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Call To Arms: Defending Honor

There are a lot of positions John McCain holds that warrant debate and even criticism. But his honor - the core of his character - is decidedly not among them. Period.

Barack Obama's press secretary has stepped where he ought not have gone, questioning John McCain's honor. And when it comes to defending the honor of honorable men, American veterans don't circle the wagons, we circle tanks and load the turrets. Mindless smear will not stand. Not now, not ever.

At issue is a new ad from the McCain campaign that calls into question the nature of what it calls Barack Obama's solitary legislative achievement, which deals with sex education and child safety in schools. Perhaps the campaign ad was too simplistic in its description of the legislation as simply sex education. Perhaps the legislation, on the other hand, had only a small part dealing with child safety. I am unfamiliar with the legislation. And it really doesn't matter one way or the other anymore. For, once again, the Obama campaign has said something so substantively abrasive as to make that which they are complaining about a minor aside.

"Obama's one accomplishment?" the narrator [in the McCain-Palin ad] asks. "Legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners. Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."

Bill Burton, Obama's press secretary, responded in a statement: "It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls - a position that his friend Mitt Romney also holds. Last week, John McCain told Time magazine he couldn't define what honor was. Now we know why."

I don't know Bill Burton, but with a statement like that, he's an idiot. If he's not looking for a job today, it may only be to avoid the appearance of campaign meltdown. But with statements like that - and 'lipstick on a pig' et al, there's already the appearance of a campaign meltdown.

John McCain didn't say he couldn't define honor. He said he was "not going to" define honor. And if you read his words carefully, he appears to be looking to avoid a 'gotcha' moment from the reporter from TIME, an interview that appears confrontational.

In an interview the magazine described as "prickly," McCain repeatedly refused to define "honor": "Read it in my books. ... I'm not going to define it. ... I defined it in five books. Read my books."

Senator McCain clearly looks to be denying a gotcha moment to a reporter who is likely just a touch too clever for himself. And for Bill Burton - a campaign press secretary who has a solid grasp of the English language and the calculated usages of terms in the media - he has gone where he should not have.

This remark is on par with Randi Rhodes saying John McCain was treated well in Vietnam. The difference is only that Rhodes is a surrogate, while Burton is an important member of Obama campaign.

Arouse the passions among veterans, and you've got yourself a fight, Burton. Buckle up.

In Stolen Honor Reclaimed, defending the honor - the very dignity - of another Vietnam veteran, I included my personal definition of honor. Mr. Burton may wish to take a lesson. Because while he may recite a phrase defining honor, he clearly possesses little within his own character.

Honor is the single most important aspect of character that defines military service. Honor transcends integrity. It transcends honesty, selflessness, compassion and duty. Indeed, honor encompasses them all. Honor is a pillar of military service.

Helping my daughter with her homework one day, she asked me, "Daddy, what is honor?" I told her simply, "Honey, honor is doing the right thing...even when no one is looking."

She got it.

It's really no more complicated than that.

Burton may get it, too. He just apparently possesses none of it.

I am American first, conservative second and Republican a distant and decided third. In that order decisively. As such, I clearly have issues with some of Senator McCain's positions - namely immigration and Cap & Trade. But one such area where I have zero issues is with his integrity and his honor. And frankly, I don't see how anyone can claim to have issues with these and say it with a straight face.

John McCain may anger conservatives at times, but he never surprises them. He says what he means and means what he says. No backroom deals, no sneaky earmarks padding his supporters, none of that. He does the same thing when no one is looking as he does when everyone is looking. This is an unassailable truth about the character of a man shaped under incredible duress while serving at greater risk to self than most can fathom, no matter how often the story of his torture in captivity is told.

John McCain can define honor, Mr. Burton. He embodies it. He lives it. He is, quite honestly, honor personified - which has nothing to do with whether Mr. Burton, or Mr. Obama or I or anyone else agrees with a word he says.

