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The Obama Thugocracy Goes After Joe the Plumber

If you scroll down you will find several posts by me and others here about the attacks from the left on Joe the Plumber, the Ohio man who dared to ask The One a question when his Messiahness strolled into his neighborhood. That is the subject of my Townhall column today as well. Here is an excerpt:

Some liberal bloggers went after Joe the Plumber saying he didn't even make $250,000 and that he would receive a tax cut under Barack Obama's plan, supposedly proving "Joe the Plumber" was a Republican lie. Here is what Joe said in the exchange with Obama: "I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes about 250, 270-80 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan is going to tax me more isn't it?" So much for the Republican lie. Joe told Obama that he was planning on buying a company, which he hoped would put him in that $250,000 or more income range in the future, which prompted Obama's response about spreading the wealth around. By choosing that line of attack, those on the left proved what many of us on the right already believed - that they don't "get" the basic concept of the American dream.

The American "dream" is about aspiring to improve your lot - to take advantage of the freedoms this country affords those who are willing to work hard, invest time and energy and often to take risks, to achieve success. In the response of liberals trying to blunt the effect of Obama's spread the wealth comment they revealed their inability to understand that basic concept. Obama did the same in the full response he gave to Joe's question. Obama stressed over and over again not what his tax plan would do to those who have begun to experience the success of the American dream, but only what it would do for those behind them. The idea that increasing taxes on the rich could negatively impact the not yet rich is a completely foreign notion.
...
On Good Morning America in an interview with Diane Sawyer, Joe the Plumber said Obama's plan to take more money from those who are successful is "scary" and a "very socialist view" and a "slippery slope." If he continues to talk like that, and if he continues to resonate with Americans, there is no telling what we will learn next about Joe Wurzelbacher. Is he Trig Palin's baby daddy? Does he wear silk undergarments? Is he really bald? The point those on the left now trying to destroy Joe the Plumber don't get is that it doesn't matter. Not only do their nasty attacks on him discourage anyone else from becoming involved in public political debate, but nothing they could dig up on him would matter anyway.

Whether Joe the Plumber is a Republican or a Democrat, a decided or undecided registered or unregistered voter, gay or straight, a wearer of boxers or briefs, a huge GOP donor or even the secret love child of John McCain doesn't matter, because it doesn't change what Barack Obama said. Of his own free will, Obama admitted that he believes his tax plan is a good thing because when you "spread the wealth around" it's good for everybody.
...

Read the whole column for the Gallup poll information James Pethokoukis cited that explains why the Left is so determined to destroy Joe the Plumber. Then read Michelle Malkin's column, "The Left Declares War on Joe the Plumber." As you can probably tell by the title, we were on the same wavelength. Update: Betsy is right there with me and Michelle.

Update: Red State has a way for those interested to show their support for Joe.

Update: I thought the stupid (sorry, but that is the kindest word I can think of) claim that Joe the Plumber is not REALLY named Joe because his full name is Samuel Joseph was just something some crazed Obama followers were making in comments (like the one I posted earlier following the jump below). I just read some posts at Newsbusters though and there are several news outlets (including ABC News) that reported this blockbuster revelation as news! Un-freaking-believable. Guess what. I think Joe Biden isn't named Joe either. I think his name is actually Joseph. I have said some dumb things in my life, but that is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Those Obamacrazies might be interested in learning that some people used to refer to John F. Kennedy as "Jack." Congressman Murtha is trying to deceive people too. I have heard him referred to as both John and Jack. Let's just go ahead and expose all these frauds that do not use the full first names their parents gave them at birth. This deserves an hour long prime time special and possibly a congressional hearing. Geez. When I first read a "Joe is really Samuel Joseph" comment I thought it was a joke, posted by a McCain supporter to ridicule the absurdity of the Obama supporters attacks on Joe, then I looked at the name on the comment. I even checked the IP to make sure it was not someone posing as a regular Obama supporter commenter. I could barely believe it when I saw that it was, no joke, being presented as a serious criticism by a real Obama supporter. I could not make this stuff up people.

The second dumbest attack regarding Joe the Plumber is that McCain didn't vet him. So now McCain has to vet private citizens who happen to live in a neighborhood Obama chooses to campaign in? I guess it only applies though if that private citizen asks a question that elicits an embarrassing, though true, comment from Obama. I also thought this was a criticism just made by a few people writing in the comments section, you know, where they wouldn't embarrass themselves in front of too many people. Not so. David Gergen and Alan Colmes, among others, made the same "accusation" against John McCain on national television. I don't get it. Why come up with lame, ridiculous, stupid "arguments" that make you sound like an idiot, when your candidate is so far ahead in the polls?

Update: Lest anyone doubt the nastiness and anger and hatred of those on the left in their desire to destroy anyone who questions the Obamessiah, just take a look at some of the comments to this post.

Here is an excerpt from one:

"This was such a plant. McCain is so unfamiliar with the Internets and The Google that he didn't realize that we could all find this out in a matter of hours. I think he thought the truth would not come out until after the election. McCain effs up again.

Apparently, the company that "Joe the Plumber" is thinking about buying is worth about $280,000, but makes around $100,000 a year. So not only is this guy a plant, but come to find out, he would actually get a bigger tax cut under Obama's plan.

