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Presidential Debate Number Two - Open Thread

Here's your chance to sound off, real-time, on tonight's debate.


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Comments (115)

I am reminded of Mussolini ... (Below threshold)
Dan Patterson:

I am reminded of Mussolini as Obama chatters about his version of "making the trains run on time". Huey Long is another character lurking in the shadows.

McCain is, well, starting slow but we'll see.

DP
Arrogant Infidel

McCain needs to shut Obama ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

McCain needs to shut Obama up by pinning the causes of this where it belongs on the Democrats.

Go McCain, he brought Obama... (Below threshold)
Mycroft:

Go McCain, he brought Obama's contributions from Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac to the discussion. Of course, Obama lies and says it wasn't...

Finally. McCain comes out ... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Finally. McCain comes out blasting. Obama made a mistake by saying that NOONE did anything.

Now he tries to change the argument. He comes out blasting Bush but now the audience isnt interested in hearing politicians point fingers. McCain should do a gotcha moment on this.

Frank Raines - Bob Johnson ... (Below threshold)

Frank Raines - Bob Johnson - Frank Raines - Bob Johnson. For the love of criminy, do those guys have pics of Sen. McCain having relations with farm animals !?! They are on obambis' FREAKING CAMPAIGN for crying out loud! He is going to blow it, and it's all his fault. What a loser.

Obama isn't answering the q... (Below threshold)
pjay:

Obama isn't answering the questions very well. I think McCain is doing a better job of answering. And he did finally put it to the Democrats. Tom sounds nervous.

Great! So far we have McCai... (Below threshold)

Great! So far we have McCain using lefty talking points ("greedy Wall streeters","$700 billion going to 'people who don't like us'", "wind, solar, clean coal")

Come on John, please say it,"DRILL BABY DRILL!".
Oh, that's right, it's all about "climate change" and "We must restructure loans for people so they can pay because of the greedy 'predators' who gave away, what is now, OUR money". Conservative my shiny metal bicuspid.

I was soooo wrong. If he ju... (Below threshold)

I was soooo wrong. If he just manages to mention the overhead projector one more time, I think the election will be in the bag. Way to go Senator!

Obama's already starting to... (Below threshold)
pjay:

Obama's already starting to miss his teleprompter, I think, on the making sacrifices part. He also doesn't want any part of cutting across the board. He keeps pushing the class differences.

Finally a good tax answer f... (Below threshold)

Finally a good tax answer from McCain.

You GO TOM!!!!<br ... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

You GO TOM!!!!


"Yes, Senator. I know you want to do your own thing, but I'm running this banana show. Now answer my question."

Doin a great job of shuttin him up.

I can't stand Obama. I real... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

I can't stand Obama. I realized it before, but he is making it abundantly clear tonight. He clearly has no clue what he is talking about. none at all.

does obama not realize that... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

does obama not realize that a $300 billion tax cut would equal a LOT more income to the government through the simple idea of money being taxed when it changes hands????

what an effing ignoramus!!!... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

what an effing ignoramus!!!!!!!

For the love of Pete!!! Sh... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

For the love of Pete!!! Shut up about "reaching across the eisle" already, McCain. We got it the first 100 times. Get on to giving your message!!!

I love it. McCain: "We ne... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

I love it. McCain: "We need to get rid of the cronies in Washington."

McCain again, referring to understand Obama's economic plan is like "trying to nail jello to the wall". LOL!

YEAH!!! Way to go pluggin'... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

YEAH!!! Way to go pluggin' the Nuclear Navy!!!

Nuclear Navy all the way, baby!!!

Shut up about "rea... (Below threshold)
Shut up about "reaching across the eisle"
Don't hold yer breath.

Oh great, here he goes with why I wasn't going to vote for him before Sarah. The environment.
WHAT A FREAKING BOZO !!!

climate change? seriously? ... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

climate change? seriously? vain as all hell to think we have a role in the change of the climate... vain as all hell

Oh great, here he goes with... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

Oh great, here he goes with why I wasn't going to vote for him before Sarah. The environment.
WHAT A FREAKING BOZO !!!

damned right,

i received a survey by heritage.org and when they asked who i was voting for for prez, i put PALIN in big letters and mccain in little letters. and in that order. Palin is launching her career here, mccain is ending his. lets hope that he can end on a heroes note by boosting a patriot and warrior like palin.

vain as all hel... (Below threshold)

vain as all hell
He needs to LISTEN to Sarah and stop shuttin' her up. He might learn sumpin. Vain is BOTH these guys middle names.

Why the fuck would we spend... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Why the fuck would we spend all the R&D money on new energy tech... and then turn it over to China?!?!?! Make them pay for their own damned R&D. That's how you stay AHEAD of the rest of the world. Doi.

McCain is a weak-ass candid... (Below threshold)
Alan Orfi:

McCain is a weak-ass candidate. If I hear he wants to reach across the aisle one more time, my head will explode. We discussed months ago why we needed a candidate like Huckabee and we are now seeing today that I was absolutely right. McCain is giving this election away because he simply will not fight back. When your opponent says he's giving tax breaks to 95% of the working public when only 65% of them actually pay taxes in the first place, you don't respond with this "reaching across the aisle" crap. Enough of McCain... I'm looking toward 2012 because this moron has lost it for us this year.

Earlier, Obama said (lied) ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Earlier, Obama said (lied) that he sent a letter a couple of years ago about the mortgage crisis, McCain said he wanted to see that letter. Booyah!

