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"The Iraq war is over. We won."

This message comes from Michael Yon who called Glen Reynolds to give him the news you probably haven't heard anywhere in the mainstream media:

"THE WAR IS OVER AND WE WON:" Michael Yon just phoned from Baghdad, and reports that things are much better than he had expected, and he had expected things to be good. "There's nothing going on. I'm with the 10th Mountain Division, and about half of the guys I'm with haven't fired their weapons on this tour and they've been here eight months. And the place we're at, South Baghdad, used to be one of the worst places in Iraq. And now there's nothing going on. I've been walking my feet off and haven't seen anything. I've been asking Iraqis, 'do you think the violence will kick up again,' but even the Iraqi journalists are sounding optimistic now and they're usually dour." There's a little bit of violence here and there, but nothing that's a threat to the general situation. Plus, not only the Iraqi Army, but even the National Police are well thought of by the populace. Training from U.S. troops has paid off, he says, in building a rapport.

He says the big problem everybody is talking about now is corruption. But hey, we have that here, too. He'll be heading to Afghanistan next week. "Afghanistan is a bad situation, but on Iraq I can't believe things have turned out so well."


Michael also says that Obama can pull some troops out of Iraq and send them into Afghanistan without any negative repercussions, thanks to President Bush's tenacity and our troops' skill and unshakable commitment. The media will do what they can to give all the credit to Obama even though he and the rest of the Democrats minus a small minority fought tooth and nail to undermine President Bush, our troops, and their efforts.

So what's the big picture? We have a democratically elected government in the Middle East, making it one less country under the control of tyrannical dictators, which is important for not only our national security but the rest of the world's too.

Bob Owens at Confederate Yankee, one of my favorite sites, writes this:

Our soldiers in Iraq have played many roles and worn many hats, but it seems that their primary role now is that of a peacekeeper, providing support to a government and a people that seem increasingly capable of handling their own affairs.

We can declare victory because President Bush wouldn't quit on his troops. If Barack Obama had his way, a triumphant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi would have had a chance to have made the same claim over the Caliphate of Iraq.


Indeed. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, however, met his 79 virgins in June of 2006 thanks to President Bush and the US and Allied Forces.


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Comments (47)

Yeah, violence might be dow... (Below threshold)
Chip:

Yeah, violence might be down but....(Insert Democrat Talking Point Here). Won't make any difference to the left.

I have faith in Obama. He'... (Below threshold)
GarandFan:

I have faith in Obama. He'll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The word 'victory' will never cross his lips. Want to bet that we'll be out of the mideast in two years, tops.

U.S. and Iraqi negotiators ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

U.S. and Iraqi negotiators have agreed on a draft of a security pact that would allow American troops to stay in Iraq for three more years. If the Iraqi Cabinet and then parliamentary approval of the security pact then the final chapter of American involvement in Iraq will have been written by Bush. If the security pact is rejected, then the U.S. will start it's pullout in January.

If Iraq goes on to become a peaceful and prosperous nation with a representative government, Bush will be credited for that accomplishment by historians never infected with BDS. If Iraq goes into the shitter, it will happen under Obama's watch. Either way, Bush can finally say Mission Accomplished.

Yup - we won, but we won in... (Below threshold)
marty arrowsmith:

Yup - we won, but we won in 2003.

I guess the premise for the war does not matter. Remember NO WMDs. I guess wars of aggression against people who didn't attack us are A-OK. Actually, we should've got the Saudis when we had the chance - after all it was they who attacked on 9-11. Remember? Oh yeah - W(tf) and cheney and rummy and wolfy, and perley told you Iraq did it and you believed it. Besides we kinda own the Saudis already.

Its all just a walk in the park, unless of course you are one of the hundreds of thousands dead or millions of refugees the war created.

Peaceful prosperous democracy - you are kidding.

You rightwingers are some sad sacks.

Now I see where the last 26% of Americans who think W(TF)is doing a heckuva job hang out.

In your world it remains:
ignorance is strength, love is hate, war is peace.

BTW - we still didn't catch bin laden "dead or alive" yet. Remember - he was the murderer - not Joe Akbar in Iraq.

Rock on Losers!!!!

