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Classless -- the Obama response to Palin

Obama's response to the Palin VP choice:

Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."

Especially classless after John McCain's classy congrats to Obama last night. And dumb. Yeah, that is exactly what they should be doing -- dissing not only a woman governor, but an entire small town. They open themselves up with this "zero foreign policy experience" stuff too, considering she has about as much as Obama does. Unless you count giving speeches in Germany as foreign policy experience, that is. Palin is the governor of a state bordered by two countries, Russia and Canada. That alone likely gives her more diplomacy experience than Obama and Biden combined. And judging from the way the two VP announcements were handled, who makes the stronger case for being in charge of protecting the nation's secrets? Heck, Palin's parents found out about the pick from Fox News. McCain's people kept a tight lid on this one, showing great control and restraint.

On the Democrat message boards and blogs I have heard a lot of people saying they can't wait until she has to debate Biden. They might want to be careful what they wish for. In my column at Townhall today I write about some examples of Biden's bad foreign policy judgment. Biden also has a horrible habit of exaggerating and boasting. How ridiculous is he going to look if he starts that up in the debate? And how will he resist since he will surely feel superior to the young, female Palin? The Obama people are surely upset that McCain upstaged them after their big night and I don't think they know much about Palin yet so they are flailing. This is getting really, really fun.

Update: Heh, VPILF.com.

Update II: Bob Owens points out some of the facts being left out of the attacks on Palin.

Update III: One commenter argues with my comment above about Palin having more foreign policy experience than Obama and more experience with diplomacy than Biden and Obama combined. If Obama has more foreign policy experience than her, then by all means share it with me. I know about that speech in Germany, but other than that I can't name anything, even after watching a week's worth of singing his praises. As for more experience with diplomacy, Biden is hardly known for being diplomatic. Do I need to pull out the list of undiplomatic Biden behavior?

Here is one of the several that I cite in my Townhall column linked in the post above (for those who didn't already bother to follow the link):

Michael Rubin -- "As Gen. David Petraeus struggled to unite Iraqis across the ethnic and sectarian divide, Iran's Press TV seized on Biden's plan for partitioning Iraq and featured his statements with the headline "US plans to disintegrate Iraq." Biden's attack-dog statements about U.S. policy failures emboldened Iranian hard-liners to defy diplomacy. In the Dec. 7, 2007, official sermon, Ayatollah Mohammad Kashani speaking on behalf of Iran's supreme leader, declared, "This Senator [Biden] correctly says Israel could not suppress Hizbullah in Lebanon, so how can the U.S. stand face-to-face with a nation of 70 million? This is the blessing of the Guardianship of the Jurists [the theocracy] . . . which plants such thoughts in the hearts of U.S. senators and forces them to make such confessions." The crowd met his statement with refrains of "Death to America."
On second thought, I guess Biden does have much more experience with diplomacy, he has just failed miserably at it.

Update IV:Jake Tapper: The Obama campaign's first impulse was... to attack Gov. Palin.

Update V: Melanie Morgan has a great roundup of liberal and conservative reaction to Palin. There are some liberals very unhappy with this choice -- some even saying this will win McCain the election, while others won't go that far, but it is clear this pick really bothers them:

Justin Hart has been compiling reaction....Here's Oliver Willis just now on Twitter:
"How many qualified and tested Republican women did McCain pass over for Sarah Palin? that's not change we can believe in."

(I replied: "Ha! How many qualified and tested women did Obama even vet!? Do you really want to head down this road? ")

Erick Erickson makes some great points -- Palin runs a state, Obama runs his mouth. Read it all.


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Comments (66)

I think some of the news wa... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

I think some of the news was trying to downplay the Palin announcement while basking in the afterglow of Obama's Greek Tragedy.

But the public reaction, judging from where I work, is that there's substantially more interest in this annoucement and they had to elevate coverage appropriately.

with zero foreign ... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:
with zero foreign policy experience

That's just it. How does an intellectually honest person argue that, on the basis of foreign policy experience, Palin isn't qualified for Vice-President at the same time arguing that Obama is qualified to be President.

The reaction of Obam... (Below threshold)
Larry:


The reaction of Obama's campaign has been that they are knocked off their feet. They are regurgitating their talking points, which go wide of the mark. In other words, they are striking out.

Now the Obamanauts are saying that Sarah Palin is NO Hillary Clinton and as part of the process are dredging up Republican comments on Obama, which is sorta stupid.

Anytime someone says "For the fact of the matter," they are usually about to lie. This also is a pause comment to allow thought. So far, Obamanauts are charging around trying to find something, anything, that will stick. And failing.

Sarah Palin is all about real change instead of the tired old Liberal Democratic stuff that has been retreaded since Carter. It is my belief that Obama talks the talk and Sarah Palin walks the walk. I am real happy about McCain's pick.

Larry Summers
Winters, TX

The Obama response is fasci... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

The Obama response is fascinating - bitter, juvenile, factually inaccurate, and emotional.

It tells me they are running spitless over Obamaland. It has just dawned on them that they could lose.

McCain's pick of Palin has ... (Below threshold)
Wordygirl:

McCain's pick of Palin has had a tremendous energizing effect already. I come from a family of strong, politically conservative females (five sisters and a mom) who have generally been luke-warm at best about McCain. Without exception, I've received calls from all of them this morning saying that now he definitely has their vote, and for the first time in their adult lives.... oh, wait, that's a different woman.

