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Convince Me

I had some fun yesterday, kicking over the anthill that is the Obama cult, and my, how the little critters are still furious about it. This is one reason I can't be a Democrat; the people in that party appear for the most part to be driven only by emotion. Sure, it makes sense to care about the issues and your candidate of choice, but there really should be rational, logical reasons for your positions. And frankly, the Left seems to hate the very idea of defending its positions with logic and evidence. Take Global Warming, for instance. I agree that we humans must be responsible for the materials we use, and to be accountable for the effect our actions have on other people and living things. But accepting radical demands simply because they are couched in the 'we can't wait to prove our case' arguments of Global Warming advocates is not rational, especially when there is reason to suspect hidden agenda and ulterior motives. Global Warming is an unproven theory, to say nothing of the claims that man's actions cause it or can stop it. The Kyoto Treaty stands out as a particularly deceitful and hypocritical example of the thinking, punishing the US while excusing, even rewarding third-world nations and places like China, whose actions are - using the logic of the Left - far more contributory to pollution and Global Warming. A reasonable person could well wonder why we should even be concerned with Carbon Dioxide, known to be beneficial to most plants and inert to humans except in levels on concentration impossible to find in Nature, especially when we could and to my mind should focus on real pollution from particulates and known carcinogens. And that is merely one of the more obvious examples.

Economics is another arena where Leftist demands run into brick walls of Reality. Take the recent hike in the minimum wage, an artificial creation of Congress which does nothing to increase the economy's effectiveness, but is merely another mechanism for wealth redistribution. The money to pay for the increased minimum comes from the businesses which pay employees, businesses which for the most part are sole proprietorships or small partnerships, that is businesses already running on tight margins which cannot afford to have their expenses increased simply because Congress wanted to do so. So they did what they had to do, they cut positions to make ends meet and this raised the unemployment rate. This is the same logic that adding a half-dollar tax on your gas would be a good idea, but if you look on the side of the pump the next time you fill up, you will see that the government thought that was a great idea, as well. The Left does not understand Economics, and certainly never considers the law of unintended consequences.

- continued -

This brings us back to the Left's poster boy for President; a guy whose experience is so thin that he barely got started in his first year as a Senator before he started running for President. A guy who boasted about his superior judgment, but who has had to admit that he did not really understand the character and nature of some of his closest associates. His mentor, Jeremiah Wright, has been exposed as an America-hating racist, yet Obama called this man his mentor and his closest advisor for years. Obama was a close acquaintance of Billy Ayers, even declared his candidacy from Ayer's house, but now it turns out that Ayers was not only a member of the infamous 'Weatherman' terrorist group in the 1960s, he still holds the same values he did then. We find that Obama made deals with his fund-raiser Antoin Rezko, at least before Mr. Rezko got himself indicted and convicted for fraud and corruption. The list goes on much further, but you get the idea ... Obama's associates were and are as dirty as those we once saw surrounding Richard Nixon. Different party, but the same game.

So, convince me guys. What is the rational argument for electing Obama? What empirical support can you point to, that shows he can do the job and is fit for it?

Is there anything inside that expensive suit but a con man?


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Comments (122)

You? Why bother?... (Below threshold)
mantis:

You? Why bother?

If someone said John McCain... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

If someone said John McCain wants to make abortions mandatory for Jews, sane people would say "You're a retard, shut up," but when you say Obama will respect no limits to his authority, and people say "You're a retard, shut up," you accuse them of cult-like behaviour.

What a very unserious person you are.

Here's a rational argument for electing Obama: getting to read your imbecilic post-election rage-splosion.

"So, convince me guys. ... (Below threshold)
marc:

"So, convince me guys. What is the rational argument for electing Obama?"

He's not Bush???!

You? Why bother?----... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

You? Why bother?
--------------------
Sounds like a typical distraction tactic to me.

So, you? why bother with facts and logic?

"So, you? why bother with f... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"So, you? why bother with facts and logic?"

Aw, you beat me to it, LAI! lol

Cool - the first 3 posts pr... (Below threshold)
Wright:

Cool - the first 3 posts prove your point.

<a href="http://soundpoliti... (Below threshold)
Ragnar Danneskjold:

SUCCESSFUL LIBERAL POLICIES OR IDEAS.... ARE THERE ANY?

I have been thinking long and hard about one persons repeated comments regarding the failure of the GOP in WA State. It makes me wonder what exactly is it about liberalism that has drawn such a disproportionate number of people to it in this area. My bias tells me liberalism for the masses is fairly easy, that rarely do the words of any individual liberal require any action. However we know for a fact that there have been plenty liberal policies enacted that would be considered actions. I then wondered, which of them (of those that easily spill from my head full of useless knowledge) have been successful and/or successful without the collateral

...Read the rest

If you were to interview Ob... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

If you were to interview Obama for an executive position in the private sector, he would not make it through the first introduction interview. He has no depth. No range. No real plans. If there ever was a candidate that proved lefties love sybolism over substance, Obama is it. He hangs around with haters, racists, theifs and terroists but the left gives him a pass cause he makes them feel good. The left is so pathetic. ww

Sounds like a typical di... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Sounds like a typical distraction tactic to me.

Sorry to distract you from DJ's constant stream of bullshit. Please go back to wallowing in it.

mcain the flip flopper stan... (Below threshold)
billy:

mcain the flip flopper stands for nothing excep[t depends at 3 am when the phone rings.

we only know he wont talk to iran. not enough reason to vote for a head in the sand bendf over, coward im afraid of that turban head in the cave repukelicon.

obama nation will rule the world and any coservatard that doesnt like it get out know before we kick your traitor ass out of our country. losers.

there really should be r... (Below threshold)
Brian:

there really should be rational, logical reasons for your positions.

You mean like these?

  • The first stage of any Democrat confronting Reality: Denial
  • Look at all the libs run and panic!
  • Mantis' posts must be the waffles that Obama finds so inviting for breakfast.
  • The screech potential alone from the Obamabaters made this post impossible not to post. Wonder how long they will keep up the whining?

Ooh, such rational, logical reasoning.

Wow, you repubs are scared ... (Below threshold)
Don:

Wow, you repubs are scared sh*tless. Hillary underestimated him too. LOL!!!

