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Obama is A Liar and a Fraud

March 1, 2007 - In response to an FEC ruling regarding contributions to a presdiential campaign, the Obama campaign said the following:
"Sen. Obama is pleased the FEC took this important step in preserving the public financing system. If Sen. Obama is the nominee, he will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."


April 27, 2008 - Barack Obama promises "I would be very interested in pursuing public financing, because I think not every candidate is going to be able to do what I've done in this campaign, and I think it's important to think about future campaigns."


June 19, 2008 - the Mercury News reports "Sen. Barack Obama has become the first candidate in a general presidential election to reject public campaign financing, despite an earlier pledge to accept the limits and benefits of the system."


There's no way around it; Obama is a liar and a fraud.


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Comments (63)

What makes this news is tha... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

What makes this news is that this is news to lots of people.

I had originally consider... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:

I had originally considered Obama an empty suit. After watching him up to this point, I must retract that opinion. This man is a clear and present DANGER to our country.
It would be interesting to find who's pulling his strings. Be unsurprising to find Soros behind his campaign, perhaps it's seen as an appropriate time to openly advance the socialist agenda, and Obama seems to have considerable charisma, if you don't analyze what he says with a dispassionate eye.
This bears repeating, of the 2 candidates, McCain will get my vote, simply because his presidency will do the least amount of lasting damage to my country.

The alternative is too horrifying to contemplate.

The reason for the change ?... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

The reason for the change ? Well, easy, he didn't know that he'd be able to raise so much money.

Before, he thought that McCain would be able to out do him on fund raising so.. in that case, the caps imposed when one accepts public funds are a 'good thing'. The caps, he believed, would work in his favor.

Now, that he believe he can raise more money than McCain, caps are 'bad thing'. The caps, he now believes, would hinder him.

Obama's path to his Senate seat was based on playing the technicalities of the election system well. This is his SOP.

It's like the way Bu... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:


It's like the way Bugs Bunny always outmaneuvers Elmer Fudd.

Anyone who lies to you will... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Anyone who lies to you will steal from you. Look for the most corrupt administration in history if Hussein is elected. Self enrichment is corruption and that's what the Hussein O's are interested in. We already know he isn't as smart and they try to make us think, actually a bumbling fool when speaking other than someone else's words, so those pulling the strings (mostly criminals from the last criminal administration) are looking for more easy riches. I guess the money allocated to the extra seven states will be easy picking's.

btw Adrian, Bugs didn't alw... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

btw Adrian, Bugs didn't always win. I recall one episode where Fudd tricked Bugs into switching identities with him. Bugs got hauled away by a couple federal agents and Fudd, munching on a carrot says, "I may be cwazy, but I'm not goin' to Alkatwazzz".

Obama is expecting to have ... (Below threshold)

Obama is expecting to have to fight off a number of outrageous and unfair 527 attacks and will need a big war chest for that effort. One 527, ExposeObama is raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for a TV ad to suggest that Obama was once a Muslim during his grade school days, even though the truth is that the grade school in Indonesia made a clerical error. Obama was always a Christian, however about the only schools available at the time in Indonesia were run by Muslims because it's a Muslim nation so little choice really existed where to go to school. The outrageous ad even features Obama in the African tribal dress he put on for a visit to Africa, which is African, not Muslim, but the ignorant jokers that put this TV ad together can't tell the difference, or else hope that some voters can't either. John McCain won't have to face the same sort of outrageous 527 attacks, although MoveOn.org will certainly air some antiwar ads attacking McCain.

Obama managed to raise nearly $266 million during just the primary season, and this should be more than enough to help to counter the official McCain efforts as well as an army of outrageous independent 527's who will use absurd smear attacks to attempt to scare voters about Obama.

Obama would probably accept public funding if campaign financing laws regulated the 527's. But they are not regulated and can spend unlimited amounts of money to smear and destroy the character of Obama, and his campaign wisely will raise as much money as possible to seek to counter this.

