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Papers, Please!

Joe Treacher fisks the New York Times KGB Briefing on Joe the Plumber and The Encounter. Holy hotness, batman. I don't know which is funnier, the Times' 'chronicle' or Treacher's systematic dismantling thereof.

And Joe may or may not be a symbol of entrepreneurial spirit. Sure, he says he wants to start his own business in the field he's spent years making a career in, but what does that really prove? The NYT wouldn't want to express an opinion on it one way or another.
Just five days ago, Mr. Wurzelbacher, 34, lived in anonymity in Holland, Ohio, a single father who, as he said on national television, worked all day and came home to fix dinner and help his son, 13, with his homework.

But he became the hero of conservatives and Republicans when he stopped Mr. Obama, who was campaigning on his street, and asked whether he believed in the American dream. Mr. Wurzelbacher said he was concerned about having to pay higher taxes as an owner of a small business.

He stopped Obama in the street? Holy racism, he tried to mug Obama!

No, actually, Obama approached him. The One was gracing The Many with his presence by going around door to door in Joe's neighborhood. Because Obama is A Man Of The People (Who Do Not Displease Him With Their Effrontery). Joe was in his yard playing football with his kid, and Obama saw a photo op. Whoops. So get it straight: Joe was visited by the Messiah, not the other way around.

Oh there's more...

There's more -- almost 1,000 words in all, because it's just that big of a story -- but you get the idea. Cut to the big finish:
In his interview with Ms. Couric, Mr. Wurzelbacher, who voted Republican in Ohio's March primary

Say, how did Couric vote in the New York primary?

said that his encounter with Mr. Obama had been prompted by his desire "to ask one of these guys a question, and really corner them and get them to answer a question for once instead of tap dancing around it. And unfortunately I asked the question, but I still got a tap dance."

He added, "He was almost as good as Sammy Davis Jr."

Get the picture, America? That's right: Joe the Plumber just called Obama a Jew.

Forgive, Joe, for such extensive excerpting. But for those disinclined to follow the link like good boys and girls, you simply have to see the Treacher Treats.

Best NYT story since Jayson Blair left to pursue other opportunities. Clear some shelf space for your Pulitzer, Larry.

P.S. It might be presumptuous, but I hereby propose we change "fisking" to "Rohter-rooting."

P.P.S. The whole "He's not a licensed plumber!" non sequitur is really fantastic. So, if you happen to be standing in front of Obama when he publicly reveals his socialism, what does the media do? Demands to see your papers. That's just delicious, is what that is.

The election of Barack Obama would dance dangerously close in itself to a violation of the Constitution. The First Amendment includes direction that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." But then, it depends on what the definition of is is. Because the official establishment of the First United Church of The O would be exacted through Executive Order as an expression of the Will of the People, not Congress. That zany "living, breathing document."

Both new and old meanings to the rekindled command, "Papers, Please!"

Brace yourselves. Because a friend who is a registered independent (the prime target folks) in the battleground state of Colorado has received between 100-150 calls and visits from Obama campaigners in recent weeks. Not a call or visit of any type from the McCain camp. And I hear the same thing about Virginia.

And in my parts, people ask me where in the Peoples' Republic of New Jersey they can find a McCain sign. Answer: Not on anyone's lawn, that's for sure. I am certain there is a store of them at the county HQ, but why on earth would a campaign make it so hard for folks to find or get hold of? Sure, the PRNJ has zero shot at going McCain. But the Party finds each election increasingly difficult, with zero to build from. Wonder why?


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Comments (85)

Steve, Come to Blo... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

Steve,
Come to Bloomfield and Nutley provinces we have had few of the Capitalist Underground place them on our lawns.

Also Republican headquarters on Broad St in Bloomfield has few (better get them before Obama makes a deal with Prosecutors to close it down , you know if you support McCain your racist and the signs are really a form of hate speech) .
Wait, Someone from ACORN is here demanding to see my Papers and wants to know if my cats and dogs have registered to vote in NJ ,NY and CT.

The hypocrisy LIVES on in c... (Below threshold)
J:

The hypocrisy LIVES on in conservative bizarro world.

LOL, you article are comedy gold, keep it up please!

Black is the new president bitches, get used to it.

My article "are" comedy gol... (Below threshold)
Steve Schippert:

My article "are" comedy gold? Pot. Kettle. Black.

"Black is the new president bitches"? I've never pondered a Crayola crayon assuming the office intended for a human being, but many things are possible in "bizarro world," eh?

I have no problem with a black president. None. In fact, I hoped that JC Watts would have run way back when. But no... No chance to vote for him. Instead, it's an apparent choice between John McCain and... what, a crayon now?

Support or oppose a candidate based on his principles, positions and policy proposals. Not the color of his skin, genius.

Ha! Provinces... I forgot t... (Below threshold)
Steve Schippert:

Ha! Provinces... I forgot that lesson furtively taught by our local Political Officer. Shame on me.

