As I watched last night's vice-presidential debate, I found myself nodding as Biden spoke and saying to myself, "Damn, he sounds good. But will he still sound as good once the fact checkers have their say?"
Naturally, he doesn't. Biden's mouth has a nigh-legendary rate of running so far ahead of the facts that it's often over the horizon and in a new time zone by the time he manages to finish talking. And last night was no exception.
The McCain team, which has shown it can be lightning-quick these days, sent out a list of "JOE BIDEN'S 14 LIES TONIGHT." I didn't get a copy, but enough other folks did that I can cut and paste it here -- this copy comes from Ace.
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted "the exact same way" as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, "Drill we must." But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to "raping" the Outer Continental Shelf."
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it's passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he's always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain's record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was "dead wrong on Iraq", because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn't see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn't meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of "part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20."
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
Now, several of those are fairly subjective -- the "Biden said McCain's/Obama's plan would do X, when it would do Y" kind of things. So I'll ignore those. Instead, let's look at the ones that are readily verifiable:
#2. Obama is on record as saying he would meet with Iran's Ahmenijad in his first year, without preconditions. Biden said he never said that. So Biden's mouth loses.
#3. Biden has been over the top about offshore drilling -- up until last night. Biden Bullshit again.
#5. Biden has also been a staunch opponent of ANY more coal power, and my Biden Bullshit Detector went off when he said he had long backed clean coal. Nice to know it's occasionally right.
#8. Palin's restructuring of the taxes Alaska imposes on oil companies was NOT a "windfall profits" tax, and to characterize it as such is either stupid or a blindly partisan lie. Of course, in Biden's case, the two are not mutually exclusive.
#9. Biden simply got it wrong on Afghanistan.
#10. A Biden lie by omission. Yes, McCain has championed deregulation in a lot of areas, but McCain's efforts to put MORE regulation and oversight on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are thoroughly documented -- as are the fierce fight Democrats put up to stop any such moves.
#11. Once again, Biden shows that the more confident he sounds, the less likely he is to be telling the truth. Biden voted AGAINST the first Iraq war, voted FOR the current war (but didn't really mean it), put forth a plan for partitioning Iraq that united nearly everyone in saying that Biden's plan was idiotic, and voted AGAINST the surge strategy that McCain championed.
#13: I dunno about this one, but it sounds right -- the specifics are too easily checked and disproven. And unlike Biden, I'm willing to give the assemblers of this list a bit of leeway when it comes to giving specific answers.
There. There's eight confirmed (well, seven confirmed and one highly probable) places where Joe Biden was clearly talking out of his ass.
But in a very convincing, very professional, very confident, very reassuring manner.
I may have to take back my earlier criticism of Biden as Obama's running mate. They seem pretty well-matched. They both can sound mightily presidential -- especially Biden last night, when he seemed to keep forgetting that he's the junior man on the ticket -- but utterly and completely lacking in substance. McCain and Palin have lists of accomplishments that they can point to and say "yeah, the other guys talk a good game, but we've actually promised to do stuff and then done it."
Thanks for the reassurance, Joe. It never hurts to have that.
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2008 Presidential Race
Comments (22)
GOVERNOR PALIN is 'real', a... (Below threshold)1. Posted by Gina | October 3, 2008 12:02 PM | Score: 9 (11 votes cast)
GOVERNOR PALIN is 'real', and Americans could feel it and connect with it. Palin is running for V.P ... but, let's take a look at the qualifications, judgement, and experience of Obama, who is running for President. Obama had 25 years to fulfill the potential he displayed as a rising start at Harvard Law School ... and, how did he live up to that potential? He chose to align himself with anti-American racist, Jeremiah Wright for TWENTY YEARS ... along with Ferrahkan, Rezko, Ayers, and others. As a community organizer, he registered thousands of voters in Chicago ... then, when he ran for the state legislature, he took away their votes, by disqualifying his opponent (a black woman) on a technicality. As a U.S. Senator, he voted present 160 times ... he never called a meeting on the Afghanistan committee he chaired (although he NOW says we must shift all our military from Iraq to Afghanistan). He claimed Foreign Policy experience from a 9 day whirlwind photo op to 6 countries. And, he spent almost half of his tenure neglecting his responsibilities as a U.S. Senator, so he could run for President. Senator McCain served America honorably for 22 years in the military. He proved his love for America, as well as his honor, integrity and character, by refusing early release as a P.O.W., even while being tortured. He served America as a 'contributing' U.S. Senator, working across the aisle, for 20 years. Governor Palin will learn the details of the current national and international issues ... but, what Obama never learned is Character. He can't be trusted ... ask Jeremiah Wright, a friend of 20 years, who Obama betrayed for personl ambition. The American people can recognize 'real' character and integrity in McCain and Palin, and that's why she won the debate by 87% on the FOX text messaging poll.