Obama probably needs far more money to keep the playing field level because of the big number of outrageous 527 ads, groups and Spam Email mailing efforts designed to destroy his character. 527's often don't debate real issues, just trade in character attacks.

Right, cause John McCain wo... (Below threshold)
brainy435:

Right, cause John McCain won't have to worry about 527's at all.

Obama outright lied to the nation and now expects his supporters to suck it up and keep supporting him anyway. Hooson shows why he thinks he can get away with such rank hypocrisy.

I'll give Obama this, though: He really is the politician of change. Every time he opens his fool mouth, his positions have changed.

mccain won't have to face o... (Below threshold)
ke_future:

mccain won't have to face outrageous attacks? what are you smoking, and how much does it cost? he's already getting hit by them. you know, that moveon.org 100year war ad with the mother and her kid?

the "independent" organizations on the left are for more destructive than on the right. and with soros bankrolling them, THE LEFT is the ones with more money.

i'll agree with your description of 527's in general.

I see why you are upset. Ad... (Below threshold)
jp2:

I see why you are upset. Add about 300 million to his chest.

Bottom line Paul, is that t... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Bottom line Paul, is that the Hope & Change Boy is just another liar.


Just curious, Paul. How do... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Just curious, Paul. How does someone 'destroy the character' of a man who has never shown any?

I still haven't seen the qu... (Below threshold)
max:

I still haven't seen the quote where he says unequivically, "I will use public financing."
And I'll be waiting for your post excoriating John McCain for actually breaking the campaign finance laws he helped put in place. That is truly the height of hypocrisy and I'm sure the "R" behind his name will be irrellevant.
You wouldn't allow yourself to be taken in by his "Straight Talk" bullshit, would you?

Yeah, Obama's a politician. But McCain's a criminal.

max, Obama is a hypocrite, ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

max, Obama is a hypocrite, McCain is a war hero, you are in denial.

TFB

Ke, I don't know if you've ... (Below threshold)

Ke, I don't know if you've seen the outrageous 527 antiMcCain ad that MoveOn.org is airing with a mother and her baby that stretches the meaning of John McCain's "hundred years" in Iraq to absurdity, but I found this just about as offensive as the antiObama piece. Both McCain and Obama are decent men, but it will be the 527s that will insult the intelligence of the public with terrible hit and run smears.

John McCain's campaign probably made a huge tactical mistake by accepting public funding, among other campaign mistakes that will lead to his defeat in November. But there needs to be some better regulation of the 527s if campaign reform is to really mean anything, otherwise havinng a anything goes political environment is the other way to go, where democracy is judged by who can raise and spend the most money and all campaign efforts, official and not rule the airwaves and Email inboxes.

Despite the starry-eyed adm... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Despite the starry-eyed admiration of some of Obama's supporters, many of us are quite aware that the man is a politician, and the first job of politicians is to be elected. That he is willing to do what it takes to win is not at all surprising to me. If he's a liar, he is so in ways no different than every other elected politician. He is certainly no less of a liar than John McCain, who opted-in to public financing when his campaign was on the ropes, then opted-out when he the money to spend above the limits.

For months Republicans have been telling us that Obama is naive and inexperienced. He has fooled you into thinking that, and in fact he is the exact opposite. You have, to quote our esteemed president, misunderestimated him, and McCain is going to get his ass handed to him in November if the Republicans keep thinking they're dealing with a rookie who doesn't know what he's doing.

Brooks is right, you guys are saps.

Obama also called his wife ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Obama also called his wife a c*nt.

No, wait, the senile guy with rage problems did that.

This election is going to be a joke.

DJ, I just think Obama is j... (Below threshold)

DJ, I just think Obama is just reacting in a pragmatic way to what his campaign views will be a huge onslaught of unfair 527 ads. I personally think that John McCain might regret his decision to accept public financing once the unfair 527s hit him as well from misguided unofficial supporters of Obama.