That's right: Joe ... (Below threshold)
That's right: Joe the Plumber just called Obama a Jew.
And why shouldn't we say, "Papers please", in response to such an outrageous act of, poorly veiled, anti-semitism ? Black is the new president indeed! This man is Moses, COME TO FREE HIS PEOPLE! So stop calling him "The One", He is merely a forebearer for the messiah. Your mocking hurts him deeply, as well as, it hinders the chances for his people to finally be unshackled from the bondage of concepts like, "Earning ones keep", and,"One citizen, one vote", and, "Life, liberty..." blah, blah, blah.

Joe the plumber, thy name is Judas. Let the plagues begin!

I don't know which is fu... (Below threshold)
Brian:

I don't know which is funnier, the Times' 'chronicle' or Treacher's systematic dismantling thereof.

Treacher is funnier; fiction often is.

He stopped Obama in the street? Holy racism, he tried to mug Obama!
No, actually, Obama approached him. ... Joe was in his yard playing football with his kid, and Obama saw a photo op. Whoops. So get it straight: Joe was visited by the Messiah, not the other way around.

This is such obvious false crap, I'm surprised you bothered to keep reading his fantasy.

First of all, watch the video. It's not even a question that Joe approached Obama. Joe was in his yard? Obama saw a photo op and approached him? I doubt even anyone at Wizbang would defend that characterization.

And if you don't believe your own lying eyes, then listen to Joe:

Mr. Wurzelbacher told Ms. Couric that his encounter with Mr. Obama was a matter of impulse. "Neighbors were outside asking him questions, and I didn't think they were asking him tough enough questions," he said.

He went on, "You know, I've always wanted to ask one of these guys a question and really corner them and get them to answer a question," he said,

See everyone? Brian just na... (Below threshold)

See everyone? Brian just nailed it: How dare that little pissant Joe, A LOWLY PLUMBER NO LESS, ask THE ONE a question!?! He simply must be destroyed! What a piece of shit you are brian, and everyone else like you. Go to hell, you will surely be more at home there than in this lousy nation that produces people with the NERVE to confront your messiah.

....Sorry, guess I was holding that in for a while.

I suspect Joe would have a ... (Below threshold)
epador:

I suspect Joe would have a few tough questions for McCain too. I bet the response might be different, and the MEDIA response WAY different. Unless of course Joe HAS taken that offer to work on that rich man's 7 houses...

Brian is correct, so... (Below threshold)
Larry:


Brian is correct, sorta.

BHO was out hustling photo ops with real people and Joe gave him a shot at a real person. So since BHO gave an answer off the cuff that many people consider bad news, the Brian ilk of the world now want to screw Joe to the ground.

If only MSM would spend that much time going over BHO. If only the Brian ilk would look at themselves in a mirror. If only.

Excuse me while I go hurl.

I am pretty sure somewhere ... (Below threshold)
just me:

I am pretty sure somewhere in Joe's own words he said he was in the yard with his kid playing football, when Obama showed up in his neighborhood. He said he wanted to ask a tough question. He did, and Obama revealed his true instincts.

But Joe didn't go find Obama to ask that question, Obama invaded his neighborhood, and he decided to make the best of it.

Going after an average everyday american for asking a question and getting the wrong answer is not okay. And the sad thing-is that it doesn't matter if Joe is felon, if Joe is really a garbage man, or that Joe doesn't actually own a business or make 250k plus a year. He asked a legitimate question, and Obama gave him a real answer.

The attacks on Joe are attempts to deflect attention from Obama's answer.

See everyone? Brian just... (Below threshold)
Brian:

See everyone? Brian just nailed it: How dare that little pissant Joe, A LOWLY PLUMBER NO LESS, ask THE ONE a question!?!

Not what I said. But you keep lobbing those strawmen. They love to fly.

Sorry, guess I was holding that in for a while.

Apparently. So much so that you needed to distort an issue to let it out.

Gee, it sure seems the Dems... (Below threshold)
MPR:

Gee, it sure seems the Dems in Ohio are a lot more concerned about Joe's back ground than they are in the back grounds of 200,000 fraudulent voter registrations.
Is Ohio going to become the Acorn State instead of the Buckeye State? I hope not.

I am pretty sure somewhe... (Below threshold)
Brian:

I am pretty sure somewhere in Joe's own words he said he was in the yard with his kid playing football, when Obama showed up in his neighborhood. He said he wanted to ask a tough question. He did, and Obama revealed his true instincts.
But Joe didn't go find Obama to ask that question, Obama invaded his neighborhood, and he decided to make the best of it.

Yeah, poor Joe. I guess Obama used his messianic powers to compel Joe to leave his yard, push through the crowd to approach Obama, and ask his question. Who can blame him? I'm sure he really wanted to just stay in his yard or go inside, but he was powerless to do so.

If only the Brian ilk wo... (Below threshold)
Brian:

If only the Brian ilk would look at themselves in a mirror. If only.

Oh, but I do. And I see the majority of the country in it.

Is Ohio going to become ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Is Ohio going to become the Acorn State instead of the Buckeye State?

Do you worry about California becoming the Young Political Majors party?

Oh, and Charlie Crist says you just enjoy chaos.

