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I'm Your Boogie Man

I'm about to break one of the behind-the-scenes rules here at Wizbang: I'm not supposed to mess around with Wizbang Blue. This rule -- which I pretty much proposed -- was because I get along fine with three of the authors there.

And then there's Lee Ward, who makes the raving lunatics at Democratic Underground look like the guys from Powerline.

I've been content to ignore him, to let him fester in the fetid abyss of his own well-deserved obscurity, but he's done something so colossally stupid -- and it happened to be on a subject I had recently versed myself upon.

Namely, 527 political groups and the role they may play in the upcoming election.

I did something that rarely -- if ever -- crosses Mr. Ward's mind: I actually looked at facts, and left the frothing, hysterical invective jar on the shelf. And when I looked at the financial figures for the groups, what did I find?

Judging just by the top 25 groups, oughly 2/3 of all monies raised so far by 527s has gone towards liberal-leaning groups. Conservative groups get about a quarter of the total pot. (The remaining goes to "neutral" groups.)

And as Mr. Ward was so kind to point out (from someone else's article, which he quoted extensively -- his article is 500 words of someone else's article, 150 of his own), a lot of the conservative people and groups who worked hard in 2004 are sitting this election out, for various and sundry reasons.

Indeed, as far as I know, there's only been one major move by any 527 group -- MoveOn.org's hysterical (in several senses of the word -- both as a description fo the actress in it and the sentiment behind it) "John McCain, you can't have Alex" video. Brought to you by the same people who got a heftily-discounted ad in the New York Times to call General Petraeus a liar before he even testified, this featured a young lady telling John McCain that he can't have her son -- who will not turn 18 until the year 2025 or so, when McCain will be nine years out of office (presuming he wins this November and again in 2012) and pushing 90.

Which means MoveOn apparently thinks that John McCain will not only repeal the 22nd Amendment, but also reinstate the draft -- a move that so far has been entirely pushed by Democrats.

So that's the situation on the 527 front: roughly 2/3 of the top 25 groups -- and about the same percentage of money raised -- is pretty securely in the Democrats' corner. Several of the "big players" on the conservative side have publicly declared no interest in getting involved in the election entirely. In short, based on actual, verifiable facts, it's fairly clear that the liberal 527 groups will be far more involved in this election than the conservative ones.

Unless, of course, you're Mr. Ward -- who probably sees Karl Rove under his bed or in his closet, just waiting for the precise moment to JUMPOUTANDSMEARLEEWITHMUDANDSHIPHIMOFFTODIEFOROILINIRAQ!!!!!!! or something. Then, the correct response is the old movie cliche' -- "it's quiet. Too quiet." Or, in his own hysterical words: "My theory is that with reduced funding they are just holding their fire until we get closer to the election and diligence needs to be maintained."

It gets even more entertaining in the comments. (Which, remarkably, haven't been deleted or gotten any commenters banned -- at least, as far as I can tell. That's yet another area where the brackish backwater that is Blue and here on the main page differs, and I'm very proud of my role in holding up part of that distinction.) Mr. Ward's... well, nuttiness can't be contained. General David Petraeus was not smeared, he was "criticized" because "he is a pillow-biting Republican hand-licker."

I'm trying to imagine anyone -- let alone someone of General Petraeus' dignity -- being able to simultaneously bite a pillow and lick a hand, and I'm just not seeing it. If you're biting something, then then it's physically impossible for one's tongue to lick anything outside your mouth. Go ahead and try it -- you don't even have to use a pillow.

And that's not even touching upon the homophobic slur of "pillow-biter." (Thank you, Google, for helping me find a moderately safe definition.

Finally, we have The Ward Political Dictionary in action: attacking conservatives is "criticism." attacking liberals is "smearing."

