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John McCain, Hero

Cassy's piece got me going on the topic.

Many on the Left have been attacking John McCain viciously. Not his Senate record or positions on the major issues so much, as they have been attacking him for his service in Vietnam. Given Barack Obama's lack of significant accomplishment in anything other than selling books and making speeches, it is hardly surprising that he and his followers would regard McCain's most distinctive service as a threat to Obama's ambition. It is also apparent that most Obama supporters have no real idea of what McCain did as a Navy officer that sets him apart from so many of his fellow veterans. I have written before that I disagree with a number of McCain's political positions, and I dislike the way he has treated fellow Republicans, especially President Bush. None of that, however, diminishes what John McCain accomplished as a prisoner of war in Vietnam.

On October 26, 1967, Lieutenant Commander John McCain was shot down during his twenty-third mission in an A-4 Skyhawk bomber over Hanoi. Commander McCain was on that mission as part of his long service to the United States; he graduated from the US Naval Academy at Annapolis in 1958, and remained on active duty despite having his plane literally shot out from under him in an accidental missile discharge from another plane on the deck of the USS Forrestal earlier that year.

The destruction of his jet caused McCain serious injuries. He broke bones in both arms, one leg, and landed in a lake. Once he reached shore, the already injured McCain was attacked and beaten by North Vietnamese soldiers, one using a rifle butt to dislocate hs shoulder while another bayonetted him. He was denied medical treatment for four days, during which time he was beaten and interrogated using real torture methods, not the stuff liberals like to call 'torture' now. McCain refused to give information beyond his name, rank, and serial number. It was only when the North Vietnamese realized that McCain's father was a senior Admiral that he received medical treatment, and it was not much even there. No anesthesia or antibiotics were used, and the bones were not even set for another half-week.

Up to this point, John McCain's story is that of an honorable man who suffered from conditions of war and cruel abuse. What follows is where we see his heroism.

- continued -

The North Vietnamese understood that Commander McCain's father was Admiral McCain, and from the beginning tried to use this for propaganda purposes. While men like John Kerry played the system in order to go home early from the war, Commander McCain repeatedly refused special treatment and offers to be set free ahead of men he knew had been longer in captivity. He also refused attempts by the North Vietnamese to use him in propaganda films, and for this was designated for "special treatment", a regimen of regular torture and deprivation that killed most men who suffered it. In the first six weeks of his imprisonment, McCain lost 50 pounds and temporarily the use of his arms and legs; when he was finally allowed to share a cell with two other officers, his condition was so grave that they did not expect him to survive for more than a week. His fellow officers nursed McCain to somewhat better health, and for this were assigned to different quarters. McCain again refused to cooperate with the North Vietnamese and he was locked in a muddy room with no windows, a tin roof and only two holes drilled in to keep him from suffocating, and McCain was kept there for two years.

Unknown to the Communists, McCain had already started his work from the inside. He had memorized the names of all 335 men he knew to be prisoners in North Vietnam, and when Major Norris Overly, USAF, was released he carried McCain's information with him. Even in prison, John McCain continued to serve his country.

In mid-1968, the North Vietnamese decided that if they released McCain, it would not only show them as merciful but suggest that American 'elites' expected to be treated better than ordinary soldiers. But Commander McCain consistently refused to play along, refusing to be released unless every man who had served as long as him was also released, and refusing on all occasions to say a single bad thing about the United States or the war effort. Despite his solitary confinement, McCain used a tap code to make contact with Ernie Brace, a civilian pilot shot down over Laos. Brace had been badly abused by the Communists and was in bad shape emotionally. McCain worked to restore Brace's spirit and confidence, and in so doing bolstered his own.

In June of 1968, the Communists again tried to talk McCain into accepting special treatment, and in return McCain said he'd be glad to go - after all the men he knew had been waiting longer. They tried again in July, after Mccain's father became CINCPAC. McCain again refused, for which he was beaten, his ribs cracked and one of his arms rebroken, and after which he was left bound between beating sessions for another four days. To shame him, the Communists left McCain naked and unfed.