1. Posted by Gina | October 3, 2008 12:02 PM |
Score: 9 (11 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 12:02
2. Posted by Wordygirl | October 3, 2008 12:14 PM | Score: 8 (8 votes cast)
I couldn't bring myself to watch the debate live last night. I was deeply concerned that it would be the death knell for the McCain campaign. Immediately after the debate ended, I was able to glimpse a few moments of CNN (I was at my daughter's hockey game don'cha know)and the moment I saw their faces on the screen I KNEW she must have done an outstanding job. They are SO predictable. Of course, sure enough, all we're hearing from the morning's news is how according to the CNN polls, Joe Biden won. But I've seen enough clips to know that Joe looked like the typical pol he is, and she looked smart, articulate, and REAL. (By the way, what is WITH Joe Biden's eyes. Did he have an eye job? He is just hard to look at.)
2. Posted by Wordygirl | October 3, 2008 12:14 PM |
Score: 8 (8 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 12:14
3. Posted by Diogenes | October 3, 2008 12:14 PM | Score: 8 (8 votes cast)
The McCain campaign completely missed the Lebanon whopper...
3. Posted by Diogenes | October 3, 2008 12:14 PM |
Score: 8 (8 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 12:14
4. Posted by JohnMc | October 3, 2008 12:22 PM | Score: -5 (5 votes cast)
RE: Item # 7 - Health Insurance
Let's understand one thing clearly. If my employer starts to tax my health insurance coverage each time I get paid, that's a tax increase as far as I'm concerned. Any "tax credit" will be applied on my 1040 tax return and I should get either a bigger refund, or pay less income tax on April 15th.
Regardless, my paycheck will take a hit and I will have to adjust my weekly or monthly budget to accommodate that new tax.
Also, what about people who file 1040-EZ or 1040-A forms that don't take advantage of the more complex parts of the tax code. Will they still get there tax credit by filing one of these forms?
-written by a Reagan Conservative Republican
4. Posted by JohnMc | October 3, 2008 12:22 PM |
Score: -5 (5 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 12:22
5. Posted by Peter F. | October 3, 2008 12:47 PM | Score: 10 (10 votes cast)
When we kicked -- along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon...
I nearly spat out my drink all over my brand new 42" LCD TV at that one...
Even more disturbing? There's much to be said for HD TV, but being able to see Joe's hairplugs isn't one of them.
5. Posted by Peter F. | October 3, 2008 12:47 PM |
Score: 10 (10 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 12:47
6. Posted by P. Bunyan | October 3, 2008 12:51 PM | Score: 5 (5 votes cast)
"...clearly talking out of his ass.
But in a very convincing, very professional, very confident, very reassuring manner."
The term for that is "clintoning".
If Obama could clinton as well as Biden does they'd be 25 points ahead. Good thing he can't. Neither could Kerry. The Dems have got to realize this and pick their candidates accordingly.
6. Posted by P. Bunyan | October 3, 2008 12:51 PM |
Score: 5 (5 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 12:51
7. Posted by daveinboca | October 3, 2008 12:51 PM | Score: 10 (10 votes cast)
Biden is simply a non-starter. FWIW, I went to rehab in Boca this AM & about seven of the very well-educated 20-ish therapists were avidly discussing the debate [something I never saw happen after the BHO/JMcC tussle last week] and the only person who wasn't impressed with Sarah was a thirtyish dude who sets my gaydar off.... The women were all saying Sarah was "somebody you could talk to at the kitchen table." And to top it off, a thirty-something black gentleman named Khalid mentioned that Palin had "more executive experience," which kinda floored me.