C'mon, Obama has plenty of ... (Below threshold)
Tim:

C'mon, Obama has plenty of foreign policy experience since Illinois shares a border with Canada. Or at least it's closer to Illinois than Kentucky.

Well, Palin needs to memori... (Below threshold)

Well, Palin needs to memorize this line for any debates with the gaffe-prone, exageration-prone Biden: "There you go again."

...a heartbeat awa... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
...a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Well, at least he got that part right. The rest of it sounds like a broken record. His speech writer must have had the day off.

Palin is the gover... (Below threshold)
tas:
Palin is the governor of a state bordered by two countries, Russia and Canada. That alone likely gives her more diplomacy experience than Obama and Biden combined.

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read in my entire life. Biden's been on the Senate Foreign Relations committee for how many decades? He's been on official visits to how many countries? He has how many powerful friends in the international community because of his years of experience? All of those questions are rhetorical, BTW. And you're trying to tell me that Palin, being governor of Alaska for a mere 18 months, has more foreign policy experience because it shares a border with Russia (it's a water border, BTW) and Canada? Are you f*cking kidding me?

You, Lorie, in the gold medal of the week in idiocy.

No, I didn't say more "fore... (Below threshold)

No, I didn't say more "foreign policy experience" than Biden. I was careful to say "diplomacy" and I stand by that. Biden is hardly known for his diplomacy. Do I really have to pull up all of his quotes again or can we at least agree on that?

As for more foreign policy ... (Below threshold)

As for more foreign policy experience than Obama, I base that statement on what I have seen after watching a week's worth of touting his great attributes. If he has any foreign policy experience please outline it. If he has any it would probably be a good idea to share that with voters.

Just talked to my parents a... (Below threshold)
Big Country:

Just talked to my parents and brother and sister in law... ALL hardcore Democrats... ALL now voting for McCain... They told me between 'Slow Joe' and the slap at Hillary that they now realize Mr Hopechangey is Morethesamey...

Well Virginia's Gov. Kaine ... (Below threshold)
Denise:

Well Virginia's Gov. Kaine said his state bordered Delaware - TWICE!!

Did Obama give some speech last night? With all this excitement about Palin; I haven't heard much.

Palin did go to Kuwait (and I think Iraq) because her son will deploy in a few weeks.

"Especially classless after... (Below threshold)
KeithK:

"Especially classless after John McCain's classy congrats to Obama last night."

I have to disagree with this point. I disagree with Obama on most substantive things. But this is just politics. In the Thursday video McCain said "we'll be back at it tomorrow" (or something to that effect). It's tomorrow so an attack from the Obama camp is hardly out of bounds or classless.

Obama doesn't even need to do the classy "historic moment" thing in response because of Geraldine Ferraro in '84.

McCain is so going to win. ... (Below threshold)
RogerCfromSD:

McCain is so going to win. At least poor Barack can finally pull of his Moderate mask and start getting down with the struggle, again.

I'll tell you it's a chuckl... (Below threshold)
JFO:

I'll tell you it's a chuckle to listen to these wingnuts go on and on about "foreign policy experience."

When George the Dunce first ran, when someone mentioned Europe he thought they were referring to Europa, his favorite topless bar when he was, ahem, on "active duty."

I provided a link to this i... (Below threshold)

I provided a link to this in the original post above -- a perfect example of Biden's powers of diplomacy:

Michael Rubin: "As Gen. David Petraeus struggled to unite Iraqis across the ethnic and sectarian divide, Iran's Press TV seized on Biden's plan for partitioning Iraq and featured his statements with the headline "US plans to disintegrate Iraq." Biden's attack-dog statements about U.S. policy failures emboldened Iranian hard-liners to defy diplomacy. In the Dec. 7, 2007, official sermon, Ayatollah Mohammad Kashani speaking on behalf of Iran's supreme leader, declared, "This Senator [Biden] correctly says Israel could not suppress Hizbullah in Lebanon, so how can the U.S. stand face-to-face with a nation of 70 million? This is the blessing of the Guardianship of the Jurists [the theocracy] . . . which plants such thoughts in the hearts of U.S. senators and forces them to make such confessions." The crowd met his statement with refrains of "Death to America.""

They weren't attacking the ... (Below threshold)
stagen:

They weren't attacking the town or the fact that shes is a women. How do you read that in the response? They are just stating that her experience as a major of a small town doesn't add up to enough experience possibly to be the VP.

"Today, John McCain put the... (Below threshold)
starboardhelm:

"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency."

What? Are they conceding already? Other indications Obama camp is throwing in the towel: Headlines calling Obama's speech his 'Grand Finale' . . . Picking Biden for VP so they have someone else to blame for the loss . . .

lorie-I am not being... (Below threshold)
Milton:

lorie-
I am not being facetious, but i am not sure i understand the point you are making with the blurb about biden and kashani. biden attacks bush foreign policy (presumably in america?) and then the iranians refer to his statements and then state their usual bellicose rhetoric. where's the diplomacy or lack of diplomacy?

simply making statements about foreign policy is not diplomacy. am i missing the wider context here? biden can criticize bush policy all he wants, but that may or may not have anything to do with diplomacy. were biden's alleged comments made in a diplomatic context, like a negotiation or something like that? if not, isn't it just biden shooting his mouth off, the iranians reading about it in the media and then commenting about it?