  • When no one was looking, John McCain refused early release from the Hanoi Hilton because honor bound him to ensure that those there longer were released before him.
  • When no one was looking, Barack Obama made a shady mortgage deal with the assistance of a felon, Tony Rezko.
  • When no one was looking, John McCain on many occasions quietly visited troops in the field and in hospital beds simply because they were there.
  • When no one was looking, Barack Obama planned a visit to Landsthul Army Hospital only to cancel it when he learned that no one really would be looking because his campaign entourage and photographers were not allowed in to chronicle his visit.
  • When no one was looking, John McCain took an oath to defend the United States and its Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
  • When no one was looking, Barack Obama was befriending Bill Ayers to launch his political career, eventually sitting on a board with a domestic enemy, the unrepentant domestic terrorist who had declared war on the United States government and bombed targets in the Capitol and launched attacks elsewhere.


Now, while everyone is looking, John McCain remains the same man.

Now, while everyone is looking, Barack Obama and his campaign work tirelessly to assure that he is seen as quite a different man than he conducted himself when no one was looking. And for Burton to make an insulting, demeaning and false attack on the character of John McCain on behalf of his employer, Barack Obama, is inexcusable. It is deplorable.

And as veterans, we know a thing or two about honor and character that the Obama campaign and its staff and surrogates apparently cannot grasp. They are advised to stick to the issues and debate policy positions. Because attempts at character assassination and the false sullying of the honor of a good man's character will not stand.

Our tanks are circled and our turrets loaded with principle and conviction.

And there are more veterans than simply registered Democrats. For this transcends party politics and the Obama campaign clearly "just doesn't get it." They will. The lines have been drawn, and they have crossed onto the wrong side of it.

The campaign has unwittingly just sounded the call to arms; a call to defend honor - not just John McCain's, but the very definition that we all hold dear. This we will defend.


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Comments (53)

What's sad is that McCain u... (Below threshold)
max:

What's sad is that McCain used to be an honorable man, but at this point he has willingly traded that honor for a shot at power. And anyone who defends his "honor" now clearly either doesn't know what that means or is being disingenuous.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

Now, let the spittle fly.

great post Steve.what the h... (Below threshold)
1903A3:

great post Steve.what the hell are these people thinking.oh!,wait minute,they dont think its all emotion for them,phhht they can kiss my a--. got your six on this.

Max, you are just showing w... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Max, you are just showing what the Left is made of. You stepped over the line, but rather than step back and apologize, you aggravate the offense and prove your own contemptible lack of honesty and integrity.

"Couldn't define honor"?... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:

"Couldn't define honor"??? The man DEFINES honor by his very conduct. I've had enough of these asswipes impugning honor, something they wouldn't recognize if they fell in a puddle of it.

One of McCain's redeeming f... (Below threshold)
Matt:

One of McCain's redeeming features is his sense of Honor. With McCain, what you see is what you get, warts, scars and all. He doesn't pretend to be something he isn't.

Obama doesn't even know who he truly is. He has never been tried by adversity, never suffered for his convictions.

watch and listen libs. you ... (Below threshold)
jab:

watch and listen libs. you might just get to witness Barack Hussein Obama's "Tora Bora." he's going to blow it big time.

Steve - this post is one of... (Below threshold)

Steve - this post is one of the most moving I have read in a very long time - and one of the most accurate. That any commenter seems to be unable to "get it" is pathetic really.

I don't agree with a lot of things John McCain has done legislatively, but I have never, ever questioned his ethics or morality and certainly never would question his honor.

On the other hand, I question everything about Senator Obama - his judgment, his common sense, his associations, his leftwing views, his integrity or lack thereof.

Aside from all else, one excellent reason to support McCain/Palin is that neither of them is a LAWYER which also gives them a head start in the ethics department.

I often question McCain's j... (Below threshold)
The Listkeeper:

I often question McCain's judgement, but have never had reason to question his honor.

If a man of honor lies what... (Below threshold)
JFO:

If a man of honor lies what becomes of his honor?

"If a man of honor lies ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"If a man of honor lies what becomes of his honor?"

You tell us, JFO. You ought to know.

Gayle -

The fact that both McCain and Palin AREN'T Lawyers is a big plus for me. Lawyers seem to feel that words are much more important than anything else, and that reality is very amenable to being parsed and misquoted - and manipulated with words in the same way a jury can.

I don't want to start any f... (Below threshold)
Curious person:

I don't want to start any false rumors so can someone provide an explaination for the following:

According to McCain's convention speech his captors were angry for him refusing to leave and treated him more harshly because of it.

Why didn't his captors just throw him in the back of a van and haul him off.

"Max, you are just showing ... (Below threshold)
max:

"Max, you are just showing what the Left is made of."

