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Grathwohl On Ayers, Weather Underground

Bob Owens interviewed Larry Grathwohl, who was an under-cover FBI informant as a member of the Weather Underground. In Eyewitness to the Ayers Revolution, Grathwohl describes his close associations and interactions with "Billy" Ayers.

Pajamas Media: Scattered news accounts on the Internet note that you were instrumental in foiling Weather Underground attacks in February of 1970, in Detroit. The Weathermen built two bombs targeting the Detroit Police Officers' Association (DPOA) building and the 13th Precinct. Were the goals of these attacks symbolic property damage as were some other Weathermen attacks, or were these targets selected to kill police officers?

Larry Grathwohl: The instructions I received from Billy Ayers was that the bombs to be used in Detroit must have shrapnel (fence staples, specifically) and fire potential (propane bottles). The intention was to kill police officers.

Pajamas Media: One of the Detroit bombs was to be placed on the side of the DPOA building, and the blast was likely to cause damage to the adjacent Red Barn Restaurant, which had mostly African-American customers. Who ordered the attack, and what did he say when you told him that innocent civilians would be killed?

Larry Grathwohl: When I objected to Billy Ayers that more innocent people would be killed in the restaurant, he replied, "Innocent people have to die in a revolution." Billy also acknowledged during a criticism session in Buffalo that Bernadine placed the bomb at the Park Police Station which resulted in the death of Police Officer McDonnell.

Pajamas Media: Bill Ayers came out of hiding around 1980, became an college professor, and has served on numerous boards and foundations. Do you think he's changed in his radicalism?

Larry Grathwohl: Has Billy changed? I hardly think so.

Just a guy in the neighborhood whom The One thought had rehabilitated.

If accepting awards from and delivering speeches in praise of Hugo Chavez in Caracas, Venezuela are signs of rehabilitation, Obama is on solid logical ground. His award-winning "education reformer" friend is a man who believed that after his Communist revolution, the revolutionaries he led "would have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers" for rejecting communism.

Just a man who lived in the neighborhood. And whom he happened to serve on two boards with. And whose book, by chance, he reviewed glowingly. And in whose home he launched his political career.

Obama: The unluckiest man on the planet, duped for years by an unrepentant terrorist too crafty and adroit at deception for a Chicago politician to understand.

So the story goes.


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Comments (133)

Most of the readers/writers... (Below threshold)
Boots:

Most of the readers/writers/commenters on this blog will be among the 25 million rounded up for re-education....

Yet another reason <a href=... (Below threshold)

Yet another reason NOT to vote for Obama.

The list, long already, is getting longer and longer. It is to be hoped that enough sensible folks will come to the conclusion that this man is simply not qualified to be president, and either vote accordingly, or simply stay home on Nov. 4.

The reason for the r... (Below threshold)
Larry:


The reason for the rehabilitation (socalled) of William Ayers is simply; Daddy's money and Daddy's power.

Thomas Ayers was the CEO and Chairman of ConEd, the power company. He was the go to guy for Illinois politics for a generation. He supported community organizers and black interest groups as well as being on the boards of all the important social organizations in Chicago. Nobody, but nobody messed with Thomas Ayers and this included Daley, the Mayor.

Daddy's money and Daddy's power.

What is Ayers problem? (Why... (Below threshold)
mag:

What is Ayers problem? (Why does he hate this country? He was born into a wealthy family and had advantages because of that. So where does he get off how terrible America is.

Was he just bored? Is it because he is so homely (and his wife too)?

And as far as I concern obama is just as bad as he is. And if the majority of people in this country are center/right why is it that everyone thinks obama has this election in the bag. Something is not adding up.

mag, I think at least part ... (Below threshold)
Steve Schippert:

mag, I think at least part of the equation is that McCain is simply - as he has always been - a weak candidate.

ah yes. i hate it when peop... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

ah yes. i hate it when people are closely connected to killers. take, for example, john mccain. john mccain is a known accomplice of george w bu$h, the war criminal who is responsible for the deaths of thousands of US soldiers and tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqi civilians, all perpetrated with falsified intel. mccain and bu$h have worked fervently to make sure that torture is practiced without hinderance, that unauthorized surveillance on americans is tolerated, and that our most basic rights are unavailable for citizens and foreigners alike should the govt ever find them too inconvenient

mccain: he pals around with complete scum.

Peabody, you crack me up!</... (Below threshold)

Peabody, you crack me up!

Boots, the funny thing is t... (Below threshold)
Steve Schippert:

Boots, the funny thing is that these folks, when confronted face to face, are cowards. And rounding up anyone in their fantastical visions requires such confrontation.

Same applies to al-Qaeda terrorists. Ever notice the attrition rate in confrontations with them in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere when the conflict gets down to hand-to-hand, face to face? It's pretty ugly.

Was at a DC protest where the Weather Underground's predecessor - Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) - was part of the march. They were a disorganized gaggle of kids generally pissed off about everything but unwilling to play reindeer games with a handful of veterans who would not yield their ground on the Capitol lawn. Instead, they shouted and screamed as they made their way to the wall on the side, and proceeded to light up joints and various other means of entertainment.

For what it's worth.

Dreaming up this stuff in a room of 25, setting off bombs after departing the scene, shouting and yelling while walking backwards - these are your 'revolutionaries.'

The great thing abut Marxis... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

The great thing abut Marxist is that the leaders all seem to be the same.
Born into a good family, goes to good school, hates their country and needs to establish a society that punishes a large segment of that population.

Karl Marx espoused the Dictatorship of the proletariat. it what you have between capitalist state and Communism where people have to be re-educated.
Vladimir Lenin
Joseph Stalin 25 Million
Mao Tse Tung 20 Million
Pol Pot


you forgot one nice tidbit.... (Below threshold)
billy:

you forgot one nice tidbit. there is absolutely no connection between obama and ayers.

I guess Pea's Freshman Engl... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

I guess Pea's Freshman English writing assignment for today was to compose a paragraph with at least one lie in every sentence.

For that you get an A, for grammar and content, an F.

well bunyan, i guess bu$h w... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

well bunyan, i guess bu$h wasnt lying about everything having to do with iraq

he was just plumb mistaken!

no WMDs? oops!
no arial drones? oops!
no active nuke program? oops!
no al quaeda ties? oops!
no anthrax stockpiles? oops!
no mobile weapons labs? oops!

no nothin?? hey! honest mistakes im sure!!

Billy either does not know ... (Below threshold)
SteveM:

Billy either does not know about the detailed evidence that ties Ayers to Obama for years, or chooses to put fealty to his master over the good of the nation. Either one is a sad commentary.

Pea,I think you ca... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Pea,

I think you can answer the question raised by mag in #4 "Why does he hate this country?" just be explaining why you do. Well, assuming you're a citizen of the U.S. Maybe you're a citizen of Iran, which would explain a lot.

one thing i do know is that... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

one thing i do know is that ayers is not a factor in this election.... except in the overworked little minds of the neocon lunatic fringe

a question that actually matters in this election is: why do bu$h and mccain hate the constitution? is there any particular reason for wanting to suspend habeus corpus and basic privacy rights? after all, if you dont have those rights, then you really dont have ANY rights

you may feel differently, but to me anyone who hates the constitution as much as bu$h and mccain do really must hate america

Pea,Looks like you... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Pea,

Looks like you included WMD four times in your list. I see you missed the fact that Bill Clinton said Saddam had WMD, as did Kerry, as did most of the democrats. You also missed the fact that Saddam was the special kind of despot capable of using WMD even on his own people. You also missed the fact that Saddam was a mass murderer and that he was close to bribing his way out from under UN sanctions. You also missed the fact that Saddam was paying reward money to terrorists. You, and many like you, would have left Saddam and his sadistic sons in power with billions of oil dollars to carry out their vendetta against the U.S. for their humiliating defeat in the first gulf war. Now that would have be really stupid, that kind of stupid only liberals seem capable of.