The last refuge of a scoundrel like John McCain is to treat the American people like they are idiots with no access to resources to show him as the complete liar and fraud that he is.

This thing is just beginning to take shape. Anticipate "Joe the Plumber" whose name is actually Sam, and is probably wishing he had never agreed to do this whole thing, now that the IRS is looking into the back taxes he owes, sequestering himself in his home until election day. Hope he has some food stored up.

It would never occur to this reader that maybe Joe hoped the company would one day earn him more than $250,000. If I bought a company I would shoot for the stars and try to make as much money as possible, but that would make me one of those evil greedy people who is not patriotic enough. And now John McCain, who gave this country more than I am betting this reader ever did, is a scoundrel. All the silly talk about McCain thinking the public is too stupid to get information must not realize that those same Internets and Googles contain some info on The One relating to some of his associations, that is, the ones that have not been deleted in the past few weeks. And, oh no, Joe's name is actually Sam! It is actually Samuel Joseph, but what is a little fudging? The reader probably didn't realize that I can use "The Google" too. Amazing how an Obama follower wants to get so picky with names. If we are going to be precise and force people to use their full names, I wonder why so many on the left get so angry when Obama's middle name is uttered? As for the stuff about the IRS. I don't doubt that one bit. The Obama Thugocracy has already shown that they will go to great lengths to destroy anyone who dares question The One. Once he has complete power over the White House, the Congress and the Supreme Court, the IRS will be only one of the tools at his disposal.


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Comments (58)

The common wisdom immediate... (Below threshold)
Randy R:

The common wisdom immediately after the debate was that there was no memorable moment in it that would stick in the public consciousness. That may turn out to be wrong. Everyone is talking now about Joe the Plumber and I have no doubt that the attempts by the media and the Obamabots to smear the guy for daring to ask His Highness a legit question is sticking in a lot folk's craw. If Joe is still a topic of conversation a few days from now, that's very bad news for Obama. We'll see if this has legs or not.

It's no joke. He's not even... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

It's no joke. He's not even a licensed plumber (in Lucas County, you have to be licensed). He is related to the son-in-law of Charles Keating (nod, nod, wink, wink) and his father is one of the major Republican players in Ohio. This was such a plant. McCain is so unfamiliar with the Internets and The Google that he didn't realize that we could all find this out in a matter of hours. I think he thought the truth would not come out until after the election. McCain effs up again.

Apparently, the company that "Joe the Plumber" is thinking about buying is worth about $280,000, but makes around $100,000 a year. So not only is this guy a plant, but come to find out, he would actually get a bigger tax cut under Obama's plan.

The last refuge of a scoundrel like John McCain is to treat the American people like they are idiots with no access to resources to show him as the complete liar and fraud that he is.

This thing is just beginning to take shape. Anticipate "Joe the Plumber" whose name is actually Sam, and is probably wishing he had never agreed to do this whole thing, now that the IRS is looking into the back taxes he owes, sequestering himself in his home until election day. Hope he has some food stored up.

As I said in the column, it... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

As I said in the column, it doesn't matter if Joe the Plumber is John McCain's love child, or Trig Palin's dad or the biggest GOP donor on earth or the worst plumber in the world, a tax cheat, a wife beater, a child molester or an ax murderer. It doesn't even matter if he made everything up and is really a 14 year old girl from Haiti in disguise. It does not change the fact that Obama said what he said about his philosophy on taxes. If Obama wants to claim that is not really him in the video, but is an Obama look alike, then that would be relevant. But no matter how much you trash Joe the Plumber, it does not change Obama's true feelings about spreading the wealth. It might give Obama supporters a perverse thrill to destroy a guy who dared to disagree with the Obamessiah, but it does not do anything to change what Obama said. It will give the media a reason to change the story from what Obama said to Joe's personal life, and I guess that is what the goal is, but it does not change what Obama said and that is why the video was big news to voters. It revealed Obama's true beliefs.

Lori,I am so annoy... (Below threshold)
Michelle's American White Racist:

Lori,

I am so annoyed with the typical losers on CNN and MSNBC (yes, I know, I shouldn't watch them).

#1 MSNBC - Norah O'Donnell interviews Samantha Cutt from the ObamACORN campaign. Hard to conduct an interview when both show open contempt to think they need to talk about...a plumber

#2 CNN - Anderson Cooper 360 - longs video of Joe the Plumber talking about more important things like what vets returning from Iraq saying how meaningful it was to help those less fortunate...cuts back to Anderson and his panelists Gergen, Martin, and the Rep consultant who ran Hucklebee's campaign. Gergen leads off my calling Joe the "fake plumber" and it goes down hill from there.

I take this very personally. My dad worked with his hands and helped me through college doing so. These middle Americans are the same ones fighting and dying for our freedoms.

And, what has Ed Rollins, Roland Martin and Dave Gergen done for anyone? Zero.

You know, Joe the Plumber as a boy at home. The lad is learning how using free speech and questioning The Messiah leads to public lampooning and insults. Media elitism.

Ryan : "McCain is so unfami... (Below threshold)
Clown Down!:

Ryan : "McCain is so unfamiliar with the Internets and The Google that he didn't realize that we could all find this out in a matter of hours."

