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America's Last Gasp

It will be the anvil that broke the camel's back.

An ailing Ted Kennedy has been fast at work orchestrating what could be the fatal blow to the Constitutional concept of limited government. As the senator puts it, "the cause of my life" - socialized medicine.

"There is a serious process moving forward and that augurs well," said Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, a nonprofit health care advocacy group. "There really is a sea change that should not be underestimated in terms of attitude..."

Mr. Kennedy's goal, his aides say, is to introduce a universal health care bill as soon as the new Congress convenes next year and to push quickly for its passage - a much-accelerated timetable compared with the last time that a health care overhaul was on the agenda, at the start of the Clinton administration.

"Senator Kennedy has spent the last several weeks laying the groundwork for reform so that we can be ready to go in 2009," said his spokesman Anthony Coley. "This is and has been the cause of Senator Kennedy's life."

If Obama wins and the Democrats increase their majority leverage in the House and Senate, what is to stop the federal government from dismantling the best health care system in the world (while imperfect) and in its stead establishing the most massive federal bureaucracy we will have ever seen?

This, amounting to untold trillions of dollars, on top of the trillion dollar bailout passed with a snap of the fingers just weeks ago. As well, it will accompany Obama's planned $1.3 trillion in additional spending for the further expansion of government, and massive increases in tax credit checks to Americans who are already net income tax consumers rather than contributors.

The calculus applied to pay for this is massive tax rate increases to the top 5% of American earners and the (not discussed) expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts (which will further increase rates across the board). This not nearly enough, an unprecedented increase in small, medium and large business tax rates is planned that would result in layoffs, increased business failures, further business relocations to other countries with lower tax rates and a swelling of an under-the-table cash economy.

What does all of that mean? In every instance, it means lost jobs, which translates into fewer income tax contributors and an increase of tax consumers (unemployment checks, dropping of tax bracket to 'consumer' rates). The trickle up of misery compounds as they spend less, shrinking and closing businesses as a result. In every instance for businesses, it translates into less - not more - corporate tax collections.

As savings are consumed for daily living by struggling families, there will be significantly less to pass in inheritance. Of course, the death tax will be increased right along with all other taxes, yet the increased rate eats even more away from what would be passed to the families to survive, while the total receipts for a glutenous government will be even less.

Not factored into the above equation at all is the crippling effect to US industries (more jobs hemorrhaging) of signing on to the Kyoto Accord, which punishes US industries disproportionately with other nations' heavier polluting competing industries. Such will be back-doored upon our backs by Barack Obama's intent to submit the United States to the U.N. Millennium Declaration, which includes other concessions of sovereignty, such as US Military Forces' acquiescence to the jurisdiction of and submission to the International Criminal Courts and the imposition of a UN-collected and redistributed International Tax.

Where will all of this newly required trillions of dollars of additional revenues come from with closing industries and businesses and generally anemic tax receipts?

Joe Biden got it right when he said Barack Obama is about "a 3-letter word: J-O-B-S." Because it's simple math and the plans do not add up.

Perhaps neither can add. You must.

The Great Depression will have been an amusement park ride. But the park will also be closed, because too few will be able to spare the money for entertainment over meals.

The federal government's budget and conscripted responsibilities will have grown exponentially nearly overnight, while its increased taxation will net fractionally less in receipt - not more - than today.

If polls are to be believed, the American people are barely one week away from voting in the utter collapse of the American economy. Not through failings of the free markets, but rather from the unrestricted (and un-Constitutional) expansion of the Federal Government, its insatiable consumption of individual prosperity, and - most dangerously - the destruction (through systematic limitation) of individual liberty.

And we will have collectively selected our own demise.

We will not recognize what we will have condemned our children to inherit, an oppressive burden squandered from a gift once afforded us by our own fathers.


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Comments (73)

Just 1 question: Is the he... (Below threshold)
GianniD:

Just 1 question: Is the head of this family of killers being treated at Havana General, or some other local hospital, or, is he being treated at the best hospital his dirty money can buy?

Shorter SteveOh No... (Below threshold)
GB:

Shorter Steve

Oh Noez, Obama and the Democratz will kill us all!
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Every American should read ... (Below threshold)
kt:

Every American should read this post. Email it to everyone you know. This post alone could get McCain elected.

Note:I altered the... (Below threshold)
Steve Schippert:

Note:

I altered the following paragraph a few minutes after initial publishing:

"Joe Biden got it right when he said Barack Obama is about "a 3-letter word: J-O-B-S." Because it's simple math and Obama clearly cannot add."

Which now reads more clearly:

"Joe Biden got it right when he said Barack Obama is about "a 3-letter word: J-O-B-S." Because it's simple math and the plans do not add up."