McCain knew what could happen in the prisons, like Dick Stratton's being burned with cigarettes and his fingernails pulled. He knew men who had been beaten to death, like Ed Atterberry. Punishment in a Communist prison was brutal and swift, yet even so McCain continued to resist his captors, tapping out communication and encouragement to other prisoners, as a true officer leads his men. Commander McCain was beaten for refusing to lie about conditions in the prison, for resisting the Communists' propaganda programs, for communicating with other prisoners, and often for no reason other than he was a man they could not defeat, could never own. McCain refused to meet with antiwar delegations, refused to cooperate with nations like France who supported the Communists, and always - always - refused to accept anything that was not provided for all his fellow prisoners. McCain was tortured for holding church services, for praying, for singing the National Anthem, for refusing to admit "war crimes", and for cheering when Nixon ordered the bombing of Hanoi. McCain was no Superman, he felt every burn and cut and bruise and scrape of bone and tearing of ligament. Yet over and over and over again, he chose to accept torture rather than put himself ahead of his fellow prisoners, or his country.

On March 14, 1973, John McCain was finally released by North Vietnam, as one of the final prisoners to return home. He faced months of surgery and physical therapy to rebuild his body, but his spirit was unbroken and his mission fulflled. Whatever one thinks of John McCain's politics, he was and is a hero, and anyone who cannot admit that is a poor shell of a human being, too dismal to count as a true person, let alone an American.

Sources: Wikipedia, "John McCain: An American Odyssey" by Robert Timburg, US News & World Report (May 14 1973 issue)


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Comments (59)

It's McCain's proven leader... (Below threshold)

It's McCain's proven leadership qualities that contrast so strongly with Obama's lack of them.

What has Obama ever led?

"Whatever one thinks of Joh... (Below threshold)
max:

"Whatever one thinks of John McCain's politics, he was and is a hero, and anyone who cannot admit that is a poor shell of a human being, too dismal to count as a true person, let alone an American."

Agreed. I would take that one step further and say that anyone who is willing, for political purposes, to denigrate the service of any soldier in any war, unless they were there, is a poor excuse for a human being. Including you, DJ, for being willing to repeatedly slander John Kerry. You are a hypocritical, petulant little child and are not to be taken seriously.

The attacks on John McCain ... (Below threshold)
freerepublicposter:

The attacks on John McCain did not, do not, does not come from the left. These attacks were put on the internet FROM THE RIGHT when McCain went up against Party favored George W Bush. Own up to your own slander.

No slander at all, max. Ke... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

No slander at all, max. Kerry played the system to get out of Vietnam ASAP. John stayed until the job was done.

You seem to think that everyone in uniform is exactly the same as every one else. That is how the Left sees troops, never as individuals.

The slander is all on the Left.

As usual.

You lying capitalist runnin... (Below threshold)
The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness:

You lying capitalist running-dog; the peace-loving peoples of Vietnam never maltreated any of the war-criminal baby-killers who were captured red-handed in the depths of their vile depravity. They were all treated with the same respect and dignity the loving Party showed to all of its citizens*. These stories of abuse are nothing but slanderous lies; Jane Fonda says so.
[/Lefty Response]

*Sadly, this may be the only true thing in this little pro-democrat oooooooops I mean pro-communist screed. POW's were treated in many respects EXACTLY like the citizens of North Vietnam. If not better. A truth our modern fifth columnists have almost completely buried.

frp, are you really so stup... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

frp, are you really so stupid that you have not noticed the smear attacks are happening this year against McCain? Or are you so BDS that even now, you have to "Blame Bush First" for everything?

This is one of those "some ... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

This is one of those "some people say" stories. "Many on the left"? Odd you did not name one.

"John stayed until the job was done."? Exactly what "job" was "done".

McCain Supporters:Do... (Below threshold)
Kirk Muse:

McCain Supporters:
Don't Google: "The wife U S Republican John McCain callously left behind."

WC, reading comprehension i... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

WC, reading comprehension is a problem for you? Missed the HuffPo piece Cassy wrote. Or ducked it, huh?

DJI just read it. ... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

DJ

I just read it. I tend to read what posters write and not follow links. That could keep you reading for a long time.