But thanks for changing the subject.

Perfect Brian!!!!!!!!!... (Below threshold)
JFO:

Perfect Brian!!!!!!!!!

I was just trying show the ... (Below threshold)
MPR:

I was just trying show the liberals hypocrisy in getting the story straight. Their paranoia knows no bounds.

Joe was in his yar... (Below threshold)
Joe was in his yard? Obama saw a photo op and approached him? I doubt even anyone at Wizbang would defend that characterization.

Scandal!

Let's say you're right, and Joe moved 10 yards to ask his question, instead of Obama moving 10 yards. What now? How does that change Obama's answer?

Scandal!No,... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Scandal!

No, just a lie.

How does that change Obama's answer?

It doesn't. It just shines a light on the dishonest description of the situation, which reveals the very large grain of salt with which the rest of the rant is to be taken.

My next door neighbor is a ... (Below threshold)
Mycroft:

My next door neighbor is a dyed in the wool democrat. Imagine my surprise when he told me he is going to vote Ralph Nader insead of the one! He can't being himself to vote McCain, but throwing away his vote works for me!

FYI: Ralph Nader is on the ballot in Florida

No, just a lie.</b... (Below threshold)
No, just a lie.

You've broken this story wide open. I hereby propose we call it Lawngate.

How does that change Obama's answer?

It doesn't.

Then what's your point? Obama explained his socialist plan. Why are you going after the guy who asked him about it?

OMG Brian. A citizen deign... (Below threshold)
epador:

OMG Brian. A citizen deigned to approach The One and challenge him Mano a Mano to a verbal duel. So he now gets a full ream job by the Left and the media. I wonder how you would feel if you ere subjected to the same scrutiny for posting a comment on this web site?

Notice how quiet they get w... (Below threshold)

Notice how quiet they get when you ask them that?

You've broken this story... (Below threshold)
Brian:

You've broken this story wide open. I hereby propose we call it Lawngate.

Ah, dismissive sarcasm. Much easier than the truth.

Obama explained his socialist plan.

And McCain explained his, what with taxing what employers pay for healthcare and using the money to give credits to their employees. Not to mention voting for the biggest socialist bailout in American history (as, yes, others have also).

Why are you going after the guy who asked him about it?

I'm not, and I don't approve of it. Just as I didn't approve when the right-wing blogs went after the SCHIP families.

But McCain's the one who thrust Joe into the spotlight. And Joe looks to me like a big boy. He doesn't have to consent to appear in McCain's ad. And he doesn't have to meet with McCain tomorrow in Ohio. If he wants the spotlight, he can't complain when it gets too hot.

A citizen deigned to app... (Below threshold)
Brian:

A citizen deigned to approach The One and challenge him Mano a Mano to a verbal duel. So he now gets a full ream job by the Left and the media.

No, as I've said before, he gets the ream job because McCain turned him into a prop. No one was looking at Joe prior to the third debate.

Notice how quiet they ge... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Notice how quiet they get when you ask them that?

Sorry, I was having a bit of a life. What, are you sitting at your keyboard clicking Refresh continuously?

If he wants the spotligh... (Below threshold)
Brian:

If he wants the spotlight, he can't complain when it gets too hot.

By the way, not that he has. But others are complaining for him.

Of course, those are the people who can't even bring themselves to concede that Jim was wrong on even a minor point.

If you're not honest about the small points, what faith should anyone have that you'll be honest about the big ones?

Obama + Odinga; Obama + Odi... (Below threshold)
BJinChicago:

Obama + Odinga; Obama + Odinga; and, in conclusion, Obama + Odinga. Case closed.

McPalin, 2008.

Ah, dismissive sar... (Below threshold)
Ah, dismissive sarcasm. Much easier than the truth.

Which is what? Obama didn't come to this guy's neighborhood?

Obama explained his socialist plan.

And McCain explained his, what with taxing what employers pay for healthcare and using the money to give credits to their employees. Not to mention voting for the biggest socialist bailout in American history (as, yes, others have also).

That's more socialist than, "I want to take your money and give it to the charity of my choice"? I guess if you just throw words back at random, you'll fool somebody eventually. "Why are you calling me a violent racist for trying to hang this black guy, when you violently cut the rope with your racist knife, you violent racist?"

Why are you going after the guy who asked him about it?

I'm not, and I don't approve of it.

Not only do you clearly approve of it, but you're contributing to it. Are you lying, insane, or just stupid?

But McCain's the one who thrust Joe into the spotlight.

Because Joe managed to do what the press is either too uninterested or too intimidated to do: Get an honest answer out of Barack Obama. He should be in the spotlight; he's an American hero!

And the more the press tries to destroy him, the more of a symbol he becomes.

And Joe looks to me like a big boy.

More mature than Obama, that's for sure.

He doesn't have to consent to appear in McCain's ad. And he doesn't have to meet with McCain tomorrow in Ohio. If he wants the spotlight, he can't complain when it gets too hot.

But Obama can. If you criticize Obama, you're a big meanie.

Sorry, I was having a bit of a life.

Now that's funny.