I suppose if Michael says "... (Below threshold)
James:

I suppose if Michael says "We've won" then victory it is? So no more violence of any kind, that is, Allied Troops can be pulled out, without fear of a civil war, Shias and Sunnis will live in harmony and embrace the democratic process?

I dont know what planet you are from, but I would suggest that you get a grip on yourself, and engage your brain before posting on the war again.

I know that you have lost a relative overthere as I have done also. It is something that I follow, But I will be damned if I hear first from a blogger who essentially writes soporific codswollop on Mummyness, that "we've won" How will you explain to the family of the next Allied victim, their son's death, given that the war is over?

Thing are definitely getting better, but ask any European country with experience of fighting a terrorist organisation as to how they ended the violence, and they will tell you that victory is not achieved by military means alone. We are winning the military campaign, but as long as there is a Muslim fundamentalist who enbraces death over life and is willing to strap a couple of pounds of explosive to his body; the war is far from won.

Dont believe everything you read, especially from a blogger, they usually put their OWN SPIN on it!

If Michael told you that XXXt was custard, would you eat it? Sadly, I think you probably would.

The reason that I take particular exception to this piece is because I have a very close relative about to leave for Iraq; tell his family, not to worry because "we've won".

As for the MSM not reporting this breaking news is because they know it not to be the case. Stick to writing about babies, mummies, diapers and their content, war reporting is not your bag.

arrowsmith you're a f*cking... (Below threshold)
DoninFla:

arrowsmith you're a f*cking idiot (sorry to slam idiots like that)...pickup your bong, take another hit and leave blogging to the big boys...Your mom's calling. Go up and clean your room like she said.

James, Michael Yon isn't 'j... (Below threshold)
Tim:

James, Michael Yon isn't 'just some blogger'. He's actually over there. With the troops. Where the 'reporters' should be but aren't. Why don't you give us your first-hand experience of how things are going over there?

And may I add, that were th... (Below threshold)
James:

And may I add, that were the war to be tomorrow, literally, if such a thing was at all possible, it would have nothing to do with Obama, as he is not in office yet.

And where do the 79 virgins come from. 72 seems to be the more often quoted figure, or is this just another case of poetic license as in, "we've won"

Kim, your gas, you should be on a stage, the next stage out of here........................

I am fully aware of who Mic... (Below threshold)
James:

I am fully aware of who Michael Yon is, and I am fully aware of his reporting.

As to where I get my news from, firstly I have several friends over there, so I hear it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Michael Yon maybe embedded with the troops, but, as with any reporter, blogger etc, they will have their bias. Micahel has been upbeat since ever since he arrived, victory has always been around the corner for him. Ask any soldier, rank or file who's overthere, for a better perspective. The government, and government media friendly hacks will have you believe that lifes a beach. Maybe, just maybe news is blacked out for convenience sake because somebody doesn't want every attack plastered over the press and the tv networks. No news is good news.

Prior to 9/11, most Americans would have struggled with International news as it would have little or no bearing on their everyday lives. Post 9/11, they are still struggling, with the exception of the righteous who believe that the GWOT is a mission from God. The irony of it all!

Yes, the Iraq war was expen... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Yes, the Iraq war was expensive in terms of lives and money as well as politically. However, any realistic analysis of what the world would be like had Bush not removed Saddam and his sadistic sons from power shows that the Iraq war was a bargain in comparison to what the world would be facing now from a rearmed Saddam free to pursue his vendetta against the U.S. and it's allies in the first gulf war.

Those who claim Iraq was a mistake are reduced to pretending Saddam was either benign or at least powerless, but that flies in the face of everything known about the butcher of Baghdad.

"I conclude that plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely, 'by evidence satisfactory to the court' that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al Qaeda." U.S. District Court Judge Harold Baer, Jr. (appointed by Clinton)
MacLorryYou are fr... (Below threshold)
James:

MacLorry

You are free to choose to believe whatever you like, as is your perogative. But the issue being discussed here is the declaration that "we've won" as declared by Michael Yon, not the validity of the war itself, which is another unGodly can of worms!

JamesYou just keep... (Below threshold)
MichaelC:

James

You just keep digging that hole you are in deeper and deeper every time you grab the keyboard. Your ignorance is amazing, truly it is.