I don't really expect that the public will long remember that Obama changed his mind about public financing once his campaign heads convinced him to forego it. John McCain has changed his mind on the Bush tax policy,etc in the last few years as well. The public has to decide whether all of this is because of having an open mind that changes as conditions change, or whether these two guys are just wankers who play the public like fools. But I personally choose to see both men as basicly decent, but both sure want to be president, and sometimes may disappoint some in the public by seeming to be two-faced.

Good to know that Obama's t... (Below threshold)
Linoge Author Profile Page:

Good to know that Obama's true colors are finally showing through... It is probably too late to do anything about the people who are treating him like the Second Coming, but hopefully his very own actions will alienate some of the people still on the fence.

Mantis is right - Obama is willing to do anything necessary to ensure he is the next President - lie, cheat, steal, slander, malign, promise the world and deliver ash... And that should be a reason to vote for him?

DJ, McCain may have been a ... (Below threshold)
max:

DJ, McCain may have been a hero some 40 odd years ago. Today he is just another lying, thieving, scum-sucking politician just like all the rest. The fact that he's got you republicans snookered like this is truly hilarious. I think mantis is right. He's gonna get creamed. You keep on believin' though.

Paul, he did it because it'... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Paul, he did it because it's advantageous to him, and he's playing to win.

The public doesn't give a shit about public financing; that's why less than 10% of them check the box on their tax returns.

Obama is willing to do anything necessary to ensure he is the next President - lie, cheat, steal, slander, malign, promise the world and deliver ash... And that should be a reason to vote for him?

You just described every politician. If you want a saint elected, vote for your mother.

This is actually good for M... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

This is actually good for McCain as it frees up his supporters to contribute to the 527 attack machines. McCain is determined to run a "clean" campaign, but we all know that won't work nowadays. Let him go run his clean campaign on 85 million while his supporters feed millions into the attack machines.

This past week ABC network news had a piece about Barack's brother Abongo 'Roy' saying Barack is Muslim. How many think BHO wouldn't lie about his religion just to get elected President? Maybe some of the 527 groups can get Abongo on video and then put it on YouTube and TV in October.

Maybe Soros should pay for ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Maybe Soros should pay for an attack ad that explains how McCain called his wife a c*nt, since network (and even cable) news won't go near the word. I'd like to see that angry old piece of shit win an election carrying less than 10% of women voters.

This is actually good fo... (Below threshold)
mantis:

This is actually good for McCain as it frees up his supporters to contribute to the 527 attack machines.

Was something holding them back, aside from their lack of enthusiasm?

And could it be that we are... (Below threshold)
Linoge Author Profile Page:

And could it be that we are not getting any better calibre of politician simply because we are not expecting them to be better, demanding them to be better?

You know, you are right - if everyone were to start stealing from each other, it would be "ok", right? Why should I try and hold people to a higher, human standard?

So, braying mantis, you thi... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

So, braying mantis, you think it is ok for a politician to make a pledge than break it for convenience? I guess truth is relative, huh? It sure is with your side.

Max: "McCain may have be... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Max: "McCain may have been a hero some 40 odd years ago"

Wrong. What McCain did was 35-40 years ago, but it still counts. Heroism does not expire, you putz. Even if you hate his politics, you cannot pretend he was not heroic.

Mantis: "You just described every politician"

Wrong. Even within politics, there are differences in integrity and honor. And Obama's main contention was that he was a different, better, sort of public servant. We now have proof that he was lying.

hyperbolist: "that angry old piece of shit"

Classy, just the sort of debate we have come to expect from Obama's people. Dishonest, insulting, and completely unable to face the topic at hand, that is how Obama's people operate.

And could it be that we ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

And could it be that we are not getting any better calibre of politician simply because we are not expecting them to be better, demanding them to be better?

Demand all you want, but no one has been elected president in the last fifty years who was not a scoundrel. How do you suggest we change the entire system so the nice guy can win?

