AHHH! Lee Ward. The bad old days. What a putz. ww

Just when the diabolical plan to keep him too busy at Blue to post here seemed to be working...

Lee, I feel like helping out this AM:

This is another #)#($! right-wing smear that ignores the @$)(@*!) facts full of personal attacks and ad homonym attacks by that pillow-licking closet Repuklican TJ that unfairly and ineffectually attempts to denigrate my fair and balanced criticisms of John McBush [insert here your favorite cut and paste of a Kosian delight, at least 500 words long].

Funny how the 'reality-based' crowd tends to think reality is something that only THEY can define...

And I'll even go out on a limb, and say that -- should Mr. Ward choose to reply -- his response will be full of empty rhetoric, imprecations and invective, wild revisions of history, personal attacks and generic insults

Awe c'mon now. That's like saying 'the dog will either be quiet or make some type of barking noise'. What else can it do ?

There's quote from a novel that describes Lee well. I cannot recall the author, novel, nor the exact wording (perhaps someone can jog my memory) but it's roughly paraphrased,

"Having recognized the trait in myself, I soon began to suspect it of others."

What's in-tar-resting is that while Wizbang's main page links to Wizbang Blue, there's no conspicuous link from Wizbang Blue to Wizbang's main page. It's a one-way association. It appears that Kevin doesn't what the brain washed blue readers to contaminate Wizbang's main page, or LW doesn't want the brain washed blue readers to easily find the truth.

Liberalism is emotion based, so facts and reason are not prominent in the mindset of those who are effected by that disorder. We can only hope science finds a cure.

Lee who?

In short, based on actual, verifiable facts, it's fairly clear that the liberal 527 groups will be far more involved in this election than the conservative ones.

On the earlier thread I mentioned that I suspect one reason why liberals dominate 527 fund-raising is that not very many conservatives want to set up an organization to advance GOP ideas or candidates only to have McCain reward them for their efforts by kicking them in the nuts.

Philip K. Dick offers a wonderful quote to describe why liberals prefer the "reality-based community" to actual reality:

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

As a wise man once said, "Don't get into a mud slinging contest with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it."

He just wants attention.

Yeah,
Lee Ward is one of the most childish writers I have ever read. Every point of fact I tired to make with him was responded to with grade school insults, with no substance to back him up. It's sad, but reasoning with him is a waste of time.

I confess that I enjoyed helping Lee smack Obama around during the primary. Taking the other side's flame thrower and assist in pointing it at one of their own was a source of great satisfaction.

I'm going to strongly defend Lee here. In this current election cycle, John McCain has so failed to attract anywhere near the political donation strength of any Republican presidential candidate that I have ever known of, but as the election approaches, you can expect the rise of many more right wing 527's who many not like John McCain all that much but certainly like Barack Obama far less. In 2004, one conservative 527 popped up almost overnight and was almost entirely funded by WalMart heiress Alice Walton and two other big donors. So you cannot judge where the 527s will come from until we are actually far more into the election cycle. MoveOn only shows more strength right now because this 527 has existed for a number of years, while many of the conservative 527s will pop up near the election.

In the 2004 election cycle, the SWIFTBOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH, which was also funded largely by only just a few donors, popped up after both party conventions well into the general election cycle. So don't judge where the 527s will come from until at least September and the real campaign is under way.

Jay, not to nitpick here, but don't you actually mean to say "boogeyman". I'm Your Boogie Man" is a disco song originally done by KC And The Sunshine Band, but a later remake by Rob Zombie's group, White Zombie, gave the song a decidedly creepy twist.

Hooson,

You're entitled to your own opinion (although I'd really appreciate it if you keep it to your God damned marxist self) but as is almost always the case with you, your "facts" are completely untrue.

The Swiftboat Veterans for the Truth formed in early 2004 and the first of their adds pointing our the truth about Kerry appeared in May of 2004, long before either convention.

P. Bunyan, Political Moneyline and some other authoritive sources such Congressional Quarterly are always the best sources to trace where the donations for any 527 actually comes from.

I certainly did't realize that I was a Marxist. I've always thought of myself as a bit of a capitalist having owned three TV shops, two bookstores and one record store, and now renting out real estate property I control. But, you're certainly entitled to your wrong opinions on any issue you choose, including if you think that I'm Marxist. It's still a free country you know. A very good day to you.

I set aside my "don't pick on the terminally clueless" and "don't wrestle with pigs" principles, ignore the wisdom of "don't get into arguments with idiots -- they drag you down to their level and then beat you through experience,"

Thank you, Jay. I need to remember these every time I decide to make the dumb choice of reading and leaving a comment on one of Lee's, um, articles. In fact, I was driven temporarily insane by this Ward-ism:

I didn't blame the Bush Admin for the price of oil, I blamed them for the higher prices we're seeing today.

