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Obama and Genocide

When it comes to genocide, which Obama do you believe? The Obama from last night who said that we have a moral obligation to prevent genocide because to "stand idly by, that diminishes us," or the Obama from the Democratic Primary who said that the risk of genocide in Iraq wasn't a good enough reason to keep our troops there:

Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn't a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there.

Jeff Jacoby caught Obama's schizophrenic position on genocide and asks a very serious question on Barack Obama's character:

What kind of candidate is it whose moral response to genocide - genocide - can reverse itself 180 degrees in a matter of months? Is that the kind of candidate who ought to be the leader of the free world?

Obviously no.

Amy Holmes at The Corner picked up on Obama's massive swing on his views on genocide and asks the very relevant question just when would Barack Obama use military force?

He said that we have a moral responsibility to use force to save innocents. How does that apply to Iraq? Saddam Hussein was a mass murderer and gassed his own people. Obama opposed military intervention. Obama also opposed the surge and advocated withdrawal despite the warnings that it would lead to a bloodbath and possible genocide. And now that the surge is helping to quell violence and save lives, Obama says that he would still oppose that action. What does that mean? What about our moral responsibility to the Iraqis? Obama says he's against the Holocaust. Well, for goodness sakes, who isn't? The question is: When would a President Obama order military action? Based on what criteria? Do we know? Does he know?

It's clear that Senator Obama doesn't understand a lot of things in this world, but his vacillation on an issue of such depravity as genocide is just plain scary. And it's only one piece of a puzzle that many of us are finding can't be put together because the pieces are constantly changing shape. There are many parts of Barack Obama's character that are so questionable that we can't take the risk elevating him to leader of the free world.

On top of that Barack Obama is swiftly becoming the poster boy for far leftist moral relativism. Between this casual reversal on genocide, his views on abortion that are so aggressive that they border on on infanticide, his associations and dealings with a convicted felon, his long-time friendship with a pastor that made it a habit of going on nasty, America-is-evil tirades, and his lack of concern that he spent years working with an unrepentant domestic terrorist, does this man have a moral compass at all?


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Comments (28)

The qualification would see... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

The qualification would seem to be whether we as a country would get anything from the money, material and lives expended. If the answer is "Not only no, but you've got to be joking that you were even THINKING there might be something in return", then we need to do it.

If there's any possible eventual return, whether in status, national security enhancement, or supporting an ally - we shouldn't even think about it.

The Obama Doctrine:<p... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:

The Obama Doctrine:

Islamists killing Sudanese = bad

Islamists killing Iraqis = meh

Islamists killing Indonesians, Filipinos, etc. = who cares?

Islamists killing Israelis = sternly worded letter

IMO, it's less moral relati... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

IMO, it's less moral relativism as just a basic lack of a core by which he's guided.. which is the result of inexperience.

If a carpenter wants his lengths of wood cut consistent lengths, he needs a yard stick by which to gauge their lengths... without something consistent by which to measure, the carpenter's results are going to be all over the place, as will the politicians.

If Obama's lips are moving,... (Below threshold)

If Obama's lips are moving, he's probably lying. I figure it's just simpler to deal with the great babbler that way! The few verities that actually emanate from his piehole are so few and far between and I have way too much to do to sort through them.

WildWillie -"If... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

WildWillie -

"If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong." - RAH

I'm not wild about McCain - but I see Obama as MUCH worse for us in both the short and long term.

JLAWSON, I totally agree. U... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

JLAWSON, I totally agree. Unfortunately I vote more and more against then for as the years go by. ww

"Obama says he's against... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"Obama says he's against the Holocaust. Well, for goodness sakes, who isn't?

For starters, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO...

I wonder who those guys would vote for if they could?

Of course Obama... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:


Of course Obama has a moral compass, it simply doesn't point in a moral direction.

Obama would only act to pro... (Below threshold)

Obama would only act to protect members of the Multicultural Rainbow. He would never defend the USA against attack, as the Dems think 9-11 was the world's judgement against us and our response to the murder of 3,000 should have been an apology to planet Earth and to view it as a teaching moment.

If there's no ad about this by McCain I'm going to pull out my remaining hairs.

Kim,Obama is no me... (Below threshold)
marybel:

Kim,

Obama is no mere flip-flopper. Kerry, old news, was called a "flip-flopper" -certainly a hackneyed and over-used term at best. Obama, no,no,no!, brings flip-flop to a whole new and frightening level. Obama is a shape-shifter.

Would his decision to stop ... (Below threshold)
hermie:

Would his decision to stop genocide be dependent upon who defines what is or is not genocide?

Maybe he needs that UN "Global Definition' before he can figure out that a mass extinction is genocide for one 'culture', and 'reeducation' for another.

For starters, Mahm... (Below threshold)
For starters, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO...

I wonder who those guys would vote for if they could?

Louis Farrakhan! Obama would be his Sect. of State...And Bill Ayers would be the Defense Sect.

