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Barack Obama is a Socialist

And he admitted it. Yesterday, he was in Holland, Ohio stumping for votes by going door to door in a middle class neighborhood. I know exactly where Obama was because I used to live about 5-10 minutes from Holland. I also find it interesting that Obama feels the need to spend so much time in the Toledo area. (He's preparing for the debate there.) Toledo is such a Democrat city, it should be a guaranteed blow out for him. Kerry won Toledo by 20 points. Anyway, while he was knocking on doors and shaking hands, he had a conversation with a plumber who was not quite sure about Obama's tax policy. This gentleman asked if he would end up paying more taxes and Obama said yes. This is where the socialism part comes in. Obama said he didn't want to punish the guy's success (riiight), but that he wants to help those behind him succeed and spread the wealth around.

Everyone get that? Obama wants to redistribute wealth. That's one of the primary tenets of socialism (link via Stop the ACLU):

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth into a small section of society who control capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.

The whole premise of redistribution of wealth is based upon the concept - erroneously - that wealth is collectively owned and is Obama's to redistribute. Well, hello, Mr. Obama, maybe you need to be reminded that this is not Cuba. Or China. So the American people are neither a collective nor do we live for the good the collective. Wealth is earned by individual people, which means, Senator Obama, it isn't yours to redistribute!


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Comments (32)

Yes, and here's another art... (Below threshold)
Lisa:

Yes, and here's another article about him being a member of the "Chicago New Party | Democratic Socialists of America (the DSA)"

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/10/021724.php

Let's hope this moment beco... (Below threshold)
Boots:

Let's hope this moment becomes the "global test" of the 2008 election.......an unguarded moment of truth! Being a plumber is a dirty job, every time our toilets back up/break down I pay whatever they charge just to make the stink go away. Obama's got a lot of nerve calling that poor guy rich and threatening to pick his pocket.

duh... that's what all taxe... (Below threshold)
Rob:

duh... that's what all taxes are about? There is no flat tax in America. Why pick his tax plan to bring out the "S" word? McCain's bailout plan is socialist, you've lost that whine for a couple weeks.

"McCain's bailout plan i... (Below threshold)

"McCain's bailout plan is socialist, you've lost that whine for a couple weeks."

Everybody knows McCain is Socialism Lite, and Obama is full-bore premium leaded Socialism. Folks around here are advocating the lesser of two evils.

There was a time when McCain would've been the perfect Democrat candidate. It goes to show you how pathetic both parties are right now.

Damn but they're trying to ... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Damn but they're trying to pass out shoddy astroturf any more... Rob, take it back and get a refund, buddy!

It's really simple - taking MORE money from the plumber does NOT make ANYONE else SUCCESSFUL.

If the plumber KEEPS more money, he can hire more people. He can expand his business - lift up MORE people, teach them a trade (a shitty one, lol, but needed) and put THEM on a (messy) path to prosperity.

The Government? "Here's your check. Sit around and we'll give you another one in a month." Is the person getting the check a success? Will they gain any skills, do anything useful FOR anyone?

Or will they just produce a lot more of what the plumber gets rid of?

You want prosperity? You don't get it by bleeding the people who produce it!

"Everybody knows McCain is ... (Below threshold)
Rob:

"Everybody knows McCain is Socialism Lite"

Well that just muddies the waters doesn't it? why so passionate about a jr. socialist when you can have the real thing?

I live in a community of contractors, lanscapers, plumbers etc. Only thing they hired were mexicans and bought SUV's. If you define success as giving the Chinese more spending capital as a developing nation when they buy iPods and LCD's, then all the more power to your party.

If you're going to tell me that taxing them a bit more is going to alter anything other than the topic of conversation on football sunday, you're delusional.

of course, this is a moot argument, since the housing market crash, he's about to make $175K a year anyway.

Here's what to like:<... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Here's what to like:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama

The policies of both are a wash, the parties are essentially the same, not sure why you guys get all fired up about non-sense. Grand ideological idealism that's no more real than a full media conspiracy to get Jesus elected.

Go for the guy that's even keel, and not an emotional old man with an intellectual light weight behind him.

"Well that just muddies ... (Below threshold)

"Well that just muddies the waters doesn't it? why so passionate about a jr. socialist when you can have the real thing?"

No, actually it clears it right up. And funny you used that line, because I've been sarcastically saying the same thing for quite some time.

"If you define success as giving the Chinese more spending capital as a developing nation when they buy iPods and LCD's, then all the more power to your party."

I don't, and it isn't my party. That ship sailed long ago.