I consider the "global warm... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

I consider the "global warming" phenomenon a farce, and a religious movement that is a throwback to plain old-style paganism. Unfortunately, the Republicans offer little alternative. McCain is nearly as eager to jump on the paganwagon as Obama. Hardly a Republican candidate in the primary had the guts to differ on the issue.

Republicans are squandering the chance to distinguish themselves on a number of issues. They have become Democrat lite. They suck.

Obama would be in much worse trouble if he were not in the same boat as the other presidential candidate. Neither of them offer compelling reasons for their base to vote for them, therefore the negatives cancel each other out.

obama nation will rule t... (Below threshold)
Clay:

obama nation will rule the world and any coservatard that doesnt like it get out know before we kick your traitor ass out of our country. losers.

Golly. I don't know about you guys, but I'm convinced.

Don, how can you, even in y... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Don, how can you, even in your pea sized brain, get that republicans are scared? How does that work? Really, in your narrow world, how does it work? ww

Like I have stated on these... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Like I have stated on these pages before, the best reason to elect Obama is to destroy the Democrat party and get conservatives back in power again. There are two risks, however. One risk is that Obama will do irreparable damage to the nation before he's impeached. The other and greater risk is that he might be able to fake it. If Jimmy Carter could get through a term then maybe Obama could also.

The other reason to elect Obama is that it will be lots more fun posting about Obama's lies, crimes and failed policies, then it will be defending McCain.

So there you have it. Two rational reasons to elect Obama. Besides that I'm having fun using the "C" word in posts.

Excellent points all, DJ -<... (Below threshold)
apb:

Excellent points all, DJ -

They all tie into the chronic, grandiose gibbering of what passes for 'thought' in the progressive brain. For some reason, the 'rational' portion of these brains is turned off, and the 'rationalizing' portion is hyperative.

The progressive 'brain' will concoct a hugely complex analysis on the simplest problem. I'm lucky I can still read for pleasure, even though my brain was poisoned in college by those professors demanding I analyze motifs, motives, foreshadowing, and a host of other trivial pursuits in literature. Double goes for the GWOT - progressive 'brains' search for "root causes" (usually involving the U.S.) when the terrorists have come right out and stated they want a Caliphate in Iraq, and Islam to rule all.

I think Obomber suffers mightily from hubris and denial. He's thinks he's the sharpest knife in the drawer, and as his rants about the economy (still expanding!) and Iraq (still improving!) show, he's completely detached from reality. Why avoid the realities of the Laffer curve and how it defines the tax rate/tax receipts curve? Why not understand the concept of the "strong horse" being the victor? He's too smart for that trivia! CHANGE!

Obomber is worse that an empty suit - he's a mouthpiece for a gang of progressives hoping for a takeover and remaking of the U.S. in their tragic image. Imagine our nation 'led' by this buffoon - whose magic speaking ability disappears without a teleprompter. How will his unscripted chats with Ahmadinnerjacket proceed?

"obama nation will rule the... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"obama nation will rule the world and any coservatard that doesnt like it get out know before we kick your traitor ass out of our country. losers." LOL!

Let me fix that for you: Abomination will rule the tools of this world and if any person, even with the slightest amount of common sense can't perceive this, you're luck ran out long ago so you're better off moving to Iran. That way, you can "chat" with the natives and find just how much they "appreciate" you being an American.

There. Much better!

"You? Why bother?"... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"You? Why bother?"

Because Obama's your candidate, and you're going to have to pick up as many independent voters as possible. If your reply to someone who asks "Why Obama?" is "You're too damn dim to understand" - you've just created a vote for McCain.

The thing that bugs me abou... (Below threshold)
David:

The thing that bugs me about Obama isn't that he is vacuous (and he is) or bereft of real ideas, but that he is a Chicago machine politician. I wish Mike Royko were still alive, I am willing to bet that Barack would not be the nominee if he were. Only those who have lived near Chicago for a while understand how hideous the machine is.

The more I read this crap f... (Below threshold)
OTIENO:

The more I read this crap from Retardlicans the more I see why they cannot understand the pheonom that is around Obama. But i dont blame you. It seems that anything that is not good for the human race has Retardlicans associated with it. This time we are no longer going to wait for change...we are doing it ourselves. The war was a lie ..yet you seem not to grasp that. To you its ok. Who gained out of this war..and if it was for oil, like Mccain bluthered recently then why the high gass prices. Those who follow the retards just to be or label yourself 'Conservative' should look at the word and not be facinated by its sound or lenght..There is more to life than being a "Retardlican"...and I use 'Retardlicans" freely because all they have done is Retard America.

Let me fix that for you:... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Let me fix that for you: Abomination will rule the tools...There. Much better!

And much clearer. I suspect clarity is not billy's strong suit (this child may have been left behind). I'm sure he or she appreciated the assist.

Funny. Some of the usual De... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Funny. Some of the usual Dem and/or BDS loudmouths are specifically asked for their opinions in this blog article, and all they can do is post lame insults.

There is more to life th... (Below threshold)
Clay:

There is more to life than being a "Retardlican"...and I use 'Retardlicans" freely because all they have done is Retard America.

They've got us on the run today, boys. I just wasn't prepared for this.

OTIENO -You're no doubt a p... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

OTIENO -You're no doubt a progressive; as in a fatal disease. You think the current war is bad? Just wait until Obama tries to convince Ahmadinnerjacket that he's the twelfth manure.

Who gained out of this w... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Who gained out of this war..and if it was for oil, like Mccain bluthered recently then why the high gass prices.

Awright! Who told them? You guys know that the gass price thingy was double top secret!

Because Obama's your can... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Because Obama's your candidate, and you're going to have to pick up as many independent voters as possible.

DJ is an independent voter? Hilarious.

If your reply to someone who asks "Why Obama?" is "You're too damn dim to understand" - you've just created a vote for McCain.

That's not my reply. My reply is that DJ is a dishonest hack who's never been interested in real discussion and would never vote for a Democrat, so why bother? Would you try to convince Oliver Willis to vote for McCain (or Bush, or any Republican?).

mantis - well, how about an... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

mantis - well, how about answering the question for the rest of us who are genuinely interested?

Sorry, Mantis -DJ ... (Below threshold)
apb:

Sorry, Mantis -

DJ posited a simple question. "What is the rational argument for electing Obama?"