Yeah - "the Internets" and "The Google".

You sound like you know what's going on!

btw - Try the Blue Internet. It works better than The Red Internet or The Mutual Internet".

Ryan = FOOL. Inter... (Below threshold)
Greg:

Ryan = FOOL.
Internets! The Google!
Only a FOOL would call McCain a scoundrel.

This is a really bad tack t... (Below threshold)
just me:

This is a really bad tack to take on the part of Obama.

When his minions were digging up dirt on Joe, he had some plausible deniability, but now Obama and Biden both have questioned how much Joe the plumber makes and are arguing that he can't be in the "wealthy' tax bracket.

Of course it ignores the question Joe actually asked him, and the answer Obama actually gave.

The reality is that it doesn't matter-Joe's question was about taxes if he bought a business and it made 270-280k a year-Joe never said he was wealthy or owned a business or was already making that much.

Obama did say he wanted to "spread the wealth around."

Obama stepped in it on this one, and is attacking the wrong person. Going after a politician is one thing, shoot even going after Bristol is different, but all Joe did was ask a question while obama marched through his neighborhood. Asking a politician a question shouldn't give others the right to sift through your private life. I think the left has done far more to hurt the average american than the patriot act.

And how could this guy be a... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

And how could this guy be a plant, anyway? Supposedly this was Obama going into a random subdivision, talking to random people. Does the Right have so many operatives they could have people stationed ALL OVER OHIO on the off chance the ObamaMessiah would deign to bless the area with his exhalations?

"Joe the Plumber" is "Joe the Computer Tech" and "Joe the Mechanic" and "Joe the Electrician" and "Joe the Guy Who Wants To Succeed And Prosper in Life".

And Obama just told him - "Your money's the governments' - we'll decide how much of it YOU should keep."

Then the SOB had the nerve to LAUGH about it!

Ryan, don't be so foolish.<... (Below threshold)

Ryan, don't be so foolish.

First, Joe's first name is Samuel - his middle name is Joseph.

Second, how do you know he's "related" to someone in the Keating family? Someone told you?

Third, this was a plant? Obama goes out and knocks on doors and stops to talk to people on the street and you say Joe was a "plant"? That's funny. Who "planted" him? Axelrod?

A last, the IRS is looking into his back taxes? That's even funnier. Everyone in the country knows he owes taxes except the IRS. They now have to "look into it". How the hell do you think someone found out about back taxes? Have you ever owed back taxes? I know tons of people who have owed back taxes at some time or another. Wow, that's really damning, eh?

That was all pretty desperate there, Ryan. So tell us - how do you feel about Obama's "spread the wealth" plan now that you've repeated, verbatim, everything you've heard about "Sam".

Stop reading crooksandliars. It rots the brain.

That is correct. The left a... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

That is correct. The left and trolls here are ignoring Obama's answer. That is the key. The question is a great one. ww

Plumbarius delenda est!... (Below threshold)
Tregonsee:

Plumbarius delenda est!

Ryan I know we have the sam... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

Ryan I know we have the same first name but I could not disagree with you more on this.

First you call the guy a plant -- You serious? You think Karl Rove or someone had this guy move here knowing that one day Barack Obama would be campaigning door-to-door there. Your assertion is absolutely ridiculous. The people who live in the neighborhood had no clue he was coming there -- I am from Toledo and I know people who live on that street.

Second the whole thing about the license is kind of funny. If you read the article talking about when he signed up he has until November. Last time I checked it's not November.

Third, and most importantly, Joe the Plumber is not the issue. It's a distraction from what Senator Obama said: "Spread the Wealth"

Ryan:He's working on... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Ryan:
He's working on his license (you don't need one when you're working for a contractor in that county). He applied for his apprenticeship in November 2003, and has to be an apprentice for FIVE YEARS before he can apply for his own license. It's October 2008 - do the math.

He may or may not be closely related to Charles Keating (he has the same last name as one of Keating's son-in-laws, and no, that's not "closely related" as the initial leftist talking points claimed). If his father is some sort of political mover and shaker, then why is he a plumber at age 34? If he were a connected Democrat, he'd have a cushy city job, or be running for Congress. With his experience, he could wait another year and run for President on the Democratic ticket.

Those GOP geniuses: they managed to "plant" someone in his own home, and got Obama to walk up to him and ask him a wide-open question.

The "$250,000/100,000" issue is still there. When you're running your own incorporated business, your tax issues start with your gross, not your net. A plumbing company that grosses $250,000 a year is basically one guy and a truck. For every extra guy he hires (and he will need to, to run a real plumbing business), the gross goes up by at least $150,000, but usually $250,000 or more. So when it gets to the "Joe plus four or five guys" stage, it's easily a million dollar gross a year. The company he wants to buy only grosses $100,000 or so a year - which is obviously why it's up for sale. Once you start large-scale contracting of any sort, you need to increase sales a lot, or you can't get customers in the first place. Sure, he could settle for a handful of jobs, and never plan on moving up or making more than the "average". But then he'd be a Democrat.

It's really funny when Democrats try to pretend they know something about business.

It's like cows trying to go water skiing.