As far as I can tell (and I really make an effort to avoid Blue, but I feel I have to keep an eye on things over there to make sure Mr. Ward doesn't launch another libelous, legally-actionable attack on me (thanks, Kevin, for responding so quickly that time he did just that -- sorry I threatened to get a lawyer involved), Mr. Ward has two modes of writing: batshit crazy attack, and psycho batshit crazy attack. He spent much of the Democratic primary season attacking Obama (that was his way of supporting Hillary Clinton), but that game's over. So now he has to support Obama, the target of so many of his spews, and the best way he knows how is to go after McCain and those who dare do what he spent so many months doing -- slamming Obama.

Those were the Old Rules, though -- now that Obama has the nomination in his pocket (in all but fact), the New Rules apply.

As I said, I really, really, really try to avoid Blue whenever possible. But when Mr. Ward decides to vent his spleen (a more accurate bodily function metaphor came to mind first, but I'm trying to be somewhat genteel here) over a subject that I've just spent considerable effort to research (especially after I published my first piece, and made a rather embarrassing error, and went back to double-check several other things) and gets it completely, utterly, and unmitigatedly WRONG (but entirely consistent with his exceptionally perverse worldview), I set aside my "don't pick on the terminally clueless" and "don't wrestle with pigs" principles, ignore the wisdom of "don't get into arguments with idiots -- they drag you down to their level and then beat you through experience," and shoot my fool mouth off.

I think I already regret this.

But I also know the wisdom of the old saying that in life, the biggest regrets you'll have are not for the things you do, but the things you never do. (Damn, why didn't I ever ask out Sheri back in college? What the hell did I have to lose?)

So, in honor of that long-lost opportunity, of a certain willowy, soft-spoken brunette with a scar that made her so self-conscious, I'm publishing this piece.

And I'll even go out on a limb, and say that -- should Mr. Ward choose to reply -- his response will be full of empty rhetoric, imprecations and invective, wild revisions of history, personal attacks and generic insults -- but not one mention of the actual facts concerning 527 groups, and how the vast majority of them (and their money) will be going to support the candidate he spent months tearing down, and only a small percentage will put forth efforts to continue the project he so recently abandoned.

Can't have that, can we?

UPDATE: Mr. Ward is reverting to type. At first, he starts off all civil and polite, but as soon as someone (in this case, Clay) dares challenge him, he goes frothing crazy and bans him for his impertinence.

Oh, and Lee, I know you'd rather keep refighting the 2004 elections, because it gets you off the hook for the current situation, but 1) you and your guy LOST and 2) Kerry never signed Form 180 the way he promised. He said he'd make his records public; instead, he gave permission only to three specific reporters, including one guy who wrote his fawning biography. The general public has NEVER had access to Kerry's full military record, which would fill in some blanks, such as the date of his formal discharge -- there are enough discrepancies to suggest (I said SUGGEST) that Kerry was initially given a less-than-honorable discharge at first, and later had it upgraded.

So keep spinning your web of denial, Lee, that it's the big, scary Republican 527s that are the REAL threat to this election. Keep ignoring the FACTS that the Democratic groups have far, far outraised the Republicans, and the only real "smearing" going on has been by Democratic groups -- I refer, again, specifically, to MoveOn.org and their gross insult to General Petraeus (subsidized by the New York Times) and their "John McCain's going to draft my infant!" ad.

Unless, of course, you've redefined your "reality" to pretend that MoveOn doesn't exist, or at least doesn't count. Which would not surprise me in the least.


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Comments (52)

AHHH! Lee Ward. The bad old... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

AHHH! Lee Ward. The bad old days. What a putz. ww

Just when the diabolical pl... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Just when the diabolical plan to keep him too busy at Blue to post here seemed to be working...

Lee, I feel like helping ou... (Below threshold)
epador:

Lee, I feel like helping out this AM:

This is another #)#($! right-wing smear that ignores the @$)(@*!) facts full of personal attacks and ad homonym attacks by that pillow-licking closet Repuklican TJ that unfairly and ineffectually attempts to denigrate my fair and balanced criticisms of John McBush [insert here your favorite cut and paste of a Kosian delight, at least 500 words long].