"...and to push quickly for... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"...and to push quickly for its passage." Looks like we'll have to push back.

Did I hear someone say Revolution?

Why are all revolutions Com... (Below threshold)
bill-tb:

Why are all revolutions Communist.

"Why are all revolutions Co... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Why are all revolutions Communist."

Why are all your comments uninformed and ignorant?

One can only hope Teddy che... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

One can only hope Teddy checks out before he can put anything else before the Senate. But then we'll have his cohorts extolling "Let's do it for Teddy". Mary Jo was unavailable for comment.

"If polls are to be believe... (Below threshold)
retired military:

"If polls are to be believed, the American people are barely one week away from voting in the utter collapse of the American economy. "

Yeah but we will have free health care just ask Obama.

"One can only hope Teddy checks out before he can put anything else before the Senate"

Then the press will push this and we will get a "Do it for the Teddy" speech.

yes, they'll push it throug... (Below threshold)

yes, they'll push it through.

So I will make it a personal goal to drain every penny I can out of the Government run medical system!

I fully intend accelerating my retirement (stopping work at the end of next year, even though I am still 4 years from Social Security), and then getting in line for:
- "free" health care
- welfare
- food stamps
- living assistance
- unemployment
- "tax cuts" (though I will not be paying taxes anymore)

I currently pay aproximately $80,000 per year in taxes (Fed/State/Local). My personal goal will be take AT LEAST $20,000 a year OUT (and that's BEFORE Social Security).

That makes a $100,000 a year turnaround! Though it will indeed mean we live more frugally...we will be living for FREE (or as near as possible)!!

I hope as many people as possible join me. It will ALL be legal...and it WILL hurt the Obama welfare state! If enough of you join in it will bring the whole awful mess to a crashing halt that much sooner!

Who is John Galt?

The truely sad part of all ... (Below threshold)
Biggyrat:

The truely sad part of all this, is that I have a fifteen year old son. For all of his life I've been instilling in him the idea that in America his opportunities will be unlimited, and he will be able to do anything he sets his mind to. As I watch the citizens of this great nation line up in lemming like fashion, ready to race over the cliff, I feel as though I've let him down. I have worked hard all my life to leave this country better than I found it, and yet, it is my generation which may destroy it. So for all thase leftist out there who believe socialism is the cats meow, keep in mind that system has failed utterly every time it has been tried. To those conservatives out there who just can't vote for Mcain because he's not a true conservative like Reagan, remember Reagan, while conservative, was also pragmatic enough to know, a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing. But what do I know, after all, you sure taught all those corrupt Republicans a lesson in 2006 didn't you, how's that working out so far?

If Kennedy's socialized hea... (Below threshold)
Scrapiron:

If Kennedy's socialized health care program had been in operation, and applied equally, he would be dead. Fact is the other half of the idiot Kennedy family would be dead. Socialized medicine will not pay for dozens of Drug/alchol dry outs in the same family.

the American people will VE... (Below threshold)

the American people will VERY SOON see health care rationing based on brutal actuarial statistics.

My boss' mother was effectively killed by the British medical "system". She had a stroke, and after a few short weeks was ejected from the hospital because at her age the cost of healing her out-weighed her benefit to society. She was 72. They literally quoted actuarial tables to him when they made their decision.

It's coming, folks...and it's gonna SUCK!

They can pass a law in the ... (Below threshold)
Clint:

They can pass a law in the first hour of the Session, if they like. (And even that could be hard -- I still hold out hope of a filibuster...)

Actually creating such a monstrosity? That would take years.

We'll have chances to shut it down --- start with federal lawsuits to slow things down, then make it THE issue of the 2010 election.

The only reason they'd try to ram such a plan through so fast: it's not remotely popular. And that still matters.

Nonetheless, I think we're in for some really, really tough times, even if McCain wins, with an increasingly partisan Democratic Party likely increasing both its strength in Congress and its radicalism. If Obama's elected...

I tend to smile when I hear... (Below threshold)
RScott:

I tend to smile when I hear "Free Health Care". So, the doctors no longer get paid?

Oh, they don't mean free. They just want someone else to pay for their care. Why don't they just say what they mean?

Who is John Galt?</p... (Below threshold)
Clay:

Who is John Galt?

Indeed. However, a closer examination of the principles of Dagny's beau may be in order. Standing in line for the government's dole will require a forfeit of what little freedom may be left. You may consider refining the join 'em plan. But, it's up to you.

It's coming, folks...and it's gonna SUCK!

My wife is a recovering Canadian who watched her grandfather and uncle die of cancer while waiting for appointments. My mother-in-law discovered a lump in her breast in January and finally got her biopsy in May. Fortunately, the growth was benign, a victory for her and the Canadian health care system...sorta.