You know, you are right - if everyone were to start stealing from each other, it would be "ok", right?

What? Do try to make some sense.

Why should I try and hold people to a higher, human standard?

My guess is you don't bother to hold Republicans to a higher standard, only Democrats. Just like DJ. That's not holding people to higher standards, it's partisan hypocrisy.

At least I recognize that all politicians are scumbags, regardless of their party. I would like it if they were all honest and fair, but I know they are human beings, and I'll settle for living with a system that recognizes the tendency towards corruption and spreads the power around. That way they have to fight with each other and none of them get too much power. If the media didn't think they were part of the power structure, instead of a check against it as they should be, it might even stay that way.

Wrong. Even within polit... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Wrong. Even within politics, there are differences in integrity and honor.

I would make fun of you for being a naive fool, but I know you're just full of shit.

And Obama's main contention was that he was a different, better, sort of public servant.

And McCain's main contention is that he's a maverick who goes his own way. Do you really pay that much attention to slogans? Oh wait, almost forgot. Full of shit.

We now have proof that he was lying.

You have operated under that assumption from the very beginning, about every Democrat you see. Proof is irrelevant to you.

mantis: "no one has been... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

mantis: "no one has been elected president in the last fifty years who was not a scoundrel"

BS JFK was a womanizer, but a good President. Ford was in over his head, but he was a good, solid honest man. I hated Jimmy Carter's politics, but even today I believe he meant well and did his best. Reagan was the best President we've had since Lincoln. And like it or not, W has been proven to be honest and a man of integrity, who has withstood the venomous lies from scoundrels like you well past the point where a lesser man would break down.

mantis: "partisan hypocrisy"

BS again, moron. The fact is that I have called out bad Republicans, and I have been harsh on McCain before. But you idiots managed to pick a candidate so bad for America, that I have no choice but to support McCain. I may not always write what you want to read, but I have ALWAYS been honest, something you cannot seem to manage on your best day.


mantis: "I'll settle for living with a system that recognizes the tendency towards corruption and spreads the power around"

And there it is. You cannot believe in an America where the Constitution is followed, where men are treated equally, and we can trust most folks to do the right thing. Go back to your pale, dismal shell mantis. In America, we fix problems and work for a better future. Surrender is for cowards.

Well, Mantis, simply sittin... (Below threshold)
Linoge Author Profile Page:

Well, Mantis, simply sitting back on your ass saying, "Well, everyone is a bastard, so you may as well vote for this bastard," is certainly no way to fix the situation, that is for bloody sure. Of course, knowing you, you probably prefer the system this way.

Oh, and sorry that you could not keep up with my natural extension of your moral relativism... after all, politicians are just normal people, right? And if it is ok for them to be scoundrels, it may as well be ok for everyone else, too. And since you are following the logic that if every politician is a bastard, it is ok for Obama to be a bastard, we may as well extend that logic to the entire American populace, just to be fair - you know? 'Course, you probably live on a farm where some people are more equal than others...

And not as though it is any of your business, but your "guess" is as full of as much shit as you are, though it does expose you quite nicely as a "methinks he dost protest too much" martyr...

Was something hold... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Was something holding them back, aside from their lack of enthusiasm?

It's not really all that complicated. If someone has $100 they're willing to spend to help McCain win the election their first choice would normally be to give it directly to McCain's campaign. Now that McCain's campaign if being paid for by tax dollars (yours too), they can give the $100 to one or more of the 527 groups to go on the attack.

The fact is that I have ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

The fact is that I have called out bad Republicans

For going back on their word? How come you don't care that McCain opted-in to public financing and then changed his mind when he started winning? Obama is the liar and fraud but McCain is not? Your bullshit is quite obvious.

But you idiots managed to pick a candidate so bad for America, that I have no choice but to support McCain.

I wasn't talking to you, DJ. Nevertheless, as far as having no choice, you would never support a Democratic candidate, and you know it.