What, are you sitting at your keyboard clicking Refresh continuously?

Once an hour is "continuously"? (Oh, sorry, 54 minutes. Another "right-wing lie"!)

If you're not honest about the small points, what faith should anyone have that you'll be honest about the big ones?

"Our coverage of Lawngate continues. Obama didn't really say he wants to take your money and give it to people who haven't earned it, because the guy who asked him the question may or may not have stepped several feet off his own lawn to do so. More on this fast-breaking story as it develops."

No one was looking at Jo... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

No one was looking at Joe prior to the third debate.

25. Posted by Brian

Whoops! Was that a lie you just told, or a mistake?

Brian, I'm curious... (Below threshold)
Chip:

Brian,

I'm curious.

What is the relevant part of the situation with Obama and Joe? That Joe went out of his way to ask a politician that's campaigning in his neighborhood a question or the answer that Obama gave on camera?

Are you saying that if McCain had been in your area that you wouldn't like to ask him a tough question?

Brian, I'd like you to take a look at the situation that Joe has been thrust into. Is this how you would want ANY average American treated for asking a politician a question? Think about it. Obama hasn't even won yet. If he gets into power what happens to those that question him then?

brian - "But McCain's t... (Below threshold)
marc:

brian - "But McCain's the one who thrust Joe into the spotlight."

There, right there is the greatest example of the talking point smear coming from the obama-bot.

Puzzle me this brian... If it was McCain shining the spotlight on "Joe," by stating his name "21" times during the debate (that is the allegations right?) why would he do that for a complete unknown person?

Why, when the logical response by millions tuned in would have been a collective "HUH, who dat?!"

brian, you're delusional. The media had "Joe" in their sights far in advance of the debate and plastered his video and photographic evidence all over the country.

I find myself scrolling to ... (Below threshold)
twolaneflash:

I find myself scrolling to the end of a comment, to the name, to avoid stepping in troll scat, much like walking through the cow pasture. I remember my days on the East German border. Show me your papers, indeed!

"...in the battleground sta... (Below threshold)
MjM:

"...in the battleground state of Colorado has received between 100-150 calls and visits from Obama campaigners in recent weeks.."

Wouldn't that be just so freakn' annoying that you'd vote McCain just for spite?

What is the relevant par... (Below threshold)
Brian:

What is the relevant part of the situation with Obama and Joe? That Joe went out of his way to ask a politician that's campaigning in his neighborhood a question or the answer that Obama gave on camera?

Ask Treacher. He went out of his way to lie about the former ("Holy racism, he tried to mug Obama!"), and I was just calling him on it. Why would he try to distort the observable truth about that if he didn't feel it was relevant? And it was the very first excerpt that Steve posted in this thread. Did he think it relevant?

Is this how you would want ANY average American treated for asking a politician a question?

This is a logical fallacy known as the "loaded question" or "complex question". (The common example is "when did you stop beating your wife?")

Joe didn't get any treatment "for asking a question". Joe asked a question. Joe got an answer. Joe went home to dinner with his kid. Obama and the media went home too. Three days pass. No one takes a second look at Joe. Then the debate. McCain brings up "Joe the Plumber". And invokes him over and over. At the beginning of the debate, nine times by McCain, twice by Obama. Twenty four times by the end. THAT'S when the media descended upon him.

Brian:It... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Brian:

It's not even a question that Joe approached Obama.

I'm curious... so you think that was Obama's house in the background, not Joe's or one of Joe's neighbors ?

The fact is 'The One' decided to go out and wander among the unwashed masses and actual said something that reveals who he is.. a socialist.... and the left's response... "Joe doesn't have a plumber's license!".

Puzzle me this brian... ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Puzzle me this brian... If it was McCain shining the spotlight on "Joe," by stating his name "21" times during the debate (that is the allegations right?) why would he do that for a complete unknown person?

Gee, I dunno, marc. I have no idea why a politician would cite an unknown person as someone he represents.

Are you that naive, or just playing that way?

The bottom line is that Joe... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

The bottom line is that Joe is getting an anal exam by the MSM and the Messiah is getting a pass on the socialist statement he uttered.

If the MSM were to do to Obama what they are doing to Joe his popularity would be in the toilet, where it belongs.

I suspect Joe woul... (Below threshold)
I suspect Joe would have a few tough questions for McCain too. I bet the response might be different, and the MEDIA response WAY different.

That's exactly right. If Joe had asked McCain a tough question and McCain had bobbled it, the MSM and other Obamabots would now be holding up Joe as a hero.

You lie, Brian. Joe got lo... (Below threshold)
epador:

You lie, Brian. Joe got lots of attention. I saw him on CNN and ABC BEFORE the debate. I saw him all over the internet. McCain picked up on it and used it.

The point is that if he had run into McCain, and asked him a similar hard question, the media would be all over McCain's answer and propping up poor ol' Joe as a victim of those nasty Republicans ruining the economy and tax system.

When Joe became and embarrassment for the Obama campaign, they did what they do best, they smeared him relentlessly. Obama made fun of him, mocked him and laughed at him in public rallies. You can not deny that. Joe was polite and civil. Obama is not.