I don't think that Obama re... (Below threshold)
lisa:

I don't think that Obama really cares about genocide. Look at the article and video clip: "Obama's Cousin Problem" on NoQuarter.com

Obama as a sitting Senator, with taxpayer dollars, went to Kenya and campaigned for Raila Odinga (supposedly his cousin) who was running for the Prime Minister of Kenya. When Odinga didn't win the election he and his "cronies" began killing people of another tribe until the government broke down and came up with a coalition government.

Odinga have a very questionable past and yet, Obama campaigned for him.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raila_Odinga

Go to, <a href="http://www.... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

Go to, http://www.floppingaces.net/, and you'll understand Hussein O's socialist slant. He is an active member of a socialist organization. Read this article at FloppingAce's.

"Obama's Links To Group That Tried To Subvert The 2nd Amendment"

hermie - "Maybe he need... (Below threshold)
marc:

hermie - "Maybe he needs that UN "Global Definition' before he can figure out that a mass extinction is genocide for one 'culture', and 'reeducation' for another."

And therein is obama's Achilles Heel.

As per the U.N.'s Convention of Genocide (article 9 - "Any Contracting Party may call upon the competent organs of the United Nations to take such action under the Charter of the United Nations as they consider appropriate for the prevention and suppression of acts of genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3."

The "competent" organ would be the Security Council, one where Bush was the first national leader to call for U.N. action in the Sudan and was quickly rebuffed by China who were, and are afraid they would lose their oil resources located there.

To McCain's credit he noted China's Sudan influence, but he should have tossed in this zinger during that exchange....

So, "Obama, what your saying is you want to continue Bush's policy of requesting the U.N.'s permission to act, how is that change from the last eight years?"

It seems to me that rather ... (Below threshold)
Jim B:

It seems to me that rather than getting hung up on a few words it's actually more important to try and understand the whole thought before making a judgment? The question is, are we being hypocritical to act in one situation and not in another? Do we only care enough to act when the problem affects oneself personally?

I would invite you to step out your door, out of your neighborhood, out of your country, out of whatever boundary you think exists between you and your fellow human beings and tell me how you personally contribute to the solution of genocide. Agreeing on a course of action is far less important than working with each other to achieve justice and liberty for all.

How is this cooperation toward peaceful coexistence being displayed by the personalities and comments here? Do these seemingly innocuous comments actually contribute to the problem of genocide by furthering our conflict with each other? If we cannot resolve our daily disagreements how can we be expected to achieve something as involved as preventing/eliminating genocide?

Jim BGood point. ... (Below threshold)
Larry:

Jim B

Good point. I will ask you to go over to wizbang blue and post a few less than complimentary posts on Obama and see how long you last.

Civil discourse takes two sides to make it work. For a very long time, Republicans have sought to appease the left wing nutcases who rant and rave, play the race card and the poor downtrodden card and all of the other feel good stuff.

We are about to enter an economic time that is going to call for very, very hard choices because the Great Society has turned into the debt society. Things are likely to get less civil than more.

I wonder who those... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
I wonder who those guys would vote for if they could?

Probably the candidate they sent overseas contributions to under anonymous or American pseudonyms.

All these changes in Obama'... (Below threshold)

All these changes in Obama's "talk" over the months point to one simple reason; he's being coached. And he's still mucking it up.

How is this coope... (Below threshold)
maggie:
How is this cooperation toward peaceful coexistence being displayed by the personalities and comments here? Do these seemingly innocuous comments actually contribute to the problem of genocide by furthering our conflict with each other? If we cannot resolve our daily disagreements how can we be expected to achieve something as involved as preventing/eliminating genocide?

JimB:
How well has appeasement, political correctness, and surrender worked?
Your ideology is a nice agenda.
As long as man has his warlike nature, you're
dreaming. It has always been the survival
of the fittest that wins in the long run.

"The question is, are we... (Below threshold)

"The question is, are we being hypocritical to act in one situation and not in another?"

Shouldn't we also consider matters of logistics and the probability of success before we make any assumptions about hypocrisy?

"Do we only care enough to act when the problem affects oneself personally?"

I can only speak for myself when I say, emphatically, "No."

Agreeing on a course of action is very important. Unless, of course, we want more of the same division we've experienced over the Iraq war.

The US would have to go it ... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:

The US would have to go it alone in Darfur.

Russia and China are selling Khartoum the arms used for genocide, they're not going to agree to any military action by the UN. France has oil contracts with Khartoum, so ditto. The theo/kleptocrats ruling the Middle East/SE Asia will oppose any actions against their Muslim brothers in Khartoum.

Why is stopping the genocide in Darfur a more compelling cause than doing the same in Iraq? Or Tibet?

I feel for them to the extent a pampered American can. They are enduring hell very few of us could even imagine. Is the expectation that the US will act alone every time there is a civil war which leads to large numbers of deaths? If so, we'll need to reinstate the draft and devote a much greater portion of the federal budget to defense spending. The vast majority of the UN will not care, will not act, and doesn't have the logistical capabilities to do anything even if they were so inclined.

Team America, World Police. Do we honestly believe that is realistic?