The people who will do okay... (Below threshold)

The people who will do okay are conservatives. Men and women who aren't afraid of hard work and getting dirty. During the Depression, people had gardens and they took on whatever work they could to survive. Black market trading was everywhere.

Liberals depend on the government, like dogs waiting for their food bowls to be filled. And I mean not to disparage dogs, for they are friendly and have no opposable thumbs.

Just consider Katrina, and who suffered most; the welfare poor, too dumb and dependent to fend for themselves.

We'll be okay. I just hope Rush gets a big barge and hosts a bunch of internet sites as well as his radio show when he moves off the coast of Florida.

TRIBUTE TO OBAMA VIDEO A MU... (Below threshold)

TRIBUTE TO OBAMA VIDEO A MUST SEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYt0VhVmlq4

If Obama wins and ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
If Obama wins and the Democrats increase their majority leverage in the House and Senate, what is to stop the federal government from dismantling the best health care system in the world (while imperfect) and in its stead establishing the most massive federal bureaucracy we will have ever seen?

The answer is Obama. As head of the party and president of the nation, it's Obama's plan that will be put forth, not Kennedy's. Admittedly, the flaw in my argument is that I ascribe some level of integrity to Obama in that the plan he campaigned on is the plan he will fight for.

This, amounting to untold trillions of dollars, on top of the trillion dollar bailout passed with a snap of the fingers just weeks ago. As well, it will accompany Obama's planned $1.3 trillion in additional spending for the further expansion of government, and massive increases in tax credit checks to Americans who are already net income tax consumers rather than contributors.

They have a plan to pay for it. They are going to nationalize private retirement savings because the financial crisis demonstrates that people can't be trusted with their own retirement savings. Of course they'll put it all in one pool and pay it out on a needs basis. Everyone who's been getting by on less in order to put more into their 401k will be in the same boat with those who never saved a dime. Turns out they were the smart one.

Remember, first they came f... (Below threshold)
Hestrold:

Remember, first they came for your boss' money, then they came for YOURS!

A pure socialized system wi... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

A pure socialized system will never happen in the United States. Rather it will be more like education, or more appropriately like Australia's health care system, where many doctors run both a public practice and a private one for those who can afford it. I realize it's anecdotal, but a Tanzanian doctor I met believed it was the world's best system. For whatever that's worth.

Who will pay for it? The g... (Below threshold)
JLawson:

Who will pay for it? The government will - of course. Hasn't the last month or so proven to all those wise people in Washington that money is not something that's scarce or needs to be carefully allotted, that it does indeed grow on trees? That all you've got to do is proclaim a need and you get chunks of dough in the trillion dollar range magically appearing out of nowhere?

We're all going to be fine - we'll have a medical system with the compassion of the IRS and the efficiency of the Post Office - or should it be the other way around?

If Obama wins ?No ... (Below threshold)
GOP Delenda Est:

If Obama wins ?

No ifs, ands or buts about it. It's over. The fat Republican lady already sang - off key.

If Obama wins ?No ... (Below threshold)
GOP Delenda Est:

If Obama wins ?

No ifs, ands or buts about it. It's over. The fat Republican lady already sang - off key.

And single payer universal health care isn't socialized medicine. Honestly, it's America. Love it or leave it. It's a free country, you can leave any time and good riddance.

Who is John Galt?H... (Below threshold)
GOP Delenda Est:

Who is John Galt?

He's a fictional jackass in a third rate romance novel.


Speaking ff Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, Dorothy Parker said: "This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force."

Liberalism is a mental diso... (Below threshold)
DoninFla:

Liberalism is a mental disorder!!

GOP Delenda Est:As... (Below threshold)
goddessoftheclassroom:

GOP Delenda Est:

As much as I adore the wit of Miss Parker, she also said of Katharine Hepburn that her talent ran the gamut from "A to B." Miss Hepburn went on to win more Best Actress Oscars than anyone else.

A pure socialized system... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

A pure socialized system will never happen in the United States. Rather it will be more like education, or more appropriately like Australia's health care system, where many doctors run both a public practice and a private one for those who can afford it.

But, that's just not fair. Why should the rich get better health care than everyone else? Half-measures just will not do. If we're gonna do it, let's really do it. Free health care for all; it's a Human Right!

I eagerly await our Press Corps exposing just who gets preferential treatment and who has to stand in line. That's when it will get 'interesting'.

where many doctors run b... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

where many doctors run both a public practice and a private one for those who can afford it.

Seriously, how is this better than what we have now?

America now: the poor get gov't-welfare care, the middle class and rich get private care.
Socialized America: the poor and middle class get gov't-welfare care, the rich get private care.

How is this better?

"Liberalism is a mental dis... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Liberalism is a mental disorder!!"