Obama was blathering all over himself about energy when Brokaw came in and said "We have red and green lights around here" reminding them of time limits. Then Obama said he was just trying to keep up.

i would love to see mccain ... (Below threshold)
Dave W.:

i would love to see mccain start break-dancing in the background while obomber is talking. would be amazing

When your opponen... (Below threshold)
When your opponent says he's giving tax breaks to 95% of the working public when only 65% of them actually pay taxes
That is whats called watching a hanging curve ball go floating by. What a moron. Apparently all of his balls are in the ads, because he's coming off as a freaking unich here. WHAT A LAME ASS!
I want to hear what this du... (Below threshold)
Imhotep:

I want to hear what this dumbass has to say about health care, but I must tivo it. Can someone explain the stupidity and drivel forthcoming from the Obamassiah?

and i agree. McCain is the ... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

and i agree. McCain is the weakest candidate we could have put up this year. Does anyone think it would be close if it were Thompson v Obama? Hells no. Thompson/Palin ticket would be the most amazing ticket of all time. Thompson may have picked another VP, but I can still dream dammit. Thompson has balls. McCain has Scholls. dammit

Transportable health insura... (Below threshold)
mpw:

Transportable health insurance and interstate sourcing of health insurance. Cure the health insurance problem right there. Loved the baseball bat to the hair transplants of bumblin biden. mpw

Oy Vey!!! "Hair Transplant... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Oy Vey!!! "Hair Transplants"?!?!?! Leave the "funny schtick" at home.

Can we reconvene the conven... (Below threshold)

Can we reconvene the convention and flip the ticket? What a waste of Sarah, our greatest shining light for the furure. What a freaking waste.

McCain is not doing as well... (Below threshold)
twolaneflash:

McCain is not doing as well as I had hoped and Obama is doing better. McCain is repeating himself with tiring lines, still not catching the easiest ones. Why does McCain not ask how Obama can lower taxes on 95% of Americans when 30% pay NO TAXES already? The lies slide out of Obama's mouth like honey. Obama can provide all things to all people at no cost. Healthcare is a right! Time to update the bugout plans.

Fred and Sarah. Wow, that ... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Fred and Sarah. Wow, that would have been something to see.

Hey, trash McCain once he's... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Hey, trash McCain once he's "President-elect", OK? Right about now let's focus on priorities, please.

Obama's stumbling on the he... (Below threshold)
pjay:

Obama's stumbling on the healthcare issue! I think McCain sounds much more smooth and knowledgeable.

McCain is McCain, for sure.... (Below threshold)
DC:

McCain is McCain, for sure. But I actually think he's cleaning up pretty good tonight. Obama has that goofy smirk in the background. I think he looks small on the stage next to McCain in this format.

Health care is a RIGHT??</... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Health care is a RIGHT??

What next? Owning a car is a right so therefore the govt must buy everyone a car.

SO much for the constitution Obama.


Here's the point DJ: We are... (Below threshold)

Here's the point DJ: We are watching him BLOW IT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND!?!

Hell yeah, owning a car is ... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Hell yeah, owning a car is a right. You didn't catch Obama saying he'd have the government give consumer insentives (ie... buy part of the vehicle) for "fuel efficient cars".

Obama: "socialism, socialis... (Below threshold)

Obama: "socialism, socialism, socialism! Free everything for EVERYBODY!!!"

McCain: "Uh, I'm a 'maverick'. Betcha didn't know that, didja?"

Holy cow. Barry O just use... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Holy cow. Barry O just used the word "Change" 4 times in the same sentence.

Never thought all the parody would be so true.

Wow. The Obama Doctrine is... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Wow. The Obama Doctrine is PAINFUL to listen too. Give him back his teleprompter.

Did you notice how Obama pa... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Did you notice how Obama paused after he said "We may not always have national security.....at stake"? Uhhhh??

OK, I'm forgiving when it c... (Below threshold)

OK, I'm forgiving when it comes to a contested three pointer. But Obama just brought a ladder on to the floor, handed McCain the ball and asked him to drop it through the hoop.

Obama just said that DELAWARE was a get anything you want banking state and McCain let that statement pass.

Unforgivable

Home run on military policy... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Home run on military policy for McCain. Peppered Barry O while he was at it too.

McCain doing "the stump spe... (Below threshold)

McCain doing "the stump speech thing" to people he HAS TO WIN OVER. I'm done. He's dumb. It's over...unless Mrs. C has something up her sleave...
(I don't wanna hear it DJ. He has to be DEMONSTRABLY better. He failed. It's over. Face it.)

McCain did not "blow" anyth... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

McCain did not "blow" anything Mark.

YOU gave up on winning weeks ago, and you just want to justify it.

Just admit it, you Quitter.

Obama LOVES people like you.

The left is counting on peo... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

The left is counting on people like Mark. It did work in '06...

Dave W,We sure fou... (Below threshold)
Alan Orfi:

Dave W,

We sure fought a lot before the South Carolina primary and we actually both had the same ideas in mind. Good grief, our common nightmare is coming to fruition tonight. I loved Fred too (and got to shake his hand a year ago), but I thought Huckabee was best suited to combat the evil lies on the other side. Next time around, true conservatives need to unite and never let this happen again.