Pea,Disingenous Ma... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Pea,

Disingenous Marxist talking points do not a cogent argument make.

But I apoloze to all the topic Natzi's who abhor OT posts, and I promise just ignore your ignorance from now on. It's a waste of bandwidth anyway- you can't handle the truth.

Why don't you get back on topic and tell us how wonderful Obama's close friend, advisor, and political ally, Bill Ayer's actually is and how wrong those of us who question Obama's judgement because of this association are?

you werent wetting your pan... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

you werent wetting your pants about saddam in 2000, back when powell said that he was a non-player in the middle east theater. 911 didnt change that. i guess since powell backs obama then you wont want to hear about it. aint that right...

all the weak lies about saddams WMDs came after 911, when bu$h had you where he wanted you, an audience captive to its own fears and bruised egos

anyone else could have handled a measured US response to terrorism better than bu$h. anyone who would actually make it a top priority to confront terror rather than grab at the money, that is

bu$h is a lowly traitor and a war criminal. but you can thank him for making the coming election of the patriotic obama a reality

Pea, since you are a self l... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Pea, since you are a self loathing lib I will type slowly for you. The congress gave the authority to GW. If not, it would not have happened. Oh Yeah! A lot of the dems also. NOw spin that peabrain. ww

well bunyan, i guess you do... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

well bunyan, i guess you dont know what marxism is since you support palin, who redistributes oil corporation wealth to alaskan citizens

and you dont even know how to spell nazi, which may explain why you support the fascist president bu$h who has used every propaganda trick from the same playbook they used

your overwhelming ignorance is what makes you a political tool. the threats to your freedom are your own political idols

ah well, no matter. get ready for president obama and an end to bu$h fascism

ww, as youve already been t... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

ww, as youve already been told, the use of force resolution wasnt a war resolution

im sure you know it but if you want to give me a platform to repeat myself, all the better

the proof of the matter is that the point of the resolution was that bu$h hadnt just made up his mind to attack iraq no matter what

you can be happy nobody was able to stop bu$h from spilling untold amounts of blood and money, but its he who has made obamas coming presidency possible

maybe you can write bu$h a lil thank you note for that

=]

Pea,a que... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Pea,

a question that actually matters in this election is: why do bu$h and mccain hate the constitution? is there any particular reason for wanting to suspend habeus corpus and basic privacy rights? after all, if you dont have those rights, then you really dont have ANY rights

First habeas corpus is not guaranteed by the constitution. Rather it flows for English common law and is part of the jurist prudence of the U.S. Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the civil war, In 1942, the Supreme Court ruled in Ex parte Quirin that unlawful combatant saboteurs could be denied habeas corpus and tried by military commission, making a distinction between lawful and unlawful combatants. The AEDPA signed into law by Bill Clinton also sets a statute of limitations of on habeas corpus. These rulings and precedences were the basis for the action taken by Bush. Yes, the Supreme Court has given new rulings, and Bush is abiding by them. This is the way it's supposed to work.

As for privacy rights, they're not in the constitution either beyond that of an unreasonable search, secure in your papers, and such. As for a warrantless wire tap, we have them all the time. Just call some pawn shop and your conversation is likely being recorded, and even though there's no warrant for you, anything you say can be used against you as Eliot Spitzer found out. But, hey, the left thinks those being called by overseas terrorists shouldn't be subject to the same rules.

So why does Obama hate the constitution? His stated position is to impose a federal law prohibiting states for issuing permits to carry concealed firearms. That's a direct violation of the 10th amendment.

not too long ago, i never w... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

not too long ago, i never would have imagined the day i would see americans speaking out against privacy and habeus corpus, while promoting such things as torturing uncharged detainees

it will take a little time to wash that bu$h scum off america, but we'll get there. as for fixing all his other disasters, one can only hope.....

I'm curious why no o... (Below threshold)
jmc:


I'm curious why no one here who is so disturbed by Ayers, is disturbed by the Palins links to the Alaskan independence party. Lets look at the facts:

1)Todd Palin was a member of the party for seven years

2)Sarah palin has told them: "Keep up the good work,"

3)The founder of the AIP Joe Vogler has said: "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government."

4)Vogler disappeared under suspicious circumst in May 1993, just weeks before he was scheduled to give a speech to the United Nations on Alaskan independence, sponsored by, tada! the government of Iran

5)Sarah has called their convention "inspiring."

Why is this not relevant when Ayers is?

Peabody is just a little fl... (Below threshold)

Peabody is just a little flame-throwing mental midget. Ignore him. He thrives on negative attention like a child that can't get any other kind.

Please spread this around, ... (Below threshold)
The Mexican:

Please spread this around, its very important, and yes, your gut is right, Obama is running a disinformation campaign:

This is how they do it. From a comment at hillbuzz early today.

October 27, 2008 at 5:04 am

Ok, I want to clear my conscious a little. Hopefully you could make a blog post to help some fellow clinton supporters out.

I work for a campaign and can't wait for this week to be over.

I was doing it for a job. I was not a fan of any candidate but over time grew to love HRC.

The internal campaign idea is to twist, distort, humiliate and finally dispirit you.

We pay people and organize people to go to all the online sites and "play the part of a clinton or mccain supporter who just switched our support for obama"

We do this to stifle your motivation and to destroy your confidence.

We did this the whole primary and it worked.

Sprinkle in mass vote confusion and it becomes bewildering. Most people lose patience and just give up on their support of a candidate and decide to just block out tv, news, websites, etc.

This surprisingly has had a huge suppressing movement and vote turnout issues.

Next, we infiltrate all the blogs and all the youtube videos and overwhelm the voting, the comments, etc. All to continue this appearance of overwhelming world support.

People makes posts to the effect that the world has "gone mad"

Thats the intention. To make you feel stressed and crazy and feel like the world is ending.

We have also had quite a hand in skewing many many polls, some we couldn't control as much as we would have liked. But many we have spoiled over. Just enough to make real clear politics look scarey to a mccain supporter. Its worked, alough the goal was to appear 13-15 points ahead.

see, the results have been working. People tend to support a winner, go with the flow, become "sheeple"

The polls are roughly 3-5 points in favor of Barack. Thats due to our inflation of the polls and pulling in the sheeple.

Our donors, are the same people who finance the MSM. Their interests are tied, Barack then tends to come across as teflon. Nothing sticks. And trust, there were meetings with Fox news. The goal was to blunt them as much as possible. Watch Bill Oreilly he has become much more diplomatic and "fair and balanced" and soft. Its because he wants to retain the #1 spot on cable news and to do that he has to have access to the Obama campaign and we worked hard at stringing him a long and keeping him soft for an interview swap. It worked and now he is anticipating more access. So he is playing it still soft.

This is why nothing sticks.

The operation is massive, the goal is to paint a picture that is that of a winner, regardless of the results.

There is no true inauguration draft or true grant park construction going on. There will be a party, but we are boasting beyond the truth to make it seem like the election is wrapped up.

Our goal is to continue to make you lose your moral. We worked hard at persuasion and paying off and timing and playing the right political numbers to get key republican endorsements to make it seem even more like it was over and the world was coming to an end for you all.

There is a huge staff of people working around the clock, watching every site, blogs, etc. We flood these sites. We have had a goal to overwhelm.

The truth is here. I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

I am saying this because I know HRC was better for the country, and now realize this. I was too late by the time I connected to her. To me Barack was just a cool young dude that seemed like a star. I didn't know him or his policies, but now I understand more than I care to and I realize his interests are more for him, and the DNC and all working like puppets with dean. I always thought a president wanted the better good for the country. The end result I see is everyone dependent on the government, this means more and more people voting for the DNC. This means the future is forever altered. I don't see this as america, so I am now supporting John Mccain.