I basically had the response that the AFLAC duck does in the commercial with Yogi Berra. Only not as funny. Or as clever as Yogi.

Heh. "reality-based community" indeed.

An easy to decipher community, if you realize they operate from a fiction-based reality.

Paul, P. Bunyon pointed out to you that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth started in the early part of 2004 and their ads started in May of 2004, months before the conventions. You responded:

In the 2004 election cycle, the SWIFTBOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH, which was also funded largely by only just a few donors, popped up after both party conventions well into the general election cycle. So don't judge where the 527s will come from until at least September and the real campaign is under way

You were shown to be wrong. Please have the decency to correct yourself. Thanks. ww

Jay Tea vs. Lee Ward

I'm going to strongly defend Lee here.

Well ... get on with it.

mantis,

Put me down for $50 on Jay Tea and whatever odds you're giving.

mantis, I only have one thing to say to you for that matchup.

J.

Answer:
Lee Ward
Ward Churchill
Psych Ward

Name 3 uses of "ward = nuts".

anyhow, Lee is always good for a laugh.

Peter F., mantis, and JT:

ROTFLMAO!!! Simply. En Fuego.

WildWillie, SWIFTBOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH was largely funded by just one donor, Houston homebuilder Bob Perry, who gave $4.4 million to bankroll 2004 TV campaigns largely in key battleground states such as Wisconsin, Ohio and West Virginia against John Kerry. Kerry failed to respond to these attacks because no TV advertising campaign had ever attacked the war service of a veteran before in this unusual manner.

In 2006, another 527 front organization funded by Bob Perry called AMERICANS FOR HONESTY spent $165,000 to prevent the defeat of embattled New Mexico Congresswoman Heather Wilson. In Kentucky, the same Perry front spent $159,000 to influence a race for Congress. And In Oregon another the 5th Congressional District race had Perry pump in more money. Each election, Perry of Perry Homes spends around $8 million or more to influence races around the country in districts that he doesn't live in or own any property assets in.

The NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATIONS own 527 is planning to spend $15 to defeat Barack Obama even though he voiced support for the recent Supreme Court decision regarding the D.C. gun ban because the NRA opposes a ban on assualt rifles and believes that citizens should be able to purchase unlimited amounts of handguns per month, while Obama favors a limit on one handgun purchase per month.

Some 527s are attacking Obama suggesting that he's a Muslim while others will attack him because of his membership in Rev. Wrights's Christian Church. The 527's can't even get their stories straight and often contradict each other.

The 527s are planning to spend huge amounts of money to sway both the presidential and congressional elections, however in many cases these shadowy organization actually involve very few donors as the case of Bob Perry, Alice Walton, and a few other major pursestrings well proves.

Senator Obama has also been critical of an unfair attack on John McCain launched by MoveOn.org, which does have a larger base of smaller donors, but sometimes runs ads that are unfair in their attacks.

Whether from the left or right, 527s will present some bothersome attacks this election season, and many will voice unfair charges.

"I confess that I enjoyed helping Lee smack Obama around during the primary"

Yeh, until he got religion overnight and starting kissing the (Black) Jesus's feet.

And for what's it's worth, it's probably better to ignore Lee over at Blue.

Paul, I hate to be this harsh to you, but you really, really asked for it:

The NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATIONS own 527 is planning to spend $15 to defeat Barack Obama even though he voiced support for the recent Supreme Court decision regarding the D.C. gun ban because the NRA opposes a ban on assualt rifles and believes that citizens should be able to purchase unlimited amounts of handguns per month, while Obama favors a limit on one handgun purchase per month.

Obama answered an anti-gun group's questionnaire saying he supported the banning of all handguns. He spent eight years on the board of directors of one of the most anti-gun groups in the country. He voted against confirming two of the justices who voted with the majority on the Heller case. And he made several statements in favor of the DC gun ban.

Then, once the court makes its ruling, ONLY THEN does he say that he "agrees" with the court's decision.

Pardon the language, Paul, but HOW FUCKING STUPID DOES HE -- AND DO YOU -- THINK WE ARE?

He hasn't said he was wrong for all those years, he's just pretending that he never said and did those things. He wants us to play along and only listen to his most recent statements, no matter how much they contradict his prior words and deeds.

You can play along with that little fantasy, Paul, but don't expect everyone else to indulge that delusion.

J.