Druge poll shows McCain at ... (Below threshold)
Prairie:

Druge poll shows McCain at 72% and poor little Obama at 25%

Obama sounds like a bumblin... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

Obama sounds like a bumbling fool, and IS a bumbling fool on foreign policy. He said he wouldn't attack pakistan, and then said it was the right thing to do!! seriously?? This man is an idiot!! I can't believe this man is on the cusp of election. He is completely unelectable, yet the ignorant state of the populace here is keeping him within sights of the presidency.

I sure hope there is some typical media playup of democrats in the polls, or some bradley effect here, because in a normal election year, this should be a huge Republican landslide.

Obama falling all over hims... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Obama falling all over himself about Russia. He knows nothing of Putin's plans and the bombing that went on in Georgia.

Delaware is the state Joe B... (Below threshold)
MPR:

Delaware is the state Joe Biden his running mate comes from. What a bone head!

Alan,I thought Hucka... (Below threshold)
Dave W:

Alan,
I thought Huckabee was as Ill-suited to handle these things as McCain, but i change my mind. Huckabee is better on his feet. He is a populist at heart, yet he has better political instinct than McCain. McCain's instinct (other than choosing Palin) has been mostly terrible. Honorable campaign? who needs that?

Oooooo. Global Permission ... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Oooooo. Global Permission Question to assist Isreal. This should be interesting...

McCain shows he's got the right idea and the right stance. "League of Democracy's"?!?!?! Too close to "League of Nations" and we all know how well THAT worked out. *CoughWW2Cough*

Now for Barry's answer... sanctions, energy independence, talk with our global partners...

No answer about actually HELPING ISREAL if they get attacked.

WHIFF!!!!

Obama is the poor down trod... (Below threshold)
Prairie:

Obama is the poor down trodden - sure. He is a made man from Chicago.

To some it up, a lot of the... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

To some it up, a lot of the same old, same old. Lot of redundant answers. Well what did you expect?

Look, McCain didn't even tr... (Below threshold)

Look, McCain didn't even try. HE gave up. Any moron on this blog could've taken obambi apart.
example: "Sen Obama, why wouldn't you even TALK TO Gen. Patreaus, but you DID try to get the Iraqis to keep our forces there til 2010 AT LEAST. Yet, when America is going through "THE WPRST FINANCIAL CRISIS SINCE THE DEPRESSION", you just said, "Call me if you need me".

You don't have a case DJ. Neither do you have a candidate. He's a joke. He lost ground after the last one, and he will fall even lower after this one. You can't see the loser for your hopes of him. WAKE UP. You are coming off as as big a fool as your heroe.

Go back to France, Mark.</p... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Go back to France, Mark.

AMERICANS don't quit, so you can just stop teh act.

What exactly was Brokaw goi... (Below threshold)
Imhotep:

What exactly was Brokaw going to do? Charge him electoral college votes?!!!

Stupid.

Obama - "the computer was o... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Obama - "the computer was orignally invented by a bunch of government scientist"..

say huh ?

Nice substantive response t... (Below threshold)

Nice substantive response there Deej. Can you say HOW I am wrong? Take my example, couldn't he have said ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE TO THAT?

Oh, I see.

You know, it occurs to me t... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

You know, it occurs to me that it was the same old, redundant answers because the questions have been pretty much the same. There are a lot of other issues: gun control, abortion, immigration, judicial activism, for example. Gosh I wonder why Tom didn't pick any of those questions.

Look, McCain didn'... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Look, McCain didn't even try. HE gave up. Any moron on this blog could've taken obambi apart.

Mark, you need to cool down. I agree that some of McCain's approach was a little soft, but he didn't really have to yell or stamp his feet. Obama tripped himself up with his stumbling rhetoric, and McCain definitely established himself as more knowledgeable.

A lot of other blogs said B... (Below threshold)
MPR:

A lot of other blogs said Brokaw was awful. These journalists are so full of themselves they get in the way of what could have been a better debate.

RE:61. That's not entirely... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

RE:61. That's not entirely untrue, Mike. Of course the government (leftist-Obama ideology)made computers as big as a house. Capitolism (the antithesis of leftist-Obama ideology) made them into notebooks.

It was funny when Brokaw "r... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

It was funny when Brokaw "reminded" them of the red and green lights, but didn't make more of a point of guiding the time constrictions. Also funny was when McCain and Obama went to shake hands and blocked Brokaw. He had to look over McCain's head. lol.

I thought McCain handled th... (Below threshold)
Larry:

I thought McCain handled the Pakistan question very well. He scored.

He also seemed to kick Obama with his answer to the Israel question as well.

On health care, he bombed. We don't need another dang tax kickback. In fact, I think Obama bombed as well, like we need the government to handle health care? Nuts!

Obama seems to think Americ... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Obama seems to think American history started 8 years ago and his personal history started last June.

I really wish when health c... (Below threshold)
COgirl:

I really wish when health care came up that McCain had commented that the main reason that health care costs are on the rise is because of lawsuits. You want to control costs, you limit claims.

But I thought McCain won the debate. I'm surprised at the (Fox) reaction. To me Obama showed how naive he is. He blabbed as though he was impressed with the sound of his own voice.

Dave,I think there... (Below threshold)
Alan Orfi:

Dave,

I think there is an enormous difference between populism and "reaching across the aisle". I didn't think that the influx of Mexican labor was a particularly important election-year topic and Huckabee's "populist" approaches were reasonable. But where McCain sold out on any last vestiges of conservative principles regarding the bailout, Huck was pleading conservatives to stand tough.