Sarah Palin is a huge threat, and our campaign has feared her like you can't imagine. If it seems unfair how she has been treated, well its because she has had a team working round the clock to make her look like a fool.

this is a big conspiracy and I am so shocked that its not realized.

We released a little blurb the other day that the Obama campaign was already working on reelection and now putting our efforts towards 2012. This was to make it seem like it was above us to continue caring about 2008. Trust me, its a lie. David is very smart, but its a sticky ugly not very truthful kind of intelligence.

Its not over yet, but I think the machine is working. And its a hill to climb.

I will be quitting my post on nov 5th and my vote will be for John Mccain. Fortunately, my position has been a marketing position and I don't feel I had any part of anything I would feel guilty for. But I look forward to getting out of this as the negativity and environment upsets me.

I wish you all well, and goodluck.

PS my name is not really sarah. but I am a female and I understand your plight.

http://pumapac.org/2008/10/28/astroturfing/

Pea, you ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Pea,

you werent wetting your pants about saddam in 2000, back when powell said that he was a non-player in the middle east theater. 911 didnt change that. i guess since powell backs obama then you wont want to hear about it. aint that right...

And yet it was powell making the case that Saddam had WMDs. If you want to hang your hat on powell go ahead. The fact remains that Saddam would have soon been out from under UN sanctions. What 9/11 changed is we that went from one front to two, not that I expect you to understand why that's significant, but it would have been a disaster to have left Saddam in power.

all the weak lies about saddams WMDs came after 911, when bu$h had you where he wanted you, an audience captive to its own fears and bruised egos

You forget your history. After 9/11 most democrats will saying that Saddam had WMDs, and we know to this day that Saddam was the kind of SOB capable of ordering their use.

anyone else could have handled a measured US response to terrorism better than bu$h.

Bill Clinton tried that and it didn't work. Bush understood just what kind of ass holes we are up against. A lesson Obama may have to learn the hard way, if elected.

pea's trying to have it bot... (Below threshold)
brainy435:

pea's trying to have it both ways again: Bush is too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time, yet somehow managed to completely embarass most every democrat in Congress by "foolong" them into actually addressing the 12 years of corruption and acts of war by Saddams Iraq.

Mag. . .W... (Below threshold)
Larry:

Mag. . .

What is Ayers problem? (Why does he hate this country? He was born into a wealthy family and had advantages because of that. So where does he get off how terrible America is.

A number of shrinks try to explain it. Scion of a rich family turns bomber. Basically they are fruitcakes trying to differentiate themselves from their parents by joining something that is bigger than themselves.

JMCThe MSM and AIP ... (Below threshold)
hcddbz:

JMC
The MSM and AIP states Plain not a member of the AIP
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

AIp did not plant Bombs
AIP did not envision killing millions of Americans
THE AIP did not Put Plain in charge of foundation to dispense 150 Million dollars
Tod did not Ask the AIP to be on Board with his wife because he liked their writings.
Thr AIP did not plan to Kill American Soldiers and their girl friends.
The AIP did launch Sarah's Political career
So maybe those are the reasons.
Bill Ayers waged war against the Untied States and wanted to help the communist win. We call that TREASON
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

AIP has political platform that they express.
Sarah never been a member of the Party.

It is called free speech.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Jmc: "Why is this not re... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Jmc: "Why is this not relevant when Ayers is?"

I almost hate to dignify your question with an answer, but here's a few reasons off the top of my head:

(1) Palin never lied about her relationship with AIP, Obama constantly lies about his relationship with Ayers.

(2) Palin had one interaction with AIP (when she was a mayor and they were holding a conventino in her town), Obama has a long close working relationship with Ayers.

(3) Todd Palin isn't running for anything, Obama is running for President.

(4) AIP is not a communist organization and has never committed acts of terrorism or killed anyone, Bill Ayers is a communist, he was a terorist, and he is personally responsible for killing innocent people.

Why is this not re... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Why is this not relevant when Ayers is?

jmc~

All I can say is, it's a good thing you are married to an "ivy leaguer". My heart goes out to her, though, cuz she's stuck with a guy that refers to her as the "ol' lady". Unless, of course, she calls you the "ol' man".

Steve S - "Was at a DC ... (Below threshold)
marc:

Steve S - "Was at a DC protest where the Weather Underground's predecessor - Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) - was part of the march."

Being in the right age category I remember very well the SDS, as a Michigan resident at the time also very aware that states chapter was very active.

Fact is, they are still active in some small manner, and they SDS held a reunion of SDS members at Michigan State University last December.

Also note at the link bill ayres and his wife were members of SDS and it also contains videos of both specking at the reunmion.

billy - "you forgot one... (Below threshold)
marc:

billy - "you forgot one nice tidbit. there is absolutely no connection between obama and ayers."

You forgot something as well.

There is absolutely no connection between your beliefs and reality nor is there one between your keyboard and any reliable brain activity.

pea3000 - "ww, as youve... (Below threshold)
marc:

pea3000 - "ww, as youve already been told, the use of force resolution wasnt a war resolution"

That aside ('cause it's only a "debatable" issue for loonbats like you), what does the 1991 Iraq war ceasefire agreement mean to you?

"All I can say is, it's a g... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"All I can say is, it's a good thing you are married to an "ivy leaguer". My heart goes out to her, though, cuz she's stuck with a guy that refers to her as the "ol' lady". Unless, of course, she calls you the "ol' man"."


Actually and as usual, you are wrong I was replying to the following when I used the term ol' lady.

"yo jmc, what are ya gonna buy with your first obamacheck? Flat screen TV? Satellite dish? New wheels for the AMC Pacer? Get that tatoo for your ol' lady she's always wanted?"

So, I then pointed out my "ol' lady" is one of them ivy league snobs and not much into tattoo joints. Don't worry I would have expected you to miss that..

So now that the facts have been set straight I notice you didn't dispute my facts on the Palins.


Didn't say: "Actually jmc Todd palin wasn't in the AIE for 7 years.."

Didn't say: " No JMC here is evidence that the founder of the AIE wasn't at the UN at the Request of IRAN to speak about Alaska seceding from the U.S."


Maybe you should try dating an ivy leaguer Maybe then you would understand your logical inconsistenices.

Pea,not t... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Pea,

not too long ago, i never would have imagined the day i would see americans speaking out against privacy and habeus corpus, while promoting such things as torturing uncharged detainees

Not speaking out against privacy or habeas corpus, just setting you straight as to their source and their limitations. Nor am I promoting such things as torturing uncharged detainees.

Not too long ago, I never would have imagined the day I would see Americans taking serious a presidential candidate who supports after birth abortions and pals around with unrepentant terrorists.

jmc - "I'm curious why ... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - "I'm curious why no one here who is so disturbed by Ayers, is disturbed by the Palins links to the Alaskan independence party. Lets look at the facts::

Maybe, just maybe because ayers was an active and still unapolgetic terrorist.

Maybe because the Alaskan AIP is an official and recognized political party in that state since 1986 AND in fact a member of the party was governor at one point (Walter Joseph Hickel, 1990) and has not supported the state leaving the Union since then

And just maybe you would rather spew talking points offered up by media matters, mor0n.org and the obama-bots rather than using your own brain. (What there is of it.)

I almost hate to dignif... (Below threshold)
jmc:

I almost hate to dignify your question with an answer, but here's a few reasons off the top of my head:

Funny that is how I feel about Ayers.

Palin never lied about her relationship with AIP, Obama constantly lies about his relationship with Ayers.

