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Not Helpful

I think it's no secret that I am no supporter of Barack Obama. But I like to think of myself as somewhat fair-minded, and while I have no problems with pointing out his (to me) obvious weaknesses and flaws and errors, I also feel obligated to smack down those who launch spurious attacks on him.

This is partly strategic; if we Obama critics don't "police" ourselves and at least occasionally go after our own side, we run the risk of getting lumped in with the nuts and the loonies and the dips who throw everything including the kitchen sink at him -- and end up discredited along with them.

That's why I've made a point of avoiding the "Obama is the anti-Christ/ Obama is a secret Muslim/ Obama was not born in the US / Michelle Obama was taped saying 'blame whitey" crap, and occasionally going after those who do.

Well, over at Red State, a fellow named Erick Erickson didn't care for what Obama had to say about the ongoing genocide in Darfur, saying that sometimes the United States should sometimes base the decision on military intervention on moral issues -- and Obama cited the Holocaust as on example.

Oh, hell, let's just cite Erickson's entire article:

Barack Obama suggests we need to consider moral issues in intervening with combat forces. He mentions intervening in the Holocaust and how we should have done that.

Um Senator, we did intervene in the Holocaust. It was called World War II.

I guess you hadn't heard of that, kind of like you hadn't heard of Bill Ayers.

Erickson versus Obama on this issue is like a slam-dunk contest for midgets -- an exercise in pointlessness.

First up, the United States did NOT enter World War II because of the Holocaust. Knowledge of what Nazi Germany was doing to the Jews was very limited, and even those who had access to such information simply couldn't bring themselves to believe it to be true. The United States entered the war because Japan attacked us; we declared war on Germany because they declared war on us first.

Next, the US did very little to directly to stop or even slow down the Holocaust as it ramped up. This was because there was very little we could do. Not only did we not have anywhere near the technology we have now, but we were being opposed by one of the mightiest military forces in the world. Our strategic goal was to stop German aggression, and the best way we could think of to do just that was to utterly destroy the German nation. That would have the effect of ending the Holocaust, but that was a mere fortunate happenstance. Nobody went to war to save the Jews and the Gypsies and the others being exterminated by the Nazis; it was to stop the Nazis from conquering Europe and threatening the rest of the world.

Erickson shows himself a fool by making that argument.

However, Erickson's historical ignorance is nowhere near as dangerous as Obama's ignorance on just what is going on in the Darfur region of the Sudan -- and what it would take to stop the ongoing genocide.

Obama wants to impose a no-fly zone over Sudan. That'll do a lot. of good. The genocide going on there is being committed by armed groups going into remote villages in trucks and killing the people wholesale. They aren't using aircraft. So why stop at a no-fly zone? Why not expand the ban to no aircraft, no spaceships, no mining vehicles, and no death rays?

No, stopping the genocide will require armed troops on the ground. More specifically, large numbers of heavily-armed troops on the ground, ready and willing to kill the attackers wholesale to demonstrate that the genocide is over.

That will be demonstrated with large numbers of dead bodies. Dead African bodies, bodies of black and Arab Muslims, killed by American troops. And since they aren't wearing uniforms, they'll all magically transform into "civilians" and then "innocent civilians" the instant they're dead.

I also wonder how these American troops will get there. The Darfur region is well away from Sudan's coast, so they'll have to go in by land or air. Which means they'll have to overfly Libya, Chad, or the Central African Republic. That'll be a real challenge for the State Department -- "pardon us, but would you mind if we flew several thousand armed troops through your nation? They're going to go kill black and Arab muslims."

Presuming that happens, we'll then need even more flights to keep them supplied. There's an old saying: "amateurs study battles, experts study logistics." We'll need a constant supply of weapons, ammunition, food, and other materiel to keep those US forces going.

Those planes won't be coming back empty, though. They'll be fighting people who will fight back. That means that young Americans will be killed.

I don't envy those military notification teams who will be tasked with telling families that their loved one was killed in the Sudan. I'd suggest that they bring along a map, with Sudan highlighted. And they'll need some talking points explaining the vital American interest that required their sacrifice -- I'd recommend having Joe Biden be tasked with writing the talking points. He has a remarkable gift for just making up BS that sounds good, but has no resemblance to reality.

Things get even more entertaining when one looks at the role China plays in the ongoing genocide. China is helping the Sudanese government in many ways, in an attempt to shore up its supply of oil and natural gas. And China, it must be remembered, has a veto on the United Nations Security Council, which means that they can make damned sure that the US won't have the fig leaf of international sanction of any intervention.