I am in complete agreement with you on Fred being the truest conservative of the bunch... I just didn't see him holding the capacity to fight and I bailed on him early. The lesson learned here is that we conservatives damn well better solve our petty differences next time. Hopefully we will have a true candidate in 2012 who will galvanize us, but we can NEVER end up with an aisle-crosser again.

Thanks for speaking the tru... (Below threshold)
Alan Orfi:

Thanks for speaking the truth tonight Mark. Yes, it pains many of us deeply to consider the prospect of a Marxist as our next leader, but some of us need to stand up and scream to McCain that reaching across the aisle is not going to cut it anymore. When Reagan reached across the aisle, it was to slap someone.

DJ is right in that the race is not over, but this approach is going to lose. Frankly I am stunned by McCain's unwillingness to directly address the numerous Obama lies. He may have "won" tonight's debate, but it was like kicking a field goal when you're 12 points down.

I really do not know how Se... (Below threshold)
Robert Page:

I really do not know how Senator Obama is a candidate for president of the United States of America. I say that and I am black. He has no experience. He has no record of accomplishments. He is able to basically say trust me, and it appears because he is eloquent in how he communicates this line that 48% of the American Public is willing to do so.

If you are McCain, how do you debate someone who can create policies as he responds to a particular question. You are unable to prove him wrong, because he does not have anything you can point too.

The American people seem hell-bent on putting man in the office of president who 8 years ago could not win a seat in congress. Conversely, we are willing to vote against a man, who has sacrificed life, limb and career because right or wrong, he did what he thought was in the best interest of the country.

To say that I am sad tonight, would be an understatement. I don't understand... I don't understand...

Wrong analogy, Alan.<... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Wrong analogy, Alan.

What is it with the quitters and 'we lost already' crap?

You been reading the NYT again, or is it the PMSNBC propaganda that got to you?

And by the way, Fred quit months ago. I love the guy, but he's not the answer, and he's not an option this year. You got McCain, or you got Mister Happy Socialist. You can do what it tekas to get McCain elected and build for Palin's run, or you can just give up and cry in the gutter.

Gut it up.

Re: P. BunyanActua... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Re: P. Bunyan

Actually, it is untrue. I believe what Obama was confusing was 'computer' and 'internet'. While the internet is a child of DARPA, the computer was not 'originally invented by a bunch of government scientist'.

Robert Page, amen!... (Below threshold)

Robert Page, amen!

I am a registered Republican, who has voted for Democrats and Independents nearly as much as Republicans since he registered to vote...too many years ago.

I have ALWAYS voted for the man or woman that I thought had the best experience for the job at stake...regardless of ANYTHING!

For America to be turning to someone with ZERO experience, and a history of associations that would very likely cause him to FAIL a security-clearance background check is ALARMING!

Talk is cheap, folks. One man in this race has truly demonstrated that he does indeed put America FIRST! I don't agree with McCain on a lot of things...but I agree with him on that!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!... (Below threshold)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, this is why these "debates" bore most Americans. Tom Brokow "moderating" this "town hall"? PLEASE! No questions were really new. Unless you count that last important one! Supposedly there were SIX MILLION-thats 6,000,000-that came from the internet. And Terrible Tom starts with one from a 78 year old fossil about "sacrifice"! Which is why ANY questions that come from the net should be moderated by a respectable blogger. In fact, that is what is missing. The whole commission on debates is ran by fossils, the "moderators" that are chosen are fossils. It is just maddening. Having written all of this, by the slimmest of margins, Sen. McCain won the debate. He was very personable and made an effort to answer people's "chosen" questions. Sen. Obama went on the talking points as much as possible. But, this whole commission needs new blood and a better format that would be for new media. This was just a ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Robert Page: "I say that an... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Robert Page: "I say that and I am black."

Well, I'm white and I say McCain is mentally unfit to be POTUS, so what's your fucking point?

McCain wouldn't shake Obama's hand after the debate, and referred to him as "That one" when referring to Obama's support for the Bush-Cheney energy bill of '07. Pretty indecent.

While you people nitpick Obama's misstatements and blunders for the next few days, the media will continue to reinforce the public's perception of McCain--that he's a cranky, uncivilized old man. Took his former fluffers in the MSM eight years to see his pathetic "maverick" act for the disingenuous affectation that it is, and thankfully they will see to it that he never achieves that office which he arrogantly perceives to be his birthright.

DJ, the way you addressed Mark throughout this thread is the funniest stuff I've read all day. Insolent fool, clap harder or the socialists will breach the walls!!! If you lived in Soviet Russia you'd make a swell commissar.

Took his former fluffers... (Below threshold)
ExSubNuke:

Took his former fluffers in the MSM eight years to see his pathetic "maverick" act for the disingenuous affectation that it is, and thankfully they will see to it that he never achieves that office...

Well, at least ONE of you guys is acknowledging that the MSM is in the tank and is actively TRYING to keep McCain out of the office. That's what passes for "journalism."

McCain keeps talking about ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

McCain keeps talking about his chief selling point to be President as someone 'who has reached across the aisle" ..to Lieberman. Is Lieberman still across the aisle? He seems pretty joined at the hip with McCain. He spoke at the Republican Convention and was McCain`s personal favorite to be veep, until Rove stepped in.

Well, I'm white an... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Well, I'm white and I say McCain is mentally unfit to be POTUS, so what's your fucking point?

You're also Canadian and not voting in this election, so who cares about whom you think is mentally unfit?