Obviously a toughie, ubt what's your answer?

"OTIENO -You're no doubt a ... (Below threshold)
OTIENO:

"OTIENO -You're no doubt a progressive; as in a fatal disease. You think the current war is bad? Just wait until Obama tries to convince Ahmadinnerjacket that he's the twelfth manure."

Did you ever wonder why dinnerjacket toyed with the British soldiers when he captured them. Bush is preaching and preparing for invasion. Tony Blair resigned for running with Bush! The French and the Russians did not support the war because it was snatching the bread out of their mouths. So Convince me why I should be republican based on all these lies and deceptions out of republicans. STOP.!!GET REAL..THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE BEHIND OBAMA. OPEC TAUGHT BUSH AND CRONIES...the American people suffer with high gass pricess.

C'mon mantis. Show us there... (Below threshold)
Clay:

C'mon mantis. Show us there are voices of reason (other than the current examples) who are for Obama. Personally, I'm an 'independent' with a very strong dislike for McCain and an inclination to vote for none of the above'.

How could Obama get me out of the house on Election Day?

(Sigh...) An obvious typo, ... (Below threshold)
apb:

(Sigh...) An obvious typo, but the question stands.

(Editor's Note: third time'... (Below threshold)
John Ryskamp:

(Editor's Note: third time's the charm. Ryskamp, for cutting and pasting the same thing THREE TIMES, is now banned. -J.)

Those who would vote for a ... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Those who would vote for a candidate who would say something as stupid as this:

"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."

Are not capable of rational thought or logic so don't expect an answer to your question D.J. Not gonna happen.

OTIENO -Fuel price... (Below threshold)
apb:

OTIENO -

Fuel price is simple - increased demand against Democrat-constrained supply. Be a daring progressive and tell your Congress-moron to expand U.S. supply. You can BANK that mere talk about opening western-U.S. shale supply would pop a speculative bubble.

Obama will shortly be in... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Obama will shortly be indicted under 18 USC 1346, which is the same provision under which Rezko was convicted.

That's all well and good, but I'm looking reasons to vote for Obama, and vote against McCain. Who can help?

"Who can help?"... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"Who can help?"

A doctor that performs lobotomies might do the trick.

OH JUST SO YOU KNOW MCCELLA... (Below threshold)
OTIENO:

OH JUST SO YOU KNOW MCCELLAN AS BEEN REQUESTED TO TESTIFY TO CONGRESS 'WHAT THE F**K IS GOIN ON WITH THESE THINGS YOU SAY IN YOUR MEMIORS.' GUESS WHO IS GOING TO JAIL. OBAMA IS BEYOND THAT ...ITS TWIST IN THE LAW...HOW ABOUT INDICTING BUSH...BLATANT WARMONGER.
depp=true
notiz=According to your ip address you are a sock puppet.

"What is the rational argum... (Below threshold)
GarandFan Author Profile Page:

"What is the rational argument for electing Obama?"

He's black, you racist! He'll heal the nation, stop the oceans from rising, compensate the poor, provide health care for the indigent, discover new sources of carbon-neutral energy, provide free higher education.

All hail the Obamassiah!!

I wonder how much Hillary i... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

I wonder how much Hillary is paying Ryskamp to spam blogs with the same message over and over again?

DJ posited a simple ques... (Below threshold)
mantis:

DJ posited a simple question. "What is the rational argument for electing Obama?"

That depends. Do any of you consider any policy positions to the left of Ronald Reagan to be rational? If so, I can tell you why I will vote for Obama. If not, why should I waste the time in typing?

Making snarky comments and posting silly links is way less time consuming, and at least there's the possibility I'll get a laugh.

I've spent countless hours having reasoned debate about politics with honest-to-god conservatives. We disagree, but sometimes we persuade each other, and in the end we understand each others viewpoints, and are friends. But that is real life, and this is the internet. Such interactions are rare amid the din of the ramblings and ravings of countless fevered egos.

It is entirely possible tha... (Below threshold)

It is entirely possible that Barack Hussein Obama would be a WORSE president than James Earl Carter, Jr. because at least Jimmy Carter had some business experience as governor of Georgia and running a successful peanut farm - from what I can glean from the various sources, including Obama's own campaign website, Senator Obama has been living off the public teat for his entire professional life - that and the earnings of his wife who is a corporate creature of major earnings potential!

So all y'all who want to return to those glorious days of 10% unemployment, 20% inflation, lines around the block waiting for gasoline, and a friendly government being overthrown while a bunch of 7th century retarded savages laughed at our nation - hey vote for the s.o.b. AND prepare to enjoy maximum misery as you've never known it - because trust me, that's what will result from an Obama presidency.

And to the moron who suggested we who don't adore the great pretender Obama, we should just "get out" - hate to tell you this bucko but it's MY country too! And I venture to say I have more education on its history and institutions than the illiterate who posted that "get out" missive.

Sorry to distract you from ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Sorry to distract you from DJ's constant stream of bullshit. Please go back to wallowing in it.
-------------------------------------
Sounds like another distraction tactic to me again. From a person who is wallowing in Obama bullshit.

I have spent countless hours pointing out the distraction and bad logic/facts from a wallower of Obama bullshit.

I have my own words, rq, an... (Below threshold)
relevent_questions:

I have my own words, rq, and your banal attempt to convey how I write does not even hit the barn for accuracy, let alone the target. [DJ]

I can tell you why I will v... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

I can tell you why I will vote for Obama.
------------------------------------
I don't care why you will vote for Obama. The facts on Obama show that at least you have a high tolerance for his bullshit of long association of anti-semites, domestic terrorists, shady characters, and so on.

Like I was saying...... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Like I was saying...

Like I was saying...... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Like I was saying...
-------------------------
Like I was saying! This is another distraction tactic when the wallower of Obama bullshit runs out of logic and facts.

You know, I have a friend w... (Below threshold)

You know, I have a friend who hated Bush horribly (probably still does) and he went on a tear one day about the Kyoto treaty. He was terribly upset that Bush didnt' sign onto it and why was America not doing our part etc...

I told him that was a good point and I honestly didn't know enough about the treaty to argue one way or the other.