And back to my point...one person = many on the left? Also, I am not sure where you are looking up words but you might want to reread the definition for vicious. I think you were looking for a word more like offensive (to you).

Also, job...done?

WC, your attempts at naive ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

WC, your attempts at naive innocence have failed.

Your attempt to change the subject also blew out.

Like your idol, you appear to have trouble dealing with substantive issues.

You Know this is really fun... (Below threshold)
funny:

You Know this is really funny it kind of reminds me of the time the right wing smeared a highly decorated war hero and elected a fratboy who whent to the national guard because \"It was there or canada.\" Gotta love it.

Gee funny, you also seem to... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Gee funny, you also seem to have trouble dealing with the facts of Mr. McCain's heroism.

Makes it hard to face up to your limitations, I guess.

ONE NAME: TED SAMPLEY Look... (Below threshold)
freerepublicposter:

ONE NAME: TED SAMPLEY Look it up and look up his war against John McCain and the right wing embrace of his slander. Ted is not a Democrat.

Kerry is a war hero to the ... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

Kerry is a war hero to the left ...

And they claim to be the reality based party ...

And Obama didn't know what was going on at Trinity for 20 years ...

You guys are really stupid aren't you ?

DjI am not trying ... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

Dj

I am not trying to be naive. I am trying to figure out where your "many people on the left"...wait I guess three or more are many.

I do not think I have told you who my hero/idol is. I guess you are refering to Obama. No politician would ever rank high enough in my mind to be considered an idol to me. Projection is a issue with partisains like yourself. You think if someone disagrees with you they MUST belong to the OTHER party. Thereby making the world a nice and neat black and white.

Sorry about what you called changing the subject. I was referring, as you know, to your comment about the Vietnam War.

While they were still poste... (Below threshold)
Mycroft:

While they were still posted on his own website, I looked at what military records John Kerry posted on his own service.

If one knows how to read the stuff that was posted the following facts could be gleaned:

1. All of the ratings on John Kerry's serice as an officer were not very good, by the standards of the time. He was never recommended for promotion!

2. John Kerry would have come up in the reserves for the rank of LT in 1975 for the third time, based upon when he was made a LT JG. (Note that the order returning him to LT JG from temp LT was in the documents on his site). Based upon the rules in place at the time - In 1975, John Kerry should have been promoted to LT or kicked out of the NAVY ("Up or OUT"). He COULD NOT have been discharged as a LT JG in 1978, like his website says he was. And finally, his 1978 discharge was done by the wrong agency, and is in line with being a discharge upgrade as a pardon.

Thus, at best we have a poor officer, and more likely, we have someone who was only legally able to run for office after getting a presidential pardon.

The subject, WC, is noted i... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

The subject, WC, is noted in the title.

If you got lost in the first three words, you are beyond all hope.

Dj,John McCain's H... (Below threshold)
WorldCitizen:

Dj,

John McCain's Heroism? According to your story he committed one act of bravery/self-sacrifice. I certainly give him credit for staying.

How does this qualify him to be president?

And you DJ, if you can't answer a comment make it so people can't post them. My first point...you take one HP posting and make sweeping generalizations with no support.

Many on the right are attacking Bozo the clown viciously. It is true...trust me it is many, more than one, a few, the whole country.

WC, you credit the man with... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

WC, you credit the man with ONE act in over five YEARS of resistance?

You are beyond belief, and as I said people like you impossible to reach with reason or logic. You are so mired in hatred against the man, that you cannot bring yourself to admit the undeniable heroism of his service.

What a pathetically bitter person you are!

John McCain was rescued fro... (Below threshold)
Danny Bell:

John McCain was rescued from the Hanoi Hilton in 1973 by troops who have not received any credit. Granted, he suffered at the hands of the Vietcong as did so many other men who upon returning home, received neither help nor hope. He was not a leader and graduated 3rd from the bottom of his class. These chapters occurred 35+ years ago and while his torture was horrid, his military experience in jungle warfare and as a POW is not pertinent to today. Normal people don't need to have personal experience in order for their intellect and imagination to sort data, formulate thought and develop character. It is the worst way to learn. I have a problem with the man's character and his reliance on his so-called "war hero" status. We need to be objective and honest in this election process. We need to abandon racism, selfishness and whatever else ails us. If you only look at what happened to his first wife, women will necessarily come to a severely negative conclusion.