"If you're going to tell me that taxing them a bit more is going to alter anything other than the topic of conversation on football sunday, you're delusional."

"A bit more." Hilarious. Have you ever looked at the total amount of taxes that are already taken out of your paycheck? If you want to pay more than that, there's an option on your tax form that'll let you. The rest of us say, "No thanks, you already take more than enough."

Actually, you're delusional if you think class warfare and the "redistribution of wealth" is going to work the umpteenth time it's ever tried. No country in the history of the world has ever taxed itself into prosperity' it's failed every single time.

"Go for the guy that's e... (Below threshold)

"Go for the guy that's even keel, and not an emotional old man with an intellectual light weight behind him."

I find that incredibly funny that you guys use that line with the empty suit you've trotted out to read teleprompters everywhere he goes. Since, you know...uhhh, uhhhmmmmm...he can't think on his feet.

It's a hoot, I'm telling ya. ;-)

The policies of bo... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
The policies of both are a wash, the parties are essentially the same, not sure why you guys get all fired up about non-sense.

You sound like you watched that O'Reilly episode with Bill Maher. Maher said the same thing, "it's a wash", and O'Reilly said that Bush and John Kerry were the same guy. They were arguing about what they agreed on. That was one of the funniest segments on youtube I've seen.

The only thing Obama isn't saying is "We're taking tax cuts away from you for the common good." Remember that back in 2004? With Obama, only the wording is different. If he really wanted to redistribute the wealth, he would get all that money back from his crooked friends who cashed in on the mortgage fiasco.

That's right. the empty su... (Below threshold)
Rob - now the token elitist:

That's right. the empty suit who went to harvard and columbia and studied constitutional law, versus the beauty queen who aspired to be a sports caster.

Yes, to defend that requires the invocation of the straw man - the elitist - the east coast bias, the over-educated... or the media where everyone is against you so you can't believe anything other than the beat of your own blogs... This is where you need to go when you need to counter the obvious.

Question. What would you like to do with the unemployed, the stupid, the people that are just toooo lazy to become rich, the mentally or physically handicapped? At some point you can break down every argument of taxation down to this level. What's the obligation as a nation?

As a small business owner I can tell you this, after deductions no small business owner pays close to 40% off gross sales. And if there is a line of $250,000, people will spend enough to get below that level, or make investments, donations to the poor, etc... to avoid that line in the sand.

You make $400K? F-U. Give me a piece, I'm suddenly poor. ;)

Don't be so hasty to paint me, I campaigned for Bush '88, voted Clinton '92 and Bush '00.

My fear isn't the economy, I'm one of those odd people that still worry about foreign policy over the economy. Having an even temperament and not hasty to throw hail mary's every down (which McCain is clearly prone to do) is far more appealing. McCain's "gotcha" foreign policy digs are nothing more than sloganeering.

My fear isn't the ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
My fear isn't the economy, I'm one of those odd people that still worry about foreign policy over the economy. Having an even temperament and not hasty to throw hail mary's every down (which McCain is clearly prone to do) is far more appealing. McCain's "gotcha" foreign policy digs are nothing more than sloganeering.

Sloganeering?! "hasty to throw hail marys (which McCain is clearly prone to do), "gotcha" foreign policy...just what do you call that hunk of horse tripe you just spewed (with an "even temperament")? You have no clue what you are saying. There should be a Rhetorics Anonymous hotline.

"The policies of both are a... (Below threshold)
Rob:

"The policies of both are a wash, the parties are essentially the same, not sure why you guys get all fired up about non-sense."

Think to be fair that's probably more stolen from Ralph Nader. There are others too of course. Has anyone ever seen this guy?

Andrew J. Bacevich
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09262008/profile.html

Yes, sorry it's PBS... can't trust the source. If you watched the episode, you'd see he skewers Peloci quite hard though...

Oddly, if you watched half of the "liberal" media, you'd see that they actually blast the left as much as the right. I of course mean the "real" lefty media.... NY Times, PBS, NPR...

Sorry. tangent.

Lengthy rant coming. ... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

Lengthy rant coming.

This post is a lot of thunder and little lightning that does little but obfuscate the fact that every modern economy - including the United States, though to a lesser extent than our many allies - occasionally incorporates practices and protocol that could be described as somewhat socialist.

The problem with declarative statements like "Barack Obama is a socialist" (apart from being patently false) is that the spectrum of economic ideology is a continuum, generally without well-defined borders. The Senator is undoubtedly MORE socialist than Gov. Palin, but LESS socialist than Hugo Chavez. Every extra dollar you believe in taxing a wealthy guy on behalf of a poorer guy makes you more socialist than the politician to your right.