And I'm a Cubs fan, so that's hard to do!
7. Posted by daveinboca | October 3, 2008 12:51 PM |
Score: 10 (10 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 12:51
8. Posted by PVD | October 3, 2008 1:27 PM | Score: 2 (2 votes cast)
You can add in the Hezbollah fiction that Peter F. brought up above, not knowing his US Constitution which has several more scholarly gents with their knickers in a knot and funding levels of Afganistan vs. Iraq.
All subjects that he was flat wrong and all within his Senate experience.
8. Posted by PVD | October 3, 2008 1:27 PM |
Score: 2 (2 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 13:27
9. Posted by Clay | October 3, 2008 1:33 PM | Score: 10 (10 votes cast)
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING:
"Can I clarify this? This is simply not true about Barack Obama. He did not say sit down with Ahmadinejad." -Sen. Joseph Biden, 10/2/08, Vice-Presidential Debates
QUESTION: "[W]ould you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?"...
OBAMA: "I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration - is ridiculous." (CNN/YouTube Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Charleston, SC, 7/23/07)
Watch Obama Say "I Would" Meet Unconditionally With Leaders Of Iran, North Korea, Syria, And Other Nations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Oj7Jn9rv4
CBS' HARRY SMITH: "You said, 'I will talk to so and so and Hugo Chavez and etc., etc.'"
OBAMA: "Exactly, and without preconditions." (CBS' "The Early Show," 10/15/07)
"There has been no confusion. I have been absolutely clear on this. I will meet not just with our friends but with our enemies. I will meet without preconditions. That does not mean I will meet without preparation. It is very important before any meeting to make sure that there is a list of agenda items that we are going to be talking about. But the difference is with me, for example, meeting with Iran, I would not expect that they would give in on critical issues like nuclear weapons before the meeting. The objective of the meeting would be to ensure that they stand down and that we've offered them carrots and sticks." (CNN's "The Situation Room," 2/4/08)
Obama Campaign Website: "Obama Is The Only Major Candidate Who Supports Tough, Direct Presidential Diplomacy With Iran Without Preconditions." "Diplomacy: Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress." (Obama Campaign Website, http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/, Accessed 5/15/08)
9. Posted by Clay | October 3, 2008 1:33 PM |
Score: 10 (10 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 13:33
10. Posted by WildWillie | October 3, 2008 1:45 PM | Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
It is starting to look like the least experience and least change is on the dem ticket. Wow! Thanks Joey. ww
10. Posted by WildWillie | October 3, 2008 1:45 PM |
Score: 4 (6 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 13:45
11. Posted by PatD | October 3, 2008 4:26 PM | Score: -7 (11 votes cast)
Hey, all you chimp herders get real.
Your candidate is dead in the water and sinking fast. The feminine witless wonder from the north has put the looney tune brand on what remains of the GOP. Pundits on the right whose breathless, rapturous hosannas of all things Republican were greeted with glee, are now bathing in the scorn of the party rank and file as they awkwardly point out the contradictions inherent in their candidates VP choice. Take a moment to think rationally while you look in the mirror and ask yourself what part you have had in allowing your party to drag the US down to where we find our nation today.
Oh wait, Clinton got a bj in the Oval Office. Jeez, I'm sorry, never mind, carry on.
11. Posted by PatD | October 3, 2008 4:26 PM |
Score: -7 (11 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 16:26
12. Posted by Peter F. | October 3, 2008 5:34 PM | Score: 4 (4 votes cast)
You know guys, I'm sorry, but PatD nailed it. He/she/it is so clearly and deeply right that it's undeniable now. He/she/it so cuts to the heart of my clearly shallow belief system that I can no longer live with myself lest I cast a vote for any GOP candidate.
Thank you, PatD, for helping me see the light in the error of my ways and for saving me from a GOP oblivion! I owe you everything! Please, tell me where do I send my check? To you or the DNC? Oh wait, I want to be saved now!!! Can I use a debit card?