Posted by Danny

McCain and the other 'guest... (Below threshold)
The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness:

McCain and the other 'guests' at the Hanoi Hilton were not liberated by troops, but by diplomats in Paris. You may want to learn some history before you start lecturing about it.

I also like the little dig that 'we must abandon racism.' I don't oppose Obama because he's half white. I oppose him because he's an empty suit who hangs out with burned out communist terrorists and racial-demogogue preachers. His policies (for lack of a better term) are naive in the extreme, his record is nearly perfectly blank. Maybe you need to get over your irrational hatred for the Irish?

Ok, we've established that ... (Below threshold)
max:

Ok, we've established that you are, in your own words, "a poor shell of a human being, too dismal to count as a true person, let alone an American." And, for arguments sake, lets assume that McCain is a "war hero", whatever that means. The next logical question is, so what? What does that have to do with being president?

"And, for arguments sake, l... (Below threshold)
Mycroft:

"And, for arguments sake, lets assume that McCain is a "war hero", whatever that means. The next logical question is, so what? What does that have to do with being president?"

Acually, quite a bit. For McCain demonstrated, at pain to himself, service to the country above himself. Those that have done so understand.

Mycroft
Disabled American Veteran, United States Navy

Right Danny. The only thin... (Below threshold)
Mike:

Right Danny. The only think any Vietnam vet learned was jungle warfare. They don't absorb lessons like character duty and honor. Especially at the Service Academies. The military never teaches things like leadership and decision making, just how to kill.

Idiot. Oh, and screw Kerry. War hero my ass. I ain't one either but I'll stack my Purple Heart up against his any day. And I'll give him that one of them might be legitimate. Maybe.

"Many on the Left ha... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"Many on the Left have been attacking John McCain viciously. Not his Senate record or positions on the major issues so much, as they have been attacking him for his service in Vietnam. -- D.J. Drummond.

Hmm. What constitutes "many" in the mind of Mr. Drummond? Presumably, more than a "few" or even a "dozen." For the sake of argument, let's say thirteen. Can you cite thirteen people, D.J., who have "viciously attacked" McCain over the issue you described?

You can start with the author of the post Cassy mentions. Twelve more to go. Can you come up with twelve more, DJ??? Come on, I dare you.

ONE NAME: TED SA... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
ONE NAME: TED SAMPLEY Look it up and look up his war against John McCain and the right wing embrace of his slander. Ted is not a Democrat

Ted Sampley smeared Bush Sr. with this piece:

George Bush Parachutes Again to Exorcise Demons of Past Betrayal

I learned about that article many moons back when it was first making the rounds as "spam" on the AOL boards posted by all the lefties.

Seems Ted Sampley went after Kerry in 2004 with the founding of "Veterans Against Kerry" and Kerry tried for a day to run a campaign ad where he questions Bush about denouncing it. The problem was the ad didn't show Bush's response where he said the same man smeared "his" father too. Obviously Kerry had some denouncing to do himself seeing Ted Sampley is willing to put the screws to anyone including the Bush family.

And to quote another great ... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

And to quote another great American hero, Richard Bruce Cheney (he actually gave up a lucrative private sector job in order to return to public service),

"So?"

McCain = HeroSure ... (Below threshold)
tyree:

McCain = Hero

Sure brings out the hate from the left.

Better to have the right enemies than the wrong friends.

Hello, Herman. Still ducki... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Hello, Herman. Still ducking the facts so you can throw slime, I see. Well, just off my head, looking through the HuffPo piece you like so much, from the comments alone we find that:

2. Iratior thinks that John McCain's agenda is "the abolition of constitutional rights, religious freedom, and social safety nets in domestic affairs and limitless bellicosity in international ones". I'd call that a vicious attack.