The Libtards have turned BO... (Below threshold)
Rob:

The Libtards have turned BO's plan around to say that the tax is on PROFITS over 250K. How stupid is this line? If taxes were based on profits we would all show a loss and never pay any taxes!
While I personally refuse to participate in our states (Michigan) recession, I will outright revolt over "The Ones" tax plan if he gets coronated by those in America who are unwilling to see the truth of this election.

When I ran a business in Mi... (Below threshold)
epador:

When I ran a business in Michigan, the "small business tax" was 4% OF MY GROSS. It was written and supported by the Democrats there. I had a high overhead business, about 65% in a good year. That "4%" was more than 10% of my net income more than once. In addition to the State income tax and Federal income tax, FICA and etc., there were years where my effective tax rate went to 60%.

And Obama mocks and jeers at the small business dreaming single parent because he dares to ask a pointed question.

I think it's time to update... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

I think it's time to update George Burns' famous quip:

"Too bad that all the people who really know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair."

It should now be: "Too bad that all the people who really know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs, cutting hair and plumbing."

They have to pry into every... (Below threshold)

They have to pry into every detail of Joe's life, or else they'll have to start talking about how Obama outed himself as a socialist.

If the 250,000 figure refer... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

If the 250,000 figure refers to gross business income, it is very disingenuous for the media, Biden and Obama to be throwing that figure around the way they are, claiming that anyone "making" 250k a year shouldn't complain. Cirby is exactly right. A business grossing 250k a may not be netting anything.

Ok I think I have this now ... (Below threshold)
Chip:

Ok I think I have this now in the liberal mindset.

relevant = Joe's not his real name and he's not a licensed plumber.

irelevant = Obama - "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

Got it.

"If Obama wants to claim... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

"If Obama wants to claim that is not really him in the video, but is an Obama look alike, then that would be relevant."

I would be surprised if Obama ends up saying: The Barak Obama who said "spread the wealth around" was no the Barack Obama that I know...

D'oh, typo. I meant "I wou... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

D'oh, typo. I meant "I wouldn't be surprised...

And the thing about him "no... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

And the thing about him "not being licensed" just shows how clueless and out of touch the leftists and their media organs are with productive, working people.

P. Buyan. YEP! Not long ago... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

P. Buyan. YEP! Not long ago I helped my bro frame in a stairway. My father-in-law, who's father was a licenced carpenter, declared my bro's work something his father would admire. And my bro is not a licenced carpenter; he taught himself.

I'm NOT knocking licenced work or those who have them -- far from it! But just because one isn't licenced (*yet,* as in the case of Joe the plumber) doesn't mean they're not "really" a plumber or carpenter or whatever. Sometimes, a license is worth about as much as a drivers license: it's a mere formality.

This whole attack on Joe is pathetic, because the libs/Dems/media/Obama didn't like being asked a really tough question that exposed the truth.

You had to see it coming th... (Below threshold)

You had to see it coming though, before Obama finished answering the guys question.
How dare he ask an unscripted, frank, relevant question?
Punishable by total character assassination.
Classy. The question and answer are still relevant.

Some did dig up some tax lien dirt over at the Obama campaign. Touche.
It's linked at my site.

Third, this was a plant?... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Third, this was a plant? Obama goes out and knocks on doors and stops to talk to people on the street and you say Joe was a "plant"? That's funny. Who "planted" him? Axelrod?

But when he stopped Senator Barack Obama during a visit to his block this weekend to ask about his taxes, he set himself on a path to being the newest media celebrity ... Mr. Wurzelbacher told Ms. Couric that his encounter with Mr. Obama was a matter of impulse. ... He went on, "You know, I've always wanted to ask one of these guys a question and really corner them..."

Watch the video. Read the above. I don't think he was a plant, but nor was he just some guy who Obama stopped on the street. He approached Obama with an agenda.

This is hilarious. Even if... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

This is hilarious. Even if he was a Karl Rove sleeper camping out on that block waiting for two years for Obama to come so he could approach him with an agenda, what difference does it make? I will repeat, Joe could be the biggest GOP donor and John McCain's love child and it would not change what Obama said about his idea/philosophy on taxes. Obama said it and all this stupid stuff about him being a plant or "Sam" being his "real" name, and whether or not he has a valid license is just pathetic and desperate and silly. But I understand the reason now. My husband does not follow politics. He is not an economics expert. He is just an average Joe (not his real name). Anyway, he got back from a business trip an hour ago and I asked him if he had heard of Joe the Plumber. He had not. He didn't watch the debate and doesn't read political blogs. Anyway, I told him that he was getting a lot of attention because he asked Obama a tax question and Obama responded by saying spreading the wealth around is good for everybody. My husband's eyes got as big as saucers and his jaw dropped. He said, "He didn't." I said, "yes he did." He said "I guess he just ruined his chances of getting elected." I told him Obama was far enough ahead that he was still favored to win, in spite of that comment, but that things were tightening up. Anyway, his reaction to that spread the wealth line was about 10 times stronger than I dreamed it would be.

He's working on his lice... (Below threshold)
Brian:

He's working on his license (you don't need one when you're working for a contractor in that county). He applied for his apprenticeship in November 2003, and has to be an apprentice for FIVE YEARS before he can apply for his own license.


Unlike some other states, Ohio does not have a formal statewide licensing system for plumbers. But the city of Toledo and other municipalities do, Mr. Joseph said, and Mr. Wurzelbacher has not met those requirements.