12. Posted by Peter F. | October 3, 2008 5:34 PM |
Score: 4 (4 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 17:34
13. Posted by LaMedusa | October 3, 2008 5:50 PM | Score: 2 (2 votes cast)
This reminds me of those sites that turn up when you google something. The subject is there, but text is garbled nonsense. But wait, so is the subject here. Are the DU and Kos feed overflowing onto other blogs?
13. Posted by LaMedusa | October 3, 2008 5:50 PM |
Score: 2 (2 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 17:50
14. Posted by PatD | October 3, 2008 6:07 PM | Score: -6 (6 votes cast)
"You know guys, I'm sorry, but PatD nailed it."
-Peter F-
"This reminds me of those sites that turn up when you google something."
-LaMedusa-
Geez the boffo reviews are rolling in.
Thank you, Thank you and please keep your money(it's not worth a Bush turd anyway). Just keep spreading the love.
ps send me a card from the Elephant graveyard after the election.
14. Posted by PatD | October 3, 2008 6:07 PM |
Score: -6 (6 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 18:07
15. Posted by Brian | October 3, 2008 6:24 PM | Score: -4 (8 votes cast)
The McCain team, which has shown it can be lightning-quick these days, sent out a list of "JOE BIDEN'S 14 LIES TONIGHT."
Sarah Palin's 18 lies tonight
Palin wins!
15. Posted by Brian | October 3, 2008 6:24 PM |
Score: -4 (8 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 18:24
16. Posted by Clay | October 3, 2008 6:33 PM | Score: 5 (5 votes cast)
Palin wins!
That's a laughable list, Brian. Sheesh, mistaking McLellan for McKiernan is a lie?
16. Posted by Clay | October 3, 2008 6:33 PM |
Score: 5 (5 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 18:33
17. Posted by Clay | October 3, 2008 6:38 PM | Score: 3 (3 votes cast)
send me a card from the Elephant graveyard after the election.
Uh, okay. What was the name of your trailer park again?
17. Posted by Clay | October 3, 2008 6:38 PM |
Score: 3 (3 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 18:38
18. Posted by LaMedusa | October 3, 2008 6:41 PM | Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
Brian, this one is B.S., too:
10. GLOBAL WARMING: Palin said "I don't want to argue about the causes" for global warming, when she has clearly taken the position that she doesn't not believe it is man-made.
She didn't say she had no position, just that she didn't want to argue about it. This is understandable because the algores will go on and on to perpetuate his own personal cash cow.
18. Posted by LaMedusa | October 3, 2008 6:41 PM |
Score: 2 (4 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 18:41
19. Posted by LaMedusa | October 3, 2008 6:44 PM | Score: 3 (3 votes cast)
"Just keep spreading the love."
Pff! But don't do as you do, just as you say.
19. Posted by LaMedusa | October 3, 2008 6:44 PM |
Score: 3 (3 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 18:44
20. Posted by Brian | October 3, 2008 6:48 PM | Score: -6 (10 votes cast)
Yeah, and Jay found some on the Biden list "fairly subjective", and chose only 8 as "readily verifiable". There are some lame ones on both lists.
20. Posted by Brian | October 3, 2008 6:48 PM |
Score: -6 (10 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 18:48
21. Posted by Brian | October 3, 2008 11:11 PM | Score: -7 (7 votes cast)
Oh, one more.
21. Posted by Brian | October 3, 2008 11:11 PM |
Score: -7 (7 votes cast)
Posted on October 3, 2008 23:11
22. Posted by Son Of The Godfather | October 4, 2008 1:53 AM | Score: 5 (5 votes cast)
Sorry Brian, it's those damned "facts" again... What your "article" neglected to mention was the quote right after: "...it hasn't gone through yet, but we're working on it."
If you want to take partial quotes, feel free... but it will more than triple Biden's gaffe-a-palooza.
Jeeeez, thanks for tryin' lil' buckaroo.
22. Posted by Son Of The Godfather | October 4, 2008 1:53 AM |
Score: 5 (5 votes cast)
Posted on October 4, 2008 01:53