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Obama: America sucks, unless you elect me President

Isn't that just the message you want him telling your seven-year-old when she asks him why he wants to be President? In Elkhart, Indiana, that's the question that was posed to Barack Obama. And here's what he answered:

Transcript:

America, uh, is... is no longer... uh... what it, it could be, what it once was. And I say to myself, I don't want that future for my children.

It amazes me still that someone who as accomplished as much as Barack Obama has could look at the country that made it possible and see something so bleak. Is America perfect? No, and no one says that it is. However, America is still the freest, most generous country in the world. It is the last, best hope for mankind. And it is a country where you can accomplish anything, if you're willing to work hard enough and have the determination and resilience to overcome the obstacles that will be in your path. Has racism and sexism been eradicated? No, and to be completely honest, it probably never will be. There are always going to be sexist and racist jerks, no matter where you live. The majority of Americans, however, are tolerant, open-minded people who accept people from all walks of life if they are good and decent people. America has fought and sacrificed for the freedom of mankind, most notably in the last century. We've saved the world, literally, twice from the forces of evil in World Wars One and Two. We've overturned dictators and brought down genocidal maniacs.

Yet none of this matters to Obama. Why? Why is it that the man who runs on a message of "hope" preaching such a message of despair?

It's because he is supposed to be your hope. He is supposed to be your savior. You aren't supposed to look around at your country and feel pride; you're supposed to feel shame and despair so that you can follow Obama to the promised land. America sucks, unless we elect Obama President. America is racist, unless you elect Obama President. America is mean, unless we elect Obama President.

Is this really what we need in the White House? A man who sees himself as our personal saviour, who looks at his country and can see only negative? It certainly isn't what I would want. Loving your country means being willing to admit our failures, but it also means feeling pride in our successes. Yet, with Obama, it's all failure... and no success.

Hat Tip: Hot Air


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Comments (126)

Gee, I swear that sounds li... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Gee, I swear that sounds like someone else. Hmmm, he was probably just some America hater too.

It bears repeating: He said... (Below threshold)

It bears repeating: He said this to a 7-year old.

God knows what he tells his own children.

<a href="http://www.lastday... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Another one! The gall of those fellas, eh? Didn't they know America was already great? What a couple of messiah-complex traitors.

Oh, and here's a juicy quot... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Oh, and here's a juicy quote from some America-hating jerk's speech at his party's convention:

For those who have abandoned hope, we'll restore hope and we'll welcome them into a great national crusade to make America great again!

Hope! What an egomaniac celebrity!

Gee, I swear that sounds... (Below threshold)

Gee, I swear that sounds like someone else. Hmmm, he was probably just some America hater too.

The stumbling, halting and confused nonsense muttered by Obama sounded nothing like what a confident Reagan said or stood for when he spoke of America.

All evidence to the contrar... (Below threshold)
mantis:

All evidence to the contrary. Nice try, chuckles.

ANY candidate should be abl... (Below threshold)

ANY candidate should be able to answer the question this way:

Little girl: Senator Obama, why do you want to be President?

Obama: Because I love my country and I want to serve it in the greatest way possible, sweetheart.


That took me all of 2 seconds to figure out.
And I'm not even running for office (thankfully).

All evidence to the cont... (Below threshold)

All evidence to the contrary. Nice try, chuckles.

Au contraire, mon ami. Your evidence is from speeches and election paraphernalia and, yes, it that way, the two share a similar message. However, we're not talking about speeches and buttons, now are we? Nope, that's not the issue. The issue is an off-the-cuff, scatterbrained response to a little girl about how America is "no longer...uh, what it, it could be".

Again, it's a simple question and he FUBAR'ed it.

"It's because he is suppose... (Below threshold)
Wordygirl:

"It's because he is supposed to be your hope. He is supposed to be your savior. You aren't supposed to look around at your country and feel pride; you're supposed to feel shame and despair so that you can follow Obama to the promised land."

This is his entire campaign in a nutshell. Well put.

Is there any article... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Is there any article at Wizbang that can be discussed civilly by Lefties in the comments section, or do they all have to keep changing the subject?
Look over there! Something shiny!

I just want you to know tha... (Below threshold)

I just want you to know that your country sucks but I'm gonna fix it honey. However if I lose there is no hope for America. Barack Obama.

http://www.thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/

The difference is what is m... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

The difference is what is meant by 'great'. Something tells me its not the same thing.

It would be nice if Obama quit stealing from recent campaigns. He's lifted heavily from the Clintons, a lot. Everything from 'I feel your pain' to the $1000 "elect me" bribe.

Now he's stealing Reagan's renewal theme.

How can something be no lon... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

How can something be no longer what it could be? To say something could be means it is yet to be attained. To no longer be something that has not yet been attained is comming from a man who was educated at the best colleges that country has to offer. I would like to think a "law professor" would be capable of more better language. Kind of like B. Hussein hisself. He is no longer what he could be.

Funny, haven't the leftoids... (Below threshold)
marc:

Funny, haven't the leftoids spent the last 7 years railing against the same type of bumbling answers given by Bush?

Right mantis?

Gee, I swear that sou... (Below threshold)

Gee, I swear that sounds like someone else.

I agree mantis. This was Obama's Roger Mudd Moment and he fumbled it just like Kennedy did. But Mudd was a seasoned broadcaster and Kennedy had no chance, right? Obama and a seven year old.....?

"Obama: America sucks, unle... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"Obama: America sucks, unless you elect me President"

You got that right, ObamaMessiah. That's why I'm out of here if the Democrats get Diebolded again. Toronto, you lovely city, I may be seeing you soon!!!

I think I know why Obama is... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

I think I know why Obama is in politics. With statements such as that one, his career as an attorney would not be very lucrative. To say the nation is not what it once was is a no brainer. We used to have slave states and free states. That change to what is it today is a good thing. America used to be a place where most of what you earned, you got to keep. Obama just does not make sense for America. Where is it in the world Obama wants his kinds to grow up. Kenya?