I may not always write what you want to read, but I have ALWAYS been honest, something you cannot seem to manage on your best day.

Well, you're good for a laugh, anyway.

You cannot believe in an America where the Constitution is followed, where men are treated equally, and we can trust most folks to do the right thing.

I believe in the Constitution, but I don't trust politicians to follow it. And I do trust most folks to do the right thing, it's just politicians are not "most folks."

In America, we fix problems and work for a better future. Surrender is for cowards.

I don't surrender anything. I just don't trust a politician to keep his word. That way I can be pleasantly surprised when they do.

"there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress" - Mark Twain

Well, Mantis, simply sit... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Well, Mantis, simply sitting back on your ass saying, "Well, everyone is a bastard, so you may as well vote for this bastard," is certainly no way to fix the situation, that is for bloody sure.

What are you doing to fix the system? Sitting back on your ass, and bitching at me? How's that working out?

And if it is ok for them to be scoundrels, it may as well be ok for everyone else, too.

When did I say it was ok? I said it was the reality. Recognizing the way things are is not the same thing as liking them that way.

DJ - "What McCain did was 3... (Below threshold)
max:

DJ - "What McCain did was 35-40 years ago, but it still counts. Heroism does not expire, you putz. Even if you hate his politics, you cannot pretend he was not heroic."

I don't care how heroic he may have been in the distant past, it doesn't make him above the law, and right now he is breaking the law. If you would rather vote for a criminal than a politician then you go right ahead. Assbag.

max, if he's broken the law... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

max, if he's broken the law, how come there are no indictments? How come liars like you don't even bother to link to any support for their claims, except when they link to other unsubstantiated lies?

And mantis, you're on the line. Behave or be disenvoweled. You want to go piss somewhere, find a bathroom.

max, participating in the p... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

max, participating in the public funding program is NOT breaking the law. Apparently you have zero understanding of what is going on. Furthermore:

"Last year, McCain pledged to participate in the public financing system if he won his party's nomination and the Democratic nominee did the same.

The vow came in response to similar positioning by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. The Illinois senator subsequently has backed away from committing to the program, however, as it has become clear his record-setting fundraising operation likely will be able to bring in significantly more than $84 million for the November general election."

Here ya go, bitches.... (Below threshold)
max:

Here ya go, bitches.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200902.php

"McCain opting into public financing, accepted the spending limits and then profited from that opt-in by securing a campaign saving loan. And then he used some clever, but not clever enough lawyering, to opt back out. And the person charged with saying what flies and what doesn't -- the Republican head of the FEC -- said he's not allowed to do that."

D-Hoggs - "max, participating in the public funding program is NOT breaking the law."

No shit, Sherlock. That's not what I said. Apparently YOU have zero understanding of what is going on. Furthermore, where did you steal that quote from?

And I STILL haven't seen the quote where Obama says unequivically, "I will use public financing." He basically said he'd look into it. Clever, yes, but not against the law.
depp=true

max, you absolutely said he... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

max, you absolutely said he is breaking the law. Jees you're an idiot.

max, "And I'll be waiting for your post excoriating John McCain for actually breaking the campaign finance laws he helped put in place."

max, "I don't care how heroic he may have been in the distant past, it doesn't make him above the law, and right now he is breaking the law"

max, you really are stupid.... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

max, you really are stupid. Your first line was enough to earn the loss of your vowels. The rest was no better.

Just because we are lenient does not mean you don't have to make an effort to stay in-bounds.

Even mantis seems to have understood he was close to the edge. You are somewhat less perceptive. So I will make it clear:


BEHAVE OR BE GONE.

here you go max:"A... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

here you go max:

"Asked last September on a questionnaire from the Midwest Democracy Network whether he would "participate in the presidential public financing system" if his "major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign," Obama checked the box marked "yes," then outlined his vision for the 2008 contest. "In February 2007, I proposed a novel way to preserve the strength of the public financing system in the 2008 election," he wrote. "My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election... If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

Obama then backed out of ever meeting with McCain.