3. Sciguy applauded the "mooch" piece.

4. All comments as well as the article passed review by Arianna Huffington, so she's on the list.

5. Keith Olbermann certainly cannot resist the urge to lie about McCain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6kZF8qEQSI

6-100. MoveOn.org cannot manage to discuss McCain's service with out lies and spite;
http://www.nelsonguirado.com/index.php/asymmetric/2008/05/01/moveon-attack-ad-lies-about-mccain

101-200. Do we even need to mention DU?
http://www.democraticunderground.com

And this ignores the way that Obama has lied about McCain's statements and positions, but he has declared himself untouchable by mere mortals, so we shall have to be satisfied with the mortal slime and leave off the self-divined Barackista for now.

One big difference between ... (Below threshold)
Clay:

One big difference between John Forbes Kerry and John McCain? Form 180.

You know Kerry's hiding. You know it.

No slander at all, max. ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

No slander at all, max. Kerry played the system to get out of Vietnam ASAP.

Kerry volunteered to go to Vietnam. Bush, National Guard. Cheney, five deferments. Who played the system?

Bush, National Guard. Ch... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Bush, National Guard. Cheney, five deferments.

Damn, but you are ate up. Hang on for a few months and you'll have your life back. Really.

Very nice article. Well wri... (Below threshold)

Very nice article. Well written, detailed, accurate, and positive. More like this please.

Now all of a sudden the lef... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Now all of a sudden the left doesn't think a president should have military experience to oversee wars. Pathetic but predictable.

The left hates the military. Always has and always will, so they deminish McCains heroism in a trite way. All the lefty posters would have cried and left the prison camp as soon as the offer came. Pathetic and predictable.

John Kerry served 3 months in vietnam, put in himself for the third purple heart and applied for three hearts and your out. Pathetic and predictable.

The left has no core belief. They have no committment to anything or anyone. The right has been guaranteeing their rights by the heroic sacrifice they make in the military, and the left childishly puts them down as unintelligient and could not make it in the real world. Pathetic and predictable. ww

Danny wrote:"We need... (Below threshold)
Dan Irving:

Danny wrote:
"We need to be objective and honest in this election process."

I agree.

McCain - looked into the face of evil, as DJ so eloquently outlined above, and rejected it.

Obama - looked into the faceofevil and embraced it.

I don't like a lot of McCain's agenda. It doesn't matter. We are a nation at war. On one hand we have a man that has experienced war and all it's evils. On the other we have a man that has neither experienced war and is willing to talk to those that wish ill upon us.

Dan, your short comparison ... (Below threshold)
epador:

Dan, your short comparison is long in the telling. Thanks.

WildWillie,I have ... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

WildWillie,

I have to disagree with you on one point.

You said, "The left has no core belief."

That is simply wrong!

The left believes:

-They are good, everyone else is bad. Especially repulicans and conservatives.
-America is bad and must be punished/diminished.
-Communism/Socialism/Collectivism is good, Capitalism is bad.
-They know whats best for you, and don't you talk back to them you hateful, racist, homophobic, sexist, neanderthal!
-They belive in tolerance...unless you disagree with them.
-Their ends justifies ANY means, YOUR ends are never justified by any means.

There. See. Core beliefs.

You lefty creep's out there... (Below threshold)
914:

You lefty creep's out there who were pushing Kerry as a war hero are suddenly trying to "swiftboat" John McCain because He actually is one.

Truly pathetic. Bringing up Bush and Cheney as if that's a bad thing. They won back to back election's.. Something the illiterate Soros controlled sockpuppet Hussein will not achieve.

914, I like how you capital... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

914, I like how you capitalized the word "He" when referring to McCain. I thought it was the Democrat jihadists who were guilty of deifying their chosen one?

You people are hilarious!

HyperBoliSt,You ar... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

HyperBoliSt,

You are quite the expert at seeing things that aren't there, aren't you?

DJ, maybe you missed my las... (Below threshold)
max:

DJ, maybe you missed my last question so I'll repeat it. So what?

Sheik, are blind or stupid?

min,No, dipshit I'... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

min,

No, dipshit I'm not.

But I'll bet a quarter you are. So, I'll help you out.

HyperBS accused 914 of deifying McCain. I called BS on his BS by saying he was seing something what wasn't there.