That's why I'm out of he... (Below threshold)

That's why I'm out of here if the Democrats get Diebolded again.

Another empty Democratic promise.

That's why I'm out of... (Below threshold)

That's why I'm out of here if the Democrats get Diebolded again.

I'll pay for the cab to the bus station Herman. Plus tip.

He couldn't say one friggin... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

He couldn't say one friggin' good thing about the country he wants to be president of? Or, maybe that teleprompter wasn't working again... He can't be that lost without a prearranged question agenda. (Yes! He can!)

The narrator said he wanted to talk about the oil crisis and all it takes is a small child to throw him a curveball. Someone said this earlier, only paraphrased: I hopey he changey! Quick!

I do believe I've heard a... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:

I do believe I've heard about all of this "America sucks" shit that I care to.

This country is the STANDARD--the rest of the world can only seek to emulate us. It's sickening that the purported route to political power is to denigrate the very coubtry you live in. I believe in this country, and it's innate goodness-seen it first hand.
For those who can't see it's worth,or refuse to, I suggest that you find another locale to vent your disillusionment in.I'm tired of listening to your drivel, and I'll gladly donate the first $20 for an appropriate exit strategy.

Funny isn't it? How it alwa... (Below threshold)
biggyrat Author Profile Page:

Funny isn't it? How it always seems to be children who expose the fraud? Often without even being concious of doing so. This was an emporer has no clothes moment if ever I saw one. Or perhaps a clothes has no emporer moment, seeing as the big o is such an empty suit?

Any chance that 7-year-old ... (Below threshold)
Bird:

Any chance that 7-year-old can get the nomination? She's quicker on the fly, and I'd feel better. Oh, damn that constitutional 35-year-old requirement. Oh well.

Is there any article at ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Is there any article at Wizbang that can be discussed civilly by Lefties in the comments section, or do they all have to keep changing the subject?

The subject was changed in the very title of this post. Nowhere in Obama's quote does he suggest that "America sucks", nor that he sees "something so bleak" in America, nor that he is "preaching a message of despair".

It's you who are projecting your disdain onto his words.

mantis, remember who Reagan... (Below threshold)

mantis, remember who Reagan was running against: the utter failure, Jimmy Carter. And it was Carter who went all negative while he was President, and taking the country down the toilet. Reagan was making positive responses to Carter's negative portrayal of the country he was supposed to be leading.

Reagan was making positi... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Reagan was making positive responses to Carter's negative portrayal of the country he was supposed to be leading.

The way to make a "positive response" to someone who is portraying something as negative that you believe is not negative is to say "no it isn't". Not "we can make it positive again".

Brian, you dolt, explain wh... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Brian, you dolt, explain what America is no longer what it could be, or once was. What the f**k does that mean? How can something be what it no longer could be. If it never was, because it could be than its still not. What America is, is a free society, not a socialist state which is what Obama would like. If someone breaks into your house to steal your money to buy food for his family, it is a crime. Please explain why it is ok for the Government to do the same thing.

The way to make a "po... (Below threshold)

The way to make a "positive response" to someone who is portraying something as negative that you believe is not negative is to say "no it isn't". Not "we can make it positive again".

Can you diagram that sentence for me?

Brian, you dolt, explain... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Brian, you dolt, explain what America is no longer what it could be, or once was. What the f**k does that mean?

It's pretty simple English. Let's say you used to be fastest runner in your therapy group, and then you gained 20 lbs. and slowed down. Then you are no longer what you could be (if you lost the weight again), or once were.

Or as another example, if in 1999 70% of the people thought the country was going in the right direction, and today only 18% do... well, you figure it out.

Herman, you can sleep on my... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Herman, you can sleep on my couch for a couple of days, and I'll show you where to get cheap a) hummus, b) sunglasses, c) pot, and d) sweaters. That's pretty much the entire naturalization process.

Can you diagram that sen... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Can you diagram that sentence for me?

Sure.

'For the first time in my a... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

'For the first time in my adult life, I'm really proud of this shitty little country that obviously has been waiting to vote for me.
Of course, if it doesn't; then it's just a shitty little racist country. And not the good Get-Whitey-Amerikkka kind of racism, I mean the bad kind of racism.
I get a shiver up my leg just thinking of what a swell guy I am for deigning to save you bitter bible & boomstick clingers. '

-Brocko

"That's why I'm out of h... (Below threshold)

"That's why I'm out of here if the Democrats get Diebolded again. Toronto, you lovely city, I may be seeing you soon!!!"

Herman, you forgot to take your pills again. You know you start hallucinating when you've forgotten them. It'll be OK, just relax. Just don't forget your drool cup on your way to Toronto, buddy. ;-)

Herman, you can sleep on... (Below threshold)
George Costanza:

Herman, you can sleep on my couch for a couple of days, and I'll show you where to get cheap a) hummus, b) sunglasses, c) pot, and d) sweaters. That's pretty much the entire naturalization process.

Sounds like a date...not that there's anything wrong with that.

"Or as another example, ... (Below threshold)

"Or as another example, if in 1999 70% of the people thought the country was going in the right direction, and today only 18% do... well, you figure it out."

OK. Approval ratings for the Democrat-led Congress are worse than the President's. Gee. I wonder who the country is more disappointed with...?

"Herman, you can sleep o... (Below threshold)

"Herman, you can sleep on my couch for a couple of days, and I'll show you where to get cheap a) hummus, b) sunglasses, c) pot, and d) sweaters. That's pretty much the entire naturalization process."