You show up here out of no where and start lecturing us as though we gave a $hit about your views. Your childish grasp of world events is embarrassing to witness, but we've seen it before and we'll see it again for at this website, unlike it's lefty counterparts, scum like you are not instantly banned when they speak their piece.

When you are done taking your crap in public, would you just leave, go back to whatever hole you crawled out of and leave your betters to discuss things that are clearly over your head.

James,You... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

James,

You are free to choose to believe whatever you like, as is your perogative. But the issue being discussed here is the declaration that "we've won" as declared by Michael Yon, not the validity of the war itself, which is another unGodly can of worms!

You had your chance to suggest limiting the scope of the comments in response to post #4. Having not done so in that case limits your credibility in calling for such limits now.

MichaelCDitto. I h... (Below threshold)
James:

MichaelC

Ditto. I have been visiting this site since '04 and I cannot say that I am overly familiar with your offerings, except for very recently.

As to my grasp of world events, I can assure you of two things, firstly, I know more than you ever will and secondly, your sycophantic offerings are beyond embarressing, so I suggest that you wind your neck in.

My guess is that like Governor Palin, you are not very well travelled and know very little as to what is going in the world with the exception of what you read on the net, and have probably only taken an interst in world events since September 11th 2001.

Again, I say, wind your neck in before you lose your head.

McLorryYou are pro... (Below threshold)
James:

McLorry

You are probably correct but I took you to task because you are just regurgatating the party line.

Dewey Wins!!!!... (Below threshold)
epador:

Dewey Wins!!!!

James,You... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

James,

You are probably correct but I took you to task because you are just regurgatating the party line.

That supposes you see the contents of post #4 as original. Either that, or you're blind to ignorant and biased ranting if it's against Bush. BDS can do the.

Actually, what I wrote is not party line, but I believe it should be. Future historians not infected with BDS will look at the facts of who Saddam was and the post 9/11 situation the U.S. was in and they will assign those who opposed removing Saddam to the same class of fools who opposed removing Hitler while that was a relatively easy task.

James, if you had even the ... (Below threshold)
Tim:

James, if you had even the first clue you would have known that Michael Yon's earliest postings from Iraq stated that we were losing the war. I'd expect you to know that since apparently you and Joe Biden are assuredly much more intelligent than us.

JamesYour idiocy m... (Below threshold)
RFA:

James

Your idiocy makes me want to barf. I have a son who has pulled 3 tours in that shit hole and has volunteered to return. He says we have won and I trust him far more than the dirtbags who have reported from the safety of their hotel rooms using the stringers who have been PROVEN liars.

Go pack sand you fool.

Micahel has been upbe... (Below threshold)

Micahel has been upbeat since ever since he arrived, victory has always been around the corner for him.


That's not the Michael Yon I have been reading.

Pre surge he stated we were involved in a civil war with no good options available. I'll try to find a link.

Wow! James, that is one fin... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Wow! James, that is one fine imitation of a pretentious Lefty gasbag you got goin' on here. Bravo!

Here's a sober account from... (Below threshold)

Here's a sober account from Michael Yon that certainly doesn't expect "victory around the corner".:

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/gods-will.htm

and here's another:

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/prelude.htm

I'm left to conclude, James, that you are not fully aware of who Michael Yon is, nor do you read what he writes.

Follow those links I provided and read everything he has written.

What a joke you posters are... (Below threshold)
Allen:

What a joke you posters are. Iraq is not safe for anyone, especially if you are an American. But the Iraq's want us out of there, sooner the better, so why not leave. Hell, Bush posed under the banner "Mission Accomplished."

WHAT, Bush lied, no don't say that, he was confused, that's all. The Iraq's have their own gov't now, they really don't need us anymore, so they say.

So why not leave, and let them have their civil war some people think they will have. Bush got rid of Sadam, so who gives a damn what happens over there?

A lot of "Yellow Elephants" sure love to keep us there, WHY? It's all for oil, always has been, always will be.

Allen,We are leavi... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Allen,

We are leaving, but in a way that doesn't give al Qaeda nor Iran a big opening to come in and turn the place into a terrorist shit hole.