If that's not clear enough for you, go have your mom explain it to you.

DJ, like most Americans I d... (Below threshold)

DJ, like most Americans I deeply appreciate the heroism of John McCain as well. Senator Obama has voiced respect for this aspect of John McCain's life as well. I personally have not seen any attacks on John McCain's heroism during Vietnam ever made an issue by anyone associated with Senator Obama myself.

The problem is where America is headed at this time. Over 80% of Americans believe that the nation is headed on the wrong track. And to many Americans, John McCain's politics seem to indicate policies much the same as we have had for the last eight years that have left America on a path that this 80% plus majority believes is the wrong path.

Senator McCain's background was as a graduate of a naval academy, and his heroic story of service in Vietnam helped to propel him into a long career in public office. Senator Obama's background is far different. He has no military service, but has a long academic achievement career in law and teaching constitutional law as a professor. This certainly qualifies him as expert in understanding government as well as appointing qualified judges as well. In addition Senator Obama has proven great ability at delegating responsibility to others who are qualified as he managed to topple the well organized Clinton political machine. All of this proves that Senator Obama has the intelligence, leadership and ability to delegate responsibility to achieve results. This should translate to the White House as well if he is elected.

2008 will stand as a watershed election for the public to decide whether they wish the nation to continue roughly on the same path as now, or want change. Voters see oil prices up 40% since January, massive inflation in food prices, home foreclosures, and a whole host of domestic problems that don't seem to be currently well addressed by Washington.

My best guess is that in the end most Americans will continue to agree that John McCain has a heroic story 41 years ago during 1967 Vietnam, however most voters are much more concerned about the current 2008 conditions surrounding themselves that makes it hard to afford gas, home heating oil, food, or losing their home to foreclosure. This favors Senator Obama and what solutions his experts can bring to the table.

And even worse news for John McCain is that many on Wall Street are beginning to back Senator Obama, as Ann Coulter lamented in a HUMAN EVENTS feature yesterday, as some view McCain as somewhat eratic and unpredictable and McCain as potentially bad for their business. Even among military contractors, John McCain came in a weak third in political donations between Clinton and Obama during the primary season because he was seen as unpredictable element, despite any of his claims about being an expert on military affairs. McCain will likely enter the presidential race with a huge donation disadvantage because he may be viewed as a longtime Washington insider, but he is not entirely trusted by many donors for various reasons. It was only little more than one year ago that conservative blogs such as Polipundit probably ran more antiMcCain pieces than on anyone else in Washington. Many longtime Republican donors may reluctantly vote for McCain in November, but they are not giving him any money. And Senator Obama's campaign is directly challenging McCain in red states such as Colorado and elsewhere where McCain could be vulnerable, and lacks money to hold onto all the base states that Bush carried in 2000 and 2008. Even Rasmussen polling gives Obama better than 60% odds of a November victory.

John McCain may have a great and heroic story during Vietnam in 1967. But in 2008 he's viewed as wrong on the issues by many voters and his campaign is cash strapped and needs better leadership and direction. If McCain cannot effectively manage a national campaign, then the question is how can he lead the nation? More than not, all of this strongly suggests that McCain will lose the election. Heroic military service in 1967 won't help as much as being viewed by voters in 2008 as being better on the issues, and running a better managed and financed campaign. The presidency isn't so much some sort of a lifetime achievement award as it is electing someone who can effectively the current here and now problems well.

Manchurian Candidate Reveal... (Below threshold)

Manchurian Candidate Revealed! [remaining bilge redacted]

[ Stephen, there are 3 reasons why the rest of your comment got snipped:don't long annoying screeds on someone else's article, don't try to use comments to advertsie your own site, and don't go so far off topic that GPS couldn't get you back home - DJD]


McCain might not be the bes... (Below threshold)
mag:

McCain might not be the best man for President I will grant you that, but I can not think of anyone worst for the job than Obama. What an empty suit, so he talks good when he has a script...that's it...plus look at the company he keeps...doesn't that upset anyone??? Obama will not be my president....

Paul,I always find... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Paul,

I always find it amusing when a liberal quotes some statistic or other purporting to show that X% of Americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction.