LOL! That was a funny comment; and option c) explains exactly why you were so confused about economics and socialists in the other thread. ;-)

The diagram looks more like... (Below threshold)

The diagram looks more like this, brian;

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

Humpty Obamadumpty falling off the wall in slow motion. And there is nothing the MSM's horses and men can do about it, particularly when he can't articulate a canned campaign response in the presence of a seven year old without a teleprompter. As I said earlier, it was a Mudd moment and he will wear it through November.

Brian, and you truly are a ... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Brian, and you truly are a dolt. If your are not any longer, it is not what you could be but what you once were. My God, do you have any understanding of what language is? My grammar is not world class, but something that could be is not attained yet. Obama is no longer what he could be. A crack smoking community organizer who would aspire to the Presidency. Bon Chance'

What does it say that congr... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

What does it say that congressional Republicans stand to lose votes with the Democrats polling so poorly? The evidence is clear: people who are disappointed in their country hate their government! Somebody write that down.

Hugh--McCain's campaign is worse! (Seems childish, but what more needs saying?)

Now where's that Bob Marley nesting doll that I hide my weed in?

Crack smoking? I've heard c... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Crack smoking? I've heard cocaine, but crack? A link, perchance?

Its these kind of stupid co... (Below threshold)
Michael:

Its these kind of stupid comments that have led to the Dems losing 7 out of the last 10 elections. Thank god for their arrogant stupidity!

Hugh--McCain's campai... (Below threshold)

Hugh--McCain's campaign is worse!

No argument here, HB. The Democrats could have run Biden, Clinton, Dodd (yes, Dodd)...almost any Democrat and they would have been ahead by wide margins.

McCain is a famous over achiever...and Obama ignores that to his political peril.

Brian, and you truly are... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Brian, and you truly are a dolt.

Your definition of "dolt" must be "someone who understands English better than you do". Keep making yourself look foolish, and I'll keep responding and helping you.

If your are not any longer, it is not what you could be but what you once were.

As I pointed out in my very simple (but apparently not enough) example using your therapy group, you can "not any longer" be something that you also "could be" again. Is that really too hard for you to understand?

If you were rich and lost all your money, would you say that you never "could be" rich again because you "are no longer" rich?

My grammar is not world class

That much is clear.

Crack smoking? I've h... (Below threshold)

Crack smoking? I've heard cocaine, but crack? A link, perchance?

A trick question?

How can something be no ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

How can something be no longer what it could be? To say something could be means it is yet to be attained.

He is simply using the past presumptive progressive tense, get with the New Grammar, Zel! I mean, google Dr. Dan Streetmentioner before you comment!

:)

You know who else complaine... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

You know who else complained that the country was "not what it was"?

John Wilkes Booth.

How's that for a comparison, mantis?

"Herman, you can sleep on m... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"Herman, you can sleep on my couch for a couple of days, and I'll show you where to get cheap a) hummus, b) sunglasses, c) pot, and d) sweaters. That's pretty much the entire naturalization process." -- hyperbolist

Thanks a LOT, hyperbolist, you are so kind!!! And I'll be sure to bring some pepper for the hummus (tastes better when spicy).

By the way, mantis, since y... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

By the way, mantis, since you decided to pick and choose from Jonah Goldberg's column (because I know that's where you lifted this tidbit from), allow me to address precisely what Reagan was talking about in that little snippet (from the same speech:)

The major issue of this campaign is the direct political, personal and moral responsibility of Democratic Party leadership --i n the White House and in Congress -- for this unprecedented calamity which has befallen us. They tell us they have done the most that humanly could be done. They say that the United States has had its day in the sun; that our nation has passed its zenith. Theyexpect you to tell your children that the American people no longer have the will to cope with their problems; that the future will be one of sacrifice and few opportunities.

My fellow citizens, I utterly reject that view. The American people, the most generous on earth, who created the highest standard of living, are not going to accept the notion that we can only make a better world for others by moving backwards ourselves. Those who believe we can have no business leading the nation.

I will not stand by and watch this great country destroy itself under mediocre leadership that drifts from one crisis to the next, eroding our national will and purpose. We have come together here because the American people deserve better from those to whom they entrust our nation's highest offices, and we stand united in our resolve to do something about it.

1980 acceptance speech, GOP Convention

As you see, The "those who abandon hope" was not a reference to the populous at large, but rather to the leadership at the time, i.e. the Democrats, and specifically, Jimmy "The Sweater" Carter.

Context is obviously not your friend, today.

The way to make a "posit... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

The way to make a "positive response" to someone who is portraying something as negative that you believe is not negative is to say "no it isn't". Not "we can make it positive again".

Which, if you look at the above speech except, he catagorically does. I believe "I utterly reject that view" to be pretty much the "no it isn't" you so desperately seek.

"I'll pay for the cab to th... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"I'll pay for the cab to the bus station Herman. Plus tip." -- HughS.

I'll keep that in mind.

Can you diagram that sen... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Can you diagram that sentence for me?

Well...
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.

That pretty clear? :)

I'll keep that in mind.<... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

I'll keep that in mind.

Don't overtax that medulla oblongata of yours, Herman, you might go all apoplexic.

Brian, you dolt, explain... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Brian, you dolt, explain what America is no longer what it could be, or once was. What the f**k does that mean?

It's pretty simple English.

If it took you two paragraphs to explain it, it's not that simple.

Fine, then; America "could have been" a authoritarian dictatorial one-man show, like in North Korea, but no longer will be.

Or: America "once was" a slave-abusing nation, but no longer is.

Gee, playing with grammar is fun! So is abusing Obama's tortured verbal ejaculations. Face it, you guys, you now have in your Democratic camp a person who far worse at public speaking than Bush.

And that really pisses you off.

Word of the day: schadenfreude.

Fine, then; America "cou... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Fine, then; America "could have been" a authoritarian dictatorial one-man show, like in North Korea, but no longer will be.