A lot of "Yellow Elephants" sure love to keep us there, WHY? It's all for oil, always has been, always will be.

The reason we have to be involved in the middle east is because of democrat lead drilling bans. When oil is cheap democrats tell us there's no need to drill off shore, in ANWR, and not even in Utah. When oil is expensive they tell us it will take ten years to produce any domestic oil. When we have to go to war to defend the oil supply the dumb shits come out of the woodwork making noise about no blood for oil. Anyone who uses energy derived from oil has already decided they are fine with the environmental impact of drilling and burning oil. They just don't want it in their backyard. It's this NIMBYism that's responsible for the need to go to war for oil.

The world according to Alle... (Below threshold)

The world according to Allen:

A lot of "Yellow Elephants" sure love to keep us there, WHY? It's all for oil, always has been, always will be.


I submit that Allen's 9:19 comment is Exhibit A as the reason why the US didn't offer Saddam $500,000,000,000.00 for the oil. I think Saddam, Usay, and Huday would look favorably on that offer just now.

If the war was just about oil the US would have just purchased it. Such international energy transactions are not uncommon. However there was something else at work, Allen. Power. Terrorist control of that oil.

Bush has perservered and has been vindicated in this widely unpopular war.

Hell, if it was all about o... (Below threshold)
Tim:

Hell, if it was all about oil we would have invaded Saudi Arabia. I've been there - we can take 'em.

James,Your ... (Below threshold)
dr lava:


James,

Your points are well taken but man, you are arguing with simpletons here. I mean come on these people think Bush was a great leader, Palin would have made a great VP and we have won in Iraq.

This site is a scary place to visit to witness appalling ignorance first hand but I wouldn't waste much time trying to engage these people in discussions of reality.

The concept of the failure of Bush policy and ineptitude now feeding the Talibans incursion into Pakistan because of the Iraq war is way above the grasp of the Fox News fueled idiocracy here at Wizbang.

Don't waste more than 90 seconds here.

lava saysDon... (Below threshold)

lava says

Don't waste more than 90 seconds here.

You make this too easy, lava.

I have personally asked you and Adrianne Browne to stay around and debate your position. Rare is the occassion you have stayed here to defend your opinion....hence your comments always garner the Seagull Posting award. You fly over, drop your "opinion" and fly on.

When you have graduated from the pre adolescent stage of debate please come back. Until then we will ignore your tantrums as you stomp into the site, shout an opinion and then stomp out.


Let's hope for peace in the... (Below threshold)
coldwarkid:

Let's hope for peace in the Middle East. I have no doubt that the liberal illuminati will christen Obama Top Peacemaking Kahuna, and he will, in a pseudo-humble voice, mention Bush offhandedly in a way that fulfills convention but lets everybody know that he, Obama, wrought this miracle.

I hope Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State, if for nothing else than to be a pain in the be-hind to our new President-Elect, and also, because let's not forget - she voted to invade.

I see a bright future for K... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

I see a bright future for Kim in the Republican Party. Keep up the good work!

Get over it, guys. You may... (Below threshold)

Get over it, guys. You may have won the election, but we won the war despite your carping, subversion and your precious media.

Certainly we have won; ever... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Certainly we have won; everyone except the most partisan, jaded, delusional among us knows that.

We were never losing as long as we were there--we had by far the greater skill, tech, strategy, weapons--sticking to the task as Bush did was sure to win the day, and it has.

I often came to this blog and saw the rant from some of these Lefties slobbering all over their NY Times daily car bomb updates. Now that there aren't any, and the country is greatly paicified, and the Iraqi's in charge of there own security, the Press, and these Lefty retards, have gotten awfully quiet.

Yet, they'd never acknowledge their "beloved" country carried the day, and liberated 25 million fellow human beings. Welcome to the gutless, self-loathing, Bush-hating, nattering nabob slobs.

You lost, we won. Freedom won. The Iraqis won.

Oyster, exactly!! I was ty... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Oyster, exactly!! I was typing whilst you were.

OysterWho's we, wh... (Below threshold)
James:

Oyster

Who's we, when you say "we have won the war" Tell me, what exactly was your contribution?

As fas as I am concerned, the war is still ongoing. I have yet to hear of a formal ceasefire agreed by any of the insurgents, let alone all of them.

