Tomorrow... If you make less than $200,000... over your life time. You get a tax cut.

The next adjustment of his promise will be that those making less than 200,000 Pesos will get a tax cut.

The Creep is creeping lower

It's probably only a rhetorical flourish

All,

Dick Morris made a good point tonight on Hannity and Colmes. Mac is running attacks ads with Joe the plumber over this past weekend and we have seen obambi's numbers slip. He pointed out that this was the result of the saturation level that had the average viewer seeing the ad at least 10 times. He said this was hitting obambi with a hard left, now it is time to hit him with a hard right using the Reverend Wright issue.

A 527 called the National Republican Trust has an ad they are readying for the swing states. I just donated $100 and I want to encourage everyone else to do the same. Rush was on Greta afterwards and seemed to think that it would really help. Since Mac won't do it himself lets help drag him over the finish line. I am posting this on multiple thread - sorry for the redundancy but I don't want the lil' messiah to win.

Here is the website: http://nationalrepublicantrust.com/

One week people!

The definition of rich is shifting downward already.

Well, yeah. Have you been paying attention to the stock market? Pretty soon McCain will have to lower his definition of rich to those making over $4.5 million.

I think the original $250,000 measure of wealthy was technically for a small business owner. This appears a semantical measure of non-owner salary.

How is Barack (ie: Government) going to ensure the availability of low-cost loans?

Didn't we make note that Fannie Mae / Freddy Mac gov interest in finance was a bad experiment?

Barack's tax plan reminds me of this joke/quote normally attributed to Winston Churchill...

Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?
Socialite: My goodness, Mr. Churchill... Well, I suppose... we would have to discuss terms, of course...
Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Socialite: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!
Churchill: Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.

250K, 200K, 150K, 100K 50K. bets on when the next fall happens?

Class warfare always leads to Pyrrhic Victory . When you keep lobbing nukes at one side the nuclear waste starts to spread. Overtime there no victory just shared misery

Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built.
Abraham Lincoln.

like drilling a well for water.

You drill until you hit water and stop...then, when the water-table drops, you drill a little deeper, and so on.

since those BELOW the wealthy "water-line" are VERY thirsty the "water-table" is gonna keep on dropping and Obama's gonna have to drill deeper and deeper.

It took the Soviets 70 years to completely drain THEIR well.

His tax plan has not changed. It was (and is) 200,000 for individuals filing alone; for couples filing joint tax returns the number is 250,000. No mystery switch here.

Sorry ORyan - you are wrong. Obama says that FAMILIES making less than $200,000 a year will get a tax cut under his plan - not individuals making $200,000 a year. He is defining his notion of rich downward as we all have suspected would be the case. And I doubt he is finished.

You're lying.

The numbers haven't changed since the campaign began.

A tax cut for 95% of _Americans_? Really?

~40% of Americans do not pay _any_ taxes... How can you cut taxes on people paying $0? You can't, but you can send them a check! Yay! A "tax-cut"!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910303529751345.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Fred, I think I'd call it "Wellfare".

That old crook LBJ's doing a tap dance right now, when he takes a break from shoveling coal in hades.

Make that "Welfare"

So Obama thinks "rich" is making over $200,000 a year. John McCain said "rich" is making over $5 million a year. Who's out of touch and who's going to lose 1984 style? Senator John McCain.

When the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire, that $200,000 or whatever limit as to who really received a cut will be much much lower.

I don't really intend to defend Obama, because I don't believe him for a minute when he promises only the 250k tax bracket will get a tax increase, but I think his proposal is for tax cuts for the 200k and less group, taxes to remain the same between 200 and 250 and that increase on the rich so he can "spread the wealth around" for those at 250 and higher.

I also think the "family" application is correct. I think individuals probably won't see too many tax cuts.

To Brian and Ryan :

I have listened to this nonsense long enough. Yes, McCain did say that people who make 5 million are rich. Do you disagree? He has never said that people who make less than that are not rich. I'm sure he would agree that any millionaire should be considered among the upper-income group.

Dems like Obama have always used the 'rich vs poor' game, and have always redefined what the term 'rich' is, depending on their audience.

Gee, big shocker. I'm sure that current figure will contine to be reduced in the days ahead. I did laugh out loud when Obama said we have to end the "mindless partisanship" and "the divisiveness." Obama's way to do that is to silence those who don't agree with him. That's certainly not what I had in mind when I was thinking of our country ending partisanship and divisiveness.

What about cancelling "Bush" tax cuts. What will that do to the average paycheck? Is that the same as a tax increase?

Let me see, less money in my paycheck. Hmmmm, guess that means the government gets more of my money. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that is a tax increase.

And what about trickle down taxes?

So those making over some number, say $250K, are just going to roll over and pay it? Or are they going to attempt to increase their prices so their net income stays the same?

Yea, lets raise taxes on corporations and drive more of them offshore. Now that idea really rings the bell.

The Dems have raised the race card, the poor card, the elderly card, the Hispanic card, and the rich card to the point where you gotta wonder if those cards are marked. And are they playing with a full deck?

If you want to know what is going on in this world, just follow the money; why are most well off Libs who have protected jobs all for the Dem plans? Why do so many rich people like Soros and Buffett send their money to the Dems? Why are so many rich, affluent areas electing Dems to Congresss?

So now tell me again how much more taxes rich Liberals are going to pay.

The trolls' brains seem to be leaking. They're now proudly trumpeting the fact that their socialist sugar daddy thinks they're rich if they make $200k a year while McCain 'thinks' you need to make $5M to be rich. Think about it.