McCain wasn't cranky ENOUGH... (Below threshold)

McCain wasn't cranky ENOUGH! He should have worked THIS into the answer on national defense (from what the Navy Chief asked).

When I raised my hand to swear to defend this country it included defending this country against all enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC! Enemies like domestic terrorist William Ayers, a man who despises this country, and wants nothing more than to see America humbled if not destroyed!
I could NEVER associate with such a man, and frankly Senator, am outraged that you DID!

THAT would have scored!!!

I really would have liked t... (Below threshold)
Clint:

I really would have liked to see McCain jumping on Obama's errors more:

- Obama said he'd respond to Darfur with a No-Fly Zone. This has to be one of the dumbest policy suggestions ever. The Janjaweed militias DO NOT HAVE AN AIR FORCE. So just whose flights would we be interdicting??? McCain should have hammered on Obama's painfully shallow understanding of even the foreign policy issues he claims to care about.

- Obama said he's going to require health insurance providers to charge less money for the same benefits. This was the moment to explain how government-mandated sub-prime loans caused the banking collapse. This was the moment to coin the phrase "sub-prime health insurance" and paste it to Obama's forehead.

- Obama would absolutely be willing to invade Pakistan (turning a nuclear-armed ally into an enemy) to get bin Laden, but is unwilling to commit to using military force to defend Israel if it's attacked. McCain should have pounced: Obama says he'll strengthen our alliances abroad -- but is willing to casually toss one aside; to tell our other allies that our security assurances are dependent on Russia and China agreeing to let us help; and let us not forget, friends, that this is the first presidential candidate in my lifetime who has managed to create serious diplomatic incidents with two of our allies before even securing the nomination of his party. Imagine the incidents he would create as President. Dangerous.

- Obama continues to spit out the canard about the U.S. consuming 25% of the world's oil, but having only 3% of the world's reserves. The 3% figure doesn't include the enormous resources that it is currently illegal to exploit -- like offshore oil, ANWR, shale oil, etc... He further repeated the nonsense about oil companies not exploiting the resources they already have access to. Perhaps it's going to be up to Palin to explain these issues in the next few weeks (God, I hope so!!) but it still would have been nice to hear McCain scoff at them -- even if he left the explanation of why they are laughable for later.

Justrand-God, I wi... (Below threshold)
Clint:

Justrand-

God, I wish he'd said that.

But I understand why he didn't. I had a similar wish that he'd answer the "What don't you know?" question with "I have no idea who Barack Obama is -- do you?" -- but it would have been a dumb way to end the debate. He needed to give the closing statement that he gave.

DJ,I did not say t... (Below threshold)
Alan Orfi:

DJ,

I did not say the race is lost, but rather, this APPROACH is going to lose. We cannot defeat liberalism with liberalism. McCain blew an enormous opportunity with the bailout tragedy, but copped out to his liberal instincts. He could have stayed with his principles and demanded non-governmental solutions... and would have had tremendous footing tonight in demonstrating that this solution did nothing to help the markets.

I haven't said boo about the McCain campaign's failures until I lost it tonight. Obviously it is of paramount importance to save our country from the clutches of Marxism. But conservatives absolutely need to scream out loud right now because McCain just isn't getting it. He is going to lose unless he changes his strategy. He must call out Obama on all the lies. He must explain that 95 percent of wage-earners cannot get tax cuts when only 65 percent actually pay taxes. He must describe in detail the utter destruction that tax hikes will bring to our economy. He needs to go ahead and discuss issues like Obama's vote on the Born Alive bill. Do you realize that McCain is the only one discussing climate change. For God's sake, they don't even call it global warming now and it's OUR guy that keeps bringing it up!! This isn't about "gutting it up", but rather, a call for an immediate change in strategy. He absolutely will lose this election otherwise.

Obama won the debate. McCai... (Below threshold)
Hansel2:

Obama won the debate. McCain lost. The majority of the polls agree with this. McCain came across as stiff and nervous throughout the first half, repeated himself not to hammer through a point, but because he had nothing else to offer. And his mortgage plan? Sounds even more liberal than anything Obama has offered.

McCain's deflection of a handshake will resonate like Bush Sr.'s watch glance.

Sorry. Just the facts.

# 73. Robert PageY... (Below threshold)
MichaelC:

# 73. Robert Page

Your statement felt as thought it came from my own heart. I would have to add that terror literally grips that heart every time I pause to consider the dark possibility of an Obama presidency.

I became a Special Forces radio operator in 1967 and some time after that I found out from acquaintances of mine that the FBI had been by to see them and ask about my background. My security clearance required it. Barack Obama could not withstand even this standard type of security clearance as I am quite sure that I would not have gotten the clearance with the same background as this pretender to the Presidency. Justrand mentioned this above and I wanted to lend a bit more substance to his observation.

I'm sure that everyone in this thread noticed precisely the point where the hatred and slander inserted itself. As gloomy as the thread may have seemed up to this point, there were at least honest men and women in conversation with one another who felt no need to stoop so low. But that's a style of the left that is as blatant as Obama's obfuscations though we here on the right do not immediately ban these petty voices as would Kos and DU.

Hang in there friends. DJ is right. It ain't over yet. But that is something that the left would like us to believe.

OBOMBa proved beyond any do... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

OBOMBa proved beyond any doubt that he cannot talk without a teleprompter. He recited what his handlers told him to say. McCain actually answered the questions asked, because he knows what his plan is. Hands down OBOMBa lost. Not because McCain was so good, because Barry was so bad. You know it and I know it.