Funny how the 'reality-base... (Below threshold)
JLawsonn:

Funny how the 'reality-based' crowd tends to think reality is something that only THEY can define...

And I'll even go o... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:
And I'll even go out on a limb, and say that -- should Mr. Ward choose to reply -- his response will be full of empty rhetoric, imprecations and invective, wild revisions of history, personal attacks and generic insults

Awe c'mon now. That's like saying 'the dog will either be quiet or make some type of barking noise'. What else can it do ?

There's quote from a novel that describes Lee well. I cannot recall the author, novel, nor the exact wording (perhaps someone can jog my memory) but it's roughly paraphrased,

"Having recognized the trait in myself, I soon began to suspect it of others."

What's in-tar-resting is th... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

What's in-tar-resting is that while Wizbang's main page links to Wizbang Blue, there's no conspicuous link from Wizbang Blue to Wizbang's main page. It's a one-way association. It appears that Kevin doesn't what the brain washed blue readers to contaminate Wizbang's main page, or LW doesn't want the brain washed blue readers to easily find the truth.

Liberalism is emotion based, so facts and reason are not prominent in the mindset of those who are effected by that disorder. We can only hope science finds a cure.

Lee who?... (Below threshold)

Lee who?

In short, based on... (Below threshold)
In short, based on actual, verifiable facts, it's fairly clear that the liberal 527 groups will be far more involved in this election than the conservative ones.

On the earlier thread I mentioned that I suspect one reason why liberals dominate 527 fund-raising is that not very many conservatives want to set up an organization to advance GOP ideas or candidates only to have McCain reward them for their efforts by kicking them in the nuts.

Philip K. Dick offers a won... (Below threshold)
pgg:

Philip K. Dick offers a wonderful quote to describe why liberals prefer the "reality-based community" to actual reality:

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

As a wise man once said, "D... (Below threshold)
kevino:

As a wise man once said, "Don't get into a mud slinging contest with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it."

He just wants attention.

Yeah,Lee Ward is one... (Below threshold)
tyree:

Yeah,
Lee Ward is one of the most childish writers I have ever read. Every point of fact I tired to make with him was responded to with grade school insults, with no substance to back him up. It's sad, but reasoning with him is a waste of time.

I confess that I enjoyed he... (Below threshold)

I confess that I enjoyed helping Lee smack Obama around during the primary. Taking the other side's flame thrower and assist in pointing it at one of their own was a source of great satisfaction.

I'm going to strongly defen... (Below threshold)

I'm going to strongly defend Lee here. In this current election cycle, John McCain has so failed to attract anywhere near the political donation strength of any Republican presidential candidate that I have ever known of, but as the election approaches, you can expect the rise of many more right wing 527's who many not like John McCain all that much but certainly like Barack Obama far less. In 2004, one conservative 527 popped up almost overnight and was almost entirely funded by WalMart heiress Alice Walton and two other big donors. So you cannot judge where the 527s will come from until we are actually far more into the election cycle. MoveOn only shows more strength right now because this 527 has existed for a number of years, while many of the conservative 527s will pop up near the election.

In the 2004 election cycle, the SWIFTBOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH, which was also funded largely by only just a few donors, popped up after both party conventions well into the general election cycle. So don't judge where the 527s will come from until at least September and the real campaign is under way.

Jay, not to nitpick here, b... (Below threshold)

Jay, not to nitpick here, but don't you actually mean to say "boogeyman". I'm Your Boogie Man" is a disco song originally done by KC And The Sunshine Band, but a later remake by Rob Zombie's group, White Zombie, gave the song a decidedly creepy twist.

Hooson, You're ent... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Hooson,

You're entitled to your own opinion (although I'd really appreciate it if you keep it to your God damned marxist self) but as is almost always the case with you, your "facts" are completely untrue.

The Swiftboat Veterans for the Truth formed in early 2004 and the first of their adds pointing our the truth about Kerry appeared in May of 2004, long before either convention.