I asked him if he had read it (so I could honestly get information on it because I felt bad at being uninformed). He replied he had not. I asked specific questions about it which he couldn't answer. I then asked one more question.

If you don't know anything about the treaty, why are you so gung ho to have us sign it?

In summation:"W... (Below threshold)

In summation:

"Why should we vote FOR Obama?"

"Because, you're a retard."

Um...OK.

As to the claim that the GOP is retarding America, which party says to teachers, "You don't need to be qualified to teach. We will oppose whatever proposed teacher standards the teachers unions tell us to."

Which party promises kids that no matter how f***ing stupid they are, and no matter how poorly they do in their schools taught by the aforementioned teachers, they'll be paid a "living wage" regardless of any actual economic output on their part.

Which party proposes to spend billions of tax dollars bringing the above scenario to reality?

I'm putting the over/under on OTIENO's age at 19-1/2.

Relevent_questions, looks l... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Relevent_questions, looks like you have all the ad hominem arguments used by the AGW proponents down pat.

"Why should we vote FOR Oba... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

"Why should we vote FOR Obama?"
---------------------------------
I don't know how anyone who claim to care about racism and anti-semitism (on top of his extremist abortion position and foreign policy) can vote for Obama. Someone can try to convince me of their rationality!

Mantis -If your im... (Below threshold)
apb:

Mantis -

If your immediate action is to attack the messenger (c'mon - look at your posts) you'll get no consideration. I live in IL, so I know what worthless spew our political machine generates. Obomber IS that product. What redeeming quality do you see?

...and John McCain employs ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

...and John McCain employs corrupt lobbyists in his campaign staff, LAI. So go vote for an angry old man who supports campaign finance and employs former lobbyists to run his straight-talk campaign of maverickness. Stupid old coot doesn't even know the difference between Shi'ite and Sunni Islam. Clearly not one to be trusted in this age of nuanced Islamomarxicommunofeminazifascism.

angry old man... (Below threshold)
Clay:

angry old man
Stupid old coot

Why do you hate the elderly so much?

Because they give out the s... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Because they give out the shittiest candy on Halloween.

I live in IL, so I know ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I live in IL, so I know what worthless spew our political machine generates.

Ah, guilt by association. Always a convincing argument (if you're arguing with rocks). Well, I live in Chicago, and work on the south side, and know a lot about what our political machine generates. Obama has stayed remarkably clean, considering.

He is a politician though. While I am going to vote for him, he's not flawless, he's not my hero, he's not a god. I like his policy proposals, I think he would be very good at diplomacy, and I don't think he would get us involved in any more ill-conceived wars. Plus, he brings a lot of new voters to the booth.

Btw, Obama was my fourth choice for the nomination (and no, Clinton was not above him).

HoustonActually, K... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Houston

Actually, Kyoto came up under Clinton, not Bush. The Senate voted something like 99-0 to not ratify it and send it to Clinton.

I wasn't going to mention it because it's OT, but since the Obamabots are too yellow to answer the topic of this post...

They just keep on talking yet they really aren't saying anything.

Hyperbolist, Since ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Hyperbolist,
Since you hate lobbyist so much that you vote for a hypocrite like Obama? Just like you hate racism and anti-semitism so much that you are going to vote for Obama? You must love Obama 's great insight on the 57 states of America. That 's liberal definition of intelligence?

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/10/obamas-hypocrisy-on-johnson-continues/

Apparently, what's good for the goose has no relation to the gander in the Barack Obama campaign. After David Axelrod shrieked about Mark Penn's connection to Countrywide during the primaries, the Obama campaign seems rather undisturbed about their own connections to the subprime lender. Despite a Wall Street Journal article detailing millions of dollars received by Jim Johnson in sweetheart loans from Countrywide, Obama has publicly declared he will stand by Johnson,

Obama has stayed remarkably... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Obama has stayed remarkably clean, considering.
------------------------------------
From a wallower of Obama bullshits despite contrary facts!

Hey! 56 comments and we fin... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Hey! 56 comments and we finally get an answer. Not very convincing, but it's a weak start at least.

I like his policy proposals... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

I like his policy proposals,
------------------------------
Like denying medical care for surviving aborted babies but absolutely ban waterboarding of even high level terrorists (and unconditional talk with American enemies). Maybe also his policies regarding Israel from his long association with anti-semitic and anti-American views.

"The facts on Obama show th... (Below threshold)
OTIENO:

"The facts on Obama show that at least you have a high tolerance for his bullshit of long association of anti-semites, domestic terrorists, shady characters, and so on."

Are you reffering to the characters mentioned in Mcclellans Memiors. Funny you dont see this things happening now but you can speculate about Obama...what are you guys now, fortune tellers?

Let us vote in one of our own 'shady character' You have Bush and his cronies!

I like his policy propos... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I like his policy proposals, I think he would be very good at diplomacy, and I don't think he would get us involved in any more ill-conceived wars. Plus, he brings a lot of new voters to the booth.

Hey. We're getting somewhere. Now, can I ask a couple of questions?

Does he have any particular policies that you like? What is it that leads you to believe that he would be good at diplomacy?

OTIENO, you are an annoying... (Below threshold)
Eric:

OTIENO, you are an annoying little child. The question of this thread is why vote for Obama. It has nothing to do with Bush, it really has nothing to do with McCain. Why don't you either contribute to the discussion or shut up?

"Wow, you repubs are sca... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"Wow, you repubs are scared sh*tless."

Oh please. No. Not scared at all. I'll be alright. I am a very resourceful individual willing to work hard and take my knocks and keep moving. I don't have to like it, but hey.

I feel sorry for all the poor saps who think their big payday is coming. That ship you're waiting for is loaded with pirates. Sadly, when you find out you're no better off and maybe worse off you still won't make the connection.

While I am going to vote fo... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

While I am going to vote for him, he's not flawless, he's not my hero, he's not a god. I like his policy proposals, I think he would be very good at diplomacy, and I don't think he would get us involved in any more ill-conceived wars.
-------------------------------------
BTW, I noticed the "logic" here. No one is perfect, so long/close association with anti-semites, anti-American terrorists, shady characters etc... is OK as long as he has policy proposals that you like.

That 's OK, but we can put it on the record that racism, anti-semitism etc... is not at all important to the left. So during the general election, if we hear them raise the issue of racism, we know that they are lying.