Hyperbolist, why don't you rent a VW van and take your entire military might out to lunch. You all have been riding the wave of our sacrifices too long. Why has Canada, or it's citizens had an impact on the world? ww

I noticed Obumble stated hi... (Below threshold)

I noticed Obumble stated his confidence that the current economic downturn would not be long. I guess he believes that the fundamentals are strong too.

Its equally plausible that he is just an empty head that spouts whatever nonsense he needs to to get elected.

MichaelCM... (Below threshold)
Larry:

MichaelC

My security clearance required it. Barack Obama could not withstand even this standard type of security clearance as I am quite sure that I would not have gotten the clearance with the same background as this pretender to the Presidency

Every once in a while, someone says something that is just out of the ball park. And you just did it for me.

Home run MichaelC, home run.

Willie, look up World Wars ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Willie, look up World Wars I & II and the Korean War. Also, Desert Storm I.

When it made sense, morally and practically speaking, we participated in armed conflict. We entered both World Wars well before the United States did, not for reasons of political expedience or bald self-interest but because it was the right thing to do.

So go read a book that isn't published by Regnery Press you ignorant clod. There's all these facts floating around this world of ours, it's odd you've bumped into so few of them on your way to forming your ridiculous world view.

"Hands down OBOMBa lost"? Tell that to a majority of Americans who watched the debate. Good work with the childish name calling, though--keep fighting the good fight!

The left is counti... (Below threshold)
The left is counting on people like Mark. It did work in '06...
No, the left is counting on performances like the egg Mccain just laid.

Back in 2006 I was scolding the idiots myself with this blog.

Bulletin: McCain is losing. That means: He must do something to distinguish himself from the guy (who along with the press is kicking his lame arse) who is beating him. That means do something BIG.

I am dying a tortourusly slow financial death, and instead of, "We're America! We can work our way out of anything!", I got, "I'm with the government, and I'm here to bail you out." As bad as things are(borrowing over $1,000 a month for the last 2 years straight), I actually thought about looking into McCains new welfare for the working class, but oh yeah that's right, the guy he is trying to out give away America with, has already promised tax breaks for millions who don't pay taxes.

summary: I came to see a fight and I was left in terrible want. I will vote for Sarah, but unless something unforseeable happens, this is over because our fighter is still in the dressing room trying to get his mouth piece over his dentures.

The USofA is such a great c... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

The USofA is such a great country, people from all over the world want to either be here or want us to help them financially or with humanitarian aid. Canada, not so much. The only time people flock to your country is when the are cowards in this country and run up there. You, of course, accept them, because you relate to them? You can have them. Canada is a spec in the entire world stage. The redheaded step child of England and always riding the wave of others sacrifices.

My advice to you: Read your history and honestly ask yourself if your country is relevant in the perspecitve of the global community. You won't like the answer. ww

WildWillie, I live in a cit... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

WildWillie, I live in a city where over 50% of the occupants were born in other countries. It's the largest city in Canada. Vancouver also has a majority with non-European heritage now, and Montréal and Halifax have enormous immigrant populations as well.

While I wouldn't expect you to know much about Canada, you sure talk as though you have the slightest clue what goes on in my country. You haven't, obviously, but you're not one to let ignorance get in the way of opining on the internet, are you.

I forgot to include Afghanistan among the wars we fought in, on behalf of other nations' interests. So, you're welcome. Prick.

By the way:The ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

By the way:

The only time people flock to your country is when the are cowards in this country and run up there.

That's some grasp of the English language you got there, oh wild one.

Hyper, your grasp of US his... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Hyper, your grasp of US history and how and what we are is very much lacking yet you keep posting your idiotic rants, with juvenile name calling. The last act of a losing argument is the name calling and swearing. Grow up my immature little canadian friend. ww

No, Willie, as your country... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

No, Willie, as your country is the most relevant and important of any in the world, I am more familiar with what transpires there (politically and culturally) than many Americans. (Blame your public school system, video games, Ritalin, or whatever--I don't care.) To understand the world requires one to understand America to a certain extent.

"Ignoramus" is not the same thing as "asshole". An ignoramus is one who is ignorant. You said people do not want to live in Canada, and I explained why you're wrong, ignorantly so. It's a descriptive term. If I wanted to resort to childish name-calling, I'd come up with something more clever than oBOMBa.

The "Prick" remark was warranted as you said we hide behind America when it comes to defense, whereas the fact of the matter is we fought the Nazis three years before you, and punched above our weight in the two most important conflicts in the history of western civilization (WW I and WW II). So I stand by the remark, as you're a prick to imply that we shy away from conflict when the opposite is the case. Prick.

While I wouldn't ... (Below threshold)
maggie:
While I wouldn't expect you to know much about Canada, you sure talk as though you have the slightest clue what goes on in my country. You haven't, obviously, but you're not one to let ignorance get in the way of opining on the internet, are you.

Hyperbolist:
The above post by you could be just
as well be applied to you. Just by
changing the name.

Thanks Maggie. That is my p... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Thanks Maggie. That is my point but I don't know if it is my not being clear or his inability to see it. He thinks he knows the US by books and selective video's, but he has not lived it. He is a lefty with the usual pseudo intellectual long nosed attitude. See, we are on ridlin, playing gameboys and such. We aren't as "enlightened" as the canadian guy. But you see, in his mind, I am the prick. Wow! He helps my case. ww

I took American history cou... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I took American history courses in university (as electives), currently read two of your dailies, browse lots of political blogs (left and right), read various news websites, and stay in close touch with lots of American friends (liberals and conservatives) from various parts of the U.S.. Living in a country where relatively little happens, with a pretty insignificant global presence, I have more of an opportunity to stay abreast of both domestic and foreign goings-on.