First off he has not lied about his relationship with Ayers secondly no one in the mainstream media has asked Palin about her ties to AIE but she has certainly minimized it..

Palin had one interaction with AIP (when she was a mayor and they were holding a convention in her town), Obama has a long close working relationship with Ayers.

Sarah's husband was a member for seven years, while married to Sarah. So you might say she has "a long close working relationship" with someone part of a radical organization that's goal has been to break away from the U.S. Sarah has told the AIP they are inspiring, and should "keep up the good work" She has also, while mayor of Wasillia appointed members of the AIP to important government positions.

Todd Palin isn't running for anything, Obama is running for President. ,

Bill Ayers isn't running for anything Sarah palin is running for Vice president of the United States.


AIP is not a communist organization and has never committed acts of terrorism or killed anyone, Bill Ayers is a communist, he was a terorist, and he is personally responsible for killing innocent people.


Bill Ayers doesn't have ties to Iran. Bill Ayers wasn't going to speak at the UN for the need to secede from the "Evil United States of America." Islamic fascist tied to a future a possible future VP; tch, tch, tch,.

(2) Palin had one interaction with AIP (when she was a mayor and they were holding a conventino in her town), Obama has a long close working relationship with Ayers.

(3) Todd Palin isn't running for anything, Obama is running for President.

(4) AIP is not a communist organization and has never committed acts of terrorism or killed anyone, Bill Ayers is a communist, he was a terorist, and he is personally responsible for killing innocent people.

I almost hate to dignify y... (Below threshold)
jmc:

I almost hate to dignify your question with an answer, but here's a few reasons off the top of my head:

Funny that is how I feel about Ayers.

Palin never lied about her relationship with AIP, Obama constantly lies about his relationship with Ayers.

First off he has not lied about his relationship with Ayers secondly no one in the mainstream media has asked Palin about her ties to AIE but she has certainly minimized it..

Palin had one interaction with AIP (when she was a mayor and they were holding a convention in her town), Obama has a long close working relationship with Ayers.

Sarah's husband was a member for seven years, while married to Sarah. So you might say she has "a long close working relationship" with someone part of a radical organization that's goal has been to break away from the U.S. Sarah has told the AIP they are inspiring, and should "keep up the good work" She has also, while mayor of Wasillia appointed members of the AIP to important government positions.

Todd Palin isn't running for anything, Obama is running for President. ,

Bill Ayers isn't running for anything Sarah palin is running for Vice president of the United States.


AIP is not a communist organization and has never committed acts of terrorism or killed anyone, Bill Ayers is a communist, he was a terorist, and he is personally responsible for killing innocent people.


Bill Ayers doesn't have ties to Iran. Bill Ayers wasn't going to speak at the UN for the need to secede from the "Evil United States of America." Islamic fascist tied to a future a possible future VP; tch, tch, tch,.

JMC - "3)The founder of... (Below threshold)
marc:

JMC - "3)The founder of the AIP Joe Vogler has said: "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government."

*Nice* inflammatory quote you chose to make some kind of point, and I think we know what that point is.

However a more enlightening exercise would be to listen to Voglers own words via this audio.

Note sections 15 qand 16 where Vogler says the following:

"We're seeking a plebescite, in which there'll be three choices, with Alaskans voting on it. That is our prime motive, we just want a vote. We'll live by the results of it."

"A number of shrinks try... (Below threshold)

"A number of shrinks try to explain it."

It's simple. Rage against the trust fund.

Maybe, just maybe becau... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Maybe, just maybe because ayers was an active and still unapolgetic terrorist.

Actually he has apologized, he also was long finished with the weather underground by the time Obama met him.


Maybe because the Alaskan AIP is an official and recognized political party in that state since 1986 AND in fact a member of the party was governor at one point (Walter Joseph Hickel, 1990) and has not supported the state leaving the Union since then

Ahh I see, so the fact that the radical organization led by a radical leader, who worked with Iran to bad mouth his country, is ok because it is in the past, yet the fact that Ayers did his deeds in the past and worked with Barack on education reform makes no difference. No hypocrisy here.

And just maybe you would rather spew talking points offered up by media matters, mor0n.org and the obama-bots rather than using your own brain. (What there is of it.)

And maybe, just maybe, in fact likely you are too dumb to realize the contradictions in what you have written.

in the end, your fringe tha... (Below threshold)
peabody3000:

in the end, your fringe that thrives so hungrily on lies has shrunk past the point of relevance

president-to-be obama is full proof of that

ah, not that neocons deal with proof very well...

=]

MC - "3)The founder of the ... (Below threshold)
jmc:

MC - "3)The founder of the AIP Joe Vogler has said: "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government."

*Nice* inflammatory quote you chose to make some kind of point, and I think we know what that point is.

Your right the point is he is a radical nutbag who hates America. He says so himself.

However a more enlightening exercise would be to listen to Voglers own words via this audio.

I have listened to his own words. Where he says, "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government" seems of particular relevance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmYqRfp6-x8

/sarcash alert/JMC... (Below threshold)
Larry:

/sarcash alert/

JMC - you are not making that stuff up. Why it is shocking, shocking, leave us go round up the usual suspects forthwith. Leave us put Todd and Sarah in jail and turn the kids over to Child Services. Why, why, sputter, sput, the Alaska Independence Party. How dare they! This is treason, right?

Uh, did they blow up police stations? No, but someone disappeared, must be skullduggery, right?

Was Sarah a member? Well no, but we can tar and feather her anyway, right?

Did she get their endorsement? Well, no, but what the heck, that they MIGHT have considered it is more evidence. Oh, yea, leave us be very very quite about the New Part endorsing Obama, don't want to give people ideas or anything.

Why, she is probably a thespian or something like that too.

/end sarcasm alert/

JMC is the real deal folks, you can't fiction someone as self deluded as JMC. Anyone want to bet he is one of the paid trolls?

In fact, can we have a contest to identify paid trolls?

jmc - "Actually he has ... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - "Actually he has apologized, he also was long finished with the weather underground by the time Obama met him."

Show me a quote with a link. That should be simple enough.

jmc - "Ahh I see, so the fact that the radical organization led by a radical leader, who worked with Iran to bad mouth his country, is ok because it is in the past, yet the fact that Ayers did his deeds in the past and worked with Barack on education reform makes no difference. No hypocrisy here."

Vogler hasn't been a player in the AIP since running for governor in 1986. To use your words, Vogler "did his deeds in the past" and the party hasn't been in favor of succession since so what's your point?

Again, you have proof otherwise, show me, with a link.

Larry, you forgot to add To... (Below threshold)
marc:

Larry, you forgot to add Todd Palin joined the AIP in 1995 5 years after the AIP quit advocating the state leave the union.

pea3000 - "ah, not that... (Below threshold)
marc:

pea3000 - "ah, not that neocons deal with proof very well..."

Try me, regale me with your thoughts on the 1991 Iraq war Ceasefire agreement between the U.S. and Iraq.

Jmc, You, Pea, and... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Jmc,

You, Pea, and the rest of the leftist trolls on this site have said things about the American government that are just as bad as the quote you posted from Volgers.

That makes you a hypocrite.

Also, Obama when first confronted about Ayers said "he's just some guy from my neighborhood".

Is that not a lie?

And the lies only got worse after that.

Sorry you're supporting someone of such low character and lack of honesty, though. That must be hard for you. I can see why you're so angry.

Pea: "president[-in-my-w... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Pea: "president[-in-my-wet-dreams]Obama is full proof of that"

We neo-cons thrive on Obama's lies? That makes no sense. We do feel it's important to point them out (which is difficult as they are so many and so constant), but I don't think we thrive on them.