This was their response;</p... (Below threshold)
Consider this.:

This was their response;

"We send our congratulations to Governor Sarah Palin and her family on her designation as the republican nominee for Vice President," said the Democratic ticket in a joint statement. "It is yet another encouraging sign that old barriers are falling in our politics. While we obviously have differences over how best to lead this country forward Governor Palin is an admirable person and will add a compelling new voice to this campaign."

That was the statement they... (Below threshold)

That was the statement they released upon further reflection. The first response was the one from their spokesman Bill Burton, which I quoted in the post. Here is the story:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/the-obama-campa.html

Lorie, you are spot-on with... (Below threshold)
Kevin:

Lorie, you are spot-on with regard to Palin's and Biden's respective diplomatic and foreign policy experience.

If one were to look closely at Biden's foreign policy record, they would see failure after failure, wrong-headed positions galore and few if any successes. His resume reeks.

So, based on their respective accomplishments and cursory examination of their character, I'd put my money on Palin in a foreign policy situation over Biden. No question about it.

"In an interview just a mon... (Below threshold)
yes indeed:

"In an interview just a month ago, she dissed the job, saying it didn't seem "productive."

In fact, she said she didn't know what the vice president does. "

read more here;
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12969.html

So you've never said someth... (Below threshold)
big time:

So you've never said something, and then had to explain further once people jump to conclusions ?

I think their further response shows great tact.

Your just throwing it out?

Diolomacy and foreign polic... (Below threshold)
tas:

Diolomacy and foreign policy are pretty much the same thing. And Biden got an Iranian cleric to get people to shout "DEATH TO AMERICA!", ooooh -- Your heros Reagan and Dubya did the same thing numerous times and I don't see criticizing them.

So are you going to have an actual counterpoint or should I not bother coming back here today?

The Empty Suit from Chicago... (Below threshold)
Kevin H.:

The Empty Suit from Chicago and his Team were knocked flat by this hay-maker from the McCain Camp. When they were talking about "lack of foreign policy experience" I thought they were discussing Obama, until I heard Palin's name mentioned.

Other than being four more years of Jimmmy Carter's presidency, it has become quite clear that Obama is a pathological liar, making even Bill look like a choir boy. He is a product of the countries filthiest political machine, Daley's Chicago Mafia. Its to bad the mainstream media is so far in the tank for him. I'd love to see more of the skeletons in Obama's closet.

No they aren't the same. D... (Below threshold)

No they aren't the same. Diplomacy is one element of foreign policy. There are many ways to effect policy besides diplomacy. Read Rubin's full piece , linked in my original post, for the full story in context, but here is a bit more of it:

"As chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Biden is well versed in policy debates and carefully choreographed trips. But his record on the Islamic Republic of Iran -- perhaps the chief national security threat facing the next president -- suggests a persistent and dangerous judgment deficit. Biden's unyielding pursuit of "engagement" with Iran for more than a decade has made it easier for Tehran to pursue its nuclear program, while his partisan obsession with thwarting the Bush administration has led him to oppose tough sanctions against hard-liners in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard."

As I wrote in the update to the post, on second thought, Biden does have a lot of diplomacy experience, but much of it has been failed. I don't care what people were shouting, I care that a senior Senator told foreign nations that the U.S. President was lying and could not be trusted, when our government was trying to pursue diplomacy. That is what Dems have done for eight years -- told the world that Bush is a liar that can't be trusted on anything, then they complain when we are not able to solve things through diplomacy.

I have a couple of daughters getting home from school any minute now so I will be going offline for a while so no more "counterpoints" today. :-)

You want to know what is RE... (Below threshold)
stever:

You want to know what is REALLY classless?

Choosing a one term governor because she is a woman, cynically attempting to pander to the disgruntled Hillary supporters, cynically assuming that they will look past the fact that she is vehemently pro-life to the point that she would absolutely refuse to let her teenage daughters get abortions even if they were raped.

THAT IS CLASSLESS.

Picking someone just because she is a woman actually undercuts the feminist movement which is based on a desire first to allow women to strive to the same heights as men and second to make sure that they get there based on their drive and strength and nothing else. Palin, being picked simply because she is a woman, does not advance the cause of women. She is a tool for McCain's cynical campaign that is desperately reaching for anything in an effort to outshine Obama's undeniable greatness.

No Stever, classless is att... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

No Stever, classless is attacking a person "simply because she is a woman", and not bothering to consider why she was chosen.

You are the cynical ass, not McCain.

As for Obama's so-called "undeniable greatness", I shall merely say that such a claim is as yet not merely unproven to most of us, but completely unsupported by evidence to more than half the voters. McCain won't win just because Obama has not backed up his own pretense, but people like you are making regular folks consider McCain the more rational choice.

I did not attack Palin. I ... (Below threshold)
Stever:

I did not attack Palin. I attacked McCain for choosing her because she is a woman. Can you argue with that? Do you really think that if Palin were a man with all the same attributes, having been a mayor of a town of 6000 people, being a less than two year governor, do you really think McCain would have chosen her?

I certainly do not attack Palin because she is a woman. The only reason that her gender has any consequence to me personally is that McCain is USING her gender to pander to voters in a cynical attempt to pull in disgruntled Hillary supporters who so desperately wanted to see a woman as President.