"All contractors are licensed, and he does not have a license, either as a contractor or a plumber," the union official said, citing a search of government records. "I can't find that he's ever even applied for any kind of apprenticeship, and he has never belonged to local 189 in Columbus, which is what he claims on his Facebook page."

"He has no license whatsoever with the city of Toledo," said Tom Joseph, the business manager for Local Union 50 of the Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, which has endorsed Obama. "He has no license in the state of Ohio. He has no contractor's license in the state of Ohio. He is not a plumber. He works for a plumber."

What about Wurzelbacher's claim that he is "gettin' ready to buy a company that makes about two hundred and fifty, two hundred and seventy, two hundred and eighty thousand dollars a year" ... ? Wurzelbacher told reporters that when he was hired by Newell six years ago "the possibility of him eventually buying the company was discussed during his job interview."

According to Joseph, Newell Plumbing & Heating is far from a $250K-a-year operation. Newell is running "a two-man shop," he said. "This is not a thriving business."

Isn't there a chance it could be worth $250K? "Oh, God no," Joseph said. "Maybe if he sells him the house, the garage." He explained that the address for the business "is where the man lives at."

Brian:Exactly. ... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Brian:
Exactly.

HE HAS NOT MET THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS TO BE A PLUMBER, BECAUSE HE HASN'T APPRENTICED LONG ENOUGH, BY COUNTY LAW.

I told you this in my post above. Sorry you weren't able to understand or remember that.

Meanwhile, other people have found his apprenticeship paperwork, so the above-mentioned Democrat official is talking out of his ass.

Meanwhile, as pretty much everyone has mentioned (again, including myself, early in the thread), it's a $100K business, and can BE a $250K business without drastic efforts.

By the way... when they tried to look up the plumber's licenses for the local plumbers' union, it turns out that pretty much all of the officials in that union aren't currently registered plumbers either.

Oops.

Meanwhile, as pretty muc... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Meanwhile, as pretty much everyone has mentioned (again, including myself, early in the thread), it's a $100K business, and can BE a $250K business without drastic efforts.

According to Joseph, Newell Plumbing & Heating is far from a $250K-a-year operation. Newell is running "a two-man shop," he said. "This is not a thriving business."

Isn't there a chance it could be worth $250K? "Oh, God no," Joseph said. "Maybe if he sells him the house, the garage." He explained that the address for the business "is where the man lives at."

I told you this in my post above. Sorry you weren't able to understand or remember that.

But, I'll defer to you instead. I had no idea it was so easy to grow your business by 150%. More people should do it. By the way, on his way up to $250K he'll be doing better under Obama's plan.

Those on the left.... (Below threshold)
J.R.:

Those on the left.

Stop attacking the messenger if you can. I know it's hard, but please like Lorie has stated already, address the message. You know, the "spread the wealth around" one.

Brian, Ryan, et al. what say you about that?

"spread the wealth"? Presid... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

"spread the wealth"? Presidential candidate? What?

I thought this was a discussion of whether or not some guy in Ohio was really named Sam or Joe and whether nor not his plumber license was up to snuff and whether or not the business he wants to buy is likely to make $150,000 or $200,000. Because, after all, that Sam/Joe guy will be making tax policy for all Americans if he is elected President one day.

HA!

Just ignore the Obama followers who are trying to change the subject away from Obama's damning admission. The ridiculous back and forth over Joe's name, etc., just make them look silly and desperate the change the subject. Enough said. Just ignore them now guys. Everyone knows what they are trying to do.

By the way, since it seems ... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

By the way, since it seems you can't get sarcasm or irony through your thick conservative skulls, I said "the internets" and "the Google" in a mocking jab at McCain.

I knew you meant it as a ja... (Below threshold)
Lorie Byrd:

I knew you meant it as a jab. I was just jabbing back because it was such an asinine comment because if you knew anything about McCain you would know how far ahead of the others he has been in his understanding of the importance of the internet. Back when Obama did the "he can't even type on a computer" ad I went into all the specifics about Joe Trippi crediting the 2000 McCain campaign as the first to utilize the internet and all the other praise for his innovative use of computers and the internet in his campaigns. His current eCampaign is excellent and is credited by many, including me, as contributing to his primary win.

This is ridiculous. This is... (Below threshold)
Joe the Blog Reader:

This is ridiculous. This is a pure example of how extreme and stupid a Base can be. Everyone on here is extremely to the RIGHT, and fail to understand that the media, not the Obama campaign has been going after Joe the Plumber, when John McCain, not Obama, made him a central part of the debate Wednesday. To put, as a title of your very idiotic and misguided blog, "The Obama Thugocracy...", shoots down any crediblity you have as a writer to me, because you speak in common, ignorant terms. So this arguement is going no where and give it up.

I would like to point out t... (Below threshold)
Jeremy:

I would like to point out that Joe never would have been in the spotlight this much had McCain not made him a center point of his campaign. If we're talking about poor ol' Joe being harassed and bothered just for asking a simple question, the culprit for his fame would be McCain, not Obama.

I do, however, agree that Joe's personal story is irrelevant and it's the actual answer that matters.