Oh, and save the utterly predicable and excessively dishonest hyperbole "Well, it already is with Bush!" You only have a 100+ days left to wring out that tired, played-out nonsense.

I'll keep that in mind.<... (Below threshold)

I'll keep that in mind.

If you had one, that is. Try your pocket instead. The lint will think its seeing its twin for the first time.

Which, if you look at th... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Which, if you look at the above speech except, he catagorically does. I believe "I utterly reject that view" to be pretty much the "no it isn't" you so desperately seek.

Wow, way to come in, take my comment to another post out of context, paste it into yours, and get all smug on us. Context is obviously not your friend today.

take my comment to anoth... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

take my comment to another post out of context, paste it into yours, and get all smug on us.

Hey, you said you have to say "no it isn't"...Reagan did. Not only that, he followed it up with a list on how "we can make it positive again".

You got two for the price of one. So, yes, I can get all smug on you.

And if you want specific ex... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

And if you want specific examples of "no it isn't" followed by "we can make it positive", and you can't be bothered to google the speech, I'm sure I or someone else will happily cut-and-paste a good chunk of it.

Meanwhile, learn to be more coherent in your claims, and try to cut down on your run-on, copula-filled paragraphs.

Thanks a bunch!

It's pretty simple Engli... (Below threshold)
Brian:

It's pretty simple English.
If it took you two paragraphs to explain it, it's not that simple.

No, it's very simple. It's just that it takes more effort to explain things to a moron.

Fine, then; America "could have been" a authoritarian dictatorial one-man show, like in North Korea, but no longer will be.... Gee, playing with grammar is fun!

Yes it is, especially when you need to misquote someone as a way counter them. Or do you need someone to explain the difference between "could be" and "could have been"? Sorry, one right-wing grammar moron is enough on this thread.

Oh, and feel free to advocate for your bizarre North Korea/slave vision of the future. Whatever that has to do with anything.

Oh, and save the utterly predicable and excessively dishonest hyperbole "Well, it already is with Bush!"

Ha! Hoisted by your own petard! Perhaps you should think twice before attempting to use wit in your posts. You're not very good at it.

Hey, you said you have t... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Hey, you said you have to say "no it isn't"...Reagan did.

Look, we know you took my comment on another post out of context. You don't have to keep reassuring us that you did by pretending I was responding to Reagan's speech. Or are you not pretending, and just too dense or disingenuous to realize it?

And if you want specific examples of "no it isn't" followed by "we can make it positive",

OK, OK, enough already! It's clear you have no comprehension of the topic you tried to copy and paste yourself into! You don't have to keep driving that point home!

No, it's very simple. It... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

No, it's very simple. It's just that it takes more effort to explain things to a moron.

Considering that you missed the entire point of Reagan's speech, I certainly understand that feeling...

Yes it is, especially when you need to misquote someone as a way counter them. Or do you need someone to explain the difference between "could be" and "could have been"? Sorry, one right-wing grammar moron is enough on this thread.

How can you misquote something that is cut and pasted directly from post #26, attributed to you, which states explicitly:

'The way to make a "positive response" to someone who is portraying something as negative that you believe is not negative is to say "no it isn't". Not "we can make it positive again".'

Furthermore, my #48 post was directed to mantis (as evidenced by the first sentence) and post #49 was directed to you. Most people with a modicum of reading skills could suss that one out.

Ha! Hoisted by your own petard! Perhaps you should think twice before attempting to use wit in your posts. You're not very good at it.

I could quote Inigo Montoya, but...

You are simply miffed that I took that particular rejoinder away from you before you could type it. You are very predictable, Brian, as many of the posters here have noticed and remarked upon.

Oh, and feel free to advocate for your bizarre North Korea/slave vision of the future. Whatever that has to do with anything.

Obviously, to everyone else, it has to do with defining "could be" to whatever suits the speaker.

Granted, this was a form of Reductio ad Absurdum, but I consider the whole premise of Obama's little answer to be ridiculous to begin with.

But poking your convoluted #26 post was rather fun. Have a great evening, and do get out the basement occassionally. Fresh air does wonders for the soul.

Face it, Hussein O is not a... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Face it, Hussein O is not a wonder boy. He is the typical black welfare rider. Give them everything in life and they become accustomed to the freebies and demand more freebies. One hundred and forty three years of freebies have resulted in another class of people know as free loaders. Hussein O is not 'post racial', he is one of the worst racist you will ever see in this country. He is worse than any known racist dictator to date, including the one who killed and ate his own people. A study at UC in 2004 found that 48% + of the people in this country needed mental health care. Want to hazard a guess as to who and where these people are today? Obamatron's.

Look, we know you took m... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Look, we know you took my comment on another post out of context. You don't have to keep reassuring us that you did by pretending I was responding to Reagan's speech. Or are you not pretending, and just too dense or disingenuous to realize it?

We can read, you know. YOU were commenting on the comparison of Reagan's quote with Obama's response. I addressed Mantis' Reagan snippet, and followed it with a response to your comment.

And you were responding to Reagan's speech because you pasted this above it:

Reagan was making positive responses to Carter's negative portrayal of the country he was supposed to be leading.

So, yes you were responding to the speech, or at the least, to a one-paragraph, out-of-context part of it, since that is where the #4 post quote came from, and the comments below that post were also refering to R. speech.


Brian, I don't post much here, but I have read many comments on here. This "I didn't actually say this, but in reality I did--Oh, look! Shiny thing!" pattern is a fairly known m.o. of yours around here, and I'm amused by it, but not fooled.

Sweet dreams.