On the subject of Obama's greatness: What takes more class than dedicating your life to service as Obama has done? He could have gone on to be a successful big time lawyer, but instead he started with community organizing and saw that the best way for him to really help communities in the US would be to work his way higher, not for some ego-driven desire for power, but to help the American people who have suffered under 8 years of BUSH.

What takes more class than running for the President because you love your country and know what it would take to turn it in the right direction. Read his books, listen to his speeches.

He may not have as many years in Washington as McCain but he knew from the start the invading Iraq was a horrible idea. What is more important? Good judgement an ability to act on moral principles or more years in office? It's clear that McCain's years in office have only led him to become a cynical politician who would choose Palin just because she is a woman.

Furthermore, DJ:as... (Below threshold)
Stever:

Furthermore, DJ:

as you can see, I did not attack Palin for being a woman (I only attacked her for her stance on abortion). However, I believe it was YOU who accused Obama of being successful only because of his race. Just a few posts ago, you claimed that Obama only won the primaries because of the race card. That's not very classy my friend. The reason that folks like me support Obama is for his stance on the issues and for his sincerety and passion and for our belief that he is the man for the job.

Stever,Let me fix ... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Stever,

Let me fix this for you.

Original version:
"Picking someone just because she is a woman actually undercuts the feminist movement which is based on a desire first to allow women to strive to the same heights as men and second to make sure that they get there based on their drive and strength and nothing else.

Corrected version:
Picking someone just because he is a black man actually undercuts the black movement which is based on a desire first to allow african-americans to strive to the same heights as everyone else and second to make sure that they get there based on their drive and strength and nothing else.

You're welcome.

lolKenny, that's j... (Below threshold)
Stever:

lol

Kenny, that's just not clever at all.

What did I just say? I don't care that Obama is Black. The fact that Obama is black does not factor into my reasons for voting for him. Yes, that would be part of why I will be happy once he is elected. But that is not why I want him to be president, and that is not why any of us want him to be president.

Look, I'm from Michigan. I would not want the mayor of Detroit to be the President. He's black and a democrat, but he is awful. Race is not the issue.

BUT, in the case of Palin, gender is the issue and it's obvious. During her acceptance speech she didn't waste any time pandering to the Hillary supporters. "Hey guys, remember those 18 million cracks in the tallest ceiling in the land. Well I'm your woman. I'll be the one to finish what Hillary started" bla bla bla bullshit bullshit bullshit

yeah right...

I'm just going to say one m... (Below threshold)
Stever:

I'm just going to say one more thing: there's one thing that is right about your post Kenny. Once your cynical context has been removed, both the "original" and "corrected" versions are true and worthy statements.

Stever,"Race is no... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Stever,

"Race is not the issue."

You're kidding, right???

You really believe that Obama was nominated because of the depth of his experience? Wow, community organizer for a year.

Hell, as operations manager for a company for 4 years I"VE got more executive experience than Obama does.

Hmmmmm...... maybe I should run.....

ANNOUNCING MY WRITE_IN CAND... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

ANNOUNCING MY WRITE_IN CANDIDACY FOR PRESIDENT.


The centerpiece of my platform is simple, (just let me steal this from the Democratic party platform of 2028)

1. Only the top 1/4 of income earners will pay any income tax.

2. The income tax rate will be a simple calculation, whatever is needed to run the government will be taxed from the top 1/4 of income earners.

3. Everyone who earns less than the average income will receive a $5000.00 income tax rebate from the government.


So remember, Write in Kenny for President!

tas - "Your heros Reaga... (Below threshold)
marc:

tas - "Your heros Reagan and Dubya did the same thing numerous times and I don't see criticizing them."

So did your heros Clinton and Carter, so your point is again?

tas - "So are you going to have an actual counterpoint or should I not bother coming back here today?

Oh please say that is a promise you will keep!

Sarah Palin is the only can... (Below threshold)
John:

Sarah Palin is the only candidate in either ticket who has ever actually run anything and has executive experience, but the Dems want to attack her because of her "inexperience?"

Barack Obama has NO executive experience whatsoever, has done nothing but campaign for the presidency ever since he got picked to fill a seat in the Illinois State Senate, and they have the GALL to attack her "inexperience?"

I can't wait for Ms. Palin to actually get involved in the campaign, and blows these idiots away.

Kenny, It's impossi... (Below threshold)
Stever:

Kenny,
It's impossible to measure what effect Obama's race had to do with him gaining the nomination, but to suggest that his race was in fact the one defining factor is to be completely, stubbornly wrong and to undermine the real reasons for his success. Obama may not have many years in office, but he has the intelligence and understanding of issues that we should hope for in a President, he has the strength of conviction to stand up and to do the right thing, he is not in the pockets of special interests and lobbyists, he is working to help America and he has convinced me and millions of others that he will do the job well.

Remember, the African-American community took a lot of time to warm up to Obama. Hillary was leading for many months before Obama gained the vast majority of the black vote. They did not just throw their votes at him because they wanted a black candidate.

I'm not going to call you a racist, but do you realize that your statement is borderline racist? To suggest that Obama won because he is black? Where is your evidence for that?