Guys, this is ridiculous. ... (Below threshold)
Dusty:

Guys, this is ridiculous. Do you know how much Obama wants to increase taxes in that bracket? From 36% to 39%, and that's only on the amount of income OVER $250,000. So, let's assume Joe nets $350k per year from his newly-acquired business. As the tax is now, he would pay $126,000 in taxes, taking home $224,000. Under Obama's plan, he would pay $129,000, taking home $221,000. Seriously? Only $3,000 is how much MORE he would take home without the increase?! I'd say he's still doin' pretty darn good. (Sarah Palin might concur with a "You betcha!"). That's quite a small price to pay to relieve the burden on his own employees, as well as his cousin Joe SixPack who just found out that he has terminal cancer and, consequently, got fired from his job and now depends upon Social Security and Food Stamps in order to live the rest of his short life with some semblance of dignity. Give me a break.

[Btw, Joe SixPack's termina... (Below threshold)
Dusty:

[Btw, Joe SixPack's terminal cancer is, obviously, cancer of the liver.]

Aww...goodness! Yahoo posts... (Below threshold)
Dean:

Aww...goodness! Yahoo posts a right-wing finger-salute thugocracy title and every McCain dipshit comes out of the woodwork screaming...yeah!
Shiny-headed oh-I'm-so-taxed planted thug gets OBAMA to talk to him and illicits screaming dumb-as-dirt insults from every repukian that reads the article. Only two things were proved by this article 1) Yahoo is a thug-right-wing pukin' rag, and 2) They suceeded in pushing up a lot of dumb-as-pig-shit McCain loosers!

It's not Joe the plumber. ... (Below threshold)
Euell Neverno:

It's not Joe the plumber. It's Joe the liar, who was introduced by McCain the fool. I laughed myself silly, when McCain came up with "Joe the plumber." As it turns out, Joe has apparently never apprenticed, is not licensed to be a plumber, has an ongoing tax lien, makes about $40k per year, and hasn't got a pot to piss in. Consequently, Joe the non-plumber may lose his job, but certainly will not be able to buy the small company for which he works anytime soon. This is such a laugheroo, and the fools on this blog who seek to keep Joe (or Steve, or whatever his name is) in play are just helping elect Obama, for truly Joe the plumber is a huge embarrassment for the McCain campaign. If they haven't figured that out yet, then they are even dumber than I thought.

i hope this thing continues... (Below threshold)
david unction:

i hope this thing continues because it certainly seems to have struck a raw note which i believe is inspired.

Euell and Dean:I'm... (Below threshold)
Dusty:

Euell and Dean:

I'm as left as you can be. But if you'll notice, instead of launching an assault on the intelligence or otherwise blathering on in an incoherent manner, I set forth an example that might show righties why the effect of the tax on Joe the Plumber, or anyone else for that matter, is relatively inconsequential in light of the benefits that it may confer in the public at large. So, please, do us all a favor and either post something productive or scroll your little mouse up to the upper right hand corner and click that little red box with an "X" in it.

It doesn't take much to enc... (Below threshold)
maggie:

It doesn't take much to encourage the trolls,
and mobies to come out into the light of day.

1. Abolition of property ow... (Below threshold)
Scott:

1. Abolition of property ownership.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State.

8. Equal liability of all to work.

9. A more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools.b>

-Karl Marx, Communist Manifesto 1848

Obama IS on this path - our entire government IS already on this path - BEWARE!!!!

Redistribution of wealth is the plausible justification that will lead towards CONFISCATION of all wealth - even Joe the Plumber knows what these guys are up to!!!

Repeal the 16th Ammendment that gives the Government the right to take our income and withhold it from our paychecks!!!!

I find it intriguing that t... (Below threshold)
Darren:

I find it intriguing that the same people decrying the "public lampooning" of Joe the plumber refer to a presidential candidate as "the one" or the "messiah" in obviously sarcastic undertone. Joe the Plumber didn't have to come out and give the interviews when the reporters showed up. He could have said, "no comment," especially knowing that he was in no position to buy his company without the financial means or the plumbers license required to do so.

As for the "spreading the wealth" comment, I think it's just a vernacular way of describing a progressive tax system, whereby the poor pay a lower rate than the rich. Not many small businesses actually make $250,000/year in profits. (There is a big difference between gross revenues and profits!) Conversely, you could describe the previous 7 years of our progressive tax system as a different form of wealth redistribution: We in the middle class have been spreading our wealth upward to the upper classes. The middle class has shrunk as the divide between rich and poor has grown. Now John McCain wants to get rid of capital gains taxes when 90% of our nations' capital gains tax income comes from people who make over 1 million dollars a year.

I feel sorry for Joe the plumber. But I think it's disengenuous to blame Obama. After all, John McCain was the one who repeatedly brought him up in the third debate. Maybe Joe will have another look at his income taxes for this year and probably the next, since it doesn't appear likely that he'll be netting more than $250,000/year anytime soon. Maybe he'll think twice about the higher taxes he'll pay under John McCain and maybe he'll think to himself: "Maybe this whole American dream thing is not about protecting a few more thousand dollars in some rich guys pocket, but it's rather about sending my kid to college."

Good luck, Joe.