Victory to me, means a complete cessation of violence, a complete end to hostilities. Perhaps I have missed something, but as far as I am aware that has not happened yet. I think there will be many more skirmishes before anyone can come close to claiming victory in Iraq. As long as there is a Western presence in Iraq, there will always be an insurgency.

Ignorance is bliss, and no peoples are more ignorant than Americans when it comes to events going on outside their own country. It amazes me how a little knowledge and and a bit of jingoistic posturung turns small town pundits into experts on world events.

The biggest reason for the ... (Below threshold)

The biggest reason for the decline in violence in Iraq continues to be that the U.S. is paying over 80,000 militia members a monthly salary not to be terrorists and blow things up or kill Shiites, and instead kill suspected Al Qaeda members. But these same militia members have threatened to return to violence when the U.S. considered dropping the program due to the high cost and the Shiite dominated government has no interest in continuing it either.

The plan would be similar to the U.S. government paying criminals not to be criminals. It might reduce crime somewhat. But is it really a good idea?

James,As ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

James,

As fas as I am concerned, the war is still ongoing. I have yet to hear of a formal ceasefire agreed by any of the insurgents, let alone all of them.

News flash! We're not fighting a conventional war. You know, where one nation or group of nations fights another nation or group of nations. You can't use the rules of conventional war when fighting terrorists any more than you can uses the tactics of conventional war. Where you been hiding for the last 7 years?

Victory to me, means a complete cessation of violence, a complete end to hostilities.

We don't have those conditions in many major U.S. cities. No doubt you want to promote an impossible definition so that you can continue to maintain the delusion that we could never win in Iraq. Sorry, but Bush defined what winning in Iraq would mean and that's the only definition that matters.

Ignorance is bliss, and no peoples are more ignorant than Americans when it comes to events going on outside their own country. It amazes me how a little knowledge and and a bit of jingoistic posturung turns small town pundits into experts on world events.

Of course you have no way of knowing anything about the people commenting on these pages beyond what they tell you. A common symptom of progressive liberalism is the delusion that those who don't agree with the victim are less intelligent, less knowledgeable, and less astute than themselves. It never occurs to those so afflicted that it's the other way around.

PaulHow can you st... (Below threshold)
James:

Paul

How can you state such a thing? DOnt you know that you will suffer the wrath of the Wizbang Bloggeratti for such blasphemy, after all anyone who fails to follow the official party line is either a libtard or a leftie, or worse anti Anti American.

Paul,The ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Paul,

The biggest reason for the decline in violence in Iraq continues to be that the U.S. is paying over 80,000 militia members a monthly salary not to be terrorists and blow things up or kill Shiites, and instead kill suspected Al Qaeda members.

The part you left out is that there's very high unemployment in Iraq. They don't have the social safety net like we do in the U.S. and when the men in a family don't have jobs the wife and kids don't eat. Of course the reason there were so few jobs is because of the actions of Al Qaeda in preventing stability and a return to what passes for an economy in Iraq. Al Qaeda knew it had to pay such men to keep them from turning on the insurgents. So along comes the U.S. and pays these men to attack the insurgents, which stabilizes the area and will eventually allow for return to a functioning economy.

The plan would be similar to the U.S. government paying criminals not to be criminals. It might reduce crime somewhat. But is it really a good idea?

The closest we get to such a situation is during a natural disaster, and the government does give people money and even housing so that they can get by until the area recovers economically. That seems like a good idea to me.

But these same militia members have threatened to return to violence when the U.S. considered dropping the program due to the high cost and the Shiite dominated government has no interest in continuing it either.

The key to ending such payments is restoring order and a functioning economy to Iraq. Until that time either the U.S. and more and more so the Iraqi government must make sure people have a means to survive, be it a job or be it a handout. Think of it as disaster recovery relief.

The liberal wet dream is th... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

The liberal wet dream is that there are groups ready to jump in to a civil war at the drop of a hat.

Ain't gonna happen. There's no will for it outside rabid Al Quaeda (and Bush haters here, of course).


As we've seen from internal A.Q. communication, they believe they've essentially lost the war.

Now, if we could only get the vicious left know-nothings to acknowledge the same . . .