So no, maggie, the reverse does not apply. Living outside of the United States does not make one ignorant of the inner workings of your country. Similarly, Willie could learn a thing or two about Canada (though I'm not sure why he would); I'm sure, though, that rather than shut up about something he doesn't understand, he'll continue to make sweeping generalizations about a nation as diverse as politically and culturally diverse as any on the planet, because that's his M.O.

Yes, Willie, you're still a prick for stating that Canadians don't carry their weight in international conflicts. We had the best non-German soldiers in the first World War, flew fighter planes during the Battle of Britain, took one of the most heavily defended beaches in Normandy on D-Day, and suffered the horrors of Japanese prison camps after being overrun by overwhelming forces in Hong Kong. We fought in Busan, Seoul, and Pyongyang in the Korean War, and helped liberate Kuwait during the first Gulf War. So, again: you have the opportunity to say "Oh, I didn't know that. Sorry." Or, you can continue to be an ignorant prick.

I never claimed to be "enli... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

I never claimed to be "enlightened", by the way, so your use of quotation marks is puzzling. Open-minded and intellectually curious, sure, but whether or not one is enlightened is hardly a matter of first-person evaluation.

I'm sure, though,... (Below threshold)
maggie:
I'm sure, though, that rather than shut up about something he doesn't understand, he'll continue to make sweeping generalizations about a nation as diverse as politically and culturally diverse as any on the planet, because that's his M.O.

You're sure, though, that rather than shut
up about something you don't understand,
you'll continue to make sweeping
generalizations about a nation as diverse
as politically and culturally diverse as
any on the planet, because that's your M.O.

Hyperbolist: You don't live here, every
day as a citizen or legal immigrant, but
it doesn't stop you from making general
sweeping povs about our politics, or our
culture. Rock, meet glass window.

Here's some real canadian d... (Below threshold)
maggie:

Here's some real canadian diversity for you,
under threat over coffee cups.

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194361.php

Maybe the coffee vendors can make the cups so
thin they can be used as toilet paper afterwards.

WTF? We, and many states, h... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

WTF? We, and many states, have deposit-return programs in place when it comes to aluminum cans and other containers (usually alcohol). These programs are effective in reducing waste and the carbon footprint of packaging industries. (Eight times less energy to recycle a glass beer bottle than to make a new one, etc.)

Every waste bin I walk past is jammed full of Starbucks and Tim Horton's cups. They overflow onto sidewalks. If implementing a 5 or 10 cent deposit on a cup will significantly reduce the amount of cups in landfills and on streets, and encourage people to carry their own washable thermal cups, that is a good thing, pure and simple. Personally, I'd stack Starbucks cups on my desk for a week or two and then bring them in, or give them to a homeless person. The penalty for not returning a cup? Forfeiting a nickel or dime or whatever. OMG, it's a police state!!!!!!

I'm sorry Maggie, what the hell is your point? That this is some indication of the decline of my society? I just spent a week at Hilton Head Island where even aluminum cans are sent to landfills. You want to condescend to a Canadian about the proper way to manage waste?

I don't make generalizations about "America" as a whole. I'm not an idiot. As I said, I just spent a week in South Carolina, and drove through a bunch of states that have more differences than some European countries do from one another. My friends from Houston are very dissimilar from my friends from NYC or San Francisco. And when I do make a generalization about the entire country or its culture, it's within a context that makes sense, e.g a federal election, or the overall suckitude of contemporary mainstream country western music.

Willie, though, likes to say things like "Canada is [insert pejorative]", or "Canadians do [insert pejorative]". That's idiotic, straight-up.

We have gun-toting glibertarian rednecks, tree hugging hippy idiots, and everyone between. Yes, we have a stupid kangaroo court of censorship which I do not support, but when all that court did was protect Zionists from Arabists and anti-Semites, I didn't hear much bitching and braying from south of the border.

I don't make g... (Below threshold)
maggie:
I don't make generalizations about "America" as a whole. I'm not an idiot. As I said, I just spent a week in South Carolina, and drove through a bunch of states that have more differences than some European countries do from one another. My friends from Houston are very dissimilar from my friends from NYC or San Francisco. And when I do make a generalization about the entire country or its culture, it's within a context that makes sense, e.g a federal election, or the overall suckitude of contemporary mainstream country western music.

Kind of contradictory, right?
I see you assume you slickly stuck a bit of
hubris about Jews into your last sentence,
which had nothing to do with the posts
until now. But, you're no bigot.


but when all that court did was protect Zionists from Arabists and anti-Semites, I didn't hear much bitching and braying from south of the border.

And it's not the first time you've done that.

Well, it is that I m... (Below threshold)
Larry:


Well, it is that I must back hyperbolist with his characterization of US attitudes toward Canada. Most in this country haven't a clue what Canada is all about. There are many around the world would rather immigrate to Canada than the US.

Without Canadian oil, we would all be hurting. Without Canadian grain, the rest of the world would come even closer to starvation. Alberta tar sands may save us yet, and maybe that is why hyperbolists thinks Obama hung the moon. (sly dig) Canadians, being a practical lot, are going after any energy they can produce, right now, period.