So then why not just say "Barack Obama is a socialist," if it's an ill-defined continuum? For one, nowhere else in the world would he fall close enough to that distinction to bear the moniker. A statistical analysis of international socialists would place Sen. Obama well to their right. For two, his ideology doesn't even coincide - not even close - with the Socialist Party of America. In other words, not even in the much narrower definition of political life in the United States (relative to the rest of the world's definition) does Sen. Obama qualify. All of this is perspective. If one is rather far off in the right, someone moderately to the left will appear quite far to the left.

A socialist? In the words of Senator Joe Biden: Malarkey.

"Just what do you call that... (Below threshold)
Rob:

"Just what do you call that hunk of horse tripe you just spewed (with an "even temperament")? You have no clue what you are saying. There should be a Rhetorics Anonymous hotline."

Would you prefer emotionally intelligent?

I'm referring to the article I posted from Buckley. There are others:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/371832

Think you can only nail me on is being an elitist. Not quoting CNN or Fox here, one from the nation and one from the national review agree.

McCain admits to being a high stakes gambler, and he's done it through out the campaign. He's made dramatic announcements that alter the path.

My prediction is that he'll unveil his economic policy that he promised today - tomorrow during the debate - tada!!!

"That's right. the empty... (Below threshold)

"That's right. the empty suit who went to harvard and columbia and studied constitutional law, versus the beauty queen who aspired to be a sports caster."

Good grief. Are you aware she has a Journalism degree and minored in Poly Sci? At least give her credit for that. And the fact is, she's accomplished more as Governor of Alaska than most politicians accomplish in a lifetime. Certainly a lot more than what Obama has accomplished, education be damned.

"Yes, to defend that requires the invocation of the straw man - the elitist - the east coast bias, the over-educated... or the media where everyone is against you so you can't believe anything other than the beat of your own blogs... This is where you need to go when you need to counter the obvious."

Looks like I just deflated your straw man.

"Question. What would you like to do with the unemployed, the stupid, the people that are just toooo lazy to become rich, the mentally or physically handicapped? At some point you can break down every argument of taxation down to this level. What's the obligation as a nation?"

There's a difference between socialism and capitalism. Bottom line, socialism wants big government and operates on a lot of taxes. Capitalism wants small government and operates on a lot less taxes. The fact of the matter is, the "poor" in this country have luxuries that other nations envy. For someone to say we're not exceeding the basic requirements of life, let alone not meeting them through taxes, is simply not living in reality. We can easily cut government and taxes and the people you mention would be absolutely fine.

"As a small business owner I can tell you this, after deductions no small business owner pays close to 40% off gross sales. And if there is a line of $250,000, people will spend enough to get below that level, or make investments, donations to the poor, etc... to avoid that line in the sand."

And there are a lot of other expenses that small business owners are going to have to pay for as well, in addition to higher taxes, no matter what the percentage. Right off the bat, with an Obama presidency, there will be higher minimum wage, and higher health care expenses to pay. Whether you admit it or not, there will be cutbacks.

"Don't be so hasty to paint me, I campaigned for Bush '88, voted Clinton '92 and Bush '00."

I'm not painting you as anything other than a misguided Obama supporter. :-)

"My fear isn't the economy, I'm one of those odd people that still worry about foreign policy over the economy. Having an even temperament and not hasty to throw hail mary's every down (which McCain is clearly prone to do) is far more appealing. McCain's "gotcha" foreign policy digs are nothing more than sloganeering."

That's flabbergasting. If you're not scared of someone who's on record to have said that he's willing to sit down with Iran and other enemies of this country without preconditions, then I don't know what to tell you. But, Iran already has. They've set up their own conditions in case Obama would like to initiate and coordinate a sit-down.

That, and the fact that he's been documented to undermine the official foreign policy of the USA with the Iraqi government in relation to our troops--that worries me a lot more than someone who predicted the surge would work. Especially since Obama's activity with regard to Iraq is illegal.

Think you can only... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Think you can only nail me on is being an elitist. Not quoting CNN or Fox here, one from the nation and one from the national review agree.

So, you're an elitist. So what?

My prediction is that he'll unveil his economic policy that he promised today - tomorrow during the debate - tada!!!

If it's anything like the last doctrine unveiling without a teleprompter, he might not remember what it is. The notes didn't help either.

"A socialist? In the words ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"A socialist? In the words of Senator Joe Biden: Malarkey."