That classless, rude and elitist behavior is what makes Obama such a poor choice for any elected office. Unless you are a Democrat, it seems.

You lie, Brian. Joe got ... (Below threshold)
Brian:

You lie, Brian. Joe got lots of attention. I saw him on CNN and ABC BEFORE the debate. I saw him all over the internet. McCain picked up on it and used it.

There was no digging into his background until after McCain brought him up in the debate.

brian - "Gee, I dunno, ... (Below threshold)
marc:

brian - "Gee, I dunno, marc. I have no idea why a politician would cite an unknown person as someone he represents. Are you that naive, or just playing that way?"

That's your best? To link to a vid, from another debate altogether?

I may be naive, about a lot of things. But that doesn't include your load of horseshit with regards to what and where "Joe" got all the attention.

Who will I believe, my own eyes that saw him on every major network including those outside the U.S. (the BBC for one) long PRIOR to debates start... or am I to believe someone who nACAR has anything good to say about anything closely resembling republicans.

The choice is obvious. And it AIN't you.

Ask Treacher. He w... (Below threshold)
Ask Treacher. He went out of his way to lie

If I'm mistaken, by a matter of yards, about how far Joe was from his own lawn when Obama told him the truth about his socialist ethos and the whole world heard it, then I'm mistaken. Thank you for your patience.

So: How does that change Obama's answer?

You lie, Brian. Joe got lots of attention. I saw him on CNN and ABC BEFORE the debate. I saw him all over the internet.

See, when Brian does it, it's not a lie. Just watch.

Joe got lots of attentio... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Joe got lots of attention. I saw him on CNN and ABC BEFORE the debate.

Actually, you prove my point. You say you saw him on CNN and ABC (*gasp* you admit to watching the hateful MSM?). What were they doing? Asking him about his license? Or holding him up as a celebrity?

So much for the meme about the media tearing up anyone who dares ask Obama a question.

That's your best? To lin... (Below threshold)
Brian:

That's your best? To link to a vid, from another debate altogether?

Uh, yeah, marc. When you pretend you don't understand why McCain would mention an unknown during a debate, I point you to another instance of him doing the same thing. I kind of figured that even you would get that.

If I'm mistaken, by a ma... (Below threshold)
Brian:

If I'm mistaken, by a matter of yards, about how far Joe was from his own lawn

Wow.

Even now, you don't have the honesty to just say "OK, OK, I made that part up."

Brian, your name is on 13 o... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Brian, your name is on 13 out of forty-odd comments, and you have a life? That's a good one. What person who is concerned about "issues", that has been brought up a couple of times on this blog, is not going to want to ask a hard question? And notice he said "one of these guys", not just Obama. The actual icing on the cake was the "higher taxes" response from That One, and which you completely side-step.

If you really believe Obama's response is not going to affect you in a negative way, then you are not just lying, you are focusing on a moot point.

By the way, Brian, I'm basi... (Below threshold)

By the way, Brian, I'm basing my "lie" on the account of their meeting by a newspaper I'm sure you know and trust, the New York Times. They said:

If Senator Barack Obama had not dropped by Shrewsbury Street in Holland, Ohio, on Sunday afternoon, "Joe the Plumber" would never have become a character in the presidential debate.

Joe Wurzelbacher was among those who turned out to see Mr. Obama, who had stopped to join campaign volunteers as they canvassed voters door-to-door in a neighborhood outside Toledo. Mr. Obama first noticed him when Mr. Wurzelbacher was shouting from afar, "Do you believe in the American dream?"

Mr. Obama walked over and engaged in conversation.

"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" Mr. Wurzelbacher said.

Now, if the Times is wrong -- or as you choose to characterize it, "lying" -- you should take it up with them before they embarrass themselves any further by distorting the observable truth and so forth.

Correction: 15 and counting... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Correction: 15 and counting...

Wow.Even now,... (Below threshold)
Wow.

Even now, you don't have the honesty to just say "OK, OK, I made that part up."

Wow yourself. Talk to the NYT.

By the way, Brian, I'm b... (Below threshold)
Brian:

By the way, Brian, I'm basing my "lie" on the account of their meeting by a newspaper I'm sure you know and trust, the New York Times. They said:

Apparently you missed where they said "Joe Wurzelbacher was among those who turned out to see Mr. Obama" and "Mr. Wurzelbacher was shouting".

And to you that translates to "Joe was in his yard playing football with his kid, and Obama saw a photo op"?

I can't believe I am hittin... (Below threshold)
Tony Tourette:

I can't believe I am hitting submit. But, fuck, this shit is pissing me off.

Brian-

Looking at Joe? Why in the FUCK is anyone looking at Joe? Oh. Of course. TO CHANGE THE FUCKING SUBJECT. Obama's comments would have been ignored had it not been brought up in "debate" III. I SURE AS FUCK KNEW ABOUT HIS SHARE THE FUCKING WEALTH BULLSHIT BEFORE THE "DEBATE". If you didn't, Brian, I frankly don't give a flying fuck about the timing of his from the hip conversation going mainstream, because YOU APPARENTLY AGREE WITH IT. Otherwise, you wouldn't be squawking on and on about "Joe", you'd be mad as hell that your PRIOR selection for President is a FUCKING MARXIST.