Obama voted twice to raise ... (Below threshold)
Scott:

Obama voted twice to raise taxes on families making around $40,000 per year by supporting the termination of the Bush tax cuts - which McCain wants to keep.

Obama = more taxes

McCain = less taxes

Remember that Carter wrecked the teetering economy he inherited from Ford (remember 21% interest rates? 13% inflation? 10% unemployment?) - Reagan saved it by CUTTING TAXES.

Dusty...In your ex... (Below threshold)
Scott:

Dusty...

In your example, if Joe paid no taxes, he could hire another worker (create jobs) or buy in a new truck or some equipment for his company (creating jobs for truck makers and pipe wrench makers) or even pay more for their health insurance...

What happens if Joe has a bad year next year and loses money? He could have used that $125,000 to fall back on in hard times.

That is what happened to my business - I had to borrow money to pay last year's taxes because the economy soured and my cash flow dried up. But because I had ONE good year, I should pay taxes on that... Where is my rebate for this year when I have a loss? Or the years before that when I was building this company and spending money to invest in it and losing money then?

Now I might have to cut health insurance benefits for 70 employees - but if I got my taxes back from my one good year, I wouldn't have to think about it.

Joe the Plumber, if you're ... (Below threshold)
ClassicFilm:

Joe the Plumber, if you're reading this, I'm so sorry that our "vulture media" and the Obama-bots are treating you so shabbily. You'd think Britney Spears had shaved her head again or that Dem Mahoney was caught paying off hush money to a third mistress... it's disgraceful and frightening and so very Orwellian what's happening to you this week.

But Joe, I gotta tell you, man - thank you for taking the hit for all of us who still believe that this is the greatest country in the world. You did it, you made Obama slip up and honestly express his agenda - "spread the wealth" - telling America that he is indeed a socialist and that is the America we would get under his command. You asked the question that started the avalanche. I applaud you, Joe the Plumber - you're an unwitting hero, but one, nonetheless. And frankly, I don't give a damn about whether you're Sam/Joe the Unlicensed/Tax-Liened Plumber or not - everyone has flaws, but no one has to show them to millions of Americans... unless you're in the crosshairs of the Obama Thug Machine. You'll rise from this, Joe - bet your son is proud of you, too. These attempts at character assassination are mere distractions like gnats at a picnic. Kudos, Joe, kudos!

Isn't any progressive tax "... (Below threshold)
jp2:

Isn't any progressive tax "spreading the wealth around"?

Doesn't McCain support the same type of tax? As far as I know, he's not proposing a flat tax.

According to Joseph, New... (Below threshold)
cirby:

According to Joseph, Newell Plumbing & Heating is far from a $250K-a-year operation. Newell is running "a two-man shop," he said. "This is not a thriving business."

i.e., a $100,000 business. Like we keep mentioning, and you keep ignoring.

Golly gee, you missed that part TWICE, while trying for a snarky comeback.

But, I'll defer to you instead. I had no idea it was so easy to grow your business by 150%.

Actually, it usually is. Plumbing is pretty much always in demand, and you can make a good living at it. You get much better prices on materials when you add a few more people above the "one guy in a van" stage. Many plumbing businesses go from "just getting started" to "holy crap, we need to hire a lot more people" in a short time. And even a failing plumbing business can turn around fast with a bit of good effort, or a new owner.

That's common sense business practice. But you wouldn't know about that.

Isn't any progressive ta... (Below threshold)
cirby:

Isn't any progressive tax "spreading the wealth around"?

No, not really.

As it is with most taxes, it's taking money from some people, and giving it to other people (mostly government workers), instead of letting the original folks create more wealth with it.

If you want to actually "spread the wealth," cut taxes. It works much better than those always-failing government programs.

Posted by Brian:"... (Below threshold)
Boots:

Posted by Brian:
"He has no license whatsoever with the city of Toledo," said Tom Joseph, the business manager for Local Union 50 of the Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, which has endorsed Obama.

Gee, the Business Manager of the local Plumbers Union, which has endorsed Obama, is hostile to a plumber who is 1) Not a union guy, and 2)wants to buy a non-union business.

A couple of years ago, we hired some local contractors to repair our basement after a flood/sewer backup. All the tradesmen got along great, EXCEPT for the plumbers, they were the only union guys on the job and they made sure they got in the way of the carpenters, tile setters, and electricians. The happiest time of day was when they took their mandatory long breaks and spent them sitting out in their truck, smoking heavily and scowling at my neighbors. They actually lost business for their company by doing so. By sitting in their company truck out at the curb for long stretches, they called attention to the fact they were on-the-clock but not doing any plumbing. That's the real jobs program the left wants to implement. Money for nothing!

Me: Isn't any progressive t... (Below threshold)
jp2:

Me: Isn't any progressive tax "spreading the wealth around"?

"No, not really" - says "Cirby."

So the 39% that Obama has planned is "spreading the wealth."

What is the 36% McCain has planned?

"spread the wealth" and "tr... (Below threshold)
True American:

"spread the wealth" and "trickle down" is the same thing.
If Obama said that the sun was shining all you pavlovian trained neo conservative attack dogs would try to discredit that too.
Most of the anti Obama rants with no basis in reality and re-arranging of facts smells to me like thinly veiled racism.
You all attack on command at any hint of "socialism"
Where were all the right wing neo conservatives a mere few weeks ago when this current Republican administration pushed for and got the largest socialization in American history. The $700 billion dollar bail out that will ensure that whoever does get in office next will have no choice but to raise taxes to pay for it.
"Read my lips no new taxes" was uttered by another famous Republican president. Once in he raised taxes.
This fear based neo conservative mindset has destroyed the once respectable Republican party and divided it.