Oh yeah, DJ? You're showing me what you're made of. Cowardice.

"You stepped over the line, but rather than step back and apologize, you aggravate the offense and prove your own contemptible lack of honesty and integrity."

Correction, McCain stepped over the line, and you refuse to acknowledge the proof of his "contemptible lack of honesty and integrity."

Seriously, DJ, you're kinda phoning it in today. You can do better than that. I've seen what heights your righteous indignation can reach.

Great response, Lawson. Like it or not, JFO's question is the right one for anyone with any shred of intellectual honesty to ask. I'd be surprised if any McCain supporter here would be willing to truly ask that question of themselves.

Also, love the return of DJ's best reason to vote for McCain. He's not a lawyer. Truly hilarious.

But, but, McCain served his... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

But, but, McCain served his country with honor and Hussein O 'thought' about joining the military when he registered with the selective service upon graduation from high school in 1979. Since I worked in a MAJCOM headquarters through 1980 I remember the selective service registration requirement being reinstated in late '1980'. The chosen one does things before the requirement to do them exist. Does that prove he's the 'chosen one' or that's he's still a Chicago street corner thug and liar?

Max -I KNOW I've a... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Max -

I KNOW I've acted less than honorably in the past, and try to make up for it by acting in an honorable fashion now. Politics aside - if someone acts in an honorable fashion, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. From what I've seen, McCain - though I don't agree with him on everything - has a pretty rigid code of honor and acts in accordance with that.

I can respect that.

JFO, however? Not so much.

Curious: "Why didn't his ca... (Below threshold)
Drago:

Curious: "Why didn't his captors just throw him in the back of a van and haul him off."

A good question.

During the Survival, Evasion, Rescue & Escape training (SERE) I received some years ago, this was actually discussed (along with alot of other things.)

Basically, by not accepting the North Vietnamese offer, he:
1) short-circuited a potent potential anti-morale weapon that could have been used against the other prisoners.

2) Made it clear to his captors (and potentially his fellow prisoners) that he had not been broken

3) made his interrogators "lose face" in front of the interrogators superiors

There are other reasons as well, but the first 2 are fairly important.

Talk about 'phonming it in'... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Talk about 'phonming it in', max? LOL, where should I even begin?

First, you never supported your sleaze, you just claimed McCain had no honor and did not even try to support it. Yet I 'phoned it in'?

Second, you just don't get it, that this smear and snarl behavior by the Left is not going to help you win over the voters you lost. Good, I love how you alienate more and more of America. You didn't pay attention to how Clinton handled Bush's WW2 heroism in the 1992 election, did you? You did not learn from how Clinton addressed Dole's honor when he faced him in 1996, either. Clinton was very smart, in that he understood he could not touch those men on the matters of honr and valor. So he stuck to the issues, where he could win over voters, issues like the economy and the communication of what he meant to do as President. Unlike Obama, Bill Clinton understood where he could be hurt, and he left those places alone. Instead, Obama now finds himself in a mine field of foolish statements and blundering positions. Barack Obama has become precisely what he promised h would never be, a spiteful partisan hack.

Third, I appreciate that you seem to think that I am playing Rove here, that every comment but yours must be directed by my use of The Force or something, but the Lawyer comment was from Gayle Miller, not me. Your obsession with me suggests that I may need another restraining order, hmm?

I am not inordinately angry with you yahoos, though. Losers like JFO and max lack a moral center in their lives in the first place, if you would fall for the slick empty lies of a con man like Obama in the first place, and I suspect the dawning sense that you are not going to fool the nation this time either, is just too much for you to deal with.

So then what's the answer, ... (Below threshold)
max:

So then what's the answer, Lawson?

"If a man of honor lies what becomes of his honor?"

And, for what it's worth, it's not an easy question to answer, but it's one that should be asked. And we're not talking about JFO, we're talking about McCain.

Max,You use the te... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:

Max,

You use the term "intellectual honesty"... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Also, you're a bit of a knob.

No max, we are not talking ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

No max, we are not talking about McCain, you are trying to shift the subjact away from your god-boy idol.

You're not fooling anyone.

Drago:I understand... (Below threshold)
Curious person:

Drago:

I understand why he refused. But how come the North Vietnamese did not force him to leave. Being a captive you pretty much have to do what your captors tells you.