This is such typical Americ... (Below threshold)
yossarianology:

This is such typical American dross! It is this very arrogance, this comletelty misguided notion that somehow America is the last bastion of free democratic society that makes the rest of the world cringe. It is obvious to those of us with the benefit of objectivity, as well as rational thinkers such as Obama that there is very little to be proud of about America right now, and that it is going to take some big changes to restore the country to a version of it's former glory. Obama was spot on with his answer, and the fact that he took time to give a considered answer to a serious question, rather than reel off a pre prepared soundbite and salute the flag, is more than enough for anyone to see that America cannot affort not to elect this man. The American dream is becoming a nightmare for too many people, and the sooner the country wakes up and realises it, the better

re yossarianology:... (Below threshold)
epador:

re yossarianology:

another pre-prepared snotbyte and ignition of the Flag demon-strating itself why we can not afford to elect BO.

...and that it is ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
...and that it is going to take some big changes to restore the country to a version of it's former glory.

Uh oh. Is that British projectile vomit I see flying through the air? The fortunate thing is the (smart) Brits know just how well you have described their own country, including most of western Europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA&feature=user

Wrong on all counts LaMedus... (Below threshold)
yossarianology:

Wrong on all counts LaMedusa. And the big difference is that for all their faults (which apply to most european countries), the last thing you would ever hear from the brits is that their country is "the last best hope for mankind". That takes a special type of arrogance to be able to say something like that, a brand of arrogance not often seen outside the states, and a brand of arrogance all too familiar with narrow minded rhetoric like yours. Fortunately i'll be vindicated this time around, because the morons on the right have gotten it so far wrong for so many years that the electorate can't bear any more of the same.

Listen, the lot of you.The ... (Below threshold)
Macsbeef:

Listen, the lot of you.The rest of the world does not see you as the free-est country in the world. You are no longer the standard. Your self-interest has become the main feature of your policy, and we no longer believe your story.You really need Obama, if only to break the cycle of your world disrupting interferences. Elect Obama, stay home and SHUT UP!

Macsbeef,I'll real... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

Macsbeef,

I'll really believe that you believe that, when the lines to emigrate from your country to the US become shorter than lines to emigrate from the US to your country.

jpm100That's an inte... (Below threshold)
Macsbeef:

jpm100
That's an interesting challenge! I wonder how we'd find some real figures. USians are not generally keen to emigrate any more than we Australians. We know we are onto a good thing.
You guys only think you are, because you still believe your own story. We have huge numbers wanting to come here. Yet many of the refugees who have been sent here have put USA as their choice, because they have no idea of what we have here. Our recent government has tried to follow your way, and are now in opposition. Isn't democracy great? By the way, you didn't invent it.

"I'll pay for the cab to th... (Below threshold)
Oyster:

"I'll pay for the cab to the bus station Herman. Plus tip."

Hell, I'll pay for the whole bus ride. One way ticket, of course.

According to Obama and his ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

According to Obama and his wife, America was never great. It was never something to be proud of. So, another lie by Obama. ww

Hey, did anybody read Scrap... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Hey, did anybody read Scrapiron's comment (#62)? I hate to keep picking on the guy (not really), but when are you guys going to denounce the lunatics in your midst? For ****'s sake, he said Obama is worse than a cannibalistic dictator!

So with unemployment at alm... (Below threshold)
Rance:

So with unemployment at almost 6%, record foreclosure rates, the biggest national debt in history, and thousands of job being lost to oversees, you all think that the country is everything it once was and that it's a great state to leave it in for your kids?

Did a mention a dollar that... (Below threshold)
Rance:

Did a mention a dollar that used to buy more than one euro will now buy 2/3 of a euro?

Unemployment is a problem, ... (Below threshold)

Unemployment is a problem, but by no means a crisies. We've seen much worse:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt

Record foreclosure rates is a bipartisan problem, and one of the results of record home ownership prior to the credit crisis.


National debt, relative to GDP (the only way to measure national debt) is not the greatest in the nation's history by a long shot.

Thousands of jobs are going overseas while thousands are being created here: the economy is still growing. GDP growth last quarter was double the prior quarter's growth.

The dollar would increase in value significantly if the US produced more energy domestically. Presently the US ships 700 billion dollars overseas every year for foreign oil. Drill here, drill now and the drop in the dollar will slow.

Wow! 7 booming years and Ra... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Wow! 7 booming years and Rance is stuck in the last few months. You lefties are starting to believe your own stories. ww

Hyppie (re 73):You... (Below threshold)
epador:

Hyppie (re 73):

Your concern ignores many past comments in other threads and multiple disemvowelments. Why not be kind and offer scrappy your couch and a bowl of your best? And shorten your name to conserve energy?

Did [I] mention a dollar... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Did [I] mention a dollar that used to buy more than one euro will now buy 2/3 of a euro?

There are two sides to that coin. Many manfacturers have felt the pressure to move their operations to low-cost regions. Those of us who have resisted the pressure have no found ourselves in the newest low-cost region - the U.S. And business is great. We have had two record quarters in a row, since our competition is manufacturing in Germany. They quote in euros and we quote in dollars. They are hurting, while we aren't.

I repeat: There is no recession, despite the media's efforts to --ahem-- manufacture one.

HughS,You made my ... (Below threshold)
Rance:

HughS,

You made my point.

YOu just agreed that the state of things in this country could be improved.

As far as the GDP growth, going t0 +1.9 from 0.9 which was up from -0.2, is that anything to crow about? Post 9/11 the quarterly growth has been as high as 7.5% so 1.9 really isn't that great.


Note: Those are the official Dept of Commerce figures.

Note 2: Over the past 50 years, there have been 108 quarters up, 101 quarters down over the previous quarter

WildWillie,Compare... (Below threshold)
Rance:

WildWillie,

Compare the current administration to the period when St. Ronald was in office, and then tell me how great a job this administration is doing with the economy.

and thousands of job bei... (Below threshold)
Clay:

and thousands of job being lost to oversees [sic]

Why do you suppose that is? If your answer is "greedy CEOs and shareholders", you are wrong. If your answer is "a bloated government that views corporations as cash cows", you win the cigar. Singapore and Hong Kong have the most free economies in the world, while we are number 5 and falling on the list.