As for me, I made my bed and I sleep in it. There is plenty of opportunity in this free market society for me to upgrade. But life in America is so fucking good and so fucking easy that I sometimes find myself complaining like all the liberal douchebag pussies who can't play a game, come in last and still get a fucking pizza and a trophy. Wahh. I don't have this or that. Why improve jack shit? Middle class life in America is fucking AWESOME. If you didn't make it to lower middle class in this country in 2008, well, fuck, Palin is your girl cuz you have serious, serious disabilities. Or shit isn't bad enough for ya to fucking DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Why should anyone who has put in extra effort give Brian their shit? Obama's plan is stealing, plain and simple. Taking from one and giving it to Brian or whomever he "feels" should get it. And Brian, if you feel so strongly about "fairness" and the "disadvantaged", DO SOMETHING YOUR FUCKING SELF.

If I want to steal from people who have more than I do, whether due to hard work or luck or inheritance or environment or what the fuck ever, and either give it to myself or to some other "disadvanted" person because I am unable to TAKE UP MY "I AM MY BROTHER'S KEEPER" cause on my OWN, I'll vote for Obama. Like Brian.

And motherfucking Obama quotes the Bible while legislating theft.

Fuck Obama.

You can't shout and play fo... (Below threshold)

You can't shout and play football at the same time? Somebody had better tell Peyton Manning. But if you're right, and Joe was not in fact playing football at the time he claimed, I think it's about time somebody brought in the Secret Service.

You raise a good point about him "turning out," too. Obama turned up in Joe's neighborhood, not the other way around. I'm sure you're already fired off an angry e-mail to the NYT about this vital detail of the story.

"And to you that translates... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"And to you that translates to "Joe was in his yard playing football with his kid, and Obama saw a photo op"?"

Why wouldn't his shouting prompt Obama to walk over there so Joe could ask his question? You are really milking this story. The election will be over and you will still be yacking about the wording on this post.

The election will ... (Below threshold)
The election will be over and you will still be yacking about the wording on this post.

Anything to avoid talking about Obama's socialism, apparently. If Obama loses, I can see a whole 10/12 Truther movement growing out of Brian's fine work here today.

Why wouldn't his shoutin... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Why wouldn't his shouting prompt Obama to walk over there so Joe could ask his question? You are really milking this story.

No, my problem is that I keep replying to Treacher, who can't bring himself to admit he was making it up. When I made my initial post, I really never expected anyone to go through so many contortions filled with word parsing, blaming others, and changing the subject.

No, my problem is ... (Below threshold)
No, my problem is that I keep replying to Treacher, who can't bring himself to admit he was making it up.

Which part did I make up, honey? I know you're getting tired, but try to focus.

Brian's right, though, guys... (Below threshold)

Brian's right, though, guys. Let's get back on topic: Obama is a socialist, and the press is going after Joe as a way of distracting us from that. Brian? Thoughts?

Which part did I make up... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Which part did I make up, honey?
...
Obama is a socialist, and the press is going after Joe as a way of distracting us from that. Brian? Thoughts?

I gave my thoughts on all of those points throughout this thread. If you want to go rehash them, I hope you have an enjoyable Saturday night.

Tony Tourette - a "typical"... (Below threshold)
JFO:

Tony Tourette - a "typical" Palin JoeSixPacker - you folks "oughta" be proud of yourselves.

I gave my thoughts... (Below threshold)
I gave my thoughts on all of those points throughout this thread.

So what do you think of Obama's socialism? How do you feel about his publicly admitted plan to take money out of your pocket and give it to people who don't work as hard as you? (I'm presuming you're employable, for the sake of argument.)

Good? Bad? Indifferent?

This has been the funniest ... (Below threshold)

This has been the funniest Wizbang thread I have read in several years.

Joe the Plumber must be causing some insanely bad internals at the Obama campaign. The message sandwiched between what Joe asked and what Obama said is plainly clear to everyone.

The lib's response to this moment shows that they have learned nothing about debate tactics (the natural consequence of having the MSM carry your water for you). When your opponent scores a knockdown, better to just get back up, keep your mouth shut and hope for a second chance. Think not? Just ask Dan Quayle.

JFOSometimes the l... (Below threshold)

JFO

Sometimes the low hanging fruit is there for a reason. Can you see the difference or does the agit prop sound so familiar that you can't distinguish your side from the other?

Slightly different subject ... (Below threshold)
MPR:

Slightly different subject but, liberal lies from the "One". Check out the story at Hot Air and Little Green Footballs. Obama and Ayers shared an office building for three years. The MSM ignoring anything to do with Obambi's past is going to come back on them yet. Especially in light of what they went dumpster diving for on Sara.

"If you want to go rehash t... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"If you want to go rehash them, I hope you have an enjoyable Saturday night."

Heh, now Brian has a life.