/sarcash alert/ J... (Below threshold)
jmc:

/sarcash alert/
JMC - you are not making that stuff up. Why it is shocking, shocking, leave us go round up the usual suspects forthwith. Leave us put Todd and Sarah in jail and turn the kids over to Child Services. Why, why, sputter, sput, the Alaska Independence Party. How dare they! This is treason, right?

Well Gosh, Golly Gee. Barack Obama worked with Bill Ayers on education reform EDUCATION REFORM! Take his kids hurry! Sputter, sput treason. You stunning display of both hypocrisy and stupidity is amusing to behold.

Uh, did they blow up police stations? No, but someone disappeared, must be skullduggery, right?

Uh, Did Bill Ayers work with Iran to make the U.S. Look bad? Did Bill Ayers buy trying to buy platic explosives? Probably a bit of skullduggery.

Was Sarah a member? Well no, but we can tar and feather her anyway, right?


Was Barack a member of the weather underground at eight years old? No, but we can tar and feather him anyway right?
/end sarcasm alert/

Larry is the real deal folks, you can't find someone so deluded they can't see how easy it to use their logic against them.
Anyone want to bet Larry didn't graduate college?

Says the man who has... (Below threshold)
jmc:


Says the man who has to provide a link of his own.


mc - "Actually he has apologized, he also was long finished with the weather underground by the time Obama met him."

Show me a quote with a link. That should be simple enough.

jmc - "Ahh I see, so the fact that the radical organization led by a radical leader, who worked with Iran to bad mouth his country, is ok because it is in the past, yet the fact that Ayers did his deeds in the past and worked with Barack on education reform makes no difference. No hypocrisy here."

Vogler hasn't been a player in the AIP since running for governor in 1986. To use your words, Vogler "did his deeds in the past" and the party hasn't been in favor of succession since so what's your point?

Again, you have proof otherwise, show me, with a link.

jmc - You're long on typing... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - You're long on typing skills but short on proof.

Come on, I asked you to preform a simple exercise, provide a quote, with link, of ayres apologizing.

"Larry, you forgot to add T... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"Larry, you forgot to add Todd Palin joined the AIP in 1995 5 years after the AIP quit advocating the state leave the union."

He also forget to mention that barack met Bill Ayers in 1993 some 25 years or so after Ayers was in the weather underground.

25 years trumps five.

OK, you convinced me. I won... (Below threshold)
Brian:

OK, you convinced me. I won't vote for Ayers.

"Come on, I asked you to pr... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"Come on, I asked you to preform a simple exercise, provide a quote, with link, of ayres apologizing."

Said the man who has yet to provide a link of his own.

"Don't worry I would have e... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Don't worry I would have expected you to miss that.."

I didn't miss the fact that you chose to repeat the words "ol' lady" and not refer to her as your wife. No, I am not worried, as you also referred to her as a "snob". Your attempt at dry humor has chaffed your thinking to such a degree, that you missed my suggestion that she has the brains. That is also why I didn't address your blather about Palin's husband in comparison to Ayers bombing the Pentagon, and having to go underground after his friends, including his girlfriend blew themselves up in a botched bank bombing attempt:

"In 1970, Ayers' then-girlfriend Diana Oughton, along with Weatherman members Terry Robbins and Ted Gold, were killed when a bomb they were constructing exploded unexpectedly. That bomb had been intended for detonation at a dance that was to be attended by army soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Hundreds of lives could have been lost had the plan been successfully executed. Ayers attested that the bomb would have done serious damage, "tearing through windows and walls and, yes, people too."
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169
Yeah, that is a special group Obama is *not* associated with.

Said the man who h... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Said the man who has yet to provide a link of his own.

jmc, thank you for proving my point about the brains.

jmc - "Was Barack a mem... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - "Was Barack a member of the weather underground at eight years old? No, but we can tar and feather him anyway right? "

Better watch out using "tar and feather" in an obama context might get you labeled as a racist.

And obama was in his 30's and 40's when he was named to run a monetary fund by ayres worth at the time $50 million. Eventually under obama's direction he doled out $150 million dollars to improve EDUCATION in Chicago.

To say obama and his millions had little effect is an understatement.

jmc... are you a Wizbang Bl... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc... are you a Wizbang Blue plant?

Marc, he is just a plant... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Marc, he is just a plant that hasn't been watered, and probably a paid one. Better troll quality would be nice. At least mantis tries.

I didn't miss the fact ... (Below threshold)
jmc:

I didn't miss the fact that you chose to repeat the words "ol' lady" and not refer to her as your wife. No,


I didn't miss the fact that you chose to repeat the words "ol' lady" and not refer to her as your wife. No, I am not worried, as you also referred to her as a "snob". Your attempt at dry humor has chaffed your thinking to such a degree, that you missed my suggestion that she has the brains.

I did, and then proceeded to explain how she is everything the original poster would hate. A smart, serious person who chose to go to an ivy league school and has done much with her life. What morons like you would call eastern elite. I fuind it funny though you don't condemn the person who suggested my "ol' lady' is gonna take her barackomoney and get a tattoo. Just another instance of your hypocrisy.

LaMedusa - Yeah far better.... (Below threshold)
marc:

LaMedusa - Yeah far better.

What's laughable is if jmc had half a brain he'd post a link, THEN accuse me of not posting any. Not even smart enough to figure that out for himself.

As it is the single one posted (comment 45) is to what he already quoted and isn't in dispute.

Curious, jmc...are you a me... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Curious, jmc...are you a member of jp2's "show me the money" club, make other people get information for you? I mean, with all the information you have been given, you just hang out to be ignorant. Do you, also, "copy people" to cash in? Maybe looking for you average "Jim" or "Charles" or "Roscoe" to leech off of?

"jmc, thank you for proving... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"jmc, thank you for proving my point about the brains."

No problem LaMed. I just want to say proving you had no brains was as easy as demonstrating gravity.

Just another insta... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Just another instance of your hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy? You repeat another commenter's wording and raise him one with a word of your own, not at all flattering until now. She's ivy league, you lucked out and make her do the thinking for you.

"I just want to say proving... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"I just want to say proving you had no brains was as easy as demonstrating gravity."

You wouldn't have a clue on how to prove even that.

Marc,Chicago Magaz... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Marc,

Chicago Magazine reported that "just before the September 11th attacks," Richard Elrod, a city lawyer injured in the Weathermen's Chicago "Days of Rage," received an apology from Ayers and Dohrn for their part in the violence. "[T]hey were remorseful," Elrod says. "They said, 'We're sorry that things turned out this way.


http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/December-2006/Sudden-Impact/index.php?cp=3&si=2#artanc

Now it is your turn. Show me a link that says Todd palin doesn't support Joe Vogel's radical pro-Iran anti-america agenda.

Just another instance o... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Just another instance of your hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy? You repeat another commenter's wording and raise him one with a word of your own, not at all flattering until now. She's ivy league, you lucked out and make her do the thinking for you.

At least someone is doing the thinking for me. In your case it is painfully apparent no one thinking is involved.

"You wouldn't have a clue o... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"You wouldn't have a clue on how to prove even that."

Sure I would, I'd just hold you upside down and drop you on your head.

Much like your mother must have done when you were a child.

See? You have no clue on h... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

See? You have no clue on how to prove the existence of gravity. Heh, "Much like your mother must have done". Projecting again, are we?

"See? You have no clue on h... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"See? You have no clue on how to prove the existence of gravity. Heh, "Much like your mother must have done". Projecting again, are we?"

Man you are dumb. I said demonstrate. The word I used was "demonstrate." I would demonstrate gravity by dropping you on your head. Something that must have been a regular occurance in your life.

"Man you are dumb."H... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Man you are dumb."
Huh uh, you quoted me, then remembered you said demonstrate.
Why did you quote me first? Anyway, your demonstration, by itself, would not demonstrate gravity.