Eric,I made sure tha... (Below threshold)
OTIENO:

Eric,
I made sure that Bush was in your face. You see you resorted to name calling ...its working. Who else is there to vote for once you take out Bush and Mcpain?
And those are my contribution to remind you that a nation can choose its own leader like never before...That is why I will vote for him...and his father is from my TRIBE.

Les: I can't vote, but I'd ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Les: I can't vote, but I'd vote for Obama because he's a social liberal and would make better choices for the SCOTUS than Real Life Abe Simpson. He seems less inclined to attack other countries than McCain, and he has never been accused of calling his wife a c*nt.

Clay: I also can't stand the elderly because they can't drive for shit, and talk way too much about the weather or how everything costs too much.

Hyperbolist, You fo... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Hyperbolist,
You forget to add that he is a good "liar" in the mold of Clinton. In the end you like his agenda of denying medical care to surviving aborted babies while giving maximum legal protection to the terrorists. Also he is good at using lobbyists for his own political career. He is good at throwing his friends, family members under the bus when it suits his political career.

\"Relevent_questions, looks... (Below threshold)
relevent_questions:

\"Relevent_questions, looks like you have all the ad hominem arguments used by the AGW proponents down pat.\"SPQR looks like you still don\'t fully understand what an Ad hominem is. I think a dictionary would greatly enrich your life.
depp=true

SPQR looks like you still d... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

SPQR looks like you still don\'t fully understand what an Ad hominem is. I think a dictionary would greatly enrich your life.

------------------------------------

Another one trying to pull a Mantis.

I also can't stand the e... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I also can't stand the elderly because they can't drive for shit, and talk way too much about the weather or how everything costs too much.
Because they give out the shittiest candy on Halloween.

Now this oughta be interesting.

How about if you substitute blacks for elderly and they in your comments. You don't see anything wrong? Do you still think it's funny?

mantis @ 3:37 PM -... (Below threshold)

mantis @ 3:37 PM -

You're not trying to convince DJ, that's clear. What you ought to be considering, however, is the unaligned voter who might wander through. He sees stuff like what's posted in this thread, do you REALLY think he's going to be inclined towards Obama? Billy's post at 2:53 is a GREAT example of someone who is not helping at all. Same thing with Hyperbolist, and OTIENO. Yeah, they're having fun - but how does it do anything to help Obama?

Hell, one of the things that really turned me off on Ron Paul, to the point I wouldn't even look at his platform, was the way his 'supporters' acted. You couldn't question them, you couldn't even get them to stop spamming boards wherever He Who They Worshipped was named.

It doesn't matter how great your candidate is (in your estimation) if your actions supporting him are repellent. And the decision to vote for a candidate is made up of many factors - including whether or not you'd want to be associated with the kind of people who're supporting him.

mantis - I hardly ever comm... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

mantis - I hardly ever comment on this blog, so your comments don;t apply to me. Seriously, what is your answer?

Wow, John Ryskamp can cut a... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

Wow, John Ryskamp can cut and paste! Another one saved from technophobia! John, your next assignment is to change a .bmp file to a .jpg format.

Now ... OTIENO:

The shift key is your friend. If you can't refrain from hitting the CapsLock key, I'm afraid we're going to have to take it away from you.

And last ... Mantis

"I've spent countless hours having reasoned debate about politics with honest-to-god conservatives."

Yeah, because I can see how you have just tried so hard to foster reasonable debate here. The vast majority of your commentary here is to show contempt. It's a mystery why some of us don't respond warmly to that.

Yeah, I still think it's fu... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Yeah, I still think it's funny, but not as applied to old people who are visible minorities or LGBT. They deserve our love and respect. It's just old white people that I can't stand.

Shit dude, I didn't figure you'd take something like that seriously.

Reason to vote for Obama: he just said he's not going to take any money from lobbyists. Democratic lobbyists are pissed off, but hey, screw 'em. Will McCain take the same position? He should. This is a good first step towards ridding Congress of its incumbency problem, and if it works, you'll have Barack Obama to thank for it.

Yeah, because I can see ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Yeah, because I can see how you have just tried so hard to foster reasonable debate here.

This ain't my blog. I adjust to the environment.

I'll get to the rest later tonight.

Mantis -Thanks for... (Below threshold)
apb:

Mantis -

Thanks for the reply - your thoughts on the matter certainly add to the discourse. I won't hold my breath on the lobbyist thing until the end of the Rezco shakeout. As for Obomber's negotiating skills - his poor performance in handling the Wright/Pfleger/Rezco shows him to be either a ruthless user of people or a tin-eared bureaucrat that doesn't have a clue he's being used.

Either way, not the guy I want negotiating with the Ahmadinnerjacket crowd.

Shit dude, I didn't figu... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Shit dude, I didn't figure you'd take something like that seriously.

Back the frick up. You didn't think I'd take it serious? You jump all over my ass last week about generalizations scrapiron allegedly made about blacks, and you accused me of racism and you wonder how this is not applicable? You make broad generalizations about the elderly and you apply those characterizations to McCain, and you don't understand how I would take that seriously? You are either insensitive or a hypocrite, or possibly both.

I am not a fan of McCain, but I will say that his years contain service to his country that should not be minimized by flippant generalizations. For crying out loud, have some decency.

JLawson: "It doesn't mat... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

JLawson: "It doesn't matter how great your candidate is (in your estimation) if your actions supporting him are repellent"

Exactly. This behavior is one significant reason Obama will lose this fall.

... (waits for the inevitable venom spray from Mantis & his gang) ...

Hey, if the B. Hussein Obam... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Hey, if the B. Hussein Obama-as-secret-Muslim gets to get kicked around for fun, supposedly just to annoy people like me, why can't I point out that McCain is old, and that old people aren't as good at certain things? I mean, at least there's performance differences between old and young people, whereas there are none between people who have Arabic middle names and people who do not.

If you weren't scared, you ... (Below threshold)
Don:

If you weren't scared, you wouldn't be constantly blathering about him, you would just dismiss him. The furious repub attacks show real fear. I can't wait for BHO to restore the US constitution. No more holding US citizens without trial, no more wiretapping without warrants, no more looking at library records without warrants. The repubs are too stupid to protect the country without trampling the constitution with their jack boots.

at least there's perform... (Below threshold)
Clay:

at least there's performance differences between old and young people,

Amazing. Now recognize you.