Brian why are you on this... (Below threshold)
MF:

Brian why are you on this blog ?
It seems you like getting beat up or maybe your
regular blog is boring or you just like stirring the pot?

I feel bad for any Americ... (Below threshold)
MF:

I feel bad for any American asking a candidate a question and then there is a feeding frenzy to look into the individual's background. This differs the focus from the real issues. Guess that's what O camp wanted.
This is dangerous .... individuals will not want to speak up in fear of what reprisals may occur for asking questions and/or voicing one's opinions.

Ayres, just some guy in the... (Below threshold)
RicardoVerde:

Ayres, just some guy in the neighborhood...
Senate banking committee, that's my committee...
Not the Wright I knew...

I guess he can say anything and the moon-eyed fools will vote for him.

The absolutely insan... (Below threshold)
dr lava:


The absolutely insane part of this "socialism" argument is that the Bush administration, whom I believe most at Wizbang voted for not once but TWICE, has recently proposed the largest move into real socialism [nationalizing banks] in Americas history and you guys are pretending that it didn't happen.

I realize that the death of conservatism is causing extreme paranoia and mania but I would think that it would be done in private.

You guys actually DON'T have a fucking clue.


dr lava~"has recen... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

dr lava~

"has recently proposed the largest move into real socialism [nationalizing banks] in Americas history and you guys are pretending that it didn't happen."

I was never in favor of the bailout, and believe it or not, that's a demmie lolly pop. You think Obama's going to fix it? "You got hosed, Tommy".

The absolutely ins... (Below threshold)
The absolutely insane part of this "socialism" argument is that the Bush administration, whom I believe most at Wizbang voted for not once but TWICE, has recently proposed the largest move into real socialism [nationalizing banks] in Americas history and you guys are pretending that it didn't happen.

So Obama's going to reverse that?

Whether Obama traveled acro... (Below threshold)
_Mike_:

Whether Obama traveled across states to Joe the Plumber's neighborhood or Joe the Plumber walked 100 yards to Obama... or whether Joe has a plumber's license is all simply cover for what the real story here is....

Barack Obama admitted he's a socialist.
(I'm going to "spread your the wealth").

lavaWe've got more... (Below threshold)

lava

We've got more than a clue, we've got actual evidence. We simply won't agree to morons like you sitting on the jury.

Pray for a fillibuster proof majority, lava. And even that may not be enough. The fingerprints on this economic disaster are everywhere.

Treacher publicly pantsed B... (Below threshold)
MichaelC:

Treacher publicly pantsed Brian about six times and there's Brian just standing there with his naughty bits hangin' out with a dumb look on his face and a tape measure in his other hand taking imaginary measurements that he believes will somehow change the facts of this matter.

Now, Brian, if you'll just put that thing down for a minute...no, no,not the tape measure...that other little thing...and pay attention to what you've been asked over and over here, while you've been dazzling everyone with your grasp of spatial dynamics, why then maybe we could all go on to more important considerations.

What is your view of the Marxist economic view expressed by Michelle's husband *(she's about to become an international topic of conversation in her own right)when Joe the Citizen asked him a simple question?

Oh, Kee-rist, what is wrong... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Oh, Kee-rist, what is wrong with you people?

McCain wants to give people a healthcare tax credit and pay for it by taxing employer-paid health insurance expenses. He wants the government to buy up all the bad mortgages. He voted for the biggest socialist bailout in US history. He was against Bush's tax cuts before he was for them. McCain? Red-blooded capitalist.

Obama also voted for the bailout, and wants to increase the marginal tax for those earning over $250K from 36% to 39% (still less than what they were paying in the prosperous 90s). That marginal 3%? Which translates to just $121 on average for those making up to $600,000?

SOCIALIST! OBAMA=MARX!

You'll forgive the American people if they do not express shock or take seriously the right fringe calling a Democrat a socialist.

And MichaelC, I'm glad you had an enjoyable night out, but it's time to stop the drinking.

Looks like Brian has been a... (Below threshold)

Looks like Brian has been a busy little cut-and-paster! Thank goodness for Google, eh, Bri? I'd ask if you actually understand any of what you just pasted in there, but you seem pretty worn out already.

Oh, Kee-rist, what is wrong with you people?

We enjoy the way you dodge questions and change the subject. If laughing at you is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

So tell me more about how the plan Obama explained to Joe --

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success, too. My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

-- isn't socialism. Is it capitalism?

Looks like Brian has bee... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Looks like Brian has been a busy little cut-and-paster!

No, it's called paying attention. Though your assertion is funny, coming from the guy who repeatedly cites that liberal rag the NYT as the basis of his argument.

Thank goodness for Google, eh, Bri?

I suppose so, seeing as how your entire argument is based on it.

We enjoy the way you dodge questions and change the subject.

Oh? I responded to your lie about the interaction. You want to ignore that and say "forget about A, let's talk about B!" Sorry, I didn't realize there were elements of your diatribe you were willing to defend, and elements that you weren't.

I don't wanna be right.

Don't worry. Little chance of that.