Classic liberalism used to be a good thing. Then a bunch of marxists got a hold of it, thinking the corruption in the system could be "cured" with anarchy and socialism.

Too bad they don't use aeso... (Below threshold)
glenn:

Too bad they don't use aesops fables in school any more. Remember the goose that laid the golden eggs and what happened to her?

glenn~"Remember th... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

glenn~

"Remember the goose that laid the golden eggs and what happened to her?"

The story has nothing to do with the post. However, I'm sure if the goose were human, and shrewd enough, that couple would have been bought and paid for. Then the government would take and "spread their wealth".

The actual moral of the story?

"Those who want too much lose everything"

glenn~Another thou... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

glenn~

Another thought. Why would you suggest killing anything (or anyone) as a comment?

Here's the real horror........ (Below threshold)
Shark:

Here's the real horror.....even if the Dems ruin everything so badly that the GOP somehow recaptures everything in just 4 years (they'll need at least 6 or 8 I think) - once this boondoggle is in place, it will be well-neigh impossible to dismantle.

America is warned

I eagerly await our Press C... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

I eagerly await our Press Corps exposing just who gets preferential treatment and who has to stand in line. That's when it will get 'interesting'.

Never gonna happen.

The press has taught us that it is really REX LEX as long as thier is a D there. Once workers Paradise comes of course we need to provide better health care to our LEADERS they need to take care of US.

So what can we do?

Our only hope is for good men and women to stand against the tide and fight. Though they called us names we stopped the immigration reform bill. We shall show the same effort against Obama and Health Care reform.
Their deeds cannot stand the light.
So lets get out their and vote,call write and email. Our founders risked the noose to secure freedom, our warfighters have given there lives to preserve it from our enamies, we can take petty name calling and cramped fingers in order to enusre it for our prosperity

Hopefully President John Mc... (Below threshold)
Brian Kaiser:

Hopefully President John Mcain and V.P.Sarah Palin will have something to say about all that!

Go McCain-Palin!!!!!!!!!!

I call bullshit.... (Below threshold)
irongrampa:


I call bullshit.

America has shown the knack for having the right person for the right time, in any given situation. Even a cursory look back through our history will bear this out. The stumbles ( Carter) simply point out the correct path to take.

I can see no reason for this election to defy that tradition.

McCain will prevail.

Seriously, how is this b... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

Seriously, how is this better than what we have now?

Amount of uninsured Australians = 0.

Amount of uninsured Americans = 50 million or so.

"Liberalism is a mental disorder!!"

I love that this comment is about +5 when the reasoned, intelligent comments of JFO, Brian and Hyperbolist are always in the negative. Ideology first, eh?

Classic liberalism used to be a good thing. Then a bunch of marxists got a hold of it, thinking the corruption in the system could be "cured" with anarchy and socialism.

Ladies and gentlemen, your colossal strawman for the day. But it's early; I'm sure we'll have plenty of chances to top it.

Parthenon:JFO and ... (Below threshold)
Larry:

Parthenon:

JFO and Brian are bomb throwers. You and hyper sometimes come out with something debatable.

Thomas Sowell was the one who finally wrote about the infatuation with Obama. And the nice thing about an infatuation is that it.just.dies.out, sooner or later.

We have become so partisan in this country, that whoever wins is going to have an internal war on their hands, which Joe Biden, bless his little hair plugged head, accurately said in so many, many words.

And we owe it all to our education system where we are no longer taught to think critically.

Steve:Keep up the ... (Below threshold)
Larry:

Steve:

Keep up the good work. It is guys like you and DJ and all of the others on here who keep hammering away at the facts instead of the rhetoric.

I gotta go do family for the next couple of weeks plus do some calling for McCain. I leave with the following:

Our country is in a hellofa mess when we must tax our children to get the revenues we think we need. We are systematically robbing our most precious asset, our kids. The purpose seems to be to fund failed social programs that serve some in true need and others to buy votes to maintain a power base for the professionals.

I would encourage everyone ... (Below threshold)
Deke:

I would encourage everyone to study the fall of the Roman Republic and it's almost scary similarities to our current state of affairs.

The rise of an entrenched politcal class, a dilution in the pride of being "Roman", a consistent demand from the mob (populace of free Romans) to be fed and taken care of with free bread simply b/c it was their "right" as Romans, the use of the circus to entertain and focus any dissent, and finally the use of the Roman police forces to bruttaly quell any opposition.

Do I think any group will shoot those that disagree, probably not, BUT is there much difference than using the mass media and other modern methods of control to hammer on and demonize anyone who doesn't follow the accepted politically correct mindset? Palin is a prime example, whether on this board or in any media outlet, her deomization is never based on policy disagreement but it seems to always be personal and vicious in an attempt to label and trivialize her, totally ignoring the vast popularity she and her policies enjoy in her home state.