So we end up going it alone. I just can't wait for the world's cheering us on as heavily-armed, highly-trained Americans start killing black and Arab Muslims wholesale. That'll win us a lot of new friends and renew their respect for us.

Yes, the ongoing genocide in Darfur is horrific. But there is no easy solution to it. Indeed, I don't think there is a hell of a lot the US can do to stop it. Not even voting for The Embodiment Of Hopey Changefulness will help it.

That sucks. But sometimes reality does suck.

Have a nice day anyway.


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Comments (20)

I have heard it three times... (Below threshold)
just me:

I have heard it three times now.

Mother's you sons may not have to go to Iraq, since obama is prepared to take troops out of there, but they won't be going to Afghanistan either, looks like they are headed for the Sudan.

And I agree everytime I hear "establish a no fly zone" out of Obama or Biden, all I can wonder is just how that is supposed to help anything.

I also thought McCain's point about Somalia was a good one, and his answer was good in general to that question.

Really, this is a useful po... (Below threshold)
Ray:

Really, this is a useful post how? A complete democratic control of federal government means a hell of a lot of very bad law, so bad and divisive it will tear this country asunder. Anything to cripple Obama is acceptable, anything helping Obama in the least is unacceptable. Have fun wasting time poking sticks at those opposing the democrats on the mountain of lonely principles.

Obama is a chicken hawk. He... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:

Obama is a chicken hawk. He never served but is more than willing to send others to do what he refused to do himself.

Those that elected him need to join and help fight Obama's wars or send their children.

How much blood will be on the Democrat's hands to include most lefties after sending our forces in to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children into a country that never attacked us?

How many young Obama supporters will line up at the recruiter's office to sign up to fight the Obama wars? To hear them talk about the opposition over the last eight years I'm sure they are more than willing to put their right hand up and defend the chickenhawk they helped elect.

Of course if everything doesn't turn out perfect from "plan A" then impeachment is definitely in order and those that choose to fight Obama's wars need to be court-martialed for war crimes, especially after hearing about the atrocities of cold blooded killing committed by our new lefty recruits. Don't worry there will be plenty of stories coming out whether true or not. Since I oppose Obama I'll choose to always believe the worse.

Democrats =warmongering chicken hawks.

STOP the Obama Wars NOW!!!

Kumbaya,
Jumpinjoe

P.S. Coo Coo Ka Choo

Even I, one who is not an e... (Below threshold)

Even I, one who is not an expert, hesitated when I heard that Obama thought we should establish a no fly zone over Sudan. I thought, "Did I miss something? Aren't the vast majority of deaths in Sudan from armed conflict, famine and disease?" So I did a search and found that a tiny, tiny fraction of the deaths have occurred as a result of air raids since 1988. Then I thought, "Where are we to hold a base to establish a no-fly zone?" And last, I thought, "Didn't we establish a no-fly zone over Iraq for over ten years? How did that work out for us and the hundreds of thousands who died anyway?"

So yeah, I'm with you on this.

Home run Jay, both w... (Below threshold)
Larry:


Home run Jay, both ways you played it. And after Obama pokes his own stick into both Pakistan and Sudan, we will find out what a real war is all about.

We did do one tiny thing it help the Jews during the holocaust and that was to NOT stop the program of ransoming the Nazi was running out of South America. Roosevelt knew about it and choose wisely to keep it quite.

Oyster. My fear is... (Below threshold)
Larry:

Oyster.

My fear is that another gaffe becomes policy.

Also, Obama seems to have f... (Below threshold)
hermie:

Also, Obama seems to have forgotten that the UN has either been ineffectual, or just negligent regarding Darfur. Under Obama, US troops would have to be commanded by the same UN commanders/bureaucrats who did nothing about the Rwanda massacres.

BTW...Obama wants to put troops into Darfur without a strategy. It's an open-ended conflict without any benchmark for when it ends. ... The same thing he accused the Bush Administration and McCain of doing.

It's funny, in a dark, ugly... (Below threshold)
Matt:

It's funny, in a dark, ugly fashion, that lots of different people and groups are for "intervention" in Sudan. I guess it's all the Black and Arab Muslims. Those same groups were silent when Mugabe in Zimbabwe was destroying his country and systematically driving the white farmers out of his country and killing any and all that were to slow to leave or dared to take a stand. He has also killed thousands of his own people, anyone that looked like they migh oppose him and through government induced famine and starvation. Guess destroying the country that fed a significant portion of Africa was okay as long as it was done by a black dictator and the visible victims were white.