I'm not doubting the statistic itself, but what I've never (and I mean NEVER) seen is any question or statistic addressing the next logical point. If the country is going in the 'wrong' direction, the what exactly is the right direction? That never gets addressed by the liberals using this statistic. I have a guess as to why. I believe it is because you ASSUME that all those people who think the country is going in the 'wrong' direction must think it should go in the same direction you do. Otherwise that statistic isn't worth the pixels its printed on.

To make sure my point is clear, I ALSO think the country is going in the wrong direction. However, I am fairly certain that my idea of the 'right' direction is about 180 degrees off of what your idea of the 'right' direction is. I don't think we are doing ENOUGH about border security. I don't think we have prosecuted the war in Iraq agresivily enough. I think we should worry much less about that rights of detained terrorist that we currently do. I think we should be aggressively exploiting ANWR, OCS, and oil shale. I think taxes (AND SPENDING) should be much, much lower than they currently are.

Yeah, sure, we are going in the wrong direction, but the direction the liberals want to go in would be EVEN MORE OF A WRONG DIRECTION.

So, please, let that 'wrong direction' statistic die a most deserved death.

Sheik, you have also to rec... (Below threshold)

Sheik, you have also to recognize that those that believe the country is "headed in a wrong direction" voters includes both progressives concerned with drastic policy change, moderates unhappy with high gas prices, etc. and social conservatives unhappy with Gay marriage in California, etc. Not all of these voters will fall into any one camp, but in 2006, enough did act as enough of a wave to sweep many Democrats into office. All signs are that this trend may well serve to act for change at the White House level as well this year. The best thing the Bush White House could really do to help John McCain is reduce the number of voters who believe that things are headed in a wrong direction. In 1988, enough voters still had posituve enough of feelings about Ronald Reagan record to propel the first Bush to a 54-46% win. But the coattails look a lot shorter so far this year to pull up McCain.

Sheik, you're not what? Bli... (Below threshold)
max:

Sheik, you're not what? Blind or stupid? Do you know the difference between a capital H and a lower case h? Do you understand that a capitalized "He" is commonly used to denote a diety?
Now, I'm pretty sure 914 didn't do that on purpose, and I'm pretty sure HB knew that. He was just making fun. But getting all riled up about it just makes you look like the child you are. It's pretty funny to me, though, so keep it up.

Paul,I do recogniz... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Paul,

I do recognize that, but you appear to have missed my point.

Your 80% statistic includes both liberals and conservatives who both believe we are going in the 'wrong' direction. However, they would vehemently disagree over what the 'right' direction is, and that is what makes that statistic completely meaningless.

-syb

So Obama is taking politica... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

So Obama is taking political contributions from defense contractors? I thought he didn't take money from special interests?

Paul, you could not be more wrong. McCain has disagreed with GW on so many issues over the past eight years to even suggest it will be the same old same old is very disengenuous for you. The left would lie, but you have at least a little civil credibility with me. Obama has NOTHING. Nothing is he bringing to the table. His judgement in past things is very telling. Racist Pastor and good friend, terrorist supporter, shady convicted land swindler and friend, no real legislative authorship, nothing. I do believe the left believes in nothing, but this is going a little to far don't you think? ww

min,Umm, alrighty ... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

min,

Umm, alrighty then.

So, you now claim to recognize that HyperBS was 'just making fun'. Yet, you completely FAIL to see that I was making fun of HyperBS? You FAIL to note that in my initial response to 'hyperbolist', I deliberately capitalized the H, B, and S in his pseudonym. THerefore, it sHould Have been obvious tHat I migHt know the difference between a captial H and a lower case h. Unless, of course, max, you are blind or stupid...or both.

Then, you think I'm the one riled up? After the comments you've made directed at DJ? I'm the one riled up? You are a hoot.

It is very apparent you didn't ask your mom to explain to you what I said before. You might want to also ask her to look up 'sarcasm' and 'subtlety' for you in the dictionary.

Wildwillie, all the major c... (Below threshold)

Wildwillie, all the major candidates have received donations from individuals related to the defense industry, as well as banking, lawyers, etc. No candidate is above this fray as much as they would like you to believe.