In response to Comment #17:... (Below threshold)
Jim B:

In response to Comment #17:

Ha, thanks Larry, I am sure the reception on wizbang blue would be very similar. However, surely we can all agree that systems and ideas need to evolve so that we are working and living purposefully rather than being provisional or reactionary? I cannot tell you what to think or what to do, but what I can do is show how at least one person that disagrees is committed to civil discourse. The fact that we aren't challenging each other to a duel to resolve our conflict is a pretty big advance for the transfer of power and information. In these changing times I believe that being more thoughtful and cooperative will be necessary to avoid a civil dispute from changing into something even remotely resembling genocide. How we think about these issues may differ, but I am happy to work with you towards our greater responsibility of honoring life as measured by an ability (and quality) to transfer the experience to the next generations. Thanks for your response.

In response to Comment #20:

Thanks Maggie, if you truly believe that might makes right as survival of the fittest I may suggest you inquire into this further. What state of existence do you currently see in the world and where do you see it going? If you believe there is no other way, then there will be no other way. What you believe and how you act determine what type of life you live. I am merely suggesting that it is possible to live without killing each other (no matter how distant that possibility may seem). As long as the true strength of being compassionate is not accepted we will continue to have these same problems. Luckily a political leader does not solely determine your survival; but it is up to you to determine the kind of life to live.

JimBI admire your ... (Below threshold)
Larry:

JimB

I admire your spirit in the grand tradition of Ghandi. Yet the world is full of evil as it has always been. Civil discourse doesn't get rid of evil, that has to be done with a gun.

That this is a pity doesn't matter. From the killing fields of Cambodia to Mao's China to Darfur, to Kenya and Zimbabwe, from Tibet to Georgia to Afghanistan and 9/11 right here at home, there are people who will kill you and me and our families with no remorse or regret.

Egged on by a corporate culture interested in a profit, the media has helped our own political discourse to become increasingly rancorous. And every effort by one side to appease is met with catcalls and derision. Blacks who don't toe the line for self appointed leaders are called "Uncle Tom," and black kids who try to succeed in school are beaten for acting like "Whitey."

The world is full of demigods who pretend to have all the answers if only we would give it up to their authority and leadership. One such person is Barack H. Obama. If you do not see this, then you are not a student of history, nor have you delved into the makings of a fraud.

I wish I had the answer toward making the world a better place. I don't. So long as someone is willing to advance their own comfort level at the expense of someone else's, it is going to be what it is. So long as somone will say whatever it takes to get and hold power, it will be as it will be.

Duty, honor, integrity and country are all held hostage to personal ambition way too man of our so-called leaders and would be leaders.

And some people just dont' get it.

No edits on this blo... (Below threshold)
Larry:


No edits on this blog :-)

Duty, honor, integrity and country are all held hostage to the personal ambition of way too many of our so-called leaders and would be leaders.

The scary part is that he's... (Below threshold)

The scary part is that he's a melting pot for all the hopes and aspirations of all liberals. It seems that his absolute ideal is not to even have a self.

Example: when the Rev. Wright thing was big news, he could have said, "I attend that church for the fellowship, and also because it is the best place to work with the community. I don't agree with my pastor on every little thing; who does? But by and large he's a decent man and a good spiritual leader." Presto, he's defended his pastor, retained membership, and put to shame all those who made it sound as if he couldn't listen to a sermon without agreeing to every word. It would have made him his own man.

But instead, he played the good little churchgoer until it was clear he couldn't be, and then he dropped Wright like a hot potato. He is a party hack through and through, and it is clear his party is wearing him like an empty suit.

Larry,As long as you... (Below threshold)
Jim B:

Larry,
As long as you continue to believe this it will be so, who do you think is going to change things for you or any of us?

It is not necessarily my aspiration to follow in the tradition of Ghandi, but his personality is definitely an interesting measure to understand oneself. How do you measure you own understanding and relationship to the world around you? Somehow I doubt your experience under fire as this changes a person. The contradiction of your words is not understood just rationally but at the very depth of your experience. I understand why you feel that way, and believe it or not in the present world I agree (especially on this topic of genocide), but as long as we don't strive to move beyond this it will not happen. It's one thing to be a student of history, and it's another to realize the future is not yet here; you have the gift to make it what you will.

The biggest disappointment is not the personal ambition and would be leaders who hold hostage to these values; it is the apathy behind your expressed mentality regarding our shared condition. These leaders are a product of our culture and the people they serve, meaning that it might be much more worthwhile to examine ones own perspective and contribution. One cannot think things will improve without the conscious choice to change in your daily experience. You are what you believe.

Jimmy:I haven't sp... (Below threshold)
Thomas Jackson:

Jimmy:

I haven't spent as many decades considering the meaning of my navel as you have, having wasted it living overseas. Have you considered your relationship as it relates to Purina Cat Chow, as a whole I mean?

People who are ready to risk other people's money and lives for the right to cook lettuce must be assumed to be good non combatants, who not only hate the military, but this nation as well.

In contrast, these same people can be seen supporting the troops (that they plan to use as cannon fodder in their meals on wheels programs) as bitter, people clinging to their religion and guns. Siumply not the stuff a community organizer would consider promising material.

Have you ever been overseas? One assumes not from such tiresome nonsense.




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