But to get back on topic, what do you think of the Annenberg Challenge, and Obama's and Ayers' involvement in that?

Well this has been interest... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Well this has been interesting,

still no one has demonstrated in anyway shape or from that they are not being hypocritical by attacking Obama for his connection to Ayers and ignoring the Palin's link to the Alaskan independence party.

I think it is safe to say the majority of you are hypocrites and in some cases like La(please take your)Medusa, just plain stupid. I will be back later.

Also, jmc, what do you thin... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Also, jmc, what do you think of unrepentant Ayers' association with Obama? He apologized for someone else, sure, but regarding the Pentagon, he said he wished he could have done more.

But to get back on topic, w... (Below threshold)
jmc:

But to get back on topic, what do you think of the Annenberg Challenge, and Obama's and Ayers' involvement in that?

Don't know much about it. What do you think of Iran sponsoring the AIP to speak against the USA at the UN?

jmc - "Now it is your t... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - "Now it is your turn."

No it's not. You didn't provide what was asked of you, a ayres quote and link. You provided what is called hearsay.

You do know that concept correct?

Also, jmc, what do you t... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Also, jmc, what do you think of unrepentant Ayers' association with Obama? He apologized for someone else, sure, but regarding the Pentagon, he said he wished he could have done more.

And neither I, nor Barack Obama have defended that. Barack denounced it. However, have you heard the Palin's denounce a man who was the founder of Todd's party for seven years for agreeing to help Iran make the USA look bad?

jmc - "What do you thin... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - "What do you think of Iran sponsoring the AIP to speak against the USA at the UN?

Better question... why does a search of that revel 99.99% far left-wing or left-wing leaning websites and forums?

As "anti-Plain" the MSM is one would think at least a few of them would report on that.

"No it's not. You didn't pr... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"No it's not. You didn't provide what was asked of you, a ayres quote and link. You provided what is called hearsay.

You do know that concept correct?"

Apparently better than you.

Hearsay: unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge: I pay no attention to hearsay.

Richard Elrod is on record in chicago magazine (link provided) saying Ayers apologized to him. This is not Hearsay.

Now as I have provided proof it is your turn to provide some. Or isit that you posses none to back up your claims?

"Barack denounced it."... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Barack denounced it."

Link? What link?

"jmc - "What do you think o... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"jmc - "What do you think of Iran sponsoring the AIP to speak against the USA at the UN?

Better question... why does a search of that revel 99.99% far left-wing or left-wing leaning websites and forums?"

Got any proof of that? a quote a link/ something?

jmc - "Don't know much ... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - "Don't know much about it.


This in response to a query about your knowledge of the Annenberg Challenge.

Pretard.... meet Hoist!

Lamed,are you ever... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Lamed,

are you ever going to answer my question about iran... ever?

jmc - Got any proof of that... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - Got any proof of that? a quote a link/ something?

and that's all you have in response to what was found via a search? What you don't know how to format a search query? Or what a search engine is?

I was mistaken, thought your were the normal everyday troll.

You're not, just an idiotic, misinformed lair and one wearing and asshat.

This in response to a query... (Below threshold)
jmc:

This in response to a query about your knowledge of the Annenberg Challenge.

Pretard.... meet Hoist!


Said the dumb dumb who smugly misused the word hearsay :)

"and that's all you have in... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"and that's all you have in response to what was found via a search? What you don't know how to format a search query? Or what a search engine is?"

Said the dumb dumb who forgot smugly asking for a link and a quote himself.

"I was mistaken, thought your were the normal everyday troll."

Said the crybaby after losing the debate.

jmc, I think you mean "peta... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

jmc, I think you mean "petard" unless you are using the urban dictionary, but I don't think you are. Smugly misused? heh...

jmc, I think you mean "peta... (Below threshold)
JMC:

jmc, I think you mean "petard" unless you are using the urban dictionary,

HAHAHA that is so funny. You are insulting marc you moron. I just quoted what he wrote :)

are you ever going... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
are you ever going to answer my question about iran... ever?

I need you to provide some sources. I could only find links to Salon and DailyKos. Where are their sources?

LaMedusa - that was my misp... (Below threshold)
marc:

LaMedusa - that was my mispelling of "petard."

And it more than fits considering this nitwit spends so much time on the aryers issue than admits he knows little to nothing about the Annenberg Challenge.

A liar or VERY and willfully ignorant of the issue.

You are insulting ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
You are insulting marc you moron

I wasn't insulting anybody about petard. I was making a suggestion. I was laughing at you using the word "smugly". Now what about better sources to work with about iran and the aip?

Yeah, I know marc. I was l... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Yeah, I know marc. I was laughing at smugly. and I am still waiting on the iran sources so I can look at it.

need you to provid... (Below threshold)
marc:
need you to provide some sources. I could only find links to Salon and DailyKos. Where are their sources?
That was my point. Several searches using several word combos turned up nothing but Solon, the DUmmies, medai matters and the DKos kiddies and a butt load sites all linking to them.

Not a single major news outlet, its one big loonbat circle-jerk.

I wasn't insulting anybody ... (Below threshold)
jmc:

I wasn't insulting anybody about petard. I was making a suggestion. I was laughing at you using the word "smugly".

Which I used correctly. Not much to laugh at there.

Now what about better sources to work with about iran and the aip?

Tell you what. Provide some reputable links on the Annenberg Challenge and I will get you some on Joe Vogel. It is all covered in wikipedia but we know you won't accept that.

marc~This is so fu... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

marc~

This is so funny. jmc was so stuck in the wordplay thing, he didn't understand my comment. The news isn't always reliable, either, I am just surprised at how many trolls take DU, Salon, and Kos' word for it.

Not a single major news out... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Not a single major news outlet, its one big loonbat circle-jerk.

Got one for the Annenberg Challenge or were you just demonstrating your hypocrisy again?

LaMedusa.. both jmc and pea... (Below threshold)
marc:

LaMedusa.. both jmc and pea3000 need to set-up shop at Wizbang blue where they will be more appreciated.

The reach-arounds over there go for days, and days, and days.

"Which I used correctly. No... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"Which I used correctly. Not much to laugh at there."

Except you projecting "smug" on someone else. Nope, Larry has posted a sh*tload on Annenberg Challenge which I have reposted here with a reliable source. I am not doing it again, you can just comb through Wizbang. As for the Iran/AIP thing, you need to come up with something other than extreme left-wing nits.

NO jmc.... I have NO LINKS ... (Below threshold)
marc:

NO jmc.... I have NO LINKS to Annenberg Challenge that you can't find yourself.

Your game is old, childish, and STUPID.

But you apparently like looking that way.

The reach-arounds ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
The reach-arounds over there go for days, and days, and days.

Jeez, I wish they would. But, for all we know, they've already been banned for asking for a "link". :)

its one big loonba... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
its one big loonbat circle-jerk.

And, no jmc, we don't want to know about your weekends, either...

jmc - "Tell you what. P... (Below threshold)
marc:

jmc - "Tell you what. Provide some reputable links on the Annenberg Challenge and I will get you some on Joe Vogel. It is all covered in wikipedia but we know you won't accept that.

Well then there goes that petard hoisting thing again.

Your aware of the wiki entry then you also know Vogler hasn't had dog squat to do with the AIP since late 1980s, you also know the AIP has disavowed any thoughts of secession from the U.S.

Dig that hole asswipe.

I'm done with you, I have 4 blogs to maintain, you're not worth any more of my time.

You guys are so funny. You ... (Below threshold)
jmc:

You guys are so funny. You bitch and moan because I won't provide links then you won't provide them yourselves. Why the double standard. Marc, your lazy could have done a google search and found info on Vogel. Or maybe not so I did it for you.