The Roman middle class, retired soldiers, merchants and such were quite comfortable and considered the problems those for the underclass and remained uninvolved it wasn't long before the have's came for them with the support of the mob, simply b/c it wasn't "fair" they should have "more" while so many un-motivated Romans had to do with less. The Republic soon became seperated into haves, the entrenched polical class, Ceasars and the beuracracy and have nots, the rest of Rome and when the barbarians came knocking it was impossible to put an army together motivated and caring enough to stop it, people no longer felt pride in being Roman or felt they had a "common" stake in the system.

The Republic took a couple of centuries to unravel. We've been the worlds strongest country since the end of WWII, and in today's modern hyper-informational age does anyone think things don't move quicker?

Parthenon~"Ladies ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Parthenon~

"Ladies and gentlemen, your colossal strawman for the day. But it's early; I'm sure we'll have plenty of chances to top it."

If not for the fact that there are still some real liberals that do exist and would have nothing to do with these anarchists and socialists. Look it up, Parth, and you will see the difference between classical and socialist liberals. I wouldn't steer you wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

I recently took a class in ... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

I recently took a class in Lockian Liberalism, LM. I won't disagree that there are some elements of Marxism in modern 'left-wing' ideology. I felt your comment suggested that mainstream liberalism still has more in common with Karl Marx than John Locke. That would have been true in the sixties, and possibly the 1930s, but not today.

To argue that modern liberals aren't capitalists says more about the one positing the argument than it does about liberals. Part of the problem with these terms is that they're all relative; if you're a committed absolute libertarian, I'm sure Barack Obama looks like a Marxist. It just depends on from how far away down the spectrum one is looking.

Objectively though, Sen. Obama, I, and the rest of the mainstream liberals are not arguing anywhere near the ideology of Karl Marx. But if you're looking from five miles down free market road, I can see how it'd be hard to see the difference - everything blends together at that distance.

BTW, I voted you a point for bringing in Locke. What an antidote to Joe the Plumber posts.

Hard to discuss political p... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Hard to discuss political philosophy on here, Parthenon, unless unless Clay or kim (anybody remember that guy? he was hella smart) show up. Mention Mill, Dewey, Rawls or Nozick and the conversation pretty much ends.

Locke had a lot of crazy ideas (check out his thoughts on personal responsibility as it relates to the continuity of self via memory), but his politics are at least defensible. Unfortunately it fails to address intuitions of justice, which a Kantian foundation succeeds at (while maintaining the Lockean respect for the individual and his/her property--albeit in a secondary prioritization).

LaMedusa, you make the complaint that contemporary liberalism is infested with anarchism and socialism. You appear either unaware of, or uninterested in, the fact that anarchism and socialism are diametrically opposed to one another--that anarchism is the utopian version of libertarian political philosophy, and that any commingling of anarchism and, say, communism likely has to do with their mutual loathing of the capitalist military industrial complex (or however they're branding it these days). I suppose you might be conflating anarchists and communists with liberals, and yes, they do attend some of the same rallies and punk rock concerts, but they aren't the same.

I'll have to agree with hyp... (Below threshold)

I'll have to agree with hyper on the point of contemporary liberalism. There is no anarchist component but rather the antithesis of anarchism.

Contemporary liberalism is highly structured, well organized and thoroughly dogmatic, attributes that are essential to the success of a socialist scheme.

"To argue that modern liber... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"To argue that modern liberals aren't capitalists says more about the one positing the argument than it does about liberals."

Never suggested it. Liberals, too, are a product of their environment and where they live. "The Hollywood" liberal, as an example, is not at all structured and oftentimes completely ignorant of their influences.

Wherever there is socialism or marxism, it's going to rub off on the locals, depending on whom they grow up with in the neighborhood. "Growing up" can also include early adult years. To say that Obama is not carrying his marxist influences with him to present day, is denial of the people he is acquainted with and whom also support him.

Classroom education only gives you definitions and timelines, and is often very biased depending on the instructor. This is not necessarily a bad thing if you can identify the bias, but is only real life's experiences that will teach you the way people view their communities and where the political weight is.

And when I say "Hollywood l... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

And when I say "Hollywood liberal", that doesn't include all of them, either. Some are actually home-loving and family minded with a good work ethic.

"Best healthcare system in ... (Below threshold)
j:

"Best healthcare system in the world"? When I read things like that it's easy to understand why we're in such a mess.

Glenn Beck was yelling the other day that "What if they try to nationalize oil like that evil Hugo Chavez?". Yeah. What if. Gas is 12 cents a gallon there moron. There is no Exxon making more money than any corporation in history. Pure evil that these people are forced to pay merely 12 cents a gallon and there is no big oil giant to explain why it just has to be 4 dollars a gallon.