P. Bunyan, Political Moneyl... (Below threshold)

P. Bunyan, Political Moneyline and some other authoritive sources such Congressional Quarterly are always the best sources to trace where the donations for any 527 actually comes from.

I certainly did't realize that I was a Marxist. I've always thought of myself as a bit of a capitalist having owned three TV shops, two bookstores and one record store, and now renting out real estate property I control. But, you're certainly entitled to your wrong opinions on any issue you choose, including if you think that I'm Marxist. It's still a free country you know. A very good day to you.

I set aside my "don't pi... (Below threshold)

I set aside my "don't pick on the terminally clueless" and "don't wrestle with pigs" principles, ignore the wisdom of "don't get into arguments with idiots -- they drag you down to their level and then beat you through experience,"

Thank you, Jay. I need to remember these every time I decide to make the dumb choice of reading and leaving a comment on one of Lee's, um, articles. In fact, I was driven temporarily insane by this Ward-ism:

I didn't blame the Bush Admin for the price of oil, I blamed them for the higher prices we're seeing today.

I basically had the response that the AFLAC duck does in the commercial with Yogi Berra. Only not as funny. Or as clever as Yogi.

Heh. "reality-based com... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:

Heh. "reality-based community" indeed.

An easy to decipher community, if you realize they operate from a fiction-based reality.

Paul, P. Bunyon pointed out... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Paul, P. Bunyon pointed out to you that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth started in the early part of 2004 and their ads started in May of 2004, months before the conventions. You responded:

In the 2004 election cycle, the SWIFTBOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH, which was also funded largely by only just a few donors, popped up after both party conventions well into the general election cycle. So don't judge where the 527s will come from until at least September and the real campaign is under way

You were shown to be wrong. Please have the decency to correct yourself. Thanks. ww

<a href="http://www.youtube... (Below threshold)
mantis:
I'm going to stron... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
I'm going to strongly defend Lee here.

Well ... get on with it.

mantis,Put me down... (Below threshold)

mantis,

Put me down for $50 on Jay Tea and whatever odds you're giving.

mantis, I only have <a href... (Below threshold)

mantis, I only have one thing to say to you for that matchup.

J.

Answer:Lee Ward<br /... (Below threshold)
codekeyguy:

Answer:
Lee Ward
Ward Churchill
Psych Ward

Name 3 uses of "ward = nuts".

anyhow, Lee is always good for a laugh.

Peter F., mantis, and JT:</... (Below threshold)

Peter F., mantis, and JT:

ROTFLMAO!!! Simply. En Fuego.

WildWillie, SWIFTBOAT VETER... (Below threshold)

WildWillie, SWIFTBOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH was largely funded by just one donor, Houston homebuilder Bob Perry, who gave $4.4 million to bankroll 2004 TV campaigns largely in key battleground states such as Wisconsin, Ohio and West Virginia against John Kerry. Kerry failed to respond to these attacks because no TV advertising campaign had ever attacked the war service of a veteran before in this unusual manner.

In 2006, another 527 front organization funded by Bob Perry called AMERICANS FOR HONESTY spent $165,000 to prevent the defeat of embattled New Mexico Congresswoman Heather Wilson. In Kentucky, the same Perry front spent $159,000 to influence a race for Congress. And In Oregon another the 5th Congressional District race had Perry pump in more money. Each election, Perry of Perry Homes spends around $8 million or more to influence races around the country in districts that he doesn't live in or own any property assets in.

The NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATIONS own 527 is planning to spend $15 to defeat Barack Obama even though he voiced support for the recent Supreme Court decision regarding the D.C. gun ban because the NRA opposes a ban on assualt rifles and believes that citizens should be able to purchase unlimited amounts of handguns per month, while Obama favors a limit on one handgun purchase per month.

Some 527s are attacking Obama suggesting that he's a Muslim while others will attack him because of his membership in Rev. Wrights's Christian Church. The 527's can't even get their stories straight and often contradict each other.