Also, you have dodged the very real issue of Palin being a tool for McCain. Can you refute that McCain is attempting to pander to disgruntled Hillary supporters. I actually have pretty concrete evidence for that. He aired multiple ads that suggested Obama snubbed Hillary. He aired an ad that featured an alleged former Hillary supporter who has decided to vote for him. And now he has picked a no-name Woman as his VP who made a big obvious reach out to the HIllary supporters by say, "remember those 18 million cracks. Well Women arn't done yet".... such a bullshit statement.. SUCH BULLSHIT... TOTALLY UNDERMINING THE MEANING OF HILLARY'S ACTUAL CAMPAIGN.. respond to that point... let's get off this meaningless race bullshit

Let me say that on the basi... (Below threshold)
John:

Let me say that on the basis of knowledge of America's founding and what this country is about, I could destroy Obama in a debate. Barack Obama merely regurgitates the stupid socialist junk that he feeds on. He merely spews crap that other people tells him. His foundation of knowledge about America is non-existant.

The only thing that is exceptional about Barack Obama is his sense of self-importance. That alone has propelled him to where he is today.

John. I'm curious.... (Below threshold)
Stever:

John.

I'm curious. Why don't you write a big speech about what this country means to you and what you would do if you were president.

After reading your ad hominem attack on Obama's knowledge about America, I highly doubt that you have actually looked at Obama with an open mind. Why don't you read his book, The Audacity of Hope, which devotes a great deal of its content to the history of America, to the current state of America, and to what Obama would do for America.

Hollow ad Hominem attacks already prove you to lack rational, clear-thinking judgment.

Stever,I acknowled... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Stever,

I acknowledge that Obama is intelligent, photogenic, and charismatic.

I also point out that Obama has less experience than EVRY OTHER candidate running for the democratic nomination.

I also point out that he has almost zero accomplishments to his record.

I certainly dispute that he has the strength of conviction to stand up and to do the right thing, I have seen no evidence of this in any of his actions,

Now you can play the racist card if you want, i've been called worse, but I will stand beside Geraldine Ferraro on this issue.

In closing let me note that I started by merely taking your own words and replacing "woman" with "black".

Isn't it interesting that that gets me called a borderline racist.

Stever said:"Obama... (Below threshold)
John:

Stever said:

"Obama may not have many years in office, but he has the intelligence and understanding of issues that we should hope for in a President, he has the strength of conviction to stand up and to do the right thing, he is not in the pockets of special interests and lobbyists, he is working to help America and he has convinced me and millions of others that he will do the job well."

This is nothing but Obama propaganda. This is rubbish. The only issue that BO has held to with any "conviction" to is the destruction of born children who failed to die when they were aborted. He is so fanatical about destroying children that NO OTHER Democrat in the US Senate could follow it.

Obama is all over the ballpark on "the issues." He lies about his "stands" on issues, when he sits on his ass and votes "present" most of the time and allows everyone else to stick their necks out.

Regarding his "intelligence," he's lost without a teleprompter in front of him. When he's confronted with answering questions that he is not been made prepared for, he looks like a fool in a vain attempt to piece together coherent words to answer it.

He belongs to special interests. He is the property of George Soros and his organizations. He is a puppet of the ultra-leftists in this country. He does not own his own mind, but rather is a programmed robot. His "mentors" that he himself have named and featured in his bios demonstrate a lack of owning an idiology that he has formed on his own. He continually quotes these people, and claims their words as his own.

If you actually believe in Obama, then I see it no differently as if you were blindly believing in the words of a religious cult leader. There is no evidence that Obama knows what the hell he is talking about, and most of the time he is merely spewing mindless slogans. He is a stupid, stupid man. The evidence of his campaign's floundering is proof of this. His stupid associations are proof of this. His inability to convey a coherent thought without a teleprompter is proof of this.

Now, go and blindly vote for this man.

alright,you guys are... (Below threshold)
Stever:

alright,
you guys are pretty set in your ways and do not seem capable of looking past what the right wing media outlets have told you to believe about Obama. I have to go to work in a few minutes, but I'll respond to a few points here.

Kenny, the point you made that was borderline racist was the point about Obama becoming the nominee only because of his race. This is borderline racist because it suggests that Obama has no other qualities or achievements to boot apart from being black, which is simply not true. you are defining all the achievements of his life through his race, suggesting that white guilt has elected him... that's not racist, but borderline racist...

and to Henry, I repeat: read his book, and then get back to me.

Let me close with this hypothetical:

let's just say George W. Bush could run a third term. He has just about as much experience as you could ask for. He's been president for 8 years. Would you want Bush over Obama? Bush has fucked this country in the ass. I don't case about his fucking experience. He is full of shit and if anyone is in the pockets of special interests, it is Bush who sold out the EPA to a bunch of ex-oil company CEOs who gutted its strength at all levels... FUCK BUSH AND FUCK HIS EXPERIENCE!

OBAMA KNOWS WHAT TO DO TO HELP THIS COUNTRY REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY YEARS HE'S SPENT IN OFFICE

Stever,Thanks for ... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

Stever,

Thanks for the hate-filled BDS rant.

Hey, I know what to do to help this country and I haven't spent any time in office (see my campaign platform above).

So remember: Write in Kenny for president!

Stever said:"I'm c... (Below threshold)
John:

Stever said:

"I'm curious. Why don't you write a big speech about what this country means to you and what you would do if you were president."

I wouldn't presume to know what I would do as a president, but I'll explain to you what this country means to me.

It means that the American government belongs to us. It means that the government was formed precisely to defend the freedoms and liberties of the people. It is diametrically opposed to Obama's sad litany about people's "clinging to their guns and religion," and his own "antipathy to people who aren't like" himself, namely folks like his "typical white person" grandmother.