Same with health care. JFK tried to get universal healthcare in 1961. The AMA and insurance companies fought against him and cried "Communist". Wonder why?

None of my Canadian friends think the healthcare in the USA is better. In fact, they call it a rip-off. Wonder why? Well.... because it is.

The American healthcare system can be summed up in two words - organized crime.

LaMedusa, you have no idea ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

LaMedusa, you have no idea what you're talking about. A functioning marketplace of ideas, services, and material goods is intrinsic to liberalism. It's not antithetical to capitalism in the slightest, and the liberal necessity of a market is not a product of liberalism having been formed in pre-liberal capitalist society. Adam Smith was one of the greatest liberal thinkers to have lived; see also John Dewey and John Rawls.

Capitalist societies that are not liberal include Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iran, and (I would argue) China. Those are all horrible places, but you can go live there if you have such a problem with liberalism and everything it has given you.

Sorry, Hugh, I should have ... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Sorry, Hugh, I should have replied to you directly: liberalism is dogmatic only in its insistence that society remain in a state of "reflexive equilibrium", to borrow a useful term from Rawls. It is dogmatically opposed to fascism, communism, and other authoritarian models; and it is dogmatically opposed to the incoherent slapstick lunacy of anarchism.

The best attempt at a defense of anarchist principles would be Nozick's Anarcy, State, and Utopia. If you believe that property rights are the rights from which all others extend (a la Locke), and if you believe that smaller government is necessarily better government, that is the book for you. It's very good but was demolished by Rawlsian neo-Kantianism, as Nozick knew it would be.

j, as a Canadian, I'm embar... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

j, as a Canadian, I'm embarrassed with the state of our healthcare system. It is underfunded by a Conservative government that seeks to undermine its efficacy in order to turn the populace against what was once our greatest source of pride--socialized medicine.

The Romanow Report detailed how much more money was required to return the system to a respectable level of functionality, but was of course ignored by the Conservatives who instead gave money to corporations who have since closed manufacturing operations en masse despite all the government welfare they slurped up. I've been saying "Told ya so" for five years to the idiots who support that party.

And yet our system is not as bad as the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs of the world would have you believe. It took me an hour to find a doctor in Toronto when I moved here last year, and like most people with a decent job, I don't pay for prescriptions, eye wear, etc. Could be worse, but it should be better.

The American system is not even close to being the best in the world. Japan, Korea, and Scandinavian countries offer better service, for free. When I lived in Korea I paid $3 to see any English-speaking specialist without a referral and never waited longer than a month. $2 for prescriptions to be dispensed. Anyone who thinks America's system is better than that needs to put down the Kool-Aid.

LaMedusa, you have... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
LaMedusa, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Shut and and stop pretending you know what I'm talking about.

Those are all horrible places, but you can go live there if you have such a problem with liberalism and everything it has given you.

Did I say that I had a problem with liberalism? Those places are "horrible" just because they are, ruled by oppressive leaders that adhere "the religion of peace". Who gives a shit if they are capitalist? Again, shut up and stop trying to "pick a fight" by creating an argument that isn't there. Don't blame me if you don't understand my comment. Jesus, you wear me out with your ignorance.

None of my Canadia... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
None of my Canadian friends think the healthcare in the USA is better. In fact, they call it a rip-off. Wonder why? Well.... because it is.

Those must be the same Canadian friends that come over the border to the U.S. to get healthcare that they would have to wait months for, or wouldn't receive at all.

The American healthcare system can be summed up in two words - organized crime.

There is nothing wrong with the American Healthcare system. It needs to be tweaked a little with more of a medicare supplement, but organized crime is it's own entity. Crime of greed through embezzlement, along with "doctored" source codes so the physician can get more money out of the deal. That's where the problem is.

Oh right, suddenly you have... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Oh right, suddenly you have no problem with liberalism.

China isn't an Islamic state, by the way.

Your healthcare system is fucked. It doesn't need to be "tweaked". It costs more than any other system in the world including socialized ones that should be your envy like the Japanese and Korean models. Read up on them.

Hey Hyper:What BS ... (Below threshold)
Thomas Jackson:

Hey Hyper:

What BS are you talking about? Japan and Korean suystems as models of healthcare? Are you talking about corporate healthcaRE OR THE GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS? tHE GOVERNMENT ONES THAT TILL YOU TO WAIT IN THE CORNER AND DIE?

nO YOU CAN'T MEAN THOSE DO YOU? Let's adopt the Scandinavian or British systems, where if you're 50 they tell you to go in the corner and die. Yes I love them. Anyone been to Sweden lately? High crime, cities that the Swedes can't walk in because of Africians and Muslims. A way of life that involves cheating the government as a matter of course and a rampant black market.