Aaaahh!Survival, E... (Below threshold)
Drago:

Aaaahh!

Survival, Evasion, Resistance & Escape (not Rescue!)

Shouldn't type while on conference calls. It doesn't lend itself to coherence and it "cheats" the client.

Fortunately I continue to over-deliver in terms of value! (....he said, praising himself.....obama-like).....

Max -McCain's demo... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Max -

McCain's demonstrated his honor, honesty and integrity. If you find them lacking, I'd say that's a personal problem.

I have no problems with JFO's lack of honesty, honor, and integrity. He has demonstrated his lack of such many times, to the 'satisfaction' of all involved.

Curious Person -

It would have set a bad precedent. The North Vietnamese FORCING an evil running-dog lackey capitalist baby-bombing POW to leave? They'd have ended up a laughingstock.

You are all a bunch of liar... (Below threshold)
wbgonne:

You are all a bunch of liars. For years you right-wing whack-jobs have been SwiftBoating MCain. Now you're going to defend his honor? What a crock. Lipstick on a pig, indeed.

Curious P: "But how come... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Curious P: "But how come the North Vietnamese did not force him to leave"

A a high-profile prisoner, McCain held value to the North Vietnamese, but if he could be shown as cooperating with the North Vietnamese, the propaganda value would be even higher. By refusing to cooperate, McCain's value to the North Vietnamese continued to be only that they could hurt Americans by keeping them inprisoned and tortured.

Also, from testimony by POWs held by the North Vietnamese, men like McCain were symbols of resistance to the men who imprisoned them. They did not understand that McCain's continued resistance encouraged his fellow prisoners, but they were determined to crush the spirit of McCain and men like him.

And finally, while I love the Vietnamese people daerly for many things, the men who ran prisons in North Vietnam were generally cruel and vicious, inclined to real torture just because they had the opportunity to do so without consequence. The people who think Guantanamo represents 'torture' do not have the first idea what real torture was like, but the point here is that the monsters which ran those prison camps did not want to let even one of their victims live, much less leave, if tehy could help it.

Why didn't his captors j... (Below threshold)
General Võ Nguyên Giáp:

Why didn't his captors just throw him in the back of a van and haul him off??

Damn !! Why didn't I think of that?

Max-What'... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Max-

What's sad is that McCain used to be an honorable man, but at this point he has willingly traded that honor for a shot at power.

Let me fix that for you.

What's sad is we have never really been sure of Obama's honor, but at this point it doesn't really matter to his supporters because they never expected honor to get him into office.

You are all a bunc... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
You are all a bunch of liars. For years you right-wing whack-jobs have been SwiftBoating MCain. Now you're going to defend his honor? What a crock. Lipstick on a pig, indeed.

I just love the drive-bys with empty catch-phrases. They almost sound like they know what they're talking about.

I just love the drive-by... (Below threshold)
wbgonne:

I just love the drive-bys with empty catch-phrases. They almost sound like they know what they're talking about.

Oh yeah? Why don't you do a search of your archives? Check for any references to McCain BEFORE he became the Republican nominee. Let me know if you find ANYTHING complimentary about McCain.

. . .

Nothing? Why don't you try searching under "media whore"?

BTW: Your call to arms is laughable. Go ahead -- get your RPGs out of your mom's basement. All you circle-jerks will shoot is each other. Have fun.

You sound a bit, hmm, de... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

You sound a bit, hmm, desperate, wbgonne.

Better get help now, because it's going to get worse for your side.

BTW: Your call to ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
BTW: Your call to arms is laughable. Go ahead -- get your RPGs out of your mom's basement. All you circle-jerks will shoot is each other. Have fun.

You're a drone. Obama accuses McCain of "Swiftboat politics", and you're all over that phrase like a wet mop without a real floor to clean. Now who is using smear tactics. I did something else instead. I searched Obama the same way you suggested and found...nada.

it's going to get worse ... (Below threshold)
wbgonne:

it's going to get worse for your side

Wanna bet? That sound you hear? It's the McCain-Palin Show getting its plug pulled. See you in November for President Obama's inaugural. GO AMERICA!

Wanna bet? That so... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Wanna bet? That sound you hear? It's the McCain-Palin Show getting its plug pulled.

