something lots of people read that's actually Islamophobic instead of merely critical of Islam.
-------------------------------------
This is a perfect example of the writing of an ignoramus who really doesn't know what he is talking about (and maybe envious of someone like Mark Steyn).

BTW, we found out today that Obama lied as much as Hillary. Wonder these ignoamuses still support Obama.

Looks like Canada wants to ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Looks like Canada wants to follow in the footsteps of the Europeans. They try to silence people like Mark Steyn while allowing Sharia?

Can tolerant Canada tolerate sharia?

I saw Fitna on Youtube. In... (Below threshold)
Herman:

I saw Fitna on Youtube. In checking a minute ago, it's still there, with 722,000 views. Pretty good video. Recommended.

A video similar to Fitna, t... (Below threshold)
Herman:

A video similar to Fitna, though focussing more on Islam's sexism than its violence, is Submission, and it too is recommended and on youtube.

I personally think... (Below threshold)
I personally think it's good to let ignoramuses like him publicly air their views so that discussions about Islamophobia can focus on something lots of people read that's actually Islamophobic instead of merely critical of Islam.

A 'phobia' is an unreasonable fear of something. Since fear of Islam is reasonable and justified, there is in fact no such thing as 'Islamaphobia'.

Sharia law was shot down in... (Below threshold)
matthew:

Sharia law was shot down in Ontario by our provincial Liberal government, because it's incompatible with our values which, while proudly pluralistic, are fundamentally liberal. Sharia is quintessentially illiberal. Use your words, "Love America Immigrant", and tell me a) why you like Mark Steyn; and b) why a North American needs to be concerned about demographic shifts brought about by scary Muslims having scary Muslim babies. Then c) tell me why you're such a baby and so easily scared by The Great Brown Mohammedan Menace.

I have a problem with good-hearted idiots concerned with "tolerance" telling cruel-hearted idiots like Mark Steyn that he can't say stupid things because some Muslims go batshit, though, so... I think we agree on that. I assume, though, that you take his writing to be a clarion call, whereas I appreciate how stupid he makes the rest of his Islamophobic colleagues look by association. He's afraid of Muslims, when he should be afraid of cancer, if his grasp of statistics and geography were at an eighth grade level.

So yeah, Mark Steyn is an idiot, and he looks like a hobbit, and your attempt at explaining the goings-on in Canada to a Canadian was about as successful as one would expect from you. I'm sad, though, to hear that Obama has lied. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Guess I won't be illegally voting for him.

OK, I've checked the IP pos... (Below threshold)

OK, I've checked the IP posting those last two comments, and I have to ask this:

Who the HELL are you, and what have you done with Herman?

J.

I'm okay, Jay... (Below threshold)
Herman:

I'm okay, Jay

Use your words, "Love Ameri... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Use your words, "Love America Immigrant", and tell me a) why you like Mark Steyn; and b) why a North American needs to be concerned about demographic shifts brought about by scary Muslims having scary Muslim babies. Then c) tell me why you're such a baby and so easily scared by The Great Brown Mohammedan Menace.
-------------------------------------
You are one ignoramus who is oblivious to the threat of radical jihadism. You use your silly generalization and anecdotal evidence to defend the radical Islamists who take advantage of Western freedom to silence people like Mark Steyn. I like Mark Steyn because he can write better than you do with much better insights. He is not anti-American and not pro-terrorists. Wonder why you are so afraid of people like Steyn (to use idiotic language like idiot to put him down while showing your own idiocy in confronting the Jihadist threat). Why you are acting like such baby while not being honest to admit your pro-jihadist view? (Let 's stop using the cheap moral equivalency arg about not all Muslims are bad. IT doesn't take much brain to say that. Not all Muslims are bad, but not enough of them are speaking out against the terrorists who are hijacking their religion). THey are trying to impose Sharia in England and Europe, and even in Canada. Why are so afraid to face the truth?


Why don't you go write a top-selling book like Mark Steyn did?

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/mark-steyn-faces-a-muslim-inquisition
The book, a No. 1 bestseller in Canada, argues that Western nations are succumbing to an Islamist imperialist threat. The fact that charges based on it are proceeding apace proves his point.

I'm sad, though, to hear th... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

I'm sad, though, to hear that Obama has lied. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Guess I won't be illegally voting for him.
------------------------------------
I am happy with that. Next time try some consistency wrt Romney for example even though you cannot legally vote for him either.

No amount of drivel spewed ... (Below threshold)
matthew:

No amount of drivel spewed by you, Steyn, or any other bed-wetter will make me suspicious of the family that owns the falafel place across from my office. Are you really such a paranoid wanker that you worry about the connivings of a bunch of crazy people? When some asshole says "I want to take over the world and subjugate your women," I laugh, whereas you get scared. Bed-wetter.

Oh, and the fact that enoug... (Below threshold)
matthew:

Oh, and the fact that enough Canadians are stupid enough to buy Steyn's book doesn't really mean anything. Naomi Klein's books are usually best-sellers: what does that mean to you? That we're a bunch of Islamophobic tree-hugging anti-corporate neo-conservative Marxist-anarchists?

Oh, and the fact that enoug... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Oh, and the fact that enough Canadians are stupid enough to buy Steyn's book doesn't really mean anything. Naomi Klein's books are usually best-sellers: what does that mean to you? That we're a bunch of Islamophobic tree-hugging anti-corporate neo-conservative Marxist-anarchists?
-------------------------------------
Thanks for admitting that the Canadians are stupid, especially the liberal ones, who are trying to justify the silencing of free speech by the radical Islamists. This is typical liberal "courage": making fun of the mormons, having fish Darwin symbol while pretending to show sensitivity to the radical jihadists.

At least Steyn write better and speaks the truth that you, ignoramus, are willfully ignorant of. You can be brave in Canada knowing that the US military will protect you. Or you are simply trying to buy the protection bracket by joining the cheap condemnation of more courageous people like Steyn. That 's liberal courage in full display. You care so much about racism that you even try to excuse the blatant racism of Pastor Wright for example.

Again, I just try to follow your logic here.

BTW, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin,... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

BTW, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Castro, and Chavez ... all have their useful idiots in the West. The jihadists can definitely use the service of their useful ignoramuses.

Where did I try to justify ... (Below threshold)
matthew:

Where did I try to justify the silencing of anyone's freedom of speech, douche bag?

The only reason people put Darwin fish on their cars, is because it makes cry babies angry. (Hint, hint.) If people weren't such bed-wetters about things like that, no one would think to do it. Bed-wetter. Go hide in a closet, I think a Lebanese engineer moved into your neighborhood.

Yes, jihadist's useful igno... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Yes, jihadist's useful ignoramuses, who are the true bet-wetters who have been showing their true religious bigotry (mormonphobia and christianphobia) while doing their useful service for the jihadist authoritarians.

Good summary of the jihadis... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Good summary of the jihadists' useful ignoramuses, who are proud of their cowardice and intolerance

Evolution of religious bigotry
The cowardice and intolerance of slapping a Darwin fish on your car bumper




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