It is also about Democracy, not men and women in black robes legislating from the bench. The "Democratic" Party has ceased to be democratic, since they rely upon leftist radicals to tell us what is and isn't law in the country, rather than what the Constitution actually SAYS. Obama does not like justices who read and undertands what the Constitution actually SAYS, and judges accordingly. He would put more Ruth Bader Ginsburgs in there.

It is about people being able to go as far as their imaginations and ambitions will carry them. Along the way, people fail, but that is not the responsibility of the government to put everyone in a house, behind the wheel of a car, with paid health care, and everyone is equally miserable. Obama got where he got with his enormous ambition, and he should use that to show folks the path to go, NOT to rely solely upon the federal government for their sustinence.

Obama's view of government is that all property belongs to the government, and everything that we have is due to the beneficence of our elected officials. America was founded on the basis of the people's rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of property, which ALL are opposed by Obama and the "Democratic" Party. Obama is a socialist, he will suck more and more of the public sector economy into Washington, DC, and he will further destroy what America was founded to be.

I am not saying that what Republicans have and will do is my ideal. That is not what I am saying at all. Both parties have failed the people of America. Both parties are destroying the meaning of what it means to be a citizen, and are actively making being a non-citizen more advantageous than being a citizen. Both parties spend our money like drunken sailors and whoremongers. Both parties pander to every single ridiculous Balkinized constituent, rather than emphasize what being an American means.

Obama wants more and more government to take control over every aspect of your life from cradle to grave. That does not have ANYTHING to do with the founding of this nation. Obama wants a Supreme Court to create law out of whole cloth in order to reconstitute American society. Obama wants a divided country, divided along racial and social lines.

Now, dispute it.

"Hollow ad Hominem attacks ... (Below threshold)
John:

"Hollow ad Hominem attacks already prove you to lack rational, clear-thinking judgment."

That statement could be used to explain about 99% of Democrat attacks against Republicans, including your own.

John,Well said, si... (Below threshold)
Kenny:

John,

Well said, sir.

"Heck, Palin's parents foun... (Below threshold)
Herman:

"Heck, Palin's parents found out about the pick from Fox News." -- Lorie

And not from Sarah Palin herself I might add.

Stever said"Would yo... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Stever said
"Would you want Bush over Obama?"

I will take Bush's dog (Does he have one?) over Obama. He/she/it would do a lot less damage to the country than Obama would.

howdy folks, back ... (Below threshold)
Stever:

howdy folks,

back to make perhaps my last post on this page. yes I got carried away above, but I still stand by my assertions. Do you guys know the situation behind the EPA under Bush? I doubted that any of you would respond to that point. Do you guys even know what the EPA is? Environmental Protection Agency... Do you guys know what Bush has done to this agency, one that was created to protect the health of the American people against the hazardous environmental damage inevitably created by corporations whose goals are entirely based on increasing profits with no concern for anything else? Read these articles if you dare:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/230047_epa25.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/29/AR2007092901759_pf.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/03/14/ST2008031400320.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/19/AR2008081902721.html

These detail what Bush did to the EPA. He appointed a lawyer who worked for W.R. Grace, BP, Dow Chemical and DuPont, all corporations that are 100% at odds with helping the environment. Predictably, the EPA became weaker and weaker until it was ultimately fighting against the environment rather than for it.

What is this, may I ask you, other than Bush being in the pockets of corporations?

I'm not going to try to respond to any of the other issues raised, because I think most of them are bullshit anyway. But let's see if any of you are brave enough to directly respond to the articles I have presented.

Yes, it's just one issue, but it makes a pretty clear point about Bush fucking America in the ass as I said earlier.

When global warming is threatening to destroy the planet, Bush has not only fucked America in the ass but the entire planet by making no advances environmentally and instead doing everything possible to weaken the one agency in charge of the issue.

respond folks

respond folks<... (Below threshold)
John Irving:

respond folks

You have a limited vocabulary matched only by your limited knowledge base. Your ignorance would be breathtaking if anyone actually gave a damn.

There's the best response you deserve. Try again when you grow up.

""In an interview just a mo... (Below threshold)
bobby b:

""In an interview just a month ago, she dissed the job, saying it didn't seem "productive.""

- - -

To someone used to being the CEO - to being the person making the command decisions, like a mayor, or a governor - yeah, the vice-presidency probably DOES seem unproductive. Remember, it was a vice president who told us that that the job wasn't worth "a pitcher of warm spit."

But, looking at what she's accomplished so far, I'm betting it won't be viewed as an unproductive position in a few years.

What is this, may ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
What is this, may I ask you, other than Bush being in the pockets of corporations?

It's a Bush conspiracy, bla bla bla...

When global warming is threatening to destroy the planet,
That is isn't going to fly with the ones who can tell the difference between actual environmental issues and the algore hoax. Oh yeah, and the hoax is all Bush's fault, too. Bla bla bla...
To say that Biden has a wea... (Below threshold)
Pelayo:

To say that Biden has a wealth of experience in foreign relations is like saying that Pelayo has medical experience because he watches The Health Channel. Biden has never negotiated a treaty, an agreement, or had any substantial dealings with a foreign power. Sitting in a Senate committee and pontificating about things foreign does not qualify him for anything but being a spectator.