Well Here is a link from the city of Juneau's newspaper Juneau Alaska in case you are unfamiliar with the state.

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/031408/nei_257857638.shtml/

now I have not found one reputable link for anything on the Annenberg Challenge. Now get off your lazy asses and find me something that is not in red-state or some right wing shit.

"And, no jmc, we don't want... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"And, no jmc, we don't want to know about your weekends, either..."

said the man making the homo erotic joke.

"I'm done with you, I have ... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"I'm done with you, I have 4 blogs to maintain, you're not worth any more of my time."

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. :)

Now get off your l... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Now get off your lazy asses and find me something that is not in red-state or some right wing shit.

You are a phony, and do copy people for a living. I told you to comb through Wizbang, jmc. The work has been done for you. I am done with your nonsense. I have to say, peabody and hyper, both without providing sources, look like Einstein next to you.

Well, well, well, th... (Below threshold)
Larry:


Well, well, well, the Annenberg Challenge. Now isn't that fine source of money for our favorite friends . . . tsk tsk.

I have posted excerpts from and links to the Chicago Annenberg REPORTS themselves. I have no intention of looking them up and posting them again to save some ill informed (and happy that way) left wing bomber save time so they can misread and misquote.

Here is a game we can play for those who are paid to play games on conservative blog sites;

1. How much money did Obama approve for The Reverend Jeremiah Wright?

2. How much money did Obama approve for ACORN and his buddy Wayde Rathke?

The bottom line is that when William Ayers and a couple of his buddies decided to apply for the Chicago part of the Annenberg Challenge, the Mayor of Chicago, 'ol Daley himself, dropped his own City of Chicago application.

Why imagine that sports fans. And why would Daley do that, you ask.

Simple.

Daddy's money. I also have a lot of posts on that subject as well. Look them up, they help cure ignorance.

Ok, that's smug. But dangit, I am sick and tired of the left wing paid bomb throwers trying to fight facts with talking points and theories.

Now leave us take a sniff at the smell test. See, The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was a Bill Ayers thing. It was supposed to be the final act that brought Bill the Bomber and his wife, Bernadette the killer, back into polite society. The money was also supposed to be used in certain ways, none of which was academic according to the application. Now take a deep breath through your nose and tell me that Bill Ayers didn't know the Chairman of the Project very well, namely BH Obama.

Tell me that Bill Ayers didn't have anything to do with appointing Obama to the position. Tell me that Obama had the best interest in the school kids as his mantra. None of that passes the smell test, sorry.

I am not making this up, go read for yourself. It takes about five minutes via google to find the reports.

And the bottom line was, well, after nearly 150 million dollars spent, zero results. So much for Obama's executive ability. But wait, there is more. Suppose that it was never the intention of either Bill Ayers or BH Obama to do anything FOR the kids. Perhaps the deal was to funnel money to community organizers and groups who intended to indoctrinate the kids into their political worldview. You think?

And yea, that does pass the smell test. In other words, why do anything FOR the kids, when you could do it TO them.

Nice guys those.


PS - Forget it paid trolls, if you don't post something worthwhile, I am gonna ignore you from now own. Come up with something respectable that doesn't include a lot of phony talking points if you want to get my attention.

You are a phony, and do cop... (Below threshold)
jmc:

You are a phony, and do copy people for a living. I told you to comb through Wizbang, jmc.

And you are a total hypocrite and a moron to boot. I told you to provide a reputable link from something other than a right wing source. You couldn't do it. But I am expected to provide something from a non left wing source. Typical fair, from a person who overlooks the radical associations of polticians he likes; but is all over them for ones he doesn't like.

The work has been done for you. I am done with your nonsense. I have to say, peabody and hyper, both without providing sources, look like Einstein next to you.

The work was done for you on Vogel jackass. But you expected me to do the legwork to prove my case. And yet won't do it for yours. The reason is because you have no case and you know it. Christ go hang out with your other higher school dropout buddies and complain how us liberal elites are keeping you poor boneheads down.

I told you to prov... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
I told you to provide a reputable link from something other than a right wing source.

The reliable source is linked at Wizbang, stupid. Now I am done with your nonsense. Hi, Larry! How are you? I gotta go for now. :)

Larry, I know you are not b... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Larry, I know you are not big on current events but tell you what. Don't BITCH about me providing links if your to lazy to do it. It's simple really.

"The reliable source is lin... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"The reliable source is linked at Wizbang, stupid. Now I am done with your nonsense. Hi, Larry! How are you? I gotta go for now. :)"

The reliable source on vogler was linked from wikipedia stupid. you wer to lazy to look it up.

think I understand the pro... (Below threshold)
jmc:

think I understand the problem. I was trying to figure out why it is ok for Sarah palin and her husband to pal around with ex-radicals who worked with iran to hurt the U.S. But obama is bad for working on education reform with Ayers.


The answer is simple Right-wingers have a double standard when it comes to themselves. Need proof. Well besides what I have mentioned looked at the way LaMedusa and marc, cried and complained and spoke of circle jerks till I provided them links. Then refused and cried some more when I asked for links myself.

This is typical of course. In marc and lamedusa's cases I think they are too stupid to remember the fact that they were crying about me not providing a link a few minutes ago. Now that they are asked to provide links, their mind has shifted to "look it up yourself" mode. More cognitive dissonance from total idiots.

jmcYea I did gradu... (Below threshold)
Larry:

jmc

Yea I did graduate, with a degree in Cultural Psychology. Look it up, it morphed.

Anyway, you brayed. . .

He also forget to mention that barack met Bill Ayers in 1993 some 25 years or so after Ayers was in the weather underground.

25 years trumps five.

Do a google on Ayers speech recently in Venezuela. Read it carefully. Then tell me if you would form an association of any type with Bill Ayers. Carefully study Reverend Jeremiah Wright and tell me when you would have thrown him under the bus - aftr twenty years, or in the first week.

Ayers and his wife literally got away with murder. And he did grow up enough to realize he got lucky and it was time to try another route converting the US to his vision of how we ought to be: through education.

Using education and the pulpit has a long tradition for those who seek to change society in their image. The technique was invented somewhere in the mists of time.

And most folks don't know that some of our country was founded by a group called the Pilgrims, who were actually the Marian Society. And the Marian Society tried to change England through gaining as many teaching spots and pulpits as they could. One of the kings or queens, I forget which, caught on and stopped them in their tracks.

So revolutionaries who get too old and slow to throw bombs, go into education so they can mold minds that have no defense. And so it was and is with William Ayers, bomb thrower, and now "Respected educator," and friend of a man who is getting close to being President of the United States.

marc and friend get pwned.<... (Below threshold)
Brian:

marc and friend get pwned.

"The reliable source on vog... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

"The reliable source on vogler was linked from wikipedia stupid. you wer to lazy to look it up."

I didn't ask you about Vogler, marc did. The source is not Wizbang, it's linked at Wizbang.

"said the man making the homo erotic joke."

Uh oh, projecting again.

And, of course, Brian chimes in again with the Comment of No Substance.

Larry, this is the same ol'... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Larry, this is the same ol' same ol' that i went Back and forth with marc and lamedusa about. Read through the links I provided on Joe Vogler and tell me whether you would join the Alaska independence party.

Basically I am looking from some kind of consistency out of you guys. Vogler is just as bad as Ayers and you overlook that why?

Larry, I know you ... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:
Larry, I know you are not big on current events but tell you what. Don't BITCH about me providing links if your to lazy to do it. It's simple really.

What would be even simpler is if you just stopped commenting.