Jay, hold your horses a little here. I'm not personally aware of any NRA questionaire that Obama signed because I am not a member of that organization or have heard of it personally. I only made mention that the NRA will spend $15 million in a 527 ad campaign against Obama based on two points that they disagree with him on, the assault weapons ban and his support for limiting handguns sales to one per month.

My only real point above was that 527s plan to spend a great deal of money in 2008. Period. However if Mr. Obama, or Mr. McCain for that matter as well, give contradictory answers on issues, then certainly that can become a problem for them. That doesn't require Einstein to figure out.

Paul, I said it was an "anti-gun group's" questionnaire, and there's a PDF of it here.

There are also extensive accounts there of his service as a director of the Joyce Foundation. While he was on the board of directors, it sponsored a symposium dedicated to the idea that the 2nd Amendment is a collective, not individual right, and sponsored a book entitled "Every Handgun Is Aimed at You: The Case for Banning Handguns." The precise questions and answers:

35. Do you support state legislation to: a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes. b. ban assault weapons? Yes. c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

As I said, you're more than welcome to take Obama at his word now that he's in favor of the individual's right to keep and bear arms. I'll put more weight in his actions over the previous 12 years -- especially since he hasn't repudiated any of them.

Oh, my bad -- he has repudiated that questionanaire. He says he the handwritten answers are his, the typed ones by an anonymous staffer who "misrepresented" Obama's views.

Gee, isn't that convenient. And familiar.

J.

Jay, on the surface there appears to be some serious contradictions here. However, once Obama became senator, then all sorts of lobbyists and citizens letters no doubt bombarded him while in office(there are 66 lobbyists for every member of congress)then perhaps his views may shifted a little. But as a whole, I would certainly brand him as a critic of guns, although he may have agreed with the Supreme Court decision because it allowed reasonable laws to protect public order, while upholding the Bill Of Rights.

There are many important issues for a voter to consider, and if they are only a "gun rights" single issue voter, then I'd say not to vote for Obama. He's not a big "gun rights" guy. But if voters worry about other issues such as the economy, high energy prices, diplomacy and sanctions over armed conflict with Iran and North Korea, etc., then I imagine voters will give Obama a decent look.

The underside of that bus is getting pretty damn crowded...

Paul -

My main problem with Obama is that he's a blasted weathervane. People look up, see him pointing the direction they want, and figure he'll STAY pointing that direction - but when circumstances change, so does the direction he points.

Obama doesn't seem to have a conviction he'll stand on, which is fine if you're looking for votes since you can pander to everyone all the time. But for governing a city, a state - a country? He doesn't have any experience to speak of... but he's got people believing it doesn't matter.

What if he gets into office? What if he runs into situations where he absolutely MUST make hard policy decisions and then stick with them, or the results will be really bad? Can he do it?

You're a business owner. Would you hire someone as a bookstore manager who had no retail experience whatsoever? No idea how to manage and schedule the workers, no idea how to receive and return books or even run a cash register?

Would you hire Obama to run a TV shop? Or manage your properties?

If you were hiring him to manage a business - how many people would you trust him to manage?

Never thought I'd say this - but he's looking worse than Jimmy Carter. Carter may have been (and still is, in my opinion) wrong on a lot of stuff, but he stood by his convictions.

Obama's? Well, they're blowin' in the wind...

But if voters worry about other issues such as the economy, high energy prices, diplomacy and sanctions over armed conflict with Iran and North Korea, etc.,

Well I don't see where any of Obama's ideas for the economy or high energy prices are as good as what McCain is promoting. On energy Obama is flat wrong when he says domestic drilling won't have an impact on oil prices. That's the same failed policy democrats have been promoting for 30 years and it's time for change.

The high price of oil is not due to current supply and demand as there's a surplus of supply right now. The high price of oil is due to the future supply and demand equation based on the perception that demand will outgrow supply. The way to break that perception is for the US to do everything it can to produce more and use less energy. That means we drill wherever there's oil and gas, we build nuclear plants and open Yucca mountain, we promote wind, solar, clean coal, and geothermal. We fund a massive research effort into the next generation of battery technology so that truly practical electric and plugable hybrid vehicles can be brought to market. The US can invent and export oil replacement technology to the entire world.

What this says to the markets and to oil exporting nations is that the demand for oil will decline, and they are going to get caught with billions of barrels of the stuff still in the ground with little market for it. Guess what, they will start pumping it as fast as they can as soon as the perception changes and that will bring prices down. The challenge then will be not to fall back into the cheap oil trap. We may need to tax oil to keep it's price high just as they do in Europe.

It's McCain who's currently running ads for energy independence and before election day I predict so will weathervane Obama.