The 527s are planning to spend huge amounts of money to sway both the presidential and congressional elections, however in many cases these shadowy organization actually involve very few donors as the case of Bob Perry, Alice Walton, and a few other major pursestrings well proves.

Senator Obama has also been critical of an unfair attack on John McCain launched by MoveOn.org, which does have a larger base of smaller donors, but sometimes runs ads that are unfair in their attacks.

Whether from the left or right, 527s will present some bothersome attacks this election season, and many will voice unfair charges.

"I confess that I enjoye... (Below threshold)
John S:

"I confess that I enjoyed helping Lee smack Obama around during the primary"

Yeh, until he got religion overnight and starting kissing the (Black) Jesus's feet.

And for what's it's worth, it's probably better to ignore Lee over at Blue.

Paul, I hate to be this har... (Below threshold)

Paul, I hate to be this harsh to you, but you really, really asked for it:

The NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATIONS own 527 is planning to spend $15 to defeat Barack Obama even though he voiced support for the recent Supreme Court decision regarding the D.C. gun ban because the NRA opposes a ban on assualt rifles and believes that citizens should be able to purchase unlimited amounts of handguns per month, while Obama favors a limit on one handgun purchase per month.

Obama answered an anti-gun group's questionnaire saying he supported the banning of all handguns. He spent eight years on the board of directors of one of the most anti-gun groups in the country. He voted against confirming two of the justices who voted with the majority on the Heller case. And he made several statements in favor of the DC gun ban.

Then, once the court makes its ruling, ONLY THEN does he say that he "agrees" with the court's decision.

Pardon the language, Paul, but HOW FUCKING STUPID DOES HE -- AND DO YOU -- THINK WE ARE?

He hasn't said he was wrong for all those years, he's just pretending that he never said and did those things. He wants us to play along and only listen to his most recent statements, no matter how much they contradict his prior words and deeds.

You can play along with that little fantasy, Paul, but don't expect everyone else to indulge that delusion.

J.

Jay, hold your horses a li... (Below threshold)

Jay, hold your horses a little here. I'm not personally aware of any NRA questionaire that Obama signed because I am not a member of that organization or have heard of it personally. I only made mention that the NRA will spend $15 million in a 527 ad campaign against Obama based on two points that they disagree with him on, the assault weapons ban and his support for limiting handguns sales to one per month.

My only real point above was that 527s plan to spend a great deal of money in 2008. Period. However if Mr. Obama, or Mr. McCain for that matter as well, give contradictory answers on issues, then certainly that can become a problem for them. That doesn't require Einstein to figure out.

Paul, I said it was an "ant... (Below threshold)

Paul, I said it was an "anti-gun group's" questionnaire, and there's a PDF of it here.

There are also extensive accounts there of his service as a director of the Joyce Foundation. While he was on the board of directors, it sponsored a symposium dedicated to the idea that the 2nd Amendment is a collective, not individual right, and sponsored a book entitled "Every Handgun Is Aimed at You: The Case for Banning Handguns." The precise questions and answers:

35. Do you support state legislation to: a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes. b. ban assault weapons? Yes. c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

As I said, you're more than welcome to take Obama at his word now that he's in favor of the individual's right to keep and bear arms. I'll put more weight in his actions over the previous 12 years -- especially since he hasn't repudiated any of them.

Oh, my bad -- he has repudiated that questionanaire. He says he the handwritten answers are his, the typed ones by an anonymous staffer who "misrepresented" Obama's views.

Gee, isn't that convenient. And familiar.

J.

Jay, on the surface there a... (Below threshold)

Jay, on the surface there appears to be some serious contradictions here. However, once Obama became senator, then all sorts of lobbyists and citizens letters no doubt bombarded him while in office(there are 66 lobbyists for every member of congress)then perhaps his views may shifted a little. But as a whole, I would certainly brand him as a critic of guns, although he may have agreed with the Supreme Court decision because it allowed reasonable laws to protect public order, while upholding the Bill Of Rights.