Billy-the-Bomber and Bernad... (Below threshold)
twolaneflash:

Billy-the-Bomber and Bernadette-the-Mansonette tried to murder me a couple of times, sorta. I was in Russian language school in D.C., and frequently at The Capitol during the period they bombed it. The Presidio, where the west coast language school was in 1971, was bombed a couple of months later. I would train that fall in San Angelo, Texas with west coast guys who were there when the bomb went off. In 1972, I was in West Germany in the security service when friends of the Weather Underground helped murder the Israeli athletes in Munich. Obama's circles-of-haters leave no doubt in my mind what he is. Communist. Enemy of The Constitution. Subverter of elections. Conspirator against life, liberty, the pursuit of happinesss. Unfit for public office in this democracy at any level. I'll know whether my generation failed to win The Cold War on November 5th.

I noticed the name calli... (Below threshold)
MF:

I noticed the name calling comes out from the
liberals when they have nothing of substance or
they want to detract from the real issues.


I didn't ask you about Vogl... (Below threshold)
jmc:

I didn't ask you about Vogler, marc did. The source is not Wizbang, it's linked at Wizbang.

"said the man making the homo erotic joke."

Uh oh, projecting again.

And, of course, Brian chimes in again with the Comment of No Substance.

"I didn't ask you about Vog... (Below threshold)
jmc:

"I didn't ask you about Vogler, marc did. The source is not Wizbang, it's linked at Wizbang."
And yet you are to lazy to provide it.
"Uh oh, projecting again."
Said the man who keeps bringing it up :)

"And, of course, Brian chimes in again with the Comment of No Substance."

Complained the man who never posts anything of substance.

Wow you guys are amazing at... (Below threshold)
jmc:

Wow you guys are amazing at your hypocrisy.

First attack Ayers ignore Vogler.

Then ask for proof but provide none.
now someone is bitching about name calling after much name calling on your side.

Is your side to stupid to recognize when you are engaging in the bad behavior you condemn?

jmcI didn't want t... (Below threshold)
Larry:

jmc

I didn't want to give you the links AGAIN. I have provided them in posts many times. And some were addressed to YOU.

Anyway, you said:

think I understand the problem. I was trying to figure out why it is ok for Sarah palin and her husband to pal around with ex-radicals who worked with iran to hurt the U.S. But obama is bad for working on education reform with Ayers.

The AIP thing has been discredited by any and all REPUTABLE sources including the Alaska newspaper that just endorsed OBAMA. You maximum the tenuous connection between the Palins and AIP and minimised the connection between OBAMA and Ayers and Wright and Jones and Bobby Rush and ACORN and Wayde Rathke and Alinsky and the list goes on.

Oh, and the fine upstanding Obama's wife got a $200,000 raise just after Obama was elected as Senator and just before he got a ONE MILLION DOLLAR earmark to her employer. Oh yea, she was in charge of the program that pushed indigents out of her ER to some other medical program, anywhere, please, with "guess" who as the PR director trying to sell the program as "Benefiting" the displaced.

Yea, right.

See jmc, Sarah Palin is a real person, not a carefully crafted fraud fed the same lines by the same PR firm as the current Governor of Massachusettes. Oh, yea, "Guess who" is David Axelrod. Same guy.

Obama's rhetorical skill goes way back though. His fellow students on the Harvard Law Review tell how he could give a speach and opposite sides of a question would each think he agreed with their position. Page 11 jmc, read it and then find your picture right there in living and breathing color.

The simple truth is that jm... (Below threshold)
brainy435:

The simple truth is that jmc is a typical moral equivalency retard. A group that wants to use the legal system to right what it views as a wrong is only equivalent to a man who physically attacked the United States and murdered people in his twisted zealots mind.

As to jmcs fever-dream of Iranian involvement, that comes from one source, salon, who has colored their coverage to suit their agenda and "massaged" even that message.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/

From that link, they take some boisterois claims to frame Vogler as violent, but gloss over this quote: "Our goal is ultimate independence by peaceful means under a minimal government fully responsive to the people."

They also state "The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue." However,in September, they could only state that "According to the AIP, Iran had offered to sponsor Vogler's appearance." No explanation of why this point was now switched to stating that Volger sought Iranian funding from earlier just alleging Iran had offered. They also do not care to comment on whether or not that offer was accepted.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/10/alaska_secession/

Further, according to wikipedia, AIP has been mostly a limited-government party since it gained recognition in Alaska as a viable party in 1986. In fact, no office holder from the party since that time has agreed with forwarding the successionist movement. There was a ballot initiative passed around 2 years ago, but not by party leaders and it never went anywhere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Independence_Party

So nice try jmc, but just because you REALLY want something to be equivalent to the extremist views of your messiah doesn't make it so.

jmc - final post to you. I... (Below threshold)
Larry:

jmc - final post to you. In the past, I have posted to "jmc" who sometimes never replied.

Anyway:

Larry, this is the same ol' same ol' that i went Back and forth with marc and lamedusa about. Read through the links I provided on Joe Vogler and tell me whether you would join the Alaska independence party.

Nope, sure wouldn't. And your point is? See, I don't see Palin serving on a board(s) with Vogler, or having tea at his house, or for that matter doing anything except in her official capacity, welcoming his convention to Wasilla.

That's it, period.

You are going to get a lot more traction talking about McCain addressing an ACORN gathering than trying to prove Palin was an AIP wingnut.

And, for the sake of the discussion, suppose she was. . . Match that with Obama's list. But that was just for fun. She wasn't. And you can yammer on and on and on and all you will be doing is a bad immitation of Goebels.

jmc, I think your "ivy lea... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

jmc, I think your "ivy league-snob" wife is calling you.

*Laughing because jmc was outwitted by a woman he (pretended to think) was a man.*

Your ignorance and pretense are running neck and neck right now. We'll see which trait wins as you continue to bloviate about hypocrisy and "sources".

Oh, not to mention, jmc, La... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

Oh, not to mention, jmc, Larry and brainy435 blew you out of the water. Larry, by quoting you, brainy, by quoting sources from you beloved nits.

*your beloved nits.... (Below threshold)
LaMedusa:

*your beloved nits.

I forgot to mention ... (Below threshold)
Larry:


I forgot to mention the New Party, who endorsed Obama. And they brag about him here:

Look at me, I'm a link for jmc.

And for those who are real good at reading code words, you can see who those people are at the same web site.

The endorsement was NOT a welcome message. It was as the result of a contract OBAMA signed with the New Party. I am not making this up.

But hey folks, Obama is the teflon candidate. He is that way because he talks pretty and cynics like Matthews get a tingle up their leg listening to him.

That bothers me. Last time I got a tingle up my leg, I was looking at my wife.

I just had an epipha... (Below threshold)
Larry:


I just had an epiphany. Obama can settle all the stuff about Bill Ayers real easy. All he has to say is that Bill Ayers father was Thomas Ayers and you didn't run for office in Illinois unless Thomas Ayers said ok. Daddy's money.

That is probably closer to the truth than the 8 year old, the live in the neighborhood and other flimsy mutterings.

JMCThus it was that ... (Below threshold)

JMC
Thus it was that in 2001, just before the September 11th attacks, Elrod accepted an invitation to dinner with two of the onetime leaders of Weatherman-Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. At a restaurant in downtown Chicago, Elrod and his wife listened as the two former radicals, now long married, with a family of their own, apologized for the heartache and suffering Elrod endured as a result of that day. The pair made it clear that they did not believe Flanagan caused Elrod's injuries, and that they were not disavowing their militant beliefs. Still, "they were remorseful," Elrod says. "They said, 'We're sorry that things turned out this way.'" (Calls and e-mails seeking comment from Dohrn and Ayers were not returned.)

Yeah they are both unrepentant terrorist who still believe in the things they have done.
In other words sorry dude our guys did not do it, if they did were sorry but people have to die in the revolution.




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