STOP.!!GET REAL..T... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
STOP.!!GET REAL..THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE BEHIND OBAMA. OPEC TAUGHT BUSH AND CRONIES...the American people suffer with high gass pricess.

Please stay a progressive. You don't have enough going on inside your head to be a conservative.

That is why I will vote for him...and his father is from my TRIBE.

Seriously that's funny. Here I though you were just another self-hating cracker.

hyperbolist -The m... (Below threshold)
apb:

hyperbolist -

The muslim thing carries zero weight, just like McCain's age. The question should be why Obomber hangs around with so many radical loonies, then pretends he didn't know that's what they are. At the very least, he's using them for his own gain - taking the dough and recommendations and running; then he's merely a hypocrite. At the worst, he IS one of them, and shouldn't be elected dog-catcher.

The repubs are too... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
The repubs are too stupid to protect the country without trampling the constitution with their jack boots.

Speaking of jack boots Obama has bigger ones that Bush. Obama has already proposed a federal law that would override the political process in at least 33 states by imposing a ban on all carry permits except for retired police and military. Bush is at least trying to protect the nation from the proven danger of foreign terrorists. Obama wants to protect the nation from it's most law abiding citizens and he's willing to circumvent the 10th amendment to do it. As for warrantless wire taps, we had them before Bush and we'll have them after Bush, just ask Eliot Spitzer.

Don = bag o' hammers<... (Below threshold)
apb:

Don = bag o' hammers

The wiretapping made it through all legal challenges, was effective in identifying overseas terrorist cells, and IS in fact Constitutionally enabled.

Did you just drop in from Pluto, or haven't you been paying attention? What part of the Constitution is Obomber going to restore? Why do progressives always continue to fantasize about their National Socialist/Communist jackboot-wearing predecessors?

Hey, if the B. Hussein O... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Hey, if the B. Hussein Obama-as-secret-Muslim gets to get kicked around for fun,

Y'know, you've been batting around that ball of yarn all day, but the fact is that Obama has provided so much other material that his middle name is old, old news. Do a Google search and all you'll find is a carfull of 3rd tier amateurs on the BHO train. Everybody's necessarily moved on from there, so any talk of it is a red herring. It's not even a bumper sticker anymore.

JLawson: "It doesn't mat... (Below threshold)
Brian:

JLawson: "It doesn't matter how great your candidate is (in your estimation) if your actions supporting him are repellent"
Exactly. This behavior is one significant reason Obama will lose this fall.

Hey, DJ finally made a statement to support one of his positions! Unfortunately, it was someone else's statement. And it didn't really support anything. Oh, nevermind.

Yeah, I still thi... (Below threshold)
Maggie:
Yeah, I still think it's funny, but not as applied to old people who are visible minorities or LGBT. They deserve our love and respect. It's just old white people that I can't stand.

I guess it has never occurred to you what the age
factor might be on wiabang, did it.
You are on my short list and my last nerve.

Well, I managed to read thr... (Below threshold)

Well, I managed to read through all this mad raving that will in the end make little difference in the outcome of the election. People believe what they want to believe, not what they ought to believe. By the time we get the "facts" from the media, we don't have a clue what the truth really is.
I won't vote for Obama because he looks like a president in the image of Mugabe in Zimbabwe, who drove his once prosperous country into poverty through abuse of power and egotistical decisions. He thought he knew how to govern, but obviously he was a farce.
Long ago, I learned to distrust politicians who made the biggest promises in order to get votes from the most gullible people. We shouldn't vote for the promisers, but for the deliverers.
I am saddened as I see so many gullible fish falling for Barack's artificial bait.
I am not keen on voting for McCain, but after reading what Obama supporters wrote, I am going to have to do it. Congratulations on helping me make up my mind.

Almost amusing how fast the... (Below threshold)
SPQR:

Almost amusing how fast the Obama supporters run to the insults about the elderly ... wow, guess Obama just can't bridge that divide about hating the elderly can he?

At least not with his supporters.

Before you embarrass yourse... (Below threshold)
Rance:

Before you embarrass yourself further with the claims about "deals" that Obama made with Rezko, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the facts.
Eric Zorn did a pretty good job of laying them out here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/columnists/chi-zorn-10-jun10,0,3659993.column

I suspect he even had researchers verify what he wrote by getting the relevant documents from the county clerk's office.

If you had followed the Rezko case, you would know that Obama was never in a position to be involved with Rezko's crimes. In court, his came up only at the fringes of testimony and never in connection with being in any way involved. You might want to take a look at the transcript.

I find it amusing that so m... (Below threshold)
Wanderlust:

I find it amusing that so many people continue to blame Bush for the failure to sign Kyoto and for fighting "foreign wars"; never mind that LBJ (Democrat) was responsible for the troop escalations in Vietnam (1965) and that Clinton found himself into Sudan (1993) and Serbia (1998). Clinton deployed troops into battlefields that had no strategic purpose for the US to fight; a promise that Bush kept (notice he has resisted calls to intervene in Darfur).

I will hold my nose and vote for McCain because Obama was ready to toss out the surge strategy in Iraq without talking to troops on the ground when the strategy was pushed by McCain in early 2007. Obama talked to some people about his position, yes, but he has failed to grasp the significance of US involvement in Iraq, much less the far greater significance of withdrawal without ensuring that we leave Iraq in a stable political environment.

I am old enough to remember what the Windfall Profits Tax on oil companies did to the economy when Carter was President.

I remember what Carter's refusal to defend US soil in Iran (embassy) did to US prestige and influence in the world, especially amongst our enemies, and the results of it (and yes, one of my complaints with Reagan is that he did not stay the course in Lebanon after the bombing in 1983).

I remember what Carter's willingness to overlook the requirement for political stability did with regards to Iran and the middle east, and the outcomes of his bribe to Egypt with regards to the Camp David accords (1977).

Strip away Obama's rhetoric of "hope and change", and compare his policy positions - the few that he has truly outlined - to those of Jimmy Carter. Carter's positions on the economy and foreign policy created runaway stagflation (21% inflation by 1980) and led to the fall of Iran (1979) and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (1980).