Pfft, he called you on your... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Pfft, he called you on your partisan hypocrisy and you threaten him. Take your ball and go home.

btw Adrian, Bugs didn't ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

btw Adrian, Bugs didn't always win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYL0sg09AtY

That's a lie, hype. He spe... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

That's a lie, hype. He spewed out insults and a link to a site which provided no real evidence. He followed that with more invective.

This little tantrum was after my warning that such behavior would not be kosher.

If you cannot manage civil debate, you will run into consequences. That's not a threat, since anyone who can present their case with some maturity and a reasonable tone will be just fine. Your lie that 'partisan hypocrisy' is going on by the Editors here is proven by the fact that the initial posts were not edited or removed. You received warnings, and max decided to ignore them. That's not 'hypocrisy' on my part, but stupidity on his.

Brian, that is one distu... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Brian, that is one disturbing cartoon.

I think I've fallen into an... (Below threshold)

I think I've fallen into an alternate reality.

John McCain - the Republican - wants the tax payers to pay for his campaign and Barack Obama - the Democrat - wants to self finance.

Now Sen. McCain's people - Republicans - are criticizing Sen. Obama - Democrat - for not wanting to be on the public dole?

Were did all the Reagan conservatives go?


I love how the McCain supporters act upset, knowing full well Sen. McCain would do the exact same thing if he thought it would help him win.

Maybe you're really upset because you feel your guy as no real chance of raising the kind of money your opponent can raise in the next few months.

I've read where Obama could have a 6 to 1 advantage in internet donations and as many as 3 million online contributers. At his current rate, Sen. Obama could surpass the $500 million mark. (sorry no link)

Can we all please get real now?

[email protected], you do not seem to ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

[email protected], you do not seem to be living in the real world, that's for sure. For one thing, Obama is not 'self financing' by any real definition, he is basically refusing to limit his scale of spending, and he is hiding his donors. For example, this article

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200806/obama-finance

gives an insight as to how Obama did an end run around the existing laws and rules regarding financing. You may also want to notice how much of his money comes not from litte people, as he pretends, but from big-money corporations.

Hmmm. Obama wants no spending limits, changes rules to suit himself, lies about his supporters and takes credit for what other people do for him. Yep, that's a pretty typical liberal.

DJ,So the real rea... (Below threshold)

DJ,

So the real reason you're upset is because Sen. Obama is beating you at your own game?

Why would "big-money corporations" want a Democratic in the White House in 09?

Has the GOP now lost the "big-money corporations"?

Who's next the religious right?

Let me get this straight.</... (Below threshold)
Rance:

Let me get this straight.

You are all bent out of shape because Obama is not going to take money from federal government?

And you claim to be part of the political right?

[email protected], is that you max?</p... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

[email protected], is that you max?

Because it seems strange to find that many people in one place with reading comprehension that poor.

"So the real reason you'... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

"So the real reason you're upset is because Sen. Obama is beating you at your own game?"

Obama plays Pente?


"Why would "big-money corporations" want a Democratic in the White House in 09?"

They always have. Soros et al, you know ...

As yes, George Soros, the l... (Below threshold)
Rance:

As yes, George Soros, the left's answer to Carl Rove -- no matter what happens, it's George Soros pulling the strings behind the scenes.

"Obama is A Liar and a Frau... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"Obama is A Liar and a Fraud"

And this suprises someone how?

You're right, DJ. That was ... (Below threshold)
max:

You're right, DJ. That was uncalled for and I apologize. I forget sometimes that certain nuances simply don't translate to the written word. It was meant much more jovially than it was recieved.

However, I stand by the rest of my post.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/200902.php

The fact that he is breaking the law is just that, a fact.