There are many important issues for a voter to consider, and if they are only a "gun rights" single issue voter, then I'd say not to vote for Obama. He's not a big "gun rights" guy. But if voters worry about other issues such as the economy, high energy prices, diplomacy and sanctions over armed conflict with Iran and North Korea, etc., then I imagine voters will give Obama a decent look.

The underside of that bus i... (Below threshold)

The underside of that bus is getting pretty damn crowded...

Paul -

My main problem with Obama is that he's a blasted weathervane. People look up, see him pointing the direction they want, and figure he'll STAY pointing that direction - but when circumstances change, so does the direction he points.

Obama doesn't seem to have a conviction he'll stand on, which is fine if you're looking for votes since you can pander to everyone all the time. But for governing a city, a state - a country? He doesn't have any experience to speak of... but he's got people believing it doesn't matter.

What if he gets into office? What if he runs into situations where he absolutely MUST make hard policy decisions and then stick with them, or the results will be really bad? Can he do it?

You're a business owner. Would you hire someone as a bookstore manager who had no retail experience whatsoever? No idea how to manage and schedule the workers, no idea how to receive and return books or even run a cash register?

Would you hire Obama to run a TV shop? Or manage your properties?

If you were hiring him to manage a business - how many people would you trust him to manage?

Never thought I'd say this - but he's looking worse than Jimmy Carter. Carter may have been (and still is, in my opinion) wrong on a lot of stuff, but he stood by his convictions.

Obama's? Well, they're blowin' in the wind...

But if voters worr... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
But if voters worry about other issues such as the economy, high energy prices, diplomacy and sanctions over armed conflict with Iran and North Korea, etc.,

Well I don't see where any of Obama's ideas for the economy or high energy prices are as good as what McCain is promoting. On energy Obama is flat wrong when he says domestic drilling won't have an impact on oil prices. That's the same failed policy democrats have been promoting for 30 years and it's time for change.

The high price of oil is not due to current supply and demand as there's a surplus of supply right now. The high price of oil is due to the future supply and demand equation based on the perception that demand will outgrow supply. The way to break that perception is for the US to do everything it can to produce more and use less energy. That means we drill wherever there's oil and gas, we build nuclear plants and open Yucca mountain, we promote wind, solar, clean coal, and geothermal. We fund a massive research effort into the next generation of battery technology so that truly practical electric and plugable hybrid vehicles can be brought to market. The US can invent and export oil replacement technology to the entire world.

What this says to the markets and to oil exporting nations is that the demand for oil will decline, and they are going to get caught with billions of barrels of the stuff still in the ground with little market for it. Guess what, they will start pumping it as fast as they can as soon as the perception changes and that will bring prices down. The challenge then will be not to fall back into the cheap oil trap. We may need to tax oil to keep it's price high just as they do in Europe.

It's McCain who's currently running ads for energy independence and before election day I predict so will weathervane Obama.

Jay, on the surfac... (Below threshold)
Jay, on the surface there appears to be some serious contradictions here.

Yeah, deep down, too.

The general public has N... (Below threshold)
Clay:

The general public has NEVER had access to Kerry's full military record,

Yep. That's what I was attempting to say, but did so poorly (the doctor prescribed some very good drugs this time). It doesn't matter now because I'm banned from Blue. It doesn't take much does it? Sheesh, what a sensitive, er, pillow-biter.

Meanwhile over at Blue:... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Meanwhile over at Blue:

coolio: Looks like you put up Lee and the other idiot shut up. Nice job.

Me: Of course he "shut up"...by being banned. That's like winning a debate by shooting your opposition. Yay, you win. (rolls eyes)
Ban me, if you wish, I don't give a damn.

Thanks for not linking the ... (Below threshold)
epador:

Thanks for not linking the GE kid video WITH subtitles. Its much better without. Now if we could only get Lee to post in German...

Mac -"It's McCain ... (Below threshold)

Mac -

"It's McCain who's currently running ads for energy independence and before election day I predict so will weathervane Obama."