Actually...

In the words of Senator "America's better off with McCain" Biden: "What am I talkin' about?"

He was not talking about Je... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

He was not talking about Jekyll McCain, not Hyde "Gotta shore up the base and turn really conservative" McCain.

Parthenon:"A so... (Below threshold)

Parthenon:

"A socialist? In the words of Senator Joe Biden: Malarkey."

You need to look up the definition of the word "denial". Bill Ayers, a guy who's helped shape Obama's career, whether his supporters want to admit it or not, is in his own words, "I am a radical, Leftist, small 'c' communist ... [Laughs] Maybe I'm the last communist who is willing to admit it."

Community Organizer is another name for someone who espouses the Cloward-Piven Strategy to accomplish his goals. It was named after two radical socialist Columbia University professors, Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. More on that here.

Google is your friend. I have to get to bed; there are plenty more examples where that came from.

"Good grief. Are you aware ... (Below threshold)
Rob:

"Good grief. Are you aware she has a Journalism degree and minored in Poly Sci? At least give her credit for that."

hahaha, yeah my wife teaches 7th graders with her poly sci degree. I don't think she's as smart as Obama either.

"There's a difference between socialism and capitalism.

In a vacuum, in a bottle... yes. Even USSR was communist. Cuba is dead and China is communist. Note - every single politician is pushing for regulation right now in the economic turn (to act "responsible" if you're a cynic), to me your definitions are empty. Obama is FAR too pragmatic to actually raise taxes and risk political suicide. This isn't 1984, Mondale is long gone.

Voodoo economics (George H), trickle down economics (Reagan)... all stayed in effect when Clinton was President. I could be wrong (of course) - but I'm sure the Dems are talking about the Clinton era tax levels. This was the most prosperous time in 20 years. It was despite him, but it was also during his reign of blood lust.

"there will be higher minimum wage, and higher health care expenses to pay. Whether you admit it or not, there will be cutbacks."

yes, there will be cutbacks, China has a growing economy and the flood gate has been opened. Greed has sold us down the river on every level. Corporations and consumers. Not due to taxes, but because of slave labor. Raising the minimum wage, or taxing the upper middle class will do nothing to change that trend. We all like iPods, and they're all made in China because no one wants a $600 iPod.

"That's flabbergasting. If you're not scared of someone who's on record to have said that he's willing to sit down with Iran and other enemies of this country without preconditions... That, and the fact that he's been documented to undermine the official foreign policy of the USA with the Iraqi government in relation to our troops"

... Iraq has said that never happened earlier today or yesterday... this thing about "appeasement" or "preconditions" is really tedious - the core of what I was saying is what's wrong with McCain's "gotcha" debating points. I want the president to ESPECIALLY meet with all of our enemies.

Don't assume it's to give anything away.. think Reagan / Gorbachev. You want McCain meeting Iran? Or Hussein? How far has being hated gotten us? Lots of dead and a destabilized nation that used to be non-secular amongst religious nuts.

The point about McCain being prone to gambling is scary because gamblers lose more often than not.

McCain's made his political career being the "maverick" to the republican party - yes, a dem who even wanted to raise taxes at the start of the war. As we should have... and instituted a draft... but that's another tangent.

I'm almost certain, the domestic policies will be the same between the two. My fear is John pushing the button over some silly issue that means nothing to anything other than his ego or "hunch". We've had 8 years of a soul searching hunch machine.

Everyone feels Obama is a pragmatist. Couple that with his obvious ability to motivate and you got two key leadership qualities. Ain't no one calling McCain pragmatic...

Goodnight Tom,"In ... (Below threshold)
Rob:

Goodnight Tom,

"In the 1990s, billionaire Walter Annenberg, former ambassador to the United Kingdom under President Richard Nixon, was the United States' most generous living philanthropist. By 1998, Annenberg had given away more than $2 billion and the assets of the Annenberg Foundation he had established in June 1989 with $1 billion had grown to $3 billion and ranked as the 12th largest in the U.S."