As leftist dim-wits are won... (Below threshold)
John:

As leftist dim-wits are wont to do, they turn to BUSH when all else fails, when anyone who is paying attention can point out that BUSH IS NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

Stever, you accused me of "hollow ad hominem attacks" on Obama, of which I have responded to. You may either respond to what I have said about your ignorant presidential nominee, or you can apologize to me for what you said about MY "lack of rational, clear-thinking judegement."

Speaking of "judgement," you have said yourself with regard to Detroit's mayor that he is an awful person to be holding that office. Well, what did Obama say about Mr. Kilpatrick?

OBAMA (in a speech in Detroit last May):

: "...(Kilpatrick) has been on the frontlines doing an outstanding job of gathering together the leadership at every level in Detroit to bring about the kind of renaissance that all of us anticipate for this great city.

And he is a leader not just here in Detroit, not just in Michigan, but all across the country. People look to him. We know that he is going to be doing astounding things for many years to come.

And so I'm grateful to call him a friend and a colleague. And I'm looking forward to a lengthy collaboration in terms of making sure that Detroit does well in the future."

Now, simply add this ignornace and stupidity to his dealings with Tony Rezko, William Aires and Bernadette Dorn, his "mentor" Jeramiah Wright, and you see a person who is utterly without ANY judgement to be able to lead his own life, let alone a NATION!

Correction:The com... (Below threshold)
John:

Correction:

The comments by Obama regarding Kwame Kilpatrick was made last year, not this. I meant to make that clear. Regardless, Obama stepped into a huge pile of steamy poo.

still no legitimate respons... (Below threshold)
Stever:

still no legitimate responses to the articles about Bush and the EPA. Okay... sure, let's put aside the notion supported by 90% of our world's scientists that global warming is man-made phenomena which could potentially wreak havoc (and also that it is quite likely linked with a higher frequency of increasingly intense hurricanes such as Gustav)

ok, I am willing to put aside that notion for a bit.

Does that in any way change the reality covered in the articles that I posted earlier? Is anyone going to be brave enough to actually read those articles and respond directly to the information therein?

These are not articles from far-left political rags. These are legitimate pieces of news that detail just how much Bush is in the hands of corporations.

There's one thing that cannot be denied. Polution is a very real thing and a dangerous thing. Mercury levels and PCBs continue to rise in fish, especially salmon. This is very harmful to humans, especially young children. I believe one of those articles details the EPA crushing a bill that would seek to bring down the amount of mercury levels in fish. Now why would the EPA do something like that? Hmmm... I think that would be because Bush appointed someone to the EPA who is doing the business of helping corporations get a free pass instead of helping the environment.

This is a very real accusation based on very real and clear-cut evidence. And quite frankly it proves that Bush cares more about satisfying corporate lobbyists than he does about the health of Americans everywhere.

Okay... now I've cut down on my profanity and cut down on making particularly bold statements about global warming, which I suppose hurt my credibility.

Now that I've gone the more straight and narrow route, focusing specifically on the more immediate evidence against Bush, let's see if the conservatives who frequent this page will be able to address this information.

Does anyone want to actually respond, instead of weakly criticizing me for saying, "respond folks", which is a lame cop-out especially considering the gravity of the EPA situation.

It deserves a response.

Does anyone want t... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Does anyone want to actually respond, instead of weakly criticizing me for saying, "respond folks", which is a lame cop-out especially considering the gravity of the EPA situation. It deserves a response.

Not without legitimate sources to back up using "90% of our world's scientists that global warming is man-made phenomena".

News Item: : Science Now Reports The Earth Is Cooling, Will Man Be Blamed For This As Well?
I can find many more links if you like.

stever, the primary reason your comments aren't getting much of a reaction is because they are off-topic. This post is not about global warming. At least go to the energy posts, so all of your issues can be addressed.

with all due respect, the i... (Below threshold)
Stever:

with all due respect, the issue of Bush and the EPA is on some level related. The question of experience is central to the current presidential campaign, especially regarding Palin. On the important subject of experience, I posed a hypothetical question about Bush running for a third term against Obama. Bush has a great deal of experience actually being President... you don't get much more than what he has. However, does his experience qualify him to be a good president? Hmmm, judging from his awful job BEING president, I would argue that his experience being president has not prepared him to BE a good president.

Now, my specific example of Bush being a BAD president had to do with Bush appointing a corporate lawyer to run the EPA, deliberately seeking to gut the EPA of all its power to protect the environment against corporations whose actions harm it.

There are plenty of other examples of Bush being a terrible president (see the Iraq War). And all of them are relevant to the question of EXPERIENCE.

Do we want someone with experience being a cynical politician who is willing to flush the environment down the toilet? Or do we want someone who has spent their life fighting to do what is right for America, regardless of how much time they have spent in the Senate?

"SUCH BULLSHIT... TOTALL... (Below threshold)

"SUCH BULLSHIT... TOTALLY UNDERMINING THE MEANING OF HILLARY'S ACTUAL CAMPAIGN.. respond to that point... let's get off this meaningless race bullshit"

Sure. Just as soon as you get off the gender bullshit.

Palin was not speaking to anything in regards to Hillary's stance on issues. She used the statement in the SAME CONTEXT that Hillary did. Neither of them used it in the context of political philosophy. Both of them used it strictly in the context of gender not being a barrier to candidacy.