Now you're hearing things. You really need to get that checked.

wbgonne: "That sound you... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

wbgonne: "That sound you hear? It's the McCain-Palin Show getting its plug pulled."

Judging from recent polls, McCain-Palin is getting great ratings. It's looking like Hopeychange is losing viewers like a sieve, though. You might want to be careful about hoping a plug gets pulled.


"See you in November for President Obama's inaugural."

Only in your fantasy politics league boyo, and btw the Inauguration for President McCain will be in January 2009.


"GO AMERICA!"

Yes indeed. We want it to go back to the top of the world, but judging from what you left in the trash at your convention, you want America to go to a landfill.

Wanna bet? That sound yo... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Wanna bet? That sound you hear? It's the McCain-Palin Show getting its plug pulled. See you in November for President Obama's inaugural. GO AMERICA!

OK, you and your moonbat friends have fun pretending you're at Obama's nomination in November. I'll wait for the real one in JANUARY. Maybe you'll be over the loss by then, but I hope not, because moonbat tears make the Baby Jesus smile.

"First, you never supported... (Below threshold)
max:

"First, you never supported your sleaze, you just claimed McCain had no honor and did not even try to support it."

That's never stopped you before, DJ. But just to show I'm better than you...http://www.mcclatchydc.com/staff/margaret_talev/story/52169.html
http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/apology_not_accepted.html

Second, I can understand why you are so desperate to cling to the myth that McCain's an "honorable" man since that is all he has, and if people find out the truth, he's done. But the truth is he's as slimy a sleazeball politician as ever there was.

Third, no shit the comment wasn't yours. I never said it was. But I couldn't help being reminded of one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Namely this, http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/03/26/the-lawyer-factor.php

Fourth, we are too talking about John McCain, you idiot. Unless Steve is defending Obama's honor, which I highly doubt. Did you even read the initial post? Try to stay on topic DJ. That'll get you disemvoweled with some other, more cowardly posters around here.

And finally, "Losers like JFO and max lack a moral center in their lives in the first place..." For all your overt religiosity, anyone who is so willing to put ideology ahead of truth wouldn't know morality or integrity if they bit you in the ass.

And Lawson, "McCain's demonstrated his honor, honesty and integrity." Yeah, 40 years ago. How long are you willing to let him coast on that? In the words of Janet Jackson, what has he done for us lately? I'll give you a hint, lie, lie, lie.

Gee max, hate much?<p... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Gee max, hate much?

You just do not get it.

As I said, and I do not mind repeating myself here, good. Spite-filled thugs like you only hurt your idol-boy candidate, but you don't understand it.

Yes, McCain has honor, try as you might to deny it. It's established well beyond dispute. All you are doing, when it comes down to it, is proving your side has none.

Tough for you.

Go cry to WizBlue.

anyone who is so w... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
anyone who is so willing to put ideology ahead of truth wouldn't know morality or integrity if they bit you in the ass.

There is no such thing as relative or convenient morality, max. Truth is a result of cause and effect. It's only when you are in denial of the effect (good or bad on others) that the cause becomes useless. You, in the above quote, have described your convenient ignorance perfectly.

Why are we even talking to ... (Below threshold)
sshiell:

Why are we even talking to slugs like LaMedusa or Max or any of the other Leftards out there. They do not even know the meaning of the word honor and don't even try and get an answer from them regarding terms like integrity and discipline. Beneath contempt is the absolute least you can say about them.

My god the trolls like Max ... (Below threshold)
Michael:

My god the trolls like Max here are such losers...probably are losers in life too. Explains why they support the American Zero a opposed to the American Hero.

sshiell-W... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

sshiell-

Why are we even talking to slugs like LaMedusa or Max or any of the other Leftards out there.

Not that I like talking to an ignoramus who can't read, but I am a libertarian. You don't do your party any good by being an example of the worst. My exchange with max is not your concern because you have no idea what I was saying, and I'll be happy never to talk to you. You are the very reason for the ill reputation republicans have received by the left. Your contempt will never bring peace to this world, nor make America strong again.

At least I can spell the wo... (Below threshold)
max:

At least I can spell the word "as" Michael, you dumbass.

sshiell - What LaMedusa said.

Oh, hey SOTG #18, I didn't ... (Below threshold)
max:

Oh, hey SOTG #18, I didn't see you there.
Piss off.