Sounds like Barney Frank or Snobama's life style.

Yes let's adopt foreign healthcare systems. We need to kill off all those undesirables who aren't healthy.

Thomas Jackson, what do you... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

Thomas Jackson, what do you know about the Japanese system of socialized medicine? I'm willing to bet that you know nothing about it. It's better than your system, in terms of quality of care and access to services and products. Ditto for the Korean system.

What's the infant mortality rate in Japan vs. the United States? Does it not bother you that babies are more likely to die in your country than in Cuba, with its drastic shortage of medicine?

You criticize "socialism" while reaping its rewards on a daily basis. You should probably read more and listen to less talk radio because you haven't got the slightest idea what you're talking about and yet you're likely going to vote. Frightening.

The cost of healthcare is h... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

The cost of healthcare is high in the USA. That is true however when others confiscate your work and give it away for free or half price well that is the reason for a high price. When many others take the R&D or drugs and say we will set the price in certain markets other markets have to pay that price.
No matter what anyone says goods and service have a cost. That cost must be paid by someone at sometime. Government control of very large systems inevitably results in rationing.
When that occurs priorities are often set to determine who gets the best care.
This is a fact of life with current government health care. The VA system has many issues but President and high ranking officers that need the system do not experience those problems.
The US has not gotten the VA system correct and it been running it for almost 100 years and the $ of the population it takes care of is small. The thought that they could expand any government program to cover 300M people is laughable.
Cost controls we be implemented and ultimately care will suffer.
We have a number of safety nets in place already. Why not look at those programs skim the fraud waste and abuse off.
Next fix the VA system
Then if there is true need to address targeted care of individual in dire need then look at that.
Prove the government can effectively and efficiently run their existing healthcare system s.
Then identify issue with the current system and methods to fix them.
50 or 25 Million are un insured what does that mean do we have 25 million sick that cannot get medical attention. If they are sick there no hospitals that will take them in? No public health clinics not teaching hospitals? If some seeks care and needs it doe they get it?
Is the issue long term care?
Is the issue the amount of doctors and nurses that are needed in the system?

Oh right, suddenly... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Oh right, suddenly you have no problem with liberalism.

You implied, yourself, that you hated mediocrity. Stop pretending your healthcare system is better, because it never will be. American healthcare has been corrupted with organized crime, which is not to be mistaken for a pretty well thought out system that has worked for a quite awhile.

If you are going to say something that stupid like the above quote, and lump everything I say together, then I am done talking to you. Especially when you knew full well what I meant.

hcddbz~"Prove the go... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

hcddbz~
"Prove the government can effectively and efficiently run their existing healthcare systems."

Not going to happen. The corruption and greed are the already in the government. The same people won't run an "honest" cost-effective system.

Does it not bother... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Does it not bother you that babies are more likely to die in your country than in Cuba, with its drastic shortage of medicine?

Not as much as it bothers me that the poverty and oppressive government in Cuba sucks so bad, that citizens there are trying anything they can to get over here to escape. Hyper, your tunnel vision is disturbing. Okay, now I am done talking to you.

Japan, Korea, and Scandi... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Japan, Korea, and Scandinavian countries offer better service, for free.

What a moronic statement.
Wow, free..really? No taxpayer money is used for healthcare there, really?

Do you morons think if taxpayer money is used to build a bridge, then it's 'free'?

Mr. Jackson, how about a cr... (Below threshold)
Parthenon:

Mr. Jackson, how about a credible cite for all those wild assertions?

LaMedusaNot going to... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

LaMedusa
Not going to happen. The corruption and greed are the already in the government. The same people won't run an "honest" cost-effective system.

Agreed
This is precisely why any further expansion of government healthcare, must be checked.

Hyper
It's better than your system, in terms of quality of care and access to services and products. Ditto for the Korean system.

Having lived in Japan for 4 years Government run Japanese healthcare has its own issues esp with qaulty of care and when and where you get it.

Not to mention that the Japanese people do not seem to think they live in a Utopia being ranked 9th in the world for suicides. The sucky US is ranked 43rd.

I have always wondered about infant mortality rate as an indicator of good health care. If you have larger and more diverse population would infant mortality rate increase. Japan is 98% Japanese and has very low immigration. The USA has more ethnic mix and high degree of immigration. If you look at the EU total: 6.38 deaths/1,000 live births VS USA total: 6.3 deaths/1,000 live births. We are looking at 330M vs 464M people so I think that more comparable sampling of people.
Why not use life expectancy at birth as the indicator as that would represent the health care systems affect on person throughout their life span. This one shows most industrial nations are very close 76-83 years.