Here's something else to think about: Do you think China's economic surge is attributed to their maintaining socialistic policies? Or is it because of an increasingly rapid adoption of capitalism? In spite of what you may say to the contrary, you know the answer.

Uhm... I am not a leftie by... (Below threshold)
Oleg:

Uhm... I am not a leftie by any means but I am growing increasingly tired of conservatives saying that any criticism of America is unpatriotic.

I want to see someone in the White House who can look at America with a critical eye and not some sort of a yes-man who thinks America is beyond reproach. Otherwise we are turning into some bizarre and twisted version of the Soviet Union.

Glad I made your point Ranc... (Below threshold)

Glad I made your point Rance...although stating the obvious isn't exactly resume material.

There is always room for improvement in the economy. Quarter to quarter GDP growth in middle of a severe credit crunch is significant. Excellent point on the post 9/11 GDP growth, which was the result of the Bush tax cuts that Obama wants to make "fair" by eliminating them.

Wrong on all count... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Wrong on all counts LaMedusa.

Tell that to Pat Condell, if you even bothered to listen to his views on the appeasement of Islam. This post is actually about the meme that seems to follow Barack all over the nation, and in other countries, as well. I am proud of the country I was born in. I say this in spite of the numerous economic problems and the controversies within the government that are facing it at this time. Why be president of a country you don't believe in? Is he campaigning or just taking advantage of free speech, one of the freedoms that has made this country great. He couldn't even exercise that speech eloquently to a seven year old girl.

And quoting a book title or Lincoln's concluding remarks by themselves as another way to diss the land we were born in, is just another cop out with catch phrases:

"The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just -- a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless."

Obama does not display himself as the man who will nobly save this "last best hope on earth".

yossarianology also says:</... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

yossarianology also says:

"Fortunately i'll be vindicated this time around, because the morons on the right have gotten it so far wrong for so many years that the electorate can't bear any more of the same."

Is that what this election is to you? All about you and your vindication? Now who is using arrogant narrow-minding rhetoric. If you see no reason in what one Brit says loud and clear, and cannot see what is happening in western Europe right now, then keep your head in the nearest sand pit and let America solve their problems the best way they know how. Problem solving in Europe doesn't seem to be a priority at this time.

"He is the typical black... (Below threshold)
MyPetGloat:

"He is the typical black welfare rider."

Now thats sophisticated- puts the ass back in classy.

Yeah, he's an idiot. I will... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Yeah, he's an idiot. I will say again that his comments are so stupid and offensive that he can only be a troll from some far-left cess pool trying to make people look stupid by association.

My point Rance, my man, is ... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

My point Rance, my man, is that the left is forever looking at the negative. They wallow in it. They want it. They cannot see anything good and positive. Except that you are positively negative. ww

Well, I haven't had time to... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Well, I haven't had time to read all the comments, but the gist of most responses seems to be "Reagan's hopey-changey message to restore America's greatness is different than Obama's hopey-changey message to restore America's greatness because Reagan's was in response to the eeeeevil Jimmy Carter and Obama's is in response to the glorious George W. Bush."

Thanks for the laugh, friends.

Mantis,How dare yo... (Below threshold)
Rance:

Mantis,

How dare you invoke the name of St. Ronald in the same sentence with those other pretenders!!!!

Money-double-plus, mantis.<... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Money-double-plus, mantis.

"Is this really what we ... (Below threshold)
MyPetGloat:

"Is this really what we need in the White House? A man who sees himself as our personal saviour, who looks at his country and can see only negative?

Yeah! Where does Obama get this nutty idea?

mantis/hyper/rance/MPG:... (Below threshold)

mantis/hyper/rance/MPG:

Reagan's hopey-change message was based on substance and backed up with results.

Unfortunately, Obama's hopey-change message promises to offer more of the same ideas as the Carter presidency, who had no substance and was backed up with terrible results.

I lived through the Carter years, and here's a small taste of what it was like. 444 days of hostages in Iran. Gas lines a mile long. Idiotic lectures about how we should keep our thermostats no higher than 68 degrees in the wintertime.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Oh! And how could I forget... (Below threshold)

Oh! And how could I forget the double-digit inflation rates from the Carter years?

Yeah, those were great times. I hope history won't repeat itself.

"He is the typical black we... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"He is the typical black welfare rider."

That sounds insulting.

Didn't Obama himself say "typical white person" (When describing his own Grandmother!)?

Was it wrong for Brocko to say that?

TomDon't forget the ... (Below threshold)

Tom
Don't forget the 18.5% prime rate.

Les: black people can gener... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Les: black people can generalize about white people more liberally than white people can about black people. Yeah, it sucks, I really wish I could say the word 'nigger' with impunity. It's a hard world in which to be a white man, ain't it!

That aside, Obama's generalization was pretty much innocuous, whereas Scrapiron's was not. When Scraptard sees a black person, he thinks "welfare rider". I know you know that's a shitty thing to say/think, so why don't you stop defending him with shoddy equivocation and let Scrapiron know that he's a fool and so far out of the mainstream as to be completely irrelevant in this day and age?

What Scrapiron said was ign... (Below threshold)

What Scrapiron said was ignorant, baseless and ugly racism. No excuse for it. None.

I only wish I had seen his post earlier in order to comment.

+1, Peter.... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

+1, Peter.

Peter F:Ditto. I ... (Below threshold)

Peter F:

Ditto. I never read what Scrapiron writes for this very reason.