LeMedusa - "You are the... (Below threshold)
marc:

LeMedusa - "You are the very reason for the ill reputation republicans have received by the left. Your contempt will never bring peace to this world, nor make America strong again"

Of course we know the opposite is true also, or will you deny that?

And BTW, when has there EVER been peace in this world? To think anyone no matter political stripe or persuasion can edges into Code Pink territory.

It would have set a bad ... (Below threshold)
curious person:

It would have set a bad precedent. The North Vietnamese FORCING an evil running-dog lackey capitalist baby-bombing POW to leave? They'd have ended up a laughingstock.

But how would anyone know he was being forced? The North Vietnamese did have an advanced war propaganda machine. I would think they would throw him in solitary confinement for refusing. Take him out when it was time to go and tell everyone he went voluntatily.

I don't know, maybe it's just my reaction to Kerry thats making me skeptical of all war heros that become politicans. I don't like it, but thats the way I feel.

Oh, hey SOTG #18, ... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:
Oh, hey SOTG #18, I didn't see you there. Piss off.

Thanks Max!.., But it seems we are already pissing off a great many of you each and every day.

Thank you for bringing me so much joy!

marc-Of c... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

marc-

Of course we know the opposite is true also, or will you deny that?

Of course I won't deny it. My reaction was to sshiell's ignorance and lack of perception. His ill-informed reasoning is, "Why even talk to them," when in truth neither one of us was talking to him.

There is peace in many parts of the world, the idea is to work harder for it than against it. The same goes with the poor. Even Christ said "For you have the poor with you always," but he wasn't saying don't try to feed them. The emphasis is on the shift in priorities and making an effort toward the best possible outcome.

curious person -Um... (Below threshold)

curious person -

Um - the main (Geneva conventions) point behind having a POW is to keep them out of combat. Of course, the NV didn't exactly bother to play by the Geneva convention rules. If they let HIM go - ofr humanitarian reasons - he'd have been a walking testimony to the lie of the kindness of the 'Benevolent People's Republic of North Viet Nam'. The face they'd gain by magnanimously handing his sick butt over wouldn't have made up for what they'd have lost when his condition and treatment were revealed.

So why not just kill him off immediately, you may ask? Because a live prisoner is a bargaining chip, while a dead one is essentially worthless.

Wow, max is having an exist... (Below threshold)

Wow, max is having an existential meltdown. That's always so ugly to watch. *shudder*

If you don't like what someone does it doesn't automatically mark them as wrong

If you don't believe what someone says it doesn't automatically mark them as a liar

If you don't agree with what someone does it doesn't automatically mark them as evil

If you have trouble understanding why we might disagree with McCain on something he's done in the past, and even be angry with him, yet still consider him honorable, you don't know what the word means.

You might do better to question why Obama says one thing, yet has a long and varied past of doing just the opposite, and people still have "hope" that he'll do the right thing this time. I see nothing in his past that would lead me to believe things will change at all.

At least I can spell the... (Below threshold)
Clay:

At least I can spell the word "as"...you dumbass.

Now, Max. We've discussed this. This is not how we work and play well with others.

Oh, hey SOTG #18, I didn... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Oh, hey SOTG #18, I didn't see you there. Piss off.

Hey Son! You've developed a following. You must be proud.

JLawson: McCain sa... (Below threshold)
Curios person:

JLawson:

McCain said the North Vietnamese offered to release him, but that he would not go ahead of others who had been held longer. McCain said the torture grew worse because he refused. Since the North Vietnamese wanted to release him why didn't they just throw him in a van and force him to leave? I hate being cynical but it just doesn't make sense.

Perhaps they were going to release him to the Red Cross and he refused once they arrived. I don't know. Are there any war buffs out there that can provide an answer.

Hey Son! You've de... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:
Hey Son! You've developed a following. You must be proud.

Hey man, if the fish iz bitin'... heh

Curious Person -"S... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Curious Person -

"Since the North Vietnamese wanted to release him why didn't they just throw him in a van and force him to leave?"

He was a bargaining chip. If he'd taken the release voluntarily, the NV would have been able to use him as a propaganda tool. FORCING his release would have negated that, as well as put him out in front of the media and they didn't want him telling his story, as it would have been a propaganda liability.

He knew that, and acted with honor - even though it meant pain and disability. HE exhibited leadership that windbag Obama could only dream about.




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