Liberal rag? You wingnut! ;... (Below threshold)

Liberal rag? You wingnut! ;)

Thank goodness for Google, eh, Bri?

I suppose so, seeing as how your entire argument is based on it.

As nonsensical comebacks go, I suppose that one's not bad.

I responded to your lie about the interaction.

The NYT's lie that I quoted, you mean. Have they written you back yet?

You want to ignore that and say "forget about A, let's talk about B!" Sorry, I didn't realize there were elements of your diatribe you were willing to defend, and elements that you weren't.

Are you just pulling words out of the dictionary at random?

Anyway, back to Obama's public proclamation of socialism. Thoughts? Opinions? Non sequiturs?

"And in my parts, people... (Below threshold)
Ryan:

"And in my parts, people ask me where in the Peoples' Republic of New Jersey they can find a McCain sign. Answer: Not on anyone's lawn, that's for sure."

Dude, I live in suburban UTAH, for christ sakes. When I walk the six blocks to pick my son up from kindergarten, I see 8 Obama signs and exactly 0 McCain signs.

The Daily Show's J... (Below threshold)
James H:

The Daily Show's John Oliver put it pithily:

"They say everybody gets their 15 minutes of fame. What they don't tell you is the last 12 minutes are a rectal exam."

Brian lost the argument wit... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Brian lost the argument with this line:

There was no digging into his background until after McCain brought him up in the debate

If Obama brought him up, no negative rectal exam on Joe, but since McCain did, there you have it. Thanks Brian for clarifying.

JFO, shoo! Go away.

Oh Yeah! Old Joe the plumber closed the poll gap with THE ONE. I think because the media and Obama are going after an average citizen. So my advice: Keep it up. ww

Has anyone set up a fund-ra... (Below threshold)
twolaneflash:

Has anyone set up a fund-raiser to pay off Joe's taxes and help him buy that plumbing business? I'm in.

Brian:As pe... (Below threshold)
Larry:


Brian:

As per usual, your lack critical thinking has caused you to upchuck all over yourself.

Joe didn't get any treatment "for asking a question". Joe asked a question. Joe got an answer. Joe went home to dinner with his kid. Obama and the media went home too. Three days pass. No one takes a second look at Joe.

Ok, that got knocked down and you had a fall back position as your mind imagined whatever it took to maintain its love affair with Obama.

Why are you here arguing with those who have a different worldview, one that is fact based instead of projected fantasy?

Brian, did you ever answer my question about Page 11, what it meant to you? If you did, I never saw it although you did volunteer. Want me to post it again?

I don't want to change the ... (Below threshold)

I don't want to change the subject here, but Brian is obfuscating again with his "description" of Obama's tax plan. Either that or he doesn't know diddly-squat about it. There's a great deal more to this plan than one 3% raise on income over $250k. When you start fiddling with deductions, that $250k mark is going to be harder to avoid for a lot of small businesses. His link to what you would pay under Obama's and McCain's plans is posted by someone who does not give a direct link to how she got those figures (only to the general site where I'll be damned if I can find the very article she got them from) I have a ton of questions on the simple numbers she gave there. Is that an individual? Is it a two income couple? Is it a family? How many kids do they have? Does the mother stay home or do they have child care expenses? What refundable and non-refundable deductions are there? Did she consider the huge spike in marginal tax rates for those making $25k to $45k and how that affects those two kinds of deductions? I have even more questions that that.

Furthermore, I can see Brian will never change his tactics as he focuses myopically on the tiniest detail regardless of what's being discussed; whether Joe walked up to Obama or Obama walked up to Joe. All in the name of keeping us honest.

I can't remember him so valiantly, and over the course of a long thread, seeking to set the record straight on all the outright untrue about Joe put forward by the worst of the hacks. Rather he looks for any angle to jump on the bandwagon in reinforcing their rhetoric: He doesn't even have a license! Yup, Brian's right there to reinforce it by dragging out Ohio law - details about Joe's particular circumstances and efforts to work toward a license be damned. I mean, after all, it's McCain's fault that people went hog wild digging into this guy's life.

As he tries valiantly to point out the blatant Lies! put forward here over the intricacies of this situation, he's free to ignore that Obama said he believed that "spreading the wealth" was better for everyone. When asked his thoughts, he points to McCain's plan and unwittingly points out the one single facet of Obama's tax plan that reinforces the "spread the wealth" concept. Newsflash! "The rich" will ALWAYS pay more taxes. Obama just doesn't think it's enough and wants to take more and give it away to others. It's that simple. All we have to do is redefine "the rich".

Me? I own two condos aside from my house, but I still owe lots of money on them. My daughter lives in one for very little rent so we can keep her off the government dole because she's a single mom struggling to get by. Charlie Crist has seen to it that my property taxes are nearly doubled on those two properties as proper punishment for that. I foresaw that happening and did not vote for him. I can't wait to see what Obama's plan will do to our taxes.

Anyway, back to Ob... (Below threshold)
Anyway, back to Obama's public proclamation of socialism. Thoughts? Opinions? Non sequiturs?

Guess not.




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