I'd rather stroll streets in Baghdad than those in Detroit, LA, Washington, southside Chi-town, etc.

When the hostilities cease in these cities, I'll consider The War on Poverty over; in the meantime, hold onto your wallets b/c The One wants to wage further war in those hell holes.

Oh, the humanity!

By the way, haven't we gott... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

By the way, haven't we gotten a better return on our investment in the war on terror, than in the war on poverty?

Pacified Iraq/won there, prevented another terror attack in US since 2001.

Huh?????

James, "we" is all of us. ... (Below threshold)

James, "we" is all of us. Even those who didn't want us to persevere.

Why I must justify myself to you is not only insulting, but smacks of an implication that I may not have done enough to satisfy your criteria; just as your criteria for a claim that this front of the war has been won must consist of a complete cessation of any activity that can be construed as a loss.

But if you must know, my contribution was in my unswerving vocal support of the mission our military men and women undertook. It was in the letters I wrote to perfect strangers overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan expressing gratitude for their efforts and sacrifices and assuring them that their work would not be in vain as long as I still drew breath. It was in the goods I contributed to make their lives a little more pleasurable through organizations like Soldier's Angels.

I've never fought in a war, but I have many family members who have fought (and some who have died) for those other than themselves and they have all told me that while not all can take an active role, their support can be expressed in many ways and it's more appreciated than one can know.

"Victory to me, means a complete cessation of violence, a complete end to hostilities."

Your world of absolutes will yield you a lifetime of dissatisfaction every time a large or difficult task is undertaken. Or like some, you will declare it too hard to even begin.

MitchellI have rea... (Below threshold)
James:

Mitchell

I have read some BS in my time but yours takes the biscuit. I wager that you would last considerably longer on any American street that you would ony any street in Baghdad.

But if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is, you can send me a postcard from Baghdad.

Again, you are typical of someone who has a little knowledge, yet is blinded to the reality of the situation by accepting as verbatim, the government line.

Fox News could tell you that black is white and white is black, and you would think it would be your patriotic duty to accept this as fact. In the animal kingdom you would either be a sheep or a lemming as you are incapable of original thought.

Your world of absolut... (Below threshold)

Your world of absolutes will yield you a lifetime of dissatisfaction every time a large or difficult task is undertaken. Or like some, you will declare it too hard to even begin.

Brilliantly said Oyster.

I'll only add that when a person's argument is reduced to:"I'm smarter than you" and "I'm more well travelled than you" then we know we are dealing with an intellect more dazzled by the Style section of the Washington Post than by real critical thinking.

Well, of course The War Is ... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

Well, of course The War Is Over And We Won®. That's because The Surge® worked. If you remember, the very minute The Surge® was announced Republicans said it would work and I guess it did. It seems Republicans were correct about The Surge® and Democrats were (as usual when it comes to anything involving the military) wrong because if The Surge® hadn't worked the announcement that The War Is Over And We Won® wouldn't have been made in mid-November before the end of The Bush Administration.

Thank goodness for George W. Bush because without his wise leadership then we probably wouldn't have had The Surge® and The War Is Over And We Won® headlines to boost our morale.

To recap:

There was the announcement of The Surge®
followed immediately by The Surge is Working®
and just in time for the end of The Bush Administration we have
The War Is Over And We Won®

Yeah, James, whatever.... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

Yeah, James, whatever.

You're sour puss couldn't persuade my dog to take a piss. Your "arguments" here are as effective.

Oh, yes, I'll have to check in with Fox News and get back to you later on your sizzling insights on Iraq.

Dumbass, you don't even realize we won! Maybe your NY Times has dumbed you down too much. Get a life, chump.

"THE WAR IS OVER AND WE ... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

"THE WAR IS OVER AND WE WON:"


This will not show up in the MSM until late January or early February. Then it will be presented as Obama's aura causing it to happen, in spite of George Bush. So credit for the war's conclusion and victory can be gien to Obama.

Victory to me, means a c... (Below threshold)
drjohn:

Victory to me, means a complete cessation of violence, a complete end to hostilities.

Whoa.

There are wars ongoing in NY, LA, Detroit!

No one really gives a damn what anything means to you, cupcake. Things are what they are in spite of you!




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