And D-Hoggs, you're sorta right. I did and do say that McCain is a lawbreaker. But I didn't say that participating in the public funding program was against the law. The problem is that he opted in to the program, secured a loan based on his participation, and then when the money started rolling in, he opted out. It's simply not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. And it's explictly against the rules.

FWIW, anyone who's a Pente player can't be all bad.

Max,Well I watched... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Max,

Well I watched the entire video at your link and the claim that McCain is violating the law hinges on two points. First that the loan is "squirrelly" and second that the FEC chairman claims that campaigns can't opt out of public financing on their won initiative even if they have not yet taken any public money.

There's several problem with the claim that McCain is breaking the law. First characterizing the terms of a loan as "squirrelly" doesn't have any legal significance. Apparently, McCain's lawyer came up with a scheme to repay the loan if McCain's campaign tanked. The FEC chairman is saying that that scheme would violate FEC rules. Whether that's true or not has not been adjudicated and with McCain's success it's a moot point because McCain has not needed to use the disputed scheme. No law was broken. No FEC rule was broken.

Even if the FEC chairman is correct, and that's not clear, and then if his campaign had failed, which it didn't, then McCain would not have been able to repay the loan. That didn't happen, so there's no dispute and no violation of the law or FEC rules. You're barking up an empty tree. If McCain was up that tree the NYT would be all over this.

Thanks max. Funny thing abo... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Thanks max. Funny thing about blogs, someone says something, someone reacts to it and off we go. When the subject is emotional, even jokes can blow up.

For what it's worth, after ... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

For what it's worth, after reading your links, DJ, and doing some searches of my own, I can't find anywhere that Obama actually said, flat out, "I will opt for public financing in the general election."

To be a liar and a fraud, it seems you would have to say, "Yes, I will definately take public financing in the election," Not, "I think the public financing system is important, blah blah blah, but we'll see what happens."

Or to be a liar and a fraud, you just have to be a Democrat, in your opinion.

What the hell is Pente?

Wrong Mac. The only real qu... (Below threshold)
max:

Wrong Mac. The only real question is whether it can be proven that he used the promise of matching funds to secure a camapign saving loan. And it's pretty clear that's exactly what he did.

DJ, I think you'd agree that what this country needs more than anything is for more poeple to feel as passionately about politics as we do. But there are definite limitations to this form of communication.

Ryan, you're right. As far as I know, Obama never said that he would definitely use public funds. He just said he'd consider it. Which really makes DJ's post completely fall apart.

What's Pente? Only the greatest board game ever invented.

Wrong Mac. The onl... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Wrong Mac. The only real question is whether it can be proven that he used the promise of matching funds to secure a camapign saving loan. And it's pretty clear that's exactly what he did.

Sorry Max, I know you're invested in the idea that McCain has or even is committing a crime, but there's nothing to it.

A loan is a private contract agreed to by two parties and there's no crime in securing a loan with any reasonable scheme the party making the loan will accept. McCain (or anyone) could have promised to pay the loan back out of lottery winnings for which he hadn't yet bought a ticket if the party making the loan would accept it. Business often take out loans they promise to pay back with earnings from the product they're borrowing the money to develop, which is a bit like promising to win the lottery. It's perfectly legal as long as there's full disclosure.

If there were case law saying McCain's scheme was illegal, then that's a different story, but there is no such case law because this is a new issue no court has ever ruled on. Political opponents don't get to decide such things, nor does the FEC Chairman.

What McCain did was borrow money that he promised to pay back from his campaign. As a backup in case his champain failed, McCain offered the scheme that the FEC Chairman disputes. Had McCain's campaign failed and he attempted to employ that scheme then, and only then, would the legality of that scheme be tested. And it could very well be that McCain is correct and the FEC Chairman is wrong. Neither you, McCain nor the FEC Chairman get to decide if it's legal or not. That's for a court of law to decide and until there is such a ruling no one can say McCain's scheme is illegal. Get it?