"But I like to think of mys... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"But I like to think of myself as somewhat fair-minded"

Good luck with that one. Do you actually read what you write, or does it come out of some sort of Republican op-ed pre-formed attack piece program? Very interesting self-analysis/delusion.

"That's why I've made a point of avoiding the "Obama is the anti-Christ/ Obama is a secret Muslim/"

Very bold and commendable. It is Nobel season, wise JT...

And of course, part of Obam... (Below threshold)
hermie:

And of course, part of Obama's plan to fleece the U.S. taxpayer is to give billions to the corrrupt UN to prop up dictators and murderers like Mugabe.

Good luck with tha... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:
Good luck with that one. Do you actually read what you write, or does it come out of some sort of Republican op-ed pre-formed attack piece program? Very interesting self-analysis/delusion.

jp2,

Show us a flaw in Jay's article or kindly STFU.

This is a bit off-topic but... (Below threshold)
Necromancer Author Profile Page:

This is a bit off-topic but I am wondering JT what you think about Michelle Malkin's going sort of off on McCain's view(s) on this so-called bailout.

Ray - "Really, this is ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Ray - "Really, this is a useful post how? A complete democratic control of federal government means a hell of a lot of very bad law, so bad and divisive it will tear this country asunder."

Geesh, talk about hyperbolic nonsense. You "sir," are a poster child for some from the left call those on the right scare-mongers.

First of all the post
IS useful as it shows in detail what is wrong with obama's and bidens "strategy."

Secondly, the country won't be "torn asunder," even with the WH and both houses of Congress owned by the democrats obama will have a very hard time passing some of his nonsense by the many blue-dog democrats.

Count on it, they may have a "D" trailing their name, but most have far more sense than obama will ever have or acquire in the future.

"I just can't wait for the ... (Below threshold)
syn:

"I just can't wait for the world's cheering us on as heavily-armed, highly-trained Americans start killing black and Arab Muslims wholesale"

The world's too busy cheering on those blacks and Arab Muslims currently killing darker-skinned blacks and non-Muslim Arabs to notice what Simon Deng has warned about for a decade or so.

Good man Simon Deng, I met him three years ago, he managed to escape the Muslim-slave trade he was forced into as a child and make his way to Brooklyn.

Too bad so all those 'human-rights' liberals here in NYC could not bother to show up for his walk to Washington, DC. They were too involved in their bush-hate to notice what was happening.

And, George Clooney could only put his fat face out in front when he needed some pretense of appearing he supports human-rights, all that fake crap Hollywood is so skilled at manufacturing.

jp2Don't even both... (Below threshold)
syn:

jp2

Don't even bother pretending you care about anything but your own worthless, shallow, and provencial ego.

Thank you for being strateg... (Below threshold)
Jim B:

Thank you for being strategic. I did not know the truth required strategy to speak? I used to think the truth spoke for itself, but now I know.

jp2,Show us a... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
jp2,

Show us a flaw in Jay's article or kindly STFU.

SOTG, I gave up asking for more than he can give. His retorts usually consist of one quote from the blogger, then accusing them of not being what they say they are. And, of course, with no feasible explanation.

The next few years can beco... (Below threshold)
MF:

The next few years can become even more dangerous militarily .

I have a parent that survived the Hitler regime. These type people cannot be reasoned with.

I would think the goal is to continue keeping Americans safe on our land and continue the fight as needed in the areas of concern as they are identified. I am not one to understand the skills needed but even special skills and unconventional means will probably be required.

just a side note:
my parent became a proud US citizen and told us had it not been for the Americans and the Red Cross our family would not have been here today. how soon people forget the lessons of the past and how very lucky we are to have our freedoms and choices

Jim BThe truth has... (Below threshold)
Larry:

Jim B

The truth has many faces and so does a lie. In fact, if a lie is told often enough, it sometimes becomes recognised and validated as the truth.

Half the truth is often a lie, as is the truth told so badly everyone thinks it is a lie.

Two people with differing worldviews can view the same evidence and create two quite different truths.

The truth is not absolute. For a truth to be accepted, it often requires a strategy, if not a tactic.

Jay, you've got it a... (Below threshold)
jaymaster:


Jay, you've got it all wrong! Obama has an honest out here.

When he called for a "no fly zone' in Somalia, he was actually talking about the INSECT.

As in a "no dipteran" zone.

No more pictures of flies buzzing around rotting corpses. No more flies in the eyes of little starving kids with bloated tummies.

A little DDT is all it would take.

And then we'll have it: A no fly zone!




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