Also, go write on the underside of your bridge 100 times - "McCain was joking when he said that as he referred to how much Obama had made the previous year and the audience laughed. Obama is not joking when he says he plans to raise taxes on your employer."

His words shifting like the winds again...

No, you nitwits.

If a couple earns more than $250K/yr or an individual earns $200K or more.

He said this in debates 2 & 3.

http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/
Fill this out but 500K in and you will see that the orginal plan was fro 250K.
They not adjusted it as of yet.

So those making over some number, say $250K, are just going to roll over and pay it? Or are they going to attempt to increase their prices so their net income stays the same?

When the cost of fuel goes up, most people realize that it means the cost of everything they purchase is going to go up. Why ? Because it cost the business from which they're purchasing it more. If the price of beef goes up, the price you pay for a burger goes up. When the expense of operating the business increases, some part of the expense is going to get passed on to the consumer.

Taxes are simply another business expense... some part of which is passed on to the consumer.

There's a trade off made between increase in price and number of units sold. Increase the price per unit and you're going to sell fewer units. If you sell fewer units, you'll need fewer employees. In short, increases taxes raises the price (cost) per unit... which translates into fewer employees needed.

The bottom line... raising taxes on the people that Obama is talking about will result in higher prices for goods and lower employment. It will affect everyone regardless of your level of income.

Did everybody forget about the Clinton years? Obama's tax plan won't put America over the edge, its going to recenter the nation back to where it was 8 years ago.

Why wasn't anyone angry about the stimulus package?

In one bill America proudly showed its socialist colors. The rich weren't simply getting as much as the poor. Of course unless you're really rich which you then got the biggest break of all.

That and the last straw that broke down Fannie and Freddie letting them buy the worst of the bad loans.

Also I assume the discussion about whether Obama was clear on 250k for families and 200k for individuals was over.

Biden just said it was now $150,000.

Now that people have gotten up an arms, everyone in the Obama campaign is scrambling to cover another 'rhetorical flourish' by saying "He didn't mean to say that."

Obamese to English:

I'll take more money from the fraction of Americans who pay taxes now and spread their wealth to those who barely pay any taxes under the current system & give welfare checks to those 40% of Americans who currently don't pay any taxes.

I'll implement a socialist health care system, which will result in lower quality health care. I will fine businesses and families -- how much I haven't decided -- if they don't provide the kind of health care I determine they should provide to their employees and children. I don't care if you're a small business. I don't care if you're making less than $50 and have three kids, you better provide the kind of health care for everyone that I say you must.

We're spending $10 Billion a month in Iraq, so I'm going to save us money by risking victory in Iraq. If we lose there, then we'll either have to go back -- which will end up costing more lives and more money -- or accept our role in strengthening our enemies and betraying our American principles, not to mention our allies.

I will monitor the Wall Street Rescue Plan but continue to profit from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, which I helped grow into the monsters they are. I didn't propose any legislation to help curb their greed and stupidity, but I did write a letter to Paulson which I won't show you. By the way, John McCain actually brought forth legislation, which I didn't support.

I will end the Bush Tax Cuts which cut everyone's taxes and instead will raise your taxes, because that's what I always do -- support tax hikes. I have the record to prove it.

I will audit government spending. No, really, I'll make sure all my new government agencies run as efficiently as your tax dollars will allow.

Nothing about the plan has changed. Either you people just can't pay attention, or you're lying.

Well, the Obama campaign insists that its plan hasn't changed. Families making $250,000 or less will not see their taxes raised; families making less than $200,000 will see their taxes cut -- and some making more than that will -- depends on other factors, including your outstanding mortgage balance; individuals making less than $200,000 won't pay more and those making $150,000 will pay less.

This comports exactly with what Biden said today.

And it's pretty much what the Obama campaign has been saying all along... most every family making less than $250K would see a cut. None making less than that would see their taxes rise.

(In the second debate, Obama said: "If you make less than a quarter of a million dollars a year, you will not see a single dime of your taxes go up. If you make $200,000 a year or less, your taxes will go down.")

cf.

Under the Clinton years the tax rates Brackets were different
With it set at 200K you are looking at a 6% tax increase from today.
However with Bidden letting it slips it will be 150K that increase to 11%
Also it been 8 years so you would need to adjust for cost of living so in reality it going to hit families harder esp during the recession that Dem have been wishing for for the last 6 years.

Married Filling Jointly
2000
0 to 43K 15%
43K to 105K 28%
105K to 161K 31
161 to 288K 36
288K 39.6K

2008
0 to 16K 10% your tax increase to 15%
16 ti 65K 15% so if u make over 43K you will see your taxes increase to 28%
65 to 131 25% your tax now increase to from 28% to 31 over 105K
131 to 200K 28%
200K to 367 33%
357K and up 35%

Mantis,

I just heard this with my own ears, it's on video, he did indeed say $150,000. The video is not up yet as it's fairly new, but it is the case that he said that.

One supporter of Obama said that he simply made a mistake, and another fifteen minutes later said he was using any example under $200,000. Not sure which is true, but it was said.

This may likely mean no change in the plan, sure, but it's hard to ignore the number dropping for whatever reason, even a screwup.

dumbo is a dem. dems raise taxes. dems ruin America. dems hate America. dems want CCCP. Its all very simple.

me too - I had heard the same about the 150,000 with my own ears.
are they backpeddling now?