Trickle down is yo... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

Trickle down is you let Americans keep more of their own money by lowering taxes. These people will then more money to spend on goods and services which will allow business to expand because of increase demand. The expanding of business then generates more capital. More capital allows for big ticket purchases (additional factories, trucks etc) that in turns generate jobs. More people are hired the tax base grows government collects additional revenue while the private sector grows.
Spread the wealth around says we will take more of you money and then give to someone else. Someone, who is not working as hard as you. How does the government give out the money? They create programs to do so. Government then grows which creates government jobs. Government Spending increases, while people have less money to spend on goods and services. Revenue to the treasury decreases. This results in the government raising taxes on the remaining base. Now what happens? Well we have to increase taxes on everyone in the base no matter what the income level is. This keeps going till we have high tax rates across the board base which hits the middle class because the lower middle class gets tax credits and effectively pays no taxes.
In addition corporate tax rates go up. This raises the cost of goods and services people are not buying. . Businesses which want to make a profit, move operations to places with lower taxes in the hopes of reducing the cost of their products. When this occurs American jobs are lost which puts a further strain on Government programs.

Anyone remember the AMT that was only to hit the very wealthy now it hits most people.
1. We are not all neo-conservatives.
2. Many of us disagree with the bailout, thinking the free market could have handled the gut check and government involvement will only prolong the pain. Also it did not address the core issue bad loans.
3. The root cause of the 700 billion dollar bail out was CRA, Mandate of Freddie May and Fanny Mac to have 50% subprime loans, government threats of lawsuits against banks who did not do risky loans.
4. All the great social programs have done nothing but cause government bloat while making all the problems worse ( through billions at education and it still sucks, through billions at ending poverty and the percentage goes up, through billions at section 8 housing , then force banks to give people who should not have homes loans)
5. Taxes are for the common good such as roads, national defense, science it not for stealing from Joe to Frank with the Government dictating how much to give.
6. Ultimately in countries that tax there people too much the people start to leave to escape the personal burden.
7. Finally you are correct I am racist I hate the race of Marxist Communist which was created by a bunch of socialites to take advantage of the common man.

I Am Joe.I dream a... (Below threshold)

I Am Joe.

I dream about a future where I make that sort of money and it turns into a nightmare when I realize The Chosen One is going to be standing there with his hand out to punish me for my success.

I Am Joe!

I found an amazing story ab... (Below threshold)
Martin:

I found an amazing story about Obama in the eBay (post # 260301619762)...Can you guys check this article and give us your take....it is about Obama doing some Islamic-tambiko...It could be October suprise.

Rollins, Cooper, Martin, Gu... (Below threshold)

Rollins, Cooper, Martin, Gurgen and the rest at CNN are such cowardly low life punks. If you rolled them all up in a ball they wouldn't make a pimple on Joe the Plumber's butt.

What nerve they have saying Joe the Plumber doesn't have the right to have an opinion on the Middle East and Israel.

Unbelievable.


hcddbz is DUMB DUMB DUMB! <... (Below threshold)
business owning woman:

hcddbz is DUMB DUMB DUMB!

This person says that "Trickle down is you let Americans keep more of their own money by lowering taxes. These people will then more money to spend on goods and services which will allow business to expand because of increase demand."

Ignorant fool. Trickle down economics, Bush and Mccain's philosophy, is that you GIVE TAX BREAKS and YOUR TAX MONEY to the uber-rich. The theory is that they choose to spend the money on new jobs, and the wealth will "trickle down." Unfortunately, this doesn't work; the wealth have hoarded the money, 800 billion dollars a year of it since 2003, and only 40 billion of it "trickles down" to the rest of the US. We've seen the greatest separation of class, wealth, and a horrendous loss of jobs, more outsourcing to cheaper countries, and cheaper products being created in China, rather than here in the US.

Obama's off-the-cuff goof of saying "spread the wealth" is what you, for some odd reason, called "trickle down."

He proposes letting the 2003 bush tax cuts expire then imposing those cuts, instead, on the middle class - the people who really need it right now. He never ONCE proposes "I'm gonna take ALL TAX PAYER MONEY AND GIVE IT TO ILLEGAL MEXICANS" Hey, that's the unspoken thing here you people are afraid of. That is not what he meant. And if you listened to the video of when he talked to "Joe the Plumber" or listened to any of his proposals rather than buy into the lies of the Rove-McCain-Palin machine which is trying to SCARE you into voting for them, then you would know that he is genuinely trying to HELP US!

His "trickle up" "spread the wealth" theory, which he states VERY CLEARLY when he answers JTP's question, is that Joe's business would make more money, IF it netted over 250k, even with the slightly higher tax rate, because the middle class would have more money to spend.

Along with that, however, he proposes tax CUTS FOR EVERY NEW JOB provided. That way, if a small business owner, like me, could help create more jobs HERE AT HOME.




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