Tom,Reiterating a ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Tom,

Reiterating a dumb argument doesn't make it less dumb. Historically, every non-incumbent running to succeed a president from the opposite party runs on a platform of change, hope, restoring America's greatness, etc., with the candidate promising to bring that change. The only exception in recent history is Bush 43, who couldn't run on that so much because Americans were generally pleased with how things had gone under Clinton (although he still did somewhat with the whole "restoring family values" bit). Nixon, McGovern, Carter, Reagan, Mondale, Dukakis, and Clinton all ran with a theme of "The other guy screwed this place up, and I'm going to make it great again."

But you guys all want to run around screaming that Obama is an egomaniac celebrity who thinks he's the messiah for doing basically what every other candidate in his position, Democratic or Republican, has done.

I lived through the Carter years

And we've all lived through the Bush years, and in case you haven't noticed most Americans are sick of those. Our choices, in the most superficial and shallow terms (what others are there in presidential politics?), are hopey-changey or more-of-the-same.

Btw, this is a great site for looking back at campaigns past. Streaming campaign ads going back as far as 1952.

Also, is it really necessar... (Below threshold)
mantis:

Also, is it really necessary to insist that commenters denounce the comments of another, even if they are on the same side of the fence, politically?

When I used to comment here more frequently, I would occasionally take a fellow lefty to task for stupid and/or offensive comments, but only occasionally. For the most part I would ignore those who displayed extreme stupidity in the past.

Blog comment sections are full of crazies, trolls, and flamers. Ignoring them is not an indication of approval, and no one is required to be watchdog over the other commenters. I can fake right-wing crazy (and left-wing crazy) of Scrapiron's variety pretty well. Under the assumption that other conservatives/Republicans here are responsible for denouncing such stupidity, I could tie up all their time by posting repeated nutso screeds, if I were so inclined.

If you think someone should be monitored or banned for their behavior, take it up with the site moderators, not the other commenters. We may be our brothers' keepers, but the internet is for the most part full of perfect strangers. Les, Tom, Peter, and the rest here are not responsible for Scrapiron, and if they ignore him, as I do, there's nothing wrong with it.

I guess my problem, mantis,... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I guess my problem, mantis, is the disemvowelment of liberal commenters for being annoying or rude or vulgar, but right-wing lunatics getting close to carte blanche from the moderators who read all of the comments.
depp=true
notiz=You mean like this? This is NOT a democracy.

I see your point, but it's ... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I see your point, but it's not the other commenters' responsibility, and I see the same selective moderation on liberal blogs as well.

Yeah, I know. I hate readin... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Yeah, I know. I hate reading comment threads on most liberal blogs too, for the same reason.

Totally off-topic, but the best comment threads are at The Onion's AV Club. Hipsters are funny.

Indeed. <a href="http://ww... (Below threshold)
mantis:
Love 'em. In a fair and dec... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Love 'em. In a fair and decent world, the author(s?) of that blog would be millionaires.

Remember the Keyboard Kommandos, posted at thepoorman.net (but now unavailable for some reason)? Man, them is some funny internetz.

"Reiterating a dumb argu... (Below threshold)

"Reiterating a dumb argument doesn't make it less dumb. Historically, every non-incumbent running to succeed a president from the opposite party runs on a platform of change, hope, restoring America's greatness, etc., with the candidate promising to bring that change."

Which is why we're criticizing the vacuous, hopey-change, nonsensical, Carter 2 bullshit Obama is selling. It's change I can't possibly believe in. Glad we agree that reiterating a dumb argument doesn't make it less dumb.

By the way, Carter's presidency was such a spectacular failure that he was blown away in a landslide when he went up for re-election (because of all that terrible baggage HughS and I pointed out before). Not a really good comparison when GWB is a 2-term president. I'm not all that happy with GWB either, but this country is in much, much better shape than it was in 1979. There's really no comparison to that, despite your desperate attempts to make it so.

That being said, thanks for the link to the elections past. ;-)

"This is NOT a democracy." ... (Below threshold)
max:

"This is NOT a democracy." - wizbang

Indeed, it is not. But that doesn't mean you can't be consistent in moderating the debate. If someone is out of line they should be banned regardless of their percieved political affiliation. The best thing about this site is that you can actually engage in a substantive debate with someone whose position is 180 degrees from your own. If the moderator weights commenters based on percieved political affiliation then the whole site loses credibility. We have no way of knowing if a comment was disemvowelled for a good reason, or whether the moderator simply didn't like the comment. It's really too bad because it puts wizbang at the same level as all the other political sites that are just echo chambers.

Watch this comment being removed in...3...2...1
depp=true
notiz=You win, Mr.Shortlist11

Who the hell said it's a de... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Who the hell said it's a democracy? If it was, I'd have been banned awhile ago. Don't see why we can't make suggestions, though. For instance, disemvoweling racist diatribe doesn't seem to be a lot to ask, insofar as you're keen on disemvoweling people for going off-topic or for swearing too much or mocking stupid people.

And we've all lived thro... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

And we've all lived through the Bush years, and in case you haven't noticed most Americans are sick of those.

Now, really, mantis. The same thing could be said of most 8-year term presidents (ahem--Bill Clinton).

Are you younger than 40? I would understand that you would not have a good reference point to compare Bush and Carter. Believe, the economic and world situation then and now are startlingly different. Startling.

The point has been made above, but the "hope/change" comparisons between the two are that RR offered solutions, and for the most part came through on them. Obama talks a bunch of empty feel-good rhetoric, but when you can nail him down on specifics (and they are few and far between) you find that his agenda is far more left-leaning and damaging to the economy than even Carter could conceive.

And, if anyone bothers to dig into his years as a Illinois ledgislator, you will find even more interesting insights.

I'm glad you could have a laugh, mantis. But while we can laugh at some of BHO antics, I shudder to think about what his policies (that he's so far announced) will do to the economy.

I suspect tax shelters will once again become de rigeur again for corporations if that happens...

But at least you are a bit more level-headed than some of the other left-leaning denziens of this blog.