Wow, what a radical group they served on together... let's be fair, here are the others that palled with terrorists:

The final Board of Directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in 2001 were:[47]

1. Patricia Albjerg Graham
2. Barack Obama
3. Edward Bottum, managing director of Chase Franklin Corp.; former president and vice chairman of Continental Illinois Bank[48]
4. Connie Evans, founder and president of the Women's Self-Employment Project
5. Susan Blankenbaker Noyes, former labor attorney at Sidley & Austin; daughter of Republican former Indiana state senator Virginia Murphy Blankenbaker; goddaughter of Patricia Albjerg Graham[49]
6. Scott C. Smith, president, CEO and publisher of the Chicago Tribune; former president, CEO and publisher of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel of Fort Lauderdale; former chairman of the South Florida Annenberg Challenge
7. Nancy Searle, consultant to the Searle Funds at the Chicago Community Trust
8. Victoria Chou, dean of the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago
9. John W. McCarter, Jr., president and CEO of the Field Museum
10. Jim Reynolds, Jr., co-founder, chairman and CEO of Loop Capital Services

Ouch, someone wakeup the Jim Reynolds. Terrorist!

Rob really breaks the stere... (Below threshold)

Rob really breaks the stereotype that socialists are tedious, emotionally stunted pedants, huh?

What Obama's redistribution... (Below threshold)
AJ:

What Obama's redistribution of wealth plan doesn't take into account is that he will be really hurting people just like that plumber and his workers, as well as the trade. The plumber will be forced to lay off workers. Those workers then won't be working enough hours to become a Master in their field. So what becomes of these laid-off workers whose careers are suddenly gone? I suppose they could always join Obama's Civilian Security Force... :/

Rob -"What woul... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Rob -

"What would you like to do with the unemployed, the stupid, the people that are just toooo lazy to become rich, the mentally or physically handicapped?"

As far as the mentally or physically handicapped go - there's a need for government support there.

The others? Hmmmm. Let's see.... how about we have an environment where the unemployed, the stupid, the lazy are employable because there's GOOD JOBS to be had? And they're ENCOURAGED to get jobs because they PAY WELL, unstead of being taxed to an insane degree? And they can feel good about themselves because they can provide FOR themselves and their families (if they exist) beyond what the government would grudgingly give them?

Or would it be better to simply tax the producers in this country to near death and give that money out as a meager check each month so they can STAY unemployed and stupid and lazy, and be reminded each month that they're ENTIRELY dependent on some vast, faceless bureaucracy and they'd damn well better vote properly or they might not get their beer money each month!

Let's see.... damn tough choice, isn't it?

You know, that Fair Tax plan is looking better and better. Anyone have that plumber's e-mail? He might like to look it over. Somehow, I don't think HE will be voting for Obama...

Hey Rob, is you are for red... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Hey Rob, is you are for redistributing wealth, why just tax the wealthy? Who determines what is wealth? What matrix or formula?

I have read your comments and I have come to the conclusion you have no idea what you are talking about.

Also, you list Obama's scholastic accomplishments, yet GW Bush's is equally impressive yet you guys called him an idiot. So, schooling is now out of consideration. What else does Obama bring? ww

LOL. I'm glad I went to be... (Below threshold)

LOL. I'm glad I went to bed. Obviously, I was wasting my time, but I should've known that already.

"What else does Obama bring... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

"What else does Obama bring?"

A 'D' behind the name - and that's about it!

The difference between W an... (Below threshold)
Rob:

The difference between W and O is that W had an important pappy Alumni. It's easier to get into an Ivy league school with a famous father alumni. Obama didn't have that. Afterwards, Obama went to harvard law, which is the tougher coupe, while GW got rejected from U of Texas.

BTW, he excelled there too? George barely made it through Yale as an undergrad.

And I didn't say he - or Palin are stupid, they both are clearly smart in different ways. Not intellectually though.

"Hey Rob, is you are for re... (Below threshold)
Rob:

"Hey Rob, is you are for redistributing wealth, why just tax the wealthy?"

As someone else pointed out, we already have a progressive tax rate, this is nothing new.

"I have read your comments and I have come to the conclusion you have no idea what you are talking about. "

Ouch!

If Obama wants to redistrib... (Below threshold)
Stan25:

If Obama wants to redistribute the wealth, why doesn t he start with his own pocket book? We all know that he won t do that, but he will with other people money. That goes for all of the rich Democrats.

Don't assume it's ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Don't assume it's to give anything away.. think Reagan / Gorbachev. You want McCain meeting Iran? Or Hussein? How far has being hated gotten us? Lots of dead and a destabilized nation that used to be non-secular amongst religious nuts.

Good God. More rhetorical spew. "McCain is the Maverick." Well, Obama is "The One". Which Hussein are you talking about? All anyone needs to hear is a playback when Obama says, "You'll have an epiphany, a light will come down and tell you to vote for Barack." So, there you have Mr. Pragmatic in all his glory. And I'll have to agree, Rob, you have no idea what you are talking about. You're just hoping nobody else does either, so you would definitely be the perfect Obama supporter.




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