I believe you're right. Of course, he'll kick and scream about how it won't help immediately so we shouldn't be drilling - but damn, aren't we STILL going to need oil in 3-5-7-10 years? Yeah, it'll take time to get it to market - but so what? That's been the mantra for the last 30 years, 'it'll take too long!" Well, here we are 30 years down the road and we need the stuff they refused to chase after 20 and 10 years back.

I swear, there's some politicians who would love to see a feudal culture return - with them as the lords, and all the rest of us as peons who provide them with what they consider their due... and they see jacking up the price of oil to a point only THEY can afford it as the way to get what they deserve.

Jay, I can understand your ... (Below threshold)
Wanderlust:

Jay, I can understand your feeling a need to vent. Personally I've given up on trying to comment on anything that Lee spews out as "logic". I've also had some of my comments summarily deleted from the Blue blog for no other reason than Lee being unable to respond to the points I made at the time.

What's amusing to me about the 527 groups issue is twofold. First, oddly enough, Dems whine about Republican/Conservative 527 groups while conveniently ignoring the scope and funding levels of groups aligned to their own causes. Statistically their complaints are analogous to Goliath bitching that David happened to be good at slinging stones while ignoring Goliath's size, personal armorment, and weaponry (as I recall, Goliath's spear was huge). To his credit, McCain has attempted to stay out of the 527 fray. Seems like Obama hasn't had a thing to say to MoveOn.Org about their blatantly dishonest "you can't have my infant" ad that aired recently.

Second, the mere existence of 527 groups at all is a tacit acknowledgement that governmental control on private political funding doesn't work. The same people who whined about so-called "special interest" groups allowed the creation of 527's. And don't even get me started on the Left's blatant use of minority (mainly Black) religious groups for political purposes.

Additionally, any charges by Dems of Republican 527 shennanigans should immediately fall flat as long as Dems benefit from billionaire George Soros' massive investments in political ads, as his publicly stated purpose for making those contributions is to destabilize the Bush administration. Hypocrisy, thy name is Soros.

Whether ads (and their claims) are placed by the political party or private groups isn't the issue. IMHO, the issue is that Governmental attempts to control political funding, aside from standard governance issues (e.g., making false claims against candidates or false claims on sponsorship of ads) is doomed to fail, not withstanding all the potential infringement of free speech issues that go with it. Indeed, if McCain runs into trouble during the general election cycle, his own involvement in McCain-Feingold legislation will be responsible for some of the consequences to his campaign.

Meanwhile I consider Lee Ward to have as much intellect and debate depth as Oliver Willis, Andrew Sullivan, and Kos. Which is to say, not enough to engage in any discussion beyond emotions and recycled partisan talking points.

Now if only the Republican Party had a pair in this election, and if only McCain wasn't so blatantly in love with Shamnesty and Global Warming, we'd have a good one.

But then again, we haven't had a good election since 1984.

Compare and contrast Barack Obama's opening ad (which focused all on himself) vs. "Morning in America" back in 1984. You'll see just how far we have fallen.

The 527's can't ev... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:
The 527's can't even get their stories straight and often contradict each other.

Ahhhhh ... that brings back memories of 2004.

As a resident of the battleground state of Ohio, I would often see ad after ad after ad from 527's against Bush and they seldom agreed with one another factually. One would proclaim a that Haliburton had stolen "X" billion while the next would claim the number was "Y" billion, for example.

My favorites were the ones that used Hailiburton's own numbers as the source to attempt to prove their point that Haliburton couldn't be trusted.

It was not uncommon to see 6-8 ads consecutively from different 527's.

This rule -- which I pretty much proposed -- was because I get along fine with three of the authors there.

And that's the saddest part of the failed experiment of Wizbang Blue. Lee's actions in banning anyone who disagrees in the slightest with him significantly reduces the number of people who can respond to the other authors as well - and probably the number of people who will even read what they take a great deal ot time to prepare.