What's the infant mortal... (Below threshold)
Clay:

What's the infant mortality rate in Japan vs. the United States?

Uh...HB,
We've been through the infant mortality argument before and it's not as black & white as you are attempting to portray. Remember?

Parthenon~Couldn't... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Parthenon~

Couldn't find any recent links, but here is a 2005 article with a sampling of those "wild" allegations.

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html

Not too sure about the way healthcare is run. Here is a publication that is also a few years old re: Northern and Southern europeans' health:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7499/1044-b

JDid I get the nam... (Below threshold)
Larry:

J

Did I get the name right?

Anyway, you said:

Glenn Beck was yelling the other day that "What if they try to nationalize oil like that evil Hugo Chavez?". Yeah. What if. Gas is 12 cents a gallon there moron. There is no Exxon making more money than any corporation in history. Pure evil that these people are forced to pay merely 12 cents a gallon and there is no big oil giant to explain why it just has to be 4 dollars a gallon.

That has to be the single most ignorant post I have seen on this blog in the past month. It details a level of ignorance that is so deep, it boggles the mind.

1. Exxon is now the 16th largest oil company in the world. State owned oil companies are much larger. Exxon has zero impact on the price of oil compared to State Oil companies and macro economic forces such as the oil bubble.

2. The large State owned oil companies who do NOT elect to hire outside (read capitalist) expertise, have a declining oil production and an aging oil infrastructure. They prefer to subsidize oil at 12 cents a gallon instead of reinvesting in the business.

3. 12 cents is subsidized. Venezuela produces a heavy crude that can only be refined in a few places around the world, like Louisiana. Chavez is buying votes, just like our own politicians.

4. Exxon was not part of the speculative oil bubble. Such diverse investors as various Pension Funds, British Petroleum, Goldman Sachs, hedge funds here and elsewhere, including individual investors, drove up the price of oil based on bogus consumption numbers and hype.

At the time when oil was $4.00 a gallon, Iran had several dozen FULL large tankers sitting around with no place to go.

There is more, much more. The above is an example of fact based comment. The next time you call someone a moron, be careful it doesn't crawl up your ass and die. I won't call you a moron, I will call you an ignoramous. Tell me you think ethanol is a good idea so I KNOW you are TOTAL ignoramous. Stupid is forever, ignorance can be cured. Go take your medicine like a good little boy.

The health care thing is an... (Below threshold)
godblessAmerica:

The health care thing is an interesting distraction.

Truth is that the Republicans have sold us out... big time. After 8 years of Republican out-of-control spending, we are all hearing the words "great depression" way too often.

Bob Barr (former Republican Congressman and current Presidential candidate for the Libertarian party) has it right...

Every day that the occupation in Iraq continues without a withdrawal plan is a day that more American blood and treasure (some $400 million a day) is needlessly wasted.

True conservatives must abandon the Republican party after it has so completely abandoned our values.

Obama is lying about the wa... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Obama is lying about the war to get elected.

Bill Clinton on Obama: Big Fairy Tale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

The health care "t... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
The health care "thing" is an interesting distraction.

This "thing" you call a "distraction", is a very real concern for people needing affordable healthcare to better their lives. You may not be affected by the costs, but many others are.

You would best just focus on the narrow-minded grudge you have against Republicans.

*you would be better off fo... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

*you would be better off focusing on...

"Does it not bother you ... (Below threshold)

"Does it not bother you that babies are more likely to die in your country than in Cuba, with its drastic shortage of medicine?"

Ignorance is bliss. Tell me, Hyper, what are the standards by which the Cuban government reports its infant mortality rate?

<a href="http://en.wikipedi... (Below threshold)
hyperbolist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

Ignore Cuba is you will, Oyster, but do take notice that every country that is better than the United States on that measure has some sort of socialized medicine. EVERY COUNTRY. Except maybe Slovenia, I don't know much about them.

Clay, I do recall that conversation, it was enlightening. It's not the only measure I take into account when evaluating the efficacy of a health care system; as hcddbz mentioned, overall life expectancy from birth might be a better indicator. The United Nations and World Health Organization both have algorithms for ranking countries' overall well-being/quality of life. The United States is consistently ranked lower than most European countries, Canada, Japan, and South Korea.

Anyone defending the American health care model has to admit that the system is great for people who can afford good coverage, but less so for people who can't. It's ridiculously expensive and inefficient.

LaMedusa, our system in Canada was better than yours for a long time and in some respects it is still better. With an injection of $5billion/year in additional funds it would once again be superior to the American system. I vote accordingly.

I asked a simple question, ... (Below threshold)

I asked a simple question, hyper. And since you refused to answer, instead citing statistics for "every other country" besides the US, how about explaining the standards by which each of them report infant mortality?

As I said, ignorance is bliss.




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