Oh, and whoever the people are who've pushed my post scores into the positive double digits. Thanks for actually reading and comprehending.

That's an interesting ch... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

That's an interesting challenge! I wonder how we'd find some real figures. USians are not generally keen to emigrate any more than we Australians. We know we are onto a good thing.

Perhaps you do, but the rest of the world isn't exactly flocking to your shores. Don't get me wrong, I love Oz, but...

Well, MacBeef, you can start by perusing the World Migrant Stock figures at the U.N.:

esa.un.org/migration

You can browse by country, or perhaps we can look here, granted, it's from 2002, but that's during the evil Bush regime, and right after 9/11:

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/ittmig2002/press-release-eng.htm

Shall I point out the relevant quotes? Oh, indeed, let's...

Net migration -- The world's more developed regions gained an estimated 2.3 million migrants from the less developed regions, or nearly 12 million over the period 1995-2000. The largest gains were made by Northern America, which absorbed 1.4 million migrants annually, followed by Europe with an annual net gain of 0.8 million and by Oceania, with a net intake of 90,000 migrants annually.

And for those whose reading skills are substandard, or are simply impatient:

http://www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/charts/6.1.shtml
(from data at the first link I provided)

Guess who's at the top of the chart? Anyone? Beuler? Beuler?

Now that I've put up, you can kindly shut up, mate. :)

You guys only think you ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

You guys only think you are, because you still believe your own story. We have huge numbers wanting to come here. Yet many of the refugees who have been sent here have put USA as their choice, because they have no idea of what we have here.

I just had to repost Macsbeef's statement, given the data I provided above, just for amusement value.


Our recent government has tried to follow your way, and are now in opposition. Isn't democracy great? By the way, you didn't invent it.

No, but we have perfected it(or at least have come close to it).

Interesting graph, James (2... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Interesting graph, James (2nd one in #113), but it would be more interesting if it were relative to size of population. Canada would be far ahead: 1 in 5 vs. 1 in 8 (U.S.), or thereabouts.

By the way, Clinton was pop... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

By the way, Clinton was popular throughout his presidency, whereas Bush Jr. has been a lame duck since Katrina, so your comparison of the two is pretty funny.

Interesting graph, James... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

Interesting graph, James (2nd one in #113), but it would be more interesting if it were relative to size of population. Canada would be far ahead: 1 in 5 vs. 1 in 8 (U.S.), or thereabouts.

Perhaps, but irrelevant to the Macsbeef's claim. Relative to the size of population, I suppose I can make the same case that our murder crime rate, while not non-zero, is fairly low.

But again, Macsbeef is talking about absolutes here ("huge numbers", he says), not proportional figures.

By the way, Clinton was ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

By the way, Clinton was popular throughout his presidency, whereas Bush Jr. has been a lame duck since Katrina, so your comparison of the two is pretty funny.

So is your trying to tie lame-duck policies to one's popularity in the polls (depending on whose poll, and the sample pool, of course)

Popularity of the public > lame-duck effectiveness.

Lame-duck status simply means an official (esp. the president) in the final period of office, after the election of a successor: as a lame duck, the president had nothing to lose by approving the deal.

There are benefits to all presidents during lame-duck status. Not worrying about polls is one of them (unless, like Clinton, you are worried about your "legacy" building).

And frankly, most people remember of Clinton's lame-duck period are the some of his more notorious pardons he gave out.

That should have been:... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

That should have been:

Popularity (not equal to) lame-duck effectiveness.

Eh, this country is okay, b... (Below threshold)
brentstark86 Author Profile Page:

Eh, this country is okay, but it's not all that great. I'd much prefer to live in Holland or France, where I wouldn't have to worry about losing my health insurance and where I could get some decent vacation time. But I guess I can always console myself with all the imaginary freedoms I get to enjoy as an American.

brentstark86:Imagi... (Below threshold)

brentstark86:

Imaginary freedoms? Where do you nutballs come from? Health insurance and vacation time aren't rights, lunatic--they're benefits. Nobody is entitled to benefits. You're free to start your own business and dictate your own benefits, fool.

You're free to move to Holland or France. It's not one of those "imaginary freedoms" you're babbling about. Hell, if Oyster felt generous enough, I'm sure she'd foot your bill outta here, too.

You and Herman must be on the same meds. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I suggest you ask your doctor to increase the prescription strength.

Y'know, Brent does have a p... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Y'know, Brent does have a point: technological progress should be liberating us from work, not creating more of it. I don't have figures to support this, but I think it should be borne out by common sense: next to Koreans and Japanese, Americans work longer hours than any other first-world people, and get less vacation time too. Now there are a lot of good reasons to prefer living in the States over Western Europe, but the amount of leisure time they enjoy is pretty enviable.

But I guess I can ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
But I guess I can always console myself with all the imaginary freedoms I get to enjoy as an American.

Second biggest laugh for today. Gracias!

hyperbolist:I thin... (Below threshold)

hyperbolist:

I think you have a great point, and you put it into the proper context and perspective. It's an entirely different conversation altogether, and I definitely agree; technology actually does get more work accomplished, and the result is we do "more with less". Our culture is a lot different than the Europeans also, which has a huge impact on our leisure time.

European leisure time is enviable, but it does come with a few price tags.

Then again, I'm the exception to the rule here in the USA. My wife and I switched roles; she works full-time now and I stay home with the kids and go to school part-time. I'm changing careers from IT to Exercise Science and Sports Management. She works 5 minutes from home, so we both have more leisure time than most.

:-)

Tom--it would seem that you... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Tom--it would seem that you're one of the lucky few who have it figured out. Personally, I'd love to be a stay-at-home dad, but all of the women I mention it to assume that children are necessarily part of the deal. :)

hyperbolist:LOL!! ... (Below threshold)

hyperbolist:

LOL!! The trick is to convince them that you're practicing!




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