But it's a classic example ... (Below threshold)

But it's a classic example of the Progressive mindset, OhioVoter. Disagreement or dissent is NOT tolerated, and must be stopped however possible.

Think of Lee getting into power. How long before the first gulag is up and running and 'enemies of the state' are being shipped there wholesale?

And that's the sad... (Below threshold)
And that's the saddest part of the failed experiment of Wizbang Blue. Lee's actions in banning anyone who disagrees in the slightest with him significantly reduces the number of people who can respond to the other authors as well

It's amusing to me how "progressives" like to set up these totalitarian thug regimes whenever they can. Wizbang is a pretty tolerant place, as evidenced by Kevin giving the progressives their own playground on his site, a playground that, apparently, has turned into a miniature version of dailyKos with no dissent tolerated.

I just wonder of Wizbang Blue is actually a demonstration by Kevin on how "progressives" operate when given free reign.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if Kevin modified the experiment so that they couldn't ban people over on Blue without an appeal to the authorities, in other words, they would be forced to live under the rules that Kevin runs the rest of Wizbang on, that is, only the most egregrious trolls get banned. I wounder how many "progressives" would stick around under those terms?

A possible correction, Oreg... (Below threshold)

A possible correction, Oregon: I believe I am the one who does most -- if not all -- of the banning around here.

I don't have it straight from Kevin, but I do know that I am the only one who publicly announces bannings (and reasons thereof), and I've never gotten an e-mail appeal from someone over a banning that I didn't impose myself. Comment removal, editing, and disemvoweling, yes, I've gotten those complaints, but never over a ban.

I am equally proud of the people I have banned and the ones I have not. I don't regret a single decision I have made in that regard, in either direction.

But yeah, it would be a fun experiment.

J.

It does say something that ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

It does say something that I've been banned from WizbangBlue, but not from Wizbang.

Mantis, if I had my druther... (Below threshold)

Mantis, if I had my druthers, you'd either be writing for Wizbang, or running Blue.

Either way, we'd have some EPIC arguments.

J.

Nothing is worse to a zealo... (Below threshold)
SCSIwuzzy:

Nothing is worse to a zealot than a perceived apostate, Mantis.
That, or the fact that Lee knows deep down you would have never gone to the prom with him.

Wow, mantis, you got... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Wow, mantis, you got banned at Blue?

Yeah, I mocked Lee a bit to... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Yeah, I mocked Lee a bit too mercilessly as he fell for every ridiculous story about Obama he could find, including, hilariously, a parody video that an internet comedian put up (note to Lee, when you change the headline it creates a new post, but you really should delete the old one, as it's still indexed by Google. Dumbass).

Jay, if I had the time I would love to, but nowadays I'm barely able to read and comment, except the occasional drive-by.

Looks like I've been banned... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Looks like I've been banned at the Blue also. Man, that Lee just doesn't like having his reality even questioned, does he?

The real fun is in the numb... (Below threshold)

The real fun is in the numbers:

# of comments on Mr. Ward's initial posting: 28.
# of comments by Mr. Ward himself: 10

# of comments on my response to his posting: 50
# of comments by me: 5

Number of different commenters:
Mr. Ward's piece: 8 (most of whom got banned, I'm sure)
Mine: 27 (no bannings resulting)

# of commenters Mr. Ward was kind to: 0
# of commenters I cussed out and yelled at: 1 (but I think Hooson will get over it)
# of commenters I proclaimed my "guy love" for: 1

All in all, I think this is a happier place. And I like it that way.

J.

It's his way or the highway... (Below threshold)

It's his way or the highway, Jay. I thought I was getting along fairly well with him, too. (Of course, agreeing with him on Obama's unsuitability when he was supporting Hillary didn't hurt.) But I must have said one too many things he couldn't stand...

Well, I was spending too much time crafting replies to him anyway.

The porn spam post on the C... (Below threshold)
OhioVoter:

The porn spam post on the Christopher Hitchens/waterboarding story at Wizbang Blue seems to be lasting longer than posters who disagree with Lee. ;-)




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