The bigger problem for your theory, however, is that none of this took place and that makes it a moot issue. No court will issue a ruling, and without a ruling there's no there there. You're barking up an empty tree. Your theory won't hold water. Simply put, you're flat wrong and I can prove it.

Given the NYT's early attacks on McCain and given the apparent widespread knowledge of this loan issue, if there was anything the NYT could hammer McCain with they would be all over this story. Link to were the NYT did a hit job on this issue and I'll start to believe there's something to it. If not, then you need to find another horse to ride because the one you're on is dead and starting to stink.

Nice try, Mac, but you obvi... (Below threshold)
max:

Nice try, Mac, but you obviously don't understand what the issue is. Try reading very slowly and you might get that it's FEC rules that have been broken.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/mccains_fec_problem.php

Be sure to read the Wash. Post article as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/21/AR2008022103141_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008022102994

"But after McCain won a series of early contests and the campaign found its financial footing, his lawyer wrote to the FEC requesting to back out of the program -- which is permitted for candidates who have not yet received any federal money and who have not used the promise of federal funding as collateral for borrowing money."

And here's your coveted NYT link.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/mccain-told-he-must-take-public-money/?scp=1-b&sq=mccain+fec&st=nyt


Even if he were to be found to have barely complied with the rules, at the very least, this episode shoots gigantic holes in his "straight talk" bullshit. Just take the partisan blinders off for a moment and you'll figure it out. He's a politician. No dirtier and certainly no cleaner than the rest.

Republicans are voting agai... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Republicans are voting against Obama, not for McCain, max. I think the only people that bought the straight talk maverick horse shit are his media fluffers, of which there are many. After all, his campaign bus is always very well stocked with super premium liquor.

Max,I read all of ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Max,

I read all of your links. There are legal questions but no ruling by the FEC nor by any court of law. The FEC Chairman has one opinion and the former FEC Chairman has another opinion. Who's right? Normally the FEC could give a ruling, but there is not functioning FEC because of political squabbling between Bush and Democrats.

The important points are McCain never received any public money for his primary campaign. McCain claims he has a constitutional right to opt out prior to receiving that money. The FEC cannot decide constitutional issues, so even if it was functioning this issue would have to go to a court of law and McCain could actually be correct. Even if it turns out the FEC Chairman is correct, there's ample precedence demonstrating that courts won't uphold laws that irrationally hinder the political process. Such was the case in 2006 when a democrat dropped out of a race too late for another to take his place. Even though the law was clear, the court said it was invalid in that case. I expect the same would happen in McCain's case, but this issue is likely moot.

Of the three links the NYT piece was the most mellow. Given it's four months old there's obviously not much of a story there.

Even if he were to be found to have barely complied with the rules, at the very least, this episode shoots gigantic holes in his "straight talk" bullshit.

I never bought the "straight talk" bullshit in the first place, and I hope you're smart enough to not buy Obama's "different kind of politician" bullshit.

He's a politician. No dirtier and certainly no cleaner than the rest.

Well crap, you finally gone and done. Posted something we agree on.

It's really comes down to two things. The man's character under fire and their views on where this nation should go and how to get their. McCain's character under fire (literally) has been tested and while he's not the smartest man around he's at least as smart as Obama. I think Obama is a left wing extremist and if McCain can paint him as such then this will be a real contest. We'll leave it up to the 527 groups to sling the dirt.

"Republicans are voting aga... (Below threshold)
max:

"Republicans are voting against Obama, not for McCain, max." - How true it is.
It's a long way to November, but I have a feeling if things keep going the way they are, McCain is going to get his ass handed to him. Possibly in Reagan/Mondale proportions.

Mac, yup, regardless of some peoples misplaced adoration, Obama's a politician, just like the rest. I still think he will be infinitely better than McCain. But only time will tell. Regardless of who our next president is, though, America will be just fine. Neither man will "destroy" America.

Of course, the implication of DJ's post is that Obama is somehow dirtier than McCain, and that is patently false.




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