"John McCain, Hero"-DJD... (Below threshold)
bryanD:

"John McCain, Hero"-DJD

The only heroes are dead.

As for McCain: after single-handedly having ALL POW/MIA records classified in 1993, he attempted to have certain MIA families prosecuted for fraud for insisting that the Nixon Administration wrote off certain POWs and MIAs as political liabilities viz. Nixon's failure to pay certain reparations to end the war, the POWs being hostages pending payment.

Fortunately, the old Soviet GRU files were opened to show that the POW-MIA families were correct and McCain was covering for his own extracurricular activities outside the walls of the prison camp, including interviews, tours, broadcasts and alleged R&R. In short, McCain was being groomed. All injuries were incurred in his shoot-down, not torture. He was housed with deserters and defectors. Thus, the files had to be kept classified. As a senator, his one vote was enough.

McCain subsequently guided through commercial treaties and formal recognition of DRVN.

As for early release: McCain couldn't accept early release and then win a Senate seat.

Note: McCain's next duty station in the Navy after release was...Capitol Hill. He was in the Senate before he was even a senator. Due to embedded fellow traitors in government, I'm sure. The guy's a piece of work. Le Nes Plus Ultra in blackmail material in human form. See: Mexico, China, Israel, and whoever else threatens to harsh his well-polished reputation unless he "mavericks" their way.

DJ, could you please first ... (Below threshold)
Herman:

DJ, could you please first read what you wrote:

"Many on the Left have been attacking John McCain viciously. Not his Senate record or positions on the major issues so much, as they have been attacking him for his service in Vietnam."

And then your response to me:

"2. Iratior thinks that John McCain's agenda is "the abolition of constitutional rights, religious freedom, and social safety nets in domestic affairs and limitless bellicosity in international ones". I'd call that a vicious attack." --> Has nothing to do with McCain's service in Vietnam

" Sciguy applauded the "mooch" piece."

" All comments as well as the article passed review by Arianna Huffington, so she's on the list." --> Well, I'll give you sciguy, but not Arianna, for would you agree that the dude controlling wizbang agrees with every single post that gets published?

None of your examples below have anything to do with McCain's service in Vietnam:

"5. Keith Olbermann certainly cannot resist the urge to lie about McCain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6kZF8qEQSI" --> Just a video of Republicans discussing Iraq, not Vietnam, with Keith providing commentary

"6-100. MoveOn.org cannot manage to discuss McCain's service with out lies and spite;"
http://www.nelsonguirado.com/index.php/asymmetric/2008/05/01/moveon-attack-ad-lies-about-mccain

--> A political commercial dealing with Iraq.

"101-200. Do we even need to mention DU?
http://www.democraticunderground.com" --> Who specifically at DU attacks McCain's Vietnam experience? Anyone at all?

You still have much work to do, DJ. At least ten more people to name. Or were you just fighting phantom dragons when you decided to use that word, "many"?

Paul, I know none are above... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Paul, I know none are above the fray, but Obama says very convincingly he does not take money from lobbyists etc. Another Clintonian liar coming to the forefront. I halfheartedly want this inexperienced racist to win. ww

Bryan D. said, "The only he... (Below threshold)
tyree:

Bryan D. said, "The only heroes are dead"

Not true. Bryan, not true.
Some people think Jack Kervorkian is a hero, and they treat him as such. Some people think Lynee Stewart and Cindy Sheehan are heroes and treat them as such. Some people think Bill Ayers is a hero and treat him as such.

McCain was an inspiration to many American servicemen during their imprisonment by the communists in North Vietnam. That qualifies him as a hero to millions of Americans. You may not agree, but thats too bad, no one died and made you king.

To the left, a hero is the ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

To the left, a hero is the person that can do substantial damage to our country and the traditional values it embraces. ww

If you say so, shake, I gue... (Below threshold)
max:

If you say so, shake, I guess I'll take your word for it that you were trying to be funny. If that's the case, it just wasn't funny. But then again, republicans have never been known for being particularly humorous. Good luck with that. And you can still bite me.




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