While causing economic misery at home, Carter's policies made the world much less safe to live in because the US was seen to be a "paper tiger" that was unwilling to defend its interests.

Meanwhile Obama has had several policy shifts over the last year in regards to his stance on Iran, nuclear weapons proliferation, Israel, and the economy (most notably his huge NAFTA gaffe with Canada).

While I will be holding my nose, I will vote McCain because four years of another Carteresque presidency, I believe, will be four years of economic misery and a more dangerous world.

And I am happy to discuss Obama's policy points in detail with anyone who wants to discuss them, later today, if someone wants a rational discussion about them.

-Wanderlust

BTW, trivia fanatics, you c... (Below threshold)
Wanderlust:

BTW, trivia fanatics, you can find the text of the Byrd-Hagel resolution here (105th Congress, 1st Session, Senate Resolution 98).

Sorry, I forget who was President until January 20, 2001?

That's right; it was OK for Clinton to mind the intent of SR 98 (for the last three years of his presidency no less), but not Bush, right?

Money quote (emphasis mine):

Resolved, That it is the sense of the Senate that--

(1) the United States should not be a signatory to any protocol to, or other agreement regarding, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change of 1992, at negotiations in Kyoto in December 1997, or thereafter, which would--

(A) mandate new commitments to limit or reduce greenhouse gas emissions for the Annex I Parties, unless the protocol or other agreement also mandates new specific scheduled commitments to limit or reduce greenhouse gas emissions for Developing Country Parties within the same compliance period or

(B) would result in serious harm to the economy of the United States; and

(2) any such protocol or other agreement which would require the advice and consent of the Senate to ratification should be accompanied by a detailed explanation of any legislation or regulatory actions that may be required to implement the protocol or other agreement and should also be accompanied by an analysis of the detailed financial costs and other impacts on the economy of the United States which would be incurred by the implementation of the protocol or other agreement.

I will say this: If anybody... (Below threshold)
Clay:

I will say this: If anybody hears the claim that "our individual salvation depends on collective salvation" and doesn't feel a shiver along the spine, then that person is unfamiliar with U.S. Constitution.

Thanks, Wanderlust -<... (Below threshold)
apb:

Thanks, Wanderlust -

You not only hit the nail on the head, you drove it all the way through the board...

"That is why I will vote... (Below threshold)
914:

"That is why I will vote for him...and his father is from my TRIBE."

Did not know the Nation of Islam had Tribes?

DJ, once again an exception... (Below threshold)
Don:

DJ, once again an exceptional post. After reading the foregoing comments, I found that as usual the inane comments from the leftist party have received the proper retorts. I would like to make two comments.
#49 Bruce, I would add to your comments the following: The donkey party, proir to the 2006 election promised to lower the gas prices, which were at the time around $2.00 a gal.
I would like to disavow the comments made by Don in comments #12 and 82. Yet it is nice to know that there are other people out there with my first name.

Using the standard talking ... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica, Immigrant:

Using the standard talking points from the left, we can blame all the trouble we have right now on the Dems since they came into power in 2006. Obama is even a greater disaster if the change the dems brought in the last 2 years is an indication of future. The dems fully instituted the culture of corruption (along the same line of Obama Chicago politics) in Washington. They doubled the porks on short order. They continue to block domestic drilling despite the high gas prices. The minimum wage increase directly contributed to the rise in unemployment (esp those with entry level jobs). Obama 's long and close association with the radical leftists with anti-semitic, anti-American, and Marxist views shows the true color of the left and the dem party.

LAI - My feeling i... (Below threshold)

LAI -

My feeling is that things would only get worse.

The Democrats haven't been dedicated to 'solving' problems for a good 20-30 years - they're dedicated to getting votes. Any proposed 'solutions' will SOUND absolutely excellent, but solve pretty much nothing. And that's as they want it - because without the PROMISE of a solution, they've got nothing to really point at.

And Pelosi & Co have been poster children for that. They come promising all sorts of wonders, get elected, and then forget about their promises completely.

Oh, wait - there's one I forgot. That's to raise taxes on the 'rich' - they'll ALWAYS try to keep that one! The problem with their plan is, however, a lot like Wiley Coyote's plans to catch the Roadrunner - there's always an unexpected consequence that's pretty painful. But they can't STOP TRYING, no matter how much it hurts!

Like this latest energy bill - rape the oil companies, take the money for some alternative energy programs that will, eventually, produce... what? That money will go into the Governmental Black Hole, to be doled out on pork projects. Eventually we'll adjust to $5, $6 a gallon gas, the projects will turn into lifetime employment for some properly connected PhDs, and nothing, NOTHING will change.

The Democrats aren't going to solve problems. They'll TELL you they will, and take your money... but that's pretty much it.

the Left seems to hate t... (Below threshold)
Dave:

the Left seems to hate the very idea of defending its positions with logic and evidence

there really should be rational, logical reasons for your positions. And frankly, the Left seems to hate the very idea of defending its positions with logic and evidence. Take Global Warming, for instance

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The concensus of the scientific comunity has long been that global warming is real. Sure there are a few scientists that have published articles in non-scientific magazines disputing global warming. But they get paid $10,000 by people with a financial interest at stake.

It is the republicans who are defying logic and evidence in this instance.

Dave -Anthropogeni... (Below threshold)

Dave -

Anthropogenic global warming's been going on for about 8000 years.

If it WEREN'T for that warming, we'd be in deep ice at this point, since we were on a cooling trend 8,000 years ago when agriculture was invented.

No agriculture, no civilization. No WWW, no computers, no roads, cars, or anything except a few bands of hunter/gatherer nomads with an average life span of 20-30 years.

And as far as money goes - you don't think it's the slightest bit odd that Al Gore founded a company that sells carbon credits? (Pardon, he's a 'partner'...) But isn't that great planning? Popularizing a problem that you just HAPPEN to have a snake oil solution for?

You touched on the key in t... (Below threshold)

You touched on the key in the first few sentences.

Emotion = Liberal
Logic = Conservative

You will never win an argument with a liberal with logic as it has no appeal to them. Likewise they cannot win an argument with a conservative with emotion (when it contradicts logic).

I didn't read half the comments preceding this one, but re-read them and test them against this equation...