Anyone who questions the positive role Canada has played on the world stage of keeping people safe from tyranny, is an ignoramous. That means ignorant, not jackass or idiot.

Only thing is hyperbolist, what are you gonna do when you have three official languages, French, English and Chinese? Is it true that Vancouver has applied to be a special economic zone? I am teasing you, by the way.

Well, it is that ... (Below threshold)
maggie:
Well, it is that I must back hyperbolist with his characterization of US attitudes toward Canada.

Larry:
The problem with hyperbolist is his
continuing attitude towards this country.
He's just experiencing the consequences of
his own petard.

Yea I know maggie, but it i... (Below threshold)
Larry:

Yea I know maggie, but it is that sweeping, wrong generalizations about Canada serve no purpose except to egg him on. He is flat wrong about Obama, but so are a ton of those in this country who are captured by the empty rhetoric of Barack, who ought to know better, but don't.

He is, like so many others, wrapped up with his projections of what Obama stands for, he cannot even get a glimpse of who Barack really is.

Pity.

Hyper and Larry, compare th... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Hyper and Larry, compare the USA and canada to world issues. Say today the USA ceased as well as canada. Who would the world miss the most? By far, BY FAR, the US. Canada has done things in the world as has other very small countries, but not the lions share. The US did and will always do the heavy lifting. What is the size of today's canadian military? And why? I do not fault anyone for being proud of their country, but I am not going to sit and listen to some pissy, selectively "intellectually curious" snob put any part of my country down. If he wants to call names that is fine. It does not change the point. Hyper hates segments of this country and I say you have to belong here to criticize here. Hyper and his opinions do not impress me. He regurgitates whatever the talking points of his censorship ridden country spew. ww

hyper is using this comment... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

hyper is using this comment section to blow hot air at people. He yelled at someone here in the comment section for saying "I am black." That was just uncalled for, and he reckless name-calling is tiring. This is probably the one place where he feels he can blather on like a know-it-all without someone telling him to shut up to his face.

LaMedusa, I am trying to te... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

LaMedusa, I am trying to tell him to shut up. But he won't go away. Not yet anyway. ww

I know, Willie, hopefully h... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

I know, Willie, hopefully he will.

Jews are not Zionists. That... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Jews are not Zionists. That's a retarded equivocation, maggie, one all of my Jewish/Israeli friends would resent. The Israelis I know hate Zionists, Joe Biden included. And they aren't any less Jewish than the Orthodox lunatics who spit on women for wearing colourful dresses. Piss-poor attempt at smearing me as a racist; I thought you were smarter than that.

Larry, thanks for being reasonable. You know, I'd rather do away with the notion of an "official" language, though that would create practical problems (e.g. in which language would we sing the national anthem at a Vancouver Canucks game?). Quebec will never give up French, nor should they (as the Quebecois are a nation within a nation, a condition of the founding of this country in 1867). However, when a city or region becomes predominantly Chinese, or Hindi, or what have you, I see no reason not to add additional "official languages" for that city/area. Surely a practical problem, but not a very serious one. I don't think I've ever encountered so much as a taxi driver or clerk who didn't have a decent grasp of English.

Willie: for you to say that I have to be a part of the United States in order to criticize it is the single stupidest thing you have written today. You were not a part of Nazi Germany, so you don't get to criticize Nazi Germany. See what your line of reasoning implies for every single person in history? You don't get to say "Saddam was bad for Iraq" because you didn't live there! Pretty shitty argument, but hey, it's your argument.

As for my country being ridden with censorship, I can smoke pot with impunity, my gay friends can get married, and our country has better literacy and infant mortality rates than yours. But you get to use more racial slurs than I do, so you're right, you're the one who lives in the land of the free. You seriously do need to think a lot harder about what you choose to write because you make yourself look like a complete and utter moron on a regular basis.

As for shutting up, don't censor me you babies. Nobody asked you to read my comments. That guy saying "I'm black and I don't like Obama" deserved to be ridiculed. I'm white and I don't like Stephen Harper or John McCain--who gives a shit? What special insight is one afforded by virtue of the colour of their skin?
depp=true
notiz=How about a little bit of* boring* agitation in return.

Where in the H is JT to del... (Below threshold)

Where in the H is JT to delete ALL of this, "off topic", crap aboot Oh Canada? What a waste of friggin time and effort. I just thank God hypoboy isn't from france.

FROGS AHOY!!!

I dont go in for the name... (Below threshold)
mf:

I dont go in for the name calling. That's why I recently joined this blog it doesnt normally have the disgusting name calling.
I feel it is ok for other country's to have their opinions about our candidates whether we agree or not.
They dont get a vote because they arent US citizens.
maybe off topic but many years ago there was a beautiful letter from a Canadian thanking the US for helping so many people out across the world. Thank you
for appreciating us.
Also thanks from the US to canada and from all over for sending the electrical trucks/help after Hurricane Ike.
=============
Regarding the debate:
I would have liked them to discuss some of the edgyer (sp) topics during the debate especially illegal immigration, ... .
The format for the debate was below par in my opinion.
McCain tried to talk / face each side of the live audiences. and Obama stayed in one place.
Perhaps if they had all of the live audience in front of the moderator that would have worked better.
Some responses were good but overall I thought it was boring. 2 of my friends that watched the debate said they fell asleep. both candidates need to work on streamlining their responses and getting to the point.




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