Stever, YOU changed the sub... (Below threshold)
John:

Stever, YOU changed the subject. We were talking about the candidates RUNNING FOR OFFICE OF PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT, and you switched gears on us.

Stever, you are a craven coward. You dropped the "you lack of rational, clear-thinking judegement" bomb on me, and I responded to what you said. NOW you want to talk about Bush and the EPA.

If you want to talk about that somewhere ELSE, where the TOPIC is about the EPA, then you have a legitamate arguement. The topic HERE is about liberal Democrat hypocrasy with regard to their attacks on Sarah Palin's "inexperience." Barack Obama is running to become the chief executive of the whole country, his executive experience is NIL, and you think that is acceptible?

You think you are on the high ground with your rambling on about Bush, but you are in the mud because you have been destroyed as far as what the topic HERE is concerned. Your candidate is a moron. I would utterly lay waste to him in a debate about America's foundation, and what its government was created to be. He lacks ANY understanding about American history as it actually happened, rather than the leftist propaganda rubbish that swims around in his ill-lit skull.

You can call that "hollow" and "ad-hominem," but as far as I'm concerned I have answered those ridiculous charges and have laid you low. You have no defense for your silly presidential candidate, so you have to change the subject. That is a coward's tactic, and you do not deserve our "response" to your cowardice.

.This is going to be... (Below threshold)
USpace Author Profile Page:

.
This is going to be fun. History will be made, one way or another, and it looks more likely now that it will be the right history.

Even more Hillary supporters will go for McCain now. Obama is no longer a near certainty. Heaven forbid something happens to McCain, but I believe Palin would rise to the occasion. She has the right attitude. Everyone knows Obama is NOT ready for POTUS, Palin is only for the VP. Look at Dan Quayle.

YEY SARAH PALIN! YEY John McCain! Great pick! The 1st woman for the GOP VP? SCORE!

She's conservative! SCORE! She's a Governor! SCORE! She's pro-drilling! She's a hunter! SCORE! She's a hockey Mom and played basketball in school! SCORE! She's pro-life! And she respects women! SCORE! She fights corruption! SCORE! She's high-energy! SCORE! She's tough! SCORE! She's got 5 kids! SCORE! Her son is going to Iraq in the Armed Forces! SCORE! She's married to a Blue-collar professional! SCORE! She's smart! SCORE! She's young! SCORE!

And she's a Hotty to boot! SCORE! The Left is going to go nuts! SCORE!
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
never elect a woman

who's a conservative
she's just a gender traitor

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
just HOPE to pay more taxes

DREAM about high fuel prices
CHANGE PROGRESS to move backwards

.
All real freedom starts with freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech, there can be no real freedom.
.
Philosophy of Liberty Cartoon
.
Help Halt Terrorism Today!
.
USpace

:)
.

Personally, I would have ra... (Below threshold)
John:

Personally, I would have rather McCain had chosen Mitt Romney--you know, someone with more of a track-record and familiarity with the voters. Had he done so, there wouldn't have been ANY talk from the Dems about "experience." He would easliy had stood out in every possible way from any Dem running for any office anywhere.

But, he also stands out too much next to McCain, and that is probably why he went into another direction. Regardless, Sarah Palin has at least shown an ability to run a couple of executive offices successfully. It would like if the chief of medicine in a small town hospital were being chosen to be placed in the second chair in charge of the Mayo Clinic.

On the other hand, using the same analogy as above with regard to Obama, it would be like somebody who just took a two-hour CPR course expecting to become the chief of medicine at the Mayo Clinic. Using another analogy, it would be like someone who just learned how to play baseball demanding to be put into baseball's Hall of Fame--with ESPN, ESPN 2, FSN, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and NBC hyping in their favor.

I agree with Glenn Beck regarding his assertion that American journalism is dead. Barack Obama is the least-capable politician in the whole country to hold the most powerful office in the entire WORLD, he's shown in his past with his own words and his important associations that he's devoid of ANY sort of positive leadership principles, and if the mere facts about this man would simply have been reported to the public, Obama would not have won a single primary, let alone his party's nomination.

The voters have a right to know who we are going to vote for. We all know about McCain's past. Everyone is digging about ANYTHING to put out that could be construed as negative to report about Sarah Palin. But Obama? All the media reports about him is what he SAYS he will do, and they all sit around and discuss that. People do not know anything about who Obama is, Obama himself does not want anyone to know who he is, and the so-called "news" media isn't interested in telling anyone about who he is either, simply because they are in his camp.

So, it's up to folks like Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, and other conservative commentators to tell everyone who this otherwise nonentity is. And, all the while, the "news" media complain that these people do not have "journalistic" credentials and "objectivity." It enough to make your head explode.

It is a shame that the repu... (Below threshold)
F.Cools:

It is a shame that the republicans, who put a man in office who has been lying for 8 years to the American people and who has made life worse for so many Americans (and the rest of the world), and who has no problem with 5000 dead young men and women, with fighting a war in a country that never attacked the USA, dare to come up with candidates who support that war, and who use the same rhetoric about security and fighting. What is so scary to the great nation of the USA?
The ridiculing of the opponent, like Palin and Giuliani did, reminded me of the cowards and bullies (the comrades, judges and prosecutors) of the Soviet Union and of Hitler Germany, when they with malicious pleasure falsely accused and convicted a bright mind that did not agree with their ideology.




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