Of course, if you're a libe... (Below threshold)

Of course, if you're a liberal reading my post above, all you saw was 'blah, blah, blah.'

Three Words: Chicago style ... (Below threshold)

Three Words: Chicago style Socialism.
That's why you should vote for Obama. Can't wait to get a Union job...where's Hoffa now?

mantis, 540 PM yesterday <i... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

mantis, 540 PM yesterday "I'll get to the rest later tonight." (regarding civil debate)

The audience will note that mantis never came back. Guess he was kind of short on 'civil debate', no surprise there.

DJ, a question. Is this the... (Below threshold)
Don:

DJ, a question. Is this the largest postings of comments on Wizbangblog?
As always I do enjoy reading your postings. The reaction to this one is quite impressive, it gives an old man hope for the USA for after the time that I'm gone.

To the person that has a problem with old people, I would suggest that if you are ever in NYC that we meet up. I have been giving the proper treatment to punks like you for over 70 years. You will know me when I walk into the room, I'm the guy that you don't want to fuck with.

Don #99 not the bolshevik #12 and 82

"Sure there are a few sc... (Below threshold)
914:

"Sure there are a few scientists that have published articles in non-scientific magazines disputing global warming. But they get6 paid $10,000 by people with a financial interest at stake."

You happen to have an investment in the biggest financial con game perpetrated on Mankind perhaps?

Right, you'll be the guy wi... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Right, you'll be the guy with no sense of humour and brass knuckles. We'll do lunch. I know a great tapas place around the corner from the Empire State Building, best sangria in town.

I don't have a problem with old people, Don. I think that if people feel like insinuating that Obama is a Muslim, as though it's relevant, that McCain's age is equally if not more relevant.

Hi DJ, welcome to your thre... (Below threshold)
max:

Hi DJ, welcome to your thread. Some fascinating insight there. For me, I'd like a president who thinks the deployment and redeployment of our military forces is "important." And also someone who thinks the economy is worth knowing something about.

And Don, lighten up, man. What good are old people if you can't make fun of them?

Convinced yet D.J.?<p... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Convinced yet D.J.?

Neither am I.

Max, I'd totally give you a... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Max, I'd totally give you a terrorist fist-bump if my arm was however many thousands of kilometers long it would have to be.

Yeah, I'm afraid we're back... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Yeah, I'm afraid we're back to square one, here. I'm not convinced, either.

Max, you couldn't be more vague. And unfortunately, your "kidding around" about old people being useless unless you can make fun of them is a sentiment which is all too true these days. Age and experience don't have the same respect they used to. Not even in China, where the elderly used to be revered.

Did I miss something? Did Obama actually slow the waters, feed people, and provide jobs, and make America great the moment he received the nomination? Damn youtube never captured it for my review. I'm still voting for McCain.

For whatever it's worth and... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

For whatever it's worth and for whoever is still reading this, I think the elephant in the room that the left doesn't want us to notice is that it is their prime position is that the Iraq conflict must be perceived by everyone as a total defeat for the United States just as Viet Nam is now commonly believed to have been.

It was on this sole issue that Obama was able to out-left Clinton and claim the nomination with the power and support of the far left. The DU-KOS crew knew that Obama was the best hope of the Islamofacist victory that they so desperately desire. ('Cause it's George Bush's war after all, and only his.) Hillary tried to go further left after Obama starting winning delegates, but it was too little too late.

So that's why, I think, our leftist friends haven't been able to come up with a "convincing" argument. They can't really come out and say the main reason they're voting for Obama as that argument only convinces themselves.

P. Bunyon,My main ... (Below threshold)
Dave:

P. Bunyon,

My main reasons for voting for Obama (actually I didn't vote in the primary because I live in Florida) are:

1. He was against the war from the beginning.
2. He emphasizes diplomacy. Please don't equate diplomacy with appeasement, there is a difference. The first Bush used diplomacy affectively in building a coalition against Iraq.
3. I never trusted Bill or Hillary.

I did mention in a previous post that I had stayed up late on couple nights wondering if McCain really can win the war. What give that some creedence to me is that McCain was critical of how the war was being waged when it was unpopular to do so.

I started thinking about that when Hillary said she would nuke Iran if they nuked Isreal. I thought that to be reckless since we could wipe them out with conventional weapons just as well. I also thought about how the nuclear fallout would affect coutries other than Iran.

P.S.I am not again... (Below threshold)
Dave:

P.S.

I am not against all wars. I have never been critical about going to war with Afghanistan.

JLawson,Anthrop... (Below threshold)
Dave:

JLawson,

Anthropogenic global warming's been going on for about 8000 years.

A natural form of global warming has been going on for far more than 8,000 years. Studies show there have been 5 major climate shifts in the past 450,000 years.

What has scientists worried is that the current rate the planet is heating up is a lot higher then studies indicate it has occured in the past. This is one of the reasons scientist beleive it to be related to carbon ommisions.

"scientist beleive"<... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"scientist beleive"

When you start talking about beliefs you have left the realm of science and entered the realm of religion. Just so you're aware of that fact.

And again Dave, I don't see... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

And again Dave, I don't see how you can say you want the US to win the war and then support Obama who has guaranteed that US will be unconditionally defeated.

It makes no sense to me.

P. Bunyan,Please a... (Below threshold)
Dave:

P. Bunyan,

Please argue something more sumstantiave then symantecs with me. The word believe refers to more than a belief in religion. I used the word believe because unless someone invents a time machine it can't be a proven fact.


And again Dave, I don't see how you can say you want the US to win the war and then support Obama who has guaranteed that US will be unconditionally defeated.

It makes no sense to me.

The reason it does not make sense to you is because we both have a difference perpsective on whether the war can be won. I do not think it can but am still holding off final judgement until McCain talks more about it, which I am sure he will do in the debates.

Getting out of the war without causing a total castrophy is a lot more difficult then getting into it. There is the potential the war could spill over into other countries. The best chance of this not happening will require some level of assistance from other nations. I feel Obama has the best chance of forming such a coalition.

I expect you disagree with everything I said, which is your right to. Now maybe my position will make sense to you even though you beleive(no pun intended) differently.

I pray we never get to witn... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

I pray we never get to witness the ramifications of Obama leading the terrorists to victory in Iraq.




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